asciilifeform: meanwhile, in dept of 'the lady doth protest too much', http://www.contravex.com/#footnote_12_21699
asciilifeform: however! this does not mean that the 'progress' idiocy where they replaced isa with a stateful monstrosity, is justified -- one could still have an isa-style bus today (i.e. directly addressable by cpu, and cards have simple 'is this for me?' logic, rather than book-length ???? )
asciilifeform: if one is willing to dispense with vintage cards, and take it to the 20MHz or so (beyond which the capacitance of the contacts becomes problem) that's still not anywhere near GB/s
a111: Logged on 2018-08-01 22:29 mircea_popescu: (if the putative fast oscilloscope ever got interfaced with killer micro box, it'd be through isa also, i'm sure.)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838902 << was rereading this thread, and realized that sadly nodice: 16bit (late years) isa, x 8MHz gives you 16MB/sec theoretical max, which is no kind of serious scope at all
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform's local isp has dynamic ip, but changes erry other year or so )
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER it presents in 3 cases per 20 kids in a "temporary class" in north carolina while their school underwent renovation.
mircea_popescu: in other sorta-lulz : ewing's sarcoma is an extrmely rare (sarcomas are in general rare in humans, but this is bone-ish origin, so even rarer) that presents in about 5 cases per million in the us, about 2 cases per million in the rest of the "industrialized world" aka pantsuitlands, and sub 1 per million in the rest of the world in general.
BingoBoingo: * neo-cool21 has quit (Killed (Unit193 (Spam is not permitted on freenode.)) << Oh the IRC-Cops have a filter nao?
mod6: Lords and Ladies, one rockchip has become available (ready by end of the week), who wants it! $75/mo if you sign up for a quarter, $100/mo on a month to month.
asciilifeform: in other quasi-noose, asciilifeform derived the general form of pulse equation for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837163 . and the antenna geometry...
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently they're all domestic routers.
mircea_popescu: lessee... what was the test ?
mircea_popescu: then again, 0 cloacks, so maybe not.
mircea_popescu: me either.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it wouldn't surprise me if the spamola bots were fleanode lusers pwnd via http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838823
BingoBoingo: Aite, I'll walk over and stretch the legs now.
BingoBoingo: Whitened and bleached the random to the point the sweat stains leaked a very pattered yellowing
mircea_popescu: you know, all these "Random names" have a distinct handmade flavour.
mod6: cool. the '196' number is what I received from ben in that latest document that I marked up.
BingoBoingo: mod6: The one in question is "C" correct?
asciilifeform: there's a whole 'underground' market in ye olde goodstuff.
mircea_popescu: (if the putative fast oscilloscope ever got interfaced with killer micro box, it'd be through isa also, i'm sure.)
mircea_popescu: we're not the only ones to have noticed
asciilifeform: phunphakt : the slot connectors are still made.
mircea_popescu: you know, i'm tempted to put "must have 4x isa" on the reqs list for tmsr mobo ANYWAY.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only board holes in current boxen are pcie, and that's megatonne of stateful logic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform could you make it a board ? use the agpx connector lol
mircea_popescu: but in any case usb-+ should not be on mainline kernel. let he who runs rockchip farm patch in the ugly.
asciilifeform: ( there's no reasonable way to connect it to pc , currently )
asciilifeform: incidentally , lack of a sane usb2 chipset is what's holding up the lyso crystal super-FG item
asciilifeform: imho at the very least usb jacks oughta default to 1, and if really needs the uglyhax of 2/3 should have to manually trigger. rather than the current sad.
asciilifeform: i ain't waiting 3 wks to reimage a motherfuckign 64GB stick.
mircea_popescu: losers shouldn't evne have cameras in the first place.
mircea_popescu: yes, you miss out on downloading sony camera contents in such a manner as the "your media contains pictures!!!" popup can shoot "usefully fast". this is not a permitted usecase anyway.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-01 21:33 asciilifeform: building a kernel without xhci would almost certainly do the job tho
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838829 << this is quite conceivably the right solution, and imo a fine candidate for cuntoo list.
