Show Idle (> d.) Chans


| Results 204001 ... 204250 found in trilema for 'the' |

BingoBoingo: film requires careful reading and a bit of gas mask anytime the rat wizard Greenvald speaks
Framedragger: non sequitur as far as tor's use is concerned. he came out himself about him being the leaker. this breaks the anonymity.
asciilifeform: yes they are.
Framedragger: what the fuck does that mean, even. plenty of journalists reporting on actual shit use tor all the time
Framedragger: did you ever run a god damn tor browser? you prolly didnt because usg. it has banners and warnings all over. what else can one do. they're transparent about the bugs (incl upstream firefox) etc. not saying that i'd use tor for important things now.
asciilifeform: the folks who used ~any~ tor, with whatever other opsec, are now rotting in auschwitzes
BingoBoingo: re: useful idiots, marjuana doesn't always do the paranoia thing. See: Amir Taki and other trusting fellows
asciilifeform: which upgrades them to usg stoolies in my book.
asciilifeform: they - when tor fucked sr folks raw until their guts fell out - did no such thing.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: the only thing for useful idiots to do, to possibly reclaim some dignity, is to repent. publicly.
asciilifeform: no others.
Framedragger: sometimes, not all of the times
Framedragger: but to suggest that folk from within are in on it, as in usg agents whatnot, is bull. i know that in terms of effects there may not be much of a difference, but whenever you say "prolly controlled burn by those idiots", i want to smack you because those friends are not dumb at all.
asciilifeform: 'oh it was designed to fuck you, printed right on the box' ?
asciilifeform: we also know about the cmu operation.
asciilifeform: the charade is over.
asciilifeform: that all the folks who relied on tor are in american prisons now, is fucking evidence enough.
asciilifeform: the 'nothing material' is horseshit.
Framedragger: i have, and i've had back and forth with mp on his blog long ago, that conversation he likes to quote, but there is nothing material
Framedragger: reallly interesting and lulzy nonetheless
Framedragger: but really fucking rofl @ the cia guy
asciilifeform: it is plausible imho. the piece of shit thrashes, cries 'discrimination against veterans', spouts 'i was only following orders' rubbish, etc
asciilifeform: i have nfi re original src or authenticity.
deedbot: [Qntra] Tim Draper (WOT:nonperson) Still Loves Theranos, Picked Up An Ether Habit - http://qntra.net/2016/06/tim-draper-wotnonperson-still-loves-theranos-picked-up-an-ether-habit/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: it was the modern fucktards who shat on his original scheme.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-26 04:19 mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea how the people who dreamed up the hypertext failed to realise the value and importance of referencing SPECIFIC PORTIONS specifically,
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-26#1490656 << the ~log~ highlights always worked on my boxes, used no js
Framedragger: (if there was to be one more bot around these parts, i assume having a prefix char for it be "@" would be fine - i think it should be fine.. this can be changed of course)
mod6: sorry for the disruption. running fine, wanted to get the logging redirected as it should.
Framedragger: never read discourse on the method, does it take his circular "method" to the next level there? :p
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: heh. yeah, fuck the web, truly.
mircea_popescu: i guess their teachers never went "i think therefore i am", but always quoted "meditationes de prima philosophia by that guy looking like a frog ; somewhere in there"
mircea_popescu: but then again - here we are.
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea how the people who dreamed up the hypertext failed to realise the value and importance of referencing SPECIFIC PORTIONS specifically,
Framedragger: with irc logs it's easy as selection is rather 'discrete' (one line separate from another). in blog, it's a bunch of text, so more difficult
mircea_popescu: just, you have the advantage of implicit tokenization by line. text doesn't really have this.
mircea_popescu: i like the idea of avoiding js also.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i sorta like the idea of avoiding js here if only because that way backend actually gets to know what is select, and can do things about it (including being able to assign a label to that block, to be stored elsewhere (later)); those '#' anchors are not sent to server. buut arbitrary realtime selection is pretty neat, i'll check it later..
