jurov: asciilifeform: can't you just get rid of gmail? or it's the same situation as you and usg?
mod6: asciilifeform: <+mod6> so... i've integrated asciilifeform's fix into a new patch that will replace the old one: http://dpaste.com/2KCXN8A.txt << <+mod6> ahh, and then there is this now -- when compiling with alf's fix incorporated: <+mod6> http://dpaste.com/1AVK5ZP.txt << any thoughts on how to fix0r this?
punkman: ah, ok then
jurov: ah i see. but you send the clearsigned part as Content-Type: text/plain
punkman: pub@extemporized.com , I manually set octet-stream for all my attachments, but it's possible the crappy email-sender I use overrode it for the email body
mod6: some of you out there who are following along will be like, "yeah, what about line 426, or 484 then!! eh!?"
mod6: yup yup, i put a 0x0a in there just to preseve 80 cols. but perl deoesn't care nor does it add a '\n' to the command string
mod6: notice how there is a space after '=long '
ben_vulpes: well there is a line break between those two strings
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> so the '.' is both a line-break escape and string concatenation? << its not a line break. its just a string concatenation.
ben_vulpes: so the '.' is both a line-break escape and string concatenation?
mod6: ok so whats going on there is that to preserve 80 cols, i create a command spanning two lines
mod6: these right ^
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 17:53:34; phf: mircea_popescu: hey trinque jurov phf : would it be possible to take that very nice graph phf showed, turn it into a proper svg and have the nodes clickable ? << like http://104.131.72.249/patches/? (is in no way bulletproof, so i expect it to be down by the time i come back from breakfast)
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 17:53:21; mod6: <+ben_vulpes> yo mod6 what does it mean in perl to do my $var = "string" . \n "otherstring" is the period a linebreak escape in perl, and the variable implicitly a concatenation of the two strings << where do you see this? this is not a thing. that would fail to compile/pass-interpreter-smell-test.
phf: perhaps then trb instructions should be "download mod6.asc into ~/.wot" which is a trust starting point
phf: huh so with original v design, mod6 could sign all the patches that are deemed releasable, and then all you need is mod6.asc in your wot and trb will press
mod6: so that's not the only thing that needed to change.
mod6: i can't even take the time to jump down that rabbit hole right now.
mod6: it's not hurting anyone, and its not going in the release.
mod6: so ben_vulpes, understand that there is like a jumble of different things he submitted, and if the wrong ones are incorporated, it might puke.
mod6: i kinda have to turn a deaf ear to a lot of this stuff until the new month starts, and even then, i gotta keep my eye on the prize - dispite any other problems on the periphery.
ben_vulpes: so if i press those individually, in order, they work. but if i press the last patch, i believe that it fails to find its antecedents.
mod6: just had to stick his stuff into patches and .seals. but in all honesty, im not even sure if the patches & seals I'm using are what is indended at this point.
ben_vulpes: the rebaked ones?
mod6: yeah, no clue what you did there.
ben_vulpes: the 'rebaked' ones.
ben_vulpes: did you get a chance to repro the issue i ran into with asciilifeform's shiva patches?
mod6: im gonna test this revised patch, if works, send it, then get that SoBA in ship-shape.
ben_vulpes: entirely unrelatedly, can anyone corroborate the story of the russians who burned a shitton of usd on camera and got the then-fed to credit some domestic account or other?
ben_vulpes: how many rickety fucking buckets of others' design must a man endure before he gets the fuck out and walks on his own feet is the question i'm endeavoring to resolve for myself
adlai: how many roads must a man walk down before he stops taking the less-trod fork
adlai: in the same sense as "eleven rabbis, twelve opinions"
adlai wonders at the boundedness of CL vtrons... probably nonexistent
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391635 << this thread is also further evidence that 'satoshi' was/included a plumber rather than academic or architect
mod6: I'm going to build with this and live test it before I submit to the mailing list.
mod6: so... i've integrated asciilifeform's fix into a new patch that will replace the old one: http://dpaste.com/2KCXN8A.txt
adlai: well patches, not seals. the latter aren't particularly stimulating reading material per se
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the fact that bitcoin-os is the unavoidable end of this entire process requires things be thought out with a view to that fact.
