mircea_popescu: now, the fence separating the 2nd scale 0-epsilon from the rest of the world doesn't necessarily keep inside 0-epsilons on the first scale.
mircea_popescu: suppose there's a measure of human fitness, not quite IQ but anyway, just as insanely, a positive integer scalar. suppose there's a measure of human confusion, going from 0 (full pantrsuit, actually believes socialism is a thing, etc) to 1 (actual republican).
mircea_popescu: soviet survives while it can keep the large mass of epsilonians inside.
mircea_popescu: no, it just somehow manages to deliver 100% of what needs delivery to the marginal. it does nothing to you, and the fact that it manages to keep kazure captive is of no consequence
asciilifeform: crapple-pnoje has the 'background proggy gets kill -STOP after 30 sec' thing
mircea_popescu: how the empire manages to ~DELIVER~ right around the fence is one of the most remarkable mysteries.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-26 21:20 hanbot: mircea_popescu by design apple exists to try and make you use its thing, whether it's some itam or some os or some cable, and it'll make things maximally unpleasant for anyone not on the bandwagon, at any point where the nonapple and the apple touch.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can only admire the level of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829969 conspiraci : clueless girly logs on, it ~immediately~ resets its connection and launches a new one. 100% the cheapest most effectual confusion factor.
asciilifeform: lol expired on the operating table ?
mircea_popescu: not to mention it readily explains a lot of other things, such as why we opress the stupid, the poor, the "alternatively" sexuate, the bizarrely literate etcetera.
asciilifeform: programming sans wot is rather similar to surgery pre-handwash. yer playing the 'did he take a shit that morning' lottery.
mircea_popescu: which is why the whole wot thing works so well for it.
mircea_popescu: the only blessing is that you can cut off nodes.
asciilifeform: Mocky: 'expense' is not even a proper description. there aint enuff money on planet3 to buy e.g. transformation of microshit coadbase to anywhere near sanity.
asciilifeform: there are folx who labour under illusion that other approaches are possible, but they won't like where their lift is going.
mircea_popescu: and moreover, it is the only possible approach.
asciilifeform: there is really nuffin magic or arcane re the dijstrean approach to programming. from asciilifeform's pov, it is simply continuation of the old su approach to engineering, where parts have not only physical mass but complexity-mass, and a rifle with 7 parts that take 28 mill cuts to make is superior to one with 47 that take 200 cuts, even if weighs same
mircea_popescu: just because it happens that in all other cases of "you're in charge of so-and-so-chapter of defense budget/film budget/family budget" one gets a fixed number to work with, whereas here the number's not aforeknown... makes entirely no difference. it's still budgetary exercise, that superficial difference is meaningless given the substantial identity.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 18:19 mircea_popescu: esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?"
mircea_popescu: specifically, writing software is not some kind of hired work, like polishing boots or cutting hair. writing software is a dignity, in the exact sense there contemplated : republic gives you, ivan ivanovich, a budget of so many lines, as if it were so many bitcoins, to ~EXPEND~ in a defensible, meaningful, useful an' rational fashion ( hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832667 discussion ).
a111: Logged on 2017-12-05 14:17 asciilifeform: as for asciilifeform , he would actually prefer if mircea_popescu shot straight and said 'hell no i won't pay for no stinkin' software', rather than the peculiar ritual of having a contest, then to proclaim the submitters as a whole 'self-indulgent indolent' and then in the end to take s.nsa crypto lib and use for phree anyway
a111: Logged on 2018-06-21 15:33 asciilifeform: Mocky: to function as a troo vtronicist, gotta grasp the concept, described by e.g. dijkstra, that a line of code you have written is not an asset, but an expense. (specifically, an expense against the time budget of other thinking people, who must read and grasp what you have written. )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828036 << this has been sloshing through my head for a while now ; and while it seems eminently correct a stance, and rather very much the manner in which we've been conducting our affairs to date, it readily also provides a solution for the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746522
mircea_popescu: though if you're willing to spend money on silver tootpick why not just fix the holes.
asciilifeform: https://titaner-store.com/products/toothpicks << at least 1 vendor making these today, apparently
mircea_popescu: silver ones were kinda common during one of the silver crazes
asciilifeform: asciilifeform once saw -- i shit thee not -- titanium toothpicks for sale
mircea_popescu: they're not very well made, for sabers.
