ascii_field: also there is no means of getting more than 24 hours of it per day.
ascii_field: the most elementary component
trinque: there are plenty more knowledgable on this than myself, but this is why I ask periodically about smaller components of the thing, if such a thing exists at all
trinque: ascii_field: gotta invent the path which leads to the thing desired, not just the thing itself
phf: gpgme bindings are broken, since they've not been updated since 2008 or so, i'm surprised they are in the source tree at all
trinque: ascii_field: this is why I spoke of military hardware; it's only valuable if it's a) used and b) the user wins something of value
ascii_field: jurov: its in the logz
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: specifically discussing other works.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field is the proud owner of some equitytoiletpaper?
ben_vulpes: what the ever loving fuck is this mkerrorcodes.awk
ascii_field: in the sense that dumb bird lays eggs for free.
ben_vulpes: in the sense of grown to be eaten?
ben_vulpes: not in the slightest.
ascii_field: in the genuine sense of 'paid for.'
funkenstein_: what's the value of a bach partita?
ben_vulpes: well, what is the value of bitcoin?
ascii_field: these aren't things.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: in the abstract.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 13:54:55; mircea_popescu: the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking.
ascii_field: part II of puzzle for ben_vulpes and mircea_popescu - what was the continuity bridge worth ? - http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225544
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: any "v", your "v" or "v" in the abstract?
ascii_field: the author of an ffi pkg has no control over what c turd is on your box
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: don't mind me, i'm just trying to learn the violin.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: when they ~are~ common lisp packages
ben_vulpes fails to find the logline wherein asciilifeform claims that common lisp packages "tend to work unlike in other languages"
ascii_field: i have a puzzle for ben_vulpes, who is awake, and mircea_popescu, who might soon awaken, and the rest:
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: the thing is shaky beyond belief
ben_vulpes: phf: where's a sane place from which to procure gpg-error? i've found some text files scattered about the web but nothing in the gpgme lang/cl dir
assbot: Logged on 27-10-2015 15:31:19; asciilifeform: this keeps in perfect fitting with the 'computing industry'-as-a-protection racket business model of the last 20+ yrs, where it 'solves' exclusively those problems which it, itself, creates.
ascii_field: PeterL: one of the things to understand is that your computer is the way it is because the 'computing industry' consists of 1,001 people mutually sucking one another's cocks and profiting off the braindamage to every fella actually trying to get useful work done.
ascii_field: 'when mass markets develop, pluralism suffers the most -- there is no longer a concept of healthy participants: people become concerned with the individual "winner", and instead of people being good at whatever they are doing and proud of that, they will want to flock around the winner to share some of the glory.'
ascii_field: PeterL: the notion of 'takes over' is broken
trinque: if I have 10 nukes and you have 100 artillery in a fortress, and I nuke the fortress, does a nuke silo spring up in its midst?
trinque: that was not the point.
trinque: sounds more like "will this superior military weapon ever supercede this other weaker weapon in terms of market penetration?"
trinque: PeterL: this assumes that the same group of derps will continue to exist forever
ascii_field: there is usg diktat and that's it.
ascii_field: there is no playing field
ascii_field: so now you have to constantly chase the largely nonexistent docs for new southbridge, etc
PeterL: If you hypothetically could make your own silicon, and "real computer", do you think it could ever displace the entrenched systems everybody is currently using?
ascii_field: even if we ignore the profound braindamage of the x86 arch - instruction set, memory structure, clumsily retrofitted multiprocessor, etc. -
ascii_field: (the odds are very good that your southbridge is running just one such as we speak.)
ascii_field: i learned this the hard way.
PeterL: so the only way to get a better operating system is to start with purpose built hardware?
ascii_field: e.g., there is no powerfail interrupt
ascii_field: but you do need the nic.
ascii_field: AND this is a device for which we HAVE the specs !
ascii_field: i picked this example out of a tall hat with many others, to demonstrate the impedance mismatch between the lisp way of doing things and pc iron
ascii_field: PeterL: see 'cdr coding' for why this does not have to be the case
ascii_field: suddenly you need a massive 'bureaucracy' to convert between the contiguous blobs your devices eat and shit, and your notion.
ascii_field: where each character is stored in half of a word, with the other half being a pointer to the next char ?
ascii_field: but rather, as cons cells?
ascii_field: when a packet comes in over the wire, it gets thrown into a buffer pointed to by a particular register in the card's cpu, and the latter reads the addr of the next buffer from a pre-baked list
assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 01:07:56; asciilifeform: at any rate, i (and $maxint others) will port $whateverthefuckyouwant to, e.g., cray II. for a fee.
