phf: the problem is not diff or diff format, the problem is that vdiff does a naive grep for a prefix and breaks a perfectly valid traditional patch
mircea_popescu: nah. keep the current death word (---) ; replace all conflicts in raw input to ===.
asciilifeform: ( instead it can only eat ones that dun contain '---' and '+++' and possibly other boojums )
asciilifeform: i'm all ears, phf . but my current understanding is that the problem is in that vdiff cannot eat arbitrary 7bitclean ascii files.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-11 20:15 asciilifeform: and haha, there are TWO +++ lines !
a111: Logged on 2017-01-05 00:43 asciilifeform: incidentally you will blow up on the +++ mine if you try and diff a vdiff.
phf: asciilifeform: you're misrepresenting the problem
a111: Logged on 2017-12-06 22:07 trinque: ah so the vdiff script wrapping diff probably did that?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-06#1747657 << this wouldn't fix the problem, only move it. thinkaboutit. inband signalling sux.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-06 22:05 phf: if you just run a diff -uNr on the two readmes, the resultant patch works. if you run a diff on the resulting patch and the vpatch in the tar, then you can see that there's something wrong with the vpatch specifically
trinque: ah so the vdiff script wrapping diff probably did that?
phf: ah, so what's actually broken in this particular case, is the original v implementation
phf: if you just run a diff -uNr on the two readmes, the resultant patch works. if you run a diff on the resulting patch and the vpatch in the tar, then you can see that there's something wrong with the vpatch specifically
mircea_popescu: i suppose the third alternative is to actually implement a proper diff as part of vtron
BingoBoingo: trinque: Their move to clang as default compiler makes pain
trinque: a read of the manfile of linux patch suggests *massive* fuckery to allow idjits to pull patches out of other text, email, newsgroups, etc
mircea_popescu: in that there's no reason to have them, and their presence is in itself sign of babbage's braindamage, much like say a canister for light, or a faucet for patience.
mircea_popescu: alternately, of course... "no clearsigned material within patches". this may even be a right thing independently of the actual bug.
BingoBoingo recalls diff being an issue, forgets the context
mircea_popescu: lol check it out, diana got split with the bots.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i recall a similar boojum in my 1st attempt at the FG release, that time it was a '+++' inside a uuencoded blob << lol, ok i see the problem too. you're right, this similar thing happened before.
asciilifeform: some texts cannot be (!) vdiffed, for so long as we use unix diff; these appearently include gpg sigs
asciilifeform: i recall a similar boojum in my 1st attempt at the FG release, that time it was a '+++' inside a uuencoded blob
asciilifeform: ( observe that the sha512 sums of the readme in 'a' and 'b' match the ones given in the vpatch. but unix patch cannot actually make the patch happen. )
asciilifeform: the sad part is that i have nfi how to cure this , it is a consequence of using unix diff ( with in-band signal ) to begin with.
asciilifeform: i will not spoil the surprise , folx who look in the tarball will see what the caltrop was.
asciilifeform: there was no mistake in asciilifeform's procedure for baking the item. second_cut is in fact a patch, not a genesis, asciilifeform spoke hastily. there is also no bug in mod6's vtron, or in asciilifeform's. diana_coman did not make a mistake.
mircea_popescu: on a long enough timeframe, there's going to exist a vtron in ~any language anyway, i expect.
mircea_popescu: i'm not going to pick a wife for you, "here, THIS is the woman you should be comfortable with". pick your own. languages idem.
mod6: It /is/ a bit worrysome that I believe that I'm the only person who knows how it works. And since it's the only version in existence that encompasses all of the rules arbitrated in our chamber, that a new version that is easier to understand is warranted.
mircea_popescu: original mod6 perl vtron was important prototype in the early life of v, made all sorts of latter things possible. exactly like original bitcoin. nobody said you have to marry it now though ; or divorce it for that matter.
mircea_popescu: mod6 it's not a crime to have a perl vtron. however, if you plan as your own strategy to move away from perl and you're judging it more of a liability than anything, then by all means, eschew.
