asciilifeform: they're ports !!
trinque: world file in there for example
asciilifeform: has errrything under the sun
trinque: portage is just the ebuilds, has everything.
hanbot: anyway trinque looking forward to distfiles collection --i'll be switching over to gentoo from the ubuntu mess soon. i've been fucking around with it for far too long, as asciilifeform in other words ;p
asciilifeform: 'The sound must be stored as a file in RIFF-WAVE format (‘.wav’) or Sun Audio format (‘.au’).' << suggests vintage
mircea_popescu: wasn't it proprietary in the first place ?
asciilifeform: ( laugh, but minix was recently found in the intel fritz thjng )
trinque: isn't bash capable of netcat-style networking these days?
asciilifeform: shituntu's place, is the oven.
asciilifeform: btw some very large share of 'no can haz trb, plz help' in the logs to date, feature shituntu
asciilifeform: curl belongs on the boot cd
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754912 << sorta-kinda on topic, i attempted a trb install in the field last week, was *thrilled* to discover curl doesn't ship with ubuntu 10.04 (?!)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754868 << this wasnt finished. that thing does nuffin , regardless of the loop termination condition
asciilifeform: where do i get 1 of these ? it eats wat, 3phase ?
asciilifeform: the ordinary.
BingoBoingo: What kind of shopvac? they happen on a spectrum
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 22:36 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754820 << why wouldja care how loud in the dc hall ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Was re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754828 also a bit of awe there
asciilifeform: if the sync behaviour weren't so atrociously retarded, this'd be a pretty simple thing
trinque: that, whatever else, don't recall now. sound maybe, other strange.
asciilifeform: just the dbus nonsense ?
trinque: in this, I have (and it's trivial to) maintain own package makefiles which depend on other openbsd ports.
trinque: no need for a useflag there
asciilifeform: trinque: although, the end of the line in my eyes is : a fully deautoconfized set of packages.
trinque: what made you balk previously was the lack of system-global fatwah against useflag, package, etc
trinque: and then, can have one or more sane systems.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 03:43 asciilifeform: my suspicion is that the bdb locks patch somehow has no effect when bdb built on netbsd
asciilifeform: but the results ( at least in asciilifeform's torture room ) have been disappointing, currently afaik nobody even knows why bdb ignores locks knob ( perma-hosing trb ) !! under bsd
asciilifeform: tbh i do wish we were using a bsd as the base
asciilifeform: funnily enuff the box i'm making nao, is destined to become (among other things) a cuntoo mirror.
trinque: part of the exercise will be to get a statically linked adatronic gcc, with which to build gnat from inside the musl system.
trinque: "eudev" exists as an alternative to the systemd-udev. dunno what else the heathens stapled to systemd meanwhile
asciilifeform: ought to be specific -- it's the mere fact that a binturd of name 'systemd' is present.
trinque: if latter what of openrc, headed to the gallows?
trinque: asciilifeform: is this the systemdtronic udev, or whole shebang?
trinque: aha, the rot is accelerating.
asciilifeform: phunphakt : this yr's gentoo stage3 all include systemd (disabled, sure, but BINARILY PRESENT motherfuckers)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22think+it+should%22+crashes << i fished it out of search. but yes, reason it's in quotes is because it referenced the earlier original.
diana_coman: because k can be 0 and so it needs to initialize result with nminus1 before the call, just in case...
diana_coman: instead it does first copy(result, nminus1) and then mpi_tdiv_q_2exp(result, result, k)
diana_coman: caller (primegn) in this case does a very weird thing - the one that actually GOT me into investigating and therefore finding this
mircea_popescu: _i >= 0; vs _i < (n); is the point here.
asciilifeform: nao next q is why does the caller appear to work
diana_coman: at the end result will be what I put in aka number?
diana_coman: so what do you say the result is, asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: so the thing will do what a human rightshifter does when given 0
asciilifeform: work it out : limb_cnt will be 0 ; the inner if takes the 'else' branch; MPN_COPY_INCR(w->d, u->d , u->limbs ) is the resulting call
mircea_popescu: k, the counter.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, what do you say the result should be when the count is 0 ? (k as mircea_popescu says)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: https://gmplib.org/manual/Integer-Division.html has the goodz. they renamed it , tho, mpz_tdiv_q_2exp .
