trinque: but it will be a new emacs, and I will regard it with the same resentment
gabriel_laddel: what, you want to design the loper device using punch cards?
asciilifeform: which the next gabriel_laddel tries to abstract against.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: look, we can and do hack around and get things done in broken software everyday. If an environment exists in which one can WITH A SINGLE PROCEDURE CALL write the "world" out to a USB/CD/whatever it should be a plenty stable platform for whatever computations are required for new hardware.
mircea_popescu: (the "with software" part, i mean)
asciilifeform: if gabriel_laddel does not care to listen to asciilifeform's observation, it is strictly his own problem. but here it is, for phreeeeee: you cannot abstract against broken software, with other software. or at all.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel dun mind the esteemed lords, they just hate young men for the obvious reason.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: the purpose of masamune is to provide funds for the republic (by selling them) and a development platform from which to build new hardware.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-19: [16:25:37] <gabriel_laddel> It is a revolt against G-d and all that is good and true that there does not exist a platform, even on UNIX that one can buy for lisp development.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: if you think such a thing is remotely a good idea, and that the crud will not irreparably spill out from under the 'skin', i got a bridge to sell ya.
mircea_popescu: phf in his defense, nobody has any fucking patience to fuck with computers. if anyone did, they wouldn't be learning how to program.
asciilifeform: because it would not be then necessary
trinque: asciilifeform: they broke musl
phf: well, gabriel_laddel doesn't have the patience to grok the system he's hosting on from the user perspective, how's he going to upkeep it from the dev perspective?
asciilifeform: and i don't get any of these mysterious wtf's.
mircea_popescu: phf not exactly back, but only in the narrow strict sense that we are not alone.
asciilifeform: trinque: care to document the crater ?
gabriel_laddel: or the mirrors or or or
gabriel_laddel: trinque: my masamune builds are all from the old masamune.
mircea_popescu: so far other than the theory of lisp, there's no known way to do this other than "somone does the bruteforce for you on an exact copy of your machine"
gabriel_laddel: when I run into the friend with another masamune machine to we can now have a networked CLIM party
gabriel_laddel: dood whatever, I'm running this example between two masamune machines and adding it to the masamune manual.
mircea_popescu: but yes, your dream of "manpage magically adequate to the system it's on" is not entirely without dreampower.
gabriel_laddel: self-documenting hardware/software is the ~ bare minimum ~ of civilized computing.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: the only way to learn that is by aptly named brute force.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: if you get tired of having to toggle the nic to autocrossover, get out a pair of scissors and make an actual crossover snake
mircea_popescu: that's how they reproduce, right ?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: no voodoo here, to turn on the autocrossover you gotta reset the nic. but on sane os this DOES NOT REQUIRE REBOOT omgwtf
shinohai: "at least he's up to date with the latest in computing technology from windows/apple/mit etc" <<< lolz
mircea_popescu: i'm sure a lot can be done to bleed the computer socialism from inside.
phf: he's having these problems, ~because~ reboot is his debugging strategy
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: the scary thing is that it worked.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160919/#137 << at least he's up to date with the latest in computing technology from windows/apple/mit etc
gabriel_laddel: phf: something as simple as "network some computers together with ethernet and observe the sexpr from one draw some stuff on another" should work 100% of the time and be clearly documented.
mircea_popescu: i would expect it's in the official republican gentoo package ?
gabriel_laddel: while we're here - does anyone know of a script that downloads the whole of the gentoo documentation?
gabriel_laddel: trinque: this is where ALL of my time gets wasted. Trying to figure out what fking flag to send some unix BS that should be clearly documented for THE MACHINE I AM WORKING ON.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i just tested the thing i pasted from my notes, on the box i'm presently sitting at, and it did not work. but this latter one - did.
asciilifeform: on the listening end.
gabriel_laddel: are there any decent irc channels for this sort of thing aside from ##networking?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: with the example you've provided I send the "foo" string and nothing occurs on the other side. If I remove the "-u" option from nc, (UNKNOWN) [10.0.0.20] 8002 (?) : Connection refused
scriba: vulnerabilities involved to the public. Without this information the public simply assumed t
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-19: [15:34:12] <asciilifeform> in other lulz, 'In the last two weeks many security professionals have praised Apple for reacting lightning fast to the PEGASUS threat that has been actively exploited in the wild. This praise was given because the parties involved kept samples from independent 3rd party researchers and did not reveal any detailed information about the kernel
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160919/#90 << the trend is going to continue ; separation between "soviet truth" and truth is uncurable once introduced.
