mod6: im about to hit the dumpswitch here too... trying to give it a chance.
phf: from xach's quicklisp update "This update was created with an older version of SBCL. The latest SBCL includes ASDF 3.3.1, which breaks a handful of projects in ways that have not been resolved yet."
l0de: The l0de radio hour is online! http://www.youtube.com/l0de/live call in live at 315-505-4666 TONIGHTS EPISODE: REMOTE AS FUCK, SHIT MAY NOT WORK
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 20:26 BingoBoingo: In other news NYC apartment fire that killed 12 being called deadlist since 1992 provinding ample fodder for 9/11 lovers
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760909 << recall the good old days when the "reddit experts" / pantsuit&allies actually got to burn in warehouses rather than 18sqft ny apartments ?<< That was last year, and how did te steel melt if there was no fire??
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 04:50 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760177 << funny, im pretty sure this was in the logs. as a naggum quote.
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760511 << possible that it got buried in the unconscious somewhere
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 04:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760175 << musta started way the fuck up there then huh :D
pete_dushenski: just read about the 5451-piece richard mille "jura" clock in quebec city, as it happens, and i'll definitely be checking it out next time i'm there. apparently the thing took 6 years to build, which isn't so hard to believe when you see that incorporates a perpetual calendar (which knows leap years from non-leap years, unlike an annual calendar), rementoire d'egalite (for improving accuracy), and equation of
pete_dushenski: can't have too many public clocks though. so much the more if they're technically novel.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-23#1757448 << it just so happens that i saw one in vancouver's gastown neighbourhood last month. not the most tuneful steam whistle and it looks far older than the 40 years of age it actually is, but the plaque did indicate that it was something of a technical innovation. looked like a simplified rube goldberg machine to me.
mircea_popescu: seems like the pantsuit lost 90% of sqfootage per capita in the past three years, from ~10 to ~1.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 20:26 BingoBoingo: In other news NYC apartment fire that killed 12 being called deadlist since 1992 provinding ample fodder for 9/11 lovers
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760909 << recall the good old days when the "reddit experts" / pantsuit&allies actually got to burn in warehouses rather than 18sqft ny apartments ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760908 << i know, i went over and pissed in http://trilema.com/2016/the-life-and-times-of-one-phil-daian-aspiring-nigger-apprentice-cocksucker/ 's cereal a little bit this morning.
asciilifeform: but i'll let phf answer the particulars of this.
asciilifeform: iirc 1 of the ways he got the thing to stand up reliably was via exactly 'save-lisp-and-die' snapshot.
mircea_popescu: i thought it was re his difficulties in updating the machinery behind btcbase without downtime
asciilifeform: but i still blame the lisps, not v.
mircea_popescu: nor is it reasonable thereby to expect "this lisp instance runs while a new press gets pulled in"
mircea_popescu: nor is there such a thing as triple bypass while running a marathon
mircea_popescu: the point is that item either a) operates continuously, provided it is THIS item, ie, this specific collection of parts or else b) is stopped while beingt serviced, ie having a cog replaced. there's no clock that works while having its cogs switched around.
asciilifeform: 4 parts ( serialdongle, controller, the 2 analogueboards )
asciilifeform: well for a short while there ain't any, when nothing plugged in
asciilifeform: not as if the serial dongle gives a fuck
mircea_popescu: but not the controller.
asciilifeform: actually you can hotswap the analogue boards
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fuckgoats still is THIS orrery, rather than "hotswappable"
asciilifeform: ( and 1 of the few readily accessible pieces of digital gear that fit this description , afaik )
mircea_popescu: i can understand the fascination with "this orrery has been in clickety-clacking continuously since 1625", but let's point out that it relies on a) THIS orrery, as opposed to "constantly changing randomly pile of cogs" and b) it's a discrete mechanism, like the human heart. it takes a break every beat. essentially the problem has been hidden, by these, not resolved.
asciilifeform: the 'holy grail' is items which are demonstrably safe to operate continuously -- i.e. fsa with no wedge states. these are not so easy to achieve; FUCKGOATS is one example
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:35 phf: lisps deal with freshly-pressed instances as well as anything else: by doing a clean restart. my point is not lisps, my point is that current solution assumes lack of state and delegates the problem to a non-v-tronic build system
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760903 << rather the current design deproblematizes state altogether (in this sense of state, and problem). hence his comments re "then lisps are broken".