mod6: because what i don't want to do is have a perl genesis, then some vpatch that deletes everything and inflates a bunch of ada stuffs. prolly be better to start in the lang you expect to say within for the lifetime of the application.
mod6: but furthermore, i tend to agree. if i thought that my V would stay in perl forever, i'd probably already have created the genesis. however, i'd like to see if I can get the Ada version off the ground.
mod6: <+trinque> genesis doesn't have to mean perfect. <+trinque> nobody's going to come for you with pitchforks << no one expects a spanish something or other either...
asciilifeform: this is not the 1st time i plugged a finger into 220v. the breaker, i will however point out -- worked
mod6: never hurts to have someone measure for the n'th time for you before you cut, however.
mod6: Additionally, if someone in the republic wishes to create a vpatch/genesis and have a second pair of eyes look it over, by all means, send it to me.
mod6: I should have examined/tested your mpi vpatches, alf. I'll continue to try to be a second pair of eyes, reading them. There's no substitute for reading. For those following along, take note.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-05 17:47 asciilifeform: ( lessee if i properly ate & shat, 'i do not consider myself a programmer, for i have another craft. let's say i am an amateur programmer. and yet though i am an amateur, i find myself having written tens of thou. of loc in this-here life. and at least a min of 10k loc for web. but wanna hear sumthing ? never have i created a security hole in any. never. do you suppose i simply had good luck ? possibly luck. or possibly i wrote the c
mircea_popescu: observe that after bitching about the quality of work in empire, along the lines of "everything works for as long as you don't use it", our pile of stuff exhibits the same exact property.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at any rate, mod6 is right , i'ma have to regrind the 2nd patch. and also stuck , deservedly, with the chore of demonstrating that the payloads are unaltered.
asciilifeform: the bigger problem is that nobody noticed.
mircea_popescu: the larger problem is that to arrive to this conclusion, you first bitched at everyone else.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's the smaller problem.
asciilifeform: but a genesis . all of the antecedents are 'false'
asciilifeform: the second_cut on my www -- is not a proper patch at all
asciilifeform: phf how the hell did this get eaten by your vtron
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> what means 'finished', it's a spoil of war artifact. << that's entirely not related to the discussion.
asciilifeform: how come nobody bothered to look at second_cut with naked eye ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, mk, so no need for the tar I gather since you can easily reproduce it anyway
asciilifeform: ( the two README are bitwise-identical )
asciilifeform: ( patches themselves are never hashed , aside from by gpg when verifying sig )
asciilifeform: mod6: in this case asciilifeform is quite puzzled why it appears to need a regrind; none of the file hashes should have changed
mod6: then we have to regrind stuff.
mod6: then it gets re-generated
mod6: everytime we have this problem (note it's not the first) where we have someones vpatch with garbage in it....
asciilifeform: either diana_coman's or mod6's barfamatic set
mod6: it can't check the expected sha of a patch BEFORE its DONE patching.
trinque: will at some point release vpatches with sane method names. but thing works, and I'm not going to obscure history because I knew less in the past.
mod6: I had started a new V in Ada, had to stick it in the drawer for a while. Not getting to exactly where I wanted to go (easy to read, fits in head, no perl/perlisms) with it at this time.
mod6: Despite 2 years of development, we still arn't there yet.
asciilifeform: ( and fwiw phf pressed and built the demo year+ ago )
mircea_popescu admires how the "finished" mpi managed to take a whole day of 3 people's time and shakes his head displeasedly.
asciilifeform: and so is the rest of it!
asciilifeform: just as they ought to be
asciilifeform: and they are bitwise identical
asciilifeform: and diffed the READMEs
asciilifeform: whereas i just now 'pressed' the old and the new genesis with plain old patch -p1 < old and patch -p1 < new
diana_coman: is there now a problem with second_cut?
diana_coman: so then : I try to press and I get...that
diana_coman: asciilifeform, there is something I don't understand: shouldn't I be able to press the second cut now with the new genesis present?