Framedragger: this thing - you can select a timestamp first time, it'll reload anchored and with from: set; then when you select another timestamp, it'll add to: to the url, resulting in a range with proper permalink'y url
Framedragger: also, did the "frontendy" part of irc log block highlights - e.g., "latest tits happening": http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160625/from:327/to:490#327 - i know this is obscure-ish and not important, but eh
Etherael: Hello, thanks for voice, I read your blog after the ethereum debacle, found it interesting, thought I would come here and listen for some time.
deedbot: Etherael voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: $up Etherael
Framedragger: some other stuff is written in lisp afaiui. but maybe deedbot rewritten in lisp since then?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 01:00 Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for gossipd without much effort at all
Framedragger: (hm, not the current deedbot at any rate)
Framedragger: does anyone know, is this the source of deedbot, or at least the origin? https://github.com/bitrecruiter/deedBot/blob/master/deedBot.php
mircea_popescu: yeah but they still have to drive THERE.
mircea_popescu: basically does all the work you normally have to drive a tractor for, which is what, a dozen passes a year.
mircea_popescu: it's just normal land, you build the pilar on it, acts as a turning point for this long arm
mircea_popescu: anyway, the idea is/was that rather than have tractor/combine drive to land etc, you just put pillar in middle, it does everything by spinning over the ground. you lose some land on the corners, but it's compensated by the massive savings on energy.
asciilifeform: it is the usual item
mircea_popescu: mmm then again that may be the usual item hm
mircea_popescu: the people are certainly very pleasant.
asciilifeform: and the whole 'favela' looks nicer than most of baltimore.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-25#1490575 << that '16th c spanish sewer' looks like storm ditch. we have them here.
asciilifeform: i entirely believe that it is physically possible. but where is it done? and who sells the robot
asciilifeform: i was asking after the apple harvester. but them also.
mircea_popescu: which device specifically, the cereal round thing ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-25 23:06 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform it's basically this crane that spins. the corners aren't cultivated, but the crane tends to the crop 100% << It's an irrigation scheme. Around here where rain is still counted upon no circles
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^ annnnd BingoBoingo chgeck out the fupa jesus.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like kirgiztan in the su.
mircea_popescu: the dark secret is that investment in your part of the world is a no-no
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform it's basically this crane that spins. the corners aren't cultivated, but the crane tends to the crop 100% << It's an irrigation scheme. Around here where rain is still counted upon no circles
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> o hey check out the pretty blondy. << yah cute
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima go visit the favela sluts for no reason other than taking asciilifeform 's pictures, honest, i swear. ima bbl, coupla hours ; hold any online hos down and occupied till i return!
mircea_popescu: whoever dies with the most collections wins.
shinohai: And mircea_popescu adds another to teh collection.
mircea_popescu: that's the transaction identifier. you should be 10 bitcents richer
mircea_popescu: tx d4d88240d9720fca299235f0ad112eb6955edcd25c3c03172100b1107a63ea4a << there you go.
Corsets: I can probably get a pic with the scars out of shot if you'd prefer
Corsets: Just the fun kind lol
mircea_popescu: o wait, corsets, fetish, you're also into bdsm therefore...
asciilifeform: wats with the hand ?!
mircea_popescu: an' seriously look into getting a pgp key an' join the crowd. lotta cool stuff going on here, most of which entirely unrelated to your chosen profession.
mircea_popescu: o hey check out the pretty blondy.
Corsets: Is this picture okay? I feel like I look kinda weird in it, but it was the best one I could get
Corsets: I have the photo
mircea_popescu: it's okay, and i dun recall, but the past is not dispositive. future girl that dun show isn't getting paid.
Corsets: Also, the writing isn't quite symmetrical. Is that okay?
Corsets: The girl who didn't show her face, did she still get paid?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-25 18:56 mircea_popescu: cool. so post your bitcoin addy, go write ac38270d on your tits, take a pic and post it. you know, like all those other girls.
