mircea_popescu: suppose you have the following elements : I[ndustry], producing goods whichg can be exported and needing materials and equipment to be imported ; and P[opulace], expecting to be paid a living wage (anyone's pretense to the contrary are idle, all the advanced socialist peons want or ever wanted was "cash for being here", that'\s why socialist states even exist or ever existed, to provide that, from napoleonic france onward) an
mircea_popescu: also, understand the very informative self-destructive pattern that became evident in dying su and was by all appearences well understood by "western world", judging at least by how they keep trying to apply it :
mircea_popescu: can be, yes. but in any case -- there's no such thing as blackface devaluation. blackface is ALWAYS a camp phenomenon.
asciilifeform: iirc this imaginary spirit that flies away from the wheelbarrow mark/ruble , the chinese called 'mandate of heaven'
mircea_popescu: the key ingredient for the "shovel-and-wheelbarrow" mark in germany isn't so much the paper itself, as it is the individuals who'd have traded "all of this" for "any little of that".
mircea_popescu: this is the deep issue uniting "rock and roll in the soviet union" with "malinche, lover of hernan cortes" : without a ~well connected local~ to spit on the local items, there can not be a serious devaluation of them.
mircea_popescu: unch of http://trilema.com/2017/in-case-you-were-wondering-where-all-the-worthless-nuland-drones-ended-up/ missionaries, there can be no explosive devaluation.
mircea_popescu: moreover, currency collapse is always driven by naggum's idiots ("in order to be in a position where one must either strike or die, one must have put themselves into such a position, for instance by expecting to buy a lot of things they cou;dn't make"). the camp/blackface duality ( http://trilema.com/2017/pronouncements-on-camp/#selection-161.66-161.165 ) is very much apropos : without a "nouveau riche" class, ie, without a b
mircea_popescu: in order for something to be money it must be "at least this common" ; much like in order for locusts to swarm they must be touched at least this often by other locusts.
mircea_popescu: rather, it's a symptom of rarity. the currency function of a good depends on some contextual properties ; if there's few enough dollars in the country, the dollar bill is less money and more... artwork, say. becomes a kind of stamp.
asciilifeform: the latter sounds like symptom of 'nope, not a market, but some d00d pushing it'
mircea_popescu: and also : no real interdependence of price and supply. generally, when the supply increased the price also increased ; while when the supply dropped, the price also dropped.
mircea_popescu: (anyway, for documentary lulz : once the russkis introduced a vague approximation of an interbank currency market in 1991, the volumes traded were in the 10mn range. this is ALL THE DOLLARS IN THE COUNTRY. think.)
asciilifeform: holy FUCK they turned 'rokotov & fainberg' into... a jeans brand in usa
asciilifeform: hmm is there no english ver of this anywhere..?!
asciilifeform: recall hruschev's retroactive death sentence for the gold peddlers.
mircea_popescu: which is why it's important to keep the influx going.
mircea_popescu: anyway, but yes, the principal reason ru had a relatively easy time in the 80s (unlike, say, 2015s argentina) is because VERY LITTLE dollars in private hands.
asciilifeform: ( internal mechanics of ruble is a tall bag of lulz about which not errything even today is known. but there were several ~independently-circulating subspecies . one of which technically existed until even 2010 or so ! )
mircea_popescu: they had a comparatively easier time, seeing how they had much better control on trade.
mircea_popescu: consequently, some at least cursory argument could be had that the price signals are substantially enough different to not be comparable (and god only knows how many man-hours the inept "intel" services of the firm of r, t & f spent trying to discern if official ruble is .5 or 4 to 1 dollars TRULY.)
mircea_popescu: anyway, the one thing the soviets (all of them) did well was confound the issue. see, because "not consumer but industrial economy", various industrial goods were significantly cheaper, and all sorts of consumer goods significantly more expensive, than in "real world" of reagan thatcher and friends.
mircea_popescu: rather, a "i don't know how to write sales copy" thing.