asciilifeform: imho it belongs there.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-19: [14:54:32] <deedbot> http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ << Trilema - How to participate in the affairs of The Most Serene Republic
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-19: [14:52:01] <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: and bleeding'em from outside (for the sake of argument positing that they ~have~ an outside) is available to weak/poor/haremless/etc. ??
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160919/#85 << yes. as per the mitochondria example, merely not being there significantly bleeds it.
gabriel_laddel: I'm up to date on the logs, and respectfully disagree.
trinque: particularly the recent lisp machine thread
gabriel_laddel: It is a revolt against G-d and all that is good and true that there does not exist a platform, even on UNIX that one can buy for lisp development.
gabriel_laddel: Lisp coders are refugees because they act like little girls.
trinque: this "the system is icky and I will only learn enough about it to infect it with my own" is precisely the mentality that has *kept* lisp coders as refugees in foreign operating systems.
trinque: the route command for one
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I can easily connect one lisp to another over wifi, but want to force it over an ethernet cable
trinque: might want to study networking basics before writing another line of code.
gabriel_laddel: also wtf now my machines cannot ping one another..
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm assuming he doesn't want to use a library, hence the netcat
asciilifeform: (if you're using a crossover snake between two nics there is no conceivable reason to use anything but udp datagram)
gabriel_laddel: If anyone knows the netcat command that would do this, I'm all ears.
gabriel_laddel: Am currently trying to send a string from A to B (must be over the ethernet cable) so as to make networked CLIM.
gabriel_laddel: I have two machines connected by an ethernet cable that can ping one another after I setup ip addresses on them via "ip ad add 10.0.0.10/24 dev eth0" and "ip ad add 10.0.0.20/24".
shinohai: But I'll do 2-3 more throughout the day, letcha know results later.
asciilifeform: lel, the victi^H^H^H^H^Hcustomers complain when you don't patch, and when you do...
asciilifeform: and the incidence of such a thing at a konsooomer-friendly price point is ~0.
asciilifeform: crapple box is quite comparable to a stainless steel prison toilet - it resists whatever attempt at modification, either by user or whatever shitware he syphilitically encounters
thestringpuller: crapple does the whole "planned obsolescence" bs
asciilifeform: (either until the iron mysteriously fails, two weeks out of warranty, or for decades)
asciilifeform: while crapple box, with its various familiar faults, chugs along more or less eternally in the condition it left the crate
mod6: they're all shit, basically
thestringpuller: mod6: considering the above and your research gathered via the #bitotter project, did you ever discover a reasonable mobile device? or are they all shit.
asciilifeform: VE-2016-1828 in May 2016 without doing a security review of the code in question. In only 20 lines of code THREE codepaths existed that allowed UAF. Apple fixed only one of those paths although the other release() methods were clearly right next to it in the code...'
asciilifeform: hat the PEGASUS surveillance malware was using completely new kernel vulnerabilities to takeover iOS devices and that Apple heard about these problems for the first time mid August 2016. Unfortunately after having reversed what kernel vulnerability has been used by the PEGASUS surveillance malware a completely different picture emerges: The kernel vulnerability known as CVE-2016-4656 was only still in the code because Apple patched C
asciilifeform: in other lulz, 'In the last two weeks many security professionals have praised Apple for reacting lightning fast to the PEGASUS threat that has been actively exploited in the wild. This praise was given because the parties involved kept samples from independent 3rd party researchers and did not reveal any detailed information about the kernel vulnerabilities involved to the public. Without this information the public simply assumed t
thestringpuller: "Our payment processor Coinbase.com was exploited and all Bitcoin and keys were stolen from the KeyVendor bot. These total to about $15,000. This was not, however, a direct security issue with the bot, but rather with Coinbase's merchant services."