adlai keeps reading, both logs and seals, and maybe someday will have another partial idea
mircea_popescu: but in any case, compiling bitcoin in bitcoin is not either a goal or liable to be implemented before actually having a bitcoin-fs say.
mircea_popescu: i think maybe you've formed a partial idea of what's being discussed through the age old process of having read a partial set of what's been said.
adlai: i don't think it's a good idea and i'm trying to dispel the notion for others who may. i'm a little surprised at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391599 and probably misunderstood alf.
mircea_popescu: the reason alf wants a cd is because what he really wants is A BOOT CD.
mircea_popescu: looky : currently we have a script that pulls dependencies, checks them, and builds.
adlai: mircea_popescu: in these early days, when Bitcoin does not yet fully Exist, it seems as though everything is an option. the full shiva vision, as i understand it from recent logs, opens the door to doing exactly that, if some energetic idiot decides it's a good idea
mircea_popescu: adlai there's no option to embedding a compiler in an os.
adlai: again, not trying to perscribe what's right; obviously asciilifeform understands what he's trying to do infinitely better than i can; but... i think the line is somewhere between embedding an interpreter for a subset of r5rs, and embedding a ~compiler~
asciilifeform: also i laugh when folks take the spew of academitard 'compiler research' claptrap and try to actually use
adlai: ergo why the clasp horse is also unnecessary to continue flogging.
adlai: lemme put it another way... somewhere in the ANSI spec are probably one, two, or even three ~hundred~ symbols which the weaponized bitcoind-os does not need in its guts. define-setf-expander? define-method-combination? where do you draw the line?
asciilifeform: phf: know the stories where, in the Dark Future of Hello Kitty, man's neurons are replaced one by one with robotic ones, and he doesn't notice ?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391045 << that said, he has the best twitter ever: https://twitter.com/peterthiel
asciilifeform: rather than automatic claptrap.
asciilifeform: phf: annotate laboriously, by hand, and painfully aware of the impedance mismatches
mircea_popescu: phf but these adnotations are necessarily not translateable.
adlai: rather than some continually-shifting goalpost that asymptotically approaches whatever sentience seems least broken
phf: asciilifeform: while the goals are different, the mechanism is the same. you annotate classes, methods and get stable refs in your lisp instance, which shares heap with the running c++ process.
asciilifeform: but the mythical os.
asciilifeform: obviously not with the cpp garbage.
adlai: my understanding is that nobody here wants to make bitcoind, the minimal concrete-sealed weaponized Bitcoin-that-Exists, able to compile a new version of itself
asciilifeform: (and this is pointedly not the intent of shiva.)
asciilifeform: cpp is not merely braindamaged, it is a roadkill that has sat in the sun for all of july
adlai: while you may want missile guidance on board the missile, you might not want the chip fab on board as well
asciilifeform: even if this were so, this breaks the language semantics.
phf: adlai: i don't see the difference. both require you to annotate your classes/method/data somehow. clasp requires less annotation with larger impact then tinyscheme, e.g. it knows about c++ and can do some advanced ffi-ing
adlai: phf: also, afaict, clasp is designed for manipulating existing C++ libraries with your own tendrils, rather than tendriling an existing turdatron. tinyscheme is designed for the latter.
mircea_popescu: well so then. i don't want 10x as many people that can jump 1m. i want people who can jump 10m now.
mircea_popescu: as the linecount you're digesting increases you don't need more people. you need smarter ones. it's not like if you need one brick carried you hire one lout and ifg you need 10000 you hire 10000. it's like if you want 1kg carried you can use a dog, and if you need 10 tons you gotta learn to speak whale now.
asciilifeform: hey, having resources and having the brains to not stoke the furnace with'em are different things
mircea_popescu: so then ... it doesn't.
