asciilifeform: jurov: this is because the standard was incomplete, and it is nearly impossible to write a program today wholly using only the standard.
asciilifeform: 'Android would freeze unexpectedly, especially when trying to watch aerial feeds of unmanned drones, the source said.'
jurov: eh, i run into this with common lisp all the time
asciilifeform: at any rate, the existence of even the POSSIBILITY of a program which ran on one, but not another, is what i was speaking of
jurov: yes, there was a gui
asciilifeform: was there a gui ?
asciilifeform: nor was there ever a hard standard.
asciilifeform: there was NEVER a usable multivendorization of java.
asciilifeform: phf: c 'portability' is a laugh, considering the tight coupling with cpu
jurov: re: common lisp - i'm curious, is there any 20y code still worthwhile to run now?
asciilifeform: languages with MOTHERFUCKING ACTUAL STANDARDS
jurov: is there any language capable of running 20yo code?
Joshua-I: trinque: I'd advise seeing it for yourself as it may be the only way to convince you
phf: Joshua-I: you didn't understand what i said, and i have neither interest nor time to explain myself
Joshua-I: phf: it's not like consistency and rigor are foreign concepts to me just adding in some comments on the other side of the conversation
phf: somehow the separation between the two is totally alien concept to a lot of people who run into tmsr machine. "i eat shit, therefore it's good for everyone". we too sometimes eat shit, but we have good sense to know that it might not be the best thing
phf: Joshua-I: sure, that's why i use intellij for work, but i will not talk up the virtues of intellij like it's a good thing, which is what you're doing
Joshua-I: phf: it is if you want the goods
Joshua-I: phf: eh I might be over abstracting because I tend to just jump from concept to api so I can get something done sooner rather than later
phf: you look at ipython code now, read tutorials and you think to yourself "oh this makes sense, it is nice", but over the course of 5 years scientific computing with python went through 3 or 4 different suits. that's an unreasonable amount of cognitive overhead, considering that mathematica now supports all the same primitives that mathemaica in '95 did
trinque: clim rather
trinque: that said wtf is wrong with the lisp repl for a "notebook"
asciilifeform: (i will remind n00bs, also, that the part of phuctor which actually phuctors is a pure c proggy.)
asciilifeform: but it is what they had.
asciilifeform: phuctor in python ought to be seen in the same light as the bamboo stakes smeared in shit the vietnamese defended their country with
trinque: tbot here is perl, trb builder is either sh or Makefile
phf: Joshua-I: i don't know what "same api" means, in this case. ipython is an enhanced ~repl~, but the code that you write with it constantly changes, because can't just load data set into a python array. need to use numpy, etc.
asciilifeform: there is plenty to criticize. but it had gone with 'sane engineering all the way down' you would be waiting for it still.
trinque: some things benefit from expediency and we as yet lack the republican computing platform
Joshua-I: I'm doing this program online that uses it. Gets the job done
asciilifeform: i suffered the misfortune, at rupturefarms, of maintaining a 'sage' thing, it was agony
phf: ipython is a handy python repl thing, but i think it was some people's first repl, so it turned into reinvention of clim presentations. problem is it's entirely useless without third party libraries for any kind of large scale data analysis, because core python is limited. where's the landscape of python scientific libraries is a constantly changing mess.
asciilifeform: at any rate, the thing 'ipython', 'sage', etc. imitate, is 'mathematica', which is a close-source turd but at least it WORKS and WILL WORK FOREVER on my internet-less machine.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:09 Framedragger: wonder what tmsr thinks of ipython notebooks. basically you go to website and are presented with python interpreter, and a ready-made list of commands for graphing, doing stats etc. thinking of doing one of these for some initial ssh keyset analysis. nothing too serious at all
ben_vulpes: previous line in some other buffer or what?
ben_vulpes: lol and even more in teh other logs
trinque: plenty of that in the logs
trinque: no one will stop you from using the tools you like. we've already got cl, python, perl, shell script, et al, floating around various places
Framedragger: presumably said website would have the raw data as a module or somesuch
Framedragger: wonder what tmsr thinks of ipython notebooks. basically you go to website and are presented with python interpreter, and a ready-made list of commands for graphing, doing stats etc. thinking of doing one of these for some initial ssh keyset analysis. nothing too serious at all
asciilifeform: (in place of the toolz)
asciilifeform: doubt it was the only thing; consider how many spare fittings would fit in the machine shop hall.
asciilifeform: lengths of pipe, as per BingoBoingo, is one likely item, but this pointedly does not require a whole lathe
asciilifeform: i should like to know what it was they typically cut.