mircea_popescu: broke them all trying to stab various butts & parts over time.
mircea_popescu: just thought the record should recleft.
mircea_popescu: i'm having for breakfast leftover sandwiches that were originally made for camping on the beach, so i figure... what the hell... and made myself a little model campfire out of toothpicks in the middle of the table.
asciilifeform: ( for all i know, they're already in, dressed up as gpg keys by somebody or other... )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in heathendom , https://archive.fo/RVOJd << stuxnet-style 'oops, taiwan 'lost' microshit signing keys' rerun.
mircea_popescu: in other similar news, star quest tcg is a pretty fucking great game. polished and shit, apparently you can still have web development that's not crap
asciilifeform: ^ d00d has own crackpot x86 os and various other tidbits.
asciilifeform: ( (1) was not the only instance, there were several, above link is most recent where asciilifeform was still resisting )
a111: Logged on 2018-04-02 22:04 asciilifeform: trinque, phf , other vtronicists : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html
asciilifeform: in the interest of proper log walks , 1) trinque whacks asciilifeform over the head with the headache of fileism, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765542 2) asciilifeform builds a trinqueian vtron frontend, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-02#1792071
mircea_popescu: fwiw, memory never was anything other than "personally advantageous". them wetram cells gotta pay the glucose bills.
phf: personally-advantageous-obfuscation by reference-by-memory, we're reinventing the empire here
mircea_popescu: and the smalle third brother is reference-by-memory, where i say dumb shit like "that @@ discussion" instead of putting in a link.
asciilifeform: imho dispensing with 'files as a unit' is The Right Thing, rather than complicated graph walkers. but i'ma not replay the trinque thread.
phf: i figured that's not the case, i'm just reiterating the logs for the logs, because the evil twin of not reading the logs is apparently forgetting what was read in the logs
phf: btcbase (being a sprawling common lisp beast) has one of the possible solutions actually implemented and working. i'm wrestling the essence of it out, enough to add some kind of graph sorter to vtools
phf: originally my replacement was for diffing and patching exclusively, not the graph resolution problems. i was tasked with a replacement around the time when my food work got heavy, and i'm only now revisiting it. the problem wasn't even verbalized until closer the the end of vtools development, because particular choice of vtools delivery demonstrated the problem to begin with
asciilifeform: iirc his replacement still follows the ancient algo.
mircea_popescu: recall, the huge discussion re patch / vpatch ?
asciilifeform: ( in trinquian algo, it is impossible to create multiple paths to the same state without creating a cycle, and the latter are detected by the cycle finder )
asciilifeform: i suppose there is also the other variant, where manifest.txt actually gets speshul treatment. but imho that's ugly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the headache is from the fact of notion of 'file' having been baked quite firmly into unix patch util. the only 'final solution' presently known to asciilifeform for the entire class of topological ugh, is the trinquian cut.
mircea_popescu: however much time you might need to think, there isn't very much time altogether, because we can't sit around with an unresolved dilemma of both "this is the grapher use it" and "don't use it, doesn't work".
mircea_popescu: there isn't very much time!
phf: well, i'm having hard time thinking about it, yet alone articulating it. like i told ascii (before we continued talking about it anyway), i need some time to reupload the problem, because i haven't thought about it in a while.
phf: mircea_popescu: the problem i describe exists in every single V implementation, hence none of them can press a particular graph
mircea_popescu: so if it's built around patches and the patches are different what difference does it make that two different patches might apply the same tranforms to the same files ?
mircea_popescu: the only reason i can imagine someone'd have the problem you describe is if they built their thing around the primitive "file" rather than around the primitive "patch"
mircea_popescu: let me ask you this : is your visualizer essentially a by-file processor ? because this'd be wrong, the concept of "file" is meaningless, entirely just like "new line". text administration flows by viewport and so on.
phf: mircea_popescu: i didn't say more than one vpatch are identical, i said that they shouldn't contain identical changes. a single vpatch can contain changes for several files. if two vpatches have a same subset of changes to individual files you have a problem.
mircea_popescu: how are you distinguishing those more than one patches of the same content by the same name ?
mircea_popescu: moreover, how can "more than one" vpatch be ~identical~ ? items of the same name and contents are the only items that have the same hash, which is the only basis for identity.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833125 << something the manifest should actually fix ; if it's included why doesn't it fix it ?
