asciilifeform: the old sync behaviour is profoundly retarded tho, asciilifeform felt quite stupid for not having fixed it in the first yr of trb's life
trinque will be happy to start using the mainline version.
asciilifeform: trinque: indeed i marked it as experimental. did not know if, e.g., prb would shun the patched nodes, say
asciilifeform: ( i.e. does it have the sync retardation cure )
trinque: this is the node we were discussing, makefiles.vpatch + polarbeard
trinque: I do not have a hypothesis yet
trinque: nope, this was the deedbot node. each time it happens, there are many external connections, and each time a restart brings it back to the top.
trinque: I just fired a garden variety tx and it confirmed in the next block, 0.0005 fee
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/the-principal-agent-problem-or-how-america-went-away/ << Trilema - The principal-agent problem, or how America went away
asciilifeform finds the 'tx references outputs of old tx, rather than addrs' to be a profoundly trisomistic shitoshiism -- but we can come back to this at next 'trb-i' thread
asciilifeform: dunno, it was enuff for asciilifeform to say what was the eggog
trinque throws that on the TODOs
asciilifeform: ( and what was the generating node's ? )
asciilifeform: and, importantly -- what is the node's height ?
asciilifeform: or was this a process flow that worked 9000 times before, and otherwise virginal
asciilifeform: right, but is there any diff b/w how trinque fed it to 'other tool' and how he fed to this one
asciilifeform: i gotta ask : how didja generate the txturd
trinque: I don't see that he does anything to transaction parsing there
trinque: the same
asciilifeform: but with ^this patch ? or another ?
trinque: pressed to makefiles then patched polarbeard atop manually
asciilifeform: and http://btcbase.org/patches/polarbeard_add_sendrawtransaction_rpc is the press point ?
asciilifeform: trinque: plox to describe the experimental setup ( not pedantism for the sake of pedantism, this, it's important )
trinque: totally possible it's in the polarbearded portion. I'm digging
hanbot: mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2017/genetics-proposes-the-environment-disposes/ if it's still useful
trinque: hm, I have a transaction for which trb considers the CTransaction "vin" vector to be empty, but which clearly has an input.
asciilifeform: in other finds, unlike google, yandex indexes ~all of trilema
mircea_popescu: hmm, where the hell is the place where i say the father's responsibility to his daughter is to shove a pound of raw prime beef down her throat every day and naught else ?
a111: Logged on 2015-08-11 03:24 asciilifeform: 'ONE way of feeling infallible is not to keep a diary. Looking back through the diary I kept in 1940 and 1941 I find that I was usually wrong when it was possible to be wrong. Yet I was not so wrong as the Military Experts. Experts of various schools were telling us in 1939 that the Maginot Line was impregnable, and that the Russo-German Pact had put an end to Hitlers eastwards expansion; in early 1940 they were telling us
mircea_popescu: (steam engine existed because metalworking, and the metalworking involved exists because cannons. industrial revolution is the result of having stolen gunpowder.)
asciilifeform: but the point stands.
asciilifeform: fwiw the deep historicalcrackpots seem to think it wasn't even arabs, but the now-vanished aryans or whoever.
asciilifeform: the sad part re inventing things.
mircea_popescu: poor arabs, they invented all this shit, we ran with it with our inept ways and nearly fucked it into the ground
asciilifeform: *there'dve been
asciilifeform: if we wrote like arabs, there've been no controversy, i bet
mircea_popescu: this is back to the glyphs discussion all over again. "fix your printer!"
asciilifeform: whether this matters, is obviously arbitrary q.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re the 'guillotine neck vs mandible', if it ain't obvious, i'll spell it out ftr : bigendian nums look 'ffaistic' when hexdumped, i.e. correct . littleendian -- you gotta mentally flip'em.
asciilifeform: ( further reading for aficionados : http://www.yarchive.net/comp/endian.html , http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/bitfields.html )
mircea_popescu: how i regret it! every day i mourn it! they wounded me so very deeply, these idiots, with their idiotic misbehaviour! to the very core of my being i suffer for their failure to have ammounted to a hill of beans!
a111: Logged on 2018-01-25 02:09 mircea_popescu: this is like saying guillotining the neck rather than the mandible or the shoulderblades is completely arbitrary.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and most of the knob params are of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1775939 kind.
mircea_popescu: because afaik this is a whisperer's product and it THEREFORE carries no weight.
mircea_popescu: if there were a costless thing, by all means. but "between saving for six months to afford the thing i need and "buying" this other thing i don't need on easy rates i choose the former" though ?!
