mircea_popescu: "and if they don't ?" "uh."
mircea_popescu: what promotes the "voluntary cooperation" ?
asciilifeform: show me where 'the state must exist' in, e.g., kropotkin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or maybe mircea_popescu reads beyond what people like to pretend they're saying into what they're actually saying!
mircea_popescu: they're against the "repressive" ie, educational state. but otherwise, the state must be there for anarchy to exist.
mircea_popescu: whereas anomist = one who rejects the regulatory role of society.
mircea_popescu: (the "peace movement"/"modern democracy" flavour puts the political one first, and is the more fashionable today. communism puts the economical first, as per ziggler & co. used to be most fashionable)
mircea_popescu: anarchist === socialist, with the added flavouring of putting the rejection of hierarchy socially above economically, politically or otherwise.
mircea_popescu: re-reading durkeim it becomes obvious that a) omfg socialists everywhere, what the FUCK is it with this "we're all one" pov already! and b) being an anarchist is ~= being a bleating idiot ; what a man's supposed to be is an anomist.
Framedragger: (ah it seems zmap's saturated the 100mbps pipe quite efficiently. yeah will let you know re. cost, prob sooner than expected heh)
mircea_popescu: anyway, so if you spun up 1k aws micros the whole thing could be done in ~a day.
Framedragger: they'll start charging for bandwidth sooner or later
Framedragger: i'll let you know once some data is gathered
mircea_popescu: ah cool then
mircea_popescu: yeah but what's the bill
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: to get list of machines listening on port 22 using zmap on amazon aws micro instance with 100 mbps pipe, it takes approx 9-10 minutes per /16. note, only what's listening on port 22, but ssh-keyscan should then plough through pretty quickly. will later run more tests, i'll leave a single instance to scan some /16s to then feed into ssh-keyscan
mircea_popescu: "safeauto's do the jingle makes insurance advertising fun" ?
asciilifeform: in other not-quite-fresh-nyooz, https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jrApTQkrqY0/Vz8I5cEbM6I/AAAAAAAAeBI/RNtv0fXWF1EpXgL7KJL58KqSD_rtK1QiwCLcB/s1600/jingle.jpg
mircea_popescu: "here's the archive tool and here's the single url tool, i know, i'll use them backwards!"
mircea_popescu: who the fuck uses wget instead of curl anyway, you know ?
asciilifeform: the real mega-question is ~where~ this worx
asciilifeform: in other nyooz,
mircea_popescu: per the drunken walk model, once you're hitting sqrt(1) of references in cache you've read enough :D
Framedragger: by all means, keep reinforcing the "nothing outside the text" notion ! but yeah, good to revisit
mircea_popescu: ah ? well then.
mircea_popescu: lmao omfg. dude published the 2012 census with a pgp (v2.0!) 1kb rsa key ; and he claims to be inspired by... XKCD!!! to do a fucking hilbert curve. omfg the unit-square covering discussions were all in vain, xkcd is the source.
asciilifeform: there was a pretty sharp transition from, e.g., mccarthy to jwz
mircea_popescu: but there is no yesterday of computing!
mircea_popescu: part of the history of medicine, like it or not, mr progress.
Framedragger: 'the fucking witch deserved it'
asciilifeform: what next, 14th c let's-treat-the-wound-with-shit idiot is 'doctor' ?
Framedragger: well i did use "folks" which isn't a word from the most high register so to speak :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, they got a cert.
asciilifeform: in what universe does it make sense to regard the imbeciles as 'cs folks' ?
mircea_popescu: yes, alf bitching about this is in the logs :)
Framedragger: no but for real. thing is, cs folk usually haven't even read their own "definitive" texts (shannon, e.g.)
Framedragger: yeah i can't hold interesting convos with these cs people for long sometimes, it's like, fuck you humanity you suck
mircea_popescu: pretending to have a cs program that's all linguistics-free seems to me the height of ignoramity, but whatevs.
mircea_popescu: it's just that the majority of computer folk are uncouth and didn't read their linguistics and semiology.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger pretty much there already.
mircea_popescu: they're workin' on it.
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea either, as a plugin.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: this is in the old logz
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: related lulz, http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/5/19/11716818/google-alphago-hardware-asic-chip-tensor-processor-unit-machine-learning << go asic
mircea_popescu: check it out asciilifeform , there's not even as many computers as there are people and they're already beating us in go :D
Framedragger: "With [... some custom] changes, ZMap can comprehensively scan for a single TCP port across the entire public IPv4 address space [on a 10Gbps pipe, looks like] in 4.5 minutes given adequate upstream bandwidth." https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/woot14/woot14-adrian.pdf - not bad
mircea_popescu: just to eval it. in general the zmap idea is right and proper.