adlai: modern CL (as opposed to the ANSI doorstop) is a tool that evolved from a standard. r5rs is a standard. tinyscheme is a tool. etc etc... vita brevis, but there are at least a couple usable artes
asciilifeform: 'scheme is the good half of cl'
phf: adlai: clasp is a good fit for tendriling trb, if i had more time, i'd use it in a similar way to shiva. but then i'm already building trb on llvm/clang, etc. it is anti-ba though because of pedigree and ownership problem. can use it, if you have resources to read through 5 or so 100k loc projects
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 19:07:51; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390963 << look into clasp then, i'd just started digging into it when asciilifeform released shiva
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391465 << afaik, clasp will be superior to other lisps only if the bulk of your friction is at the interface itself. specifically, it does NOT have the same level of slime support you'd find in the mature lisp (sbcl and ccl)
mircea_popescu: do her insides answer to you or don't they.
mircea_popescu: physics is a well known whore. behaves the exact same way.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you know what "not making the cut" is wqith a woman ? even if you're a saudi prince and your daddy buys her for you ; even if you're an afghan monkey and she deeply believes she has to. there's a point where you make the cut or don't, and that's what it is.
asciilifeform: (the 'llvm is satanic and must die' thing is not as clear-cut as i would like, it is actually MORE readable and hackable than gcc. but i'm allergic, i confess.)
phf: clasp is very much anti-ba, there's no question about it, pulls a lot of projects together, of questionable pedigree
mircea_popescu: <adlai> if "standards" is plural, it's already noncompliant <<< for the record, the reason the enemy uses the plural there isn't that the enemy is this stupid, but that it believes in patchwork. ie, standards : one for this, one for that, together they make up a complete thing.
ben_vulpes: adlai: i don't know shit, frere, i just drag in dead birds for the adults to dispose of.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this is for a motherfucking crystalspace project
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 15:24:32; asciilifeform: y suffered from delusions of physics - he was 'raised for physics' by his father, but didn't make the cut, and never lived it down
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391028 << i wonder what 'not making the cut' looks like these days. not willing to burn ones youth on the pyre of tenure-track whoring?
asciilifeform: the highest climb that has no joe.
phf: asciilifeform: original conception requires "sufficiently smart patch" then, unless i'm missing something
ben_vulpes can hear the retching from here
ben_vulpes: if you have information to the contrary...
asciilifeform: but it is pretty much the opposite of what we want here.
asciilifeform: there are good examples of this kind of thing, from the past, see 'chicken' and 'stalin'
asciilifeform: see, there are multiple ways to go about it
mircea_popescu: anyway, notice the fractal beauty of the world : list 1 is really "the wot" ; list 2 is necessarily the lordship list. and by its very nature ... you can or can not chose various different lordships depending on what it is you're trying to do.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that's when you bring out the press depth knob. OR alternatively sign the ones you want! and then press using a wot that contains only ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform still, this is the "orig" for that.
asciilifeform: vtron, in primary mode of operation, is to climb the tree, as high as it can on each branch, operating using the current wotset
mircea_popescu: oh god, the wot!
asciilifeform: you vary the vot.
asciilifeform: the wot!
asciilifeform: BUT THE WOT
asciilifeform: it is because, in my original concept, the main knob that is to be twiddled by the operator is not the press head,
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski another translation challenger appears: http://trilema.com/2010/inca-o-pozitie-sexuala/
mircea_popescu: and even without the economic consideration, from a purely intellectual perspective. what is this inhuman, anti-intellectual "the bitcoin developers" bs ? we're not living in the village of pythagora over here, and we don't expect "anonymity" to stand in for sovereignity like five years old. gimme the motherfucking list.
ben_vulpes: has the unexpected advantage of making alf barf
mircea_popescu: it is also the fundamental instrument by which intelligent people are to assure their subsistence. because yea, naggum had a very good point with the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 11:10:04; jurov: that aside, there are completely different set of requirements, like, easy debugging. if lisp, then rather something with slime and good library bundled.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390963 << look into clasp then, i'd just started digging into it when asciilifeform released shiva
phf: ah that gives you ability to press purely from wot knowledge, without reading the patch
mircea_popescu: (this approach probably makes the ancient "group is the enemy of intelligent life" / "only threat to wot model is agreement" etc painfully obvious - if a, c and d are a compact i'll just note them epsilon and pretend it's one thing)
mircea_popescu: whereas by building D i am in the situation where i know it's enough for d to lie.