asciilifeform: there's likewise a reason i did not publish a 'demon' to go with FG. ideally random bitz oughta live the shortest possible life, and walk shortest possible path from point of birth to use.
asciilifeform: ( erry heathen rng i know of , includes... )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observe that i did not put a ram buffer in FG (aside from the 16bit debias/accumulator ) , it was not happenstance.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-01 01:52 asciilifeform could not muster the fuck-giving to read the payload, has nfi what the thing wants
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as data that is all three of 1) random ; 2) useful and 3) buffered.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eat the l0g...
a111: Logged on 2018-08-01 16:03 asciilifeform: 'After much researching it seems this is NOT a driver bug but a CHANGE in the kernel Serial API semantics. What has happened is that the API now blocks when a Serial device is not indicating it is ready. This included 'open' on a serial device which now can block. Since lots of RS232 serial devices do not bother with any control signals such as DCD (data carrier detect) they never indicate they are ready and open blocks. This is the
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838724 << on the positive score, kernel patch for cuntoo killing this with fire quite feasible.
asciilifeform: for all the usb2/3 suckage, it sadly remains the only means to connect fast external disks to pc.
diana_coman: but now I admit I got angry with ehci after all of today's barfing on the topic
diana_coman: and yes, otherwise I was thinking that a script can't be all that difficult to write for it too
asciilifeform: ( if diana_coman wants to take a crack at this, worx, otherwise asciilifeform will do it later this wk )
diana_coman: ah, built-in ttl serialports sounds good, yes; re problem dun seem to exist, mhm, I'd rather expect it would pop up sooner or later if used intensively in this little&frequent style
asciilifeform: diana_coman: re usb1 forcing, i was thinking the proper pill might be to write a shell thing that parses output of lsusb -t and does the correct magics ; rather than modded kernel
asciilifeform: diana_coman: problem dun seem to exist on my desk rockchip. ( and in the end we'll move the rk FGs over to the convenient built-in TTL serialports )
diana_coman: so hm, on rockchip then FG are actually usable only with manual downgrade of usb port ?
asciilifeform: one type of existing machine where we can't afford to lose usb3 is the rockchip, it would be quite unusable without it ( main disk is solely usb3 )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'nexts' wouldn't affect the existing iron tho.
diana_coman: well yes, and 10 or whatever they come up with next
asciilifeform: building a kernel without xhci would almost certainly do the job tho
asciilifeform: diana_coman: seems that you're right re the flag, it is specific to a nonstandard kernel
diana_coman: other "improved" xxxxhci and stick with uhci/ohci?
diana_coman: after reading around on this mess with the usb speeds, the summary + questions would be: 1. the dwc_otg seems actually specific to raspberry pi so I don't see how it's directly useful atm; am I missing something? 2. the manual/runtime pill so far relies on the companion mechanism to force a USB port down from "high speed" to "full speed" so basically from ehci to uhci/ohci; wouldn't it make more sense to blacklist ehci, xhci and whatever
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The other fishwrap refused to archived cleanly. Failed with a generic "content not available in your region" error page being archived instead.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: from other fishwraps, re qntra, 'The grandson said they’re not selling guns, but reported that two men recently knocked on the door asking if they had gun parts or body armor. Hanabarger reportedly said “no” and showed them inside a storage container. But now they’re wondering if there’s a connection between those men and Tuesday’s raid.'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: afaik that's the only reliable way, usb bus numbering isn't iirc stable across boots
diana_coman: this was on the smg test machine
asciilifeform: diana_coman: interestingly, in my (conventional gentoo) userland, worked as posted ( i.e. with the newline )
diana_coman: so basically that's not for "if more than 2" but rather "always do it"
asciilifeform: incidentally, there is also a potential iron cure, currently FG at pizarro are attached to miniature usb2 hubs. ( asciilifeform was not able to source pure usb1 hubs, but potentially these exist somewhere. )
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu lemme know if the given cure, is curative. ( no change to diana_coman's coad is needed )
asciilifeform: FG is transmit-only. there is literally nothing the attached pc can do ~to~ it, other than cycle the +5 supply ( and even this, strictly if the +5 supply is tied to the pc's )
asciilifeform: usb is evil in 9000 ways. not only the ridiculous complexity, which makes it impractical to use with ~simple~ microcontrollers, msdos boxen, etc. but also the fact that it is impossible to make a ~transmit only~ (or , for that matter, receive-only) usb device, they are mandatorily stateful. which is the fundamental reason why asciilifeform refused to put a usb chip on FG proper.