Corsets: Really? Well now I have to try them
Corsets: Would you mind giving me the code again? Wet noodlenet erased it
mircea_popescu: the definition's not exactly fixed.
Corsets: That's certainly interesting. I don't know that I do anything illegal enough to hide from the NSA
mircea_popescu: pretty good privacy, it's an asymmetric crypto scheme. allows you to keep secrets from, say, the nsa. and also to maintain a solid identity - unlike, say, usg identity papers.
mircea_popescu: there's always that possibility yeah.
mircea_popescu: if this is sex work, it then follows matchsticks are meteors.
Corsets: There's a pretty big stigma against sex work
mircea_popescu: what, they retaliate for toplessness where you live ?
Corsets: I'm a little worried about future employers finding my face and my boobs on a blog on the Internet
mircea_popescu: there's worse fates.
Corsets: I might come back for other stuff later, idk.
Corsets: I'm less interested in the money and more interested in the work
mircea_popescu: maybe with the government, i guess.
Corsets: I am currently selling the odd adult video or photo set and applying for retail jobs
mircea_popescu: there's also a version you can run on your own desktop or server. pro version, as it were.
mircea_popescu: nah, the app/website ones are the same thing.
Corsets: I take it I should make a website one soon then
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine anyone would actually try to fit the chain on anyone's phone.
Corsets: I had to delete another one; it's downloading now, albeit slowly.
mircea_popescu: Corsets well it's only once per person you know. otherwise i'd be bankrupt, billionaire or no billionaire.
mircea_popescu: o, if you're making a desktop one it'll take a while. chain's ~120 GB these days.
Corsets: The wallet's downloading. I don't have a lot of space
Corsets: The ones we write on our tits
Corsets: And tbh I don't understand the numbers.
Corsets: Okay so I'd need to make some kind of bitcoins account then? Yeah, I guess I meant your blog. more precisely, I haven't seen anyone make that kind of offer/request and then just post the pics on their blog
Corsets: 2- is it alright if I cover the top half of my face with something? I
mircea_popescu: cool. so post your bitcoin addy, go write ac38270d on your tits, take a pic and post it. you know, like all those other girls.
Corsets: I got a message offering compensation for a custom topless shot; I'm interested in the details
mircea_popescu: hi there. what brings you here ?
asciilifeform: ready for china then?
mircea_popescu: heh. i also hear about five shades between each vowel to the desperation of native english speakers. "what do you mean you can distinguish between x and y!" "of course you can!" "say it" "x, y" "it's the same thing!"
asciilifeform: even if the ducks did get loaded off the trucks (tm)
mircea_popescu: as long as there's no clicking involved, i'm linguistislutty.
mircea_popescu: can't say it ever bothered me.
asciilifeform: 'what do these poor folks have in their mouths, to make this sound'
asciilifeform: but i suspect that pretty much all orcs learning the language had same thought
mircea_popescu: oh, and to play a little "guess the argentine" : "To learn English you must begin by thrusting the jaw forward, almost clenching the teeth, and practically immbilizing the lips. In this way the English produce the series of unpleasant little mews of which their language consists."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'the things you have to eat get scarier and scarier.' << scarcer ??
Framedragger: i think connection to bouncer on that host (which is where the logs come from) is rather stable, so good for redundancy and whatnot
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 builds this week completed, 2x for each distro - still running another Arch one right now
mircea_popescu: nothing happened, it's there.
thestringpuller: is the spirit of such a proposal still on the table even if the design isn't complete?
thestringpuller: i read through the threads and discussion fizzled out
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: whatever happened to the hard fork proposal you made?
mircea_popescu: icians, and also why they created the jwz fantasy.)
mircea_popescu: (amusingly enough, the best source re that "ancient observations" is probably ~= patristics. the substance of the eternal soul, the nature of sin, all that good stuff. for all its trite-ification in the hands of the same sort of people that also created family-friendly shakespeare, it is a very powerful philosophical item. fact remains agency is an imposition upon the gnosis, which is why intelligent people dun wanna be polit
mircea_popescu declines any credit or responsibility for the matter. for one thing, ancient observations, for the other, not my fault they hold.