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ << Trilema - How to participate in the affairs of The Most Serene Republic
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and bleeding'em from outside (for the sake of argument positing that they ~have~ an outside) is available to weak/poor/haremless/etc. ??
mircea_popescu: needs a very strong, and well reinforced, and old identity to be able to masquerade externally. take your examples from biology : viri manage to bleed the cell from the inside ; but it's risky business. mitochondria similarly thought - and look at it today!
mircea_popescu: i will say however this "rezistenta prin cultura" / "socialist states can be bled from the inside, too" is exclusively for the very strong, ie powerful, ie dudes with own arsenal and harem. it's self-delusion, and of the worst sort, to think vulnerable young male could accomplish or should attempt such wonder.
adlai: my memory is insufficiently content-addressable to locate the exact article but i'm quite sure it's trilema
adlai: inner-mp quotes/paraphrases real-mp: "somewhere your girlfriend would never imagine visiting, but the stripper you met last night can't wait to go"
adlai: out of curiosity, where would you recommend going, once i accumulate the means to do so on my own terms? you don't seem too pleased with your homeland or your current abode
mircea_popescu: well sure, i'm not specifically interested in the execution as a matter of detail.
mircea_popescu: it's a cultural space, like any other. just like any other, it has to satisfy a minimum bar to be allowed to continue to exist. it has failed to pay its capitation, and so consequently it has no furhter place in the world.
adlai: socialist states can be bled from the inside, too
mircea_popescu: not just the country. the whole thing. tell your mother she's a dumb whore, tell your father he's a total fucking idiot and you know fewer people you despise more, burn down everything in hebrew you own and never mention the accursed shithole ever again.
adlai: ok i see, by 'sticking around', and 'left', you mean leaving the country?
mircea_popescu: but as i don't figure you much for the "bitch, you will clean my boots or wear a new kippah anchor point, right in your fucking forehead" type, i'd have expected you'd just left.
mircea_popescu: derps dun wanna extend the personal space. has exactly nothing to do with you, your choices being either burn the derps down or die.
adlai: maybe i'll put up a bigger fight next time, although i'd rather pick smarter fights.
adlai: several of the other people in the ward had 'run away' after a home visit, and got brought back by "men in white suits"
adlai: it seemed like less effort to go through whatever process they wanted. i didn't realize at the start that it would last more than a couple days / week.
adlai: aha. well, honestly i thought at the time that i'd just stormed out permanently, only found out hours later that i'd been turned into a fugitive
mircea_popescu: how do you justify, eg, not joining the palestines in bombing the place, to yourself ?
adlai: it's literally the second-to-last thing you typed... but here you go! http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-19#1544790
mircea_popescu: would you reference logs like sane people ? i'm not going to grep for the sake of extracting context for your lines.
mircea_popescu also remembers wanting to make points to inept bureaucrats with delusions of self importance. their whereabouts are unknown hence.
ben_vulpes: i go for camo and not being noticed these days.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544387 << nothing near as exciting, i knocked an office toy (magnetic paperclip people) off a doctor's desk while proving a point, which in his book counted as "violence!!!"; then i left the meeting, because they were wasting my time. sufficient cause, in this wonderful medical system, for an involuntary commitment. as one friend interpreted: "pissed off the wrong people"
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 20:13 mircea_popescu: so i guess that's ANOTHER F for adlai ; to celebrate his first day back to "all day ircing".
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544441 << that's a very short day! also, the 2nd F doesn't make much sense, i was pointing something out to phf specifically.
adlai: BingoBoingo: also in the footnote, 'establish' needs an -ing or -ment
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "for as another aspiring businessman once wrote before his life had become unmanageable" << nothing can happen before had. you mean before became ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "what dat" is a pregnant americanism, as for the second sentence, you need a rewrite to parse?
ben_vulpes: the underlying joke of 'abject failure' is that was never even remotely a purpose
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/another-crack-in-ether-handlers-fume-hood/ << Qntra - Another Crack In Ether Handler's Fume Hood
mircea_popescu: and in the same old news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/eebca2fe316a4dc7862f3103bcf0a52b/tumblr_nm36utql4G1tkuag2o1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: oh and also, "especially if you're the hardworking-yet-broke, but-somehow-stupid-enough-to-be-family-having type like myself." is the story of a generation. write a blog for them, they will come.
mircea_popescu: and in other news, a proper postmortem piece re "I attribute a large part of my abject failure to stuff cubicles with commodity labor and churn out software all day long to how willing" when ?
mircea_popescu: "What, as we say, dat? Could Uber be competing to own the vertical and horizontal in a space and failing to bite off an element of the business model that profitability is predicated on the ownership of?" << ben_vulpes can you say that again, but in a language, this time ?