asciilifeform: pc is the hardcore tard reservation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is sometimes 1 or even 2 rs232 ports , but they go at -12v/+12v , and needs level shifter, which in turn oscillates, and potentially pollutes rng
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's no ttl serial on pc mobo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is there some way to connect as a tty bypass the usb altogether ? i really dun wanna include usb if can be helped.
asciilifeform: ( the above is == to the 'Tip for Linux Users' item in http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html , which i listed as workaround for 'more than 3 pl2303' infamous bugola )
asciilifeform: ( forcing 12MB/s usb1 speed has no effect on FG performance, even 10 FG on 1 jack falls considerably below the max usb1 rate )
asciilifeform: 'usb_serial_generic_read_bulk_callback - urb stopped: -32' specifically, reported also for other usb2ttl chipsets, incl ftdi
mircea_popescu: as in, "i checked, we don't have" or as in "we couldn't possibly have something this fucking stupid o oops there it is how the hell did it sneak in"
mircea_popescu: modprobe -r option << does ditching the "option" bs do anything ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the line_request one is sporadic ( erry dozen or so runs )
diana_coman: that one I got even 8 times in a row there
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I get as I recalled this "[63939.499700] pl2303 ttyUSB0: usb_serial_generic_read_bulk_callback - urb stopped: -32" but I don't see the others, hmm
diana_coman: mod6, I'd say don't worry about it; as a rule though productive people do stuff, not as if they need to "say" productively things
mod6: thought he might wanna talk about his rockchip, so was willing to give him the chance.
mod6: it never fails. answering the door just doesn't work out too well for ole mod6
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I certainly say the last line, don't recall the first 2 but I might have missed them
asciilifeform: btw, diana_coman , mircea_popescu , there's visible sys log barf from pl2303 when operating diana_coman's test :
a111: Logged on 2018-08-01 13:58 asciilifeform: i suspect an oddity with the linux tty subsystem. the Right Thing solution would be to find it. the alternative, ugly solution, is 1) 512 byte buffered reads 2) with timeout .
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838691 << da fuck buffered state machine, defeats the whole purpose of the thing.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i wonder how that fellow's business/revolutionary/technico-theoretical/etc idea is faring these days.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-01 02:55 mod6: douchebag wants the mic
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838608 << incidentally, maybe the correct move re the day's ninjashogun would be to redirect them to whatever castle one feels like ? trilema-mod6 or such.
asciilifeform: i'ma let mircea_popescu say, whether Right Thing is to start with (2) and proceed to (1), or straight to (1) .
asciilifeform: the given 'solution' is absolutely prohibited for FG, tho, it ~must~ operate as blocking read
asciilifeform: 'After much researching it seems this is NOT a driver bug but a CHANGE in the kernel Serial API semantics. What has happened is that the API now blocks when a Serial device is not indicating it is ready. This included 'open' on a serial device which now can block. Since lots of RS232 serial devices do not bother with any control signals such as DCD (data carrier detect) they never indicate they are ready and open blocks. This is the
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ah,ah, the "modprobe -r " lulz, yes
asciilifeform: diana_coman: lulzily, turns out that our horror show is not unknown, https://archive.fo/kRfZy ( spoiler: none of the proposed pills, have any effect
diana_coman: myeah, as battlefield solution that might be the direction to take
asciilifeform: the ideal ugly-an'-reliable pill is prolly a demon that reads both FG 24/7 and alarms if rate is substantially below rated
diana_coman: but yes, this is certainly not going to get solved in 1-2 days by the looks of it
asciilifeform: ( oughta log the timeouts )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma have to do a detailed dig in re the linux tty thing. but this could take a while, and no guarantee of finding culprit in the 100s of MB of open sores liquishit. so you will need the buffer+timeout thing, i suspect.