asciilifeform: ( i.e. the text in 'UPDATE #1' )
asciilifeform: it does not appear in either the original genesis, nor the regrind, see for yourself.
asciilifeform: considering that i made the new genesis by pressing and re-vdiffing, there should be no differences aside from the timestamp cut.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, here it seems to barf on the ...README file?
asciilifeform: mod6: show me the eggog ?
mod6: now, on the other hand, yeah, i saw the second_cut vpatch link removed from loper... but I went ahead and updated my sandbox to have alf's latest & greatest mpi-genesis.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, did you take out the second_cut patch link from the updated http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533 ? or am I just not seeing it/not getting something?
diana_coman: I can confirm that the new genesis & the old second_cut vpatch are now at least recognised by mod6's v
mod6: alright, im about to check your new ones here. i can confirm that the original 'mpi-genesis.vpatch' (f254bedf1e3241eb9de17232b630a0614f1cc54ff9c5407d87d79174e211833bcfc0135c89b4abcab2446acd93137a8e1b0798704ad7e4d498cc52c836c82c2b) gets dropped on the floor because of the addtional timestamps.
asciilifeform: ( a working vtron will immediately barf if encountering a file mismatching the claimed hash )
asciilifeform: the issue is as fixed as it gets. i posted the grep item as example of how to verify, without even a vtron, that nothing has been slipped in from under the table.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mpi/mpi-genesis.vpatch http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mpi/mpi-genesis.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig for the l0gz.
asciilifeform: ( one is, if it isn't clear, the 2015 sad genesis; the other -- the fixed, in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-06#1747474 . )
asciilifeform: let me also demonstrate for the record:
a111: Logged on 2017-12-06 19:48 asciilifeform: having to comb l0gz to find these, is becoming painful. any chance of deedbot learning to eat vpatches+sigs, trinque ?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-06#1747462 << don't want to step on phf's toes here; he's operating the logger and v-patch viewer
asciilifeform: afaik i dun have any other unfixed vpatches.
asciilifeform: ( pretty sure asciilifeform is not the only one who has committed this sin. )
asciilifeform: i recommend other folx to look at their vdiff, and see that it does not suffer from timestampism.
asciilifeform: clean ( in terms of not actually having any effect on pressed hashes and the descendant patch 'second cut' ) fix.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform phf pluriously said he's doing it by hand for now ; i see no problem with this. correct procedure would thereby be to ping him with items
asciilifeform: traditionally deedbot is the one who eats signed matter
mircea_popescu: atm there's bot, lam-par (terrible name), fg, mpi and ffa.
asciilifeform: having to comb l0gz to find these, is becoming painful. any chance of deedbot learning to eat vpatches+sigs, trinque ?
asciilifeform: which immediately took me to the culprit
asciilifeform: mod6's is actually correct, though i'd prefer it barf loudly and with pomp, rather than silently.
mircea_popescu: aite then.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the crapola was formally abolished in v proper.
mircea_popescu: so then why is it on eg phf's site
asciilifeform: it doesn't press because vtron chokes on the timestamps.
asciilifeform: they won't diverge though
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just as soon as someone puts a patch on top of it, the trees will diverge and then phf can exclude the legacy one or w/e it is he does to them
asciilifeform: fwiw the secondcut requires no change
asciilifeform: hey mircea_popescu do you wanna make the call ?
asciilifeform: i can sign a vpatch of ~the genesis~ per se
asciilifeform: who wants to recommend The Right Thing for an item like this ?
asciilifeform: the secondcut was proper.
asciilifeform: the genesis, that is
asciilifeform: looks like i found the boojum
asciilifeform: from the genesis tar
asciilifeform: i think diana_coman has the actual vpatch
asciilifeform: ( at the time i was not yet ready to say properly fuckyou to my heathen readers, who had nfi what is v and did not want to )
mod6: where is the de-facto mpi tarball?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-06 14:10 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746620 << pretty sure i "accidentally"-ed a hundy or so at some point, look carefully through the couch cushions.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-06#1747237 << I saw, first reaction was "AH SHIT, WHY IS THE BALANCE OFF"
phf: asciilifeform: something like that. my btcbase vpatch grepper is dumb (it's my own eyes, but not the brain) and it's mostly just looking for things that look like a vpatch/vdiff. i definitely didn't unpack the first post tgz
asciilifeform: or, to be absolutely pedantically correct, it was posted when the article first written, whereas 'second cut' was added later.