asciilifeform: rright, the abstraction where money is a scalar and the operations commute, associate, and transpose, is a peacetime thing
mircea_popescu: it's always going to be a purely aribtrary market created by authority fiart, whether it's "write this string on your tits" or "tell me the string yulyiana has written on her tiots"
asciilifeform: ( are these to be assessed as pulp ? ...firewood ? )
mircea_popescu: ro was about 100 lei to the dollar, making the avg salary then about $30 or so. (per month, about 1/30 or so of us average salary at the time).
asciilifeform: 'exchange' is possibly wrong q tho, what's it mean to have 'exchange rate' when the local orc coin dun buy much
asciilifeform can't give a decently accurate answer, wasn't there
mircea_popescu: i doubt that. what was the black market dollar rate in 1985 moscow ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: maybe in moar 'western' sovblok places like ro, with the 'tehnologia navigatiei cu vele' tricks. in proper su, economy was sufficiently 'demonetarized' that nothing directly comparable afaik existed.
mircea_popescu: it's how the soviets did it, isn't it ? in that brief interval between when they died and when they fell.
BingoBoingo: There's so many embassies in this city if there were shootings outside the slums they would just about have to be in front of an embassy.
asciilifeform: re upstack -- hey mircea_popescu , recall http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-08#1193376 ? i suspect that near-fyootoor usg-'regulated' 'market' will consist of 1 counter where wintel stock is dealt, where 'you can only buy' (or stand accused of 'manipulation', and another counter where bitcoin 'you can only sell' (or ditto), lol
mod6: unless he really just didn't like the guys shoes.
mircea_popescu: http://qcostarica.com/one-dead-another-wounded-in-shooting-outside-the-italian-embassy-in-san-jose/
asciilifeform: hm what's the use in shooting up an embassy
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 16:02 ben_vulpes: http://archive.is/S1lfr << methinks the lady doth protest too much
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: admittedly knowing nuffin but what i can see through my telescope, all i see in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818015 is yet another moar explicit tightening of the noose
mircea_popescu: oh i forgot to mention -- yest as i was moving about town somebody shot up the mexican embassy here
mod6: these people make me sick
mod6: <+BingoBoingo> mod6: Got crackling in the lungs or just a very wet nose? << got the throat tickle and the coughing is starting.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform et al, the remedy: http://qntra.net/2018/05/existence-of-big-botnet-made-from-small-routers-announced/
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "up" and "down" may not be as firmly manifest as you personally imagine. postmodernism is bizarro world, up is down, they say hello when they leave...
asciilifeform: ( manipulation downward, of course, is from their pov god's work )
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 16:04 mircea_popescu suspects alf will be nothing short of thrilled to discover he now has the power to shape usg "law enforcement" policy.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818018 << i'm quite certain that they will have a show trial or two for 'putin's wreckers' who 'manipulated the price upward'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: the first day I felt compeltely relieved was ironically the day before I formally affiliated with a hospital here
BingoBoingo: mod6: Got crackling in the lungs or just a very wet nose?
mircea_popescu suspects alf will be nothing short of thrilled to discover he now has the power to shape usg "law enforcement" policy.
mircea_popescu: the "read something in #trilema and got moving" part '''inexplicably''' missing from jewonline.today.
mircea_popescu: ^ very recommended btw. one of the best films ever.
BingoBoingo: I've just been plugging in the url and bingereading
BingoBoingo would like to see Mocky blog hit the RSS
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 13:46 asciilifeform: i mean for receiving. in re the 'some emitters are counters in pivapollo and lack dough'
asciilifeform: ave1: yours is imho the best version thus far
mircea_popescu: there's technical writing and there's commercial copy writing, much like there's technical drawing and pornography. crumb (if you ever saw the footage of his interacting with his estranged son), is imo the best example of the evanescent item here under discussion : the old man ~tries~ to tell the young squirt what to do, but of course the young'un knows better.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 09:42 ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817627, I think the text is too technical. This is my try: http://ave1.org/planding.html.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817939 << I don't think being too technical is necessarily a bad thing, but my own issue with ben_vulpes' original was that a) too 'cheesy' b) too much 'digging' to unearth the selling points. Conversely, I like how ave1's version is straight and to the point (e.g. bullet points of "why Pizarro" are front and center). Good skeleton imo
mircea_popescu: mod6, as they gain experience linking things people learn not to put punctuation marks after the link >D
mod6: ooh, i see the problem, I clicked the link from his posting above, which my browser added the '.' on the end of the .html - this resulted in a 404.
