asciilifeform: then -- or now.
mircea_popescu: jsut as there was a way, years ago, for "bitcoin developer community" to impress me.
mircea_popescu: anyway - the point remains, there are REASONS i / we discredit things. there ACTUALLY WAS A WAY for "bitcoin community" on tardstalk to impress me.
asciilifeform: notice how 'civilians' (reddit folk etc) still react in disbelief when they read about mpex having worked as-described ? they will sooner believe in telekinesis, ufo proctologists abducting 50yo d00dz, divine healings, etc.
mircea_popescu: but the "long term thinker" theory utterly fails when confronted with daily reality.
mircea_popescu: so yes - there'd be need for either 40 reddits ; or else you know, for less amphibian brains.
mircea_popescu: understand the forces at work here - some dork famously promised to pay anyone commenting in his thing 1 bitcent if trump won. then trump won, and he ran off over a debt of ... 25btc, accumulated from a "massive" 2500 comments.
asciilifeform: perhaps these people are slightly more 'long term' thinkers than appearances let on ?
mircea_popescu: no. i would have obviously been forced to end it eventually. however, they didn't even come fucking close to giving me a run for my money.
asciilifeform: would this 'mineral' coin remain, waiting to be dug out, in the game, if sizeable population of these folx actually appeared to look for it ..?
asciilifeform: (1 btc / mo. will buy a starvation-level existence in the cheaper parts of usa. supposing you also know how to convert it to zimbabwistan currencies.)
Framedragger: the *banners.txt's are my partial cleanup, *_err_scan.log's are the original stderr's (with some junk in them). but i will clean this myself later. and siphnos.mkj.lt is where i'll host phuctor-related data. (it's on a separate unused vps, got an 'ok' from $work for now.)
mircea_popescu: there's no manual labour, it's a computer.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: btw banners: i'm yet to clean up the logs (some time next week or thereafter), but just in case you're eager (prolly have lots on yer head tho), here they are: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/ ; s1 has 13 files corresponding to the 13 bundles; s2 is from the additional bundle i sent you later (the re-scan + additional hosts). together this constitutes whole ipv4.
asciilifeform: well that's for the intro. but does it smell sufficiently like 'meal ticket' ?
mircea_popescu: which means that if i charged them 50k a year for four years in advance - they'd be about even.
mircea_popescu: so then. by this token working eulora would have paid them MORE than what going to college would have paid them.
mircea_popescu: use the same cutoff.
asciilifeform: it depends -- must i first learn the alphabet ?
mircea_popescu: it was an epic, explosive proof of the whole "poor people are poor because they are stupid, and for no other reason."
asciilifeform: if it actually contains a 'min wage' apparatus inside somewhere, that these folx could theoretically pay rent from, i take it all back.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your fixation with "a penny" doesn't help however. it wasn't a penny, it was more than they make at home.
asciilifeform: this is why 'convert stupid folx' is imho a total and irredeemable dead end -- because they are not ~that~ stupid, and - while knowing that beelzebub created them to die in a uranium mine at age 19, there is instead this scam where they get 'picket fence house' and a 'ford.' so why should they volunteer for the mine.
mircea_popescu: "des le debut, la cybernetique a accepte ce que toute theorie de la technologie doit refuser : une classification des objets technologues menee par des criteres preexistants et selon des genres et especes etabils."
asciilifeform: the 'min wage' folx do this thing... where was the thread, with the 'we make a home!'
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 22:39 mircea_popescu: speaking of this, and re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569760 : a) it was actually exactly the same usg pays via min wage (out of private pockets, but w/e, usg is the REAL government, not the republic hurr durr) and b) it made people do sensible things such as making pgp keys. a certain ammount of this "wash yourself" "read a book" basic training will have to be done forcibly, because ontogenesis may follow philogenesis,
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-20#1571565 << 'min wage' as found in usa and elsewhere is a complex and long-term parasitic relationship, not a d00d who throws a penny at a bootblack and expects something other than derisive smirk
mircea_popescu: all good jokes are persuasive, necessarily. the problem however is fundamental and ineluctable, or in simondon's own terms
mircea_popescu: yes, the one with the "i'm going to describe the object according to genus and species i already have because lulz, my mom fucked herself to the moon"
asciilifeform: (it is, incidentally, the idiot word salad 'fandom' of ~this~ 'cybernetics' that stalin banhammered, and not some other, practical thing)
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 22:46 mircea_popescu: Framedragger and i suppose the point should be made, that yes wiener-cybernetics is an exercise in being ridiculous.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-20#1571570 << which wiener cybernetics ? the one in the book, with the analogue feedback loop machines etc ?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger and i suppose the point should be made, that yes wiener-cybernetics is an exercise in being ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: so you know, yes i do spend my money to make the world a less shitty place but plox don't take this as some sort of free radical ready to be combined with your stubborn refusal and yield whatever nutty interpretation. it ain't that free a radical.