Framedragger: nono, i just mean, i can just use that particular machine for dirty work, cause i can't use that ip for other purposes anyway, it's tainted
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know i don't understand, wtf aren't they making pastries this way! at first i thought that's dough on her tits for sure... but no, just paint ?
Framedragger: i'm considering running zmap on high-throughput server to quickly get all internet-connected machines in ipv4 space, and then feeding that into ssh-keyscan. may be more efficient. also need to get some disposable ip addresses or something, cause according to internet my coupla server IPs will soon be added to some shitlist
mircea_popescu: Framedragger how long did covering the /16 take ?
mircea_popescu: sure, sure. and why do i need to know how the gcc trick works.
mircea_popescu: in any case, even the proposition that somehow "use" is good while "enjoyment" bad, first to be supported off public tolerance, mandated ; latter to be punished stinks to high heavens of outright evil protestantism bullshit.
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mircea_popescu: there's soemthing wrong with longer lines i think
mircea_popescu: $google tits cunt fuck piss shit motherfucker cocksucker
mircea_popescu: in which we find aferation is not an english word. a well. it denotes one who appears to have a lot to do / be in the thick of things / busy, but really just pretending. a george costanza of sorts.
mircea_popescu: same fucking reason the poor guy goes : cuz he can't make sense of the world around him
mircea_popescu: because not intellectually up to the task of not following.
asciilifeform: why would a successful (in the financial own-legs sense) heresiarch 'go follow a master' ?
mircea_popescu: it's unpleasant to watch in a context where the others say anything but "hey, you're having these problems because you're an uppity ronin slave. how about you drop the aferations and go follow a master."
asciilifeform: where fella decides he 'believes' x,y,z but is not intellectually up to the task of systematizing
asciilifeform: there is this thing,
mircea_popescu: what is the difference between http://66.media.tumblr.com/c407c30b01293c9ff352c63a7b5bddf5/tumblr_n4yj3752Wj1s8fyi8o1_1280.jpg (dressed for appreciation) and http://67.media.tumblr.com/566f03f4f3eedef6a9b03decd8443885/tumblr_n2cb74nquJ1solxm8o1_400.gif (practical use) ?
asciilifeform: 'Printer patterns to make a useful, practical object (i.e., functional rather than decorative) must be free because they are works made for practical use. '
asciilifeform: wai wut where is the 'practical use' line from
mircea_popescu: motherfucker...
mircea_popescu: does a conference a week since 1995, hasn't yet explained the difference between things "not meant for practical use" and the rest. wtf is impractical use.
mircea_popescu: anyway - same with music, because "it's not meant for use, but for appreciation". it's a fucking lasagna, what the fuck does this man actually believe ?
asciilifeform: and generally one had to swallow what was on the plate.
mircea_popescu: why not just you know, review thew priors. LIKE SANE FUCKING PEOPLE.
asciilifeform: folks who paint themselves into a logical corner tend to do this.
mircea_popescu: they always puzzled me, these inconsistent derps. jimbo wales thinks he's a "libertarian", and "objectivist". one that somehow thinks corporate spying is bad, but "the government should put as many cameras up as possible - they'd prevent crimes".
asciilifeform: and i think i frothed about it here even.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, you ever made any sense of the rms notion that "free hardware" is nothing like "free software" ?
mircea_popescu: yeah well, i'm not THAT curious about them.
mircea_popescu: im not atm persuaded they exist more than "bfl delivery" existed back in the bitbet bet days.
mircea_popescu: no i meant the modern ones.
asciilifeform: well they only made, iirc, 200 'elbrus-2' (which were cray-2 sized and shaped)
mircea_popescu: you know still couldn't locate any of them things...
asciilifeform: (linked primarily for the console photo)
asciilifeform: in other 'nyooz', guess who ~doesn't~ run winblowz: https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/valdai-club-3-touring-the-don-2n-radar-facility
asciilifeform: i can picture the symptoms though.
asciilifeform: (other than by pwning him personally)
mircea_popescu: actually there might have been a coupla more publicly known of people with compromised keys
asciilifeform: did the banned fella kick up a stink ?
mircea_popescu: hm, no, actually there was a derp that managed to exploit some timing issue early on.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu tellin' me that kako betrayed ze motherland ?!