phf: (btcbase doesn't choke on circular graphs, though in a general case it bails. if the circle is in the descendants order is determined by walk's order of entry, a circle back to genesis though can still be broken by explicitly designated something as "genesis", etc.)
phf: well, i kind of dig the emergent v graph behaviors, so i don't mind it either way, though btcbase doesn't press cleanly either (^ "all extant V's"). nothing keeping one from tacking on additional state to a crystalized vpatch either, and then you're stuck with another "though shall not, because reasons"
asciilifeform: i was the loudest whine against the trinqueian algo, but then grasped the wisdom of it meself and actually wrote a working proggy for it
phf: yeah, obviously total state eliminates all the "multiple state transitions in a single vpatch" related problems
asciilifeform: phf: right, i grasped this, hence why i wrote a demo impl of trinqueian algo ( http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html ) which actually does solve it
phf: manifest doesn't solve this problem, because manifest doesn't get any kind of priority treatment. if you hinged your press purely on a manifest descendent/antecedent chain then everything else will just workâ˘
phf: if you want to reduce the problem to a "don't do this" policy, then it stems from repeated hunks across multiple vpatches, i.e. if you have two or more vpatches that have identical state transitions. something like that is bound to happen when you're attempting to port a feature between branches, as is the case with vtools. (i.e. you patched foo.c in one file "remove broken behavior", you now want to also introduce same fix to the other branch)
phf: in order to produce a graph there's a walk to root phase, the walk keeps track of press state at each node and dismisses connections edges that result in an invalid state. now WHY this is needed is because each individual vpatch doesn't keep track of the entire state, but only about its particular subset of state that changed.
phf: ah see the graph is misleading, because btcbase base grapher culls it. we've ran into similar issue back in the heavy experimental trb days, so one of the very first things that the btcbase distinguished itself on is producing a graph of possible presses, rather than pure antecedent/descendent. this was discussed and documented in the logs, in before "why you do that!1"
asciilifeform: so if the 2 are genuinely separate items, why would it break on press
phf: there is a manifest in this version of vtools
phf: asciilifeform: well, i'm not sure what "spuriously bifurcated tree" means in this case, the goal was stated in the one of the posts, that i'm explicitly maintain two separate branches, that hinge on two separate manifest paths. this is the kind of stuff v is designed for neh? press to vdiff_sha_static to get one thing, press to vtools_vpatch_newline to get the other
asciilifeform: it should still press tho ( into a broken proggy, but this is the fault of whoever forgot to unify the tree )
asciilifeform: the http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vtools picture suggests that it's the classic mistake of spuriously bifurcated tree, the kind of thing that had trinque & mircea_popescu raging in the old days and prompted manifest.txt etc
phf: asciilifeform: nope, another form that as of now doesn't have a name
phf: like i said couple of days ago i'm going to forward merge that whole right side, right now the only advise is to delete the right hand side because none of the extant V's can resolve that graph, obviously a suboptimal suggestion. i'm working on a better grapher, but until then..
mod6: oh nb. deleted one side of the tree, now it's ok eh?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-20 04:03 trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LlO7Z/?raw=true << doesn't seem like it's flowing the whole way down one branch, unless I've got tired eyes over here
diana_coman: I even remember the issue being discussed now that you mention it
spyked: that oughta work. I can't find the discussion where phf recommended this approach of keeping just one side of the tree in the patchset.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-21 11:48 spyked: it might also in a way be interesting to report how I stumbled upon this: I tried to recompile gnupg-1.4.10 on my broken debian system and got the same "multiple definition" linking errors as in vtools' case (though I *did* use gcc<5). so I dug and found the usual kochs "fixing" things to compile gnupg on newer gccs.
spyked: diana_coman, I think v.pl will press either side of the http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vtools tree (keccak or sha), but not both. also, re. error, vtools_fixes_static_tohex should fix it. I've also encountered the linking error in e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-21#1816314 and earlier.
diana_coman: phf, I'm having trouble with latest vtools it seems (gcc and gnat version at the end of paste): http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WJios/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: the asinine hoops.
asciilifeform: perhaps one day they'll learn to change the battery in the nsa tap without resetting folx..