mircea_popescu: more importantly c) intelligent folks know about it but dun seem inclined to try it ; perhaps because preconceived notions (oh, a game is below my intelligence and i couldn't be happy with a black woman), perhaps for whatever other cause.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 16:46 asciilifeform: iirc there were earlier instances where mircea_popescu and other folx tried to recycle'em into something: the incident with the rental posters (who was that..?), the 'get epsilon btc to make eulora player', possibly other instances of beehive-fucking
mircea_popescu: speaking of this, and re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569760 : a) it was actually exactly the same usg pays via min wage (out of private pockets, but w/e, usg is the REAL government, not the republic hurr durr) and b) it made people do sensible things such as making pgp keys. a certain ammount of this "wash yourself" "read a book" basic training will have to be done forcibly, because ontogenesis may follow philogenesis,
shinohai: Was the only guy I ever dealt with.
shinohai: In my few dealing on otc, I was fortunate enough to already know someone trustworthy there.
mod6: what's the old saying "scammers gonna scam"
mod6: "hey kid, mow the lawn."
shinohai: The guy that tried scamming Eulora promotion moved on to scamming via faucet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1674878
mircea_popescu: kinda why they spent the 90s fascinated with fad diets and "issues". content-free "people".
mircea_popescu: it's soundly set on the footing of "i have no philosophy, just some hobbies to pass the time". americana entire, moreso than picket fences.
mircea_popescu: "no matter how you do your hair, you still gotta wake up when the alarm rings on monday morning" === "the real world always wins in the end".
mircea_popescu: cyberpunk as understood by bartle-likes is very different from what you think about. in this dork's mind it's strictly us and a consumer affair, of the 70s. like disco hair, us-gayness, pulp fiction or mechanical pianos.
Framedragger: iirc theres an essay on technical object, i admit to not reading it in whole, it's in mah list tho.
Framedragger: sure, i guess i catch the drift
mircea_popescu: well... unless you have a camera that works, i have no idea. the pigeons ~themselves~ aren't book-ready.
mircea_popescu: but the important point here i guess is that mpex is a service ; not a publisher. you're essentially asking "how do i include some pigeons in my book"
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i'm putting up a webpage which mentions phuctor, and i want to give reference to S.NSA as the corporation which produced phuctor. how do i link to mpex?
asciilifeform: in the latter - i have nfi. SHIPYARDS!11111
asciilifeform: in the former - yes, d00d like mircea_popescu who can do arithmetic and write down the alphabet, say, is citizen, and locally born monkey - not.
asciilifeform: there are really 2 'trumpreichs', the imaginary, spherical one, which is friend of tmsr, sound money, etc. and the physical one, that is (to borrow from lenin) 'we smashed the old shithouse and now gotta build new one using the bricks of the old'
mircea_popescu wonders if by trumpreich rules, he is more us citizen than colored woman born there.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's clear bannon has no more use of the gop than of the dems ; trump's intelligent ouvertures to libertard reps evidently bear his signature. you're going to get your brown shirts next year chances are.
asciilifeform: and what is this 'rebuild' nonsense. where is the smoke of the ovens cremating the megatonnes of defective hyooman materiel ?
mircea_popescu: whole thing has to be scrapped and rebuilt, they're a laughingstock not for actually competent players such as romania, but for utter nobodies from fucking arfrica / latam
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no way around it - us signals is more of a joke than stalin's were in 1938.
mircea_popescu: now the part where the financial markets afford a once-in-a-century opportunity to rebuild is sound ; but the part where jacked up "iron works and shipyards" are the answer is ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: the point where hillary talked to the WRONG set of 9bn-worth corps with 9 employees, ie the failure of the usg to elect its candidate has exactly to do with the elites deserting it in favour of the republic, ie http://trilema.com/2016/to-be-clear-hillary-clinton-lost-the-presidential-election-on-june-16th-2016/
mircea_popescu: and the point where the conservatives are likely going to hate trump more than the liberals ever did, two years from now.
