asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526632 << this is entirely correct. the 'problem' which autoconf pretends (yes, pretends) to 'solve', is EVIL
asciilifeform: and yes, if jurov does not roll up his sleeves, and do the painful cleaning, it will rust and eventually no longer fire.
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #trilema 16 weeks, 5 days, 11 hours, 3 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <mike_c> at least you won the 'most famous mircea popescu' award - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mircea+popescu
asciilifeform: the fella who was in charge of this, vanished
jurov: you always use the most immaterial point and use it as counterargument "phee jurov doesn't want to clean his guns manually"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 03:11 phf: i say it's a chicken and egg problem, because you know you can get vendor versions of posix tools (and then still reduce the available "language" even more, by taking away some features that might be missing in nominally posix sh on some obscure system), but you can't really do anything else, until you established some truths about your environment
asciilifeform: srsly it is not enough that we have the gnudiff turd baked in ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 03:02 mircea_popescu: basically, seems to me most, or at least a good chunk of autoconf problems as described by alf come from the fact that it tries to parse, rather than compile. in the abstract sense of these terms.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526615 << my complaint is that it adds a meg of UNREADABLE and - largely UNTESTABLE (i do not have a VMS box, nor a machine with zsh or ksh, nor do i intend to , and i REFUSE to sign code that claims to run there , srsly wtf omfg) - and that it introduces massive turd, useless language m4, go and learn it, read the implementation
asciilifeform: so jurov's complaint rather resembles 'so consensus is that washing machines are useless and wtf, i have to clean this rifle manually ?'
asciilifeform: jurov: no, but that it is better than letting the thing rust solid
jurov: interesting, so the consesnus is apparently wot does not mean anything anymore and i should curate gpg keys manually?
asciilifeform: shinohai: it is almost exactly the thing i imagined when first wrote 'v'.
asciilifeform: (the latter was already implemented by phf and worx great)
asciilifeform: then again, he argued - imho very successfully - against a canonical ~tree~, not against www which shows all known vpatches in tree form
asciilifeform: the other option of course is to do it as mircea_popescu described, and to have NO canonical vpatch repo at all, and 'every man for himself.'
asciilifeform: jurov: aha, and those are the 5 people who have any business patching trb.
jurov: well, the v set is like 5 people
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1526667 << is it really so hard to replace the pubkeys wherever they were kept, with your current v set ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 09:32 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525876 << you conveniently omitted that 4 of 5 cases the mutilations was client-side
asciilifeform: 'OK, so I figured out one part of the puzzle I think: dbus-daemon is broken handling incoming messages where there's first a message without auxiliary fd in the socket buffer, which is then immediately followed by one with auxiliary fd. The kernel will already return the auxiliary fd with the first message, and dbus-daemon takes that as broken message and will abort the connection.' -- poettering.
jurov: When there will be new shiny thing in rust or something
jurov: noone can't ever use vanilla autotools and ftjam as documented. it's absolute necessity to prove own intelligence and DRY-adherence by creatively rigging the build system.
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1525876 << you conveniently omitted that 4 of 5 cases the mutilations was client-side
diana_coman: I'll search the logs to find phf's pointer and have a look at it
BingoBoingo: http://www.slate.com/blogs/five_ring_circus/2016/08/21/the_olympics_wrestling_controversy_that_led_a_mongolian_coach_to_remove.html
BingoBoingo: <phf> i think crystal whatever is particularly nasty take on autoconf, probably one of the best examples in support of asciilifeform's rants. << Nah, "Monero" is far worse because of what it supposes to be.
mircea_popescu: in truth we've been working on all sorts of things other than build process for months nao.
phf: by changes i mean the homebrew build patches. pretty sure i said something about "please look at them patches" in #eulora, probably to jurov or diana_coman. i highly doubt it was done, so more suffering on their part :>
mircea_popescu: phf eulora can't pull current cs because they fucked it up. so i wouldn't know.