BingoBoingo: Submarine without lathe is likely impossible
asciilifeform: lel u.s. navy, 'During the past six months, our surveyors have uncovered a number of submarines not complying with a requirement for a chip shield on the lathe or drill press. To aid the fleet in a decision process for procuring a solution, I found three of numerous possible companies which supply equipment...'
asciilifeform: http://www.gettyimages.com/pictures/an-image-of-a-metal-lathe-on-the-captured-german-u505-news-photo-181424737 << germany, also.
BingoBoingo: Well when initially building boat do solder connections when you have the space to do so.
BingoBoingo: sharkbites is this brass encased o-ring push to connect deal. rather handy
asciilifeform: where there is ample space to swing a torch
asciilifeform: pex really seems like one of those plastics specially-designed for american chumps, to annihilate the intrinsic advantages of using plastic
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: same way they get into every boat ever ?
BingoBoingo: Old garden hoses though, especially the less common 3/4" are wear items even when situated in positions where wear seems unlikely.
asciilifeform: there is, imho, something there, old garden hoses are likely to remain available longer and wider than teflon
asciilifeform: yes he has the weird hipster 'let's use only junkyard parts' thing going
BingoBoingo: Even the mega psi hot water hoses
BingoBoingo: because they have just enough flex to not break and because unlike hoses do not break just because time passed.
asciilifeform: why the fuck would you want rigid pipes on a boat.
BingoBoingo: Anyways Orlov's plumbing problem is that when making the boat it should have been a primary rather than secondary consideration. Also wtf, hoses? Rigid copper seems like it would be much better for that application if boar design allowed for sanely routing pipes.
asciilifeform: good chunk of the text does look familiar, yes.
BingoBoingo: Srsly? He seems to put most of the book content on blog.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i just had a crate of lafonde b00kz come in. these have got to be the worst-formatted and least dense printed matter i have ever purchased.
pete_dushenski could never understand his father's interest in spam. perhaps curio, perhaps rekindling of some memory, but it was always in house.
pete_dushenski: "In Austin, Minnesota, another Kmart was turned into offices for Hormel, as well as a giant Spam Museum." << lol!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: walls are kinda thin and flimsy for that purpose. the orcs with 'strong retard' muscle will bust through those barriers like a steam train through a sheet of tin foil.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 12:16 thestringpuller: Also they are nailing the doors shut on Ether tomorrow until "clear winner": "As a Poloniex customer, you do not need to do anything. The migration will occur automatically, and your full balance of Ethereum will be transferred to the winning chain. Keep in mind that as we near the fork, we will be temporarily disabling deposits and withdrawals in preparation for the migration process. Trading will continue
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What and how are immaterial, likely will be solved for them.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i always picture them as being reused for gulags.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: based on observations in the wild, if they were told to go there they would.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wake me up when there are pokemonists in north atlantic.
deedbot: [Qntra] Coinbase's Brian Armstrong Huffs The Ethereum Hardfork Jenkem - http://qntra.net/2016/07/coinbases-brian-armstrong-huffs-the-ethereum-hardfork-jenkem/
pete_dushenski: bobby flay, that's the one i was thinking of
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 16:21 asciilifeform: i would happily live in a truck if the truck could be teleported into a parallel space with 0 people by push of a button.
mats: looks like i read the old ver of the doc. see https://apps.fcc.gov/kdb/GetAttachment.html?id=zXtrctoj6zH7oNEOO6De6g%3D%3D&desc=594280%20D02%20U-NII%20Device%20Security%20v01r03&tracking_number=39498 for the new one if you wanna read
pete_dushenski: m your work email, and require a scan of either your passport or driver’s license. And you will comply." << y u no pgp rita ?