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 23:12 Mocky: so then the auction would go like a buy order for $1025 USD, with an opening bid of 0.15 BTC. Then a bid of 0.14 BTC overbids. This seems like all around a pretty convenient thing.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 22:26 mircea_popescu: and thusly keep transactions in the republic denominated in the currency of the republic.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 22:25 mircea_popescu: the correct solution is to distinguish selling and buying auctions. change the "A#285" lede into either "B#285" or "S#285" and then if it's a S have it work as it works now, but if it's a B have it work ~reverse~, so smaller bids overbid larger bids.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 01:53 mircea_popescu: esthlos can't select portions of your blog! but anyway, "Make a new patch with esthlos-v_genesis and some node of the EuCrypt tree as parents." wasn't contemplated, because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592769
asciilifeform: old-fashioned pluggable hose kvm is typically equally laughable, but at least there you don't keep it around 24/7
asciilifeform: i can only with great difficulty picture it being the ~only~ door, has the flavour of a decoy, 'hey we found & fixed, what do you want'
asciilifeform: ( and the linked item is typical, usually it's a laughable hardcoded pw, cisco-style )
mircea_popescu: is this the kvm thing ?
asciilifeform: meanwhile, via #p, in re fritzisms : http://archive.is/YiLsi << '...separate Ethernet network connection and run a proprietary embedded server management technology that provides out-of-band management features... curl -H "Connection: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"' << hardcoded nsa pw.
lobbes: also opens up the possibility of, say, bidding on job contracts, etc
Mocky: so then the auction would go like a buy order for $1025 USD, with an opening bid of 0.15 BTC. Then a bid of 0.14 BTC overbids. This seems like all around a pretty convenient thing.
mircea_popescu: and thusly keep transactions in the republic denominated in the currency of the republic.
mircea_popescu: the correct solution is to distinguish selling and buying auctions. change the "A#285" lede into either "B#285" or "S#285" and then if it's a S have it work as it works now, but if it's a B have it work ~reverse~, so smaller bids overbid larger bids.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 20:49 lobbes: mod6: I'll work to see if I can spin up a custom fiat-for-btc version of the auctionbot for you to use next month.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 20:47 mod6: we need an auction bot that can do other things.
lobbes: mod6 I would gladly work to earn that grant. As it is, I already need to get the 'legacy' auctionbot away from heathen dependencies (in this case, the 'supybot' api), so in building this custom auctionbot for pizarro I may just take the opportunity to design something sitting atop ircbot/logbot and eventually release a proper genesis
mod6: Furthermore, it's such a worthy project that The Bitcoin Foundation should entertain grant proposals for the hosting of the bot & it's corresponding webpage.
mod6: That would be wildly helpful. Something such as that, could basically replace the entire OTC.
lobbes: mod6: I'll work to see if I can spin up a custom fiat-for-btc version of the auctionbot for you to use next month.
mod6: I need the buyer to make a WU payment or Wire Transfer to a destination that will be sent to the buyer. Upon completion of the WU or Wire Transfer, the bitcoins will be sent to whatever address you specify.
mod6: Everyone, I am selling BITCOIN in two chunks, each of 0.15 BTC in size. These are selling for $1025 USD.
diana_coman: it does seem to me that you need the functionality of lobbes's bot but with different parameters basically so perhaps customised, pizarro bot
mod6: we need an auction bot that can do other things.
diana_coman: well, you are selling btc, right? so your "item" is 1.5bn coppers and the opening bid is 1025$; granted I'm not sure how would that work with lobbes's auction bot since the price there is in Ecu aka satoshis
diana_coman: mod6, I find that confusing there: the auctions effectively state you are selling 1025$, not btc
mod6: I started up two auctions, selling 0.15 BTC chunks for a minimum of $1025 USD each. Winning bidder will send a WU payment or Wire Transfer to a specified WU location or Bank Account after the auction is closed. The winner will wait until receipt of the WU or Wire Transfer is complete before recieving coins won in auction.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-26 05:35 asciilifeform: the world of 1985, where there were a thousand ~state-of-the-art~ chip fabs, under two+ separate civilizational systems, and running perhaps a dozen ~entirely independently developed~ toolchains - isn't coming back
asciilifeform: in other noose, marvell buys cavium . ( in re http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-26#1213025 running thread )
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 14:46 phf: i'm remembering when i was in costa rica there was a couple of days when it was raining non stop, and it was "muggy" and everything was constantly wet. visions of tropical diseases from the age of exploration books
a111: Logged on 2017-01-06 13:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phun phakt, i replicated phuctor on a mac lappy (it happened to be the one in the room with sufficient free disk) and it works -- except that apparently gdb no longer works on latest crapple os
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 16:03 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832943 << same here, and generally throughout the logs. even phf mostly yielded ye olde box.