phf: do you know if my changes were integrated into the release? because last time i checked the build wasn't doing autoconf, but simply using patches generated scripts.
mircea_popescu: anyway ; it's evident that in the future republican code will have one of the two possible profiles (trb-like ; eulora-like), not necessarily one, and certainly not necessarily the former.
phf: only worse autoconf build i've seen was clisp, but in the later case it was written by one of autoconf authors, so while it was elaborate it was at the very least sane
phf: i think crystal whatever is particularly nasty take on autoconf, probably one of the best examples in support of asciilifeform's rants.
mircea_popescu: in other, unrelated-ish sad : to this day, "web development" has no javascript tree shaker.
phf: well, since asciilifeform's not here "let them eat nagant! wake me up when less stupid people!"
phf: i think at best it could be trimmed down, but i think even that's doable by limiting the number of m4 macros used for includes. or perhaps being very specific with what you want. "i need gcc 4" will necessarily be less messy than "i need a c compiler", considering that most of the time the program is not ready to deal with wide range of compilers anyway
mircea_popescu: except it will appear to, for a briefd interval at first. then it will create friction between purists and inclusionists, which is just about as dumb drama as livejournal disputes.
phf: but autoconf being at the subtrate level is testament to "unix won", its purpose to give you details about "what's unix" given the tools that are available at the most abstract level of unixness
mircea_popescu: but it is evident the blame isn't autoconf's per se.
mircea_popescu: of course the process and its result will be horrifying.
phf: new takes on build systems suffer, because they rely on high level languages. and if your vendor didn't provide you with perl or python, you're back to squire one "how do i compile my build system on this machine"
phf: i say it's a chicken and egg problem, because you know you can get vendor versions of posix tools (and then still reduce the available "language" even more, by taking away some features that might be missing in nominally posix sh on some obscure system), but you can't really do anything else, until you established some truths about your environment
phf: but fwiw even if openbsd, say, will give you a similar compilation environment, it's not going to give you bash out of the box. it's ksh, so you're back to "least common sh denominator"
phf: neither were designed for programming, sh is rudimentary even by bash standards. on linux sh is linked to bash, but elsewhere you might actually encounter a barely posix take on it.
phf: there are no arrays. you literally don't get better storage than "text in a variable". there's very limited math. even expressing something simple "do this n times" is pain.
phf: i think the reason is that the sh/m4 combo is particularly well suited for what you call parsing. really it's very well suited at "expanding code". it's wholly inadequate for building compilers
mircea_popescu: heck, gcc is not much better than a three pass parser most of the time.
mircea_popescu: which really, isn't also parsed in the way lisp is also parsed because people are emotionally attached, and no other reason.
mircea_popescu: basically, seems to me most, or at least a good chunk of autoconf problems as described by alf come from the fact that it tries to parse, rather than compile. in the abstract sense of these terms.
mircea_popescu: and sure, maybe d1 = "need to compile c code" in which case "check for d1" means "do we have a way to compile c code on this system ? ok, what is it ? and how is it invoked ? ok here we go then :"
mircea_popescu: let's work with an abstract example. suppose there's project X, which can for the purpose of configure be reduced to a list of n lines, whereby each line produces a dependency from the list of D1- D5 by the criterion that line# mod 5. so a sane autoconf will read the whole list, produce a list reading "d1, d2, d3, d4, d5" and then proceed to check these. once. five fucking checks, five lines of checking.
phf: well, so sh/m4 are dumb. one is a very primitive programming language (no portable notion of arrays for example, so "read all lines" "create a list" is not a straightforward thing), the other one is a templating language
phf: so you either rely on those, or you have a chicken and egg problem (how do i compile c without knowing how to compile c)
mircea_popescu: rather than "read line, check if we checked, check" wouldn't it be saner to "read all lines, create list of checks, check list" ?
phf: afaiu it's because of subtrate problem. there are some programs that are specified in posix, so they are going to be on every system. sh, m4, already compiled by vendor.