mircea_popescu: so by building B in the example i am in the situation where i know a and c and d must ALL lie.
mircea_popescu: question 2 is : who are all the people on whose word i am implicitly depending by building this ?
mircea_popescu: question 1 is : who are all the people who contributed to this ?
phf: mircea_popescu: is that a list of names that correspond to .wot? i.e. each patch has (asciilifeform, mod6, etc.) and then there's a set of all wots for current press?
mircea_popescu: sure, people may maintain sparkly-clean trees for whatever reason anyway. but in general as to the "main" tree, best avoid both horns of the dilemma and tryt and sit in the middle.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd say it's a degree question. if a hole found close to the surface, supuration is advised. if not, let blood carry the germs out. just like the body treats infection.
asciilifeform: but there it is.
asciilifeform: this is my official take on the question, which obviously nobody has to listen to.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the first list for B is a b c d whereas the 2nd list for B is (a) ; (c) ; (d) ie 3 lists.
asciilifeform: manually re-grinding everything every fucking time somebody finds a bug, is scutwork, and the time could be used to do something useful.
asciilifeform: we can live with the history !
asciilifeform: mod6: if you want to backport the patch and the afterpatch, etc. i will read and sign the result.
mircea_popescu: phf actually asciilifeform has a point : two signature lists are needed. complete and dependent. C = all signatures seen on any of the packages pressed ; D = the set of all signatures on which the current press depends - ie, without them you can't reach that leaf.
mod6: i wanted a whole replacement for asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring.vpatch, not just the fix.
mod6: should I do mine first? then you can make your changes.
mod6: just imagine that they don't exist, now we need to reimplement those changes.
mod6: then recode all this stuff.
asciilifeform: (in the orchestra, that is)
mircea_popescu: punkman no because it has genesis in there.
punkman: mircea_popescu: phf yes, the list of all signatures seen to reach that leaf. << that would just return "asciilifeform" :P
assbot: You rated user phf on 24-Jun-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Fixed our boxen!.
mircea_popescu: phf yes, the list of all signatures seen to reach that leaf.
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] What the rebooted DeLorean can learn from Singer, Pagani, and Bitcoin. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/31/what-the-rebooted-delorean-can-learn-from-singer-pagani-and-bitcoin/
mod6: this patch just comes after the original
mod6: ok unpacked ur tarball. verified the sigs.
mircea_popescu: well as the great robbie williams one said, "at least now we know"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: jurov is not to blame, the original design tip was actually mine
asciilifeform: so the readme is a lie.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391302 <<< dawg simmer down, it's not like jurov wrote it with the express purpose of aggravating you.
mircea_popescu: i had the silent intuition that there'd be a second gate in between the code and the "war of comments" outer gate discussed in thr logs last week. there is! this!
asciilifeform: i am SICK AND MOTHERFUCKING TIRED of 'your line is 1 char too long fuckyou'
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking program is supposed to be written as a tree not as a fucking scroll
mircea_popescu: which leads me to the following : it's not JUST patches that should be "thematically grouped".
asciilifeform: l0lz wake up up when i can see the actual src in this thing
mircea_popescu: well really the ast, but whatevs.
mircea_popescu: because what he really wanted was ths svg (not the PDF!!!) of a book
mircea_popescu: by now alf no longer really wants the book
mod6: asciilifeform: what was interesting on these ones is that not only idn't they contain *.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig -- they were: *.vpatch.asc
mod6: thats how i tested and built the stuff yesterday at phf's behest.
asciilifeform: it won't alter the hash
asciilifeform: mod6: what prevents you from renaming them ?
