mod6: ok, so that would solve some of the 'hairyness'. a True Vpatch ~MUST~ edit chronicle.txt.
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu proposed once an algo where , for a patch to count as a Troo Patch, it must modify a chronicle.txt (along these lines)
trinque: I don't have a pet proposal to solve it, but it's definitely never getting solved without more eyes on that the problem exists
phf: like i said, i understand the problem, i'm not sure of the solution, because ~i~ have not attempted to tackle it. for example i suspect that the manifest might be problem specific, i.e. what you put there is informed by the shape of the tree you're trying to create.
trinque: aside the two above, what's been done in trb is to include 1 and 2 in patch 3; the bulk of the patch is lifted into the thing
phf: mod6: there's that too :)
phf: trinque: i'm describing how things are right now, how things were, and what informs my and mod6 opinions on the subject. uncertainty about past behaviors in my opinion tends to influence uncertainty about future solutions
trinque: phf: there are cases where two separate edits to separate files are both needed as antecedents to yet a 3rd patch, which edits possibly neither of them.
trinque: then perhaps I'm wrong. I'm trying to present a problem to you by way of examples and it's not taking.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-30 22:09 mod6: was thinking, that if we changed up the parameterization of v, could maybe resolve the multiple leaves thing. imagine http://www.mod6.net/sps2_dag.png without the 'j.vpathch', if one wanted to press both trees, maybe could tell v to : `./v.pl p v outputdir i.vpatch d.vpatch`
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791427 << i proposed this at one point, and mircea_popescu (imho correctly) barfed, and one of the reasons was that it makes pressing irreversible (or at least reverse-walking becomes np-hard)
phf: trinque: there's no "returning to", original behavior is "press everything that falls from under this head"
trinque: if returning to "press everything, don't specify HEAD" I don't see that there can be multiple lines of history (branches)
trinque: with present V behavior, some file has to always be present as an antecedent for any coherent line of history (there could be many)
trinque: phf: where are you at on the practical problem of "trinque wants to redo portage in V" and I don't want people giving me patches that include unrelated ebuilds?
phf: yeah, you guys "bugginess", this is the fundamental property of how v was described and how it was implemented
asciilifeform: but quite definitely The Wrong Thing
trinque: lolk then
mod6: it used to be in my V 99994 i would just blindly press all of the leaves, but that's was rejected as not the right thing. but with the good changes that 99993 brings in, could let the user choose at press time. just food for thought.
phf: trinque: that was the behavior of v all along!
trinque: the designated head matters along the walk of one path, but then you get all of adjacent ones?
trinque: hm. I'd have to ponder a while to see what's lost. it's unclear what the purpose of designating a press head would be in that scenario
mod6: what if ole mod6 put in a special flag for that "gimme-all-leaves" instead of the listing of all?
mod6: and if not, then user just selects one leaf, as is today. i dunno, would need some thought. i may be missing the mark here too.
mod6: then would press both trees
mod6: was thinking, that if we changed up the parameterization of v, could maybe resolve the multiple leaves thing. imagine http://www.mod6.net/sps2_dag.png without the 'j.vpathch', if one wanted to press both trees, maybe could tell v to : `./v.pl p v outputdir i.vpatch d.vpatch`
mod6: i've been thinking about the manifest thing for a while... and I'm not sure about it... seems like it'd get hairy. and would require versioning in and of itself. however, if we had a sample to look at, might be easier for me to grok.
phf: though a manifest could be used as a kind of assert during press, as long as it doesn't rely on filenames. (i believe the idea of putting antecedent vpatch's hashes into manifest floated around)
mod6: I do have seals for these signed with my vpatch-testing key... but you can just sign them with your junk key if you wanna play around
phf: mod6: would you mind uploading that test tree somewhere? i want to throw it at btcbase. fwiw, vpatch/vdiff doesn't care about press tree, as long as the hashes work out in the end
mod6: Think I mis-typed the above too: *like no pressing of descendants if all antecedents are ~NOT~ present in the current tree*
mod6: files are in the second link above if curious
mod6: Became necessary when testing for things like multiple roots, mulitple leaves; and have automation to break the tree into parts so I can ensure of other things, like no pressing of descendants if all antecedents are present in the current tree.