mircea_popescu: i don't even understand why does it parse rather than compile, for instance. seems a very nutty design decision.
phf: automake is distinctly not magic. it's a text interpolation macro system. i'm pretty sure there's not even a tree shaker there (i.e. if you check for gcc, you check for gcc every time something says "i need gcc". only reason it's not done a dozen of times is because there's also a check "did i check for gcc already?". never the less all those dozen gcc checks end up in ./configure)
mircea_popescu: in any case, the whole discussion is about "something like automake" in the sense of "gimme magic"
phf: there's also a dozen of different "opengl"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if the thing uses opengl, it doesn't care about gpu driver
mircea_popescu: not so, the deps are actually enumerated.
asciilifeform: perhaps because of the dire monoculture of african linux, perhaps not, i have nfi who has been building
asciilifeform: but there is not, in our universe, actual magic.
mircea_popescu: i dun care what the lines are per se.
mircea_popescu: ah, to clarify : i do not mean "automake". i mean the process.
phf: hence we have buildroot, equally unsigned, pretty sure ~nobody~ here read all of it, or relevant parts for the build system
asciilifeform: then see what you think.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: go an' try reading the generator.
mircea_popescu: the metaphor breaks down on / depends on not noticing that IT DELIVERS.
asciilifeform: automake stinks, and not a hearty, productive stink, like diesel engines of a maersk tanker, but the stink of liquishit in the diaper of profoundly retarded teenager smearing all over padded cell.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: automake doesn't build the gpu driver.
asciilifeform: distribute with the proggy.
mircea_popescu being the derps in question nine cases out of ten. no fucking way am i going to chase obscure deps on your obscure project.
asciilifeform: automake works when very carefully used, but the result is a massive turd that is autogenerated, that NO ONE will ever read, and does ???. with 10,001 system-specific #ifdef's.
mircea_popescu: ie, anything that's different from the variety of keymashing they're used to from "work"
asciilifeform: y'know, 'distribute exe' is ~even easier~ on the n00bz and rubes, but mircea_popescu doesn't do this.
mircea_popescu: so far the major problem is irc usage ; and gpg/deedbot a very distant second.
asciilifeform: they will find a way to set house on fire while running ./configure.
mircea_popescu: well then.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you understand the population of mouthbreathers out there is mystified by webirc page ?
asciilifeform: 'no you may NOT build this on vms and expect support' is the correct path.
asciilifeform: this comes from misguided refusal to standardize the build context.
phf: mircea_popescu: that's pretty much how it goes. hardwired paths because "fuck automake" or patching ./configure directly or all kinds of variations on the theme
asciilifeform: has to do with program being written by heathens who do not understand that ALL deps must be CARRIED !
mircea_popescu: they hardwired a bad path in there and i ran outof patience before finding the right magic knob.
mircea_popescu: nah, the retardation making it ~impossible to compile gpg 2."current" has 0 to do with automake.
phf: mircea_popescu: well, there's the primary file, which is your *.ac, which using autoconf generates your ./configure Makefile.in etc. ~those~ can be shipped with project and will work out of the box
mircea_popescu: what it does is exactly this : takes a situation where "fuck 83% of people" and allows them to install w/e it is you're making.
mircea_popescu: what i had in mind phf is, automake runs on project, keeps track of every bit of itself that it actually called, then inserts a pruned down version of itself somewhere, so you can ship the software with THAT instead of the whole automake.
phf: mircea_popescu: well, there's the primary file, where you say things "i need a c compiler for this project"
phf: i'm trying to remember what the current name is (which is where community retardation comes from) but yeah, aclocal is where you spec out just the things that you need for project
phf: mircea_popescu: it's already in there
phf: automake solves a bootstrapping problem in that common subtrate across all posix systems is "sh", so it's a tcl-like macro language built on top of shell. biggest problem with it (besides the typical communal retardation) is that nobody actually spends any time trying to understand it, before dismissing it
asciilifeform: automake is a rancid pile of shit and my first contact with any project that contains it is to shoot it in the head.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah. i have a problem in that i want to impose eulora as standard for republic code ; but nevertheless automake IS a humongo pile of perl.