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 21:45 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> in other 'news' , holy FUQ a 24cpu box in small enclosed space is LOUD << other difference between old and new hall. New has better acousting dampening
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754820 << why wouldja care how loud in the dc hall ?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other elfs, http://78.media.tumblr.com/01f4d182c709e246425cabc56fd953a4/tumblr_ng5i8ciPJX1rjbi2lo1_1280.jpg
shinohai: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ripple/ <<< All these dorks throwing coin into XRP, which isn't even a proper crypto, just because coinbase is gonna partner with 'em or something.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> in other 'news' , holy FUQ a 24cpu box in small enclosed space is LOUD << other difference between old and new hall. New has better acousting dampening
mircea_popescu: this is not the ~whole~ problem, but certainly a pole.
mircea_popescu: yes, actually, phf's formalization is prolly the natural schelling point here. "there's an impedance mismatch between procedurals and serializations and this needs care and feeding."
asciilifeform: in other 'news' , holy FUQ a 24cpu box in small enclosed space is LOUD
phf: yes, i think so, though i will further add that's not question of just diff, but rather the mismatch between mechanical actions and serialization format in general (there's a lot of bad examples, like dreamweaver, word, etc. and i can't recall any good examples)
diana_coman: so more like how much mismatch between the two representations (diff vs tool graphical or otherwise) is tolerable given that this mismatch inevitably creates noise?
phf: further down asciilifeform elaborates that even technically "noise" is not necessarily just a property of "bad tool", e.g. changing the radius of a circle in cartesian coordinates
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> o shit, the matchsticks << funny enough, was just thinking about this yesterday.
diana_coman: because basically I get to "choose" between: model it non-graphically and it's clear or use the "simpler" gui that makes it then 100 times harder to follow the changes; is that it or what am I missing there?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 18:56 phf: mircea_popescu: i think that's when one of those arguments where poking at it we discover there's no any substantial disagreement. i think we're thinking of same thing but from slightly different direction. i was thinking whatever we come up with for graphics will still have a gui interface, where one can use a mouse, etc. to lay out and modify objects. in that case and given existing models a diff will produce a lot of mechanical noise, which is accid
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754565 <- hmmm, I'm certainly not one for graphics much, but tbh a graphical tool that results then in a lot of noise when diffing outputs sounds like a bad tool to me
mircea_popescu: but the gist being that "communism failed through misapplying force" is not an argument against application of force, it's an argument against giving anything, force, the time of day, to idiots aka socialists.
trinque: meh, folks are gonna make money where it's available, doesn't excuse avoiding the forum.
asciilifeform: and mike_c, sat to my left , also saw ( where the hell is mike_c )
asciilifeform: mod6 was there, saw
asciilifeform: if i were put there.
asciilifeform remembers very well, the occasion.
mircea_popescu: not quite the same thing.
asciilifeform: that'd be other, asciilifeform's, matchbox.
asciilifeform: i still even have hanbot's 'proof of actually-having-known-the-number' sheet, pinned to wall
asciilifeform: i dun think phf was witness to the match trick
mircea_popescu: o shit, the matchsticks
mircea_popescu: either that or a galois space functional whose results on odd numbers counting from 17 produces a picture of a naked woman sucking cock.
phf: russian space program style you should also fit a MOD decoder into the last 27bytes of memory
asciilifeform: then failed to procure the box, or a usable display for such, and promptly stoppedconsidering
phf: there's also a special version for mp, where you can have a general avatar, who's a scantily clad elf babe
a111: Logged on 2017-12-15 14:50 mircea_popescu: in case anyone's curious, the 20 bux was for encouraging the folk who made viking age, which is a quite passible browser game. sorta old warcraft style graphically, othertwise a tower defense married to the old bonbon "city development" azn thing.
phf: all this and more would've endeared tmsr to nintendo if not for the fact that nobody here plays anything but variations on Global World Domination Campaign Mode (Ultimate Strategy)!
mircea_popescu: hey, the 2010 ipad still works great for cutting carrots on
asciilifeform: there are plenty of working 8 and 16bit nintendoae, still to this day
BingoBoingo: Well, problem was Nintendo mad their first ipods TOO robust, machines never died
mircea_popescu: but then apple targetted women and stole their cake because boys may hunt, but women reliably nest and that's that ?