mod6: ave1: Looks like you maybe took your attempt at the Pizarro landing page down?
mircea_popescu: you'd almost suspect, "whoa, now that's a thinking chick, best landing page ever, bet you she sells all the pot she's trying to". except, of course, no such subtility or sophistication is ever to be suspected online. she's genuinely just https://preview.ibb.co/e6azd8/hurr.jpg -ing about.
mircea_popescu: some people even like the engineer-spawned failures at commercial speech ; but seriously now, what THE FUCK do they do in highschool these days ?! the whole point of the exercise, once they gave up teaching anyone anything back in the 70s, was "you go to hs to learn how to talk to girls and businessmen".
mircea_popescu: http://ave1.org/planding.html << this is altogether not terrible. if it's not much of a landing page, at least it's clean and legible.
mircea_popescu: bbs putting this into the lexicon.
asciilifeform can't picture any other reading, lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, they have an automated escrow thing, see. localbitcoins i mean. here : 1. people tender offers ; 2. you close one ; 3. they either cancel or mark it as satisfied ; 4. you check and either release payment or dispute 3.
mircea_popescu: well, nothing besides administrative overhead, of course, of course. some of these are cancelled on the spot, some end up disputed, the whole ghostly dance of inexistent items trying to pretend to existence.
mircea_popescu: nah, you lose nothing, there's a green button "release bitcoin" you don't click.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 13:28 mircea_popescu: you can expect actual payments in your hand in 1 to 2 cases out of ten tries (defining a "try" as having initiated a tx on localbitcoins -- which btw jumps randomly for unclear reasons), worth about 90% of the lulsite price.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817947 << does this translate into the losse of 80% of the coin ? or do i misread
asciilifeform: i mean for receiving. in re the 'some emitters are counters in pivapollo and lack dough'
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 13:27 mircea_popescu: western union expects you to know a magic number ("mtcn", 10 digits) the sender is issued upon sending, and present id. the sender only needs your name and city where you pick up payment. western union will ask you a bunch of inane questions (where you live, who the sender is, how do you know them, what's the money for, etcetera) for which they require no documentation.
asciilifeform: ty for the experimental work, mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: currencies other than eur and usd were out of scope for this amusement, though i doubt there's much meaningful existence in the "currencies other than eur and usd" category.
mircea_popescu: i would say it is an absolute requirement for pizarro to maintain a localbitcoins account and sink in the required time to build itself a network of known-good users, as these in fact appear to exist, and may constitute humanity candidates / come in useful laterally.
mircea_popescu: in the end, administrative overhead (finding localbitcoinists, talking to them, talking to western union, updating the site objects according to reality in the field etcetera) comes around 2 hours / successful payment.
mircea_popescu: the vast majority of localbitcoin lusers will require ~major~ amounts of decerebrated handholding (indulging them may improve the 1 to 2 in 10 figure quoted above), in the form of incessant messenger-style confirmations and encouragements, "yes really, let's really, we're really doing this" etc etc, easily 20 dribblets / head. the damage wrought on the preteen brain of the contemporary 20something by "smart"phones and "apps"
mircea_popescu: ted enough to issue a fake "mtcn" (number-password western union expects you to know), try to get you to release payment, and then pretend like they "cancelled" for whatever imaginary reasons when you come to complain western union didn't have it -- a splendid way to waste an hour or so in city traffic.
mircea_popescu: you can further expect a strong showing of scammers. these will be variations of "here's something, release payment". in about half the cases these are advanced enough to output some kind of official-looking falsified screenshot / whatever bizarro standards of visual certification of truth they use in their world (no, douchebag didn't come up with the screencapping on his own, it's a thing in his age-peer group, the "proof").
mircea_popescu: you can expect actual payments in your hand in 1 to 2 cases out of ten tries (defining a "try" as having initiated a tx on localbitcoins -- which btw jumps randomly for unclear reasons), worth about 90% of the lulsite price.