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/the-hilarious-unprofitability-of-uber << CH - The Hilarious Unprofitability of Uber
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
phf: there was a scifi story where a ship landed on a planet, lush, beautiful, with a cow like creatures inhabiting it. so they taste the cow meat, and they hang out, until, and i'll spoil it for you, they all turn, one by one, into same case
mircea_popescu: but the bovine quality of the inhabitants of that land (btw, it's pretty clear by now north america destroys the soul : if you recall the spanish ran into the same useless pussies back cca 1500 as the marauding hordes would meet today. apparently it dun matter if redskin or allegedly paleskin - if you live in north america you turn into buffalo) has little to do with some sort of eternal logic of armsmastery.
ben_vulpes: title song off that album is rather good.
mircea_popescu: and in other non-body-shaming fat-tolerant porn, http://67.media.tumblr.com/1122614d76711992a4c8c8d5d44f81ba/tumblr_nf6yb42fb51tmnngto1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: that'll do then.
mircea_popescu: i mean again as in you should have started with that ; and i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt pretending like you did and i didn't notice.
BingoBoingo: Nah, because tradition. However do add responses for !~tradition1, etc. Also add a reply for the seekrit 13th step.
mircea_popescu: the logic of parochisteel.
mircea_popescu: still, even thinking about it, both dagger and knife are insane weapons for the lone operator. unless with a group of friends, preferably sons of the people running the city as seein in italian renaissance for example, you're asking to be killed.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> lafond never heard how caesar died or what. << Historicaly common, but was uncommon among the fauna local to him historicaly.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "the logic of steel" wtf is he about ? << Early book of his.
mircea_popescu: "the logic of steel" wtf is he about ?
BingoBoingo: sop is also what you do with a mop to get water off the floor
phf: also sop is to ask for a pm from anyone who's speaking (i.e. awake and at keyboard) at the moment
a111: Logged on 2016-09-16 19:47 pete_dushenski: 'I was dead-set on finding a house with a garbage disposal, or "garburator" as our sorry ("Sorry!") neighbors to the North call them,' << l0l! love the souble dorry. also, i've never lived in a house or condo with a garburator and may never.
yr: just noticed - that the real luke-jr?
phf: anyway, i should probably write the first version up, while it's a lul between attempts
mircea_popescu: so you know, there's no benefit to be acrued through hiding hacks from view.
mircea_popescu: phf no point in being too ashamed of the early pubescence of the republic. if that's the best that can be done then that's the best that can be done, others may be able to improve on it which is welcome, but there's complete immunity from the very hollow somethingawful approach of "your tobacco uses pot lol". nobody cares, really, what something awful may say or think on any topic, chiefly because they're fundamentally idiots.
phf: so the vpatch becomes something like "getting baz to work^L(load "foo") (load "bar") diff ... foo.lisp ... +... -... etc diff bar.lisp ... +... -..."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i understand the dream. just pointing out that it didn't work once before.
phf: so i use it to put a patch description, but if the section has ^L\n( or ^L\n; then i just execute everything between ^L and diff ... after the patch has been applied
mircea_popescu: phf maybe im just behind the times. for all i know they use javascript internally all over blizzard now, whatevs.
phf: err, before the first ^diff ...
phf: so my v based deployment had a hack, vpatch by diff artifact has a prelude section, that you can put whatever in. it's basically space before the first --- line
phf: ben_vulpes: actually right now i'm heathen-ing it, by using quicklisp too. problem is btcbase depends on 35 different projects (like hunchentoot pulls 8 deps, cl-irc 2, etc.) so cmucl version i had all 35 hand patched to various degrees. the right way seems to be giving all those project the v treatment: pull them in, strip them of fluff, genesis, etc.
asciilifeform: it was re 'let's keep tinyscheme-like thing in l0 and no other x86 progs anywhere'
a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 21:40 mircea_popescu: iirc in the early days of c-as-replacement-for-straight-asm it's exactly how compiler became a thing. "dude... fuck hardware."