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 22:21:25; mod6: and speaking of which, i'd also like to note that all of the sigs (seals) in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html are misnamed. http://dpaste.com/1KRXSBM.txt
phf: asciilifeform: dropped your patch into the graph thingy, http://104.131.72.249/patches/ is doing right thing
asciilifeform: i will no longer use the ml to submit patches.
asciilifeform: in order to issue the verstring fix
asciilifeform: mod6: is malleus in the trunk ?
mod6: <+mod6> <+ben_vulpes> "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"? << i've just run this again myselfand logged output here: http://dpaste.com/0P2QXYG.txt I'm not sure how what you saw happened there. :/ << im wondering if this could be related to a GPG version thing or something? because the line of code that is executed here is this:
mod6: furthermore ...
mod6: danielpbarron: hey there Sir, wanna update the wiki & test the steps from a newb standpoint when you get a moment? Y^
asciilifeform: ok gimme 10min or so then.
asciilifeform: but i do not know how to issue the patch
asciilifeform: i fixed the very subtle version number setting bug
mod6: <+trinque> mod6: ah yep, I saw that doing the makefiles << umm.. thats bad. because that means it doens't happen to me, but apparently it happens "in the field" from time to time?
trinque: nice, I taught a girl with that one too, then graduated her to SICP
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ;;later tell mod6 https://7chan.org/pr/src/The_Little_Schemer_4th_2.pdf << a real joy of a b00k, i taught a gurl scheme once from it << hey thanks!
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> ;;later tell mod6 stick a random file with .html suffix in the patches dir to reproduce the stale gnupg dir big << this is what I'll test with.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> unrelatedly, while we're ripping the rug out from under mod6, is there a good reason to continue with the inconsistent directory structure of `./.seals' and `./patches'? << this was in alf's original POC. i think it can stay. especially because you *can* name the dirs whatever you wish.
trinque: mod6: ah yep, I saw that doing the makefiles
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"? << i've just run this again myselfand logged output here: http://dpaste.com/0P2QXYG.txt I'm not sure how what you saw happened there. :/
phf: mircea_popescu: hey trinque jurov phf : would it be possible to take that very nice graph phf showed, turn it into a proper svg and have the nodes clickable ? << like http://104.131.72.249/patches/? (is in no way bulletproof, so i expect it to be down by the time i come back from breakfast)
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> yo mod6 what does it mean in perl to do my $var = "string" . \n "otherstring" is the period a linebreak escape in perl, and the variable implicitly a concatenation of the two strings << where do you see this? this is not a thing. that would fail to compile/pass-interpreter-smell-test.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 https://7chan.org/pr/src/The_Little_Schemer_4th_2.pdf << a real joy of a b00k, i taught a gurl scheme once from it
mircea_popescu: which is kinda why both nullities are so fascinated with theoretical socialism and why practical implementations of socialism amount to such resplendent nothing.
mircea_popescu: "oh but what of equality!" "the only thing equal to all its downstream is 0".
mircea_popescu: either she keeps going, in which case she's not in the harem yet, or else gives up, in which case there's the answer.
asciilifeform: then yes
mircea_popescu: well i said the not a. woman who wants to know why she isn't in any particular one ~need only ask herself~.
asciilifeform: but there is not necessarily a reason why she is not in ~the particular~ harem, and it is not the duty of that harem keeper to provide a logical 'reason'
mircea_popescu: woman that wants to know why she's not in the harem needs only ask herself.
asciilifeform: there is this notion, probably rooted in very fundamental christian 'inner light' poison, that the excluding group has the burden of explaining to rando derp who asks 'but why not me!?'
mircea_popescu: community doesn't mean "everyone". nor does it mean "people you'd expect". a guy's harem is not composed of all the women that exist, or all the women he ran into. nvertheless, it works just fine.
asciilifeform: la is their way of life and they wonder why nothing can ever get done because all available time and any available resources get wasted in an effort to sort a group. (The Italians are the exact same way, by the way, and from what I hear the Greeks idem.)' << from mircea_popescutron
asciilifeform: 'So, are you whiter than him or darker than him ? If whiter, you go before him, if darker after him. Problem of "who goes first" solved, and inasmuch as it's an irrelevant problem anyway, it doesn't matter how it's solved just as long as it's solved. The Arabs implement this exact solution, which is why I never saw buluceala in their very popular mosques. The Romanians do not implement it, or anything else, and as such bulucea
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, re the community thing.
assbot: Logged on 02-01-2016 16:39:19; ascii_rear: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine
asciilifeform: also reminds me of the 'buluceala' article
mircea_popescu: takes me straight to "The #bitcoin-assets aristocracy is not incompetent. Whether in anyone's estimation others not named are just as or even more competent is immaterial : arbitrariety is not the problem, incompetence is."