mircea_popescu: the point where the murdoch clan is going to probably try and reconstruct "conservative" fox into a "centrist" bullshit built around that mispelled megan kelly harlot (really, ambitious news anchor who lied about the network boss "sexually harassing" her to try and take his place, what a fine clinton!)
mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/SG5uV << this is actuallty a pretty decent read (by virtue of the anodyne jew "authoring" the piece out of mostly verbatim bannon material)
asciilifeform: and i always liked to imagine that a pl/i programmer dies like the proverbial talmudist dies, when a volume of the megalithic encyclopaedia of crapolade finally falls on his head from the top shelf
asciilifeform: there were (and for all i know, still !) periodic conventions where folks would demand MOAR featuritis
mircea_popescu: the thing everyone-but-us fails to comprehend is that the ~only way in which a relatively simple functional system becomes the de facto standard is through a lofty body of pretense declaring a much more complex and dysfunctional system "the standard".
mircea_popescu: "Allocate an array and free the middle third? Sure! Why not?"
asciilifeform: 4. watch those schmucks over there, they built a working machine. and now nobody needs'em, they dun MATTER. 5. we will not make this mistake
mircea_popescu: here's the whole story of standard : 1. hey, wouldn't it be great if we mattered ? 2. so if it'd be great, then therefore we matter! 3. our not mattering is wrong!
asciilifeform: (btw when you throw acpi crapolade out of linuxbios, the binary shrinks 2x)
asciilifeform: it -- notably -- worx on all x86 boxen, unlike the acpi 'soft reset' crapola which -- not so much
mircea_popescu: (pro tip - triple fault resetting is STILL in the linux kernel.)
mircea_popescu: or, for that matter, look into why triple-fault switching rather than using the god damned reset signal ended up a programming standard.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, exercise for the curious youth : find out why the 21st pin on the system bus in your fucking machine can be set to zero.
asciilifeform: mccarthy, ritchie, forrester, gone... when the good doktor knuth finally kicks it, it'll be finally time to glass the place
mircea_popescu: and in other things that apparently if incomprehensibly still exist, http://www.litespeedtech.com/index.php/solutions/shared-hosting-users
asciilifeform: (actual p2p chat between kons000mer d00dz behind NATs was impractical then just as now)
asciilifeform: eh they were all 'manyto1', the 1 centralized aol box. (at least in the case of aol messenger, which was popular in usa at the time)
mircea_popescu: but the notion of handling 1to1 rather than 1tomany and manyto1 is not without merit ; and it allowed them to protect the users from many problems of irc, which is why it blew past irc usage by 2000
mircea_popescu: no. in the same exact sense facebook is.
asciilifeform: in the same sense where ftp is
mircea_popescu: also from a cultural pov perspective - it was the first one of many things ; including the first im.
asciilifeform: the ~servers~ were centralized
mircea_popescu: or at least was back when the jews owned it, no idea now. iirc aol actually bought them
mircea_popescu: oya. most people involved on the business side still have and daily use icq
asciilifeform: the central box still runs?!
mircea_popescu: nah, icq was cool. to this day it dominates the pronz, but back in the 90s it was simply the thing./
asciilifeform: shinohai: 'slack' is simply today's 'aol messenger', 'icq', same '90s centralized chatroom item. sufficiently similar, on surface, to irc, that i'd imagine folks would be used to the concept ?
mircea_popescu: which is kinda the point - the context must be a) narrow and b) poking you in the eye. the problem with irc, and es-fucking-pecially irc as practiced here is that the context is vast, so vast it makes a circle much further out than the general myopia can perceive.
mircea_popescu: i don't think the general public is mentally capable of using irc. it just doesn't fit the reddit/disqus/chatroulette/4chan/whatever thing
Framedragger: not saying it's worth the effort to dig!
asciilifeform: (almost the entire mendeleev table, in fact!111)
asciilifeform: and there is gold and uranium in ocean water.