mircea_popescu: and makes the krummem Holze quite apparent : a) they make substitute whipping implement that then b) they make the women use among themselves.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is one of the few details i actually knew, re corset
mircea_popescu: comes as close to giving the woman a good beating as humanly possible without welts and leather straps. which ~makes me suspect~ it was very much not coincidental
mircea_popescu: woman lived in the 1920s after all.
phf: in america corsets are predominantly worn by overweight "doms", and they are bought from goth costume stores, a very peculiar item, that ensures that any mention of "corset" in the conversation indicates a loser
mircea_popescu: and when i say "stepped beyond the corset" i mean, that she proposed the first recipe for obtaining lady (ie, lordship female) that is both a) dressed and b) not in a corset.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 14:21 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832930 << i see corsets etc in approx same light that mircea_popescu prolly sees toyotas with flames painted on them. but possibly that's just asciilifeform .
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832946 << a) they were the standard undergarment for dressed up female longer&wider than ~any other item ; b) they are actually a very faberge-like engineering item. i propose your disinterest is merely driven by your never having seen an item, either at rest or in use. but no, not toyota, rather http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1832121
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 14:12 ave1: I also have to sometimes help people with macs, by now this always ends with me giving them advice to thrash the thing.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832943 << same here, and generally throughout the logs. even phf mostly yielded ye olde box.
BingoBoingo: I don't know if Costa Rica gets cold in the way Uruguay does
phf: i'm remembering when i was in costa rica there was a couple of days when it was raining non stop, and it was "muggy" and everything was constantly wet. visions of tropical diseases from the age of exploration books
phf: BingoBoingo: is it still muggy down there?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-09 02:22 mircea_popescu: basically, stepped beyond the corset ; something in her line much in the vein of "let's make sewing machine that ~doesn't try to immitate seamstres hand~" or "let's try and make flying machine that ~doesn't try to immitate bird~". creativity is creativity, resistence of medium is resistence of medium, can find a lot to like about fashion designer.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832930 << i see corsets etc in approx same light that mircea_popescu prolly sees toyotas with flames painted on them. but possibly that's just asciilifeform .
ave1: I also have to sometimes help people with macs, by now this always ends with me giving them advice to thrash the thing.
ave1: yes, It's the process of going sarting with "why am I not getting any core dumps" to "o hey the kernel will call a program to handle core dumps" to "O fuck, systemd is called". And then systemd with all of it's policies and pure stupidity.
BingoBoingo: <phf> ave1: i believe we're beyond linux haters now, this is the uncharted territory of everyone being an idiot << I am pretty sure this line was crossed irrevcably sometime between 2011 and 2015. Now we are just hitting new frontiers of idiocy
phf: ave1: i believe we're beyond linux haters now, this is the uncharted territory of everyone being an idiot
ave1 grabs his copy of "The LINUX-HATERS handbook"
a111: Logged on 2014-09-03 11:56 mircea_popescu: By default, systemd saves core dumps to the journal, instead of the file system. Core dumps must be explicitly queried using coredumpctl4. Besides going against all reason, it also creates complications in multi-user environments (good luck running gdb on your program's core dump if it's dumped to the journal and you don't have root access)
mircea_popescu: basically, stepped beyond the corset ; something in her line much in the vein of "let's make sewing machine that ~doesn't try to immitate seamstres hand~" or "let's try and make flying machine that ~doesn't try to immitate bird~". creativity is creativity, resistence of medium is resistence of medium, can find a lot to like about fashion designer.
asciilifeform: and largely associated with spam in my head, being the only place i ever encountered said strings.
mircea_popescu: afaik it was the discotards that introduced them into zek wardrobe. definitely 70s item
asciilifeform: to carry on with analogy, it is not yet even clear to asciilifeform whether there even is a kitchen beneath the writhing mass.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> lasting-er impact, as a fashionista, than as one of these, whatever they are, "intellectuals" or so. << Whoever came up with those graft jeans has a legacy
mircea_popescu: and ~just as~ in the computer case, fashion also has some kind of vague relation with objective realities. somewhat. tit holes usually go in front, registers usually go on a bus, sorta level of reality constraint.