asciilifeform: it is in the tarball
asciilifeform: genesis was posted from the day my article was written, phf
phf: asciilifeform: i had issues specifically with an older, genesis-less version. my system doesn't require antecedents to be there, but for some reason when there's only one, antecedent-less patch it gives me a 404. i've not actually investigated, since you produced a genesis since
asciilifeform: now i recall also that phf had some trouble at first eating the thing, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-15#1739113 and elsewhere. but i can't seem to find in the log whether he ever said what the problem was, and how fixed.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: post plaintext one, possibly ben_vulpes or mod6 or someone else, will notice what is the cause before i do
asciilifeform: diana_coman: do me a favour, tar up the entire thing
diana_coman: asciilifeform, v99 (taken from here: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000160.html ) complains that "No roots found!" -> what am I missing?
diana_coman: myeah, I had done the renaming
asciilifeform: this happens only in mod6's vtron, the bug is replicated by asciilifeform just now ( however yet unexplained. )
asciilifeform: otoh the flow,
asciilifeform: and neither does
asciilifeform: silently ignoring bad input by-default can be permissible, but to do it ~always~ is not The Right Thing , gotta give something to debug with.
asciilifeform: ( but otherwise conformant )
asciilifeform: i redownloaded own item just now, and verified the sig successfully
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, nope, I just downloaded it again today so it's the new one
asciilifeform: diana_coman: then can rule out bad pubk
mircea_popescu: had alt paths there
diana_coman: ok, let me try with yours too then, can't hurt
diana_coman: v f shows only the genesis
diana_coman: but it seems to think there are no descendants on it (so v d mpi-genesis.vpatch returns empty)
diana_coman: ftr it finds the genesis patch fine
diana_coman: mod6 or asciilifeform, can you help? I'm trying to press asciilifeform's second patch for sane-mpi and V complains that it can't find the vpatch file although it is there (and I checked the sig too and it's all fine); I'm running your V, version thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz.mod6 ; I have the following folder structure: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1ZwgW/?raw=true; Here's the error when I run v press verbose . mpi_second_cut.vpa
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/06/the-midwestern-rube-arrives-in-uruguay/ << Bingo Blog - The Midwestern Rube Arrives In Uruguay
mircea_popescu: ie, isn't a port from system with kbd-and-mouse, but actually designed / thought into the terms of a tapdevice.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, in re http://trilema.com/2017/what-are-you-being-distracted-from/#comment-123640 : Party of Heroes prolly best one of the entire whole lot.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform only gets ear pop in the subway.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo incidentally, i often get ear popping IN THE CAR, getting down from fortress mp to civilisation.
BingoBoingo: then Republic of Texas to Panama was napping while descent started, damage done
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so did you get nam over with by your own self or was there a sidekick ?
mircea_popescu: maybe they were doing it discreetely.
BingoBoingo: No, none of them did.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you're supposed to suck aircock the whole way, didn't the stewardess tell you ?
mircea_popescu: by the time you crashland you're more or less CNCd into a ball already. just like an egg that was tumbled with rocks.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> but yes, airflight ain't all it's cracked up to be. only seems a big deal before ape invents airplane. << Only really big deal besides boredom and comms blackout is barotraumo to the ears
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I will save that for the post when I actually open the networking equipment. Right now gotta calibrate my ears to this accent
BingoBoingo: I packed two. Baking a first blog post. Got few pictures en route because it turns out airports and planes are boring. Also clouds most of the flights.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, can add picture of inspection note to the rest of "local flora&fauna" pics
BingoBoingo made a quick walk around the neighborhood, has to reorient to sun's new location as opposed to ye familiar old compas
BingoBoingo: Well, probably investigating them. Switch is still new in box unconfigured, server hasn't been more than assembled
a111: Logged on 2017-12-06 13:21 BingoBoingo: TSA did open up bag with the server and network switch helpfully leaving note.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-06#1747234 << loller i guess you're throwing those out then ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-06 12:54 RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu I believe 2 or 3 ladies will be available to interview by this weekend. please standby. I'll just point them to the great hall [here] unless you want them elsewhere
mircea_popescu: lobbes apparently there was problem.