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 21:56 mircea_popescu: then in the unwarranted assumption that mp actually needs the piddly 1k btc held for bitbet, they tried to use whatever loose assemblage of assets to force mp to recant de facto. which idem backfired spectacularly when mp not only failed to recant as intended, but pissed with a large arch on the whole proposition, and cut out with hot irons anything that may even remotely resemble.
mircea_popescu: and hate dun enter into it. derp's been making outright false, marginally false and otherwise tendentious statements since just about the day it became clear the oh-so-genius plan won't catch. i see no merit in it and reason to entertain them.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469949 << that part was handled by davout ; i'm pretty sure he got his half from him ; in any case davour charged it against me in the final settlement, and i dun expect he didn't remit it.
asciilifeform: and apparently we can infer that mircea_popescu hates kako more than he hates the dpr confiscators.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i'm not in the business of demanding explanations from folks, but i do make inferences.
asciilifeform: stalin, on the contrary, had pretty good explanations.
jurov: you just mentioned stalin on other chan, now imagine yourself demanding explanation from stalin :D
mircea_popescu: how exactly are you going to come to any sort of sensible conclusions on the basis of the random derpage of some dude who's principally known for random derpage ?
asciilifeform: why not dekulakize them ?
asciilifeform: iirc in the l0gz we learned that even straight usg has mpex account(s), and parked coin stolen from its prisoners (e.g., dpr) there.
mircea_popescu: litte news reaches us from the distant fogs of mpex. but sure.
asciilifeform: i can't speak for others, but a fella being drummed out of mpex with dekulakization is a newsworthy thing imho.
asciilifeform: so possibly then
mircea_popescu: it definitely helps the gullet yeah.
kakobrekla: first the pretending and now you plain stealing - way to go!
mircea_popescu: but gotta appreciate the sheer cheek, in any case.
kakobrekla: the p/l has no relevance to your embezzlement of funds tied to my key.
mircea_popescu: for the record : during the duration of that account, you deposited 20.02 btc, and withdrew : 670.37 btc. "your" btc is a misnomer at best.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you were banned from mpex subsequent your last doomed attempt to fuck up the bitbet process on davout's blog.
mircea_popescu: then in the unwarranted assumption that mp actually needs the piddly 1k btc held for bitbet, they tried to use whatever loose assemblage of assets to force mp to recant de facto. which idem backfired spectacularly when mp not only failed to recant as intended, but pissed with a large arch on the whole proposition, and cut out with hot irons anything that may even remotely resemble.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look at the events. in the unwarranted assumption that mp will be impressed with a show of miner strength, they proceeded to mess with bitbet payments. this backfired spectacularly when mp was not only not impressed, but actually went public with it, live.
kakobrekla: hi. my mpex account has been inaccessible roughly since the time of the final bbet settlement - a bug or a feature?
asciilifeform: i dun think they've tried outright bribery yet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that was state of the art in 2015 tho, check teh dates.
a111: Logged on 2015-12-20 00:13 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1348050 << you know what's great? rat poison STILL WORKS even if you don't explain to the rats exactly ~how~ !
trinque: they should get that Tor chick this time
trinque: must be disheartening; they put so much work into the last one's sweet steampunk goggles and MIT stamp of chief scientism
asciilifeform: old one was long in the tooth.
asciilifeform: have patience, they're making a new one
shinohai: Gavin has been rather quite for a few days.
asciilifeform: ^ from the 'quora' thing.
asciilifeform: block size, instead committing the space to expressing his dislike for Gavin, the Bitcoin foundation...'
asciilifeform: 'Gavin will "win" because most people won't even realize there was a debate, let alone a "war". Gavin has the network alert key, so when he says "please upgrade to avoid being left on a fork", most people will upgrade. Hard to get away from that. Mircea Popescu isn't likely to persuade anyone that he's right because in all of the three blog posts on this subject I found, nowhere does he bother to explain why he's opposed to a larger
shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDao/comments/4k6kbm/dao_20_as_the_first_proposal_to_get_funding/ Let's build version 2.0 of a buggy moneypit! :D
mircea_popescu: and in other news, damn soup is a wonderful invention.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-20 18:38 mircea_popescu: incidentally danielpbarron mind showing the i'll pay for tits thing to https://twitter.com/aella_girl thx
dignork: Thanks BingoBoingo glad to see you guys, but I'm just lurking after a long time out, haven't read the logs yet.