mircea_popescu: is the entirety of this fiddling you going "i'm curious how this thing could work/break at the edges?" or is it rather "i wonder how i could run a v tree as an infrastructure node without reboots" ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:18 phf: for example one thing that i tried with my lisp workflow is to have the system automatically compile/load touched files in their order of appearance in a v patch. but the order here is explicitly linear, requires fiddling with patch order, and is definitely not how we use it now
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:14 phf: v also doesn't solve all the problems that asdf attempts to solve (for example compilation dependency)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:03 phf: also particularly gendered packages outright put #-asdf3 (error "requires asdf3") and ~usually~ it's because they silently rely on uiop, far's unix compatability layer
asciilifeform: stuff it behind the 'Finite Field....' phrase
asciilifeform: ( mismatched b/w title of section and the chart )
asciilifeform: just give it the help text.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 02:58 shinohai: ah mircea_popescu lookup has been there a while, but i think i forgot to have pete_dushenski push it to his bots page updates.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i recommend against the hardcoded summary tho,it'll change regularly
mircea_popescu: "publish" means "form, and fix the form" not necessarily "share with cows".
mircea_popescu: phf and if you don't share with heathens, make it so !!shelf returns a pile encrypted to my key for instance, nothing wrong with that.
asciilifeform: hence the urgency of 'write!'
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 17:36 phf: (which is by the way not what i do, i just fucking fix. every. single. fucking. piece. of. quicklisp. packaged. code. i. get. my. hands. on. motherfuckers)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760849 << but not like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1756758 ; why not ? cheap entry right there. /me would definitely read phf's fixed lisp code shelf.
asciilifeform: sbcl is a pretty interesting example of one of those spiked pits, like e.g. gcc -- items to which there is no practical alternative except 'throw away the comp and build log cabin'. but asciilifeform does not have phf's deep historical view of sbcl/cmucl ; asciilifeform arrived into the spiked pit directly
mircea_popescu: here's a problem i perceive phf : you could guess about log(n) of my understanding of various things that interest me on the basis of reading trilema ; i could not guess epsilon of thge say your understanding of sbcl on the basis of reading whatever you provide voluntarily. i could glean it from this kind of interaction, but here's what that means : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760839
asciilifeform: in other idiocies, 'you are rightly observing that svg doesn't support word-wrapping directly. however, you might benefit from foreignObject elements serving as a wrapper for xhtml fragments where word-wrapping is available.'
BingoBoingo: In other news NYC apartment fire that killed 12 being called deadlist since 1992 provinding ample fodder for 9/11 lovers
asciilifeform: rather than 'automatic clean starts' crapola
asciilifeform: phf: i was thinking of cures in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1758977
phf: lisps deal with freshly-pressed instances as well as anything else: by doing a clean restart. my point is not lisps, my point is that current solution assumes lack of state and delegates the problem to a non-v-tronic build system
asciilifeform: the irreplicable-churning-pot-of-liquishit mentality that always-on items tend to suffer from -- is a disease, will have to be cured.
asciilifeform: and to the extent lisps dun play nicely with freshly-pressed instances -- it is the lisps which are broken
phf: obviously not designed for that, but the assumption here then is that you're running a fresh instance for each fresh press, which is suboptimal for a lisp (this particular detail will likewise come up when v is run on an always-on system of any kind, be that a cuntoo or a lispm)
phf: also v doesn't recognize state. in a tree A->B pressing to A, then loading, then pressing to B, then loading is different than pressing to B right away and loading the result
phf: for example one thing that i tried with my lisp workflow is to have the system automatically compile/load touched files in their order of appearance in a v patch. but the order here is explicitly linear, requires fiddling with patch order, and is definitely not how we use it now
phf: v also doesn't solve all the problems that asdf attempts to solve (for example compilation dependency)
phf: v runs with a special case of sat solver. i don't understand which part of "asdf doesn't have a sat solver" and "sat is never mentioned" is not clear. i'm saying that whatever dependency resolution is always a special case of sat. you put some contraints on it (no cirlces, etc.) and then you can have special case solutions.
asciilifeform: lemme guess, there are blocking packages ? that can't be used together on 1 system ?!
phf: and there's probably no formal sat in asdf. i'm saying that bulk of dependency resolution problems would come from sat though
asciilifeform: why is that in there??