mircea_popescu: i do noit dispute it does cost, but so does this other isnanity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do it shift two and carry the last bit adequately ?
mod6: hanbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/t0piX/?raw=true << looks that way -- however, keep in mind the entire press did not finish, so hard to say that there couln't have been more if something else wouldn't have puked from hunks or whatever.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd like to see your algo for 2s-complement add/sub for a hypothetical box where sign bit is not the senior bit
mircea_popescu: the whole edifice is rotten. special order ? if they wanted this SHOULD HAVE CHANGED THE SIGN BIT POSITION OMFG
hanbot: the issue i had yest was *all* files got a copy named filename.orig
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't understand the argument. so you write left to right, so what does this say ?
mod6: ben_vulpes: yes, i found this one in the genesis: +(function(A){A.widget("ui.draggable",A.extend({},A.ui.mouse,{init:function(){var B=t
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'philosophically consistent' ( hey kurchatov! ) method is: little-endianism . but with it, you're stuck loading a whole parcel to test its sign bit ( i dun give a fuck, personally , on modern iron ) but -- unless yer an arab -- flipping words prior to printing , in the civilized style, left to right
mircea_popescu: because it rotates this way it is therefore not a valid encoding and case closed.
mircea_popescu: big endianism is the proposition of taking a pile of bits, and sorting them such that they representing larger powers of two are later than those representing smaller powers of two ; but only for chunks of bits of an arbitrary lengths ; chunks longer are ordered in ~the contrary fashion~, so ab is to be ordered as ba by this scheme, but abcd is to be ordered as badc.
mod6: what's weird is that it actually output that in the pressed file.
ben_vulpes: mod6: magic strings in the b64!
mircea_popescu: to make the full argument here in plain text :
mod6: hanbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HrKA1/?raw=true << Here is what I know, for now. There are some comments at the bottom.
asciilifeform: possibly worth reviewing why people even came up with bigendianism. it was partly from 'can test sign bit by looking at zeroth byte' , and partly the ben_vulpes ( from #trilema-mod6 log linked 2d ago ) problem -- 'let's store words in the order in which they get printed'
mircea_popescu: we could actually declare big endian notation to be WRONG, on the grounds it's inconsistent.
diana_coman will read; and then re-read
asciilifeform: ( i recommend to diana_coman and even to mircea_popescu to read the linked doc )
asciilifeform: and the effect is what is desired, namely the layout is exactly the same, independent of whether the code is compiled on a big-endian or little-endian machine. '
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i would right now like to, for a great piece i'm writing, link to "The choice of Ada as programming language for this implementation" specifically out of all http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/25/eucrypt-chapter-7-keccak-sponge/ because that's the sort of fine tuned context linkage i use. wut do ?
asciilifeform: ( other than to bake own iron with 1bit busses etc )
asciilifeform: i described the two known pills ( without endorsing a particular one ) against endianism. afaik there is not a third.
mircea_popescu: well in any case, there's a week to sort this mess out.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the short version is that the cpu is a physical object. this is an eternal and incurable headache for programmerz, yes
mircea_popescu: o hey, i hadn't noticed that they DIDNT LIQUIFY
asciilifeform: and yes the Bit_Order thing works, all kinds stuff would immediately liquify if it didn't
mircea_popescu: o good grief. must i include all the 0s ?
mircea_popescu: otherwise you could just check to see if 0F is smaller or larger than F0 obviously
diana_coman: but "In this section we will review the effect of the Bit_Order attribute definition clause on byte ordering. Briefly, it has no effect at all, but a detailed example will be helpful" this is gold
mircea_popescu: "here's the source ; check to see it is correct ; and here's how your builder will fuck it up for you by replacing constants"
asciilifeform: this is how the problem is traditionally solved.
asciilifeform: so in b) you either flip ( opposites ) endiannesses of all inputs, or not flip ( same endianness ).
asciilifeform: what you can do, is either a) operate bitwise, ffa-style. b) mandate an endianism for the data format. and since you know the endianism of the machine you're building on, in particular build, you know whether the machine's is opposite or same as the data's.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you can't 'check endianism', you gotta know from where the input came to know its endianism
diana_coman: I suppose the "patch" would be to check endianism at runtime and use the correct constants as it were; I ...still don't see why should I have endianism in there to start with
asciilifeform: this problem was a serious headache for the tcp/ip people, they solved it mircea_popescu-style, 'fuckyou and errything going over the wire is to be bigendian' (at the time, bigendianism dominated in 'serious' iron)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: all of this being said, if you can guarantee that the endianism of the input matches the endianism of the roundconstants -- you get correct answer. otherwise not.