BingoBoingo: They were
mircea_popescu: wasn't nintento the original winner of the ipod hunger games, where boys had one in pocket at all times ?
mircea_popescu confesses to unreliable ignorance on the topic.
asciilifeform: phf: you remind me of asciilifeform's brother's reaction to being shown a vr headset , yrs ago. he spake thusly : 'it's better than two rusty nails on a rope'
mircea_popescu: kaspiersky and av-something i forget both had advertisements up on the screen about how they're doing things.
phf: asciilifeform: nintendo, if nothing else, is a single purpose machine, for gaming, designed by the "salariman can have fun with family 13:00-15:00 sunday" japanese. imho preferable to tivo
mircea_popescu: this was not a boot. the machine was booted and firefox up. just, COULD NOT LOAD A PAGE.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other "ancient trilema slavekeeping lulz", http://trilema.com/2012/in-care-taiem-in-carne-vie/
asciilifeform: ( winblowz, as most-everyone knows, won't boot off an actual read-only device. so these steampunk hacks. )
asciilifeform: btw i once encountered an interesting artifact , from scrap dealer. it was a pci card made for orc 'web cafes', that took 2 ide snakes. each expected identical disk. twist : all ~writes~ went to the 'aux' snake. reads, first to aux, then to primary. and there was reset button.
asciilifeform: you wouldn't want chumper to install from cd ( they dun give'im a cd, in any event )
mircea_popescu: i imagine there's people out there regretting their wife doesn't come with a "reset factory defaults" button, and would be VERY shocked to discover i'd very much consider it a disaster, in the line of http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#comment-122812
mircea_popescu: this notion of computing you're familiar with is not used in the tivoputer lands.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: either that or forgot to plug in mains, lol
asciilifeform: sonic3: they haven't invented backups on yer planet, or wat
sonic3: lost the hardware
mircea_popescu: i think his idea of "pretty secretive" was rather in the vein of http://trilema.com/2012/bitcoin-is-creating-a-whole-new-set-of-problems/ ; ie would like to start over under a nerw identity.
asciilifeform: hm alreayd registered... lost the key??
sonic3: i will immediately after i start the node tonight
asciilifeform: sonic3: there are at least 4 people here that will readily help. but you really oughta register with deedbot
sonic3: think you can lend a hand to the build process if i get stuck?
mircea_popescu: i'm not maintaining it, the bitcoin foundation is, but anyway, sure.
sonic3: i remember you said i should use a specific version of the node daemon
sonic3: anyhow, that's not the point
sonic3: thanks for the +v
a111: Logged on 2014-01-04 00:00 asciilifeform: re: 400: 'for your convenience, we have packaged the defective ones separately.'
mircea_popescu: "why waste a spot for inexistent, 4 could go there"
asciilifeform: 'why wouldja do that, letters could go there'
mircea_popescu: goes right into discussion of memory above. memory of a different kind, more resistence-of-the-medium-y.
asciilifeform: all writing is for speaking dead. ( even before properly buried; arguably the asciilifeform of 3yr ago is every bit as dead as his ancestors)
mircea_popescu: sure. but i tell you, speaking dead is another major.
asciilifeform: the 'ancients' , notably, were obsessed with 'can haz search'. recall vannevar bush's elaborate 'steampunk' schemes for optical/analogue search in text
mircea_popescu: first system ever seen where the dead live amoing the living as a quite plainly factual matter.
mircea_popescu: 60% or so. a good quarter is the reference-read.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
mircea_popescu: it's a good open question this, "go research and answer why ck-kpss log did not work for them"
mircea_popescu: oh oh. i was thinking the statistics test
asciilifeform: ( not so many yrs ago, their olgl0gz were finally printed , e.g. hruschev's sessions , a little bit interesting to archaeologists )
mircea_popescu: "and if everyone had a fucking log where the fuck would mit ever find space to pretend it matters"
asciilifeform: who was it, napoleon, 'if only there were a bullet here for me, i will be remembered as a great hero'
mircea_popescu: no but look. how the fuck can anyone at mit even stand, or for that matter sleep at night. WHERE IS THE LOG
mircea_popescu: anyway, the recently linked kay interview struck me as exactly this : "check out the retarded monkey, discussing 1960s ex memoria. no wonder he sounds like an idiot"
mircea_popescu: and why i didn't come to the same conclusion as alf, "more memory is better". not for me, i have enough for what i use it for.