pete_dushenski: "If you work at Goldman Sachs in New York City and you want to tie up a woman and then have sex with her, there’s a good chance you’ll first have to speak to Rita. She’ll insist on calling your office, speaking to the switchboard operator, and being patched through to your desk. Then she will want to check out your profile on the company website and LinkedIn. She’ll demand you send her message fro
asciilifeform: quite the nightmare to statist mind.
asciilifeform: at any rate, don't expect usg to surrender in their war against general-purpose radio.
asciilifeform: 'here, you can have usable box again!111 for 2x the cost! be happy'
asciilifeform: there are still wrt54g in use.
mats: too many revisions, and i don't think wrt54gl was available then
mats: i don't see the tendril at work here
mats: authenticated by who?
asciilifeform: 'device may only be sold if 1) it is broken in the ways we demand 2) user cannot fix it'
mats: >An applicant must describe the overall security measures and systems that ensure that: 1. only properly authenticated software is loaded and operating the device; and 2. the device is not easily modified to operate with RF parameters outside of the authorization.
asciilifeform: the issue is about control.
mats: i recall the issue being about power transmission
asciilifeform: so the router thing is quite certainly not about spectrum policing.
asciilifeform: incidentally cn co. 'baofeng' happily sells 'piss all over the spectrum' radio sets in usa.
asciilifeform: cn will churn out STRICTLY what can be sold to the chumps and no more.
asciilifeform: costs them ~0.
mats: .cn is happy to churn em out all the same, no?
asciilifeform: mats: and the pigfuckers certainly don't want you and i turning the wifi chip into mesh network etc.
asciilifeform: just like what microshit is in the process of achieving with pc.
asciilifeform: but yes, none of this has anything to do with spectrum politeness and everything to do with 'them terrorists install non-usgificated firmware, handbuilt bsds even, this has got to stop'
asciilifeform: 'ASUS are co-working with developers such as Merlin and DDWRT to make sure 3rd party firmwares power are the same as ASUS firmware and obey the regulations. ' << lel.
mats: the certified firmware."
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:52 trinque: if you've reached the point where the world has beaten you back to being willing to live in a shipping container, why live?
ben_vulpes: when the problem domains are simple, the solution proposed appears to work. in reality, as *tard mgmt demands more features, flexibility, reports, etc, the complexity of maintaining and extending under the frameworkreich becomes more and more costly, a thing not necessarily apparent to anyone who hasn't suffered the saga or who doesn't think in terms of complexity minimization from the get-go.
phf: asciilifeform: it's a totally speculative exploration of north african pirate city states during the age of exploration http://hermetic.com/bey/pirate-utopias/ it might appeal to your romantic nature
shinohai: We already have orbitlab up there
asciilifeform: trinque: i played the game, it had about the same relationship to rand as 'Der Giftpilz' has to judaism.
asciilifeform: there is 1 historic solution, as mircea_popescu like to point out, 'be chingis khan', 10,001 slaves, armies, castles.
asciilifeform: the problem i was futilely stabbing away at is 'how to be independent of homo homini lupus est'
asciilifeform: a city is quite the opposite of subj, no ?
trinque: I'd live there
asciilifeform: i will add that my interest in subj is not limited to the sea, but to all other environments which are hostile to 'normalpeoplewithfamilies' (as depicted in mircea_popescu's articles) yet have plenty of room to be 'lost' inside, and quite habitable with some amount of technological help
phf: i'd live on a sub, if it had those 1970s stage set rooms with giant windows through which you can observe underwater marine life, but which you can also close if you're being attacked by the establishment
asciilifeform: (i suppose they do, if you're chingis khan, or mircea_popescu , etc. but not for the contemplated poorfag use case.)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: gavin has not yet showed up at my house with kalash
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:52 trinque: if you've reached the point where the world has beaten you back to being willing to live in a shipping container, why live?