asciilifeform: ( it was written, recall, not in empty space but for usg's contest. and 1 of the demands was 'not much slower than older hashes' )
asciilifeform: nao diana_coman knows why asciilifeform favours crackpotteries like numbertheoretical hashing etc.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: as your proggy is currently written, it is only sensitive to endianism mismatch between the inputs and the endianism of the machine on which your proggy was built ( i.e. in which the round constants are stored ). this is not curable at the program level .
diana_coman: b. input is a stream of bits; depending on whether you consider that big/little, it will go to different bits of the state
diana_coman: I know, I wrote them to not be
asciilifeform: before we start feeding asciilifeform's machine arch crackpotteries again ( he dun mind at all..) let's determine whether diana_coman actually has an endianism problem ?
mircea_popescu: but in practice, it turns out i get ffa and other things, because my friends love me even more than i love myself.
mircea_popescu: there will be a bit and not more. the possibility of " and a machine word = bus size" went away when they failed to implement it correctly.
mircea_popescu: fuck that. i do not set any knobs or put them in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the basic problem of 'how wide apart the rails on the railroad' doesn't go away , regardless of what you set the knobs to
mircea_popescu: it turns out, check this inept shit out, IT TURNS OUT that the ACTUAL REASON why "characters are not bytes" is actually and in point of fact BECAUSE BYTES ARENT ANYTHING.
mircea_popescu: i am of a very good mind to forbid non-concepts like "byte" in computing in the first place.
diana_coman: but I admit I am not 100% at ease that all the scramblings result in same thing; and moreover yes, I don't see the reason WHY it should be there
diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, that was my initial approach: as long as all of them are stored same endianness theoretically the bits fit correctly
diana_coman: I will just store them as array of bits
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman : if you don't byte-address, it does not matter whether you use constants, you are not endian-sensitive
diana_coman: asciilifeform, constants are stored as numbers on 64 bits at the moment
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the damned constants
diana_coman: next week's version of the sponge will be changed so that it works at bit level *everywhere*, idiotic constants included
diana_coman: the trouble with current version is that it's still messed up by endianness (the keccak constants are 64 bit *values* rather than bit streams)
diana_coman: phf, the newly published chapter 7 in eucrypt is the keccak sponge but it turns out that I'll still change it from inside out for next week
spyked: mircea_popescu: sent a couple of pingbacks to trilema, seems to have worked (though I don't see them, it might be that they're currently in the moderation queue). output and script at http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LZVEr/?raw=true lemme know if they show up anywhere in your wp
a111: Logged on 2018-01-25 06:00 hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1775981 >> can grab http://thewhet.net/testickle/mp-wp_genesis.vpatch & http://thewhet.net/testickle/mp-wp_genesis.vpatch.hanbot.sig ; pubkey's on about page if you need it.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1775994 << thanks hanbot. I'll grab this and try to press with it starting with version 99994. We'll see what happens. If all is well, then will also try version 99993.
mircea_popescu now gets to spend whole morning as best case scenario figuring out what the holy shit happened.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not proposing here that romania is somehow respectable or has a clue ; or that X random dork is my butt buddy now. all i'm saying is, "look yonder in the reservation for mongoloids of this particular orc breed, the pantsuit kid is getting his head punched in!"
diana_coman: I guess that might make him more sincere than the others but not in any discernible way a better option as far as I can see
diana_coman: ugh, that codrin stefanescu was at some point with glorious ideas ~="all I care about is that my family is doing well, the rest doesn't matter"
BingoBoingo: After the first, figured a short wait after the first trade would be a test of gossip speed. Curious if news of a gringo spreads and all. Or if they have a club, etc.
mircea_popescu: cool, make a post when they're all done.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Lining some more up over the weekend.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> here's one example : he calls it "the most serene republic of bitcoin", which was the style at the time. but in practice we omit the bitcoin part most often than not don't we. << If I recall there was a moment somewhere involving miner retardation where there was a discussion of the necessary subordination of Bitcoin to the Republic. Bitcoin's need of a republic is not necessarily reciprocated and all.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-25 00:36 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo : they're getting $7150, should cover whatever fees / maybe a little leftover. 0.63202778 goes on your books on the right side.
