mircea_popescu: at which point they throw fit ; you hang up ; they finally pay someone to read contract ; come back all seethingly angry but trying to hide it and explain how inconvenient it is to them. you... amuse yourself with it as best you can.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [22:19:19] <thestringpuller> when our hot water heater went out, we discovered the tank was 50 gallons too small for our house which is why we were always running out of hot water. I srsly doubt any contractor does satisfactory work in any "home improvement" tasks
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#564 << which is why i love them. you sign contract, then you sign their faults report, w/e you call it. then they call you as if this is literally the first time this happened (because... it is) and try to pretend like they're geting paid. you explain that they are not getting dime one ; and that if they do not remedy like - right now, they are not getting sued because contractor comes with
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if he's in a typical american house, the conduit is solidly drywalled ~into~ the wall.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [22:10:50] <phf> asciilifeform: walls and wiring is so janky, there's always something sticking out that you can hook too
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#543 << in the sense that sane people place tubes and little boxes in the walls wtf.
asciilifeform: anyway this is one of the few pc compats ever made that could run on 4 'aa'.
asciilifeform: they have many uses. one is pictured.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [21:39:10] <ben_vulpes> the anxiety is crippling
asciilifeform: http://www.instructables.com/files/orig/FI8/1DGR/G68H9LWM/FI81DGRG68H9LWM.jpg << in other lulz.
mircea_popescu was reading pete d, ended up on "Knowing that on average humans have one testicle and one ovary, what are the odds that this human's left ovary is a testicle ?"
asciilifeform: that and the church schism.
mircea_popescu: i'm not so up to date on anglotard pretenders. was this the one with a permanent abscess secondary to inguinal hernia that consequently smelled bad and disgusted some euro princess ?
asciilifeform: the sheepskin thing.
mircea_popescu: that who the fuck washes his condoms!
mircea_popescu: now let's point out that the categorical differnce you apparently hallucinate midway through this single object ain't there.
asciilifeform: i dunno what kind of kids mircea_popescu knew, but i only destroyed the 4.5v things, not restored.
mircea_popescu: (yeah people kitchen-restored both of those! people tried to run the dacias on toluene, you can't imagine how industrious socialists get.)
mircea_popescu: i am proud to say i never to this day restored a battery ; and this includes the old days of communist romania, for both car batteries and the 4.5 volt zinc-manganese three-cell assembiles
asciilifeform: that requires there being more somewhere.
asciilifeform: in re: other household chores - ben_vulpes, phf, mircea_popescu - when restoring old lappy batteries, what's yer favourite way to cut through ultrasonic welds in the plastic ?
ben_vulpes: the chain mail is moderately more expensive but a /very/ effective replacement for such as steel wool.
ben_vulpes: ah i just realized that i forgot to include a solid three hundred word rant on the evils of nonstick in this context
mircea_popescu remembers the good old days when girls washed chemlab gear by hand. every day and every night.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: comment was 'my algo is essentially same, and should look into the scraping tools'
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the authors are rather competent fellows, at least the footnote dude is still active etc, drop ~him~ a line.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [20:30:04] <ben_vulpes> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542439 << so i've done my own digging and asked a few others to dig as well, and i can't figure out what "the code" i'm supposed to have is. grepping for 'footnote' turns up zilch in my copy of mp-wp. throw me a bone here?
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#515 << apparently i didn't include plugins. http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/mp-plugins.tar.gz contains footnote and recent comment, which is all trilema uses ; and all i expect you'd ever sanely want, except if you're in that dubious spot where caching makes sense, but not on a deeper level in the stack you might want a caching plugin. altogether dubious, this, for technically apt peo
asciilifeform: i still do it in thick rubber gloves, like grandfather did.
phf: in fact, it's best to treat interactions with u.s. infrastructure as a trip to the zone from пикник на обочине (or stalker for en readers), where rules of physics don't apply, nothing is what it seems and you're not guaranteed to come back alive
ben_vulpes: ah no, once every other week
thestringpuller: they must pay off regulators to pass it off as being "up to code" or something...
thestringpuller: when our hot water heater went out, we discovered the tank was 50 gallons too small for our house which is why we were always running out of hot water. I srsly doubt any contractor does satisfactory work in any "home improvement" tasks
asciilifeform: (panel is older than the house in its current shape)
asciilifeform: the one i'm posting from now, even had labels that refer to rooms which no longer exist...
