asciilifeform: 'The idea behind the original Hashimoto is to use the blockchain as a dataset, performing a computation which selects N indices from the blockchain, gathers the transactions at those indices, performs an XOR of this data, and returns the hash of the result.' << sounds like braindamaged version of mircea_popescu's algo
asciilifeform: https://web.archive.org/web/20160317002641/http://vitalik.ca/ethereum/dagger.html << appears
asciilifeform: http://vitalik.ca/ethereum/dagger.html << lol 404
asciilifeform: anyway i've only recently grudgingly swallowed hypothesis that ORIGINAL btc pow isn't kleptographic.
asciilifeform: it leverages what they have. (seats on standards committees, stooges in open sores, etc.)
asciilifeform: (and countless others.)
asciilifeform: e.g., the dual_ec_drbg incident.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that double-trapdoors interest you
asciilifeform: if the ramp ever reaches 1P, we now know how.
asciilifeform: if it existed, why would they stop at faking 50T
mircea_popescu: i am actually suspecting something like this exists in ethereum, but meh, not worth the chase atm.
asciilifeform: (if there isn't a whole directorate at nsa concerning solely this, they are truly for the dogs)
asciilifeform: (lets you simulate titanic hashrate with barely any effort, if you know the boojum)
asciilifeform predicted that a use would be found for them.
thestringpuller: oh yea. they want to use proof of stake
asciilifeform: hey hey ho ho THAT's where the fpga farms went.
mircea_popescu: anyway, they use some shit supposedly memory hard, whatever.
asciilifeform: if it doesn't, where did they get 50TH of it...
asciilifeform: nope, every month they sell new variant.
asciilifeform: there are 100+ wholly incompatible chipsets.
asciilifeform: then you need, say, 5-10mil.
asciilifeform: there are no working gpu bots!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the top article contains comment saying guy got 17mh on one core out of 5 on modest card.
mircea_popescu: understand : ethereum pretends to be 1/10 of btc financially, while it is 1/10`000`000 hash-wise and outright 1/infinity technologically.
asciilifeform: there is not nor have ever been a working gpu bot.
deedbot: https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/guides/how-to-mine-ethereum/ << How to mine Ethereum on a Windows PC? - Mining Tutorial ... | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKtwSH6inBs << How to Mine Ethereum on a Windows PC -- 6 Steps - YouTube | http://cryptomining-blog.com/5323-quick-guide-on-how-to-mine-ethereum-on-windows/ << Quick Guide on How to Mine Ethereum on Windows - Crypto Mining ...
mircea_popescu: $google "how to mine ethereum on a windows pc"
mircea_popescu: it's almost like the seeds of disaster are by now epigenetic, the population carries them like the swine carry ascari lumbricoides.
mircea_popescu: how the ever living fuck, they're not smart enough ?! they're not educated enough, not experienced enough,
mircea_popescu: and again, the thing that fascinated me in http://trilema.com/2016/the-life-and-times-of-one-phil-daian-aspiring-nigger-apprentice-cocksucker/ (ie, how marginally inept cs derp behaves as fully fledged us-style "journalist" without specific training) fascinates me again : these derps rebuild the pentagon.
mircea_popescu: but hey, they'll "fix it".
asciilifeform: of course this only works if the 51 is made from solid shitanium, rather than fragmentable (with incentives to defect) cartel
asciilifeform: aha, race is to the swift, yeah.
asciilifeform: i suppose this depends on 'how soft' is the soft fork (are miners merely rejecting 'tainted' tx, or also deliberately orphaning any block which contains one ?)
mircea_popescu: eventually, i own the chain.
mircea_popescu: let's follow this. so i mine the next block. 49% guy mines the 2nd. i build on mine.
asciilifeform: (which theoretically could be done for a few btc if you were willing to wait a year)
asciilifeform: what i asked after was the rough equivalent of mining a high-S btc tx.