mircea_popescu: so this, i would count, as the foremost and most notable application of tractor to IA. logs.
mircea_popescu: essible to the man captive in "either you remember it AS IT WAS or IT IS LOST FOREVER!!")
mircea_popescu: (there's a major but poorly understood and never discussed advantage of the log, in that it empowers my very "eccentric" except fundamental "i don't remember any names" [ http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704118 and http://trilema.com/2017/of-ducks-and-lameness/#footnote_0_76425 both references] : by being released from the need to preserve history myself, i can radically cut items which empowers heuristics not otherwise acc
asciilifeform: nobody had anything like thel0gz, or v.
mircea_popescu: and "here's what i remember of what phf and alf said 15 to 45 years ago" is not nearly the same thing
asciilifeform: parc in particular dug into the ast thing
mircea_popescu: but note that while we have the web log, mit didn't.
phf: mircea_popescu: yeah, MIT/symbolics concerned themselves with these things too (the whole "presentation" concept is that of a entity that's equivalent between code, internal presentation and inline rendering)
BingoBoingo: In other pressing but not essentials: The fellow at the datacenter meeting confirmed my suspicions, I have seen few Argentinos in Montevideo porque Argentina es un pais pobre.
mircea_popescu: more importantly : these are things which were never discussed publicly, nor does there exists this system where "ideal pollution of machinery is attemptedly measured to be reduced".
mircea_popescu: anyway. while neither pressing nor essential, these are important considerations. we see.
mircea_popescu: but the general problem, "how polluting machine genreators HAVE to be and how would they not be" is a very important point
mircea_popescu: because obviously fp jitter & c will drive every human up the wall. but then again having the generator not generate it prolly requires work. and so on.
mircea_popescu: a large portion of what's being studied there is just how feasible a "quiet" producer of svg is
phf: ental to understanding. if on the other hand the language we make is designed to be authored by hand, and is authored lightly assisted by tooling, then there's opportunity and a kind of cognitive pull for the author to make the changes as meaningful as possible. i'm basically ok with working somewhere on that spectrum, but i was preemptively ranting against the kind of patches that communicate nothing but accidental floating point jitter of the graphic
phf: mircea_popescu: i think that's when one of those arguments where poking at it we discover there's no any substantial disagreement. i think we're thinking of same thing but from slightly different direction. i was thinking whatever we come up with for graphics will still have a gui interface, where one can use a mouse, etc. to lay out and modify objects. in that case and given existing models a diff will produce a lot of mechanical noise, which is accid
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 05:49 mircea_popescu: let's try and understand this : running a house without a bipedal dishwasher, either in personam or as the role only, to be filled by whichever of the available persons according to some (arbitrary, male-oppressive-phalocentric, etc) criteria results in the situation where you gotta pay 3 cents whenever you use a fork. what has been saved ?
mircea_popescu: as to the narrowed down " it's not any kind of understanding to repeat computers work by hand to recreate that svg" << it may not be. but it may well be. the fundamental problem with "time can be but wasted" is that there are no categorical cuts available. spinoza polished lenses and miller worked for the cosmoccocic company. deciding aforehand what tractor work is worth doing by hand is notoriously and to this day the chief
mircea_popescu: phf then related to what ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "no ---/+++" went away in discussion last round, when phf's notational view prevailed
mircea_popescu: ye, here we have regular (this is important) and high volume (also important) hose. and people do irregular (not just as time) and low volume, so this is categorically differentiable from all other patches.
phf: mircea_popescu: no no, unrelated to the current actual svg experiment
mircea_popescu: phf i thought i said explicitly the proposed patching of svg is merely TO TEST the patching system from a diff perspectrive.
asciilifeform: pointedly, no moves/copies (without considerable cost) , which spawned the thread
mircea_popescu: or maybe we've lost track of what we're arguing here. what's the argument ?
asciilifeform: soldier isn't asked to pretend that enemy mg nest 'dun exist'. but he isn't given the option of not advancing 'because futile anyway'.