mod6: I made a test vpatch set for v related development. Super helpful. Allows me to create test scenarios and automate them, ensuring that I'm not regressing from version to version.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-30 20:47 phf: the retrospectively unpleasant part of this approach is patching vdiff's C, which, after writing a bunch of Ada, is torture. i believe diana_coman had similar experience
mircea_popescu: exactly how she ended up chained to a tree in the swamp, also.
phf: the retrospectively unpleasant part of this approach is patching vdiff's C, which, after writing a bunch of Ada, is torture. i believe diana_coman had similar experience
phf: that's the thinking
mod6: then the new vpatches to clobber the targets can be patched in, one at a time. making test cases for each, simpler, and probalby more effective.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
mod6: fwiw, I think minus other targets, such as the empty dir thing, it's probably going to be easier to regresion test without changes for those targets -- basically having a 1:1 mapping of the old to new.
mircea_popescu: and none of the three is the "wrong" answer ; just, they lead down different paths and gotta pick something to talk about.
mircea_popescu: i have no issue with it, can be added now without any serious loss. the only thing not clear to me is whether you don't want to add it, can't add it yet or haven't gotten around to adding it yet.
phf: i grok that point; the things are simply not there. i've barely arrived to where i have a working replacement for what we already have on top of which further work can be built. i guess the only reason this one is contentious is because it would've worked better if done upfront.
mircea_popescu: the reason the list of firm targets doesn't include the soft "well, i'm curious what he does about X" is precisely because... how hard am i gonna push it ? that's kinda the constraint, on one hand death by vagueness & ambiguity, on the other death by insufferable overbearingness.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "qntra : under the deluge of tit bits, website-exchanges btc price keeps falling" lmao << :D
mircea_popescu: phf i'm not saying you're the badman, or that it was necessarily plainly communicated. but, for what it's worth, that's what it was there.
phf: i'm not even through the list of target items yet, any one of them can be picked up as an example of "didn't bother to implement any solution for"
a111: Logged on 2017-12-14 22:49 mircea_popescu: phf so basically this is cropping down nicely after all. proper vpatch (fixing mod6 's bane, the empty dir thing) + proper vdiff (hash-based preprocessing of rename/move + proper use of @@...@@ + keccak hashing).
phf: mircea_popescu: the conversation from which you quote the money shot happens in the context of file renames, the part where you call upon me quotes keccak specifically, elsewhere you re-enumerate the list of what looks like target items, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-14#1751799
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-30 18:36 mircea_popescu: reason i even did things in this manner is because it's not clear to me why it was contentious or whether the contention was resolved.
mircea_popescu: in any case those three lines unpack directly into http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-3-30#322704 ; for they curious as to how the mp brain works.
mircea_popescu: now, from the evaluation late march, it seems to me i was correct in thinking back mid dec that you understood what the problems are, but that you didn't bother to implement any solution for one of them ? or what am i missing ?
mircea_popescu: Dec 14 14:07:00 <mircea_popescu> maybe he bites the bullet and makes special files. or who the hell knows. i'm curious.
mircea_popescu: Dec 14 14:06:42 <mircea_popescu> i'm letting him contribute, what. he understands what the problems are.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2017-12-06 22:38 mircea_popescu: if we start fucking with vdiff, this is the first mover.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-12-6#253896 << earliest discussion of actually making replacement vdiff ; http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-12-14#259177 << where you got called a week later ; here's the moneyshot :
mircea_popescu: um. no, i said as much months ago, dja want me to dig the log ?
phf: mircea_popescu: right, around the time when you made that mothballed comment did i get cued into the idea that you wanted me to implement it.
mircea_popescu: well, the vdiff new tree was originally the most promising point for such a sample. i did say something in the vein of "i'm not going to keep trinque mothballed forever if you don't do it" recently, but anyways.
phf: this doesn't require a new codebase, trb is there, can be reground
phf: the problem.
phf: i don't understand the solution. i've spent significant amount of time writing various graph walking algorithms to feel like without an set of experimental patches it's hard to have a solution that actual address the underlying complexity. what i wanted to see from trinque or whoever's attempting to solve this problem, is an actual attempt to construct a press tree with a manifest file that does what they want, to ensure that the approach actual solves
mircea_popescu: so then you understand trinque's problem and trinque's idea ; or just the problem but not the idea or what was it ?