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-11-2015#1316588 << when I was in middle school we went on a field trip to the Warren (MI) Army Tank Plant, tour included the Cray II, cool looking room sized machine with liquid cooling fluid bubbling over its brain
ascii_field: no, the element is mainly si
PeterL: the element?
phf: i've been trying very hard for the past 15 minutes to remember its name or anything about it, and even though i spent 8 months with it, i'm completely failing to
phf: of magnitude improvements and that the whole thing is not even funny. he suggested that i do an implementation as an indepedent study for another semester and that's what i did
phf: thestringpuller: it wasn't actually forced. started as a final project in william arbaugh's (the guy who did the smooth handover wireless implementation at umd) class, where we were writing a malloc for the teaching os as a final project, only three mallocs came anywhere near the spec, since mine was one of them i had the opportunity to say that the whole thing was a sham "shit code written by retards", etc. and that you can have orders
assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 15:08:18; asciilifeform: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317133 << out of curiosity, what are you using the usg client for ?
phf: ascii_field: that's the problem with a lot of lisp conversations here, your interlocutors have some vague idea about how things are done right now and in unix world. even unixisms are used not in their "pure form", but in their final gnu/linux state. there's complete lack of semantic match between that and historical lisp. ultimately debates are reduced to "macros are bad because cpp is bad"
thestringpuller: phf: ugh they made you do that shit too? we had to write malloc for the game boy advance, or a game boy advance game for a final project for course in C
ascii_field: but realized that my interlocutors did not know the fundamentals involved (because scarcely anybody does, and not everyone is an archaeologist)
phf: ascii_field: my undergrad "thesis" was putting a malloc on a one of those teaching os's, it was interesting in that "wrestling with bare metal" sort of way, but then i learned how lispm does it, and realized that i was lied to
PeterL: mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions. << you are going to link min bet amounts to the USD/BTC price now? are you going to have the website show the "estimated $ amount" like the VC circus sites do?
mircea_popescu: this goalpost moving is giving me spots on the spleen.
ascii_field: phf: THE SIMPLEST malloc() is 10x more complicated than, e.g, the gc engine in 'tinyscheme'
mircea_popescu: punkman kinda what i was proposing, a progressive scale. imo the way i stated it is better pr, but whatevs.
mircea_popescu: it's just not worth anyone's time for them to exist.
phf: v6 is a beauty, but for the amount of stuff that's required to be written why not lisp os?
mircea_popescu: there is no reason under the sun to process, manage, consider or in any way interact with subdollar transactions.
mircea_popescu: they can save up.
kakobreklaa: so you wanna make poorfags even poorer to a point where they no longer send a satoshi, is this the idea?
kakobreklaa: the long enough cost on dust is dust.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i don't hate'em, but i did search in vain for signs that somebody was ~thinking~ rather than merely piling intel xeons ten metres high
kakobreklaa: if you leave dust sitting long enough and at some point flush all the dust in a single tx to a nondusty result ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field so you hate them, that's fine, but you can't impugn the whole subdiscipline just because idiots somewhere
mircea_popescu: currently this CAN work as an extraction engine - it costs me more to make the payouts than i take in.
mircea_popescu: kakobreklaa it will discourage people from sending them.
mircea_popescu: neither of which can be read reductionistically to "petrochem".
mircea_popescu: and my examples were around genome research and biosynthesizer identification
ascii_field: which are '% massage' rather than 'new field'
assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 06:14:54; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla listen, im running into a whole fucking list of problems with all the shitty dust people send to bitbet. do you suppose we put in a progressive fee structure ? like "fee is a minimum of 0.0001, + 10% of everything under 0.01 + 1% of rest ?
mircea_popescu: aka "let's ignore what's being said and run off with one marginal example of the broad category discussed".
