pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400919 << heh. ok so now i see that this 'news' was already in the logs. but does 'motherboard' actually publish the contact lists ? nah. do i ? you bet.
mircea_popescu: take for instance the berman real numbers thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he says right there, garey & johnson
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally ... what about the set of ultra np ?
asciilifeform: by using the smaller-unit meatgrinders.
asciilifeform: a break in the larger-blocked cipher is likely to rely on known structure
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-30 Douglas A. Gwyn: "...I can exhibit the design for a block cipher that is demonstrably secure according to the rules of the game, although it wouldn't be *practical*." << you should write to him, too.
mircea_popescu: if you have ciphers A B C with block lengths lA lB lC, then the chaining should be applied in such order that l1 > l2 > l3.
asciilifeform: (and there is still des somewhere?!! where?)
asciilifeform: (at least large portions thereof)
asciilifeform: it helped a little that google 'lost' the dejanews archive
mircea_popescu: anyway. aes and des should be excommunicated out of everything asap, there's no two ways about it.
mircea_popescu: yet somehow the decades passed for no benefit and idiots still pretend like it's never happened. outrageous.
mircea_popescu: apparently all the stuff i proposed as common sense was in point of fact common sense plainly said on public list 20 years ago.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's point re: orcs is well-illustrated in the mega-compendium. observe how the crackpots who can barely string coherent words together, actually sit closer to the dirty truth than the 'educated' folk
asciilifeform: which is the case for virtually all symmetric ciphers
mircea_popescu: howly shit, a 7500 town worth 2mn, and the bribes going to mayor ~ part of a used car ?
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1398875 << and further felicitations are due to ben v !
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 17:35:13; BingoBoingo: In other news, Qntra just passed 1000 posts. http://qntra.net/2016/02/dprk-launches-satellite-into-space/ was number 1000
pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399063 << also (in the last few weeks) first time the market cap of qntra has breached 100 btc. to both of which, bravo bravo bravo
mircea_popescu: lol i see you like the wolf form idea!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1401405 << solved in the same way travelling salesman is 'solved'
mod6: <+jurov> mod6: ben_vulpes got an email "bitcoin-foundation.info expires in 60 days" << yeah, we've got 'thebitcoin.foundation' until like 2020 iirc. we're good.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile notice that EVERYONE is on aes to the degree people are treating it like windows.
mircea_popescu: strong.' Why? Because we *can't* know how strong our ciphers *really* are to the other guy. But we *can* -- guaranteed -- make The Opponent pay dearly to keep up.""
mircea_popescu: "1998-10-26 Terry Ritter: "We *never* know that a cipher is strong. Ever." "Now, we might 'consider' a cipher strong when all *our* guys have looked at it and found no break. But, quite frankly, the *other* guys have more training, more experience, more resources, more time, and they may even be smarter than our guys." "I claim it is more important to have many different ciphers than to have a few which are 'considered
mircea_popescu: "1998-10-18 dscott@networkusa.net: "Part of the NSA job is to keep the world in the dark about real ctypto. Think about it. What better way to do it than by creating crypto preists for people to whorship."" and apparently this was well understood 18 years ago, also.
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-18 W T Shaw: "In Bruce's work, there are sinful omissions and comissions, but the subject is so large that this would always be a surity in some form. To judge his character, we will see if he mentions in the future any things he has previously ignored and have been pointed out directly to him." << no. as confirmed throughout and including 18 years later.
mircea_popescu: " everything looks like a boolean satisfiability problem. This problem, also called SAT, is NP-complete, which means that every instance of any problem in NP can be efficiently reduced to a SAT instance. And, importantly, there are SAT solvers out there which are very efficient for many problems encountered in practice."
asciilifeform: someday make what the Soviet Union had look like a dream of a long
asciilifeform: like is the spying on Americans for political reasons that will
asciilifeform: this other bloke
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: removes itops out of the equation in lieu of developers slowly losing sanity to ruby
thestringpuller: the one that shipped with the product that uses it doesn't even have the symbol in it?!?!?
thestringpuller: so I run readelf on all the libcrypto***.so's
thestringpuller: but apparently it doesn't know how to find the right .so to link
asciilifeform: and apparently the man died yesterday, and his site is gone.