mircea_popescu: the first time you use a piece of id for id they'll also want a photocopy of it, and plenty of "wu locations" are in fact a counter in a pivapollo place somewhere, without a copier (they see no problem with this). about one in ten "wu locations" have not the cash on hand to make payment, and they see no problem with this, either.
mircea_popescu: western union expects you to know a magic number ("mtcn", 10 digits) the sender is issued upon sending, and present id. the sender only needs your name and city where you pick up payment. western union will ask you a bunch of inane questions (where you live, who the sender is, how do you know them, what's the money for, etcetera) for which they require no documentation.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 17:26 mircea_popescu: but anyway, im off to manage some efforts to research the world for pizarro's benefit inter alia, so bbs.
mircea_popescu: in re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817537 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817792 : there are a few dozen accounts advertising western union payments on localbitcoins. the majority of these are neets in orclands trying to live off shaving website-enacted realities (as an alternative to living off freelancer.com / uber.com / etcetera -- it's evidently a lifestyle, the french fries / grocery bagging of 2018).
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 07:15 ben_vulpes: lobbes, BingoBoingo (and mod6 and asciilifeform, mircea_popescu if he's inclined) here's a draft of the copy for the shared hosting landing page: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PcA2p/?raw=true
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817627, I think the text is too technical. This is my try: http://ave1.org/planding.html.
esthlos: okay, the keychain in root should be fixed now
esthlos: i've notices that the behaivor of sbcl and ccl for make-pathname is slightly different
trinque: changed the temp keychain dir to /tmp and hey! successful press!
esthlos: I'm not free again until Friday evening, so I won't be able to respond or do anything until then
esthlos: trinque phf et al: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OYaGd/?raw=true << further steps on the vtron. currently it is freaking out when used with my ccl 1.11.5 . the make-temp-dir function phf provided throws an error on the first invocation, which prevents use as an executable, but oddly the function works if I return to the top level and then call it again.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 07:15 ben_vulpes: lobbes, BingoBoingo (and mod6 and asciilifeform, mircea_popescu if he's inclined) here's a draft of the copy for the shared hosting landing page: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PcA2p/?raw=true
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 00:29 phf: hat time it was concluded that the effort of mac upkeep is not there, and i believe that's also when mp/diana decided to go with a custom protocol for a future non-crystal space implementation
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817911 << note that the protocol; is re comms ; what client uses is entirely at client writer's leisure.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817898 << guess. meanwhile some other coinbase prints a "bitcoin domination" % (spoiler : it's very low, bitcoin dun matter bla bla bla), and then WHENEVER bitcoin moves the ENTIRE list of "blockchains" and "cryptocurrencies" movesd in sync. anyone with half a fucking clue would observe that if the movement is 100% coupled then yes tyvm, bitcoin domination = 100%. but then again, democratic
phf: crystal space has some complicated, xml based module system, and planeshift, i believe, approached that module system not necessarily from first principles either. i couldn't really devote enough time (and i spent couple of weeks on the whole thing the first time as it is) to figuring out how the whole thing is supposed to come together. it's definitely possible to run it on mac, but the effort literally costs more than buying a dedicated linux box
phf: hat time it was concluded that the effort of mac upkeep is not there, and i believe that's also when mp/diana decided to go with a custom protocol for a future non-crystal space implementation
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 21:57 douchebag: There appears to be an issue w/ homebrew and Eulora.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817823 << the taps you're using are for previous release of eulora (which already had some odd issues on mac, but worked). i took a stab at updating them when the latest release came out, and enough targets moved that it was again non-trivial to build the stack. i've managed to hand build it/jerry rig homebrew to build it, but the result out of the box was working even worse (mostly i lost textures entirely). around t
ben_vulpes: nevertheless, "once upon a time we made cars in flint, and the water was unsafe to drink in mexico. these days, they make the cars in mexico and flint's water is poison."
ben_vulpes: they would never back your whole hdd, precious linux vms and gnupg keychains and all to icloud, no never.
ben_vulpes: is "can get root privs" all you need to feel comfortable using gpg on the thing?
ben_vulpes: douchebag: the incessant whining to "upgrade!", the lockout of gdb shy of signing executables for execution, none of this screams "not your computer! get your hands out of the machine!" to you?
ben_vulpes: purged it manually, after throwing the "no seriously i am a grownup" switch?
douchebag: I've been running MacOS for about two years, prior I used Linux for 6 years. I love my Macbook, I find that I can multitask a lot better, the window manager is great
ben_vulpes: douchebag: the pushing of multigigabyte files to "your" computer doesn't make you pucker at running gpg on the thing?