asciilifeform: i dun think i've ever set foot in an american house where the breaker labels had a strong link with reality
ben_vulpes: regardless of the grounding, there should have been no voltage on the thing if it were actually wired into the laundry room breaker
asciilifeform: it is only possible if the ground - isn't
ben_vulpes: which shouldn't even be possible if the circuit were disconnected.
ben_vulpes: just tingles off the housing actually
ben_vulpes: fun thing about this house, when i was rewiring the laundry room with sane 220 plugs, i threw the breaker for the laundry room and STILL ZAPPED MYSELF
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes if you're the sort of fella who buys houses and builds compartments for the dogs and sons and etc. (and you are), buy a fishing set, you won't regret.
phf: asciilifeform: walls and wiring is so janky, there's always something sticking out that you can hook too
asciilifeform: it's why the americans made hollow walls to begin with! simple place to shove the wires.
asciilifeform: how the hell do you wire anything without 'spelunk in walls' ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why not ? sink is right on the floor, or wat
ben_vulpes: the particularly annoying thing about this current house is that i don't see a clean way to install the garburator.
ben_vulpes: when i packed 5 people into a rotting victorian proximate to the eng/art schools
diana_coman: for 1 sec I thought ben_vulpes actually *washes* the dishes ; as in using sponge+washing liquid, no dishwasher
ben_vulpes: the anxiety is crippling
trinque: Alpha or not, I’m not a stat. And that’s perhaps the most an individual can hope for. << aha. who the fuck cares? now leave me alone.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:01 mircea_popescu: you know you already have the code.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542439 << so i've done my own digging and asked a few others to dig as well, and i can't figure out what "the code" i'm supposed to have is. grepping for 'footnote' turns up zilch in my copy of mp-wp. throw me a bone here?
ben_vulpes: scavenge heat, don't suck power off the main shaft.
asciilifeform: of the 1,001 pitfalls of riding the tanker, the magic blue mist is apparently not one.
asciilifeform: and there is ample room for it.
asciilifeform: unlike the grass-cutter petrol 2stroke.
asciilifeform: anyway mircea_popescu is mistaken: http://www.first-hand.info/image/fig(1.1-9).png << 2stroke diesel motor does not use the crankcase for compression.
asciilifeform: because it is dumb in 1,001 other ways ?
asciilifeform: i see this blue every day, from the barbaric lawn machine engines etc.
mircea_popescu: oil gets arbitrarily fine dust. hence the blue tinge of eg truck exhaust
mircea_popescu: generally how the marine 2stroke works.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz from the abstenence only club, http://66.media.tumblr.com/a7d8a4be38a47b93f818b69aa99219d7/tumblr_nmy5zaylR91tyr1zwo1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: oh by the way asciilifeform , TWO STROKE ship engine. because yes, when you have the space and need the efficiency, it beats 4stroke.
ben_vulpes: the jit economy is in for a shock
ben_vulpes: oh man and the video of containers toppling
asciilifeform: 'The local port authority has reportedly launched an investigation into the incident, with local newspapers reporting as much as $250,000 in damages.'
asciilifeform: did they ever invent insurance in gypsylandia ?
ben_vulpes: second best part is how the princess ship just hauls ass out to sea
ben_vulpes: best part is the new jersyite "this is bad" refrain
ben_vulpes: the lng train chugs along: https://gcaptain.com/first-ship-to-ship-lng-bunkering-completed-in-sweden/
asciilifeform: if i'm buying six antimatter bombs from thestringpuller, and nominally they cost 1000btc each but he realizes that he owed me 1000btc of iridium from asteroid, and we settle without creating btc tx, this is honest - but is not a btc transaction.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'offchain transaction' is a harmless thing so long as it is not fraudulently presented as 'in bitcoin'.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-06 15:11 asciilifeform: when you transact with btc the way it was built to be transacted with, the problem does not exist.
thestringpuller: you know the ones who hate "offchain solutions" for those very reasons of not creating on-chain transaction
thestringpuller: well there is a subset of folks who want bigger blocks for reasons you specified (for coffee), but still think physical btc is "good idea"
thestringpuller: those same folks also want bigger blocks to pay for their coffee
asciilifeform: they go 'i'm gonna try to make a string of bits that tells me if someone copied it' and end up in same idiot spots as copyrasts making 'copy protection' etc.
asciilifeform: the reason i even started this thread is that there is imho a 'sleep of reason breeding monsters' among folks who partake in 'physical coins' and similar.
asciilifeform: whereas walking with the paper is an invitation to everybody to knock you over the head and take the coin.
