mod6: I'd note that we were a bit reluctant to do this to begin with -- hence the late entrance to the venture. I think we were hoping that others would step and run it, but alas, no one did.
mod6: Yeah, had discussions around it -- The first sentence in paragraph three kinda covers most of it.
mircea_popescu: in other news, ben_vulpes mod6 is there some discussion that was had in foundation board as to the wisdom/opportunity of commitment here ? are you basically trying to stretch capital or how exactly did the logic go ?
mircea_popescu: i take it the comments never got tested or anything ? anyways.
ben_vulpes: there please
ben_vulpes: i'd been drafting what turned into the charter from very nearly the very beginning; there's no arrangements or agreements that are not covered in the linked document.
mircea_popescu: speaking of that, hey phf how's the new vdiff coming along ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 04:43 mircea_popescu: now - wut of all of this ? maybe it was the same guy, i guess, maybe there was a conspiracy to reboot the server, i guess, maybe etcetera. i'm unconvinced nor do i see it matters any.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 04:59 trinque: appears to me the gents are getting things together for a clear, coherent offering.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-18#1784583 << yes, alright, but the problem implicit in all this is that one day customer comes in to complain his box was mysteriously rebooted and the response is "well actually we had a secret agreement to reboot once a year the boxes of people whose key ends in F, so..." ; ie very much a rehash of the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1599120 problem. because ultimately that's what the empir
hanbot: wrangling re buying fg from nsa, who handles suppliers, etc. punkman already there trying to silver-tongue them back into the velvety embrace of pantsuitlandia.
hanbot: mircea_popescu basically they made a constitution ( http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/A5yUZ/?raw=true / just moved to http://pizarroisp.net/?p=3 ) yesterday, there's no releasing of whatever private discussions prior. they're going to do some power testing on customer boxes as a courtesy. ben_vulpes is going to take a few boxes there maybe next month. BingoBoingo "unsnarled" an mp-wp of unknown provenance, sadly he can't use the genesis item yet. some
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 01:18 mod6: Also, all, the log for #pizarro is here: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 20:01 mod6: This is the moment when you affirm your support, or you do not, and throw your hat in the ring to take the reigns from mod6.
mircea_popescu: and this is the financial statement of why socialism is always and necessarily a scam, while at it.,
mircea_popescu: there's criteria.
mircea_popescu: ie, there is an unbroken tree of outright causes all the way to the prime mover, we don't say "this is a scam" because emotionally.
mircea_popescu: alternatively i might've not sold, and pursue him. this is the sort of option capital offers one -- you can always take your pick of two options in this vein. and if you can't, you've been swindled, not doing business.
mircea_popescu: but no, it wasn't a personal loan to bb, it was a loan to bb's corp which bb guaranteed ; but which guarantee i let lapse when i sold (ie, didn't transfer to you, ie, yo ucan't now ask him for 2 btc * 8k usd or w/e the exact numbers were)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's negotiated at some point. there's lengthy practice on the subject, of course.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:53 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: One thing I've learned people watching here... It turns out boys are the shy gender.
mod6: I may, indeed, need some education on basic finance. When it came to the .8 BTC owed to you, I never figured in anything like that. Are there terms that we were unaware of? Do you feel owed more than .8 BTC?
ben_vulpes: for a convertible note like that, how'd you go about setting the conversion rate? lots of yelling?
mod6: Alright, well, I think I might be missing something between the lines.
mod6: you figure, one in ten should make it, then you get your 5%.
mircea_popescu: because, obviously, if i lend to someone who has 10% chances of surviving, i want 10x my money so i can lend to ten of them and get a (slight, 5% sort of slight) profit.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the formula above stands : the capital (1 above) multiplied by the discount rate (1.05 above) multiplied by the survival odds (3 in the 33% survival rate example ; could as well be 10 in the 10% survival rate example, which iirc is what start-ups historically do)
mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, is why us real estate first time buyers pay 6% even though the fed rate is .75% ; and this is HOW fed rates drive monetary policy. see ?)
mircea_popescu: if his survival rate is 85%, he pays FOUR TIMES the discount rate.