phf: fare claims somewhere that he solved a gnarly dependency resolution bug in asdf, but the nature of bug is never revealed, and SAT is never mentioned (i suspect most bugs in asdf would be SAT related)
phf: also particularly gendered packages outright put #-asdf3 (error "requires asdf3") and ~usually~ it's because they silently rely on uiop, far's unix compatability layer
phf: there's actually some extensions that are not necessarily evil (like :email or :author in a defsystem), bulk of fail comes from test-op, that's not supported in old version, but that nobody uses test-op consistently at all
asciilifeform: and naturally no pulling-in of anything , in asdf or other packagetron, that hasn't been vgenesised.
phf: and it is submarine with screen doors. it's possible that asdf in vpatches is the door through which the horror comes.
asciilifeform: otherwise you have 'submarine with screen door'.
phf: it's not added up to coherent whole yet. so far the conclusion is that compatability layers are evil, and that you basically have to maintain own versions of everything that abstracts your lisp implementation details
asciilifeform: or at least the process whereby produced.
asciilifeform: gotta post these fixes
phf: (which is by the way not what i do, i just fucking fix. every. single. fucking. piece. of. quicklisp. packaged. code. i. get. my. hands. on. motherfuckers)
phf: so instead of addressing the core machinery, they put these hooks all over the place, where some things are part of serve event, and some are not. anyway, you ran into the fact that 1.0.42 introduced a flag to socket-make-stream :serve-events, which is true by default. it was later changed to false
asciilifeform ended up digging up another and replacing
phf: asciilifeform: serve event is a cmucl way of tracking streams of every kind (since no threading, repl mainloop is a reactor pattern). sbcl has just lifted the whole thing, but then never really redid the architecture
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other recent 'to allcomers' lulz , https://archive.is/3OTat >> '...n the Tesla world as a Model S owner built a cryptocurrency mining rig in his electric car... The idea was suggested in order to use the free access to electricity with the Supercharger network. Technically, if someone is able to draw power from the Tesla to power those mining systems... '
asciilifeform: ( it dun work with privmsg yet. but otherwise caan use. )
asciilifeform: ^ triggered by the ircbot-connect invocation .
asciilifeform: ^ by all indications, cl-irc is broken by something-or-other in the massive pot-o-liquishit
asciilifeform: in other noose, ben_vulpes , trinque , ircbot on sbcl 1.0.38-3.el6 : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/aojeZ/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: imo the only proper root of 4chan.
asciilifeform: really he oughta have fallen victim to a falling turtle after writing 'anathem'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dja know the group im talking of ? "pushkin should be thrown overboard the steamship of modernity" ?
mircea_popescu: "Science fiction author Neal Stephenson has become the "Chief Futurist" of Magic Leap, an augmented reality company"
asciilifeform: this was the d00d's 1 properly original item.
mircea_popescu: please tell me hylaea is not a reference to the fucking futurists
asciilifeform: ( unless you like flipping to the glossary, stephenson did a bit of lem-like play with language )
asciilifeform: you can throw the html.
mircea_popescu: o look, there's a pt07 AND a part07
mircea_popescu: speaking of copies, anyone got anathem warez ?
mircea_popescu: so give her a copy, correct the item she produces and there you go, she got a blog now.
mircea_popescu: doesn't the pet read ru ?
asciilifeform: 1 of these days asciilifeform gotta translate maslennikov. the ONLY afaik discussion of The Gaping Black Hole Of Cryptohokum that exists outside of tmsr.
BingoBoingo: The ordering is more one of prioritizing. No need to stop. At any number of languages, but the focus can shift. As time makes the spanish more comfortable, Portuguese is a natural next point of focus.
a111: Logged on 2015-06-14 16:31 mircea_popescu: that's ok, the rule is 0 1 infinity.
mircea_popescu: (for les autres : defloration is another word for losing one's virginity. the woman's name being lorena, and her disposition deeply pubescent anxiotic (you should know what this is) which is beyond ridiculous in a 40yo not to mention hysterical given the amount of compensatory covers-for-impotence she engages in, pretending entirely without basis to be an actress, poetess and whatnot -- the nedeflorena name immediately clicke
mircea_popescu: no, they want to die quietly and alone in a corner.
mircea_popescu: "maybe if i sit really still i cease to be ? no ? how about if i also close eyes ? still ? plug ears as well, how about then ???"
asciilifeform: and not to die 'with a bang' driving panzer over untermenschen, either
mircea_popescu: what the american aims to is to no longer exist.
mircea_popescu: entirely chtonic civilisation, it copied more from the original socialists than just goebbel's radio playlist. it fucking copied the will-to-die, and substantially.
asciilifeform: would rather magic it away. like in microshit's ciphered patches. ( i knew folx who made a comfortable living simply by reversing those. )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760692 << they don't want you to LOOK at the 'bug'. elementarily.