asciilifeform: if you don't trust, then no deal.
asciilifeform: if you trust the counterparty, he pgp's you an addr and you pay to that.
asciilifeform: even across the street.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it also isn't clear to me why anyone would want to walk around with a paper privkey.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Details in my inquiries and thoughts. My inquiry was more along the lines of "offchain" accounting in physical world. Answer is: priv key on paper.
asciilifeform: bitcoin is moved between holders by issuing a tx. attempting any other method, under the guise of 'transacting in bitcoin', is fraudulent of the sender, and idiotic of the receiver.
asciilifeform: it is altogether unclear to me how 'more descriptive' would help. subj is a dead end.
mircea_popescu: the only question remains, how long ago was thestringpuller actually replaced with the markov device.
asciilifeform: the hologram, faux crypto, etc. are scamatronic in that they offer 0 pill against sc4mz0r, while being quite unnecessary when trading with trusted party.
thestringpuller: I was just wondering in context of WoT, does it make sense then? or is it still braindamaged.
asciilifeform: whereas with 'physical coins' people imagine they have some sort of protections. which is poppycock.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: understand, 'physical btc' is dumb because it makes promises that are physically impossible to keep. if you simply shove sheet of paper with privkey at someone, you at least have no illusions about possible pitfalls of doing it.
a111: Logged on 2016-01-17 21:13 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it works by ben_vulpes, sultan of brunei, and king of saud, sending each other pgpgrams with signed chits of how many tonnes of plutonium each owes the other.
asciilifeform: btc doesn't even make sense in the given picture.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: lemme ask this. Lets say TMSR existed on meatspace island. ben_vulpes mod6 phf asciilifeform are all small business owners. Would you trust exchanging "phsyical btc" with them and only them, or still only in "one shot scenario"?
asciilifeform: and you haven't been 'paid in btc' until the coins land in addr for which you have sole control of privkey.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: yes if you're playing single-shot 'dilemma'.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: you won't.
thestringpuller: in the way human centipede is educational?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it isn't that the shit stinks less, but that latrine with pig is educational, vs the other kind.
thestringpuller: really!?!?!? just because one latrine is dirt and the other is marble you don't care about the smell of the shit?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: and you ask why I'm trudging through the latrines?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: one of.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the curriculum, if you will, of 'sane hardware' consists of public rapes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when, e.g., mod6 goes into the forest to teach woman how to shoot a turkey, he presumably does not do it because the individual turkey was important.
mircea_popescu: literally. there are more of these vomit kernels "published" on social media than there are readers.
mircea_popescu: the part you don't seem to at all grasp is that ~nobody cares.
asciilifeform: if i had time, i'd buy the thing and publicly rape it (differential power probe) but i haven't the time.
asciilifeform: but with moar faux 'proof' slathered on (it signs a helloworld with the privkey every time it is switched on, etc.)
mircea_popescu: whoever sells fire is selling the sizzle :)
asciilifeform: 'Yes. It's like a piggy-bank. You must destroy it to spend the funds. At first that seems expensive and wasteful, but it's a key part of our security model: you can trust a sealed Opendime, and it's obvious when it's been opened.' etc. is a lie.
asciilifeform: but also from the sheer antipedagogic (is there better term?) effect of the thing even being taken seriously by anyone.
mircea_popescu: it's not worth it to third party to copy for one dollar ; and otherwise the supply floats at the pleasure of the issuer.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the protection here is that if indeed this item is to be used "like a dollar bill", then that's protection enough.
asciilifeform: emble or convert into human readable form any part of the Product or Software or create derivative works based on, or any competitive or emulating software, service or solution using, any Product or Software; ' << moar lel
asciilifeform: 'Restrictions. You shall not: (a) except as expressly permitted herein, reproduce, duplicate, copy, disclose, sell, resell, sublicense, distribute, assign, transfer, give away, loan, lend, lease, publish, pledge or create a security interest in the Software or use the Software other than in connection with the Product on which it is included; (b) modify, port, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, unbundle, repackage, decompile, disass
asciilifeform: but rather it is a carefully-designed weapon against the buyer, who pays for, aims, and fires it with own hands...
asciilifeform: i quite enjoy reading about machines that are ~intrinsic~ scamatrons - i.e. the design cannot possibly be described as 'honest mistake', or even product of ordinary stupidity
asciilifeform: it is not especially hard to make physically-indistinguishable device where i know privkey in advance before giving the 'uncopyable' item to a chump.
asciilifeform: gotta love the neverending attempt to make water non-wet.