mircea_popescu: mod6 consider it with numbers. if a guy's survival probability is 95% and the discount rate is 5%, then for every coin he pays to service his debt, HALF covers the 95% and the other half the actual opportunity cost.
mircea_popescu: nobody teaches these (basic, really, should be highschool) notions, and so people don't understand how humanity is, and was built. but bonds are a very sensitive actuarial tool, they react amplifiedly to death danger. whereas equity is a very sensitive to gains. and more generally, finance is worth studying altogether, it makes one smarter.
mod6: Alright, so as things in a start-up start to go south business-wise, for whatever reason, i.e. product sucks, whatever, the corresponding revenue/credit crunch makes it more and more difficult to service the debt.
mircea_popescu: the only possible solution is convertible debt, ie, if they strike it big, you have some sort of claim, for the risk you took. and that is why all start-up debt is really convertible bonds in practice.
mircea_popescu: so now ... the COST of carrying capital as debt goes up immensely as soon as survival rates drop very slightly. start-up are notoriously unsurvivey, and so their debt would cost so much as to ensure their failure.
mod6: mircea_popescu: yeah, in this sense -- 33% being the indemnity cost?
mircea_popescu: i'll catch it with teh rest of the logs.
ben_vulpes: (not to derail, but i've moved the Pizarro provisional charter to http://pizarroisp.net/?p=3 , comments actively sought from eg diana_coman hanbot mircea_popescu lobbes )
mircea_popescu: if i lend a btc to a guy, in a market where the discount rate (what AVERAGE capital returns are as per a, like the "cost of hotel rooms in this season/city) is 5% and whose survival rate is 33%
mircea_popescu: like, the bill for the use of a hotel room is made up of a) the opportunity cost (what that room would have made if not given to you but to another) and b) the indemnity cost (ie, what all you wore down, ruined, stained and destroyed in there)
mircea_popescu: mod6 let's do a side trip here and learn pricing of capital. so what would you say is included in the bill for the use of capital ?
mod6: Fair enough, I may have just looked at the debt to be paid to you at face value -- just a simple bill that needed to be paid, as opposed to 'bonds' or something else.
mircea_popescu: "you know what's better than tattoos ?" "hm ?" "scars" "but why ?" "at least they're genuine."
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:51 trinque: so reform. take your texan short fuse and lengthen, or what, wrong file, sorry.
mircea_popescu: anyway ; there's a lot of business experience in disparate fields that has to be handled, and often the handling drives unexpected results and so on. part and parcel of the problem is that bitcoin ain't consumer finance and few people have any notion of anything else in that whole wide field.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:50 diana_coman: mod6, a stake in something is never "debt only" really the way I see it; honestly, would you offer to take an "iou" while at the same time being totally unwilling to even give advice if asked?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784512 << it goes deeper than this. in a start-up, all debt is bonds and all bonds are convertible, because who the fuck would lend without equity implication to such a thing as a start-up
mircea_popescu: i am assuming so too. if the bill is balk-worthy we figure something out.
mod6: Any idea the cost, ballpark?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes forward it to phf directly ; phf sorry for the bondogle, send me the bill for the mailing ; danielpbarron invoice bbisp cc mod6 for the pile.
ben_vulpes: send them to me please, stand by for mailing address
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes phf currently has two dozen that either fly to you or back to dbp, so which is it ?
mod6: I expect quick turn around on questions -- As when emailing support, most queries can be responded to quickly. Others, maybe take 24-48 hours to have sorted.
mod6: If I don't know the answer straight off, will ask ben_vulpes or whomever needs to be asked.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes / mod6 do you want these ? (which one of you do i talk about re day to day bbisp bidniss ?). << you can talk to me any time about these things, or anything else really.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm more interested in the remaining supplies of fuckgoats; can i get a quote for 15 of them?
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:48 asciilifeform: lobbes: but do they ? the old serene republic, of venice, died to a man. and here we are, picking up the weapons
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784506 << on the strength of metaphor, though. mind you don't end up like the apprentice wizard, discovering with some surprise the spells don't work as immediately as he thought they do.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently i have to flag you as F on them ; for which we have to both be in. so at your leisure.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:30 a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 14:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in other news i registered #loper-os and #asciilifeform defensively ; whenever you feel like building them up say and i'll pass them along.
mircea_popescu: they're pretty fucking cool. apparently there's many species, BUT! most of them have a buzz haircut!