mircea_popescu: "In its classical form the BZ reaction consist of a one-electron redox catalyst"
mircea_popescu: this inspires me! tonight ima have one girl write nickserv on her pubis, and the other chanserv
mircea_popescu: ever since qm reduced macro tm to the status of macro tm
ascii_field: proved that thermodynamics is only stochastically applicable.
ascii_field: startling to the point that nato lands shelved it as sov disinfo for decades
ascii_field: yesterday no one knew em wave was a thing. and then - it is.
ascii_field: though he derived all of the maths that have or will ever apply.
ascii_field: poor old j.c.maxwell gets no rest when this comes up, but i'ma have to use him as example again. he didn't even bother ~trying~ to build a radio...
ascii_field: this is not a moral judgement, just an observation - you need different people for the foundation of a concept, than for 17th floor
ascii_field: bldg has a foundation. it is different from the other parts of the structure in that it lets you start having floors where prior you could only sit down in the dirt.
ascii_field: the 17th floor of empire state bldg is not a fundament.
mircea_popescu: you can fucking go around looking for biosynthesizers now, for this reason
mircea_popescu: this is nonsense, srlsy. the 70s-90s in catalysts are more important than anything that ever happened in chemistry.
ascii_field: and it - for the most part - isn't happening.
ascii_field: PeterL: there is such a thing as invention.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yer looking in the wrong end of the funnel. yes, women still wear stockings, but american south no longer can have plantations, because the fiber doesn't grow out of the ground.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck do you think you have genome sequencing, otherwise, and why the fuck do you think woman's stockings is a bigger deal.
mircea_popescu: so then catalytic chemistry counts.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck's gonna happen, invent a new electron load ?
PeterL: There is also chemistry research at, for example, Dow Chemical, which they don't publish but instead use to make themselves money, does this not count?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: my broadcast later tonight when i get out of the pit
assbot: Logged on 04-11-2015 18:01:40; asciilifeform: which more or less died out as a scientific field in the 'civilized' world.
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-11-2015#1315952 << You are saying chemistry is not still alive? Seems to me that there is alot going on in chem right now?
PeterL: mircea_popescu: so what was the problem with MPEx?
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.33730996 BTC on 'Yes' - Luke Skywalker Turns To The Dark Side In Episode VII - http://bitbet.us/bet/1218/luke-skywalker-turns-to-the-dark-side-in/#b7
adlai: patternspeak for up-and-down. i'm probably misusing it, iirc it's only an eiffel if the down returns to levels before the up
punkman: the what?
adlai is surprised nobody has yet accused the marshals of building the recent eiffel tower, as auction optimization
mircea_popescu: and mpex is back. sorry for the downtime everyone.
mircea_popescu: my god, ceo is going to go the way of nigger and handicapped within my lifetime isn't it.
mircea_popescu: ie, that same 1-2% of the coins that are in hands of self important usg ceo/vc types.
mircea_popescu: which indicates that it's mostly people moving the same btc back and forth.
punkman: days destroyed is much smoother
trinque: the notion that merely looking like the thing you wish to be is sufficient has seeped into everything
mircea_popescu: why ? the country admits it's posturing.
trinque: The Department of Defense's posture on cybersecurity ultimately affects national security. << There's a deep cultural flaw in this sentence emanating from the word posture.
thestringpuller: what's with reddit complaining about the blocksize bullshit again?
mircea_popescu: <jurov> punkman, on superficial look it does not return getblock() data anymore << nuts. so 0.11 is forked off the network then ?
mircea_popescu: <assbot> Pentagon Farmed Out Its Coding to Russia - The Daily Beast << ahahahaha no, really ?
mircea_popescu: liquidassets which is the point.
assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 13:23:33; jurov: then i tried to set MIN_PEER_PROTO_VERSION = 0 in 0.11
assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 13:24:30; jurov: then i returned to 0.10 and left further research for later
asciilifeform: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1317133 << out of curiosity, what are you using the usg client for ?
