mircea_popescu: so then consider it considered.
Framedragger: i suppose there's no true need, but have you considered moving to a new/different irc network? or can that wait till gossipd saves the internet?
mircea_popescu: it's reasonable to deem they're under a gag order and actively diddled.
mircea_popescu: you know, they announced a major bug which looked just like a nsa plant ; promised a full investigation to soon follow ; haven't spoken a word since.
mircea_popescu: if you try to $rate someone it'll give you another token, every time
mircea_popescu: there's no session involved. what's deedbot to see ?
mircea_popescu: (the split occured because he was in [unannounced] vacation while gribble went down ; after not being reacheable for a few days it looked like we're under attack and a new bot was made ; and properly this time. then nanotube came back, explained he was taking a vacation [all this being right around xmas] and well... no hard feelings, but also no readily available cure.)
mircea_popescu: there was some discussion with nanotube re his rewriting gribble to act properly (ie, sessionless) and interchange data, but it never came to naught. i dun think gribble is still being much maintained. no idea really.
mircea_popescu: all matter prior is found in both ; all matter after is found in one or another.
mircea_popescu: yes, they diverged at some point early 2015.
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469514 <<< toldja I couldn't forget that one, spent half the morning reading turdtalk again as I was editing.
mircea_popescu: ah yeah. i think we'll need to make a "min 4gb ram for new boxes" tmsr standard ; so people can run general purpose + trb on them
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: lemonade from the morning tragedy
trinque: need to spin up a separate box for the node
shinohai: 99% of old articles there
mircea_popescu: hey trinque why does it answer so slowly ? is the lisp machine getting restarted on each call or somesuch ?
mircea_popescu: they've made something in lisp iirc.
Framedragger: what with all the move to #trilema, eh
mircea_popescu: people who've been following along usually can't summon the interest, having other flags that call them stronger.
mircea_popescu: the idea in my head has always been that as intelligent people try to catch up, they'll use the wiki as their scratchpad
mircea_popescu: there is a wiki, would benefit from more maintainer effort.
Framedragger: have you folks considered making a god damn wiki of all these funky letters, or is that too socialist of an effort? :)
mircea_popescu: ideally, one that doesn't support utf. (not necessarily utf per se - just an instantiation of the principle that features may be supported only if inexpensive enough.)
mircea_popescu: kinda why "make a new html" comes in. there's really no reason to support the bullshit. correct move would have been to make a new ssh.
Framedragger: they started by just choosing to prune certain features off of the beast , thereby removing some particularly bad parts
mircea_popescu: it's one of those cases where the team may be better than the codebase ; though honestly, the size of the matzah ball hanging on their head means that they'll prolly get crushed if haven't already
mircea_popescu: they've not really had time to do much at any rate ; how long ago did they split, a year ?
asciilifeform: 'Airplane and engine manufacturers felt they, too, should get their just profits out of this war. Why not? Everybody else was getting theirs. So $1,000,000,000 -- count them if you live long enough -- was spent by Uncle Sam in building airplane engines that never left the ground! Not one plane, or motor, out of the billion dollars worth ordered, ever got into a battle in France. Just the same the manufacturers made their little profi
mircea_popescu: https://panatmansam.tumblr.com/post/97152108836/most-decorated-us-marine-general-purpose-of-all << survives in snippets on the web.
asciilifeform: the rest - snore.
Framedragger: ahhh hence the conversion effort
mircea_popescu: well since phuctor has a bunch of rsa work already done ; converting github rsa keys to a usable format and checking them by the same process isn't that tall a step.
Framedragger: oh i have some of those there.. but they're not important keys anyway. hey that sounds like a nice project
mircea_popescu: also fyi, we're preparing to rape their ssh keys.