Framedragger: tbh i think there still are some small subreddits with people. couldn't confirm tho.
asciilifeform: i got acct on reddit 10 years ago now... still remember when there were ~people~ there
Framedragger: i think that many of them do not, in the sense that e.g. you understand "conversation". i don't know. i got that picture when i had spent time on reddit.
asciilifeform: do they not have conversations in meatspace..?
asciilifeform: them peanut folk are surprisingly shy
Framedragger: the public outreach efforts are commendable
asciilifeform: it is likely from a http://webchat.freenode.net i left in reddit thread somebody put here the other day.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 04:41 mircea_popescu: "no, i found it in a plastic bag in the alley behind the hotel where i used to work."
mircea_popescu: hm. actually - somebody should help ver along the lines of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570491 as it occurs telling the poor man ain't gonna do much.
mircea_popescu: somebody should tell ver the 2010s blue shirts are no longer fashionable.
mircea_popescu: lol you autotweet them ?
shinohai smacks jhvh1 for not tweeting the latest Xtended.
mircea_popescu: "Allocate an array and free the middle third? Sure! Why not? Multiply a character string times a bit string and assign the result to a float decimal? Go ahead! Free a controlled variable procedure parameter and reallocate it before passing it back? Overlay three different types of variable on the same memory location? Anything you say! Write a recursive macro? Well, no, but Real Men use rescan."
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i love the "immanent trumpreich" bit. kant ftw.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 05:10 pete_dushenski: re: diff jump, largest pool now down to 18%, 2nd place at 17% according to https://blockchain.info/pools. top two pools had ~50% just six months ago when famous bbet tx was 'lost'. competition is heating up within the not-so-monolithic chinese cartel. nothing divides and conquers like btc y'know.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 03:29 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the difference between eyes and electronic sensors on cars, ofc, is that you know when eyes stop working before it's too late. either way, if trumpenreich is to restore full employment to amerika, abolishing the minimum wage will make a full-time chauffeur affordable to anyone who can also spend $100k on a tesla or equiv.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 02:43 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i actually planted a bunch in romania, for the flowers. << Different salvia. Tripping balls salvia has sparse shitty flowers if it flowers.
pete_dushenski: "it would still be unsurprising if they gave up on their fiction1 and began reporting magenta, dove gray, or old hot dog as their exchange rate" << lol.
pete_dushenski: my only defense of that likely fraudulent chart is just that a warped measuring stick is at least wrong in a consistent and predictable way. this assumes all sorts of beneficence on the part of bc.i, however.
ben_vulpes: is there any good reason to trust that chart?
pete_dushenski: re: diff jump, largest pool now down to 18%, 2nd place at 17% according to https://blockchain.info/pools. top two pools had ~50% just six months ago when famous bbet tx was 'lost'. competition is heating up within the not-so-monolithic chinese cartel. nothing divides and conquers like btc y'know.
trinque: Framedragger: ^ yo dawg, log somewhere you can read it; the information here is entirely useless to me
pete_dushenski: tis possible. tis also possible that the world won't be worse off if they car-crash themselves off the face of it, be it by their own hand or that of their robot overlords.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I don't think you understand the proportion represented by "most" in that usuage. We are talking about a mass economically crippled by their various "employable if X" bullshits.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: 'most' isn't really an argument now is it. nor was it my point. talking solely about folks buying $100k cars, they're better off sifting through resumes to find a non-retarded driver than shipping their cash to musk et al., what with the rapidly sinking obamanchor tied around their weedy necks.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: 'the groand tour' isn't available outside us, uk, and i think oz for another month so... nope. looking forward to it though. you ?
BingoBoingo: Not to mention most muricans are broken in their temperment, unsuitable for service work where they interact with customer or customer/employer and require herding employer.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the difference between eyes and electronic sensors on cars, ofc, is that you know when eyes stop working before it's too late. either way, if trumpenreich is to restore full employment to amerika, abolishing the minimum wage will make a full-time chauffeur affordable to anyone who can also spend $100k on a tesla or equiv.
pete_dushenski: didn't realise that jhvh1 also adopted the calculator until saw it in-chan yesterday. that sneaky shinohai ! bots directory updated accordingly.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... and it did... zero. << Or you were wired for addiction to that weirdo substance before trying? Lacked the apperception to realize was tripping balls.
shinohai: I had the trinque experience of being completely out-of-head for like 10 minutes
asciilifeform: fwiw i once ate some of its liquid extract (it was at one point freely available in usa, was literally the only type of dope i could physically get !) and it did... zero.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i actually planted a bunch in romania, for the flowers. << Different salvia. Tripping balls salvia has sparse shitty flowers if it flowers.