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:15 mod6: Upon the failure of bbisp, and Mr. Popescu's leaving TMSR, The Bitcoin Foundation, in a last-ditch effort to save the ISventure and the Republic (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783471), has chosen to try to determine how / if it can do this without any outside interference.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes / mod6 do you want these ? (which one of you do i talk about re day to day bbisp bidniss ?).
BingoBoingo: This is a point. During a solid chunk of my formative young adult years my brain was somewhat insulated from a lot of the fiat world crap through having been preserved in cosmoline. And by cosmoline I mean cheap vodka.
mircea_popescu: so nsa doesn't in this sense have the same sort of problem. it's a crisis of faith not of management.
mircea_popescu: there's a fundamental difference there bb, in that isp is a thing whereas most of what we're making is noit a thing. making a thing requires following the recipe, whereas making not-yet-a-thing is basically figuring out a recipe.
BingoBoingo: Boy feelings are complicated and mircea_popescu has well earned another rum and girlie fueled retirement or semi-retirement. Wat do indeed?
BingoBoingo: temperment problem in asciilifeform resisting direction or a middle manager's eyes glossing over and slacking the discipline after glimpses of tech that isn't shit.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 14:06 mircea_popescu: the slowest release schedule in the world and all the rest of the stuff people don't say because they're affraid i might crack them one if they did say it certainly aren't driving anything into anything, rite. because we're playing Alf's Beginner Transaction Psychopathology and it's all explained in there in the inside of the top of the box!
a111: Logged on 2018-02-11 14:05 mircea_popescu: the reason i'm cutting you out is because we have very poor fit, i'm a "provide general guidance and hangings" sort of manager and you evidently need a mommy, to check whether you packed your lunch and to ask if you need to pee every so often. should you find one you can certainly thrive, but you've not found her in me is all.
BingoBoingo: It seems a lot like a case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-11#1783251 spread out over a longer timeline. Begun when the blades spun slower and when http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-18#1784662 along with flashes of marvelous alien tech could staunch the sating. Here as in BBIsp there is fanaticism for the cause in spades. An open question is whether more involved middle management could improve alf's tasking or is there going to be a
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/06b-dining-in-troglodyte-lands.html << The Tar Pit - How to (not) dine in troglodyte lands in N very simple steps
mircea_popescu: otherwise, i think it's sufficiently self-obvious that nobody wants more crappy items. we've enough of those around to last a century. but i also won't sit still while being railroaded into a false choice between crappy items and never items ; if for no other reason then because too many people depend on me being at least slightly smarter than that.
mircea_popescu: what fucking short order, the end of a five year plan is nigh on in sight! by a cool account he's not gotten better at it, arguably he's even gotten worse at it, wut the everloving fuck do ?! tell me, and make sense while doing the telling!
mircea_popescu: originally i was going to just call it off, have it liquidated and so on. because yes eventually it has to come to this, nsa was started on the premise that "here is a talented engineer who evidently has little ability to take direction or manage himself, but which we're construing as due to poor prior context and expect will remedy itself, by itself, in short order".
mircea_popescu: so no, how about we don't discuss the random nonsense some 9yo captive inside stan would in his panicked despair have us rather occupy ourselves with. instead, exactly in trinque's practical terms : what the fuck am i going to do with a s.nsa resting on the clavicle of a grown man with 9yo shoulders!
mircea_popescu: the slowest release schedule in the world and all the rest of the stuff people don't say because they're affraid i might crack them one if they did say it certainly aren't driving anything into anything, rite. because we're playing Alf's Beginner Transaction Psychopathology and it's all explained in there in the inside of the top of the box!
mircea_popescu: suffice to point out that evidently enough the whole binome as described is adaptive rather than designed. and it MUST be examined, and it must be repaired, rather than indulging in just as childish deflection. o noes, ~i~ of all people want to drive s.nsa into a wall, fancy that wonder!