asciilifeform: 'Can I re-seal after breaking the center? No. A permanent change is made inside the flash memory of the processor.' << which i can't remove and replace with identical-looking one, containing same procedure, exactly why...?
asciilifeform: 'There are a number of ways to verify the device; first, you can click on a link shown in the index.htm file present on the device. That link includes a signed message, that only an Opendime with access to the private key can generate.' << who wants to buy one of these things and see what the nonces look like.
asciilifeform: ( generally there are few enough active sc4mz0rz peddling hardware that i normally take the sweat to read their output, it is educational )
asciilifeform: whole thing linked here solely to illustrate the kind of braindamage without which promisetronics could not exist. it occurs to no one to ask ~what ensure that it behaves like-so~.
asciilifeform: re: earlier link, https://github.com/opendime/opendime/blob/master/unsealed/advanced/rngverify.py << if you read this, it is trivially obvious that the manufacturer can trivially supply a secret (presumably a pill against their rng) that would allow a user to silently spend the contents of a 'sealed' drive. ~how~ is left as exercise for readers.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/the-human-latrine-pig/#identifier_9_68858 << notice the identifier part. images work the same way, eg class="aligncenter size-large wp-image-68863 in that same article.
mircea_popescu: you know you already have the code.
ben_vulpes: how'd you arrange for the unique-over-blog handles?
mircea_popescu: this'd be the exactly counterpart to the very common "mp is in heaven and i am in hell, life is so unfair" ever-so-common approach. "oh look, i thought i too had a blog ; except check out what a proper one actually does!"
asciilifeform: https://opendime.com << moar great promisetronics. 'There is no way to input data as the drive is read-only. Also, a new random nonce is signed each time you power up device. You can also plug/re-plug to get a new nonce and matching signature.' etc.
ben_vulpes: other than creeping featuritis
phf: mp's footnotes have a nifty feature, where each footnote is unique over the publishing history. would be hard to do it manually
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: just generate the necessary html on own box prior to posting
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it isn't clear that the thing needs to be a plugin
asciilifeform: (well, other olds.)
asciilifeform: http://frass.woodcoin.org/rip-the-news-1704-2013 << in other noose, funkenstein_ reports 'death of news'. lulzy.
adlai: ARE WE THE GODS OF OUR UNIVERSE?
adlai: anyway, it turns out that there is 'free energy' to be scalped off markets other than s.mpoe[RIP]. who'da thunk?
adlai: what do horse quarters have to do with the price of eggs in wottistan?
mircea_popescu: "one day, orlov got indigestion from a pea dish, and died. krilov, hearing such, died too. spiridonov however died all by himself. and his wife fell from the cupboard and also died. and his children drowned in a pond. and his grandmother took to the bottle and started hitchhiking."
shinohai: thy rod and thy staff they comfort me
phf: they are much better with thought control, out there in jew land. former ussr engineers, what do you expect.
adlai: sadly the archiveception waned oiotoshic
adlai learned that before pressing the clock, he counts again liberties of each group. this is as relevant to irc as it is to pokemon.
asciilifeform: ( does adlai post by morsing on the wall of his cell ? he hardly ever speaks these days )
asciilifeform: phf and possibly other folks will find v. toth's ~entire www interesting. it is one of these quite educational but at same time mega-depressing 'these people aren't made any moar' affairs.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger there's this deep pastoral root of his specific flavour ; he sounds in a sense like twain, and like jerome k jerome, and like the arab absurdists.
mircea_popescu: phf the moral being that communities belong enslaved ; and not in control.
asciilifeform: (per my estimate of the transistor count, i'd say that a 100% cycle-for-cycle clone could handily sit down in a $100 fpga and leave plenty of room for, e.g., modern colour vga, etc.)
asciilifeform: at the time i was fixated on ~cloning~ the machine and was quite disappointed with the docs, there is minimal discussion of internals.
asciilifeform: i have the dead tree version, it was given to me as a gift by an old and tired ex-mit fella
phf: Framedragger: alf's archive link ~is~ bitsavers, it's just not like 1 pdf. it's about 200 of them, so you kind of need to narrow it down a bit
asciilifeform: Framedragger: these really wanted to be read on the machine, it was the original and - imho - still best of all time 'context doc' system
Framedragger: phf: aha, bitsavers, noted, thanks! alf's archive.org copy should do just fine.. there's even plain text format, doesn't appear to be garbled
phf: Framedragger: entire set of symbolics documents is on the bitsavers, i can track down relevant bits for you, but it'll take a bit, since i was reading it on a lispm
asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, one of my recent digs concluded with the sad discovery that nobody on the planet is any longer supplying microcontrollers with uv window eprom in appreciable qty.