mircea_popescu: ie, put on the spot, got in "the zone", sprouted some thing, audience clapped, the end.
mircea_popescu: (and i don't specifically mean his wife, here. i mean everything, the demands "not getting facebook account banned" or w/e, and paying taxes, and not running red lights or pissing on cop's shoes etc. the divine cunt.)
asciilifeform: having read nearly whole corpus of the works, i am not wholly convinced that any sizable number did.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless... gotta placate the cunt he's chained to.
mircea_popescu: i guess so. plenty of "lysenkoist" dudes were as convinced of the entire shitstack as yarvin is convinced the usg will survive.
mircea_popescu: because the shit contents is due, as we discussed, to the imperatives of the flesh. if you're an agent and you wanna survive which means you wanna survive and are an agent, you're stuck with the shit.
asciilifeform: justify the cut made where it was ?
mircea_popescu: we were discussing how "X is full of shit", but that X took values from a field of AGENTS, which is to say the people to whom history has meaning. and it was observed that the grave is the only cure for their shit contents. then you moved to talking about Y, but Y are no longer X, instead they are taken from a field of non-agents, historical memories.
mircea_popescu: well, you switched terms. the living are fulla shit.
asciilifeform: interestingly, dead folk are just as dangerous to lysenkoist 'science' as live ones - where is majorana's field theory ?
mircea_popescu: live things are full of shit. this is what the terms mean.
asciilifeform: dun matter for how long lysenkoists rule. they're still full of shit.
mircea_popescu: paradigm secretion is an act of the endocrine gland that is called "brain". and it works in science, with the eternal and irrepudiable evidence of nature right in front of eyes.
asciilifeform: srsly, the 'winner decides history' is rank nonsense, it is quite difficult to eliminate all evidence.
mircea_popescu: but hark that once your notion of truth is unformulable you lost what tu quoque claimed is the basis for science, id est, reproducibility.
mircea_popescu: ha. your notion of truth is either not complete, or not formulable. you seem to favour the later, which is why you keep ending in trouble in discussions here.
asciilifeform: my concept of 'truth' includes ALL of modern game theory, just as it includes arithmetic .
mircea_popescu: of course meta-rational is a thing. but sovereign reason is a very different thing from mere "reason" as peddled by the feminine usg & friends.
asciilifeform is aware of kindergarten game theory and is not astonished
mircea_popescu: this is strategically disastrous for any living thing. imagine, cod taking "the correct route". this means -> scania. ouch. imagine person making rsa key, taking the "correct" key. ie what, everyone takes the same primes, because they're the largest primes that fit in the notation and so "best" and so "rational choice". it's exactly a matter of the "inverse of safety from numbers" thing we discussed recently.
mircea_popescu: anyway, since we got the logs back, here's why : truth is but one.
mircea_popescu: how's this different from "i don't accept the premise earth is not at center of world" ?
mircea_popescu: you can't accept the premise as a theoretical construct to examine ?
asciilifeform: i don't accept the premise.
asciilifeform: even if idiot thinks he killed ALL the witnesses.
mircea_popescu: truth is a thing in engineering. it has ~no bearing on the affairs of mankind. do you know why ?
asciilifeform: and by same token lysenko 'showed' the bourgeois weissmanists-morganists..
mircea_popescu: and so that's the point there, not whether google did or did not create the item in question. but whether robotized control of little black discs is good enough to push out the human. that - they showed to be.
mircea_popescu: hey, who's gonna call the bluff ?
mircea_popescu: this is how hitler ended up "the bad".
mircea_popescu: bluffing - is "cheating", to the noob. however, bluffing when the opponent can't afford to call, ie, doesn't have the resources to take advantage, is simply history.
asciilifeform: there 'is no proof, no witnesses' until one day there are.
mircea_popescu: which is the problem here - not that they cheated or not. that they can't be caught. which they can't. end of story.