Framedragger: re. github, just fyi github is less.. hegemonic these days. gitlab is doing well, and that one's a bit less shit etc. this may sound like a partial solution to a fundamental problem, sure, but mh i dunno.
mircea_popescu: the experience of myspace should be informative in this sense. "network effect" is valuable for as long as the median view is that it's cool people there ; once that goes away, all turner's billions can't fix the suddenly un-critical network effect.
mircea_popescu: in historical terms, "all good things come to the port city", yes. until the port gets a sand bar.
mircea_popescu: i don't credit this "network effect" criticality thing. yes, people came up with that particular rebranding of panglossism to sell inept investors on why they should throw money away. it worked. that the sale pitch worked does not make the theory true.
Framedragger: yeah fair enough, regarding numbers, of course that makes sense. but social networks have this nagging thing of critical mass, sometimes. i know this is a naive viewpoint, but with e.g. networks which are for meets-and-greets, you know, location-based circles whatnot, it does require some amount of people for there to be more people. then again, maybe there are more smart folk around than i presume. though that's a dangerous assumption i
mircea_popescu: trilema is created as a "general purpose for literate people", so it contains lots of mini-versions of otherwise more seriously studied topics.
Framedragger: (heheh in the beginning of that article are you basically quick-tutorialing people about the analytic/synthetic distinction (in a way)? i mean it's about the (possible existence of) truth-conditions of propositions with no reference, but it has this vibe to it)
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> anywya, once mod6 gets that T thing going we can actually create tickets for all this, which'll make the task less insane. << making daily progress!
mircea_popescu: but that's all temporary and a bandaid for a chainsaw wound. in the end, you don't see many oxcarts carrying freight today.
mircea_popescu: and as to the other thing : numbers per se are meaningless. if there's a million truck drivers in the world, and 999`990 use a truck that does 10 mpg and i have 10 people using a truck that does 12 mpg, guess who'll be selling and who'll be buying trucking companies in the not so distant future.
mircea_popescu: but in short : it's not that ~my~ endeavours succeeding ; there's no personal flair involved here, nor any magic. it's that all the endeavours of a certain type will succeed.
Framedragger: hm. i guess your notion of "adoption" is not like many others. i.e., it's not a matter of "whether majority of animals use it", but rather "whether majority of intelligent animals use it", or somesuch. because folks are also super lazy about switching from a broken thing to a more functional and better thing. case in point: much of enterprise software. (not that there may not be good gems there)
mircea_popescu: to put this in context, perhaps http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ is the best read.
mircea_popescu: there's no argument to be had with functionality. not all the talk in the world ; nor all the money nor anything else can stand in front of something that functions.
Framedragger: k, i see the.. angle. i suppose you belief in them having to adapt or die comes from most of your endeavours of the kind succeeding? which - don't get me wrong - is very admirable - but, like, it requires napoleonic levels of confidence. not that it's bad in and of itself
mircea_popescu: there's at least a dozen disparate, independently useful items that go into a gossipd.
mircea_popescu: anywya, once mod6 gets that T thing going we can actually create tickets for all this, which'll make the task less insane.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger actually, the process of creating github and then confusing git for github, aka embrace and extinguish / "rms-ing" is also amply discussed in teh logs :)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger read up on v, it's worth the read. more generally, you are ideologically naive, for which reason you're perhaps missing things. for instance, when i say "add a html parser" i do not mean "introduce support for THEIR definitioon of html". rather, i mean "create our own html, and by its presence passively force them to adapt or die".
mircea_popescu: libs will be reviewed here ; post them.
Framedragger: i mean let's say one wouldn't depend on gnupg or anything like that. fine. use RSA. but with the (admirable) level of scrutiny employed herein, i'd be wary of even suggesting a single implementation of RSA which would not be shitty. i mean, there is libressl...
Framedragger: inside the thing
Framedragger: i hear you. i'm just thinking in more mundane/practical terms, "can i build X without waiting for the everything i'd need for X to also be rewritten"
mircea_popescu: all of them. it's a world ender.
mircea_popescu: a properly made, functioning this will turn the "browser" period over, entirely and without respite. they'll become what the bbs are.