asciilifeform: there are books even on flying mig. but there are afaik none on flying mig under a non-liftable sea bridge (there is photo of this!). 'cons-free lisp' resembles the latter more than 'sop' operation.
asciilifeform: one of the difficulties of the student is that most 'adult' lisp work took place in the era before 'must publish everything', 'open sores', etc.
asciilifeform: trinque: afaik only the leaked smbx lm sources.
trinque: asciilifeform: any reading material on the "cons-free" subj?
asciilifeform: trinque: peruse the docs for your particular lisp, most of'em provide knobs for 'dangerous' manual manipulation of the 'auto gearbox', if you will
trinque: it makes me less anti-lisp and more in favor of using some kind of namespaced wad of memory which I can trash all together explicitly.
trinque: and dupes are most likely to come from recent messages (say a queue server died before noting that the message was sent)
trinque: my list contained identifiers for things coming at me from a queue, where the queue may shit itself and send dupes, but with a maximum possible age of message that is duped
trinque: please explain to me how a list operation as simple as that in "list processing" language is not right in the middle of the groove of the language
asciilifeform: trinque: yer doing destructive ops and then wondering where gc was?!
trinque: simplest example I can come up with is that I was consing thing to the front of a list, nil-ing things off the back
trinque: I'm sold on the structure of the language, but I have had times where I wonder why the fuck the gc hasn't kicked on yet, find folks saying "oh you tricked the gc" researching the problem
mircea_popescu: kinda the point.
mircea_popescu: and the cycle penalty is not significant huh.
trinque: if it's a development instance of something, I send along "swank" which lets me summon a repl out of the thing and fiddle internals.
trinque: so you make one of those, it tacks the lisp executable to the front of the thing, huck the whole wad at server and restart service
trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, that's rather nice. save-lisp-and-die saves the memory state of your environment, then runs a specified function when it's awoken.
mircea_popescu: so normally you just compile into bytecode via sblc on your box and send the binary to prod box ?
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 20:31 Framedragger: or one could even dare to develop something collaboratively, but the republic would surely segfault then.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1571137 << not allergic to collab at all; in a couple of days, a V genesis shall be forthcoming on a tidy wad of html generating lisp for the WoT pages.
mircea_popescu: and in other "the summer is here" news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6cc71fb0286ffd76f249db75faed296c/tumblr_mslu4iBVoh1ro2gueo1_1280.jpg
shinohai: When your shitcoin needs a hardfork to fix a hardfork: https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/releases/tag/v1.5.2
mircea_popescu: but really, psychic surgery over the tubes ?
mircea_popescu: that they give each other advice on "how to talk to girls" on the basis of you know, one of them actually once did it / someone once overheard someone doing it is one thing.
mircea_popescu: who the everloving fuck can live in this world where the yearlings think themselves experts in things jesus f christ!
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/user/HarrisHarrington << this just takes the cake of poptardation. so here's a guy too young to have an undergraduate degree doing self-help posturing over youtube.
Framedragger: wanted to check by going to actual archive.is and seeing if the new url got archived, and when. (all good).
Framedragger: (should be possible to find the signal from html returned.)
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: um. while it will not increase "number of URLs newly archived" if URL is actually not valid as reported by archive.is, but it *will* get increased for the same URL, even if archive.is had already archived it.
mircea_popescu: i actually planted a bunch in romania, for the flowers.
Framedragger: but then, people take that salvia thing, whatever it's called, and apparently better part of all experiences end up with dissociative-of-not-the-nice-sorts delirium state..
Framedragger: i think some folks in .lt used to (attempt to) get high on it, to obtain some or other state of delirium
shinohai: Virginia, I think I remember the colonists got all high on it.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, /me walking noticed an interesting flower, long, trumpet like. plucked it, smelled it, very nice smell. checked it out on the internets - it's datura. grows wild here.
mircea_popescu: as it's exactly the sort of you know, "advertising enigmae" you were talking about yest.
Framedragger: okay. i'll first do archive.is as i think i just need to change user-agent, and then some time next week can set up curl + bundling thing.
Framedragger: (not that you'll call the latter "sites", i'm sure:)
mircea_popescu: then it could bundle all of these together in a base64'd blob each week and deedbot them.
scriba: Logged on 2016-11-19: [00:14:14] <BingoBoingo> Who makes counterfeit marijuana as mentioned http://qntra.net/2016/11/st-louis-homeless-overdose-on-fake-weed-as-the-great-again-looms/
mircea_popescu: anyway, having scriba simply curl http://qntra.net/2016/11/st-louis-homeless-overdose-on-fake-weed-as-the-great-again-looms/ > 20161119.18 in response to http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161119/#18 is both useful and roughly sufficient.