BingoBoingo: In other broken sold under the name of the working http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1544180
phf: hmm, good thing that guard was there..
phf: that was not the right command..
phf: oh i thought they use lua for mainloops, but actually i'm not sure. it might just be all scripting. one "fast" lua project that i know, which is luke gorrie's "snabb switch", uses luajit though
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [18:22:30] <asciilifeform> phf (and any other interested folk) if you have a bit of spare change, buy yourself a 'pcengines api2', either 2 or 4gb model, it's this comp that comes with schematics. then we can play.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#77 << with the time, being the main qualifier. if you have the time and willing to promise commitment thereof but can't afford, whine and someone will surely gift you it.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [18:14:14] <asciilifeform> i actually considered all of this in '07 but rejected because 'idiots will patch it to do jit and bring back all of the evils'
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#73 << there's a fine steel hatch to lock that down with now ; so you can transition to not doing it because x86 sux.
mircea_popescu: i mean because "don't do this, don't use it there, don't do this way". in any game there are parts you could do in fucking xml. that you write those in lua, or lisp, or anything does not make the anytihng "fast enough for gaming", much like the 14yo doing the parts of "slut" that don't include fucking doesn't make the 14yo "old enough for sex"
phf: you mean because there's luajit and no wot?
mircea_popescu: iirc in the early days of c-as-replacement-for-straight-asm it's exactly how compiler became a thing. "dude... fuck hardware."
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [18:00:04] <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-18#1544569 << i've been toying with the notion of 0 compiler
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#45 << now THIS is certainly a nice idea that the shitty hardware utterly precludes.
BingoBoingo: yr: Don't worry much. You aren't the first to be shock by just how much is going on here, but so far you are the most polite.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [17:55:52] <phf> back when i knew the guy, i had a plan to stay in his house for a couple of weeks, wean him off his meds and depending on how that goes, give him acid to poke at his brain. he had some odd blindspots in his thinking that i wasn't sure if they were result of medication, or inherent. somehow multiple people were all up in arms against my plan, so i will never
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lol, guy tries to do a nice thing, discovers the size of the republic, ton of birkcs.
yr: where can I read about the real bitcoin foundation?
BingoBoingo: 1FundZy7m7b8begbh9haCguKJcAdFopRJ9 << Supports the work of the real bitcoin foundation. But yes many sites.
yr: I wasn't aware there was more than one
BingoBoingo: yr: WHich one of the sites?
yr: is there an address for that?
yr: was just expressing my appreciation for your collective work, and would like to provide a small donation for hitting the site up once in a while for my informations
mircea_popescu: sad fucking nonsense, they hung mengele for much less.
BingoBoingo: Anyways on the bipolar they swing from anti-convulsants to antipsychotic depending on what's trendy that year.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [17:51:09] <phf> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544418 << i thought psychosis was pretty common with bipolar, during the manic or depressive phases. at least in usg they prescribe antipsychotics to bipolars, though i'm not sure if that's always the case. supposedly you can take them on their own, because they have mood stabilizing effects
a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 17:51 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544418 << i thought psychosis was pretty common with bipolar, during the manic or depressive phases. at least in usg they prescribe antipsychotics to bipolars, though i'm not sure if that's always the case. supposedly you can take them on their own, because they have mood stabilizing effects
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#42 << the us clinical practice is literally insane. they also diagnose psychosis and prescribe medication in prepubescent individuals. psychosis in such is a strict biological impossibility.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah, and they're not directly wrong, which is both rarte and helpful for this purpose.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [17:24:27] <phf> the advantage of something like a vop in general, is that you can emit part of the assembly that you're trying to get working in isolation first, can emit it and call in realtime (i.e. in a repl), can have multiple versions of until you get it right, etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 17:24 phf: the advantage of something like a vop in general, is that you can emit part of the assembly that you're trying to get working in isolation first, can emit it and call in realtime (i.e. in a repl), can have multiple versions of until you get it right, etc.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#39 << sure. but obviously having both ends helps debug subtle corners and improves your control over the whole matter.