LordMPofTMSR: well, i think most people hate them because they're inept and unwieldy, not specifically "compromised" whatever that even is.
douchebag: LordMPofTMSR: I know, I just haven't seen evidence proving MacOS is comprimised other than the fact that it's a large company
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 22:17 douchebag: Well, although many people will disagree with this statement. I'm a pretty boring person, and I'm not too concerned about if the NSA is watching me - if the NSA wants to watch me they will do it regardless.
LordMPofTMSR: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817840 << this is not so different from saying "i have plenty of blood, and if the lice wants to get it they'll get it regardless." hygiene is not directly a consideration of denying the alimentary cycle of parasytes ; it's rather a question of self-respect, and in the 2nd line a question of socialization, because no matter how cool you might be "otherwise", at least some chicks won't fuck you with lice no matter
LordMPofTMSR: a that may be it then
asciilifeform: it eats disk, and they started selling a series of boxes with ludicrously small ssd, in 2010s, and decided that it can vanish
LordMPofTMSR: then i dunno
asciilifeform: they used same one, iirc, for ages
LordMPofTMSR: asciilifeform, in nomine diaboli avocando, maybe x finally became too large a pile of hair, exceeded their capacity to translate hair to wet noodles.
asciilifeform: ('hey, all the other commercial unix vendors croaked, we can do the bait an' switch nao')
a111: Logged on 2016-02-09 18:09 mircea_popescu: then turn into your wolf form and cheat some more.
LordMPofTMSR: download the carplanesubmarine app for not going anywhere!
asciilifeform: at one time , 2001-2014(?) it was ~usable as a xterm -- until they stopped shipping x !
LordMPofTMSR: all the solved problems!
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 21:57 douchebag: There appears to be an issue w/ homebrew and Eulora.
LordMPofTMSR: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817823 << the only person who either managed or almost-managed (or, i guess, were going to manage) running eulora on mac was phf, maybe two years ago. i dunno it ever went anywhere ; nor am i all that sure macs are computers.
asciilifeform: found it by accident when asked q of 'when's the last time they caught a sw pirate' ( answ: apparently not since 1st bush term )
LordMPofTMSR: asciilifeform, yeah, hanging out with the neet crowd.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 21:33 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in entomology dept, https://archive.li/Uj74z << the reich claims ownership of all satellites
LordMPofTMSR: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817820 << pretty lulzy ; but then again if you ask them...
ben_vulpes: the debian rng bug is a good example of hosed RNGs, that's a fine place to start
ben_vulpes: i'm obliquely suggesting that you have nfi how your keys were put together because the layers of abstraction are too thick.
ben_vulpes: ever wonder about how the deterministic number generator on that vm was configulated?
douchebag: them*
douchebag: I'm not really imagining it does anything, I just happened to make my keypair in the VM because that's what I was using at the time I created thm
ben_vulpes: gnupg does, so for the third time why are you using a vm, what do you imagine it gets you
douchebag: Even though most Linux applications work just fine with MacOS, a lot of them don't.
douchebag: Well, although many people will disagree with this statement. I'm a pretty boring person, and I'm not too concerned about if the NSA is watching me - if the NSA wants to watch me they will do it regardless.
ben_vulpes: douchebag: a vm on the macbook?
ben_vulpes: brew edit $formula might help, but i ditched the mac nigh for reasons of pervasive upgradism like this a year ago, haven't looked back, can't suggest that you spend much time doing battle with republican softs on the crapple.
ben_vulpes: on a less glib line, homebrew changed the calling syntax on the tap. you should read the error message for the correction instruction.
ben_vulpes: possibly the homebrew part
ben_vulpes: douchebag: yeah it's the mac part
douchebag: There appears to be an issue w/ homebrew and Eulora.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in entomology dept, https://archive.li/Uj74z << the reich claims ownership of all satellites
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 16:57 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817664 << did you mean "poach" as in what a poacher (hunter on other's lands) does ?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817710 << yes, i seem to make these kind of homonym errors a lot actually, and i reread the sentence every time, but don't see it until the issue is pointed out.