asciilifeform: unless there is something radically different re ethercrud vs btc, 51% only gives you doublespend
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i didn't say 'cost to 51%'. but to get arbitrary valid tx mined in the face of 'soft fork'
mircea_popescu: (it went up by about 4x since last year. hardware's the most expensive part of a scamcoin.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ethereum difficulty is, if memory serves, ~50TH. so about half that.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-23 14:30 Framedragger: (e.g. i agree with chomsky's "There is a notion of success ... which I think is novel in the history of science. It interprets success as approximating unanalyzed data." which does indeed suck.)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-23#1488111 << the guy's defense, notably, "yes it's collecting butterflies - there's nothing wrong with that" is actually tendentious. it's NOT collecting butterflies. yes, it COULD BE, but i don't see any of that happening. just a bunch of "we have butterflies in this black box, come hear about our weight loss ideas" typically ustarded marketing and "engineering"
asciilifeform: the beauty of actually standardized prog lang
asciilifeform: (perfectly possible to dev on one while deploying on other!)
phf: i find 1s eval delays unacceptable when i'm in the zone
phf: well, then you should continue working with it :)
asciilifeform: for what do we even need the interp?
phf: main thing sbcl did is improve build system at the expense of some of the subsystems (an interpret mainly)
asciilifeform: (i have nfi - was there money involved ?)
phf: well, tradeoffs that sbcl made are more in line with modern practices, so there was a transition from old and stodgy cmucl to new and shiny sbcl
asciilifeform: kinda how i boot up that cute x86 systemv and then notice that it is PALPABLY slow on modern pentium because it lacks ANY disk cache etc.
phf: well, native threads were added to sbcl at the expense of good gc
asciilifeform: it is the mature end
asciilifeform: that's the point here
phf: you only say that because you think sbcl is somehow "clean". chrodes managed a very neat hack, a build system improvement, that's where neat hacks have ended, and modernization began, but it's not like the legacy cmucl codebase somehow disappeared from sbcl
asciilifeform: naggum had a great piece on these:
asciilifeform: cl-http is the mega-classic (by the nsa bloke who bought symbolics !! iirc) but it had a very strange license which prohibited just about any practical use, and so did not catch on
phf: i'd rather not answer, since i'll be mocked incessantly by mr asciilifeform for it
mats: have there been any other 1k+ btc 'coin destruction' events like the one orchestrated by counterparty?
asciilifeform: http://bitcoinocracy.com/arguments/in-the-event-of-a-fork-i-will-sell-rbf-blockstream-core-coins-and-buy-classic-bitcoins << other examples of 'consensooooos washing'
asciilifeform: the peter todd turd is a true classic of its genre: 'we gotta commit an atrocity. but we first will get CONSENSOOOS!!1111 so then it won't be an atrocity, fuckyou. and btw we control the vertical and the horizontal and all the votez, so fuckyou.x2'
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu what would it cost to have the magic eth tx mined ?
asciilifeform: kes the co-operation of two or three people to achieve the majority of hashing power necessary to freeze funds' << lel
asciilifeform: 'I’ve heard reports that the first part of Vitalik’s fork proposal has already happened: miners have frozen the funds taken from the DAO with a soft-fork, which means that miners are blacklisting any transaction that moves those funds, as well as refusing to mine on top of blocks containing transactions moving those funds. That’s not very hard to do as - like Bitcoin - Ethereum mining is sufficiently centralized that it only ta
shinohai: https://petertodd.org/2016/ethereum-dao-bailout-vote <<< "Democracy is the only way people!"
trinque: https://twitter.com/bitfinex/status/746023060122275840 << maybe changed / fucked up their API
asciilifeform: (the dope is for when you need minister of finance whateverthefuck to start spewing rubbish on camera, or jump from his window with only mild assistance, etc)
asciilifeform: trinque: the latter worked, since at least hammurabi.
trinque: G4S has previously been accused of improperly vetting its employees. In 2009, Danny Fitzsimons, a former British paratrooper and employee of a G4S subsidiary, killed two colleagues in Iraq, claiming to be “the antichrist” and saying he “must satisfy” his “bloodlust.” << wouldn't blow my mind that $lizardhitler has a drug that induces this
trinque: https://theintercept.com/2016/06/14/orlando-shooter-wasnt-the-first-murderer-employed-by-global-mercenary-firm/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: they wouldn't ever send 1 bloke.
asciilifeform: i can easily see the idiot signing up to 'fire some blanks, scare some folk'
trinque: if they are mercs, it leans me more tinfoil-hat than you've expressed, even..
asciilifeform: (rather than 'academe' etc.)
asciilifeform: speaking here of ordinary, unremarkable security co., as in the kind who drive cash wagons etc.