BingoBoingo: Nothing wrong with shipping container as concrete pouring mold, especially since you can tie rebar in there too. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505520
thestringpuller: so i'm using suds with python. i'm looking at the package maintanence and the mailing list. anyhow when an opensource project dies, can you just be like "i'm forking this and doing it"
asciilifeform: ergo the thread.
asciilifeform: trinque: you will find that the machines are not designed for permanent life aboard, or to survive winters.
trinque: seems like if you're wiling to go about 7-10kts there are a few
asciilifeform: mats: i never determined a hard minimum. but will note that most of the folk on a ww2 sub did things that would be mechanical/reasonably automatic today.
mats: asciilifeform: I read the thread but didn't see a number, what did you arrive at?
mircea_popescu: so you'll drink piss just so as to not have to listen to the neighbours fuck ?
asciilifeform: i am not a tall fella but i did not fit in the cot in that museum-sub (it was largely unguarded and you could play with the contents)
asciilifeform: the ultimate constraint is energy, aha
asciilifeform: even the sub didn't CARRY fresh water, srsly
asciilifeform: i did the arithmetic.
mircea_popescu: well, figure out what you eat in a year ; plus all the things you might want but won't eventually eat.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the recurring costs, and recurring dependencies on shore, are idiotically high
asciilifeform: i can spell out the missing piece (thought it was obvious)
mircea_popescu: it pointedly does everything you openly admit you want ; and fails to do all the things you want but disawov, such as "it should be a grownup for me".
asciilifeform: incidentally i've learned that many folks in american east coast live in boats, but do it 100% in the marina. as a kind of enforced-whiteness trailer park.
mircea_popescu: "pointedly not it", chiefly because you're trying the oldest trick in the poorfag's book, which is to say to NAME his target according to the conventions of trade, but to secretly expect it to satisfy his metaphysical expectations.
asciilifeform: at any rate, a machine-for-being-comfortably-poor that costs 2mil, if it were to exist, would be a solid answer to my equation. but the diesel pleasure boat is pointedly not it.
asciilifeform: so - either investment, or fly. pick.
mircea_popescu: or for that matter the 16yo slave girl.
mircea_popescu: fucking the painting, also.
asciilifeform: ~flying~ the investatron would be nuts.
asciilifeform: then - yes.
mircea_popescu: work the stoicks a summer, buy boat.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, in common terms the problem is solved : 4 room floating apt can be had used in good condition for a coupla mil.
asciilifeform: it isn't 'scares', but more of the british admiral's answer to 'what shall we do about uboats?' -- 'boil the ocean'
asciilifeform: picture mircea_popescu were asked to design a bridge. 'just part 50% of the moon's mass right ~here~...'
mircea_popescu: but the % varies - at the heyday of the empire, during trajan, burebista's 200+ tons of gold were not enough ; centuries later, a few % of that sufficed for an entire dynasty of paleologai
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 16:54 asciilifeform: this begs the question. yes, you need money. just as you need rocket to get to mars. but ~how much~ and what vector.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505780 <<< the answer is also obvious enough. a PERCENTAGE of the total money calculated on the basis of integration. these days, 50%, hence the bitcoin mining process.
asciilifeform: who chopped off his nose, then ?
mircea_popescu: perhaps tycho brache / keppler is the best example of this duality.
trinque: mircea_popescu: science is still a matter of conversation with others
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505527 << depends how high up you scale. to me they do - as stated, people with large inheritance trying to pretend. a sort of niccolo da canal, say.
asciilifeform: many folks dun even lift a finger to publish the goodz.
asciilifeform: ^ aha. see the 'coffin notebook' thread.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:52 trinque: this guy's got a lab, what, to continue taking part in the same world he can't stand?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505521 << generally people that do labwork "for the world" aren't worth much scientifically ; the ones that do science dun usually care what the wofld does.
asciilifeform: imho we can skip the menschkeit 'everett's device is the only working device' mega-thread, subj is amply worked in the l0gz...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the man's own words, "he who thinks of death best not follow me"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:51 phf: and the problem he was trying to solve is a lot closer to what you want to achieve, i.e. put lab on water, rather than recreate the lifestyle of late 6th century pirate nomads or whatever
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505518 << strangely enough, none of the kids playing history (with the abundance their forefathers so imprudently assured them) realise that "hey, things are linked, a boat like this means i gotta sleep with a schmitar under pillow!"
asciilifeform: but it makes generous use of everett's device. outside of a few 'sexy' cases, we don't get to hear from the dead armies.