mircea_popescu: hence, nothing to be ashamed of. but ALSO can't just pretend it ain't there lalala.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this goes all the way to the fact that we dun actually ~understand~ rsa ( in that there is no proof that you ~must~ factor to break ; or what the complexityclass of factoring is )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-11 20:01 diana_coman: asciilifeform, fwiw I read it as in went through it line by line and with pencil and paper; ran it too at the end, played a bit around with tests and that; and since we are at this, nitpick: in FZ_Swap why T:=X if already initialised at declaration or what am I missing of Ada in there?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 17:24 diana_coman: and in more recent lol-with-gpg: the primegen function in gpg allocates secure memory for candidate prime when generating for rsa BUT then it goes on and calls is_prime on that "n" and is_prime calculates and stores n-1 in ...insecure memory
phf: well, that goes back to the meaning question. with code i don't get ascii codes as ints and then have to paper out the actual text before i can work out meaning. in fact what i do put on paper is almost never related to the written code itself. in the case of mechanical graphics though, my first step is ascii-to-characters
mircea_popescu: "no i don't need to" "why do you think this ?" "stop bothering me, troll."
phf: break out that rule paper and work out the graphics like a man
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 18:14 asciilifeform: unlike http://www.stalingrad-battle.ru/images/stories/ris42.jpg fella , asciilifeform cannot actually read 7bit ascii without a machine tool either
asciilifeform: imho this goes right back to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754465 ; thread is really about what is the minimal expected tooling
mircea_popescu: yes you can derive meaning, and of the exact same kind in both cases. but you flatter yourself with that kind being "true meaning" in the first case because you can, and you can't in the second so you don't.
phf: mircea_popescu: i'm not sure that was my idea :) restating what i'm trying to say is that i can derive meaning out of vpatch by reading it, but i'm not sure i can likewise derive meaning out of a svg diff by simply reading it. i suppose the assumption here is that svg was produced and edited by computer means, where imposing meaning on the sequence of modifications is not the primary (and often tricky) concern
asciilifeform: 'set this-here bit to change the lens to such-...'
mircea_popescu was doing typography at some point, did some reading on the scholarlity of it.
asciilifeform: there was. subj goes back many decades.
mircea_popescu: there was some discussion as to the history of typographical ideas in the log somewhere
mircea_popescu: phf was your idea that "well maybe you just don't have a very clear picture of what x was in the first place, gotta press to it" ? ie, accumulating mental errors over the patch flow to GET TO x ?
asciilifeform: trinque: http://www.frank-buss.de/lisp/functional.html is modern rewrite , the original (linked) is an ancient pdf.
mircea_popescu: but the entirety of what vpatch is, is "here's what changed from node x to node y"
phf: you don't necessarily need to go from state to state, you can understand the nature of change by reading the vpatch
mircea_popescu: how do you go from state to state other than through a diff/patch ?
mircea_popescu: phf either i'm not understanding what a .vpatch is or wut ?
phf: mircea_popescu: i think the differ and rendered for the ~diffs~ is significantly different from what our current foundation is. so in principle i don't see an issue with svg, as long as you can get the ~diff~ out of the vpatch itself, rather than say, pressing original, pressing new and then eyeballing the differences.
asciilifeform: out of curiosity, how big is the expanded item ?
mircea_popescu: this isn't for going to war with ; this is for checking out the tool(s) with.
mircea_popescu: but the idea is, getting an automated patch process going may throw a different light on this whole thing and turn out most informative.
mircea_popescu: either one special key or one new key each week, as you feel like.
asciilifeform: why wouldn't you vtronify the most parsimonious representation of an item that you have, though
trinque: could sure; I'd have to inspect the svg and see if it's readable. it's coming out of graphviz.
mircea_popescu: guy could actually publish the item as a succession of patches, and speaking of this : hey trinque, could you be enticed to actually genesis that item, and patch it weekly ?
mircea_popescu: phf what is the problem with svg ?
asciilifeform: so long as the format is actually well-defined, and doesn't require whole world to be bent around it at infinite cost
asciilifeform: unlike http://www.stalingrad-battle.ru/images/stories/ris42.jpg fella , asciilifeform cannot actually read 7bit ascii without a machine tool either
mircea_popescu: nobody will EVER find themselves in the situation of BOTH a) hurr durr, i am at leisure now let me make a patch and b) o noes, i am in distress now, can not run basic machinery.