Framedragger: and accidentally won the netscape wars. or whatever
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the ~only way you're going to end up with a web crypto api in browser is if you/someone builds the social media app discussed and then adds a html parser to it.
Framedragger: "apparently you can't EVEN DO MATH in js" << yes yes YES :/ i knowz... that's why people want a web crypto api (crypto itself implemented in browser).. but the answer to your snarky follow-up "that just adds salt to the wound" is yes.. it's doomed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the pgp in js demo ?
mircea_popescu: anyway Framedragger : just THAT fucks up permanently the notion of "crypto in javascript".
mircea_popescu: so it has alll the === lulz, but also... nonfunctioning arithmetic.
mircea_popescu: lmao. i dunno why they have a page about how php sucks, and nothing about javascript. apparently you can't EVEN DO MATH in js (9007199254740993/28059810762433 === 321 is false).
mircea_popescu: a process that'd have been perfectly safe on its own becomes deeply insecure when part of "the community".
mircea_popescu: this is like the anti-vaccine. not immunity through the herd, but insecurity through belonging to a herd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but even as a very low effort thing you know, "everyone's on aws". and they all use the same fashionable shitstack. and there's... millions of them.
asciilifeform: (even a rubbish rng can masquerade as a usable one until you interate through the epochal times)
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 15:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, random guy on reddit points out to a very lulzy attack indeed. consider : you boot up 1k VMs running the same os, and upon boot-up you sshgen. how many keys share primes even if they are properly generated ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469346 << more interesting if you pin the time-of-day down.
mircea_popescu: well now we know what it is, and otherwise, who cares.
mircea_popescu: not putting more in deliberately is one thing ; but actually taking time to remove them... forget it, do it sometime when you do stuff with the site.
asciilifeform: turns out folks are pushing the 'reload' button
asciilifeform: take a careful look at the modulus count
mircea_popescu: Moduli Waiting for Test: 20 << this is like... permanently. pretty incredible, so "the public" puts in keys at about the rate of 1 every 3 minutes for a month now ?
jurov: yes, going to prep the csv for download
mircea_popescu: we absoluely gotta get those ssh keys in there. jurov you actually working on it ?
mircea_popescu: there's no way to check for this "multiplicity", it's essentially brainwallets-for-computers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, random guy on reddit points out to a very lulzy attack indeed. consider : you boot up 1k VMs running the same os, and upon boot-up you sshgen. how many keys share primes even if they are properly generated ?
BingoBoingo: They do guided tours
BingoBoingo: Anyways best thing in CHicago isn't even in Chicago. Go down to Joilet and tour the old prison.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Observe the fauna
BingoBoingo: You could always just take the El to random southside neighborhoods or play "James Lafond Presents"
BingoBoingo: Nah reactor was on University of Chicago campus, library where the stadium was
BingoBoingo: Oh then you could try to go see the site of that reator they built under the sportsball bleachers
asciilifeform: lel why would they let me in
mircea_popescu: anabasis being the one true marathon. yes, good point, i shoulda said that.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: thanks, appreciate it. but damn does it depress me a bit, then
mircea_popescu: for comparison, http://trilema.com/2016/files-from-the-war-on-the-web-today-pbnation/ yielded > 500 email responses. clicks not so countable.
BingoBoingo: The riverwalk.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that you don't sit around to sniff the anthill, but merely care how tall it is.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I ended up going cordless because I wanted the battery.
mircea_popescu: strictly a matter of numbers, any 800 vote / 300 comment thread is exactly equal to any other.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll have to disabuse you of the notion that "the content" ie "what it says" matters in that context.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469286 << BingoBoingo will be delighted to learn that when my father was a boy, his father bought a petrol-powered refrigerator.
asciilifeform: if you 'sort by new' you will see that it ends with 'warning!11111 they faked it all'
asciilifeform: yeah this was the main thread
mircea_popescu: govt "borrows" in europe, pours the cash into subsidies, defaults ; borrows more.
mircea_popescu: well of course they do ?