diana_coman: fwiw eucrypt always gets stuck on the actual "read("
diana_coman: but I'm not comfortable with not knowing wtf in there because it has the potential to blow up very nastily indeed
diana_coman: <asciilifeform> i suspect an oddity with the linux tty subsystem. the Right Thing solution would be to find it. the alternative, ugly solution, is 1) 512 byte buffered reads 2) with timeout . -> this is pretty much my current understanding as well
asciilifeform: possibly asciilifeform is doomed to write the FG-reading daemon after all.
asciilifeform: note that FG outputs not only random bytes, but at random ~rate~ . currently i wonder if we've unearthed an 'impedence mismatch' in linux tty.
asciilifeform: ( the former, ctrl-c'd )
asciilifeform: i suspect an oddity with the linux tty subsystem. the Right Thing solution would be to find it. the alternative, ugly solution, is 1) 512 byte buffered reads 2) with timeout .
diana_coman: but a. WHY don't I have same trouble on any of the machines here b. WHY does it hang anyway c. wtf do I do
asciilifeform: well the 1 obvious diff, is that it defaults to 512byte blocks
diana_coman: anyways, dd hangs *sometimes*, harder to pin down ; ftr I DID go and read the dd code too but I can't say I'm any wiser as to why/how it is more resilient
asciilifeform: it's not a constant rate, 7 is the empirical avg., and depends on environmental temp
asciilifeform: ( evidently the dc has pretty good cooling )
diana_coman: anyways, if you find something the matter specifically with eucrypt code, I'd be quite happy really since it's easiest to fix tbh
asciilifeform: not really, the nominal production is 7
asciilifeform: eucrypt's test reliably hangs, however, ~every other run
diana_coman: i.e. if you run the eucrypt tests 0 or 1 that read more they tend to take longer to get to the hang (although they still do eventually)
diana_coman: the first time it usually hangs
asciilifeform: this box is running traditional gentoo, however, it more closely resembles primary s.mg machine than the test box
asciilifeform: diana_coman: what was the exact process for dd hang ?
diana_coman: aha; good to know at least it's not *just* that machine; might be worth to try replicating the dd hang as well , although by now I expect it will happen
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, thanks! confirmed back on + 1 fg available; unfortunately the simple test from smg_rsa (./tests 11 11 ) still hangs
mod6: there ya go
douchebag: My main problem with the Pizarro business model is that I could essentially get the same service by purchasing a fiber internet connection and hooking it up to a rockchip and then SSHing into it
douchebag: The SSL cert is also invalid
mircea_popescu: they'll "leave their mark", or w/e they call it now. a giant pink L in the foam of the sea.
douchebag: I just have not been enlightened on why my goals are "the wrong goals", the goals I'm working towards are going to help me feed my family someday and at the end of the day that is what matters to me.
mircea_popescu: just like the weev morons, writing "advertising" irc bots to advertise inept usg alt-agenda to me. because yea, totally, THAT'll work, and is the way to spend a youth.
mircea_popescu: fellow has ~infinite energy to expend, but strictly towards the wrong goals. provide him with some self-defeating goals, he'll stay up nights.
douchebag: Also the security firm I'm working on is expected to pull at least a half million dollars by december
douchebag: Well, it wasn't neccesarily a critical vulnerability - it was just rather unique. The hall of Fame's just help for my resume
douchebag: ben_vulpes: I understand we disagree on that, however I'm trying to make money - I don't see how hosting rockchips that are overpriced is going to generate revenue in the long term.
ben_vulpes: douchebag: link to any of these famous halls?
ben_vulpes: the whole responsible disclosure threads went clear over your head
ben_vulpes: douchebag: and you think that pantsuit press coverage instead of hosing their boxen is the key to fame fortune and a seat in tmsr?