BingoBoingo: Kinda the point. Their meanings can be reinterpreted over a lifetime for those sick folk who need it, because capable of only unhealthy relations with booze et al.
asciilifeform: phf (and any other interested folk) if you have a bit of spare change, buy yourself a 'pcengines api2', either 2 or 4gb model, it's this comp that comes with schematics. then we can play.
asciilifeform: it is at least theoretically possible to resist.
asciilifeform: i actually considered all of this in '07 but rejected because 'idiots will patch it to do jit and bring back all of the evils'
phf: i guess the trickiest part then is the "x86-aware liquishit", which is enough assembly subset to make it useful, but not enough to construct an escape hatch
asciilifeform: phf: jmp but strictly in the interp's state machine.
asciilifeform: betcha there is even a magic bit in amd docs that'll force no-inst-fetch-out-of-l0.
asciilifeform: lock up all the x86-aware liquishit in a few 100kb of hand-asmed kernel and never touch again.
phf: no jit either?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 17:27 phf: (an example is https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/cmucl/cmucl/blob/master/src/compiler/x86/float-sse2.lisp#L1426 x87-set-floating-point-modes prelude with keywords says some handy things about what's being emitted to put it in context, but then (:generator 6 ...) is your regular asm, mov xor ...)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-18#1544569 << i've been toying with the notion of 0 compiler
phf: back when i knew the guy, i had a plan to stay in his house for a couple of weeks, wean him off his meds and depending on how that goes, give him acid to poke at his brain. he had some odd blindspots in his thinking that i wasn't sure if they were result of medication, or inherent. somehow multiple people were all up in arms against my plan, so i will never know..
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 19:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#562 << fwiw there's no psychotic ouverture of bipolar. 1st case mostly sounds as usgistan "let's call it something"/
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544418 << i thought psychosis was pretty common with bipolar, during the manic or depressive phases. at least in usg they prescribe antipsychotics to bipolars, though i'm not sure if that's always the case. supposedly you can take them on their own, because they have mood stabilizing effects
phf: (an example is https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/cmucl/cmucl/blob/master/src/compiler/x86/float-sse2.lisp#L1426 x87-set-floating-point-modes prelude with keywords says some handy things about what's being emitted to put it in context, but then (:generator 6 ...) is your regular asm, mov xor ...)
phf: the advantage of something like a vop in general, is that you can emit part of the assembly that you're trying to get working in isolation first, can emit it and call in realtime (i.e. in a repl), can have multiple versions of until you get it right, etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 00:43 mircea_popescu: honestly, i think the people who abstract-and-code are idiots anyway. first, you do it by hand. then, you automate what you did. this way a) end up with something that actually works, and even without much design skill is well designed, by mother nature's help ; b) avoiud the trap of "i spent five engineer hours to save myself thirty three minutes of secretarial work over the course of ten years."
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 21:07 mircea_popescu: phf to answer the "why asm" thing : because if at issue is to obtain a correct f(lisp) so as it produces the same asm as gcc(c) then we'd better have a good example of target "same asm". his approach is judicious.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544485 << it was a knee jerk http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539368 on my part. i was thinking why not write and use own high level assembly emitter, but thinking about it it would not have improved discoverability, because the task was all or nothing anyway
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544461 << i already had it implemented for xref, so just needed to comment out (not (annotation-back-link-mkj-p annotation)) in the right place
mircea_popescu: no, in a sense of course they offer credit - they don't really want to be buried in bills.
asciilifeform: 'As preferred customers, they often took Chapo's drugs without putting any money down, then paid the cartel only after they sold the product. This might seem unlikely, given the pervasive distrust in the underworld, but the narcotics trade is based on a robust and surprisingly reliable system of credit. In a sense, a cartel like Sinaloa has no choice but to offer a financing option, because few wholesale buyers have the liquidity to
mircea_popescu: introducing the record holder in premature ejaculation : http://66.media.tumblr.com/32bd411ad3a4103855bf42bfdae04df6/tumblr_nly8xk8XxV1u96awpo1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: wouldn't be the first guy with a great idea that then got totally beat to a pulp by trying to put it in words.