mircea_popescu: lasting-er impact, as a fashionista, than as one of these, whatever they are, "intellectuals" or so.
mircea_popescu: if my slavegirl coco asked me in the 50s if i recommend she go into fashion or into computing, she'd still have been coco chanel.
asciilifeform still finds it surreal that anybody wanted anyffing whatsoever to do with debian after the 'bug'
mircea_popescu: of course, this may just be a problem of optics. apple tree keeps on giving for 30+ years, debian so far smoking nervously in the 1st decade corner.
mircea_popescu: i guess the cosmic ray is still powered on.
mircea_popescu: this is the "default genesis" so to speak of any signature's seals. if the owner patches upon it, to make it eg "this is a lulz signature, will sign all retarded implementations with it", that'd be his problem, and yours only by the extension of, "why are you trusting signatures without knowing the owner enough to have seen the actual meaning-patch-tree he uses".
mircea_popescu: http://blog.esthlos.com/routes-to-keccak-in-esthlos-v/#footnote_5_24 << signing a patch signifies, at the common basis, a) that the signer has read the patch and that b) in his best effort determination b1) the transformation that the specified patch brings upon b2) the exact codebase specified will not b3) ~introduce~ properties that are b4) novel, unobvious and nefarious (all three).
mircea_popescu: and yes, the effort to understand is not getting cut out.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-29 21:39 mircea_popescu: just search for me screaming "there's only one genesis" and frothing at the mouth.
mircea_popescu: esthlos can't select portions of your blog! but anyway, "Make a new patch with esthlos-v_genesis and some node of the EuCrypt tree as parents." wasn't contemplated, because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592769
asciilifeform: and that's the whole harvest.
asciilifeform: in other lullities :
mircea_popescu: check out the aggressive mp.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/07/another-case-of-human-labor-masquerading-as-ai-exposed/ << Qntra - Another Case Of Human Labor Masquerading As AI Exposed
esthlos: phf I fixed those files if you'd like them, at http://files.esthlos.com/crypto/esthlos-v/v_genesis.vpatch and http://files.esthlos.com/crypto/esthlos-v/v_genesis.vpatch.esthlos.sig
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832731 << looks like yeah, I have ancient vdiff, taken from the classic http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
a111: Logged on 2018-03-07 19:18 mircea_popescu: esthlos i don't get it, you're going to take a stab "at it" ie making a textfile, the sort that only carries any sort of weight or importance if a) you're somebody and b) you're doing something important, in between whenever your fiat job permits you a few hours here and there ?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 23:27 phf: i've been using vpatch/vdiff without full blown v, because i can order the patches by hand (and there's now an explicit ordering provided by manifest), and vpatch verifies the hashes for me. it would be handy if i could also press existing sha patches with `vpatch -a sha` or whatever
esthlos: wrt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832726 and asciilifeform 's "sad mode", the idea of using the manifest was the confusing way the fuck back in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-07#1787163 , where I thought "oh, mp wants me to build a vtron using manifest to resolve tree, guess I need a manifest spec!"
BingoBoingo: At least in winter. In the summer shorts do come out
asciilifeform: phf: at this point, if something dun build under musltronic gnat, the problem is with item, not with the gnat
mircea_popescu: certainly the hasher :D
mircea_popescu: rather than impersonating sourdough miners.
mircea_popescu: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/077-lacul-morii.html#selection-141.182-141.386 << dood has a fucking point. you should see the morons here, i suspect they sleep in the damned things. their idea of "dressing up" is ~a different blouse~ atop the grafted-on jeans. they have shops catering to this specifically, "dress-up blouses shop". in most social situations i actually own 99.9x% of all human females dressed like human females
asciilifeform: y'know, sorta like c compiler in the olden dayz.
asciilifeform: phf: ave1's item is pretty great, it resulted in tarballs containing working bins of amd64 and arm64 gnat; the latter worx great on my desk rockchip. the only item that dunwork of yet is the repeat of said process ~on~ arm64 (to crossbuild amd64 gnat there)
mircea_popescu: just has a very personal relationship with the poor lang, fo sho.