phf: trb builds on three systems altogether, and it's still a pita
asciilifeform: but is there 'anyway' because the fungus in rms's left ear told him that a build script weighing a meg was somehow ok
mircea_popescu: yes, but : currently, the compile process is NOT the most difficult part of "noob getting eulora running". (turns out, interacting with irc is. lol.)
asciilifeform: thing is, 99% of what the thing does is wholly unnecessary for a given proggy.
mircea_popescu: yes ? and the alternative is what, hand-curated perl scriptsw ?
asciilifeform: and often dwarfs the proggy it is trying to build.
asciilifeform: 'automake' is the massive turd that runs when you ./configure .
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 01:02 asciilifeform: automake is a work of evil, first thing i did when sawing off the mpi lib is to nuke it.
phf: there's also bits (like riscos.c which i think is part of zlib and dotlock*), which i think are imported/updated from external sources
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phf: i like how they added a stub for GOST
asciilifeform: (there is a newer and yet-unpublished edition of this.)
phf: estream-printf got a whole blob for testing added including #ifdef TEST and emacs bindings for compile-command to do rapid testing from inside the file. how hacky
phf: zlib was patched up, very minor patches, but somehow it was necessary to bring in example.c "usage example of the zlib compression library"
asciilifeform: it is loathesome and is to die, no exceptions.
asciilifeform: automake is a work of evil, first thing i did when sawing off the mpi lib is to nuke it.
phf: none have code, except for bzlib that was brought into the codebase
asciilifeform: where did phf make the cuts ?
asciilifeform: phf: why is my diff 8M then.
phf: fwiw there aren't any file renames between .10 and .21, but certainly plenty of fluff like that
phf: mircea_popescu: i am, i am ashamed to admit it, feel comfortable in the warm embrace of apple's unix boxes, so transitioning out has been slow and painful.
asciilifeform: aha, gut the old box and put in modern chemistry.
asciilifeform: (for which there is NO chinese ready battery)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the cell comes out of the plastic box and separates from the proprietary connector and monitor pcb
mircea_popescu: i really wouldn't advise anyone to open a li-ion shit. why the fuck would you do that, next step is go to africa root through garbage for a living.
asciilifeform: out of the old.
phf: asciilifeform: http://www.myfixguide.com/manual/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/thinkpad-x1-disassemble-30.jpg you're right about the gsm,wifi
mircea_popescu: and in other koch, drepper, weimer news : http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbl5enj5Dm1qd2dcwo1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: even 5 yo "originals" suck when compared with good quality contempos. at least THAT much came out of usg's tesla sponsorship : the chinese now make much better batteries.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 00:23 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526079 << i watched thread and wondered how long an (allegedly) cunt-enabled ninjashogun would last in the field, vs a conventional one. seems like we have an answer.
phf: oh also i couldn't figure out how to get intel to work on x11, rather than radeon. it seems like it requires some boot time pokes, which you need hurd to execute (or else figure out how to run a random code from lilo but before kernel is loaded, etc.)
a111: Logged on 2016-08-21 00:59 phf: for all the jokes about russian vodka drinking, the amount of "functional alcoholism" i've seen in ussa is staggering. i literally cut contact with about 70% of my friends from my 20s, because they are slob alcoholics with no self control. so it's either health nuts who don't touch the stuff (or rarely) or else it's "50 minutes of квас and then race to the bottom" crowd
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-21#1526130 << ah usa, land of the phreeee, of the streets full of pubs with gigantic parking lots.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-21 01:06 mircea_popescu: the song goes "uite-asa as vrea sa mor, cu paharul linga mine, cu cobzarul linga mine, intr-o crisma din obor, sa scriu cind o fi momentul cu vin rosu testamentul. sa-i tragem o betie de pomina sa fie"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-21#1526139 << sooooooo apparently the cobza from mircea_popesculand is different instrument than the cobza from urkland. whod'vethunkit.