asciilifeform: this item is the sucking black hole of suction at the heart of all modern cryptohokum
BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/26/as-it-turns-out-fireworks-do-not-photograph-well-navidad-in-the-land-of-tranquility/#comment-114452
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 18:10 asciilifeform: a 'secure prng' is fundamentally THE SAME animal as the 'secure hash' and the 'secure blockcipher'.
asciilifeform: but to return upstack , if one could design a satisfactory ( somehow! ) hash , it would thereby also necessarily be a satisfactory symm cipher.
asciilifeform: ditto symmetric ciphers ( we already discussed, they are equivalent )
mircea_popescu: "here's our list of 13s" "here's our other list of 13s"
mircea_popescu: reading the keccak lisp thing that unpleasant irk becomes inescapably evident : this is just fucking "advanced" rot 13.
BingoBoingo: Srsly, at least smoking provides social cover when you lack other vices
asciilifeform: ( this is prolly doomed to happen in the end. i.e. gotta retarget gnat to a simplified mips or the like, and then run in emulator, verify actual clock cycle counts )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 15:35 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760640 << would be interesting to see exactly how this 'bug' looked. but currently can't be arsed to unearth the old crud ( where even is it )
asciilifeform: afaik all of the routines as they stand nao, will work on nontraditional bitnesses of bytes and bytenesses of words
mircea_popescu: but not on "byte" meaning anything other than what it does, which is to say... "how much the machine takes in at a time"
mircea_popescu: and why the fuck would you maintain it in a place which has no need to maintain it. ffa is free from said flesh.
asciilifeform: in that sense binary-logic was the original sin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i understand why the sins of the flesh make this unavoidable. but it's still fucking wrong god damned it all to heck.
asciilifeform: lol i'm for 11bit bytes then!1
asciilifeform: consider the approach in ffa. only critical bottlenecks, that soak up 90+% of cycles and create an impractically-slow rsa op , get massaged ~to the extent necessary~ , and without compromising type safety
mircea_popescu should put this in the very blog in question but plox take out that damned chicken clucking thing.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760642 << the part that was never clear to me is 'if speed of clean lisp is inadequate, why not write whole thing in asm; if adequate -- why commit this war crime'
asciilifeform: there is not a pill against this; it is why cmachine Must Die
asciilifeform: tho in all fairness the unoptimized 'reference' is at least not immediately nauseating ( https://github.com/pmai/sha3/blob/master/keccak-reference.lisp )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 02:59 phf: i mean, if you read norvig's python snippets you can clearly see they are written by a very experienced lispers. you literally never see python like that in the wild, but yet there it is.
mircea_popescu: a converse of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760179 ie lisp written by imbeciles on the level of phil daian.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> apparently arse technica starved for noosefodder << Aha, notice the throwaway blah blah minoritit afterthought!
asciilifeform: i did read the current item, imho quite ugly
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 15:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760601 << "Releases prior to release 1.0.2 had a bug that could lead to input being ignored and hence wrong message digests being calculated for input with repeated calls to sha3-update (see README file for details). Please upgrade as soon as possible, since this bug can lead to unintended collisions in generated message digests." and of course "The library should be portable across nearly a
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760640 << would be interesting to see exactly how this 'bug' looked. but currently can't be arsed to unearth the old crud ( where even is it )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 14:57 BingoBoingo: In other pirate radio vs SOP lulz: https://archive.is/AWcBV "When the agents inquired about the nature of Sidos’ relationship with Mr. Polynice, they asserted that they had not seen him in two years. When the agents asked about the unlicensed transmitter, the Sidos alternately refused to respond or claimed that no radio transmitter had been operated on their property since the 2012 in rem seizure... As had occurred during the Augus
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760637 << hilariously, i had previously read the whole thing... on fcc's www. ( they have a public pillory of all citations/fines/complaints/etc )
mircea_popescu: some cocksucker by the name pierre r. mai
mircea_popescu: "PMSF IT Consulting is proud to announce its acceptance as a member of ASAM e.V.. As a long time user of ASAM standards, like XCP and A2L, we see the ongoing central role of ASAM as a provider for standards in the embedded domain and beyond, with a special focus on automotive applications."
mircea_popescu: from "the people who shouldn't have computer access" gallery.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 12:03 shinohai: so far seems to be at least equal to the perl sins that only my confessor, mod6 knows of
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760601 << "Releases prior to release 1.0.2 had a bug that could lead to input being ignored and hence wrong message digests being calculated for input with repeated calls to sha3-update (see README file for details). Please upgrade as soon as possible, since this bug can lead to unintended collisions in generated message digests." and of course "The library should be portable across nearly a
BingoBoingo: And the trb node weather from my perch appears to have improved substantially with regards to nodes at the chaintip since this weekend.