Framedragger: owait, curl still works. apparently "<h2 data-translate="what_happened">What happened?</h2>\n <p>The owner of this website (archive.is) has banned your access based on your browser\'s signature"
Framedragger: motherfucking cloudflare
mircea_popescu: and in other red cups, http://68.media.tumblr.com/f08279648ba09a168f9102da18af85d8/tumblr_mslu6c6xEq1ro2gueo1_1280.jpg
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 19:31 Framedragger: but yeah, i've noticed that sshd works just fine (incl accepting new connections) even if cpu at ~100% and/or no free disk space. there's that.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1571048 << it's not a matter of "cpu at 100%" nor is it a matter of free disk space. if on that os ssh hangs off eg dbus, and if dbus gets locked out by kernel because "dirty page" or "waiting on journal update" or whatever similar idiocy, your process is stalled. and these are just random examples, so much can go wrong in a modern box it's not even worth my time drawing the broad strokes.
mircea_popescu: whoopdedoo, you push it until it dies by design then you wonder it dies now and again.
mircea_popescu: the entire stack is built pretty much to create this - first, we have a phuctor, and 2mn keys looks like the whole world, and any finds look improbable as shit. then some finds are found, and more keys are fed, so now 50mn looks like the whole world and a few finds a day are expected. BUT THEN a way is found to crack thousands of keys in a week, and well, the echafaudage which held up the original is struggling.
Framedragger: anyway, i imagine a bunch of d(a)emons fighting for i/o... and yeah no one is saying that there's a straightforward solution...
mircea_popescu: i dunno that alf is a db engineer by trade, so it's entirely possible specific measures could help, especially if they're of the magic number ilk of "set X to Y in config file, we didn't docum,ent this anywhere but its tru!"
mircea_popescu: in general db optimization / low consumption success stories rest on a very opposite situation - the lines are only ever interesting in one perspective and light only lights one facet at a time sorta things.
mircea_popescu: lol. yeah, might work here, it's not clear. the problem, you have to understand, is how integrated the data is. sure a db with however many lines did fine in whatever box. the problem is that everything phuctor has, phuctor uses, and so it's very close to the unmitigated nightmare which is "random access"t
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 18:55 asciilifeform: we are at the farthest possibly limit of what can be done on one box, at anything like reasonable budget (whether paying the cost of a small european flat for a server for public service is 'reasonable' is separate question)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570960 << for the record, phuctor costs more than what renting house costs in romania. flat - maybe in frankfurt or something.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 18:52 asciilifeform: Framedragger: db being hammered 24/7 with 'do we have this hash' 'do we have this fp' 'add this and this' 1000/sec is the bottle.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570951 << for the record, separate dbs for selects and inserts is the way to go. from experience it can rescue a large project / save 9x% off the hardware costs.the way you do it is that you have a master db copy which is the only one that takes the inserts, and slave dbs which are the only ones that take the selects. replication can be at dedicated sql cluster level or above, slave dbs can
mircea_popescu: and from my pov, V is truly great in the sense that it allows a very simple test for when april next rolls around. phf's viewer trivially allows to see what signatures are actually active in the deployed branches of republican code. join that set with the set of box owners and you have a very good first approximation of the l1.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-17 14:43 Framedragger: (and on a side note, "hang out on #trilema after splitting with gf" has been one of the more constructive choices i've made in my life)
mircea_popescu: learning to write code so that other people ~actually find it better than writing themselves~ is squarely in that http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-17#1568870 bracket.
BingoBoingo: There will always be enough stuff to be done in the future. This is not a reason to not make things and move into the done category.
mircea_popescu: not that there's anything wrong with running your own service on your own box. but the pill for collaboration exists and is used.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger technically yes you can - make a V root for it, like properly sane people, then he'll just import that / patch it himself when he's ready.
Framedragger: yah but there's also enough of stuff to be done :) if trinque does WoT browser i won't do in parallel just so that there are two
BingoBoingo: WoT browser is like log viewer, who the fuck cares how many there are so long as there is a non-zero number!