BingoBoingo: This is IRC, I am pretty sure everyone here has at least a little bit of troll in their ancestry. Except for the transylvanians
BingoBoingo: From the links that got dropped: "Why GNU Linux is the operating system for Pedo-Positive Users"
douchebag: Alright fellows, I know I hadn't really been contributing to the republic.
mod6: douchebag wants the mic
mod6: And I think that's the right idea.
asciilifeform: the ameri-protestants 'improved' even on this, their heaven iirc is full of aborted foeti
mircea_popescu: it was supposed to be "christian". as in, "they're who you're gonna run into in heaven, god's own most beloved children, the idiots."
mircea_popescu: i recall a time the word "cretin" was coined, by humans walking the swiss alps and discovering villages of these inbred morons, rendered stupid by the lack of iodine.
mircea_popescu: we are the only humans left, actually.
asciilifeform: are we the only moderated chan left or wat
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and i'll bet you whatever you want that much like the #lisp morons failiong to realise what candi_lustt is ; so #linux-whjatever will fail to realise why #trilema doesn't have a problem, and what a voice model is, and what EXACTLY it means to be the intellectual inferior.
mircea_popescu: ~would have been~. were there a father, and were he around at the time called "formative", and could he be arsed to be alive and so forth.
mircea_popescu: no, because the cure would have been for their father to tie them to the same bed post as the stupid mother and beat both senseless the moment the "oh you're special and can do anything" nonsense came out of her mouth.
asciilifeform: hunchback straightens -- in the grave.
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, the mornic, fucktarded kids, coming up on their own power and out of their own skulls with this fantasy alt-world wherein they dun have to read the log and work with the republic and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: it's just... somewhere between outrageous and ludicrous, i guess. on one hand, the fucktarded, moronic kids, coming up on their own power and out of their own skulls with this fantasy alt-world wherein anyone has any respect for the usg.freenode fuckwits, and in which alt-world they're gonna make known the big bad secrets, little snowdens that they be.
mircea_popescu: jesus fuck the kids today.
lobbesbot: esthlos: Sent 12 hours and 56 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> in e.g. http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2016-03-28 you link to kako's log ; i recommend against this , it is not a faithful record of the actual text ( last yr he took to monkeying with it via perlism and possibly also manually )
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 12:47 asciilifeform: !Q later tell esthlos in e.g. http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2016-03-28 you link to kako's log ; i recommend against this , it is not a faithful record of the actual text ( last yr he took to monkeying with it via perlism and possibly also manually )
mircea_popescu: Napsterbater5 you weak drama lot are the reason these fucktards turned off unregistered accts resulting in my inept bimbo nearly going nuts over the weekend ?
Napsterbater5: A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
Napsterbater5: Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
mod6: The one that mircea_popescu rented for douchebag doesn't expire until the 19th iirc. I'll update you on that one. Unless mircea_popescu says to nuke it ahead of time.
BingoBoingo: mod6: There's the douchebag one as well. I am waiting on alf to give the order before I touch either of them.
mod6: But anyway, let me know if you need to know which one is his -- there are notes in the message I sent around couple days ago.
mod6: BingoBoingo: You may, at your earliest convenience wipe the Rockchip that mats was renting.
mod6: Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic: The Bitcoin Foundation's State of Bitcoin Address for July: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-August/000306.html
asciilifeform: ( how exactly this ties the hands of, e.g. , taiwanese fabs, i do not presume to know , but result is evident )
asciilifeform: they're actually named by name on usg 'export ban' list.
asciilifeform: i've turned up some hints that usg actually interferes with the ADC makers -- 'ohnoez, moscow could use fast ADC in radar set'
asciilifeform: i.e. are pressed shitboard , rather than hardwood.