asciilifeform: this type of cheat is as old as the game. but it used to come with beheading when caught.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's basically this crane that spins. the corners aren't cultivated, but the crane tends to the crop 100%
asciilifeform: i still think the story of lee sedol is a story of match fraud.
mircea_popescu: neither does the korean.
mircea_popescu: yes, the computer doesn't work.
mircea_popescu: which is the story of lee sedol.
mircea_popescu: even as they don't work. but guard doesn't work even worse.
asciilifeform: but i would like to see the pillar thing.
mircea_popescu: it is cheaper for you to install a camera and "image recognition" than to hire a guard ; and the results ARE BETTER.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is besides the point. i did not say "computer". i said control.
mircea_popescu: EVEN IF you lose the difference between pi r^2 and 4r^2
mircea_popescu: best example though : cereal crops. are you aware it is today more productive to build them in the pillar system than in the traditional plowing system ?
mircea_popescu: today control is even cheaper than power. and the basis for humanity is vested in a % of a %, rather than "men" or "everyone patient enough"
asciilifeform: ended srsly? where is the robot that picks tomato ?
mircea_popescu: but that period ended. and with it - all the momentary crap deluding itself with permanence.
mircea_popescu: and so all the nonsense from the various exalted diet technichians, engels and carnegey and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: THEN steam power rendered actual muscle irrelevant, but control wasn't good enough to supplant people. and so there was a brief period, almost a century in length, during which "humanity" ie, the ability to finely control complex mechanisms, was the basis of humanity.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the point here is : that for as long as "upper body strength" was the bottleneck limiting human civilisation, you had male citizenship. had females been advantaged by nature there, you'd have had female citizenship. they aren't, it's a cruel joke, watch slavegirls trying to build up muscle and weep sometime.
mircea_popescu: it is a disease of the dungeon dweller.
mircea_popescu: even if they were, it'd be more the fault of your mom not coming from a sufficiently slutty line of whores, to give you good immunity matrix,
mircea_popescu: other than pancreatic cancer, that one scythed lady which cost us both jobs and mcculler, there's ~nothing. and you don't catch that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do i catch ? syphilis ? not that i ever did, but it's a quintuple shot of biseptol. tuberculosis ? lmao. you can't even catch tuberculosis, there's a "must be this poor to ride" that train. what, exactly ? lice is directly visible.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller why ?
mircea_popescu: aite next i go ima try an' keep my mind on the road.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform of course i do! what, where the fuck do you pick up fucktoys, huh ?
mircea_popescu: i was too preoccupied otherwise to take pictures of street - with channel down middle, like 1600 spain!
mircea_popescu: THEN it was a certain way. but then and then only, at no point prior and - if trhere's any mercy in the heavens - at no point ulterior.
mircea_popescu: no, because the magical moment of "tail end of industrialism before robotics" are gone.
mircea_popescu: history is back on its sanity track, rather than the exceptional "tail end of industrialism before robotics" moment.
mircea_popescu: the reason the good count failed (which has little to do with his being a nut) is that briefly, economic conditions dictated to pretend the worms are "all people". that brief bubble burst, meanwhile.
asciilifeform: and the reason the good count de alba y yeltes was a nut, is that it dun work this way.
mircea_popescu: need i link to the spanish discussion ?
mircea_popescu: there's absolutely nothing wrong with "police brutality", just as long as the brutalized are the losers. rape is actually right and proper, just as long as the only rape victims are poor women and their children, whatever sex or age. etcetera.
mircea_popescu: i suspect most of this was voluntary, actually. it's good business for them to avoid anything with claws.
asciilifeform: then again sp4mz0rz treat ips like toilet paper
mircea_popescu: most of them got shut down within 16 hours or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/the-internet-of-shit/ << check out the update, btw.
mircea_popescu: was ~the only part of the us that didn't stink of ustardism.
mircea_popescu: anyway asciilifeform , the usg.desperation should be palpable, if they're scraping the barrel so close to the wood they've dredged up curtis yarvin, even.