phf: i'll give it another try. i started using it prematurely, and was basically running around looking for a powerplug at the point where i really didn't want to deal with shit like that
asciilifeform: (the components have to be certified separately)
asciilifeform: switch off all of the genuinely-unused junk
asciilifeform: typically these can be killed in bios
phf: yeah, i think i figured out how to power down radeon and use intel, which solved some of the issues, but there's also a bunch of other peripherals, that remain powered-up even not in use, bluetooth, gsm, etc.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526079 << i watched thread and wondered how long an (allegedly) cunt-enabled ninjashogun would last in the field, vs a conventional one. seems like we have an answer.
phf: asciilifeform: there's some other package like laptop-mode maybe, that has a collection of shell scripts that live on top of apm and actually make do all the sensible things
asciilifeform: ( box entirely and wholly free of dbus and other poetteringism )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 20:43 phf: only thing i can't figure out with asciilifeform's killfile is how to get laptop to do apm related stuff. the main package depends on dbus
asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526025 << didja use the minus in USE ? i have apm working fine on the box whose build resulted in that posted recipe.
asciilifeform: and gnudiff is just about the dullest knife imaginable.
mircea_popescu: eh. they're ~as ineffectual as could be.
asciilifeform: but is very much worth a shot, esp. if you are prepared to run exotic (e.g., needleman-wunsch sequence alignment algo) difftrons, or the like.
asciilifeform: moved files, shuffled the shit, left and right.
asciilifeform: phf: koch, drepper, weimer (yes, i shit thee not, all three participated, grep for them in the credits) took great care to make this job as painful as can be.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 14:56 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 i came to this by attempting vdiff of gnupg 1.4.10 vs their .21 release from wednesday, and ending up with an unreadable 8MB turd, they moved/rm'd a buncha files.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf this is a good project but gnudiff is laughably dull knife for the job. see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525177 .
phf: asciilifeform: do you have a gnupg1 version, that can be used as a trb-like base? i want to go through an execise of reading a diff between some version that can be relied on with all the disclaimers and whatever's in the trunk
mircea_popescu: i can't recall another.
mircea_popescu: might be the same big-socialist-party candidate stupid enough to run on a panglossian ticket for first term.
mircea_popescu: yeah. damn that walmart for not spending money it doesn't have and "offloading" the police's job on the police at "Taxpayers" (=walmart) expense.
phf: it'll be someone else's fault till the very end
mircea_popescu: "oh it's walmart's fault". no bitch, it's your fault for thinking joe's daddy may not bitchslap joe's mommy, and teachers shouldn't keep a leather whip by the markbook just in case, and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: at some point libtards will have to wake up to the realisation that their implementation of freedom, for all its warts, has created a bunch of idiots, who are good for nothing but to shoplift and maaaaybe assault.
BingoBoingo: Anyways the big shift seemed to happen when they went all in on the grocery business and started eating the foodstamp racket from both ends
mircea_popescu: the derping is amusing. "oh, why do these people running the CHEAPEST store not spend money like the people running not-so-cheap-stores? ???"
BingoBoingo: Eh, walmart lost the part of their institutional memory that contained substantial cattle herding prowess around the time they turned into the town commons
mircea_popescu: so what the fuck IS the police there for and why the fuck is a private corp's job to "fight crime" and why the everloving fuck would they pay taxes if they're supposed to fight crime on their own anwyay
mircea_popescu: Robert Rohloff, a 34-year police veteran who has to worry about staffing, budgets, and patrolling the busiest commercial district in Tulsa, says theres nothing funny about Walmarts impact on public safety. He cant believe, he says, that a multibillion-dollar corporation isnt doing more to stop crime. Instead, he says, it offloads the job to the police at taxpayers expense."
mircea_popescu: the interbitcoin was a lot tighterly knit five years ago, chiefly because much fewer "business" tards.