asciilifeform: and they ~all do shenanigans with multiple slow ADCs masquerading as 1 fast one
asciilifeform: doubtful, all of the examples i've been able to peek into, are full of xilinx.
mircea_popescu: possibly firmware of one could be rewritten, liberating the item and saving you a coin
asciilifeform: so if you want a 1G/s scope with os where you actually have some control of the timing ( for e.g. real time phase sampling ) you're 100% phuqed.
asciilifeform: ( these, for extra laughter, come with ~built in windows~ in the instrument itself ! )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/#selection-549.0-553.4 ie, "consumer market"
asciilifeform: sorta hilarious , this, 'here's pc with very spiffy 6G/s pcie bus, for 100$, but if you want to connect something useful to that, haha, what do you think this is, the fyootoor'
asciilifeform: in other noose, since 1st time i asked the q in 2013, appears that there is ~to this day~ not such a thing as a 1Ghz oscilloscope with any linux support whatsoever.
BingoBoingo: Will have it ready <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, do you know whether smg main server has the black snake cables or what? << It does.
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, do you need me to shut down the box? << I will if you want me to pull it to swap cables.
diana_coman: it ~always hung before finishing the 11 runs even
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that's literally what ended up as main test because convenient: it attempts to generate 11 "dirty float" random numbers using 4 random octets from fg; first number there is number of repetitions; second number chooses what test to run (if you run only ./tests 11 without 2nd number it will print the list of what it knows to do)
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 15:49 diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, get eucrypt and run the tests for smg_rsa, something like ./tests 11 11 (i.e. 11 times test no 11)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838330 an exact description of the test ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, on smg main server I ran only dd although I never had any problems nor wobbles nor anything with the fgs there
asciilifeform: rather, ruled out as primary cause, could easily be the ultimate barf source in conjunction with 1 / 2
asciilifeform: the possible suspects , so far -- 1) ttl dongles 2) hub 3) musl userland , somehow
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, do you need me to shut down the box?
asciilifeform: ( the 2 constraints -- 1) ~not ever ftdi~ 2) no flashable chips plox )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ftr i am still on the lookout for anything like a practicable replacement for pl2303
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I doubt it's the cables really but can't hurt to rule that out
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm gonna try and replicate here in the torture room, with your proggy -- i have both cable types here
diana_coman: right, I'm anyway currently in need of a break and at a loss otherwise on this; so BingoBoingo at your leisure, please change the cables and leave only one FG plugged in for now; I'll get some sleep in first, so there's no hurry - anytime within next 10 hours works fine
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'blue' is theoretically same chip, but from a diff chinese seller ( fwiw asciilifeform's desk FG operates from a 'blue' )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838486 << i've only ever observed pl2303-specific headache when 3+ operating ( and even then , consisted of slow, rather than halted, signal )
asciilifeform: i was about to suggest, to swap both cables , see if these can be ruled out
diana_coman: hm, before switching cables I can switch order of init and see if there's any difference anyway
a111: Logged on 2018-07-12 14:06 BingoBoingo: On this box one of the FG cables is the blue guy that came with my personal FG, the other is the new style black snake
BingoBoingo: Well, one other thing we can do is switch one or both usb ttl cables. As mentioned earlier one of the cables is the "blue" style that shipped with earlier FUCKGOATs http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833809
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, wait a bit, at least to know if there is something else to try if you go there
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, how long would it take to get there and unplug one of the FG to have a test with only one? << I could go there and be back witing an hour
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, how long would it take to get there and unplug one of the FG to have a test with only one?
diana_coman: basically as the "wobble" initially reported: if only one fg is set, then first read via dd hangs just the same
BingoBoingo: The bigger wtf is what did they need a police force for? Place is clearly sized for a part time constable or two.
asciilifeform: btw also worth trying the item listed in 'Tip for Linux Users' at http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html .