mircea_popescu: so, yeah. like lamport all you want, the piece is obnoxiously idiotic in too many places to fucking count.
asciilifeform: we know what the absence of effective 'knownothings' looks like:
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 22:29 mircea_popescu: anachronism is universally the sign of an uneducated mind - in the blogger's case because he fails to account for the obvious case that "what if the only reason nothing happened is BECAUSE those people were there then ?" ; but in the general case as displayed by lamport also. it is ridiculous to pretend to science, logic and reason, and then to turn around and tell a story of the past in the terms of "here's what's left once
mircea_popescu: "Responding to an email message is a simple operation with a simple mathematical description." ok, i'm out. fuckhead has not the first inkling as to what he's talking about.
mircea_popescu: this corroborated with his dubious indictment of some sysadmin who didn't feel like fixing his computer 20 years ago paint the guy in pretty ugly colors.
mircea_popescu: and also lamport didn't birth his mother.
mircea_popescu: astrology as a historical human behaviour eminently is NOT connected to ulterior developments such as astronomy, nor caused by them.
mircea_popescu: we reinterpret it strictly as an extension of the present".
mircea_popescu: anachronism is universally the sign of an uneducated mind - in the blogger's case because he fails to account for the obvious case that "what if the only reason nothing happened is BECAUSE those people were there then ?" ; but in the general case as displayed by lamport also. it is ridiculous to pretend to science, logic and reason, and then to turn around and tell a story of the past in the terms of "here's what's left once
mircea_popescu: , the irish came and nothing bad happened.
mircea_popescu: "When you get systems that are too complicated to understand, people respond with superstition. Thousands of years ago, people didnt understand astronomy. So superstitions aroselike praying to appease the spirits thought to be responsible for an eclipse." << this, for the record, is idiocy of the ilk of that-blogger-whats-his-name hurr-durring about how EVIDENTLY us nativism / knownothing movement was wrong because look
mircea_popescu: ^ guy just likes to paste those in for some reason ; they don't seem to carry meaning.
framedr_ghetto: btw if (tm)(r) is being used to denote those "trademark" signs (and not tmsr), it may be noted that (tm) is for an uregistered trademark and (r) is for a registered one. but i guess the reflexive-ironical use of these makes it fine :p
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 21:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#1053 << you know, making a nic is not the end of the world.
BingoBoingo: In other Quora these syphilitic pussies and their love of $20 chicom firehazards https://archive.is/MMN6v
mircea_popescu: it even has the advantage of being perhaps the most feared item by lizard court, aside from nuke detonator.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 17:54 asciilifeform: consider how the thing expects real-time (1000s/sec) interrupt handling, but ALSO has 1,001 places where you must busy-wait for some register bit to flip
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#1053 << you know, making a nic is not the end of the world.
framedr_ghetto: "extract purchasing-power-sterling and get outta there" OH WAIT
mircea_popescu: oddly, i know lots of people in a1, but none of them plan to stay
mircea_popescu: ah yeah. i wouldn't wanna go there.
framedr_ghetto: mircea_popescu: glasgow. eh, i'll be outta here this month next year, i think. weather and, you know, the whole wanna-be-empire-failed-island thing..
mircea_popescu: phf to answer the "why asm" thing : because if at issue is to obtain a correct f(lisp) so as it produces the same asm as gcc(c) then we'd better have a good example of target "same asm". his approach is judicious.
framedr_ghetto: there's also a brazilian guy who keeps his dirty socks in the hallway; apparently it's a pattern and not a single instance, too
mircea_popescu: did they burn it ?
framedr_ghetto: wine and cold weather and joys of subletting a flat to local folk.
mircea_popescu: the place all roads lead to.
framedr_ghetto: the one day when btcbase was being updated and scriba was wanted, it failed. :/
mircea_popescu: hello from rome. how is the ghetto ?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 17:38 asciilifeform: and ended up with a thing that, per the data sheet, ought to work, but never did.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#1001 << this is a very useful sort of datapoint. didja write / are you writing an article with details ? publish the resulyting driver ? discussion ? etc ?
mod6: im gonna get me one of these xilinx boards.