assbot: Baidu found China’s “ghost cities,” but it is keeping their locations mostly a secret - Quartz ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRCXz2 )
punkman: http://qz.com/540571/baidu-found-chinas-ghost-cities-but-it-is-keeping-their-locations-mostly-a-secret/
jurov: then 0.5.4 connected but could not get data
jurov: then i tried to set MIN_PEER_PROTO_VERSION = 0 in 0.11
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: heh http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/04/pentagon-farmed-out-its-coding-to-russia.html
BingoBoingo: Boyfriend suggest alterboy being buggered over the altar
liquidassets: Boyfriend suggests, ‘he’s not fucking other women just me’ Manfriend, not so.
mircea_popescu: random thought of the day : wtf is this "boyfriend" bs. girlfriend i can see, but it's manfriend innit.
asciilifeform: guess what, i don't give milk either.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this "can't have X, can't have non-X" sorta thing will necessarily resolve itself in time. there's no other way.
ben_vulpes: do consider the improvement in the serf's quality of life when biking (or walking!) thirty minutes to and fro the galley each day, compared to the hour in the wheelbox each direction that can be had in other places, composed with the shorter work week that is possible.
asciilifeform: prolly the former
ben_vulpes: also worth mentioning that gracefully handling rapidly shifting requirements is core to how the business operates.
ben_vulpes: operating as a corporation rather than an individual has benefits like that.
ben_vulpes: d'you know? i only landed my first of those within the past month.
ben_vulpes: 220V, 3 phase, a poured pad, and nobody would bat an eye if you weather-proofed the ADU.
ben_vulpes: oh and shut the fuck up
ben_vulpes: not eager to do it, i misspoke. eager to spend time in our mines rather than wherever they slave normally.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform knows: life in the galleys is marginally less miserable with phri3ndz
asciilifeform cannot compete with coolies either in cost or in enthusiasm
ben_vulpes: as it stands, he hates the kind of work my shop does, and i have a list of people who also hate the kind of work that we do but also find the company company so beguiling that they're willing and sometimes even eager to do it anyways.
ben_vulpes: re technologies, we do mobile in obj-c, swift (i guess theoretically), java, server stuff in python/django/whatever, ruby/rails/whatever, java/clojure/{it's all algol you know}, and actual web stuff in whatever hodgepodge of html/css and js is already in place or pretty well-curated tools that...abstract over the hodgepodge to one degree or another.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes and do you have workload they can actually work 35 hour weeks every week ? and doing what, tech wise ? js ? ruby ? py ? perl ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: l0l srsly, 10%?!! what are they, legless cambodians, hanging in nets ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla listen, im running into a whole fucking list of problems with all the shitty dust people send to bitbet. do you suppose we put in a progressive fee structure ? like "fee is a minimum of 0.0001, + 10% of everything under 0.01 + 1% of rest ?
ben_vulpes: i pay technical staff hourly rates such that should staff choose to work a 35+ hour week, they'd make depending on their value to my org ±10% of a bigcorp salary.
ben_vulpes: "employ" in the states is a peculiar contractual arrangement where the employer agrees to remit taxes on behalf of the employed.
mircea_popescu: there should, i imagine, be a way to extract significant cheating out of the fact that we don't intend to support random gunk.
asciilifeform: and the only promising heuristic thus far is a somewhat mircea_popescuine one - namely, to de-generalize the problem
asciilifeform: this is one of the problems i've been fighting with for perhaps a year now.
asciilifeform: if you want to laugh, cry, read the one in gpg 1.4.10.
mircea_popescu: "this very this" lol. i'm not going to even research it. i know it's what the nexus of all diddlery would have to be if i was running the diddle department.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in so far as the code is c code and the allocator needs to return contiguous regions of ram, you end up with malloc.
asciilifeform: when you desperately need speed / compactness, you use 'cdr coding' which is a cheat whereby you set a bit in the former word which signifies 'next is not an address but actually the next word.'
asciilifeform: at any rate, the correct way to build memory is - cons cells. as in, every addressable unit actually contains a word followed by another which acts solely as an address of 'next word.'
asciilifeform: *the lispm
asciilifeform: but at the obvious cost of... well, having such things kicking around.
asciilifeform: it abolished the need for actual continuity in allocated segments.
asciilifeform: (these were magical bits that one could set in any memory word, that would cause it to transparently redirect to another word)
mircea_popescu: but they can't.
asciilifeform: no such thing on the pc.
mircea_popescu: so you cache the disk.