asciilifeform: which is why any item that is of interest here, ought to be picked up and nailed to the floor, as i nailed trb's deps.
asciilifeform: phf: there are two and precisely two kinds of heathen proggy: the kind that's been poetteringized, and the kind that will be.
phf: indeed, and it's also very idiosyncratic, to the point where i don't think anyone but Fare can work on it. on a whim i switched my system to asdf 1.* (last release before peanut gallery took asdf over) and not surprisingly everything works, ~except~ when project explicitly relies on asdf3 functionality, which is exclusively test hooks, uiop and hardcoded "needs asdf>3" requirements
phf: trinque: i was being fanciful. i used most of the ircbot for a111, so had to at least stackoverflow read it ;P
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 14:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the main cause of all the turmoil whenever we discuss this particular thing is that you keep confusing syntax and meta-syntax. but it's finally clearing up, because eg. "where i could, e.g., (require "a591af34" is starting to sound like sanity, which is to say, that you import primitives rather than collations.
Framedragger: # half the file during "curl | sh"
Framedragger: mein gott. decided to deploy one of the newer 'productivity web apps' for work, official install is through docker, and *obviously* official docker install is `wget -qO- https://get.docker.com/ | sh`. BUT LOOK at the end of that legit2000.sh is:
mircea_popescu: and if you CAN'T do this, then the solution is to go, read. i also can't speak maori, but this doesn't mean i sit around and make "maori sounding" noises.
mircea_popescu: in sanity, you are supposed to a) be acquainted with functions, objects, structures, etc by name ; and on the grounds of having read and wrote them until they revealed all their secrets, no "we got to second base" bullshit ; b) import them, and them only. which is why "require library" is so fucking idiotic.
mircea_popescu: the concept of "require" as "this particular primitive" is one thing ; but the way it's practiced and the way fucking galls me is as "this particular collection".
mircea_popescu: the concept of "library" as "this collection of primitives" is meta-syntactic, and strictly personal idiomatic. that a bunch of anglotards try this thing where they "all mean nigger in the same sense - and everyone always does!" is just you know, anglotards being anglotards.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the main cause of all the turmoil whenever we discuss this particular thing is that you keep confusing syntax and meta-syntax. but it's finally clearing up, because eg. "where i could, e.g., (require "a591af34" is starting to sound like sanity, which is to say, that you import primitives rather than collations.
asciilifeform: and if it is found on my disk, then it loads, otherwise asks permission to look in various preprogrammed places
asciilifeform: trinque: read the thread. and, for that matter, the tinyscheme thread. mircea_popescu has a very particular idea of what 'abolish libraries' entails.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 02:39 mircea_popescu: create two copies of this "asdf" platonic solid, place them appropriately, they will be distinct items. and proceed.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542190 << asdf is the "system" manager, wouldn't be needed in scrollcode world
trinque: iirc ben_vulpes did too, so I retract the "anyone"
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
trinque: there is no small amount of lines anyone will read?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 02:36 phf: the patches in question, http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot . i actually have no idea how they overlap if at all.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542182 << they overlap in that one contains a class ircbot, which is then extended to be a logbot (i.e. one who reads and writes from postgresql)
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i was referring to the pinoy pit of 'bitcoin' 'news', rather than the salt mine thestringpuller toils in.
thestringpuller: I was knee deep in a project that used all 3 a couple days ago. I'm still washing off the stench :(
thestringpuller: Also not eating latrine pit, I have to work in it. Not all of us are blessed enough to have kooshy uranium mine job like asciilifeform or mats. As for the type of work >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-23#1488309 << is a good description.
asciilifeform: what sort of work do you do , thestringpuller ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: lulzy pinoy campaign. appears to promote the idea that there is such a thing as being successfully double-spent against as a user of actual bitcoin.
thestringpuller: double spending as a service >> http://archive.is/n7rMW << i really wish the VER-ified crowd would stop saying unconfirmed transactions are a yoose case
asciilifeform: 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!'
asciilifeform: i still dun get how the thing worx without downloading entire blockchain
asciilifeform: in other lultronics, https://github.com/elendirx/web2web << i liked even 'freenet' moar. the endless xerocopies of xerocopies of ...