mircea_popescu: but "it's for the reader" is a very weak answer, because if patch 3 touching a and b is written so as to include patch 2, whereas patch 3` touching a alone is written so as not to include patch 2, "the reader" will have a most terrible time deciding which to use and why the fuck his build don't work.
phf: i'm saying that i understand the meta problem, because i've seen other people deal with it, and there's been a lot of competing proposals as to how to solve it, including trb's "makefile" approach.
phf: well, presumably that's for the reader.
phf: (there's another problem in my tree specifically, of double presses. you have to have two separate patches for both trees)
mircea_popescu: you, phf, made genesis G, with files a, b, c. you then made patch 1, which changes file a.
phf: i'm not sure if his analysis of the problem is correct without looking at it myself first
mircea_popescu: his patch is a loose leaf, because it doesn't touch any of the files ?
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-29 15:00 spyked: the way I understood it from reading v.pl, the edges in teh graph are established based on changes introduced by each hunk in the nodes (the patches). so since there are no patches changing the files in vdiff_lib_xalloc_static_xnmalloc.vpatch, it's a leaf (and this, if I understand correctly, is intrinsic to the current design of v).
mircea_popescu: phf do you see the problem spyked's patch to your v tree encountered ?
mircea_popescu: reason i even did things in this manner is because it's not clear to me why it was contentious or whether the contention was resolved.
mircea_popescu: so then say that!
mircea_popescu: phf that's the whole fucking point, implement his idea, having only "vague" understanding of how it's ~supposed~ to look. then he can comment on it.
trinque: maybe selectively because experimental patches might avoid touching the history file until they graduate
trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9g8Sl/?raw=true << sure, I think it's just the expected flow up to the current patch
phf: trinque: can you produce a sample then? i don't want to implement your idea, having only vague understanding of how it's supposed to look. there's been many discussions in the log as to what the actual manifest contents should include
trinque: not like I'd have been opposed; it's just easy to imagine what it'd look like. every patch has an antecedent of the history file, as well as whichever other files.
mircea_popescu: nah, the idea was you hatch a format and include it.
phf: a as to what format the manifest supposed to be. i didn't realize that the idea is that vtools tree was supposed to be the first one to experiment with it
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791280 << it's an oversight. i thought that the idea is that my vdiff/vpatch support programmatically whatever manifest format we come up with, but somebody demonstrates how it's supposed to work first. it's not hard to regrind existing tree, manually add a manifest, and then see how it looks on a graph. for some reason i thought that trinque has that experiment in his pipeline, since he also seems to have a clear ide
asciilifeform: ( the more frequent ending seems to be the one pictured in http://trilema.com/2013/and-then-i-said-to-him-jimmy )
asciilifeform will be surprised, impressed, if it ever becomes known that one of these folx kept the 0.02 for decades
mircea_popescu: i wonder which one of these identitties will pop up later doing anything worth the mention.
mircea_popescu: "qntra : under the deluge of tit bits, website-exchanges btc price keeps falling" lmao
trinque: BingoBoingo with the unmatched comedic timing
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> (btw, vice is SO butthurt at "fashwave" it's something else. how fucktarded do these shriveled up, useless cunts who thought they can "become writers" need to be not to realise that the only thing they're doing is fanning teh fire ? aaanyways) << It's like bull baiting, but with babushkas
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/03/gold-diggers-take-grace-mugabes-farm-as-precedent-of-uncompensated-land-seizure-turns-on-the-mugabes/ << Qntra - Gold Diggers Take Grace Mugabe's Farm As Precedent Of Uncompensated Land Seizure Turns on The Mugabes
mircea_popescu: grimm you wrote the 1 backwards which is funny
mircea_popescu: (btw, vice is SO butthurt at "fashwave" it's something else. how fucktarded do these shriveled up, useless cunts who thought they can "become writers" need to be not to realise that the only thing they're doing is fanning teh fire ? aaanyways)
mircea_popescu: phf mp has the advantage of a full house. but anyway, yes, very much so, "twitter is the secret treefort mom knows about ; and then discord is the secret basement where https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidslutsclub/comments/87421g/do_you_know_where_your_daughters_are/ "
a111: Logged on 2018-03-29 23:39 mircea_popescu: i suspect by now "autistic" is the equivalent of the 1800s "friend". "one of ours" as opposed to "one of theirs"
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791198 << there's already a generation of kids coming up for whom alt-right/feminism is what old people do; they want to be able to post fashwave pictures, while remaining mostly pantsuit. for them facebook/twitter is where they maintain public teacher/parents friendly identity, and mastodon/discord is where they can be themselves. it's basically just another wave of social networks.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-30 05:00 ave1: mod6, well your environment is sound and exactly the same as mine. Also you get the same error. Spyked patch should fix it (or open lib/xalloc.h and add static to all inline void functions that do not already have a static). It may be that phfs' enviroment is different (so far as I can see, spyked, hanbot, me and you all have the same problem).