mircea_popescu: i don't, for the record, think there's anything even vaguely like malice involved. i think it's simply ambered childishness, which he has managed to preserve unexamined so long into his adult life because he's never before found himself among people intelligent enough to force him to examine it. the signs of this are ubiquitous and i won't belabour,
mircea_popescu: the other issue is that the exacting standards part of the binome aren't exacting to a ~rational~ standard, they're exacting to a psychogenic standard. he's perfectly willing to take steps to alienproof his sub because he's seen alien pirates board a sub in a B movie once, that's the standard, what he can ~imagine~ occuring, not so much what he has good reason to believe may occur.
mircea_popescu: to him, it's not worth to take three seconds of his own time to think $random item through ; but to him it is also worth taking three days of another man's time (and often enough, the misfortunate other man is he himself!) to do nothing in particular with them.
mircea_popescu: think of it, the ~same guy~ who's saying ridiculous, and ridiculously unexamined things about boats, the http protocol and so on is also the same man willing to have mod6 do days' worth of testing with items swapped around to establish nothing in particular.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 05:39 trinque: can say "time manage" and etc but the philosophical structure in his head will not permit works with ideological inconsistency to ship
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-18#1784630 << i think this isn't a satisfactory description of the issue for two reasons. one is that the man doesn't have merely very exacting standards, but a binome of which half is exacting standards and the other half is looser than a crack whore's butthole.
mod6: However, each man gets to decide if he wants to partake in the Republic. Mr. Popescu always said he would eventually leave. And I respect that. Just wish it wasn't in anger.
hanbot: trinque true. i suppose some things can't be learned without an actual beating, delivered by an actual expert whisk. i don't really know to jam it into the sick skull, i guess. and no harm done, i've always appreciated your directness.
mod6: That we did. And I for one, would love to see Mr. Popescu to come back and be the father to the republic.
trinque: probably plenty of ways to improve their process from here, yet the thing was dead in the water, republic declared dead without hosting, and some folks came together against that.
trinque: if someone wants asciilifeform's shares they are apparently for sale; they were offered to me
trinque: hanbot: I apologize for snapping at you. I think ben_vulpes and mod6 are doing a great thing coming in to try and save the project.
hanbot: mod6 at some point many years ago i had a tracker to keep track of my trackers. hang in there.
mod6: Alright then. It'll be really helpful I think for all of us. I, for one, literally have like 69000 things to keep up with these days.
trinque: autodidacticism has been thoroughly trashed in the logs
mod6: hanbot: I can't speak for asciilifeform and make him state things. But, perhaps if we kept a public calendar of what is happening when, might give the public some comfort that tasks are getting completed on time.
mod6: I would like to see asciilifeform and mircea_popescu somehow come back to the table and continue their very important work together.
mod6: Furthermore, I may be the only investor left in S.NSA, and I would very much like to see it continue.
mod6: hanbot: i don't expect anyones "blind spots" or "deficiantcies" to go away over night. we'll work with him to make sure things happen they way they need to do so, when they need to do so.
trinque: can say "time manage" and etc but the philosophical structure in his head will not permit works with ideological inconsistency to ship
mod6: <+trinque> gotta also admit that the enemy will not wait for you to be done with your superweapon. << also totally true.
trinque: because he's the type that apparently cannot dishonor himself by e.g. shipping a less-than-alf fuckgoats
hanbot: mod6 i know the strife is unpleasant, and i admire your drive to right things. but there's an actual extant problem here, which, if merely forgiven, lends nothing to the notion the problem will cease.
mod6: After the first "Hey, we're getting FGs for xmas!" And then it didn't come, for like 2 more xmas's... i could have simply negrated him.
trinque: gotta also admit that the enemy will not wait for you to be done with your superweapon.
mod6: I mean look, here's an example: I waited like nearly 4 years for an FG. But he delivered, and it works. It's a marvel, this FG. I think the fact that we have it, and it works, is more important than how long it took to realize.