thestringpuller: the thing ships with it's own libcrypto library
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: today from the mines. I'm setting up puppet which uses openssl
mircea_popescu: but in other news, i shall brb, for duty calls. ( http://49.media.tumblr.com/41d2478fe09e54b02e6239e54c59bb07/tumblr_nxpjm8l98j1qlne6uo1_500.gif duty is the one wearing white)
mircea_popescu: but this ran up to the dozen.
mircea_popescu: but herein we find the elixir of my tolerance of orcs that perhaps bedazzles you alf. this is it : they may be stupid, but at least they're not TRAINEDLY dumb.
asciilifeform: '1. Someone proposes a scheme based on Hard Problem X. X looks strong, but the resulting scheme either is too slow or has gigantic keys. 2. Someone else comes along and proposes a related scheme based on Hard Problem Y which, having more structure, allows for either smaller keys or faster computation. 3. Later turns out this extra structure also helps the attacker.'
assbot: This sort of thing is a recurring theme in cryptography:1. Someone proposes a ... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1TbgFOg )
asciilifeform: in all seriousness, i mathematicize mentally more or less wholly geometrically.
mircea_popescu: but currently, a box wherein you input code on one end, and it outputs this peculiar graph at arbitrary zoom level is the most valuable computer i can think of.
asciilifeform: if you ~know~ the class of weak keys, you can define them not-keys and have no weak keys !
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2015 18:12:58; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'for your convenience we have packaged the defective transistors separately' ? (famous)
mircea_popescu: show me the 1024kb graph of arbitrary scheme.
mircea_popescu: in principle, at 100% granularity this would then result in an image 2^256 or however many pixesl wide. fine.
mircea_popescu: you know, so this algo has N keys, fine, the space is N. caqlculate the complexity for all of them, sort the weakest to the left, draw it for me.
mircea_popescu: oh wow, bitbet uses google charts, i forgot. anyway. likew one of the bitbet charts!
mircea_popescu: holy shit what the fuck happened
mircea_popescu: ie the problem could be reducxible
mircea_popescu: anyway, the more i think about this tyhe more im convinced our problems are really one problem : the absence of a proved mechanism to create the difficulty graph of a primitive.
asciilifeform: (lulzier when we get ~different~ arithmetic!11 as in the otp mega-thread)
mircea_popescu: what we want is some actual methods to calculate the difficulty curve over the space
asciilifeform: hey maths are the same for everybody.
mircea_popescu: have the message specify the conditionation, and then how the fuck are you going to extract it if you don't know what you're starting from
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, another thought occurs : maybe the way to go is make the key a matrix and go for something like the maximum volume submatrix problem somewhere in there.
asciilifeform: let the man speak for himself.
asciilifeform: i'ma write to herr blaze, then.
asciilifeform: oh and now i'm curious what the spam said
asciilifeform: and the rest of his blog, lulzy
asciilifeform: he's the one who broke randi's cipher
asciilifeform: further dig reveals that it was mentioned in a few places, fwiw.
asciilifeform: i dug up this old luger in the forest, aha. and i've no idea whether it fires forwards or backwards, of yet.
asciilifeform: and no, i don't have a vintage copy of this thing on dead tree, or the like
mircea_popescu: me either as i just saw it.
asciilifeform: note, i have not gone over the proof!
asciilifeform: (or did this, too, come up in the spam filter)
asciilifeform: vs the two linked
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to be clear, i'm discussing the 'turtle' paper
asciilifeform: but interesting nonetheless, if i were hitler i would order 10,001 'provably np-hard' ciphers to be created.
mircea_popescu: i'd almost be mildly insulted, if it weren't for the fact that my fucking spam filter identified it correctly on the first pass.
asciilifeform: and wtf is with the character encoding in that pdf.
mircea_popescu: well this item is from mid 90s, sat buried for the interval.
asciilifeform: interestingly, blaze uses the term 'cryptovariable' in his code
mircea_popescu: btw, how's the "ethereum ecosystem" doing these days ? all the shit they were going to launch months ago... just around the corner!
asciilifeform: but there is 1 alleged proof.
asciilifeform: if there were 1,001 alleged proofs, i'd throw out this one perhaps, because annoying
asciilifeform: anyway i don't give a fuck what he said, i want to know if the proof actually proves anything of interest.