mircea_popescu: (the sheer ridoinculousness of this, where usg has managed to recrearte for it in 2018 the situation of thje ottoman empire in 1878 is something everyone's quite pointedly invited to meditate upon. PANTSUITISM DOES NOT WORK, and stop asking women. anything.)
a111: Logged on 2018-01-25 00:09 mircea_popescu: will eat my left foot will eat. legions do not cross the rubicon because the "emperor" knows full well they'll join the barbarians the next night.
mircea_popescu: i do not expect us army could actually come out of a field encounter with ro army as things stand right now ; but then again http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1775860
mircea_popescu: well sure. as you sit there right now typing at me, mosquitoes try to mosquitoize you, staph tries to staph you and so on.
asciilifeform: i meant attempted ukrization, rather than necessarily that particular result. but yes
mircea_popescu: but to be resolved by the group in question, neither i nor putin nor whatever papie mache in washington is going to decide this for them.
mircea_popescu: whether "a nation" is actually unfit to exist, rather a political figment than a substantial thing ; or on the contrary quite apt to live and thrive and with things yet to say ; or finally long exhausted and entirely dedicated by now to programatic laziness and the comfort seeking of senescence is an open problem
mircea_popescu: conceivably. there's a few options : ukraine went one way ; turkey went another way ; and greece went yet a third way.
mircea_popescu: understand how this works : usg comes to buy an apple for $1000 because it imagines it'll pay $1000 to itself and get an apple. then it turns out it can't take the $1000 and gets butthurt.
mircea_popescu: these days... heh.
mircea_popescu: anyway, fighting the wars of yesterday. used to be, in yonder prehistory before republican times, that secret service ~= victory.
mircea_popescu: shinohai basically it's "for as long as your secret service powered nonsense gets 2% of the vote, you can go jump in the lake". the (obviously transparent) implication being that secret services principally exist as usg influence agents these days, and are getting beheaded pretty much everywhere, from myanmar to galicia and from gdansk to bucharest.
mircea_popescu: (kovesi btw, is the http://trilema.com/in-case-you-were-wondering-where-all-the-worthless-nuland-drones-ended-up in ro, if it weren't obvious)
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "societatea civila" ie the 50k or so blue state worshipping orclets left in romania are being publicly humiliated these days, on live television : http://adevarul.ro/news/politica/codrin-Stefanescu-despre-surprizele-noul-guvern-psd-8_5a6852a0df52022f75d04ace/index.html
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1775981 >> can grab http://thewhet.net/testickle/mp-wp_genesis.vpatch & http://thewhet.net/testickle/mp-wp_genesis.vpatch.hanbot.sig ; pubkey's on about page if you need it.
mircea_popescu: in other fucking lulz of ~no consequence or import, http://www.jenniferalambert.com/
mircea_popescu: the fauna here gets preetty crazy
mod6: nice recent pics there mircea_popescu
mod6: is that tarball used to just unroll and go then?
mircea_popescu: mod6 if you mean the genesis for it, afaik not yet published
a111: Logged on 2018-01-21 19:23 hanbot: hey shinohai, what is wp-patch2.diff in the mp-wp hosted @ http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/wp-mp.tar.gz ? i see no sig, no...from where/whom is it?
mod6: ugh. man. this is what they call a 'hurts doughnut'
mircea_popescu: gotta pick the ice mod6 !
mod6: hanbot: i'd be happy to work with you to figure out whatever went wrong there.
mod6: i just about killed myself falling on some blackice in the driveway.
shinohai: My God, I think they are running out of marketing points.
ben_vulpes: they both worked this time, marvel of marvels
ben_vulpes: sometimes they even work!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes check this out, http://trilema.com/2017/the-sexy-problem-formalized/#comment-124338
a111: Logged on 2017-03-01 23:26 asciilifeform: what are ~all~ of the places where A has the ecstasy, but B does the laundry, where A!=B
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:22 mircea_popescu: basically nodes are the digital equivalent of women : men fuck them so the state can have babies. hurr durr, pill plox.
asciilifeform: iirc it recurred, as 'responsibility triangle' in later thread, and then once again as the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618589 mega-problem
ben_vulpes: well i'm terribly outta shape, will spell theses out better
asciilifeform: kept looking for a thesis, and didn't find
mircea_popescu: yes, i get it, but it's not what you say there!