BingoBoingo: But no one talks about the Aeron Thrombolyticus Maximus chairs being installed that day
a111: Logged on 2015-11-18 14:54 asciilifeform: shinohai: 'i heard that ivan won a car in the lotto.' 'yes! but not ivan but piotr, not a car but an overcoat, not in lotto but at cards, and not won but lost'
asciilifeform: i suppose it's possible if ~whole thing is disinfo , in the style of http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-18#1326332
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: gotta love the 'sonic attack' usg.partyline idiocy. described item ( supposing it physically took place ) is 100% consistent with rf injury. << Or transient ischemia which is common in the chair sitting classes.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the rf-illuminated snooper was re-created in '50s and is used by 100% of world today
ben_vulpes: wouldn't put it past either the usg or cn engineering departments to fail at recreating the su rf-illuminated snooper but to screw up the power by a few orders of magnitude
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: gotta love the 'sonic attack' usg.partyline idiocy. described item ( supposing it physically took place ) is 100% consistent with rf injury.
ben_vulpes: this is reaching penis-theft proportions of lol
mircea_popescu: but anyway, im off to manage some efforts to research the world for pizarro's benefit inter alia, so bbs.
asciilifeform: can maybe skip the sophistry ? problem is emphatically not 'www site prints random numbers', but 'usg controls root of price signal hierarchy'
mircea_popescu: if and only if everyone's in chains, then and then only can you be entirely sure nobody's linked two z80 chips together and cycling "alf is a pooperhead" back and forth between them.
mircea_popescu: the problem defined as "alf does not want there to exist such a thing as a website printing random numbers" can not be solved in general. it can be rendered mute, but only by nuking the web, and the sort of item that produced it, which is to say neets.
asciilifeform: ( horses watered in the potomak river , etc )
asciilifeform: so, to return frame upstack, per mircea_popescu the problem is not solveable short of total victory and nurembergification of the culprits etc ?
asciilifeform: they're cheap, but observe what happened to the ones that wouldn't reliably play ball with hitler. all of the current goxes exist by crown sufferance, afaik.
mircea_popescu: and it's way the fuck more expensive and involved to neuter all mosquitoes than it is for a mosquito to lay eggs.
mircea_popescu: because the reason the gox exist is that they're cheap to make, and therefore the democracy makes.
asciilifeform: 'neuter the goxs' ability to ride pseudo-price wave' is not equiv to 'control all future', neh
mircea_popescu: controlling the future is the ultimate point, there's no "if onlyt i could control the sunrise time i could make myself some cheap coffee"
mircea_popescu: well ? i mean what, you want to control the future now, as a SIDE POINT ?
mircea_popescu: have more friends / be nicerf to the folk who, however ineptly, tries to be your friends, talk to more people, etc.
asciilifeform: in linked thread , asciilifeform asks the q of whether this problem is even theoretically approachable.
asciilifeform: if tomorrow usg decides 'btc will crash to 5k' and moves the arrow on goxes to 5k/per , everybody goes 'it's 5k', even folx who swear they never look at a gox. imho this is a bug. and no i do not have a proposed pill. is all.
mircea_popescu: why sit and fret that "which thing i choose to do -- is the thing i choose to do" ?
asciilifeform: it does not solve the problem ( am i only one who sees it as problem ? ), merely moves it , like the orthodox j00z moved their bread oven lighting to goy-modem
ben_vulpes: i intend to do this for the july bills.
mircea_popescu: alright! so then what is the problem ? you wanna use gox for settlement, you're allowed. you don't wanna, there's an alternative scheme. you wanna use something else, all the better.
mircea_popescu: o for fucks sake. will you start reading the logs at any point, or is the douchebag issue contagious.
asciilifeform: there's a substitute that doesn't use gox temperatures for anything ?!
mircea_popescu: the republican substitute for this purpose was documented last year. yes ? no ?