diana_coman: at that time I did not yet have the boot-time sh init though; I suppose I can add this to test sheet
diana_coman: if anything, it would suggest that even dd can choke there
a111: Logged on 2018-07-12 13:49 diana_coman: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo access to box & config confirmed; FG on ttysUSB0 had a wobble at first and I don't understand why: I ran the stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 115200 raw -echo -echoe -echok and then tried dd iflag=fullblock if=/dev/ttyUSB0 | hexdump -C but nothing came up; then I ran the stty on usb1 as well and tried again and it...worked; any idea wtf was that at first?
asciilifeform: ( naturally the imbecile kernel doesn't actually test whether something is riding on the tty prior to opening, 'why would we' )
asciilifeform: btw if anyone wants to experimentally observe the zombie effect, can do it with ordinary gnu 'screen' -- when opened on a tty with blocking i/o, will routinely leave zombie turd instead of properly terminating, then hours later you find that tty is wedged, and discover 9 copies of 'screen' in process table.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, ahaha dadatroll; but now I see why it didn't even ring a bell at all as I probably missed the comments section there/didn't follow it
asciilifeform: if diseased mind fails to produce impulse to visit toilet instead of filling own pants, then yes, work with.
mircea_popescu: that's more of an absence, see. generally psychiatrists don't attempt to work with what the diseased mind fails to produce, but instead focus on the positive malfunctions, the productive sort. "tell me more about the little gremlins"
asciilifeform: somewhere near the top of the list, right below 'gotta check EVERY system call for failure erry time in user coad'
mircea_popescu: in fact, the concept of "zombie" is perhaps the most indicated ear of stupid to shake the whole echafaudage by.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the astonishing bit isn't even that system5 unix had this nonsense, but that the linux derps faithfully re-created it.
mircea_popescu: zombie is not just (as an inexistent, imaginary "manual" mentally reconstructed from the pile of gunk they published purports to hint) an entry in the table to permit the caller to clean up correctly. it is ALL SORTS of things, and generally of the getting in the way kind.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-31 16:15 asciilifeform: unix i/o is retarded, if blocking read blocks, it gives you a zombie process , and the next process you start that tried to read same tty, will also become zombie
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> basically if I don't manage to reproduce it on any other machine, it would seem it's potentially to do with that specific system << Let me know if you want a pair of hands.
mircea_popescu: (the above, for the rotaku club, is a pinnacle of intertextual metatextuality the likes french culture barely ever managed, and anglonline never did.)
diana_coman takes a break from the usb reading wtf
phf: diana_coman: we will take credit for it (also we'll take retroactive credit for the frequent mysterious reboots of asciilifeform's machines)
diana_coman: I honestly thought that was the main part of phf's joke there : the "control without dominate" in the spirit of modern times
phf: henceforth any attempts to expose the activities of the secret society of illuminated fraudsters shall be denounced as a ravings of delusional paranoids
phf: mircea_popescu: to be honest i didn't read into it past the roleplaying humor, but upon immediate reflection, your objection makes equally obvious sense
diana_coman: ofc if dd never chokes, dunno, will look at how they do it
phf: mircea_popescu: well, we had conversations about esoteric societies in the past, and there's a reason for why the logs are public and everything that follows
a111: Logged on 2014-11-30 06:31 mircea_popescu: like the stuff discussed above re usg agency redhat, fuycking up linux. EXACTLY the stiuation of the giant ruining a chair.
mircea_popescu: phf my problem is this : on one hand i'm trying, in jules' words REALLY REALLY HARD, to not be the fatass in http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-30#938314 snuffing the life out of everything ; on the other i just can't manage to distinguish the proposed "x without y" from the broad scheme that ruined western civilisation, "have wife without beating her".
phf: unfortunately the secret societ of illuminated fraudsters managed to stay secret all 5 minutes, before being publically exposed in the logs
phf: mircea_popescu: it's an adam wieshaupt quote, and i take its meaning to be in line with the stereotypes about his organization, control through influence rather than direct domination
diana_coman: basically if I don't manage to reproduce it on any other machine, it would seem it's potentially to do with that specific system