mircea_popescu: when people go all scholarly and shit on me, and start with the "We show" bullcrap i fucking expect them to use the words they mean to use.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between "can rarely be" and "never is". they do not speak of the same world.
mircea_popescu: large integers. Modern symmetrickey ciphers, on the other hand, can rarely be reduced to widely
mircea_popescu: PeterL basically the us' main export product.
mircea_popescu: ah ok then :D
PeterL: nah mag sulphate got demoted from the name, it's fine to use
asciilifeform: anyway mircea_popescu , m. blaze's 'turtle' is, afaik, the only ~claimed~ provably-hard block cipher (non-otp) that i was able to track down.
mircea_popescu: "Bath Salts: As of July 22, 2011 possession of Bath Salts is a Class 4 Felony with the same sentencing as above." ahahaha wut.
polarbeard: there we go
minzie_: he isnt online at the moment, is he?
asciilifeform: and srsly, i don't even see the point in thinking about that one.
mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/44ogum/coinodealcom_western_union_scam_300/ << why the fuck does redditard have 300 dollars.
asciilifeform: FASTER THAN EITHER!11111
asciilifeform: what i was wondering is how the author of the comment came to think that this fits the specs given
asciilifeform: anybody can do that, it was actually the first thing i suggested
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't see what is so hot about the composition thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-116484 < if you care about the curios. spam filter had them before.
mircea_popescu: sure. just, the bleeding here is hidden.
asciilifeform: see the 'implementer belongs in fermentation vat' point
mircea_popescu: just as long as this a) doesn't invalidate assumptions required by one in a way operator couldn't verify and b) they are actually independent, as opposed to "i thought they were"
asciilifeform: and, again, if the ciphertrons are INDEPENDENT, you can't do any damage by adding a damaged link downstream.
mircea_popescu: also asuming that A USEFUL WAY TO COMPOSE is always available is nonsense. and certainly asuming that the obvious composition is correct.
asciilifeform: if the composed elements are FULLY independent - composes.
asciilifeform: also, i will defend the notion that crypto - composes. usefully. the contrary notion is due 100% to retarded implementers, who belong in fermenting vat
asciilifeform: so why specifically can we rule the thing out physically
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever read feynman's original paper on the subj ?
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't per se object to girl wearing "lightsaber armorer" cocktail dress, if that's the fashion, as long as it grabs her tits and waist right etc.
BingoBoingo: Ah. I guess a point could be made that if Obama's Hope and Change didn't fix the problem Bernie's isn't likely to either.
mircea_popescu: it belongs in the same heap as the audible / visible lasers, the bullets that spark off rock walls & al.
mircea_popescu: it is pointedly NOT a scientific notion, for the record, not anymore than communism is ; and in no danger of ever becoming one, such as occasionally sf items did become.
PeterL: BingoBoingo but the comment agrees with your article
mircea_popescu: was specifically discussing "quantum" as the literary fanon concept
BingoBoingo: PeterL: It mentioned the Bern, just kinda assumed it was. Didn't read too closely.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the latter is demonstrably false
mircea_popescu: it has exactly 0% chances to exist. if it did exist, however, the changes would be far reaching enough to render any present arrangements void anyway.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i on the other hand am more than willing to die by this imaginary "quantum" computing.
BingoBoingo: As long as the email hasn't been used in spam, email isn't going to be the thing that makes or breaks a comment's journey past the spam filter
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/02/us-department-of-education-driving-tuition-increases/#comment-45435 << alright, who's the troll
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which is why i'd rather not live and die solely by the discrete log problem.
asciilifeform: see, i'm unwilling to entirely discount the 'quantum' calculator thing.
asciilifeform: also interesting property, in c-s, you lose the chosen-ciphertext attack resistance if you split the message.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was trying to figure out if it is separable from his use of the diffie hellman decision problem as the basis for the system
mircea_popescu: then turn into your wolf form and cheat some more.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:53:11; asciilifeform: and irc frontend makes sense, thinkaboutit, nobody wants to use a cruddy ui hacked up for the occasion, everyone already has something reasonable that is irctronic
BingoBoingo: Something derping about them and Bitpay. Been spending much of the morning looking for stories of steam explosions or other disasters.
mircea_popescu: and in other "strange cargo cult worshippers of incomprehensible machine-god" news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7qiu7mzXa1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:25:39; danielpbarron: you can color it however you like; I color nicknames based on my rating of them in the WoT
phf: as demonstrated by outside-bombai indian woman feet, walking around barefoot all the time doesn't do your skin any sort of justice
mircea_popescu: not that anyone agrees with me on the topic in teh household(s)
mircea_popescu: i suspek the only effectiveness of the lotioning is that it keeps them from doing stuff / touching the spot for a while
asciilifeform: l0l must be like the fingers of guitarist !