mircea_popescu: oh ben_vulpes i thought you were on about the tardstalk thing. no, i know/knew who chsados was.
mircea_popescu: dumb shit, was all the rage among a certain set a few years ago.
ben_vulpes: the kapersky blog attempts to append to the pastebuffer with js anything copied from a page on "threatpost.com"
mircea_popescu: dun hate, the bitcoin community! is going to do things! ANY MINUTE NAO.
mircea_popescu: seeing how they're oft typed by hand, it's a common courtesy.
mircea_popescu: it's not that i don't understand the parts.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: levaquin and related antibiotics do the weird arm/stump/hand-ish birth defect.
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> why do people go to the trouble of making burn addresses that have valid checksums if such a thing isn't enforced by consensus rules? << Because you can either make baby or you can make baby but feed girl levaqin while baby is baking.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron it's enforced in the sense high-s is enforced : miners won't mine it.
BingoBoingo: <thestringpuller> So scrubs resort to dirty ass butane they can get from like home depot. << What they don't carry CO2 at your home depot? You live in the Capital of Home Depot!
shinohai: Just noticed I had used the <a> tags, replaced with BBcode nau
mircea_popescu: is there a reddit thing for jobz or such ?
mircea_popescu: phf dandys always end up faggots. it is the way of the world, ordained by orson scott welles.
thestringpuller: So scrubs resort to dirty ass butane they can get from like home depot.
thestringpuller: It's the _best_ way, but also triggers lots of alarms.
ben_vulpes: there are companies selling turnkey extraction systems even.
ben_vulpes: i haven't seen a vial prepared in any other way in over a year
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 17:41 thestringpuller: PeterL: partially. They use butane solvents for the initial extract on the east coast cause higher yields, but butane sucks.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525437 << do you barbarians not have the supercritical co2 process out there?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 12:40 mircea_popescu: so on other news, i am writing teh republic's "cia factbook", and on the matter of gdp i would like to have an estimate of the "fair market value of the total time donated to republic during 2015" in the estimation of everyone involved. detailed is better, but nothing over a page omg.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525034 << very belated, but i got hung up on the cost of time donated and the value produced
phf: here i can understand the ugh thinking. but this http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/sprezzatura-lino-ieluzzi-ranato-plutino.jpg ? in #menswear this is supposed to be the hight of male style. the fuck is wrong with these people.
phf: i was following menswear scene at some point, and could never understand the obsession with italian pigeons. there's an american equivalent, which i call kanye blacks, where straight black guys dress in tight fitting over the top preppy clothes (ascots and vests in aggressive patterns are usually involved, or odd mismatched shit like http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/pynk747/louis-vuitton-party-pharrell-751800.jpg), but at least
mircea_popescu: shinohai i need some noobs to labour for me in eulora. put a post up wherever it fits, jobs board if they have it ? saying that i'll pay 1 bitcent / 2 hours of work. first task is to get gpg key made and registered with deedbot after which install game and ask for acct. once they're in they get the first bitcent, after which they'll get tasks.
mircea_popescu: first case of koch-gpg / openshit-ssh keys sharing a factor. pity it's such a lulzy one, HOWEVER, it does make the "sks error" nonsense just a little more lulzy.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/the-%d0%ba%d0%b2%d0%b0%d1%81-bdsm-party/ << Trilema - The квас-BDSM Party
trinque: I'm off to the rainforest for now.
trinque: k, ha, a chick on out cruise said the same
mircea_popescu: listen : go to the president cafe or w/e it'scalled, the one right across from the teatre / across the street from that park, an' take some pics.
mircea_popescu: gotta edit the help huh. did you decide not to wiki ?
shinohai: mircea_popescu: I spoke with mod6 about a v-style wot viewer, now may be the time to expound upon said idea.
znort987: mircea_popescu: but how does one get to the comments entered along with ratings ?
mircea_popescu: speaking of which... who wants to make a visualizer already ? i tried emailing the guy months ago but no answer.