phf: he's a crypto-alchemist, leaving hints in the logs for future generations
asciilifeform: phf: as discussed in the recent diana_coman thread, if you want systemwide musl-anythings, gotta have a pure musl box.
asciilifeform: phf: only on a system where the systemwide crapola is traditional (glibc) and your musl item is a homedir-local build, a la rotor.
phf: asciilifeform: is it possible to combine musl and libc on a same gentoo system (gentoo insists i use something they call crossdev, i haven't yet looked into it further) (i'm using your aarch64 gentoo root file system)?
asciilifeform: and quite correctly, you cannot link these with anything that it itself did not build.
phf: ok, thank you. afaiu though ave1's build is potentially missing all kinds of system integration components, or is the retargeting against custom ada stdlib optional?
asciilifeform: phf: ave1's recent breakthrough was specifically this -- a rotor-style cross-compile process that takes an existing amd64 gnat, and builds a particular other gnat for whatever arch
phf: ave1, asciilifeform or other ada specialists, how did you bootstrap a gnat on aarch64? is there some binary that's floating around (because adacore doesn't seem to have linux-aarch64 build) or is it bootstrapped using a cross compiler on a x86 linux?
asciilifeform: it aint as if they dun know how to generate rando key to go with spamola rando luser acct tho.
asciilifeform: sadly i dun have 'the genuine figs', all i got is this.
asciilifeform: or hm, nm, closer look shows 395480 old mods; they ended up (correctly) marked for retest by asciilifeform's ancient logic
asciilifeform: per above, we get the astonishing find that, since 2016 , all but 498 lusers either: a) got booted from shithub or b) swapped key
asciilifeform: in other noose, snarfing complete, 2nd dupe found, http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E7F1A77C5BC62EBC7D363251EA4A619BD704ED95C32BC5099917934CAB1EA41
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/077-lacul-morii.html << The Tar Pit - A photographic tour of Bucharest; in today's issue: Lacul Morii
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 13:47 spyked: asciilifeform, phathub file contains RSA e and N only. but that's a good point, should also post the other ones under some raw form.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832552 <-- updated with non-rsa keys: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-220.0-220.4
a111: Logged on 2018-07-08 04:27 ave1: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832709, this seems to me to be a duplicate key. But maybe I misunderstand? (i.e. N an e are the same, user is the same but github key id is different)
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-08#1832806 <-- it certainly looks this way, these are keys that are in both the phathub-2015 and 2018 datasets, and this particular one belongs to the same user. but note that the 2018 one doesn't have a key id (I inserted the user id instead), that one was only available when grabbing the key through the API.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832633 <-- ok. this'll be a very good exercise for the spyked patch-making muscle, I need it.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832697 <-- historical walk of users by id, yes. but keys are grabbed via shithub.usg/luser.keys, which yields luser's set of keys at the time of the curl.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 14:44 mircea_popescu: re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-149.0-153.220 : you should see the "easy to detect" over @ fetlife, fucktards have five dozen DIFFERENT failure modes, all of them ujust as "specifically laid out". bot code is 60% "handle inept error pages" by mass. so fucking evident it's the result of "incremental development", too.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832560 <-- yeah, one of the fun (if messy) parts in exploring the beast's entrails. can notice clearly the worms eating at it.
ave1: phf, link was wrong should have been: http://ave1.org/tarpit/tmsr-pgp-genesis.vpatch.ave1.sig. I updated the link in the post.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 21:46 asciilifeform: in yet-other lulz, we have our first idjit with ~current~ key that sits down straight on an old popped mod : http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/391BBDCC87CBADA0F891176D9D45D80B7D5D076E4551151F42B104B717F5E449
ave1: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832709, this seems to me to be a duplicate key. But maybe I misunderstand? (i.e. N an e are the same, user is the same but github key id is different)
a111: Logged on 2018-07-07 04:26 mircea_popescu: actually... i suppose might as well get the whole pile archived
mircea_popescu: does look like the chinos stole a hellenistic item.
asciilifeform: ( iirc they had it on official issue well into 19th c ! )
asciilifeform: repeating fire for 'hosedown' is alluring temptation, recall the quite sad and underpowered chinese multishot arbalest
mircea_popescu: www.historic-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/the-puckle-gun.jpg << item
mircea_popescu: (and if anyone's curious why the cichlids are such a big deal pantsuit item -- brooding habits, every individual of either gender does ~nothing all day besides "helping" the young, by which they also mean adolescents)
asciilifeform: this kind of thing is alive & well today, in pharma biznis, which asciilifeform had the misfortune of being involved in.