asciilifeform: in other 'let's steal trilema article and publish with flipped sign bit', https://archive.is/ECfmb
a111: Logged on 2017-12-05 15:21 trinque: to date, deedbot made like 0.0002, and so what? it'll make more in the future, and it'll buy more with what it made idem
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746620 << pretty sure i "accidentally"-ed a hundy or so at some point, look carefully through the couch cushions.
BingoBoingo: TSA did open up bag with the server and network switch helpfully leaving note.
BingoBoingo: Mega mission of the day is calibrating the ear to this accent and recovering from mega ear pressure confusion
BingoBoingo: Have seen litle nature so far. Lightening the load at coworking office to hostel size before their checkin opens. Very friendly people.
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu I believe 2 or 3 ladies will be available to interview by this weekend. please standby. I'll just point them to the great hall [here] unless you want them elsewhere
mircea_popescu: aaand in other shock and awe waves, http://78.media.tumblr.com/83f57327b8d7a4a845edb2275ef47ddd/tumblr_n6b1ervn7i1s9sr6mo1_500.gif
mircea_popescu remembers the good old days when berbery pirates stuck their filthy fingers up maidens' snatches snatched on the seas to probe for joolry.
asciilifeform: 'Every Five Minutes A Christian Is Killed For The Faith, Click Here To Save Christian Lives' << apparently the 'ransom from berbers' scamola did not end with the 18th c..?
asciilifeform: from same rag, 'Nazi Cult In Germany Is Murdering Children, Cutting Them To Pieces, And Conducting Human Experiments On Them' ; 'The Islamic Government Of Turkey, And Its European Allies, Are Making Plans On Committing Mass Genocide Against Christians, And Enslaving...' etc
mircea_popescu: there shall be no AA!
mircea_popescu: in other random lulz, http://shoebat.com/2016/08/18/muslims-in-uk-try-to-force-romanians-to-comply-with-shariah-law-prohibition-against-alcohol-the-romanians-say-no-and-then-beat-the-muslims-with-baseball-bats-and-destroy-their-business-and-their/
ben_vulpes: other things vastly more important and costly
ben_vulpes: phf, asciilifeform do you know anything about "Wukix" the lisp system author(s)?
asciilifeform: in all of these cases, output, and the required time and space, are known in advance.
asciilifeform: or the recording for playing of whatever grunting noises through the speaker (which is really simply a specialized program)
asciilifeform: specifically, proggy that a) accepts no input, other than itself or b) accepts input, but does not ~branch~ on it -- can and really ougta 'say on the box' how many cycles it will consume, and how much memory it will require in its life.
asciilifeform: briefly revisiting upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1747117 + http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1747122 >> there is no reason why the execution of ~any~ program, e.g. browser graphicolade renderer, whose output is known, byte for byte, in advance by the author, should not follow the 'p' model.
mircea_popescu: the most elegant approach to deal with correctness, or acceptability w/e you state it. "there is no such thing"
asciilifeform: ( otherwise it would be trivially impossible to limit cycles )
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1747134 : a 'p' proggy can ~produce~ , as output, another such proggy, simply by printing characters. but, pointedly, CANNOT demand to execute it.
asciilifeform: ( they , characteristically, blamed linux kernel . )
asciilifeform: so there is that.
asciilifeform: sadly there is not afaik a known way to make'em 'trim' when they hang off a raid card. but otoh samsung repeatedly shipped units with buggy 'trim' , that randomly zeroed blocks.
asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu , ben_vulpes , trinque , other folx with serious machine fleet, consider to chime in re disk-sellers 0
asciilifeform: i dun recall specifically whom i left out , of this list, but that's more or less all of the major players.
asciilifeform: 'sandisk' is rubbish, fit to stoke oven; 'toshiba' is ~ok ; samsung ok, good for several dozen whole-surface writes, typically ; other types tried to date -- rubbish
asciilifeform: ( i have not tried intel's, simply cannot bring myself to buy. but tried afaik every major other . )
asciilifeform: i have been using the konsoomer version of similar 'disks' , for some yrs, this type has created the fewest headaches in asciilifeform's machineroom, among 4 various vendors'
mircea_popescu: it's for putting in the field.
asciilifeform: they're quarter-TBs , such as are sold for industrial temps, '10yr warranty' ( to this day i have nfi how one might go about claiming warranty on a hdd , but we digress ) etc
mircea_popescu: we wouldn't. that's the point.
asciilifeform: there is a forth-style decrementvariable-and-jumpifnotzero.
mircea_popescu: what control instructions are there ?
asciilifeform: but if you haven't executed a Q ( halt ) before the stated tick count, yer program is deemed notwellformed.
asciilifeform: there are control instruction, what.
asciilifeform: the thing ffa enables, is to make the 'this-here program takes known number of cycles, and known total bitness of memory' guarantee into an actually feasible thing.
a111: Logged on 2015-10-14 20:15 asciilifeform: 'p' (draft title) - for the old pgp.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is also in the process of standing up trb on dulap-III , an opteron monster not yet homed.
asciilifeform: also notably, mircea_popescu , yer trb box was the champ medallist, outlived even dulap.
asciilifeform: or otherwise it dun answer nomoar.
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu re 46.166.160.36 / http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html : is that box still around ? because if it is, yer trb is hung
asciilifeform: my only mental association with the concept of walking around with small piece of gold -- is the crematorium, the gold teeth pit.
asciilifeform owns no au beyond what's on the pcbs; reformed former user of au-flavoured goxes, at this point many yrs ago.
mircea_popescu suddenly realises how the news relates to him!!1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thing is, i could prolly sell the girls for their quite literal weight in gold, if it came to it.
mircea_popescu: thing with gold is that it doesn't take altogether much (volume) to get a kg or two
asciilifeform was just having a 'spot the gold' exercise in machineroom with pet
asciilifeform: ook it wiht me to Russia - Vladivostok, where I was informed even by the Sperbank branch, that they had no precious metals assayist, for all they knew it could be fake, and thus they too refused to buy it. Luckily for me, I had a private backup for funds, but - it could have been dicey. '
asciilifeform: from orlolcommentz: ' Much to my surprise, it doesn't translate internationally as easily as one might think. I have a - very - little gold. When I wanted to sell some here in Ecuador early this year, I discovered that in fact there is no-one in Ecuador who buys gold. Moreover, there is also no-one who would take it back to the Perth Mint [Australia] from whence it came. DHL and Fed-Ex only move papers!! There are no couriers. !! I t
mircea_popescu: let me put it the proper way : one can not forbid mel from using his craft ; mel can not be required to "learn fortran" to "upgrade" and "keep with the times".
mircea_popescu: there is that.
asciilifeform: and various other 'cheats' of mass-reduction.
mircea_popescu: this is not the same as llvm or wisual-c shittery.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the item was very much as described, ~"handwritten asm"
asciilifeform: i simply dun fully buy into the 'gnarly source is exactly same level of retardation as straight microshitization'. it isn't quite same thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform permit me to link you to http://trilema.com/2017/lets-revisit-the-google-is-irrelevant-discussion/#comment-123812
mircea_popescu: irene_yvonne not at the moment, but conceivably. how did you end up on it anyway ?
asciilifeform: 'open' contemplated above is the very basic 1990s sense, where 'can i take source, and build for my mips r4000' etc.
irene_yvonne: mircea_popescu: the article said that this isn't one time offer. So, any other photo ideas?