BingoBoingo: t 2015 site visit, the station had been taken off the air when the agents took further field strength measurements immediately after the Sido interview ended."
BingoBoingo: In other pirate radio vs SOP lulz: https://archive.is/AWcBV "When the agents inquired about the nature of Sidos’ relationship with Mr. Polynice, they asserted that they had not seen him in two years. When the agents asked about the unlicensed transmitter, the Sidos alternately refused to respond or claimed that no radio transmitter had been operated on their property since the 2012 in rem seizure... As had occurred during the Augus
mircea_popescu: no, i mean the comments.
shinohai apologizes for the rate spam
BingoBoingo: Also the LISA operating system is supposed to be open sourced soon
BingoBoingo: And guess who the wops beat in court: "Brothers Vincenzo and Giacomo Barbato named their clothing brand "Steve Jobs" in 2012 after learning that Apple had not trademarked his name. "We did our market research and we noticed that Apple, one of the best known companies in the world, never thought about registering its founder's brand, so we decided to do it," the two told la Repubblica Napoli. The Barbatos designed a logo that resembles
BingoBoingo: Instead of slow river barges taking away the corn to serve as feedstock for who knows what chemistry
deedbot: shinohai updated rating of BingoBoingo from 3 to 4 << For services rendered to tmsr in LATAM in futherance of true isp and the rich documentation of his travails
BingoBoingo: And it is taking some getting used to going out to the river and not being able to see the other side. And also seeing two way ship traffic with... big ass ships
shinohai: !!rate BingoBoingo 4 For services rendered to tmsr in LATAM in futherance of true isp and the rich documentation of his travails
BingoBoingo: And re: keeping up with chaintips - Quite a few big as ships lined up off short waiting for their turn in port.
BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/26/as-it-turns-out-fireworks-do-not-photograph-well-navidad-in-the-land-of-tranquility/#comment-114450 << And a comment
shinohai: so far seems to be at least equal to the perl sins that only my confessor, mod6 knows of
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 02:57 phf: that would be a very gruesome science fiction narrative, if that was actually the case. a kind of strugatsky's roadside picnic :>
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 04:45 mircea_popescu: diana_coman "in next chapter" < add "the"
trinque: I admit to having wanted as little irc autism in my head as would make the thing go.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 03:28 asciilifeform: in other non-news, ben_vulpes yer ircbot thing dun work with znc. for the obvious reason of containing magicstring-expectation liquishit.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 01:44 esthlos: fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 03:09 phf: but then i can also understand the whole "back in my day" sentiment. common lisp certainly lets you write ~very sloppy~ code and get away with it :>
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760183 << you really ought not to touch c unless you can picture in yer head the asm , when reading it; and vice-versa ( for your particular iron )
asciilifeform: there is a 'non-malicious c', i suppose.
asciilifeform: there is not, however, a meaningful opposite.
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as maliciously-ugly c. i.e. what koch et al write.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 03:02 esthlos: elegant C exists, but the limits of the language the complexity it can handle without exploding into incomprehensibility.
asciilifeform: 'reamde'. but there is rumour that he had 0 to do with the text, let some idjit relative pen it
asciilifeform: i swallowed not only 1 but 2 pieces of rubbish from post-anathem stephenson and that was enuff.
phf: i suspect the spectacular failure of his sword project is what sent him downspiral
asciilifeform: 'anathem' is many things, and one of them is a what-if-naturalphilosophy-had-happened-in-monasteries.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 04:32 phf: well, glass bead game is not really derivative, but Anathem that we often mention here with ascii is
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760494 << 'anathem' is prolly the 1 'sf' item written in usa in past 20-30y worth taking home
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 02:57 esthlos: it seems specifically designed to reduce the intelligence of the programmer to what a manager can understand
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760177 << funny, im pretty sure this was in the logs. as a naggum quote.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760175 << musta started way the fuck up there then huh :D
mircea_popescu: diana_coman "in next chapter" < add "the"
mircea_popescu: without dispute it lasted for at least... hm, i think there's ten between berno and peter ?