mod6: I have too, and I recently read the entire thread on diana_coman's blog too. The whole thing. I know shortcomings have impacted lots of things. He's not the only one guitly of that. And even though I don't excuse anyones failures, I'm going to forgive. We've gained more than we've lost. In my estimation.
trinque: he skitters sideways when certain triggers are hit and changes the subject
mod6: Because he said he would. And asciilifeform has done a lot for us over the years. Invaluable things. Dispite, failures. I've failed too, hopefully I'm getting better also.
mod6: I don't think so at all. His role is outlined in the drafted document we posted above.
hanbot: is the matter of what's going to be done re asciilifeform's current...stance also private?
mod6: I guess I'll also add this: I agree that logging is very important. But lately, in here, emotions have been running high. And while trying to figure out the details, I need to focus and not read through hundreds of lines of cross talk and bickering.
mod6: Quite frankly, and I hope BB doesn't mind me saying so, we kinda needed to even talk him into it. I think he was in quite a state of dismay at the whole thing. And I find it appropriate that we did that.
mod6: Things like, what the bills were, where they need to be sent, who would do what. This kind of thing.
mod6: I wanted to give us some space to find out the details, to discuss everything involved. I for one, even having been in #trilema the entire time, and even having read BB's blog posts about BBISP, I still wanted to give BB the space to discuss with us all the details.
hanbot: trinque i'm not asking to be told anything. i'm asking why there were "discussions" over the course of several days that haven't been made public. this isn't to gripe at anyone, this is an attempt to preserve what's possibly the most useful tool of the republic, i.e. logging.
trinque: I see pointless sniping and nothing further.
trinque: earlier diana_coman's bitching they didn't define the day-old business venture. now you're bitching they didn't tell you why they chose that definition, a few hours later.
hanbot: not at all (where's that?). the question is where's the discussion that brought them to the document published today, and if that discussion's private, why?
trinque: so leaving alf aside, when two folks dive on this boondoggle of a business venture to right it, we're going to suspect their methods and forget their long reputations?
a111: Logged on 2018-02-14 20:34 mod6: jurov: We're working out the details on that. Good question though.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 15:22 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: The new management is working out the details for their clean takeover of the remains of BBISP as a new venture. I defer the revelation of details to management.
hanbot: trinque i specifically mean the content of i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784462 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784415 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1784065
hanbot: sure, fine logs starting today. what were the "discussions" variously mentioned, that led to this point? what, if anything, has been the resolution of the problem in which 50% of the ownership refuses to meet own deadlines?
trinque: I'd say any judgment of how they're doing (at what, a day in?) is premature.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-18 04:41 hanbot: n stands: why are they not logged?
hanbot: n stands: why are they not logged?
hanbot: uld've extended to asciilifeform as well, but after a week + of stubborn refusal to admit wrongdoing or show any signs of work towards avoiding said wrongdoing in the future, i'd be acting ---very irresponsibly--- if i let my admiration of the man and his past work (or my dislike of the discord lately) obfuscate a serious, present, problem. anyway, looking forward to reading the communications, assuming those are still coming. if not, the questio
hanbot: <ben_vulpes> attn all, here's a draft of the new articles of organization for what was BISP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/A5yUZ/?raw=true excoriate away << cool, thanks for posting. so: i would very much like to support bbisp/Pizarro, and I think it's great the foundation picked this up. while i think the particulars will likely prove challenging, i would have no problem putting faith, time, etc behind mod6 and ben_vulpes. a few weeks ago, that wo
mod6: Sure, feel free to stop into #pizarro or follow along in the logs!
asciilifeform: i did not break tooth today; but on other hand the city finally showed up to fix the gas leak i reported 3d ago , and they have dug a moat around my car, on sides, to do it...
BingoBoingo: From the story it sounded worse than the picture I sent her looked. I will see if I can get pictures. of the repair. Damned ice cream cones full of dulche de leche with a hard chocolate shell.
mod6: Ah. Yea maybe they can fix.
mod6: That's the worst.
mod6: Pizarro, The Republican ISP's offical channel is now: #pizarro
asciilifeform: i'ma play in the snow, ben_vulpes , also bbl.
ben_vulpes to waltz around in the sun for a few minutes, will digest comments async
ben_vulpes: i would also like to deposit these funds with a non-involved individual to seal in blood the capitalization of this entity
ben_vulpes: attn all, here's a draft of the new articles of organization for what was BISP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/A5yUZ/?raw=true excoriate away
BingoBoingo: Pretty girls and women change in the multi bed mixed gender rooms. Boys and fat chicks change in the bathrooms.