mircea_popescu: which they famously did.
mircea_popescu: you know, sultan ordered "an army as strong as the one which took constantinople" be assembled to deal with this guy once and for all. after not doing so well for a long time eventually cornered him against a mountain, where vlad told his men that neither capture nor death of famine beign fitting of warriors, how about we go into their camp and fucking rape them.
asciilifeform: ( http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sphere.htm is all i could find, but the meat of the discussion was in a now-lost usenet post... )
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:49 trinque: sounds like resigning to die, but then not having the dignity to eat the bullet
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505509 << you familiar with the famous vlad tepes vs mehmed 2 encounter ?
mircea_popescu: i dun recall that essay ? do link then.
asciilifeform: the 'extremist solutions' essay
asciilifeform: al schwartz's proof that n-dimensional sphere has more and more of its volume closer and closer to the surface as N approaches infinity
asciilifeform: hey, recall the sphere thread ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> possibly answer is, be small king. far away <<< this is quite lulzy, you know. "i want a center of a circle that's squarer and closer to the margin"
mircea_popescu: if they do, are solvable in practice. if they don't, you're advised to fix your head.
mircea_popescu: anyway. problems, like f(x)=some polynomial, either have or don't have real roots.
mircea_popescu: whenever you end up with a problem which has no real roots, you therefore have a problem which... has no real roots.
mircea_popescu: hence my observation that the problem is psychogenic in nature.
asciilifeform: thing is a sail. wind pushes it off course, and also down (crash.) and fuel is exhausted. can try to counter this by building larger engines, but then need bigger lifting envelope, and you get... moar sail.
mircea_popescu: or hubcaps or w/e the nigglets steal thgese days.
asciilifeform: actually this is reminiscent of the aerodynamic problem which nailed dirigibles:
mircea_popescu: and yes, it comes with the gunk - once you are powerful lord for yourself, you gotta also select others for which to be, or else make enemies.
mircea_popescu: the momeny you've defined your aim as "to exclude others", you have therefore and inseparably defined your goal as "i wish to be powerful lord"
asciilifeform: if the problem is posed as 'can i build a castle in which i can successfully stow a stolen princess every time', then yes, answer is 'be powerful'
mircea_popescu: a change from, "who the fuck does this priam think he is"
mircea_popescu: there is EXACTLY no other ; and the main issue of the war of troy was, "who the fuck does agamemnon think he is!"
asciilifeform: the actual question is 'how do i be left alone'
asciilifeform: naturally 'powerful lord' immediately botches the question
mircea_popescu: and understand - this is the fundamental boyishness here. "father, how should i be a powerful lord ?" "have many friends" "i'll just build a strong castle"
asciilifeform: this begs the question. yes, you need money. just as you need rocket to get to mars. but ~how much~ and what vector.
mircea_popescu: but the sand will cover your intake.
mircea_popescu: the cairo museum is overflowing with items stacked 5 deep.
mircea_popescu: there's tons of these. you could go live in a fucking tomb and probably die of natural causes before they'd even find out.
asciilifeform: incidentally monasteries are a weaker, land-based special case of the thing i am interested in.
mircea_popescu: they were not on any map ; owing perhaps to the happenstance egyptians generally dunno wtf map is, but perhaps not just.
asciilifeform: are they all dead today /
mircea_popescu also visited coptic monastery ; we were the first visitors since summer.
mircea_popescu: i say this on the basis of actual experience, not as a matter of "i imagine boats sometime when i'm frustrated"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform asking "What is the minimal money necessary" is like asking "what is the minimum current draw of useful appliance". it depends neh ? for the money orlov already spent on his pretense (boat, authorship, whatever), egyptian native could have lived entire life happily in the circumstance of "the company of other bipeds being wholly SELECTABLE".
asciilifeform: it doesn't solve the problem !
asciilifeform: but what is the minimal money necessary? and what to build with it ?
mircea_popescu: this is ~the only function of money.
asciilifeform: so what would a sane approach to 'i wish to live with the company of other bipeds being wholly SELECTABLE', if not boat ? or mircea_popescu sees entire question as nuttery.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the derp was broadly correct, itwas "in that general direction" and so forth. but omfg patch of salt!