ben_vulpes: why stop in the womb is what i'm driving at
mircea_popescu: this is like saying guillotining the neck rather than the mandible or the shoulderblades is completely arbitrary.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yer 'there's a way to go yet' link is borked
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/the-scourge-of-abortion-in-equalitarian-cultures << CH - The Scourge of Abortion in Equalitarian Cultures
mircea_popescu: well, at least the demand is explicitly present, better than nothing.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-24 03:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774906 << publish it sometime ; and also since on this trinque i'd like to use whatever wot.deedbot uses to spit the round svg graph to make a "trilema article links" thing. can i get it somewhere ?
ben_vulpes: phf: i too have reproduced your vdiff fix for the too many open files, log is at http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NQg1z/?raw=true
asciilifeform in the midst of fairly hefty conversion of '5000 log frags' to proper blogotronic text -- in re ffa . but ffa is in this respect substantially simpler item; it is not a mega-mystery how to do arithmetic.
mircea_popescu: all nice and good, especially if you're not the prince...
mircea_popescu: v is esentially found today as an enchanted castle surrounded by 5000 rakes upon which the prince is welcome to step, and once he stepped he can come to us and by the shape in his forehead we can describe the rake he stepped on.
mircea_popescu: but even if one could say "well,premature to write a v compendium, not yet even stable yet", the greater point remains. there's been a dispute of tabs and spaces in the logs. nowhere else. how would one know to look ? there's been a dispute of alphabets and trees and MANY Things that constitute the "Subtle" in the above "subtle chjanges each month".
asciilifeform: on one end phf , trinque on other
asciilifeform: but more generally the lipstick-on-pig incarnation of 'let's wrap gnupatch/gnudiff' is doomed to be retired
hanbot: not empty, contains v itself, but no other mp-wp files
mircea_popescu: so polarbeard made the patches "wrongly". fine, it happens to be true. how is it verified ?
hanbot: here's an example: i've made a genesis of mp-wp by vdiffing against an empty dir of the same name; this when pressed results in all desired files + copy of each file appended with ".orig". leaving aside that i don't even currently know why the fuck this happened, never seen it before in a press: i don't even know what to point out to ascertain that this is in fact NOT what is supposed to occur! if i was teaching a girl to do it, and she were the
mircea_popescu: amusingly, sorta how "born in the usa" turned into "made in us"
mircea_popescu: here's one example : he calls it "the most serene republic of bitcoin", which was the style at the time. but in practice we omit the bitcoin part most often than not don't we.
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/thread.html#161 << the earliest materials .
mircea_popescu: the item is actually years old, and in point of fact the semantic content of eg "v" has changed, if subtly, almost each month since then.
asciilifeform: hey hanbot , wanna write the Troo Vtronic Likbez ?
asciilifeform: and afaik the answ is nope
ben_vulpes: a genesis is just a vpatch against the null codebase, results in pure additions and antecedents of false throughout.
asciilifeform: http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system << item
hanbot: despite high volume of high quality lit on V, if i want a frank discussion of just it (technically rather'n politically, if we presume these can be separated, and esp re geneses rather'n patchworx), not crystal clear where i'm going to go --no single exhaustive repository, etc.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo : they're getting $7150, should cover whatever fees / maybe a little leftover. 0.63202778 goes on your books on the right side.
asciilifeform: there is not so much any more of 'called in general'. tho i do get occasional wardialer to this day.
mircea_popescu: well, actually, they risk being shaken down for not doing it.
asciilifeform: ( they traditionally make sure to )
mircea_popescu: the discussion here is carried statistically, not "exceptions". i haven't picked up a phone in decades.
asciilifeform: ( nao on other hand you couldn't simply roto-dial to him )
mircea_popescu closes the page and sets bozo bit on dijkstra.
mircea_popescu: "In what we denote as "primitive societies", the superstition that knowing someone's true name gives you magic power over him is not unusual. We are hardly less primitive: why do we persist here in answering the telephone with the most unhelpful "hello" instead of our name?" << motherfucker. because if we TELL the name instead of hello, we therefore have no resources left to verify whether the other party called us or just ca
mircea_popescu: will eat my left foot will eat. legions do not cross the rubicon because the "emperor" knows full well they'll join the barbarians the next night.
asciilifeform: it never quite made sense to me, from my admittedly distant and dark perch, why lizard hitler ~not~ yet dared. it ain't as if he'd have to eat the lead himself.
asciilifeform: i suspect that main enemy of mircea_popescu's weapons systems is tropical damp, rust. the other enemy seems to prefer 'soft' liquishit to actual action, for whatever reason.
mircea_popescu: any time they're ready, bring it.
mircea_popescu: either that or jerusalem. something.