mircea_popescu: (the guy being impersonated is kinda interesting, a sort of rhodesia.fr)
mircea_popescu: in the way I can, because itЎЇs the world general business language which can simply understand in anywhere in the world, well I am the son of the former president of Cote D'Ivoire (ivory coast) in west Africa Mr. Laurent Gbagbo."
mircea_popescu: and in other jours de la francophonie news, "Please carefully read. Sorry for the inconveniences it might occur to you, maybe if youЎЇre not interested in this my proposal I will be offering to you now, and again also I will be very sorry if my English writings do not meet your expectationЎЇs, please try to understands my country is officially a French speaking country, but I have to use English language for writing you
deedbot: http://thestringpuller.com/2016/09/coppin-louie-loafers-just-to-thug-in-em/ << Pull Your Own Strings - Coppin Louie Loafers Just to Thug in Em
mod6: <+asciilifeform> anyway this is not a bug report for mod6 << no worries either way. more than anything, I want to help you use it successfully. :]
asciilifeform: phf: there is 1 and only 1! pill that cures .
mod6: so here's my using 'init' to sync trb, and trinque's ircbot, then using both. trb with the default 'patches' and '.seals' and ircbot with the non-default: http://dpaste.com/2EFW6G4.txt
asciilifeform: but with ~different~ project the second time
asciilifeform: i dun load the updates
phf: bordeaux-threads? it's being updated, last commit is june 25, 2016. main problem though is that you never know when it's going to get the cffi treatment, or slime treatment, etc.
asciilifeform: mod6: i'm thick. point finger to the important bit plox
phf: (asciilifeform: have you tried reading bordeaux-threads that cl-irc depends on? that thing is nasty. kind of defeats the whole "here's a clean irc bot vpatch" if you're pulling dodgy, constantly changing dependencies)
asciilifeform: in practice the semantic boundry is fictional.
mircea_popescu: anyway, blessfully there exists this magic librarizing where "kernel" is split from "userland". which can be the border for a while.
asciilifeform: ah then yes.
mircea_popescu: which is what i mean : take that library apart, merge it into the bot, be happy, it'll be one project as god intended.
mircea_popescu: if someone comes up with a way to sort in linear time, you a) READ his way b) UNDERSTAND his way and c) IMPLEMENT it. yourself. that's the golden measure. and ideally you come up with what he came up verbatim. or else you have a discussion on the table!
mircea_popescu: you keep the thing you read, and paste it where you need it.
mircea_popescu: this is not a problem in the constraints presented. "create two copies of this "asdf" platonic solid, place them appropriately, they will be distinct items. and proceed."
asciilifeform: well no, i read it. but once, and not every time some joker switches the tabs to spaces and pastes etc.
mircea_popescu: libraries ; the modern coder's excuse for not reading code. "it's a LIBRARY!!11!!! dude. you don't read that!"
asciilifeform: and row the raft.
mircea_popescu: check him out, adept of fits in head, worried about not being able to find the broken code HE SHOULDNT HAVE HAD. pshhh
asciilifeform: i had a great b00k as a kid, where the headsman ends up having to chop own head. i wonder if phf or mircea_popescu remember what it was.
mircea_popescu: create two copies of this "asdf" platonic solid, place them appropriately, they will be distinct items. and proceed.
mircea_popescu: they are not mutually dependent on one thing. logbot depends on asdf-logbot ; ircbot depends on asdf-ircbot. these MAY be identical, but the fact that they are identical is a people-knowledge, not a machine knowledge.
phf: asciilifeform: i remember when i was talking about asdf, you were saying that the problem has been solved by v. in this case the split exists explicitly because logbot/ircbot are mutually dependant by asdf, but no in any v way
mircea_popescu: once. altogether.
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as a "library" ; and there is no such thing as "code reuse". put everything in a directory and build it.
mircea_popescu: that's the thing that has to fucking die, "libraries" in the linux sense of the term.
mircea_popescu: because that's the fucking point : for a project to be one project. not two.
phf: the patches in question, http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot . i actually have no idea how they overlap if at all.
asciilifeform: rather than my attempt to summarize.
mircea_popescu: "they were trinque's logbot and the base lib it was built on" << this is what you said. it is different from what you are saying now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how's the split spurious? there are multiple bots, based on trinque's core set of routines
mod6: and then, you understood how to do such a thing, even if, ill advised?
asciilifeform: mod6: i did, in the end.
mircea_popescu: the fact that you tried to build a badly packaged project (spurious split in two) has ~nothing to do with mod6 's bootstrapping tie-in.