asciilifeform: granted, early cannon was nearly as lethal to the artillerist as to enemy. but that was state of art in 1500. turret pistol seems like a step back..
mircea_popescu: men. that's why the species has males, so they attempt to raise cichlids, rear children, fire turret pistols, go to the moon...
asciilifeform: http://www.horstheld.com/0-Cochran.htm << mircea_popescu's item. hilarious, who the fuck would fire this.
asciilifeform: horizontal ~drums~ work ok, as in rpd ( https://topwar.ru/14415-degtyarev-pehotnyy-pulemetu-dp-85-let.html ) , but these had a bolt & extractor
mircea_popescu: (yes, including the round facing operator)
mircea_popescu: (ftr, turret pistol actually existed -- borne out of that "supporter of creativity" that's ustardian "intellectual property" laws. worked as well as anything the socialists ever sired ever worked.)
mircea_popescu: if you have one, everyone can use their own homebrew keccak see if it works.
mircea_popescu: if you have many hashes a) you won't have them all properly supported ever ; b) nobody's going to have multi-implementations for most of it.
mircea_popescu: in the sense turret-pistol would.
asciilifeform: ability to use variant hashers in v would seem to go with the nonspecificity-of-diddling philosophy tho.
asciilifeform: and yes, i like it largely because not crowned by hitler. ( tho admittedly there is no way to prove the negative of hitlerian authorship for it, the author set of it iirc intersects with that of aes , which ~was~ crowned )
asciilifeform: ( admitting , however, asciilifeform does not know of any proof that the longer keccaks are actually stronger )
mircea_popescu: the advantage of keccak for this application is tghat it ~intakes~ arbitrary lengthj
mircea_popescu: keccak came out of that. it's all in the logs.
mircea_popescu: the whole discussion went 1. there can only be one ; 2. sure as fuck won't be hitler's ; 3. pick something
asciilifeform: aside from old-stuff-we're-doomed-to-regrind-for-new-vtron-anyway, largely in the keccak win of being able to emit arbitrarily long hash
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then you end up with hash state machine, and with "oh, this x hash item matches that y hash" lulz and etc.
phf: asciilifeform: well, that would be one of the reasons why "hasher gotta be hardwired". vtools give you hard guarantees about the format of the patch, the state of the press, that can actually be manipulated outside of unix soup
asciilifeform: in other noose, 1807113 keyz swallowed, containing 1646811 new mods.
asciilifeform: as for keccak, util oughta take a bitness arg ( sorta half the win from keccak, is that you can demand e.g. kilobit hash output )
asciilifeform: i still dun fully grasp why hasher gotta be hardwired into the vtron. what's the point of even having a shell if not for pluggable items like hash.
mircea_popescu: or if we actually took ourselves seriously enough to get rid of the dumb shit.
phf: i've been using vpatch/vdiff without full blown v, because i can order the patches by hand (and there's now an explicit ordering provided by manifest), and vpatch verifies the hashes for me. it would be handy if i could also press existing sha patches with `vpatch -a sha` or whatever
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> and what's the point of not shooting said maid needn't be answered because maid-council established "you couldn't do that", and what maid council establishes fucking goes, or what. << Plan seems to be fuck off and leave confused maid and maid council behind
phf: now the reason i kept the branches separate is because i was expecting a rapid switch to keccak as soon as one's available, so the need to deal with sha patches would've been rare. that's not the case, and i want to have similar functionality available for both sha and keccak until there's no more active sha patches in the wild.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832417 << so far only one patch is using keccak, the new patches that came out are all sha512 and none of the existing projects attempted a regrind
mircea_popescu: and what's the point of not shooting said maid needn't be answered because maid-council established "you couldn't do that", and what maid council establishes fucking goes, or what.
BingoBoingo: The latest news out of Venezuela is that the Maid won't reliably show up to work because Maduro is handing out free food, and what's the point of working when there's food handouts
asciilifeform: ( these, as alert reader prolly realizes, signal immediately, they do not require bernsteinization to find )
asciilifeform: ( i'm almost surprised there ain't more )