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7vsgzW6Br1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg << i wonder if all teh people that are into this stuff realise that the only reason a woman's skin is soft is specifically that she doesn't go around barefood & naked in chains.
phf: asciilifeform: is the whole thing in c?
asciilifeform: and irc frontend makes sense, thinkaboutit, nobody wants to use a cruddy ui hacked up for the occasion, everyone already has something reasonable that is irctronic
asciilifeform: jurov: they are usually unreleased for ~reason~
phf: asciilifeform: it actually speaks a subset of irc then?
trinque: along with the new deedbot, lol
assbot: Ghostface Killah Says “Shithead" Martin Shkreli Should Release One-of-a-Kind Wu-Tang Album | News | Pitchfork ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5xSCj )
punkman: http://pitchfork.com/news/63083-ghostface-killah-says-shithead-martin-shkreli-should-release-one-of-a-kind-wu-tang-album/
trinque: tried weechat.el, will probably end up using that when I bother to do something sensible around hightlight notifications
trinque: my setup was much like phf's, had a few znc crashes/freezes and trashed the lot for weechat in a tmux somewhere
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu i was looking at generalizing the 'oracle' resistance from cramer-shoup to other systems
jurov: znc indeed is prone to overwriting conf, best to stop it and then edit if you must
asciilifeform: should it also massage the wife for you ?
ben_vulpes: then there's some default password implementation the specifics of which i forget but was miserably bad
jurov: Interesting there are some bets despite I have not advertised it yet. Local bitcoiners do follow bitbet :)
ben_vulpes: let us start with the completely fucking retarded web admin panel
phf: i don't have an opinion on it. i have znc, bitlbee and erc all very lightly configured to work together, and i basically don't use anything else for comms
BingoBoingo: jurov: Which side of the election are we rooting for?
jurov: it changed "ÁNO" to "NO" which is the opposite
ben_vulpes: phf: the best erc setup i've come up with is to run it through mosh in a terminal
ben_vulpes: light terminal, yes. specific color scheme at that. and no no fucking dark text editor because i have to pull up web pages and am right back at the original problem!
BingoBoingo: It's a shame no one still connects to IRC by touching two wires together rhythmically
ben_vulpes: no i want the whole screen tan-ish
ben_vulpes: mother
ben_vulpes: i motherfucking hate switching over to a dark terminal after using a light text editor
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the suggestions continue to stack up
ben_vulpes: i had a pertinent question before the payroll people distracted me
ben_vulpes: their eeeemailz!
assbot: Hacker Publishes Personal Info of 20,000 FBI Agents | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q7dHKr )
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:14:13; ben_vulpes: "The cybercriminal reached out to Motherboard through an apparently compromised DOJ email account earlier last week, and claimed to have obtained the stolen data by compromising that account and then using it to access a DOJ portal."
ben_vulpes: "go sit in the corner! you've been bad."
ben_vulpes: 5 days lol they do timeouts now?
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: i mean how am i supposed to know what's going on in the far-flung provinces
ben_vulpes: "The cybercriminal reached out to Motherboard through an apparently compromised DOJ email account earlier last week, and claimed to have obtained the stolen data by compromising that account and then using it to access a DOJ portal."
mircea_popescu: SEPA member, even easier than in the us.
ben_vulpes: that is precisely the plan next time.
mircea_popescu: move to romania, run it from there ; small biz costs you a few % in taxes and you get a person to do all your filings + basic legal support for a coupla hundred dollars/month.
ben_vulpes: but intuit goes so far as to lobby against simplifying the american taxtuation so they can do 'ez' taxes for derps
ben_vulpes: they're all useless
mircea_popescu: which one was inuit again ? the useless one ?
mircea_popescu: and in further "who the fuck runs away in heels" news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1axg3As9J1qddd4so1_1280.jpg
ben_vulpes: subject of sv, it looks like i'll be on hold with intuit until the halvening
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> how about disrupting the blowjob? << picking the long hairs out of the short hairs?
ben_vulpes: how about disrupting the blowjob?
mircea_popescu: such as i dunno wtf these schmucks did before becoming "scientists", but i imagine revolutionizing keyboards and inventing better paper clips
mircea_popescu: well, the science is setled alright : there is no science in "climate blabla, back to more productive uses.