asciilifeform: recall, whole subthread started as, roughly, as asciilifeform:'why is there a gox in our process loop'
mircea_popescu: and no, it's not because of girly reason-substitute ("oh, it's too hard, rite, that's why you don't spend your life rasiing my spawn, because you ain't got what it takes!!!!") either.
ben_vulpes: tangentially, "Before December 2017, there was no market for bitcoin derivatives." https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2018/may/how-futures-trading-changed-bitcoin-prices/
mircea_popescu: i'm not "earning" the sub's submission. you read say http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NQRtP/?raw=true now on the third pass through the logs ?
asciilifeform: ( 'nobody can be arsed' is imho a valid hypothesis, and i've nuffin to offer against it )
mircea_popescu: however, they also lack the very military modesty of soviet russia, being instead old spinster maids. so they make a ... "here's a not really value we were only kidding k ?"
asciilifeform: but is there a flaw in asciilifeform's logic ? if the goxes are really as shallowly supplied with btc as previously suggested, it ought to take a quite modest bag of usd, to do them in. and yet nobody's done ?
mircea_popescu: but yes, your intuition is broadly correct : usg lacks both the actual size and the self-perceived size of soviet russia. as a result, they don't come out with a "x per rouble" statement.
asciilifeform: seems to me that anyone with a bag of usd, could thermonuke the gox price-dampener scam.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 04:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, only for as long as they got the 50k or 1 btc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was thinking moar re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817438 thread. it is almost certainly the case that the usg gox ensemble would try to prevent a hypothetical usg-long mircea_popescu from buying up all of the coin and sending price to maxint. but what could they do to prevent 9000 types of insect who show up to buy 9k coin to take to 'we give 50k/per' dispenser.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 16:26 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: possibly they dun trust the employees to handle cash ? or aren't contracted with cash van co.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and the cable cost 9.92 usd, but in total crate cost 57.58 usd , plus whatever BingoBoingo paid ( anything ? bus fares ? )
BingoBoingo: Everything after the scans were ack'd spent waiting for inspection.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 15:04 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817293 << i started writing a lispy make-temp-directory but the implementation is not particularly elegant (C concerns are at odds with lisp concerns), you can pouch the ccl bits though. i'm not sure if there's a better way to do errno handling, without relying on private ccl symbols
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817664 << did you mean "poach" as in what a poacher (hunter on other's lands) does ?
Mocky: reminds me of the time I 'invented' the trie in anger, meanwhile knuth vol 3 sitting on my desk (having not finished vol 1)
Mocky: well I've seen the bitcoin foundation page before so evidently 'mocky invented' ~= 'mocky pulled from subconscious'
mod6: good to hear that in some form or fashion, things can make it there.
a111: Logged on 2015-02-03 19:37 PeterL: mircea_popescu: "You do not have, nor you can ever acquire the right to use, copy or distribute this software" << should be "nor can you ever"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817644 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-03#1004896 (see eg http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html )
mircea_popescu is unsure mocky is ready for the whoa.
BingoBoingo: Much as dollars in Uruguay are U$S and pesos are $, the index unit appears as UI or IU
BingoBoingo: https://www.agesic.gub.uy/innovaportal/v/6409/17/agesic/sa.html?padre=6407&idPadre=6 << This page shows the assorted filing fees as pesos
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 07:15 ben_vulpes: lobbes, BingoBoingo (and mod6 and asciilifeform, mircea_popescu if he's inclined) here's a draft of the copy for the shared hosting landing page: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PcA2p/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817568 << When I tell the girls I am reading on the balcony they always ask "What book?"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: https://www.agesic.gub.uy/innovaportal/v/2462/1/agesic/empresa_en_el_dia.html << One of serveral .gov.uy portals on the subject
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: possibly they dun trust the employees to handle cash ? or aren't contracted with cash van co. << Also common here
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: is there a reason not to go straight to city hall or wherever the magic actually happens ? << The paperwork prices for the gov's part is published online in a 3rd local currency, the "Index Unit" which needs to be converted to pesos.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: possibly they dun trust the employees to handle cash ? or aren't contracted with cash van co.
ave1: I will look into it further, but I have no time for it right now.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 14:49 spyked: ave1, ^ if the error looks too cryptic, or if you've encountered it on broken systems -- or if you know that the system compiler is used at all, then don't let me waste your time. can report again after experimenting on system with proper gcc.