mircea_popescu: i'm not directing this at him. he is whatever, i dun care. but from YOUR perspective, he works practically as a scammer. you know how donner party ended up in the spot where they ate each other ?
mircea_popescu: actually, further - i think that attempts to solve it on those lines will cost the attempter his life and sanity for no benefit. in other words - i say orlov is a scammer.
mircea_popescu: i don't think trying to formulate it is madness ; i do think that the orlov formulation is ridiculous at best.
asciilifeform: but i say they are worth considering separately.
asciilifeform: and quite likely mircea_popescu is right re the technical side.
asciilifeform: but the question of 'how long can last' is an engineering question.
mircea_popescu: oregon trail consisted of ? man and woman and grown children and the grown women's boyfriends and and and and a dog@!
asciilifeform: well then let's concretize: no, i personally have 0 interest in being part of a mormon family. and yes, it means i live until first broken leg. maybe this is acceptable tradeoff from my pov.
asciilifeform: question is, folks who dun have it, or dun want it, ought to eat their pistol immediately ? or there are other ways to live.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-03 17:44 mircea_popescu: for the anthropologist, god damned fascinating, they're like a family-sized snail building its conch.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-03 17:48 mircea_popescu: there's ONE thing the middle eastern guy has that white man can't replicate, and that is, a stable, and here i kid you not, a stable, of dozen+ pliable obedient females WITH offspring.
mircea_popescu: i guess ima have to dig the link now.
mircea_popescu: do we revisit the egyptian household thread from last week ?
asciilifeform: granted these were households, with plenty of disposable human torpedoes, not lone wolf. but still.
mircea_popescu: demographically, rather than as a work of fiction, the push west was a push towards the highly concentrated san francisco.
asciilifeform: plenty of 'poor and we will live four days' journey from the next poor'
mircea_popescu: this is the definition of poverty, nude and rude : incapable of surviving on own.
mircea_popescu: if you're poor your only hope of survival is the swarm. this is a point of fact, and why peasants and hunters flocked to town to be poor there.
asciilifeform: which is the fundamental problem with live-in trucks etc.
mircea_popescu: (proper there meaning "of its own" not "correct")
asciilifeform: i see the hypothetical machine as a pill against 'if yer poor you gotta live near other poor folks'
mircea_popescu: there was a technical counter there, as here ; it was abandoned upon your surrender. what was left were there as here "philosophical" let's say items, which lacking any proper substance can continue indefinitely.
asciilifeform: well it was a philosophical rather than technical counter.
asciilifeform: the last time we had this thread we got a, imho, more interesting mircea_popescuine: 'boat is wrong problem because you are trying to make being poor and powerless work, if yer poor yer job is to die'
mircea_popescu: but to my eyes, it;s more a case of "i want impossible item" "why ?" "because of strange notion" "Wouldn't it be cheaper to..." "fu demigod, it is true humanity to do the impossible ; takes demigod to accept the obvious!"
asciilifeform: is this simply variation on familiar mircea_popescu program 'i am demigod and if somebody has a motivation i don't grasp, they are inconsequential sea slug and stfu' ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform women shit shits into the world, which follow their dreams and could one day be president. accept gusti in your life!
mircea_popescu: (they're lost in space, the histrion takes a shit, which flies towards the foil ; "accept Gusti in your life!")
asciilifeform: (yes this is not what you get in a boat, but it is a kind of mathematical ideal)
asciilifeform: i would happily live in a truck if the truck could be teleported into a parallel space with 0 people by push of a button.
mircea_popescu: EVEN IF i fucking armored it and added a thermoplonjon thing.
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want TO LIVE IN YOUR FUCKING CAR, communitng forever for the rest of your life, yes ?
asciilifeform: people dun wanna be in a tank either.
mircea_popescu: upon practice, it turns out that... people dun wanna be there.
mircea_popescu: the nuke sub is exactly an item with no utility or human interest, built under the PRETEXT of a "nuclear war", which is another fiction trope with not much real anchorage (as discussed in some trilema article).
asciilifeform: how much of the $maxint machine do you ~need~ if you don't need to launch nukes ? etc