mircea_popescu: the problem is they didn't have intelligent people at the top. this generally haunts.
asciilifeform: yeah they have
asciilifeform: at one point asciilifeform attempted to contribute to pediwikia, even. was quickly cured of the notion that this was a worthwhile use of time.
asciilifeform: all wotless soup goes the same way.
mircea_popescu: basically, it worked as an unpaid effort to digitize books that's meanwhile run out of both books to digitize and wide-eyed excitable noobs to do the digitizing.
mircea_popescu: if you have the curiosity to check it out, the parts of any artiocle that you like are 5yo+ ; and stuff added the current year's never up to par.
mircea_popescu: and what's worse, the "wiki" style is proven not to work. even something originally as promising as tvtropes has over the years decayed into this unfunny collection of tiresome goop.
asciilifeform: when the only thing to cut is skull, for ashtray
mircea_popescu: there is.
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as a corpse.
mircea_popescu: in the parts where it actually does something, what it does is collect derpy dribbles on irrelevant topics. yeah, it's the first place to have a discussion of the nth episode of the mth reboot of some tired us franchise.
mircea_popescu: the other thing is that wikipedia has ~no utility. in the parts that it outright copied actual encyclopedia is no better and no different from any random website out there that repackages other's content.
BingoBoingo: Kinda the Libressl problem. Thing needs cutting, but it also need oh so much cutting.
mircea_popescu: it'd be interesting as a wikipedia-conversion-to-sanity project, but it'd be predicated on the project ditching all the undesirables barnacled to it. and seeing that the whole thing is mostly barnacle by mass, i dun see it happening.
hanbot: Maybe you should pay their server bills so they don't have to "not advertise" their begging campaign every quarter.
hanbot: Pity they don't have a bio article.
hanbot: mircea_popescu, https://www.quora.com/Who-will-win-the-Bitcoin-blocksize-war << check out top answer.
mats: and the pile of varying ipc mechanisms in addition to raw mach ports is p interesting
asciilifeform: not first time, either.
asciilifeform: i'm building ?????? for motherfucking microshit.
mats: lotsa cruft there.
trinque: one cannot simply pick the best things available; why would they all already work together?
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: shithouse has a certain...aesthetic.
Framedragger: i like the /* yolo: */ in the source, where it specifies the font right there in the source, because fuck it
mircea_popescu: if it makes you feel better, my parents were about your age when they were blessed with the wonder that is i.
ben_vulpes: ergo find new friends who are also doing the same.
ben_vulpes: i am possibly the youngest hipster /deciding/ to have children. this means that none of the other hipsters want to be friends any more, because what sane person with hobbies etc hangs out with married and children.
mircea_popescu: incidentally danielpbarron mind showing the i'll pay for tits thing to https://twitter.com/aella_girl thx
ben_vulpes: she is childproofing and driving the kibbutz incubation project quite nicely thank you very much
ben_vulpes: and /i/ soaked the scale
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: no /i/ spilled the coffe
mircea_popescu: Framedragger was mostly confirming your assumption. yes, if the motherfucker goes to indochina i want a nigger there hiding in a bowl of rice ready to suck its pubkey down.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: well. i guess the spider could could include a ipv6 address crawler to populate a ipv6 address list. but beyond that?
Framedragger: and visits http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ more often than should admit
mircea_popescu: Framedragger just make sure you add the ip to your comment.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-20#1469732 << because i am not a wwwtronicist. the thing does not intelligently generate the web crapolade from the db in any way, it manually and agonizingly 'if phuctored then display this-here colours' etc.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger many thousands read teh logs ; not everyone speaks, or directly. the republic shades a much larger area than meets teh eye. nothing wrong with that either.
mircea_popescu: honestly asciilifeform i'd much rather if phuctor held a table consisting of e,N,comment,pgp_crud1,pgp_crud2,etc. should be indexed by hash of first three fields. should not depend on the trailing fields existing
jurov: okay. the ssh format is blessedly simple, not much to convert
mircea_popescu: ah. and you were calling this later "convertor" ? whereas i was calling the former.
mircea_popescu: ok im well confused. so jurov : you have a thing that takes ssh keys, spits them out as e,N,comment lines in a csv. that right ?
jurov: but we can't have selfsigs, only the key
mircea_popescu: 2) process the results on some sort of periodicity (daily ?) with jurov's soon to be published convertor
jurov: https://www.shodan.io/search?query=ssh there's also this, but access to raw data is prolly paid
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the task is 1) create a spider that connects to all servers/routers/anything that takes a ssh connection, and asks for key. there's an example given in the logs coupla weeks ago that prolly can be taken verbatim and improved as needed.