BingoBoingo: In other lulz http://qntra.net/2016/05/monsanto-embargoes-argentina-from-getting-dicamba-resistant-soybeans/#comment-59107
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> hard enough that bush's idiots couldn't do it unless the thing beaconed. << /me remembers that lulz
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: i want to write something like this, but dread the fact that i would have to review a shitton of shitty attempts. one approach, i guess, is to just dismiss those attempts, come up with a sane and straightforward design, and implementing without too much fuss...
mircea_popescu: it's worth a lulz tho. they have to catch bbc or else it may be the case they should fire.
mircea_popescu: the us is moving towards it, not away.
asciilifeform: (in the uk-sub-leak thing)
mircea_popescu: fun factoid : the (only!) uk sub actually has a... mile long aerial in tow.
mircea_popescu: anyway. this whole thing... children threatening with holding their breath.
asciilifeform: at one point it was sop to use separating bus in the cone but supposedly now 'banned under treaty'
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, that's where the pain starts : it'd be a wonder if the whole nato fleet can launch a coupla dozen simultaneous.
asciilifeform: but dummy barrel has same thermals as genuine nuke.
mircea_popescu: has none of the mitigation of "invisible" aircraft
mircea_popescu: and for that matter - a nuke IS a fucking beacon. thermally even!
mircea_popescu: it's quite certain who the rogue state is today.
mircea_popescu: i'm not particularly interested in defending the us from imaginary attacks
asciilifeform: hard enough that bush's idiots couldn't do it unless the thing beaconed.
mircea_popescu: point remains, the item is in the air for half an hour, during which it is a larger source than anything in the sky in about a third of the spectrum. it weighs a hundred fucking tons, and is about as maneuvrable as a dead whale.
mircea_popescu: and whole shebang is made of fucking epoxy, if you can imagine that. all the structural integrity and shielding of chewing gum.
asciilifeform: hence the usg obsession with chemical lasers, etc.
mircea_popescu: yaya. the mechanics of the thing are against them. you have a very visible (really, in the right spectrum it blots out the sun), slow moving large object. doing what.
mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised if they can usefully launch anything by this point.
asciilifeform: the subs work.
mircea_popescu is kinda amused at all the "oh noes, nuclear war destroys planet as we know it". go for it boys, really.
mircea_popescu: easier to explain to the peons why they can't have chocolate this week if there's an "all out total war" going
mircea_popescu: https://www.sott.net/article/318360-Russia-holding-the-line-to-prevent-total-global-war << re the missile shield thing
mircea_popescu: it's gonna be funny as we age, and all sorts of infantile derps are the #78589 satoshi
asciilifeform: $rupturefarms was one of the places where usg bought 'algorithmic vulns'
asciilifeform: well i already did the job. right here, for phreeeeee.... it isn't as if hitler doesn't read the l0gz
mircea_popescu: you want the job ? :D
asciilifeform: i've wondered often who precisely they paid, and how much, to set up even a basic 'first 6mo of trb'-level framework for them of understanding how the shitsoup even worx
mircea_popescu: coming right next after the official usg libertard ideologue steps in here to prove to me how wrong i am about things and matters.
mircea_popescu: look, you're theoretically arguing about things in such a vague distant approach it's not worth the skinning.
asciilifeform: literate folx are every bit as whore as the imbeciles, merely cost moar
asciilifeform: say, whatever dipshit wrote the earlier linked thing
mircea_popescu: ironically i fucking warned the idiots when they fired the hearn toothpick. but, too dumb to figure it out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how the fuck are you going to generate "Aditional gavins" roflmao.