mircea_popescu: as the saying goes, "and next year -- we launch rockets"
asciilifeform: shinohai: lulzy, but seems to be rerun ( or was there a piece recently entirely like this one, but with differently named muppet )
mircea_popescu: shinohai hey, i spent more on weapons systems than computers this year, for the first time since republic.
mircea_popescu: i deplore the archeologists of the future ; for whatever they do they shall be wrong.
asciilifeform likes to go to , watch , these parades, they are held every year not so far from where asciilifeform lives
mircea_popescu: the pic linked at some point, with the two sluts being fucked on bikes in the 60s, was remarkable specifically because those two guys might've been the yhoungest bike owners in history.
asciilifeform: the ones seen at parades -- old. but i suspect they dun much vroom, or otherwise the statistic would do its work neh
asciilifeform: and likewise all the things he undeplored
mircea_popescu: well, all the things he deplores are also old.
mircea_popescu: really ? where's the disconnect in this brain ?
mircea_popescu: do you picture him better going to academia in the same continous way, and faffing about "o, radical nvoelties" ?
lobbesbot: Logged on 2016-01-23 23:05:59: <diana_coman> I suppose on really short ones there isn't enough time for all the faffing about anyway; the io thing is 100secs in my books
mircea_popescu: "how to program if you cannot" is an absolutely fine soundbyte ; and correctly descriptive. but reading the stuff it is mouted in, i can't help but think maybe he meant something entirely else than what it self-evidently means.
mircea_popescu: other than saying so and starting a republic.
asciilifeform: but never afaik dared to state the entire case directly.
asciilifeform: with the degree of magnitude faster/more capacitous comp , it is ~stupidity~, in the form of complexicrud, that accumulates fatally. and , worst of all, dijkstra knew this
asciilifeform: as it is, there is very little for it in his article to stand up on
asciilifeform: difference in degree becomes a difference in kind. dijkstra imho oughta have mentioned the cable, to stand up his argument
mircea_popescu: (quite literal example, impedance is the EXACT name of resistance of medium to em )
asciilifeform: entirely different physical effects ( and exacerbated by the pitiful insulation of the period ) over the distance involved.
mircea_popescu: this is substantially fine ; but as presented it's a jumble of disjoints. resistance of the medium is in there, but not alone.
mircea_popescu: ie they expected a continuous process where n osuch thing was available ?
asciilifeform: the 'degrees of magnitude' item
asciilifeform: cable, at astonishing expense, was laid; and soon afterwards destroyed by overvoltaging. the operators had nfi that impedance exists, 'book larnin'', and were not satisfied with ~1 baud signal rate , upped the volts...
mircea_popescu: there is ~something~ there being parasitized by all the nonsense, but it is screamingly NOT what he tries to make it be.
asciilifeform: the cable was destroyed as a result of a very typically 'anglotard' chain of errors; entirely like the microcomp
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, his nonsensical discussion of radical novelties has one effect and one effect only : to drive the pantsuit narrative.
asciilifeform: imho better analogy is what happened to telegraphers. recall the fate of the first transatlantic cable ?
mircea_popescu: applying the "o noes, computer is much faster now" meme as if it meant something only drives home the nonsensical view that "computer is faster". which it fucking isn't, computer of today is well slower than computer of 1980.
mircea_popescu: one's in the winter and the other's in the ocean are the important considerations there.
mircea_popescu: there's no substantial difference "that has to be accounted for" between bridging the san francisco bay and bridging the mostly dry three metre wide obscure rivulet in ontario that are due to "hey, 3 degrees of magnitude distance ! 12 degrees of magnitude water debit!!" etcetera nonsense.
mircea_popescu: so, the differential of computing speed and movement speed are not directly comparable as he proposes.
mircea_popescu: for the record, i find it impossible to discern sense and nonsense in this dijkstra article, they're so tightly coupled together.
deedbot: asciilifeform rated Framedragger 1 << substantial contributions to phuctor; maintainer of http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/today logotron; possibly adrift in heathendom
asciilifeform: !!rate Framedragger 1 substantial contributions to phuctor; maintainer of http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/today logotron; possibly adrift in heathendom
a111: Logged on 2018-01-24 03:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774906 << publish it sometime ; and also since on this trinque i'd like to use whatever wot.deedbot uses to spit the round svg graph to make a "trilema article links" thing. can i get it somewhere ?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-24#1775106 << using graphviz, looks like there's a php wrapper sitting in "pear", might be able to be turned into a mp-wp plugin
mircea_popescu: in other news, diana_coman now using "faffing about" ; trinque prevails linguistically!