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, ahahah; ftr though that is ...true from all my experience as it is, yes << Living in the hostel, you observe this a lot.
trinque: this thing doesn't need any more chatter; let the parties working work, and see what comes of it.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is apparently determined to maliciously run s.nsa into the ground, and pin the corpse on asciilifeform .
lobbes: Dick-pulling aside, it seems there is Schism 2.0 happening (which I think is fucking retarded but okay). Are there going to be two republics now or wat? This goes beyond a mere ISP, hence hard to enumerate the future.
mod6: Stand-by, we're trying to get that communicaiton out now. I'm reading the things.
mod6: This is the moment when you affirm your support, or you do not, and throw your hat in the ring to take the reigns from mod6.
mod6: But I'll not sit by and watch a bunch of in-fighting embarrass all the hardwork and effort we've put in. I'd rather burn out, than fade away.
mod6: I'll repeat myself: If you want a republic to exist, and you believe the foundation to be a good thing, support us. I've given seven years. Maybe it's time for someone who knows better than ole mod6.
diana_coman: mod6, don't take this the wrong way
trinque: asciilifeform: so then read the last 10-15 lines and try to see what trinque's gesturing at
mod6: <+trinque> I don't think now's the time for that. lest rustled jimmies, not more. << Ok, well let me know if you want to. I'm ready to step down and take my leave of all of this.
trinque: asciilifeform: see how I told you one thing, and you tried to misdirect me with another? or no?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: One thing I've learned people watching here... It turns out boys are the shy gender.
trinque: holy shit, the sudden influx of offers
asciilifeform: ( then possibly mp&friends would be more interested in a subscription..)
trinque: I don't think now's the time for that. lest rustled jimmies, not more.
trinque: so reform. take your texan short fuse and lengthen, or what, wrong file, sorry.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, the only way I can follow that is as purely ideal "republic as a notion" etc. perhaps true but not particularly... effective let's say
asciilifeform: trinque: the flavour of 'emo' is unfortunate, but i for instance have an oath to mp that i have not been released from. and is the only reason i am still tuned in. the disposition of snsa after asciilifeform's pending anathemization , is a strictly practical matter, rather than 'pulled dick' thread.
diana_coman: mod6, a stake in something is never "debt only" really the way I see it; honestly, would you offer to take an "iou" while at the same time being totally unwilling to even give advice if asked?
mod6: trinque: would you like to take over my spot as Co-Chairman to the Bitcoin Foundation?
asciilifeform: lobbes: but do they ? the old serene republic, of venice, died to a man. and here we are, picking up the weapons
lobbes: they will die with last man
asciilifeform: shinohai: one strength of the republic is that it will continue to exist even if there is only 1 d00d left, even in a burning tank where only the gun still worx.
shinohai: I admit to have suffered dejection in past couple of days which had me questioning the future of Republic, but honestly, what else is there?
asciilifeform: lobbes: my work will continue to be published in the familiar place where it was published previously. not very hard to find. and folx who wish to discuss it, will be able to do so in my 'castle' ( #loper-os if mp amicably un-squats the fleanode login; otherwise a new one, to-be-announced )
diana_coman: fwiw mod6 how do you then square "could not be bothered with" with -> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-11#1783243 ;it's one thing to say "I don't want to hold your hand" and another thing to say "I don't want to have anything to do with you"
asciilifeform: diana_coman: a painfully pedantic description of the new isp will be published. and available for commentary.
diana_coman: mod6, yes, mommy is one thing but not the only thing
mod6: diana_coman: All of this is in the logs, and on trilema "Don't have time to be a mommy", et. al.