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791228 << i'll publish the relevant patchsets on btcbase this saturday; i've read the relevant specs and the issue seems to be straightforward, what is annoying though is that for whatever reason it's not uniform across platforms.
mircea_popescu: don't stress out, the show's here all day.
douchebag: alright, she's offline at the moment. I'll let her know whenever she decides to get on
mircea_popescu: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-3-30#322461 << you get one share per word at the end of the month.
ave1: and another typo (i'm sorry) -> diana_coman
ave1: diana_comon, Yes, I read the test and the code and your text (also played with the test a little). So I was a little suprised that rsa_oaep_encrypt used mpi code. I will write an alternative.
mircea_popescu: see what the whip does ? it makes gods of people!
mircea_popescu: aand in other morning glories, "i dreamed that i was in trouble, i don't know what, and i was walking back to where you were, shaking incontrollably from all joints. but then, voice-of-god you, that was in the air, said "don't worry about it, pet. go back to sleep". so i went back to sleep." "did i also look like the old king on the packaging of small chocolates ?" "no, you didn't look like anything, it was just the voice."
diana_coman: to answer your question directly though: 1. it certainly could - rsa_oaep_encrypt is just a wrapper so it's meant more as an example of using all the stuff together rather than a standard: I'd expect that there would be other/different wrappers, made to suit specific uses
ave1: diana_coman: could the input parameter of rsa_oaep_encrypt be a character array? it is now an MPI this will discard any leading zero's of a message an exclude binary stream/file encryption. (same goes for decrypt)
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-23 04:27 mircea_popescu: im starting to understand that "the opposite of talking is not listening, the opposite of talking is waiting for your turn" quip may have been adequate in the early postmodern stage ; but by now it's truly a case of "work efficiency is most work with least read." chucka wins in the end.
ben_vulpes: douchebag: no, read the logs it's not that dense
douchebag: No I'm not in there, can you give me a brief overview of what's going down?
ben_vulpes: btw douchebag are you following the shared hosting php saga in #pizarro?
ben_vulpes: why not let the girl speak for herself
ben_vulpes: it's like two links deep off the homepage
douchebag: I assumed mpex.biz but since that's down at the moment I wasn't able to verify
douchebag: ben_vulpes: How much are qntra shares worth at the moment?
ben_vulpes: and then once you write a qntra article, you'll wonder whether or not you should sell the shares you get for it on the spot or hold out for a better price
douchebag: mircea_popescu: A woman is interested in the tits offer, but she's morbidly obese
ave1: btw I tried adding -flto/-fno-lto flags and optimization flags, but these did nothing for me.
ave1: mod6, well your environment is sound and exactly the same as mine. Also you get the same error. Spyked patch should fix it (or open lib/xalloc.h and add static to all inline void functions that do not already have a static). It may be that phfs' enviroment is different (so far as I can see, spyked, hanbot, me and you all have the same problem).
douchebag: They always bitch about not having money
ave1: mod6, I'm sorry I forgot the project name(http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-30#1791071), this should do the trick: gprclean vdiff.gpr; gprbuild -v vdiff.gpr
mircea_popescu: douchebag btw, what happened to the drawer guy ?
mircea_popescu: in case this is the last you hear of me -- know i've had a good life.
mircea_popescu: it is now in the freezer. i'm having the third serving. best 300 calorie spoonfulls i ever had.
mircea_popescu: AND THEN i cooked the flour in the fat and bechamel'd it with the alcohol. the resulting sauce got poured over cut up bananas.