phf: i supper proper presentation of fg schematics in a v-tron is either in the style of the marine chronometer book i have next to me or not at all. "taking first the essentials, c is the escape wheel. the escapement consists of the bar E, carrying the two projections e, e' etc". everything else ought to be handled separately
asciilifeform: this thread is incidentally pretty great , it is exactly the one from 2016 but with the sides switched. ( earlier it was mircea_popescu who insisted -- in the orig 'clearsigning' thread -- on human-eye-readables )
mircea_popescu: where i can change the DISCRETE data bits independently ; as well as their adnotation.
mircea_popescu: you use machinery to turn data to comfortable representation ; the "human readable" is not about "being able to stuff my dick in power socket".
asciilifeform: much as i like sexpr, a sexpr dump of a vector drawing is not humanreadable either. at least not with my puny brain, i have nfi, perhaps mircea_popescu can render these in his head as he reads'em ?
mircea_popescu: "svg". the thing that svg should have been.
asciilifeform: i'm still waiting to hear how mircea_popescu would represent e.g. the fg schematic, in ideal vtron.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if people thought in asts it'd be computers programming them.
asciilifeform: there ain't actually any orc glyphs in my patches tho
mircea_popescu: and the whole arguments with alphabets and alf's perennial "but i r creative speshul snowflake, must has hyeroglyphs"
asciilifeform: whether it 'is' in fact ast, or merely representably as one with 0 loss, is the open q afaik
mircea_popescu: and "asciiart" is imo the wrong direction to take at the "asciiart or literate code" fork in the road.
mircea_popescu: it is an open and complicated q of whether what's in your head is an ast.
phf: the ast direction moves away from patches as literature (which is i think what mp is saying from a different direction?)
asciilifeform: right. but the 'source' in yer head is, really , an ast, whether you end up hitting space 1ce or 3ce when you end up entering the text. and likewise when i read it, it gets reparsed into ast.
mircea_popescu: but what we're diffingh and patching are properly speaking our own notes, not the asts.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 02:05 mircea_popescu recalls somewhat fondly old days of "put the model in and wait a few hours for to find out how you fucked it up this time"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem is that no, not really. everyone is eating the "cvasi-hulang description of a meta-ast then watching in trepidation what ast comes of it". as per that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753058
asciilifeform: ultimately everyone is really eating the ast.
asciilifeform: the closest we can prolly ask for to 'hash meaning' is sexpr/ast.
mircea_popescu: trinque exactly my tho9ughts. "i don't want to go there. yet."
trinque: the whitespace thing though is a fine cut of it, since the next step incurs orders of magnitude more complexity (parser per lang)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's unfortunate that hashes can't hash meaning, but then again we're stuck with babbage looking over one shoulder and turing over the other.
asciilifeform: we actually had the ast-diff thread, re phf's lisp diff lament.
trinque: heads towards ast-diff, and people have their presentation layer do whatever with the ast while coding.
phf: " I use space as a terminator and words execute immediately, there is no CR to mark the end of the line. There are no CRs, just space delimiters. I currently have BS and Delete. I would like to keep only two special keys, BS and a key to exit. I think I would prefer BS over Delete."
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is the important, v-powered realisation here : there can NOT BE such a thing as bit-ambiguity in a source. if "this bit being either set or null has no effect" you have a problem, which must be addressed. because it sure as fuck isn't acceptabru to read diffs of style in a patch. patches are for substantive change.
phf: asciilifeform: i've had a more detailed quote on the dead machine, but the less detailed equivalent is “I use my own 0-Z character set. It is a six bit character set. It only has upper case and there is no distinction between the letter "O" and zero.”
mircea_popescu: just as soon as something "is ignored by the compiler", that something now has to be treated somewhere else.
mircea_popescu: that's the thing : the moment you have unconnected expression, which is to say \t = " " you suddenly have the problem of style.
mircea_popescu: "no other char than tab up until the first alphanum in each line" is a fine rule ; and if someone discovers that he can't press his homebrew let someone fix his homebrew.