mod6: to put out the blow torch
asciilifeform: none of them adding up to ~anything
asciilifeform: he knows that the noose is waiting
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 00:25 mircea_popescu: they had plans, none of which worked, their cost basis keeps exploding, which is not nice,
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469135 << explain this. i dun see how the cost of generating additional gavins is any higher now than in 2012
asciilifeform: i can picture black 'sectera' phone ringing on hitler's desk, 'ft meade, we need moar time, secp256k1 is still standing' 'lose the other division, or LOSE YERSELF!1211111'
mircea_popescu: they had gavin and all it took was a trilema post to turn him from st peter to a sort of dan quayle. it's not the sort of thing the grunts like to face.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ants perhaps desire a stalingrad.
mircea_popescu: anyway, asciilifeform, morale at the ant farm is exceptionally low.
mircea_popescu: shinohai eth is the backup plan, turns out. lulzy shit.
shinohai: Coinbase is rebranding their exchange as well -added ETH like all the other hippies lately.
mircea_popescu: they started late, and suck at everything.
asciilifeform: and other tiltatrons
asciilifeform: possibly the intel cluster will be brought up;
mircea_popescu: the options keep narrowing until it's either rage or quit. because obviously the correct and naturally-imposed solution of submit and humbly suck mp's cock is for some incomprehensible reason not on their plate.
mircea_popescu: recall, the usg & friends, as well as any and all other wanna-be, pretended or otherwise power centers have been regularly humiliated.
mircea_popescu: the chinese are in a similar position mutatis mutandis etc.
mircea_popescu: they had plans, none of which worked, their cost basis keeps exploding, which is not nice,
mircea_popescu: basically, tmsr has been extremely effectual at murdering usg assets and crippling usg influence in bitcoin, this doth not sit well with them ;
asciilifeform: in mircea_popescu's picture, is it simply that the termites have gnawed long enough at the support columns ?
asciilifeform: [various derpage re july halving] << can somebody explain why this halving is supposed to be a mega-apocalypse vs the LAST HALVING ??
asciilifeform: 'Even though core says they are ok with a hard fork to 2MB (they have it on their own roadmap, just very far in the future), they refuse to prioritize it. They prefer to withhold something that could help the network now...' << these folks never give up
asciilifeform: 'And if no perfect solution exists they seem ok with inaction, even if that puts bitcoin at risk.' << gold.
asciilifeform: these won't run out any time soon
shinohai: https://medium.com/the-coinbase-blog/what-happened-at-the-satoshi-roundtable-6c11a10d8cdf#.o9at5lmmf <<< ok guise classic failed so we're gonna try to scrounge up another set of devs "in the next month or two"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell copypaste btw the party's here --> #trilema
shinohai: "Whose a pain in the ass now bitch?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun see how he needs any further spray for any purpose, the substance's self-discrediting enough.
trinque: just whatever's passed to the search page as data
mircea_popescu: surrendering ? nah, ar is the future of usg.
hanbot had to double-take whether there was "unilever" printed over a local "pizzalomo" ad on a building the other day
asciilifeform: if they don't
BingoBoingo: For the branding
asciilifeform: at any rate, with people being idiots, i fully expect 'bring back $1 burgerz, motherfuckers' graffiti after monsanto dies
hanbot: <BingoBoingo> ^ Qntra Farm Report is back! Eat Moar Monsanto! << is there anti-monsanto graffiti in the us, btw? common theme here. also, "go home obama", from a few months ago.
PeterL: my sister-in-law started leaking after spending a day at the maternity ward when my daughter was born, she had weaned her kid about a year before that
a111: Logged on 2016-05-17 21:54 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-14#1466468 << important question that perhaps only mircea_popescu could answer: is there a 'background lactation' ?
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-17#1467867 << yes, nursing mothers commonly leak milk. There are adsorbent pads you can put under her bra to adsorb it.