ave1: spyked, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817663, no problem in fact the opposite. This helps in getting the cowwebs out of the build process (I've also tested on machines with gcc 7). The build process is picking up the glibc linux headers at a point where only musl headers should be used. This is usually caused by a system library being picked up in the build process.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817526 << I am wary of brining payments to the datacenter that they might lose, and during the earliest meetings they wrinkled their noses when I offered the possiility of showing up with envelopes of cash while waiting for a local bank account. I suspect they have a cultural hangup against eating anything other than wires due to their self images.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is there a reason not to go straight to city hall or wherever the magic actually happens ?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 04:43 ben_vulpes: needs a wire and a WU-gram; and speaking of, BingoBoingo anything to report on the .uy corp formation front?
phf: (i think a proper lisp interface ought to separate pathname defaults from the name pattern, so you call it like (m-t-d "fooXXX" #p"/tmp/") but return #p"/tmp/fooabc/". that's not a consequential concern for anyone except for me though)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817293 << i started writing a lispy make-temp-directory but the implementation is not particularly elegant (C concerns are at odds with lisp concerns), you can pouch the ccl bits though. i'm not sure if there's a better way to do errno handling, without relying on private ccl symbols
spyked: ave1, ^ if the error looks too cryptic, or if you've encountered it on broken systems -- or if you know that the system compiler is used at all, then don't let me waste your time. can report again after experimenting on system with proper gcc.
spyked: native gcc on the system is indeed >4 (5.4 to be more precise), but I expected that one to not be used at all? anyway, that might it. in this case I expect my next run to finish without trouble.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It appears the crate will be arriving today
spyked: I'll also give it a shot on a machine with native gcc 4.9 (trying to do this in the weekend), to see if there's something wrong the system headers on the other one (so far this is the only guess I have re the failure)
spyked: hey, ave1! I gave http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-partial-and-parallel-build-support/ a run and I'm sad to report that it failed. attached a screenlog of the run at http://lmogo.xyz/randomio/gnat-musl-screenlog.0 (notice: file is ~5MB in size). unfortunately my hands are full now, so I've no time to dig further, but I'll provide any further info if you need.
Mocky: I can make it post, then it will show on main page, and archive
asciilifeform: or rather, only in header, but not in article list
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-05-23 05:16 ben_vulpes: Mocky: why's that ada article not on the homepage of yer blog?
mircea_popescu: comparable to how copernicus needn't have been concerned re how the scholastics all agreed with themselves. of course they did, as part and parcel of what their cognitive system evben was, "consensus interpretations of aristotle".
mircea_popescu: except they're not 500 people in the first place, leave aside independent or intelligent. they're not even disjunct, they're just trying to monkey each other.
mircea_popescu: your objection pretends to feed itself from "oh, there are 500 people here, they're all independent, and disjunct, and intelligent, what are the odds NO ONE ELSE found magos edible ?!?!".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817453 << it's not so hard to end up the only repository of truth in a consensus-seeking group. the only thing consensus-seeking does predictably and well is error.
ben_vulpes: plans" should be, so look at pricing as well. if these rates are attractive to the market and we get out there and flog 'em i think there's some money to be made
ben_vulpes: landing pages and ad copy is not a gadget i know how to work, so let me know what you think. this also has what i think the "
ben_vulpes: lobbes, BingoBoingo (and mod6 and asciilifeform, mircea_popescu if he's inclined) here's a draft of the copy for the shared hosting landing page: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PcA2p/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: also much easier for user to interact with meaningfully, as the only way fs gets used up is by user personally putting something there ; whereas ram is eaten by 3rd party requests.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how is ram different from fs in the context of http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-18#358183
mircea_popescu: it's the only amount of useful that makes sense. think about it : the whole point of the box is to pool resources. if you have 100 users and each can at all times use 1/100 of the ram you get much worse results than if there's 100 users and they can use whatever ram's available ; and if it gets too tight you start politely inviting the larger consumers to move up ion the world.
mircea_popescu: it basically makes sure you can always talk to the box, even if apache maxes out, you won't be locked out of using say ssh.