asciilifeform: btw recall the hollywood shootout (same one as in mircea_popescu's article) ?
asciilifeform: mr snackbar's ? or the batman one
asciilifeform: the 'batman' incident
trinque: certainly both he and the cops shot people
mircea_popescu: well, the guy who was playing counterstrike and had fambly killed certainly scored 0 personally.
asciilifeform: cheaper still considering that usg will pin ALL of the corpses on mr snackbar.
mircea_popescu: they cost. lots. bystanders - cheaper.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is judicious. all described in the http://trilema.com/2015/strategy-for-the-antisocial-struggle/
asciilifeform: as it was, they picked grenades over chancing mr snackbar's bullet.
asciilifeform: they would happily dynamite the entire building if they could plausibly dress it up as 'perp did it'
asciilifeform: anyway the police are useful idiots in this play.
mircea_popescu: wait, the QUEERS are on high alert ?
asciilifeform: http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/outward/2016/06/15/after_orlando_s_pulse_massacre_queer_nightlife_workers_are_on_high_alert/539630790-agents-investigate-the-damaged-rear-wall-of-the-pulse.jpg << bigger pic.
mircea_popescu: (but yes, this is at least 50% of why girl has to wear heels and be tall to begin with. 50% of the rest is the leyla black. and other such things)
mircea_popescu: room has drawbacks. toilets - easy to clean. the shag gets dubious while the tile stays... white. ish.
trinque: though the room would be more convenient
mircea_popescu: srsly, you people never fuck "on the first date" girl you met at disco ?
asciilifeform: (the practice dates to at least turing's time, there is a monument near the toilet he used)
asciilifeform: where, apparently, they customarily fuck
asciilifeform: the published floor plan showed whole bar having GIGANTIC public toilet in the back half
mircea_popescu: trinque looks like a shitth broom by the piping
asciilifeform: in single-file, with mr snackbar at the lead ?
asciilifeform: storage room from which all of the survivers emerged ?
asciilifeform: and Only A Terrorist Would Ask (TM) (R) how one can blow 5+ grenade holes in a cement wall, clean through, without fragging any of the hundreds of schmucks hiding behind it
mircea_popescu: and who are the pink shirt faggots ? police ?
mircea_popescu: the mega dent up right of hole came from, likely, a howitzer.
mircea_popescu: but they're not randomly distributed! the 7 light marks on bottom clearly came from one burst.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: same tool. ever notice that even at the range, the holes in the paper have different shapes ? esp. at max distance ? the bullet - tumbles.
mircea_popescu: i guess it could be that the bottom came in at a very wide angle, which in iutself is kinda stupid, but the marks are too round for that.
asciilifeform: which is even lulzier than 'police blew hole then shot everything that moved'
asciilifeform: in order for mr. snackbar to make any of the pictured holes, he would have had to climb out, police - cheering him on from behind his back, while he fired back into the hole.
mircea_popescu: yeah but i mean compare those marks with the tank machine gun lookiung holes above
asciilifeform: Official Truth is that mr snackbar was inside. police dynamited hole, and - Officially - waited for ~him~, rather than victims, to emerge, then fired
mircea_popescu: (why by bozo ? because he fired 7 in a row and has miserable enough control of the gun that he swings left-right etc)
mircea_popescu: that can't be 9mm. really it can't be 38 either, looks like a 22
mircea_popescu: so the idea that the very much "machine gun fired by bozo" line on the bottom is... ricochet ? or wtf ?
asciilifeform: when they decided that nailing whole crowd was a-ok
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the orlando police carry h&k mp5
mircea_popescu: seems there's a peashooter and a .45 involved
a111: Logged on 2016-06-15 03:15 asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo https://pp.vk.me/c636216/v636216329/1018c/a3teM2ELOb8.jpg << supposedly, the hole blown by police at orlando postal. notice the police bullet marks.
asciilifeform: similar to the day care where 2 men in camo went in, machine gunned, left, leaving autistic tard in their place with empty rifle, then caught in the woods, 'questioned', let go.
asciilifeform: and then fired into ?
asciilifeform: incidentally rumours of a good chunk of the gay bar corpses having 9mm police holes in'em continue to circulate.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the whole thing is a "gun control" ie, make the us as "immigrant"-friendly as rotterham, uk. bullshit.