mircea_popescu: in other suicide notes : i had girl grind into fine dust a 100% chocolate bar while another ground into similarily fine dust semillas de maranon. i myself was dumping raisins into rum.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-29 17:23 mircea_popescu: so : in order to prevent walking their db, fetlife DID NOT, ~~~STILL~~~ implement the obviously correct method described for free by moi, back in http://trilema.com/2015/fetlife-the-meat-market/#comment-112222
mircea_popescu: they keep "adding improvements", various http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-3-29#321892 epycicles.
mircea_popescu: basically, didn't ahve the time for the pantsuit to work it into idiocy, which is how things die there, "we added a code of conduct".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you understand how the usg uroborus goes ? constant eating its own tail : 1. have "idea" ; 2. get "finance" for idea ; 3. implement "idea" to "grow big" because "monetize later" ; 4. someone else has "same idea" does it cheaper ; 5. collects finance to "grow big" because "money later" and so on
mircea_popescu: douchebag but he has a point, there's a large pile of discord sluts / servers dedicated to them. can just as well raid those.
mircea_popescu: the whole point of the exercise is to bring the light of the new world to the masses.
douchebag: but I could easily round up a couple prostitutes and have em write on their tits
mircea_popescu: why, have you been sweet talking the girls into giving out your btc addresses ?
douchebag: mircea_popescu: Hey I was wondering, I know a shit ton of prostitutes - do I get 0.02 in exchange for their tit pics?
trinque: ben_vulpes: lol coals. I paid the damned thing before I even saw.
mircea_popescu: anyway. classification is the first and remains the foremost job of the scholar ; the cornersone of all understanding. its tools are the paramount tools of knowledge.
ben_vulpes: trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xmnNW/?raw=true i can provide dates and conversion rates if you really feel like raking me over the coals
mircea_popescu: and "peasant civilisation" as in mirvniki or the wooden civilisation that covered the hills of transylvania as late as the 1800s is "both must repress"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: out of curiosity, what would the other 2 holes of the 2x2 matrix look like , and has anyone filled'em ?
mircea_popescu: the "feminist" aka, "reverse-alt-right" doesn't even sort in a different box, either. they're the exact sorty of nut, precisely in the manner of how the guy who always speaks the truth and the guy who always speaks the opposite of truth aren't DIFFERENT.
mircea_popescu: the particular sort of nut that proposes that men needn't compete and women must repress is always and everywhere the same, whether it calls itself "young communists" or "students" or "Straightedge" or "alt-right", there can not be a difference once that unity is given.
mircea_popescu: and there's only two available fixes : either compete, or repress. there's nothing else, but these and mixes.
mircea_popescu: sex regulation is the first and fundamental point of even having a society in the first place, you understand this ? because a guy can maybe do a woman for an hour a day or such, but a gal can do all the men that walk in the door, and then some. it's mismatched, by nature.
mircea_popescu: when's the last time you saw a pantsuit worry outloud about how much sex a woman's been having ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i don't understand the point in re male regulation of the copulation rate
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this is a necessary problem of "unpumped tanks". sulphur compounds sort themselves to the bottom.
ben_vulpes: and in "Make Oil, Great Again" news, apparently the US Strategic Petroleum Reserves are thick with hydrogen sulfide to the tune of 600ppm in the RDS sale, and 9000 ppm in the sale to china.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes consider the relationship to "promiscuity" ; and the notions of male-regulation of copulation rate. it's one of the best standards to sort "mass movements", much like the two metal bars slowly growing apart are the best standard to sort eggs.
mircea_popescu: (for the connoisseur : the only noteworthy, but indeed noteworthy for the insane lulz, part of this "straightedge" is how early usian starry-eyed communism had its EXACT equivalent of the... wtf was the soviet name for the anti-nep youths that didn't wash ? same group that did the great leap forward in china ?)
ben_vulpes: huh i don't see the lineage from straightedgin; but my only brushes with it were kids who thought they needed something to differentiate themselves from oh okay now i see
ben_vulpes: alt-right really with the majestic adherence to gender roles
ben_vulpes: here i was thinking, "hm i wonder when the girls will actually start dolling up"
mircea_popescu: douchebag you know, for all the pretense the us is one of the few remaining orcistans where not everyone has a room to themselves.