diana_coman: as lobbes points out there are valuable resources in the forum, even if now reduced; not using them looks weird let's say
asciilifeform: lobbes: i have enough respect for mircea_popescu to respect his decisions; when he does not want to coauthor with somebody, there is no reason why he oughta have to. and so when he asks for asciilifeform's resignation as snsa cto, i will give it to him.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 06:48 hanbot: speaking of that wednesday, it's rather incredible how little discussion there is on the matter, especially considering http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-10#1783160
mod6: If the notion, ``there is no future for the republic without an isp'' (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783471) holds true, and mircea_popescu, hanbot, and diana_coman wish to see the Republic continue, we should all be putting aside differences to further the Republic.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 19:17 mod6: The thought here was that the ISP venture was too much trouble for Mr. P. to be bothrered with, so we thought we'd do actually what he would have wanted: Stepped up to run it ourselves. The Bitcoin Foundation has taken many lumps over the years for not having spent any of the endowment bestowed upon it. We thought this is the perfect opportunity to show that we can be effective.
mod6: On a personal note, regarding "patience and support", I want to let it be known that it will be very hard if not impossible to make the ISP venture a success without the support of specficially, mircea_popescu, hanbot, diana_coman - and ``Minigame''. We need your business here.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 14:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in other news i registered #loper-os and #asciilifeform defensively ; whenever you feel like building them up say and i'll pass them along.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu i would like http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552625 << these -- back plox.
ben_vulpes: great. here's my address http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/couvJ/?raw=true when can you get the box to me?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo has even prepared ( not quite yet unveiled however ) a public www ; with prices and other useful info.
trinque has spoken to ben_vulpes about having a box on the first provisioning run
asciilifeform: trinque: might you be interested in becoming the first subscriber ?
mod6: So, we're working on it. And I am seriously discouraged by the line of commentary in here, as opposed to support.
mod6: We don't have all of the details sorted out as of yet -- and keep in mind it has been TWO DAYS, since we even contemplated this. TWO DAYS.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, at the same time, took it upon himself to go and repair the item mp has proclaimed that he had broken, at own labour and (considerable) expense.
mod6: The thought here was that the ISP venture was too much trouble for Mr. P. to be bothrered with, so we thought we'd do actually what he would have wanted: Stepped up to run it ourselves. The Bitcoin Foundation has taken many lumps over the years for not having spent any of the endowment bestowed upon it. We thought this is the perfect opportunity to show that we can be effective.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-13 06:48 hanbot: speaking of that wednesday, it's rather incredible how little discussion there is on the matter, especially considering http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-10#1783160
mod6: Upon the failure of bbisp, and Mr. Popescu's leaving TMSR, The Bitcoin Foundation, in a last-ditch effort to save the ISventure and the Republic (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-13#1783471), has chosen to try to determine how / if it can do this without any outside interference.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:41 mircea_popescu: he's the executed kind.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 21:41 mircea_popescu: nah, there's the retiring kind and the executed kind of admiral.
mod6: <+hanbot> meanwhile, mod6 and ben_vulpes : why are the "discussions" etc re bbisp not in the logs? is there some benefit in their being private, contrary to umpteen years of the benefits of public discussion in said logs? << Hi hanbot. Let me try to answer here.
asciilifeform: if you ask the d00d, i fail at moar or less errything, lol
trinque: I don't know, don't like to speak for people either.
asciilifeform: trinque: i enjoyed having mp as a coauthor, making phuctor, FG, various other pieces. but i cannot give the man what he wants, at the rate at which he wants it, this is unfortunate but fact.
asciilifeform: ready to be anathemized with asciilifeform , trinque ?
trinque: I am not tarnishing my reputation by the wallet operating as anything other than a mechanism.
trinque: there is no stripping-of-wallet implemented
trinque: the thing works here, in pm, w/e
asciilifeform: hanbot: i do not enjoy to overstay my welcome where not wanted. mp and you invited me in 2013 to the party, can just as rightfully uninvite .
asciilifeform: with this in mind : ben_vulpes + mod6 : when you reimburse me this week please do not make use of trinque's walletron. trinque is quite dear to me but it is my current understanding that my trinquewallet will cease to function when i am formally anathemized , and i do not want any coin to become trapped in it.