asciilifeform: the terrorists won.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the greatest country in the world, https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/why-many-people-talking-pic-185952778.html
mircea_popescu: so therefore... mooooot point.
asciilifeform: the cows sometimes - rarely - birth people. or they would still be living in trees, in strictly ecologically sustainable with bare hands sort of numbers.
asciilifeform: works in the strict biological sense.
mircea_popescu: (ftr, there's an entire subculture of these, on west coast. you can fill a 2 acre pool estate with them in bikinis, they'll swiggle around while the pot lasts.)
mircea_popescu: she seems rather chill and easy going neh ?
asciilifeform: ^ the example of opposite of what i was describing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you have the 'karla from california' article link handy ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a good bit of aptitude in, e.g., weight lifting, i suspect, is simply having a dull sense of the pain involved in effort
mircea_popescu: anyway. it's clear that "wanting to be" eg "writer" is how the aspie 14%, the worthless but ambitious, useful idiots are recruited
diana_coman: I really had no idea of what I wanted to be or even do; maybe what you mean is that people have basically some sort of personal ethics and they stick to them come what may
mircea_popescu: then again maybe that goes on while i sleep
asciilifeform: on the surface jwz also 'aren't'
mircea_popescu: well in the sense i don't want to be a woman
asciilifeform: and other monstrosities
diana_coman: I only had a very clear idea of what I do NOT want really; at least when presented with the thing
mircea_popescu: moreover, that makes the bearer wide open to all sorts of manipulation.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-23#1488354 << imho this is one of the things that distinguishes actual people from the cow folk - actual people have a concrete conception of ~wanting to be a specific thing~
a111: Logged on 2016-05-05 13:03 asciilifeform: the thermodynamic 'taboo against the coincidence' is described in, oddly enough, winnie pooh! '"Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.'
diana_coman: there, difference quite clear I'd say
diana_coman: them: why make a fuss? you'll get used to it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do we need the winnie pooh quote again
mircea_popescu: they only learn to regret going home to sleep alone after 2osomething
diana_coman: well, my first experience as an employee, while still studying: something goes wrong and I'm the only one to make a fuss about it
mircea_popescu: girl explained this to me as to the amorous life of teenagers. they don't want sex as much, she said, with its icky dirty scary reality, as they want the possibility of having it, which is endorphin ladden goodness.
asciilifeform: what was it, the 'maybe my REAL LIFE will start!111' thing
asciilifeform: there was even a spiffy mircea_popescu article re same
mircea_popescu: and in any case, the bias is from genetics. the genes you carry have their own little chess game going and you're the pawn. much like... well, everything else.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'under any circumstances' thing comes precisely from chump's illusion of 'maybe next year i escape'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the definition of the term "chump" is "he who will not eat nagant under any circumstances"
asciilifeform: the bias is from this ignorance.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-23 14:28 Framedragger: there was a post about statistical/ML approach vs. (one of) rule-based approach(es) just recently, i haven't read it yet, http://norvig.com/chomsky.html (inb4 ad hominem alf's norvig iz usg pawn :P )
mircea_popescu: incidentally re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-23#1488109 : his D is wrong. there's an unclear qty of statistics used by human brain.
thestringpuller: i love pulling the machine's strings.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it would have had to trigger full-blown ww3 on all sides to even compare roughly with the damage from microshit alone.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-23 15:10 asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is what i was trying to get across with the 'bad flying only kills a busful, bad program - potentially everyone' example
asciilifeform: all the cuttable 'shakespeares' got cut.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-23 15:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope, he'd be one of the 9,999 failed everettescus
a111: 5 results for "the feeling of power", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=the%20feeling%20of%20power
asciilifeform: $s the feeling of power
mircea_popescu: "i understand fridges. open the door!"
diana_coman: well, maybe understand its outputs, but not the actual code surely, what heresy is this
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wasn't using the term in your sense!
diana_coman: but why is anyone trying to understand it! they should just bang it into shape , not understand it ffs!!!