douchebag: and then they want to fix their hair, go talk to their family, take a billion years to write a couple letters
mircea_popescu: but, truth be told, the reason i keep asking about previous work is precisely this. aaanyways.
mircea_popescu feels bad for the girl
douchebag: i think it's one of them cheap phones mexicans have
douchebag: Coco1997: Get the fuck out of here
asciilifeform: trinque: iirc ben_vulpes posted a cost postmortem ( recall tho that he 'won' the customs lottery, cost double )
asciilifeform: i was gonna fill the slot with pcengines, arm boxen, etc if no one wants to fill with adult box.
asciilifeform: not max weight, theoretically copa will eat 2 100pounders, but at some cost ( 200 'overweight' each, plus 150 'extra' for the 2nd )
ben_vulpes: pretty sure the remaining slot was booked for s.mg
Coco1997: sorry bout the wait
mircea_popescu: ah was he ? then no dice.
mircea_popescu: aite, so then : asciilifeform had a spare slot from what i understand, when he leaves in a coupla weeks he can haul it over for you. i'll even cover the cost on nsa's budget as a donatrion to the foundation.
mod6: It wasn't lost in transit, when ben_vulpes was at the airport, he had his wife come and pick it up from there to 'cut-weight'. It's safe in his care.
mod6: The current thinking is that this server still here will be racked locally to make use of it; as soon as we have pricing, and maybe a less item of less value shipped successfully, we'll have this one couriered down to Pizarro.
mod6: So here I am writing up the SoBA, looking for a log reference to where either I or ben_vulpes said that only *one* of The Foundation's Two (newly bought servers for Pizarro racking) made it down there.
douchebag: Eh, a lot of these girls aren't really into the whole posting pics online and stuff, but when money is involved they change their mind lol
mircea_popescu: for all the "everything is connected" and "knowledge at fingertips" blather, the marginal utility of information seems rather iron age.
mircea_popescu: douchebag you know, this abundance of girls willing to do it but who've not ever done it before suggests to me the brave new world of pantsuit is really very economically inefficient.
douchebag: Sounds good, I'll let them know
douchebag: mircea_popescu: You ready to see some more tits? I've had a number of women who were inquring about the offer
mircea_popescu: quakers forever they shall be!
mircea_popescu: i suspect by now "autistic" is the equivalent of the 1800s "friend". "one of ours" as opposed to "one of theirs"
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-29#1791023, mod6, did you run gprbuild -v in the directory containing vdiff.gpr, it did not seem to pick it up (it does with my local gprbuild, which has same version etc as yours).? It should show the absolute path to the gcc that is used during the build.
mircea_popescu: doods living there own (well, "own") $1-5000 houses they made themselves, generally by buying planks/metal/whatever and hooking it up with the cousins. universally one level, and then 2-5 cars, more or less broken down, worth another 2-5k
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes they have these favela-like things here ("hatillo 1 through hatillo 30 or some shit). you couldn't believe what traffic jams they create.
ben_vulpes: perfect for the traffic-choked favela
BingoBoingo: lol, haven't seen any of those here yet but I imagine they are coming
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, news from india : tata came up with a $2500 car. "nano". it has... no 0-60, because it goes 45 at the most.
asciilifeform: ( supposing you have a working gdb, apparently there exist boxes without gdb... )
asciilifeform: 'make debug' , given that 'turd.bin' input file exists, will print all machine instructions executed by the program.
mircea_popescu: that was more of an... extended bootloader ? but anyways, the lines get blurry
asciilifeform: ^ all readers invited to try the demo ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: moar of a 'libc' then kernel
mircea_popescu: holy fuck i think we just published the first version of tmsr-kernel
asciilifeform: commented out in the end is 100% of what you need for a heaptron : the sbrk mechanism mentioned by phf
asciilifeform: ave1: illustrated is the use of stack frame to get cmdline args; and the use of raw SYSCALL to , e.g., get file size, open it, mmap over it, then dump its contents to stdout, then close, quit
mod6: there you go ave1 ^
ave1: I'll try it the coming weeks, I have a minimal ada anyway
ave1: hmm, it seems to me the whole init stuf does not use syscall, but instead expects linux to have provided pointers at specific places (for argv and freinds)
asciilifeform: it is pointedly untrue that 'stuck with libc on c machine' . can implement all the sane basic functionality using SYSCALL ( the kernel api that's at the bottom of every libc ) and nowhere is it written that you have to be retarded and e.g. pointer-arithmetize or heapize while doing so.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-29 15:22 mod6: ave1: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/i9ctn/?raw=true << here are those commands, let me know if you want me to run others.