asciilifeform: possibly works there ?
asciilifeform: ^ the highlighty thing never worked on any browser i could find, ftr
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform original rock in construction is when you encounter stuff that's baseline and can't be dug into. in v-programming, when you've dug your way all the way to the genesis.
asciilifeform: and what's the 'original rock' ?
mircea_popescu: but the point does stand, that gold on mars is not gold but just a metal.
asciilifeform: right now there are simply insufficient flies, and their proboscis - insufficiently sharp and long, to make this point properly felt.
mircea_popescu: there is no objective money.
mircea_popescu: the whole node conundrum
mircea_popescu: anyway. this is a poorly understood point as of yet at all levels - the clergy and the populace.
mircea_popescu: research went into this in the deep, dank cellars of my dirigible. there's a lot of the original rock involved. it may even not be wrong design, horror of horrors.
asciilifeform: which is why i predict that bitcoin is condemned to migrate behind the very tall fortress walls of something like gossipd
asciilifeform: but yes, it fundamentally it violates the principle i stated here as 'nobody gets anything just for showing up, or the flies eat the meat' (see the bastard blocks thread, and the single-packet authentication as elixir against ddos threads)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform technically, you don't get to factor back-ups, because the chain itself is its best backup.
asciilifeform: and if we calculate the ~long-term~ cost for me of storing 14kB, not only the disk, but the mains current, migrating from disk to disk, parity checks nightly, etc. - this is a pretty penny
mircea_popescu: i know, that's why i put that sort of stuff in. help the thinking hats.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2016 16:29:32; mircea_popescu: it's fucking ridiculous. the current cost of 14.7kb is something like
mircea_popescu: and the problem with narratives is the same problem train tracks have : 20 miles away from the track is much further than 200 miles DOWN the track
mircea_popescu: because the thing is so complicated it encourages people to approach it through narratives rather than observation
mircea_popescu: the obvious parts especially
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for some reason none of the 'not terrible' folk express the thing in correct terms, which is that tx is a ~cost~ to other people who run nodes
mircea_popescu: https://topynate.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/note-on-the-block-size-limit/ << not terrible.
mircea_popescu: check it out - socialists agree it's the victim's fault!
mircea_popescu: "The ?little guy? now possesses a large amount of anger about the political system that doesn't work for him, which shouldn?t be surprising since he repeatedly voted against his own interests during the republican tenure. " <<< aaaahahahaha.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 09:26:17; diana_coman: thanks ben_vulpes , I'll have a look; it's been ages since I last wrote anything in Scheme as such, but if there's a chance of moving the client away from cpp it's certainly worth having a look at
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390950 << more complicated than that. all in good time, except the boys keep getting excited and outrunning the horses!
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 08:05:44; punkman: I'd help rig it up if the foundation so wishes
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 07:36:07; ben_vulpes: this is probably a purposes and causes thing, huh. avoid working towards the purpose of usable software for other people, and proceed from the cause of "hell is other people's code"...
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390908 << mno. the idea is that "code usable by other people" is nonsense. instead - write code well, that SHOULD be usable, and if it isn't usable the people can be fixed.
mircea_popescu: the stuff women spawn into this world is simply out of this world in its broken, surprisingly counterfunctional variety
mircea_popescu: he who has been a teacher will not be amused at the zoo.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 14:46:32; asciilifeform: 'who has been in the army, does not laugh in the circus' (tm) (r) (su)
mircea_popescu: the thing with being a teacher is that it trains you to neglect so much lols.
asciilifeform: as for the multitude of vtrons, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, but i am seeing folks suffer from easily-curable issues that were not present in my original prototype (which, recall, had NO state other than patch/seal/keys working set, and did not use the net, and had the 'origin' command, etc.)
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 07:35:23; ben_vulpes: is everyone who hacks on this thing to write and use their own vtronic cockpit controls? or is the production of /a/ vtron usable in other contexts a goal?
asciilifeform: it is actually quite feasible to have a patch that 'touches everything' but is visually inspectable in three minutes - e.g., mod6's proposed 'release patch' that merely tacks a comment to the top of every file.