mircea_popescu: lol fags in the us army ruining us army proved unfounded ?
mircea_popescu: mr mold got a job to do. much like mr. max, and every other capon in the history of "civilisation", he got a snatch he's chained to and belabouring to please.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's two kinds of men in this world. those who walk with their life in palm of hand ; and those who have a job to do.
asciilifeform: anyway i am falling down from the sheer l0ltr0n1c force of mr mold's defense of eth
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: phf is eager to become the next nanotube??
pete_dushenski: "The Pentagon plans to announce the repeal of its ban on openly serving transgender service members next month, U.S. defense officials said. The repeal would come five years after a 2011 decision to end the U.S. military's ban on gays and lesbians serving openly, despite fears - which proved unfounded - that such a move would be too great a burden in wartime and would undermine readiness." << PROOOOOOVED unfounded. sci
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-30#1459609 << more like end of july. relocating to the 'burbs wasn't in that estimate.
ben_vulpes: that lines are either perpendicular or parallel to gravity
ben_vulpes: i've read a few interesting ways of attacking the problem, and the wrinkles that crop up (brightness variation, for one), and one *hilarious* set of assumptions that some people make in the name of performance
ben_vulpes: can't tell how poorly without actually trying to duct-tape more open sores together, though.
ben_vulpes was idly hoping to waste time on kalman filters in preliminary research but much of the heavy lifting seems to have been done already.
ben_vulpes: the term of art is "structure from motion".
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i'm talking about the integration of imu data, possible points in three-space from frame to frame, among just a few things that go into turning a set of stills into a painted point cloud
mircea_popescu: (this also means that the postponing from here http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-24#1489088 just got posponed again. by another 50k blocks, ie ~a week.
mircea_popescu: (explanation for sane people : in another of countless "we'll shave with the blender and paint walls by dripping nail polish on upturned, revved motorcycle wheel" creative moves of the mit derps, they're "temporarily" using the miner signalling for difficulty to mean miner signalling for implementing their derpy soft-fork. because nothing bad can ever come out of arbitrary, non-designed redefinitions of the meaning of mechani
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller dude, obscure reddit is obscure. who ever cares, what.
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: nifty. and overdue!
pete_dushenski: lol i dun even know the url
pete_dushenski: also the cesspool in luke's noggin
thestringpuller: isn't ironic people say shit like this, but then luke-jr joins the channel to get "support for hardfork". then immediately after being shut down is like "okay guys. they still hate us power rangers. I don't think we should talk about hard forks any time soon, cause it ain't happening"
thestringpuller: "lol, what exactly is your (Popescu & friends) leverage to veto changes other than a supposedly large stash of coins that you keep threatening to crash the price with?"
pete_dushenski: the chewing this time is of a mayobeast cow, however. not a tasty slaughter, but necessary all the same.
pete_dushenski: trinque: the pendulum swings back and forth, usually bloodily
thestringpuller: didn't white people not live in DC for the entiritey of the crack epidemic
trinque: I don't think it's apparent from the outside that TX having it's own culture isn't some kind of marketing brand or hashtag
thestringpuller: don't want the children of hipsters from brooklyn to grow up and try to make everything 100% socialist
thestringpuller: sure. but make sure you continue the legacy.
trinque: anyone worth a shit already had them when being raised in TX
thestringpuller: trinque: til I'm 80 for fiatocalypse << next generation's problems. train the children well with lots of beatings.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-22#1487103 << in a word : drones. i met some local kids recently who were doing exactly this. they shot a scene for the latest xmen movie but most of what they do is 3d modelling like this for local businesses. these kids were ~so~ sophisticated. made it seem like drone + software did 99% of the work on its own.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: muchas gracias. i've implemented a fix. we'll now see if i twisted the right knob.
Framedragger: [21:39:35] <mircea_popescu> Framedragger ironically, that was in the log :D << oh.. damn! >.<
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo oh, "embattled" is it. lol. how's the derp know what whitey's gonna give him ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bugpowder well that's pretty dumb then

|