mircea_popescu: anyway, let's restate : "since you're stuck with a c library anyway as long as you're on c-machine, at the very least to do init and end ; and since musl is not that terrible and only links what you use anyway ; just use it and be done with the headache -- the alternative is bloating ada with nonsense"
ave1: now I'll have to rescan the logs, never noticed it so far
ave1: So as long as the MUSL C library development stays sane, I would say follow it.
ave1: And if you want to do this for a C program, you will end up with much the same code as MUSL.
ave1: Cool the loggers are fighting
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-03-29 08:15 ave1: For musl the initialization / finalization part is minimal and easy to read, for gnu lib C it is not and part of it used code from the dynamic linking library.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-29 14:43 mircea_popescu: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-3-29#321590 << so basically the way i'm interpreting what you're saying is, "there's no practical way to have no c library on a c system ; but if you want just the init and end that can be done quite minimalistically and forgetaboutit."
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-29#1790899, I'm saying use the musl C library for the "no C library on a C machine", if you do all the things it does yourself, you get the same kind of code. For example, you could do this all in ADA but you'll still have to shuffle pointers around and get this "unsafe" but it's written in Ada code.
BingoBoingo: Maybe they already hired Baku?
mircea_popescu: where's their "intellectual property" nao ?
asciilifeform: hey mircea_popescu , what's the last ver of php that worx with mp's wp ?
mircea_popescu: john baku belongs working for the usg, he's just about dumb enough.
mircea_popescu: fucking imagine this imbecile of a "software engineer" from canada, who implements security via a php script the victim has to load for it to catch.
mircea_popescu: now, obviously the browser auto-follows that and gets the chimp locked. however curl does not, and consequently... THE LOCKING EXPIRES. in less than a day.
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER, and this is the gem : their "lock out" looks to the script like this : <html><body>You are being <a href="https://fetlife.com/locked_out?user_id=????????">redirected</a>.</body></html>
mircea_popescu: there's, of course, nothing mysterious about it : it counts pageloads and 404 hits. for the walker this later point is of course the concern, you have to carefully avoid getting too many 404s per interval.
mircea_popescu: instead, they have a "mysterious" "security" blabla, which does things like https://vircotto.com/fetlife-locked-my-account-for-four-days-heres-what-i-learned.html
mircea_popescu: so : in order to prevent walking their db, fetlife DID NOT, ~~~STILL~~~ implement the obviously correct method described for free by moi, back in http://trilema.com/2015/fetlife-the-meat-market/#comment-112222
mircea_popescu: ok, this is a gem of a lulz item the likes of which one can only encounter on the web.
asciilifeform: if it's the i-can-afford-to-loose type of bet, nuffin wrong with it
ben_vulpes: that iiis the bet.
mircea_popescu: anyway, his position is bolstered by the fact that from the looks of things, the empire is going to fight to the last to defend the re racket, much like body will keep liver going if it's the last thing it does.
mircea_popescu: depends if one's a tree, i guess. sure as fuck gypsies have no problem tying the 5yo daughters to pull the cart in line with the goats, as per ye olde http://trilema.com/2010/nuditatea-la-copii-si-sugari/#selection-41.0-45.498
asciilifeform: ( problem is what tends to happen in the heads of people who buy in. as further discussed in old thread on ben_vulpes's www, http://cascadianhacker.com/perceived-vs-actual-barriers-to-homeownership-for-young-adults/comment-page-1#comment-174 )
mircea_popescu: lobbes austria is in the wrong. you buy cheap young hussies generally. romania-czech-slovakia-slovenia-serbia etc, the periphery of the empire. not austria (or hungary), the fucking center of it
BingoBoingo: lobbes: More Germans I have talked to here are thinking Hungary than Austria as places for their parents to retire.
asciilifeform: trying to 'outsmart the casino' tends to end in tears, ben_vulpes