mircea_popescu: principally in the form of "keys aren't pgp format, but tmsr format, of which ssh, pgp and others are idiotic restatements"
mircea_popescu: that may be ; but the problem here is that politically, we do not wish to recognize rsa is owned by pgp.
asciilifeform: the thing is pretty solidly congealed around pgp.
asciilifeform: 2) hash of moduli AS THEY APPEAR IN PGP FORMAT
mircea_popescu: so far i'm trying to understand what specifically the db is like.
asciilifeform: no it is also a pgp key turd, that is re-parsable to obtain all of these
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes. but when a key is phuctored, it expects to find the fields associated with a pgp key in the requisite db table.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo jesus wtf is wrong with these imbeciles.
mircea_popescu: jurov can you publish the convertor you used somewhere for later reference ? like your blog or w/e ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "punkman" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
mircea_popescu: so there were three : get the github keys - jurov did it ; get the ssh server/router spidering going, and convert. iirc nobody was doing this ; get pgp keys out of the gwen / sr dump. punkman was hm where is he.
asciilifeform: not the least.
asciilifeform: wai these are converted already ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well they did send children on a crusade once...
Framedragger: parliament, say, is often referred to by durniĊ³ laivas, as well as the whole country, its populace, etc; same with "kaimas" being used interchangeably with populace
mircea_popescu: they get tiresome.
mircea_popescu: alrighty, so it's basically a durnish laivas that thinks itself the capital [of the world].
Framedragger: can't think of a specific word - there's a notion "idiots' ship" - durniĊ³ laivas - and also: the whole word "village" (kaimas) has very clear connotations of idiocy, in and of itself, and is used thusly sometimes
mircea_popescu: what's the idiot village called in lithuanian folklore ?
mircea_popescu: the place is great for the first months. then the idiocy of the population starts to wear you down.
Framedragger: on buenos aires: http://trilema.com/2014/manufactured-insecurity-and-the-issue-of-control/
Framedragger: didn't you say something to the tune of "i'd like to die here" :)
Framedragger: it's nice to hear that argentina is a livable place, then. i enjoyed the pix on trilema fwiw
mircea_popescu: warwick castle was epic, but finding something you'd stick your penis into was ~impossible. i was stuck with imports the whole time.
Framedragger: yeah there are friendly people here, with brains etc. weather is shit obvs., and i admit it affects me. hence travels to morocco and suchlike
mircea_popescu: anyway - yeah i suppose locals are fugly, but then again glasgow gets a lot of foreign students/tourists.
Framedragger: oh yeah, the "bbc = world goes on thing" l0l
mircea_popescu: the uk nearly lost it's only submarine base ; where the only nuclear-bbc-radio-listener is based.
Framedragger: (lots of the latter here, incidnetally)
mircea_popescu: weren't they nigh on separated last time ?
Framedragger: yeah they are!
Framedragger: it is, it is. so what you're saying is that scotland is not part of the uk. if only
mircea_popescu: of course, it's entirely meaningless ; argentines never act on what they or anyone else says.
mircea_popescu: you'd love argentina then. ALL they do is stop and chat in the streets ; half hour at a time, people who don't know each other.
Framedragger: it's too cold, folks don't talk much in streets, though you can bump into an old guy who invites you to chess for a beer (and by god he needs that beer), he does well, you're in a very cheap shitty bar and you realize it's now closed and the bar is serving vodka to the regulars who're now around you, sometimes succeeding in discussing something interesting
Framedragger: yes. unless you mean "the club" (not venue), then i'm not sure, but there are people's circles which seem to function well, yes. i've been out of the country for some time and am generally not in loop
Framedragger: high cost of living, cf. other european countries, whereas avg wage is maybe just over 500eur / mo? hence whole country is grumpy
Framedragger: lithuania, of all the places.
Framedragger: (incidentally, fuck marrakech. the whole country's full of tourists, but marrakech doubly so. fes is where it's at!!1)
mircea_popescu: the solution is to behead the caliph and put the town under proper administration, not to shop around for "water" merchants. wtf are they going to sell you, they all draw from the same all-purpose pond.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing substantially wrong with freenode. they're a merchant of faeces infested water, as good as any other merchant of "water" in marakesh.
Framedragger: misinterpreted question. "what does it buy". yeah, the nice feeling inside, so, zero, i suppose