BingoBoingo: d" face the inevitable and logical consequence of that stance."
BingoBoingo: Just deserts from the mines "With an ax rather than a scalpel, Australia's federal science agency last week chopped off its climate research arm in a decision that has stunned scientists and left employees dispirited. Why? Because the science is settled, there is no need for more basic research, the government says. No doubt many will experience a case of schadenfreude as they see those who have long claimed "the science is settle
ben_vulpes: grounded in the river elbe
ben_vulpes: mega container ship grounded in the elbe for FIVE DAYS
mircea_popescu: my foreskin generally retracts on the first pass, just how wide IS this woman ?
ben_vulpes: you name the sucks?
mircea_popescu: name the thugs ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i chastise, yes, but i don't believe in destroying the woman. canes, not clubs.
asciilifeform: without db locks patch at the least
asciilifeform: surely that was not the last release ?
jurov: the last trb release is a WRONG thing nao?
BingoBoingo actually rather surprised mircea_popescu doesn't already have 6D club in his dungeon, for appearances if nothing else.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400478 << i will admit that i am not certain i have ever met in the flesh, other than chetty, a woman who wrote software
BingoBoingo: They also make AA and AAA versions likely for nostril fucking
BingoBoingo: But seriously these things are useful for beating down most things. Better made for that than some hammers I've seen
asciilifeform: i thought we were thinking specifically of the 6 'd'
BingoBoingo: <phf> i thought police carries those oversized maglites for the purpose of using them as batons in a pinch << yes. For this 4, 5, or 6 D cell models
asciilifeform: and wtf, i don't read with these, would happily buy even red led
phf: i thought police carries those oversized maglites for the purpose of using them as batons in a pinch
asciilifeform: i have both kinds, from same maker, the krypton incandescent one is a club now
asciilifeform: they use white led here
BingoBoingo: But flashlight are the only thing US does, so now cottage industry around making them into other things
mircea_popescu: they can't make a plane or maintain the roads, but by god have you seen how superior their flashlights are over the orcs' ?
mircea_popescu: actually to risk going on a limb : the us is an ex-industrial pwoerhouse, made pseudo-rich by uninspired finalcial arrangements. the degeneracy that necessarily came from that picked a tiny topic and is making the glory of past days play out all over it. that topic is flashlights.
mircea_popescu: they're insane.
mircea_popescu: it boggles the mind, what the fuck people are doing with flashlights over there these days.
mircea_popescu: because there's a humongo market of ... flashlights, of all things, in the us. and trying to invent value for it so the assburger'd males keep buying them
mircea_popescu: the task is : to compute a) and b) for N2`, N3`` and all N4s.
mircea_popescu: the situation is :
asciilifeform: but did not make its way into the prototype
BingoBoingo: In other news... Do these "storage cups" look a lot like baffles to anyone else? https://archive.is/rn2nx
mircea_popescu: i could hash out a more complex example if it may help, since this NOTATIONAL FORMALISM (see that alf!!!) actually solves the problem of saying graphs. something i wasn't going to do before not because you can't display them, but because im too lazy to draw em.
asciilifeform: it lets folks actually press a release, for example, without requiring 'papal infallibility' for the release signers; and, likewise importantly, it lets developer press 'i want a thing will all of my shit but not the discarded erroneous crud'
mircea_popescu: this is the counterposed thing. in this case, i would wish for N6 to know that a) abc and b) c ; whereas for N4 that a) abc and b) a OR b and finally for N2 that a) abc and b) a Or B or C
asciilifeform: the 'longest chain sans orphans having sigs S1,S2...Sx' is quite essential.
mircea_popescu: what i said then phf was, i must be able to tell a) which people in total contributed and b) on what sets of people does the present press depend.
mircea_popescu: this gets to the core of what i was asking of phf to do with those lists.
asciilifeform: punkman has it, rather.
asciilifeform: what's the problem ?
mircea_popescu: of what ? no, it's not a tie, is c running off with the count