asciilifeform: hanbot: understand that one of the things i ~like~ about mp, is that he doesn't slide back on things. so hole or no hole , it is what it is.
hanbot: meanwhile, mod6 and ben_vulpes : why are the "discussions" etc re bbisp not in the logs? is there some benefit in their being private, contrary to umpteen years of the benefits of public discussion in said logs?
hanbot: sten. it's not a pretty place, and i have no idea why you'd want to live there.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784373 >> part and parcel of the problem of people on tilt is that they are quite convinced they're not. asciilifeform : you are digging yourself ever-deeper into a hole for the sake of your having missed your own deadline. you're of course welcome to ignore me and everyone else --trying to help you out-- (esp. trinque's imo excellent "assessment" this morning), thereby joining the ranks of those who wouldn't li
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: The new management is working out the details for their clean takeover of the remains of BBISP as a new venture. I defer the revelation of details to management.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 04:55 asciilifeform: it so happens that asciilifeform has purchased a 50% stake in bisp. and specifically with one condition: that mircea_popescu (named, concretely) will not be a back-seat driver there.
trinque: men gotta be compelled by the truth, and men holding same are wasting their life if they don't use truth to compel
trinque ftr likes asciilifeform very much, but that's his assessment of the sticky thing
trinque: and if this is resisted for what appear to be psychological reasons, the fury is well spent.
trinque: otherwise I'd say the guy who spent the most time writing an OS is probably the guy to assess hardware.
trinque: if you thought it was unneeded or harmful to compile a list of hardware (not just that you have, but that could be desirable) for bisp, that'd be one thing, and the proper move is to respond with that
trinque: as for submission, in my house truth is the thing submitted to, and it so happens that most of the time I hold it.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-17 05:57 asciilifeform: also goddammit why so slow, mircea_popescu , i'm waiting for the 'de-lording' bullet, staying up past bedtime
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-17#1784369 << gotta say, the man wants an ISP from causes, and asked you for a specific item also from causes.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> so BingoBoingo finally got his bank acct huh ! << The speed here...
mircea_popescu: this in general, leaving aside the apparent situation whereby in my particular case your bonds are actually ~worthless, so it's not even clear how it'd solute your risk at all.
mircea_popescu: because it's somewhat common. your potential customer is necessarily underwriting your counterparty risk. you have unclear capital structure and unpublished "commitments to each other" ; neither of these is of the nature of reducing the cost of that counterparty risk.
mircea_popescu: does it matter to you how well capitalised the parker-storager is ?
ben_vulpes astonished mircea_popescu remembered the brand this time
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do you still own the corvette ?
ben_vulpes: this is the "potential customer" underwriting bonds?
mircea_popescu: aaanyway. this whole "potential subscribers" is easily enough said, but you've apparently created quite a credit crunch for the item. because "well, let's send bbisp a box" "what if they go under ?" "i guess we underwrite some bonds" "but they DONT WANT your bonds!" "um..."
mircea_popescu: this is probably the problem.
asciilifeform: and while i have the microphone, will say : i'ma carry on exactly same work after properly proclaimed heretic and excommunicated by mircea_popescu , as prior.
asciilifeform: at any rate i'ma to bed. and if mircea_popescu wants to subscribe a slot (or moar) in bisp, oughta say; and his biznis is appreciated; if not -- other potential subscribers invited to solicit for ben_vulpes's courier service.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i like to see folx finish what they start, eh
mircea_popescu: what, there's no life after lordship ?
asciilifeform: can you picture stalin 'eh go to bed, what's the hurry' lol
mircea_popescu: eh, go to bed, what's the hurry.
asciilifeform: also goddammit why so slow, mircea_popescu , i'm waiting for the 'de-lording' bullet, staying up past bedtime
mircea_popescu: lobbes i dunno that submission has anything to do with anything, tbh. the principal issue is that he fucked up, again, in the same way, and is sticking to this nopenopenopenope line.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: see also http://cascadianhacker.com/the-american-consumer-in-two-photos
mircea_popescu: who the fuck thinks up this shit.