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is what i was trying to get across with the 'bad flying only kills a busful, bad program - potentially everyone' example
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you missed a spot, there's still some php garbage! i just run into some like yest
diana_coman: ahahah, the advantage of mircea_popescu's favourite approach: there will always be tons of garbage to clean off since a cake eaten is at least eaten, but crappy code is rarely totally obliterated
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope, he'd be one of the 9,999 failed everettescus
mircea_popescu: i suppose i might be the only intelligent male that never felt an inclination to off himself ? why's this so strange!
asciilifeform: the i have nfi
a111: Logged on 2016-06-11 01:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-10#1480685 << no, this is the problem. a bunch of idiots would have to earn bread different way ; and ben_vulpes would be allowed to do something less idiotic with his time. that's the problem whenever derps get the reins - they drive the ship ashore and someone's stuck fishing it back out.
asciilifeform: recall the ruby thread ?
mircea_popescu: this is somewhat offset by the grim reality that all people can possibly ever do is waste.
asciilifeform: yeah, but somebody has to do it. and you don't get the wasted people back.
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is in my professional judgement THE value proposition of free/open source. FORGET THE EATER!)
asciilifeform: precisely, the 'result before $time t at minimal cost' give you layers upon layers of braindamage.
asciilifeform: the illusion that 'live and learn, there is endless retakes' is an illusion, just that
mircea_popescu: (tbh, good programs and "results oriented" bs are rather orthogonal if not opposed concerns)
mircea_popescu: there is no eater.
asciilifeform: speaking of the eater.
mircea_popescu: you're not taking some of the salt out of the soup, some of the heat out of the steak or anything from anything else.
mircea_popescu: also, no cooking mistake is EVER reversible. cooking is the paragon of irreversible process with a thermodynamics-supplied seal of certitude.
asciilifeform: in that the mistakes are not guaranteed to be reversible.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why not ? if it fails to learn i just buy another computer.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-23 14:51 mircea_popescu: yes, it's broken, NOTICE it's broken, eat the scrambled egg, try again.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: bear the costs? or double-entendre intentional
mircea_popescu: hey, put koi to whatever equivalency in there while at it phf
mircea_popescu: diana_coman certainly not a cake. but it also has this passive "don't touch the instruments" educative value. womenz particularly vulnerable to this crap.
mircea_popescu: dude i have nfi, you keep saying this, then phfg comes on it turns out we do, then you say it again
diana_coman: that was not about helplessness though, but about the fact that a cake which is a cake only when you look at it from a certain angle, in a certain light, is NOT A CAKE
mircea_popescu: $s TheGreatSlowKings
a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 14:56 asciilifeform: http://www.lib.ru/ZELQZNY/TheGreatSlowKings.txt << for ze logz.
mircea_popescu: yes, it's broken, NOTICE it's broken, eat the scrambled egg, try again.
mircea_popescu: but to the more general point, Framedragger : the master's job is mostly to encourage and support the young woman TO ACTUALLY MAKE CHOICES. which is to say, exactly to distance herself from learned helplessness of the nature of diana_coman 's above mentioned " don't change anything or it might all fall down"
a111: 2 results for "http://lib.ru/ZELQZNY/TheGreatSlowKings.txt", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=http%3A%2F%2Flib.ru%2FZELQZNY%2FTheGreatSlowKings.txt
asciilifeform: so it ~is~ in the logz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform was it the space ? hm ?
Framedragger: i mean you do sometimes want case sensitivity yknow; i guess question's regarding the default
asciilifeform: can we ditch the case-sensitive bullshit plox ?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger no "peculiar" external info. obviously we're not dealing in spherical chickens here, so.. the sun lights all heads.
asciilifeform: IT IS IN THE FUCKING LOGS
asciilifeform: motherfucker
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the difficult bit is not merely in machine lasting millenium, but in the problem it is solving lasting anywhere near...
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: hmm; but you did supply her with some "aesthetics" feedback, maybe even a floating point value, as in, "better/worse than before", perhaps
mircea_popescu: but while i don't for a second suspect you of gender politics, nevertheless, there you go, you did it to them. what now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's fine, computer will outlast the millenium.
diana_coman: thing is: the results were atrocious really
mircea_popescu: once they mixed the genders they fucked it all up. THAT is why "stundent quality is on downspiral"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: optimization problem, where the solver already has very good approximate values for all the params.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman likely, which is the irony here. you can either have schooling for boys, or for girls.
Framedragger: girl internalizes environment which may include the beater who is giving her feedback, no?