Framedragger: or one could even dare to develop something collaboratively, but the republic would surely segfault then.
BingoBoingo: Or there will be pain
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 17:17 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: heathen-facing publicationtron is inherently contradictory thing .
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570790 << amusingly enough, this is actually true. "i would like to lecture these monkeys in modern psychology" "ok ?" "can you design a shitproof semipermeable membrane that still allows my precious words to reach them ?" "uh. not really. whatever the fuck it is, sooner or later the shit will clog it"
Framedragger: sure. "javascript in the backend", etc etc etc.; i mean, it's still a horrible language. but yeah.
mircea_popescu: tbh i think javascript is not ever hated in the context of its original domain, "make drawn man move his arms" ; it's whenever it tries to be other things that it draws ire.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 17:24 mod6: Framedragger: so with regard of the wotperson to wotperson (http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=mod6&to=mircea_popescu) and all ratings to wotperson (http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/mod6/); I think we liked those very much as they were. Of course any sort of improvements could be added if they make sense, etc.
Framedragger: re. JS, yeah makes sense. and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570796 << thanks for the feedback! (and i agree regarding comments, preferences make sense)
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 17:03 Framedragger: regarding visualization, a more condensed question: if a javascript-using thing were delivered, would this be hated upon (and berated by asciilifeform) and accepted if otherwise good and properly maintained, or hated upon and dismissed (and berated by asciilifeform)? :)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570756 << js-based thing can not be the thing. it can be an optional expansion on the thing.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570755 << yes, but you're doing the payments lol. stale data is no good, but wait-forever project even worse. the trade-offs of resource investment!
mircea_popescu: might discover it fails via resource exhaustion in the very large dataset that is tmsr wot, but who knows. worth a shot.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 16:57 Framedragger: re. visualization, i like stuff like this (mouse over on labels around the circle), but it's a hella lot of JS, and i share the hate towards the latter: http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/7607999 - what's nice about btcalpha visualization is that it uses by-now standard html5 canvas directives (<path>) with no need for JS.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 16:45 Framedragger: i suppose the idea could be to re-implement that, but using deedbot's view of WoT, and add additional things as desired.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mtbf of the linux boxes at my ~house~ is measured in years... why do you suppose is this.
mircea_popescu: and yes, we're woprking on fixing this. the work is wide, and we can't get over, some handsome rovers from town to town etc.
mircea_popescu: but the point remains, mtbf in linux world is NOT years.
mircea_popescu: point in case here. it is beyond even the shadow of the most absurd doubt that alf's code locked the box. but he's willing to spend time fighting the obvious, rather than anything else, because hey, this is a bitter pill to swallow.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: sure, there's that...
Framedragger: asciilifeform: then, i think, box needs to physically reside with someone in your WoT. i'm just saying. maybe cheap slippery slope sophism.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you gotta learn to judiciously allocate your time ; Framedragger the problem isn't so much locking up the box - it's that the box will fuck up, this being "foss" bullshit, and then the owner will be like "i dun wanna pay for a box i can't use, notwithstanding this is what i claimed i want".
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 16:36 mod6: Anyway, now that it seems that private a more rich ticketing system is wanted, these things can be considered for sure. Salud!
Framedragger: (this is a case where i am more cynical than asciilifeform: a DC you don't know, what illusions does one have; okay, one could install a sensor which signals if box was 'tampered with'; they could still take box offline, clone memory, set up a replica. etc etc etc.)
asciilifeform: physically it ~can~ dump ram, research proj i led at the time investigated how to coax it to do this, among other things
mircea_popescu: sort-of. by now they have derpy guis for it.
asciilifeform: i had occasion to install such a machine a few yrs ago, somewhere, it came with 'kvm chipset', but this feature was not advertised. the advertised feature is just that, kvm, where you get a tty prompt.)
mircea_popescu: afaik it can't actually dump ram or do useful debugging. but it can reboot the system, which is you know, a crossed wire.
asciilifeform: such cheap. logs in as root, deletes logs on the box (yes)
mircea_popescu: anyway. in the intervening years there's this new approach that dcs favour because cheaper.
asciilifeform: it cost 0. (but there was a queue, sometimes a whole hour long!)
mircea_popescu: what exactly did you think you were asking when you asked for the dc to kvm in your box and fix it for you ?
mircea_popescu: apparently the divergence is winder than previously realised. anyway - ipkvm capable chipsets come with ipkvm.