PeterL: depends on other factors as well
mircea_popescu: either that or i don' tunderstand something.
mircea_popescu: whatever be the case. PeterL presumably has a very legitimate need for it, being in the business of organics. these schmucks making advanced clays however... not so much.
mircea_popescu: PeterL they use lots of it, and constantly bitch about how expensive it is to handle.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-19 17:42 mircea_popescu: come to think of it, the idea of using acetonitrile is very bizarre. much better polar solvents exist ; unless the remarkably high dielectric constant of the substance is useful.
asciilifeform: buckley was iirc the closest thing to organized sanity in his period/usa.
mircea_popescu: he read unspecified "central texts" and references some william buckley. who the fuck is william buckley ? turns out, a tv show host.
mircea_popescu: why do all these people put so much effort into creating some sort of label/brand/title for themselves anyway
asciilifeform: ^ mr mold gets the hanno boeck treatment
asciilifeform: in other slightly time-delayed lulz,
mircea_popescu: there's now and again cases when actual forces hostile to usg do the whole thing, but when genuine independent research occurs... well. this.
mircea_popescu: the sad truth underneath this all is, that the "computer [security] industry" has slowly became dependent on usg-sponsored burnings to the degree that unless weimer and co actually write all the stuff and put it out, they can't do it on their own, in any sort of timeframe.
asciilifeform: 'I find it very disturbing that there seems to be very little response from popular OS distributions to this issue. Most do not appear to have issued any package updates to close the shell exploit. Perhaps the opinion is that major new versions will be introduced as part of major distribution releases and it is ok for users to exposed to problems for two or three years.'
asciilifeform: in otherlulz,
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, re 'ic fab in kitchen',
asciilifeform: aha, story is in the l0gz
asciilifeform: there was robot, which i was reversing and writing soft for, but meanwhile actual work was done by gurlz
asciilifeform: where is the moterfuckign $s
asciilifeform: or they couldn't find monkeys willing to dmso
asciilifeform: whatever it was, the re-discoverers billed 200+m usd.
mircea_popescu: so the boron carbide with xenon filling aerogel production process involves electromagnetics and evaporation. SCIENCE!
mircea_popescu: o look at that... twice the boiling point. aww!
mircea_popescu: acetone, barely 20, also rather volatile if not as toxic.
mircea_popescu: note how they stand : thf, massively used, because relatively safe - million tons produced a year or such. yet, dielectric < 10
BingoBoingo: Or need that solvent to get the exact right contaminants fixed?
asciilifeform: for the foam-making
asciilifeform: you prolly need the polar aprotic aspect
asciilifeform: (aggressive solvent, a place where i used to wurk had massive tanks hooked to dna synthesizer, to clean the pipez)
mircea_popescu: unless, again, the dielectric is a major part of what "better" means.
asciilifeform: rather than in shipped product
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, the idea of using acetonitrile is very bizarre. much better polar solvents exist ; unless the remarkably high dielectric constant of the substance is useful.
asciilifeform: it was so that 'hey i have a tank column here and berlin is 50km away, i need moar neutrons and less thermal'
asciilifeform: rather than security measure
asciilifeform: incidentally, iirc the 'enter constants before launch' thing was originally 'dial-a-yield'
mircea_popescu: i guess the ustards imagines itself in the glorified position where all non-orcs are friendly.
asciilifeform: whole thing was intended as ~anti-theft~ measure, against 'indian who found the rifle on dead english'
mircea_popescu: tey said "wrong hands", they didn't fucking say "reddit's hands"
asciilifeform: 'decent physicist' who took the entire thing apart, measured the actual geometries of everything, incl. thickness of gold plating on the pu pit, etc
mircea_popescu: ie, decent physicist takes one look at list of possible outputs and picks the right one.
mircea_popescu: right, and im well persuaded the current item is just a glorified enigma machine
asciilifeform: originally there wasn't even a chip, just analogue knobs.
mircea_popescu: and then have a physics team to sort outputs in order of likelihood and a cs team to rebuild the chip from scratch.