mircea_popescu: that's the mechanismcurrently ; mike_c- made a visualizer but it was never updated, so it has old/assbot data.
mircea_popescu: oh, and in other penis-friendly news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdesotIwvM1rl039yo1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: ftm, it's not even clear the cafe society was sunk by the titanic sinking or by it existing. but anyways.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo not even sure. the decay was evident in the 90s. might as well say the berlin wall falling did its damage.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the coolest thing about the inner peace deal is that when its time to flip the wrath bit, it means something.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i fear that the great cvas society went the way of the cafe society decades prior. people just don't get out enough / maintain social circle enough / whatever for it to wkr.
BingoBoingo prefered quiet desk drinking as is in the logs.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 21:17 mod6: the goal is and remains this: get the trb build infrastructure completed, once and for all. close out this portion of development with the completion of that (Makefiles) and a subsequent tying vpatch to mark the milestone.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526048 << just a thing for the longterm, mod6 . gotta start thinking in v-process terms. << sure thing, point taken.
mircea_popescu: anyway, re "face in salad", all the "party girl" pictures of passed out sluts are degrading NOT for the anglopuritan reasons, but strictly because these adult looking women apparently fail at being not-12.
mircea_popescu: but if you plan to do it for 50 years instead of the usual 30-something, your liver will give out most certainly.
mircea_popescu: the only thing being that life expectancy of "50 something" is too short to make it obvious.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-21 00:57 phf: but yeah self control is important, and i think a lot of people who do it through their lives turn into alcoholics
a111: Logged on 2016-08-21 00:53 phf: russians have a concept for it, "квасить" to drink socially in a controlled manner. failure at квас is seen as a character flaw. a grownup is supposed to go be able to go at it for like 5-6 hours without the embarrassing "passing out face first into the salad" eventual outcome. when you're in your 30s, you should be able to do it for 5-6 hours, then be able to freshen up and do work, etc.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-21#1526122 << this is part and parcel of the definition of humanity, fwiw.
BingoBoingo: Are you sure? Maybe he waited tables until sucking the right dick? Entertainment is a complex industry.
BingoBoingo: likely a holdover from other profession
mircea_popescu: no idea what's with the "i'm a professional waiter" arm position, but anywya.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Well jurov is a high quality lord. Excells at fixing things that nobody thought could be broken until alf tried using them. Jurov is a very patient lord.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: alf or jurov might appreciate the benefits they recieve from serving as an object of your worship just so long as you ask nicely. Both have long histories of lording.
shinohai: tmsr is the closet thing to a higher power I acknowledge true
mircea_popescu: ie, "this is how i wish to die, the glass by me, the kobza player by me, in an Obor dive, and when the time comes write my testament in red wine. let's get so drunk it shall be remembered."
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Higher power is an intentionally vague term. Any of the other lords of TMSR would probably be happy to serve as your higher power if you ask nicely.
mircea_popescu: the song goes "uite-asa as vrea sa mor, cu paharul linga mine, cu cobzarul linga mine, intr-o crisma din obor, sa scriu cind o fi momentul cu vin rosu testamentul. sa-i tragem o betie de pomina sa fie"
shinohai: But it does work for other folks, so that's good.
BingoBoingo: But now thank to the 12 steps I have stolen Inner Peace from my higher power, and I will curb stomp a bitch if they try to steal my serenity.
BingoBoingo: The SOP that pissed me off most was fuckers prancing around with their Dainty light beers while playing games like Beer Pong. Bitch if have that kind of muscle coordination left you ain't drinking.
phf: for all the jokes about russian vodka drinking, the amount of "functional alcoholism" i've seen in ussa is staggering. i literally cut contact with about 70% of my friends from my 20s, because they are slob alcoholics with no self control. so it's either health nuts who don't touch the stuff (or rarely) or else it's "50 minutes of квас and then race to the bottom" crowd
BingoBoingo: Anyways continuing to drink for me while also living in USSA at a point became unacceptable according to the risk calculator.