phf: i sort of assumed (and that was sometimes topic of these derivative works) that mandate doesn't last more then a generation or two
mircea_popescu: i expect the way these generally work is, starved copywriter threw some shit together while hungover. since it was bought he put a little more work into it later on.
phf: well, glass bead game is not really derivative, but Anathem that we often mention here with ascii is
phf: but in all the derivative work soveirgnty is deliberate
mircea_popescu: in plain terms of the literary quality of the story, this approach seems to me weaker.
phf: it's not the case for canticle (where it is sort of accidental, in a sense that "everything's so fucked that nobody cares, but when they do we have Electric Light!")
a111: Logged on 2017-12-22 19:01 mircea_popescu: do they even give out tenures anymore ?
mircea_popescu: still, the whole reason for the (false, by the way) pretense to eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1757073 carried over to this very day was that "the trick worked for cluny", ten centuries ago. and so following.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the important part in the actual history is that the abbey was de facto sovereign ~deliberately~, set up that way by the duke on purpose. i dun recall exactly the us retcon, but it was accidental if memory serves ? which is already a reduction, in my view.
phf: saint asciilifeform right there http://www.uni-muenster.de/imperia/md/images/fruehmittelalter/mon-cl.jpg
mircea_popescu: there is A REASON "european civilisation" bla bla, and that reason is the remarkable stability introduced through unlikely means. a sort of humour.
mircea_popescu: but if you feel like the reading, about ~any history of the benedictine order in the early history of europe (say 10th and 11th centuries) should prove an informative read.
phf: one is an accumulation of knowledge on the subject of history in your head, the other one is a written book of that title, that one, if one were so inclined, could track down and read :)
mircea_popescu: i don't follow the distinction ?
mircea_popescu: (gaul was, in the estimation of the romans themselves, the better part of the empire, which is why most moved there)
mircea_popescu: phf the barbaric lands were slowly recivilised after the fall of the roman empire. the effort centered around this fortified monastery in gaul, and its satellites
mircea_popescu: "for lucre the briton..."
asciilifeform: presumably the folx who sailed, thought it'd amount to sumthing.
mircea_popescu: the ~only preoccupation of us aspiring writers since day 0
mircea_popescu: "what if the northern part of new world was actually important and like, events happened here and shit ?~!?!?"
mircea_popescu: btw, you are aware the canticle is just history-of-cluny with the serials (and most of the good stuff) shaved off ?
asciilifeform: for nao, will leave it up for another hr or so in case anyone wants to play.
asciilifeform: at some point i'ma put the thing on sumthing that ain't a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760270
mircea_popescu: the paste idea is pretty good, in that it takes the (unavoidable, btw) line issue away entirely.
asciilifeform: line dun fit much, is the prob.
mircea_popescu: make the width settable btw ?
mircea_popescu: there;s this whole pile of 2nd world "Cinema" made by 30second ad people.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-16 01:36 asciilifeform: in other near-term lulz, a 'pbot' is in the worx, so that folx can play with various input->output pairs in-chan
phf: asciilifeform: hey when you adjust the filters, can you make sure manual spacing still works?
asciilifeform: 'Q' is pretty useless in the bot, given what happens to whitespaces. i'ma have to adjust the filter.
mircea_popescu: and is it getting updated in step with the ffa publishings ?
asciilifeform: !A (the point of [someshit] is to output valid pcode like) [.1.2+#[=]]
asciilifeform did this deliberately, and then forgot -- but this is correct precedence
pehbot: phf: or rather 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000
phf: !A [or rather ].1"#[ ]000#
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski << add pehbot to the list plox.
mircea_popescu: phf i dun think there is any fundamental reason no
phf: err, in calc rather
phf: mircea_popescu: is there any reason there's no right shift in p? or there's some way to do it with what's there?
mircea_popescu: sure, i'll be happy to look up what the thing should be in preference of your doing it. lessee.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform other than the wrong control sequence / your utter ignoring of that whole mechanism, the bot is compliant, spits out one line per command, can sit forever.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 01:44 esthlos: fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest
mircea_popescu: they'll live.
ben_vulpes: freenode is the kludge; im not going to sink time into making *tronic bot that doesn't do auth itself because freenode doesn't like your host.
asciilifeform: phf: i came up with it in 2016 when wrote the orig, unpublished mpitronic 'p'
phf: well, . puts a zero and the 1-9A-F mutates the top, so you don't have to have state in the parser
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: somehow didn't click, at first, the depth to which it was a kludge, lol
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i am not going to take responsibility for your not reading the connection routines. it's plain as day the thing expects magic strings.