asciilifeform: no way to weasel out of it, if you want to keep up with the blockchain.
asciilifeform: you still gotta cache the disk.
asciilifeform: even if you make the networking go over slip (yes, it has uart driver! behold)
asciilifeform: thing is, it only looks sexy because there is nothing sitting on it
asciilifeform: anyway i'll be the last to cry for tcp.
mircea_popescu: and on the boost "abstraction"
asciilifeform: let's rephrase, it relies on the pipe abstraction
asciilifeform: the smallest known tcp stack is that swedish one
assbot: Logged on 05-11-2015 05:37:58; mircea_popescu: you know this actually sounds rather interesting. why is it that it's not good for us ?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316953 << add a network stack, nic driver, disk caching (without which no real time bitcoin), then the unspeakable horror of even the smallest known incarnation of libc...
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> adding tcp would prolly double or triple the mass, though << the challenge would be to not write the worst piece of the completed assemblage.
mircea_popescu: you know this actually sounds rather interesting. why is it that it's not good for us ?
asciilifeform: ditto drivers for any kind of actual iron beyond the interrupt controller and bare bones ata
asciilifeform: adding tcp would prolly double or triple the mass, though.
asciilifeform: because then it's a complete and almost usable os.
asciilifeform: all-process table. Similarly, theres no malloc() in the kernel, but rather just a page allocator. The pipe implementation copies one byte at a time. Amazingly, even the bootloader is a pleasure to read. Another nice thing about Xv6 is that it comes with a short textbook that explains OS concepts in terms of their implementations in Xv6.'
asciilifeform: 'Xv6 is a rewrite of v6 UNIX in modern C that runs on multicore x86 chips. It compiles in a couple of seconds and is trivial to boot up in QEMU. It took me a while to see the genius of Xv6, which is that it is simpler than I would have thought a working multicore OS with shell and filesystem could be. For example, it lacks wait queues and ready queues in Xv6, both wakeup and scheduling are accomplished by looping over the
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu finally dug up the sysv6-on-x86 thing. http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1114
asciilifeform: in other 'news', malloc is very very complicated.
BingoBoingo: These years creep up on people
trinque: perhaps asciilifeform is waiting for "The USG scam wont see 2019"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i'm still waiting for the magical 1986 or so of our day, when thinking people stop even recreationally giving a shit about the stuffed shirts << Too late BitBet exists
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm still waiting for the magical 1986 or so of our day, when thinking people stop even recreationally giving a shit about the stuffed shirts
BingoBoingo: Democrats on the other hand quit well in advance because getting appointed to various offices is the way of their people
BingoBoingo: But seriously none of the republicans are going to stop before the first primaries because they gotta build their profile in public to become TV hosts
gribble: George Clinton Parliament Funkadelic official website: <http://georgeclinton.com/>; George Clinton (musician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Clinton_(musician)>; George Clinton and Parliament Funkadelic - Facebook: <https://www.facebook.com/georgeclintonpfunk/>
BingoBoingo: George Clinton was well known at the time though
mircea_popescu: "that guy with the hot wife"
trinque: Trump and Carson practically fist-bumped on stage in that CNBC "debate"; I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up running together
mircea_popescu: i would imagine the republicans understand enough of their small penis issues to not imagine they can pull democrat tricks.
BingoBoingo: NEarly all the repubes are still ruining
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> who the fuck are they gonna pick ? jeb ? the doc nobody heard of ? << Doctor Stoner is actually leading now. Rubio appears to be the establishment alternative now that Jeb is dead in the water
trinque: bragged about HP's role helping the NSA under her watch, too
asciilifeform: the one that killed hp
mircea_popescu: the republicans also have chicks now ?
asciilifeform: wat about the chick
liquidassets: Exactly BingoBoingo except I still have to go back and read more to get the full context
BingoBoingo: For honeydicking, I am less certain the proper course of action
BingoBoingo: <liquidassets> ... << full disclosure via logs is most correct thing for honeytrapping no? << Yes, like that time I blogged the FBI visit to my front door
liquidassets: anytime you're opened up to liability, the one who documents best seems to win
liquidassets: “only the Übermensch will have the strength to fully accept all of his past life, including his failures and misdeeds, and to truly will their eternal return” grepped straight from the logz