trinque finger hovers over the button
BingoBoingo: We don't even know if there is a you!
trinque: and the topic
zKawaiiKittyz: another person copied me :(
BingoBoingo: Anyways zKawaiiKittyz Here's a sample way to anwer the question: "My dad's a gynecologist, he looks at vaginas all day long"
BingoBoingo: I am the party pooper.
BingoBoingo: But introductions help make the world go round. Let's play a game. It's called Who is your daddy and what does he do?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 21:10 mircea_popescu: pretty sure the guy reads the log with some sort of frequency.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the poison part was never the difficulty -- e.g., ricin, is even more specific 'cellular' poison
mircea_popescu: anyway, i dun recall the specifics but i think this may have been grafted not endogenous
mircea_popescu: yes, but the models sometimes do.
asciilifeform: it is largely why virtually no 'rat hero' substance ever leaves the rat lab.
asciilifeform: which accounts for heroic 'cures', their cancers would last 3 seconds in a healthy organism
mircea_popescu: (general here means exactly the same it does when i say we have a general cure for infection. it's not that nobody can die of infections ; but that there's antibiotics, which mostly work.)
mircea_popescu: which is the deep reason for a major redistribution of research resources from other fashionable causes to cancer in thepast decade, as cartman aptly observed.
mircea_popescu: there's been various successful tests, including prostate-cancer-rat achieving complete remission through 1 iv application. so we have maybe 50-50 chances to see a ~general~ cure for cancer within our lifetime.
mircea_popescu: since recently dna understanding improved significantly, and the workings of the immune system, esp in its binding functions, became more understood ; and since complex molecule synthesis muchly developed as well, a universal cure for cancer based on the principle of getting alpha-amanitin bound to a specific tumour cell seeking protein seems altogether very feasible.
mircea_popescu: and to round off the "fungi are interesting" general literacy thread - the way most (and the most) poisonous mushrooms work is through a substance that inhibits extremely selectively rna polymerase 2. this makes the affected cells unable to reproduce, and hence the "eat destroying angel, get cramps/diarhea in three days, drop dead in 7" effect.
mircea_popescu: there's a good few millions of species ; 10k would be a negligible dent.
asciilifeform: is there even 10k known species of fungus ?
asciilifeform: what, in the eyes of mircea_popescu , would count as 'serious result' in subj field ??
mircea_popescu: (actually, for they reading to educate : most fungi live in more or less mutualistic relationships with lichens ; a few with trees, which are advancedlichens)
mircea_popescu: governments, turns out, tend to waste their resources.
mircea_popescu: which is why i say, not much seriouys work done on the actual topic.
mircea_popescu: yes, but there's a very few fungi that are industrially relevant
mircea_popescu: in general they were directed at "interesting" things which didn't include fungi
asciilifeform: (housecat that grows to german shepherd size, other side-show attractions)
asciilifeform: afaik very little came of it, other than substance that induces certain side effect - gigantism in mammals
mircea_popescu: which should prolly be a decent grant topic for the curious.
mircea_popescu: the energies required may indeed be very high.
mircea_popescu: there's planets with wild volcanoes of ethylene in our very solar system. red dwarf may make them rather pleasant.
mircea_popescu: sure ; but they've got time.
asciilifeform: everybody is fond of 'space spores' but so far 0 clues re a 2nd place where they might work.
mircea_popescu: the spores are EXTRMEELY hardy.
trinque: might be entirely natural to fart around on a planet for a while then get knocked by some rock onto the next one
mircea_popescu: except things like dog vomit, or the previously discussed black alcohol modl. they've been here fopr a long long time now.
mircea_popescu: trinque this doesn't explain why ants aren't like trilobytes see. most species are extinct, ants are uniquelly successful at the game of life.
mircea_popescu: jurov ah, mine's not formalizable either!
trinque: can't really said to be optimal, just that various other anthills were less so
jurov: "could fucking cut off the sail" is formalizable but "having extra neurons to be able to do so" is not?
mircea_popescu: "anthill optimizes for anthood" is a very true if not particularly useful statement. and the type of "anthood" variable could be... "anthillyness".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: examples like your ant abound. consider the infamous sphex wasp
jurov: anyway, if it's not optimization, what does mircea_popescu call the its-not-doing-drunk-walk phenomenon?
mircea_popescu: anyway - the reason the yaching ant is such a good example is because - it COULD just fucking cut off the god damned sail. couldn't it ? just drag the seed without the air drag ?
jurov: maximize biomass of the species?
asciilifeform: trinque: there are nonexistent anthills everywhere around you!1111 even in your nostril
asciilifeform: anthill, if said to optimize for something (and this is at least mildly sinful, somewhat like describing the operation of a submarine as 'swimming') optimizes for energy/food ROI.
mircea_popescu: what's this, "i'll make sure the turing machine don't ever stop, i'm having too much fun" ?
mircea_popescu: and the anthill optimizes for the ... pointer to the function which is... the element of the anthill ?
asciilifeform: takes inputs from the beast's sensory organs and gives outputs for its locomotive organs.
asciilifeform: then i say 'function'
mircea_popescu: jurov yes, but the trouble is not only that your guess is not formal - it's that your guess is not formalizable.
asciilifeform: lethal to all bees but a species somewhere in jp, that knows the pill against the wasp (surround it, and kill with own head)
mircea_popescu: yes, they optimized. what ? von kaman's underpants, that's what.
asciilifeform: anyone recall those wasps ? the ones that can eat a beehive in 15 min. or so
mircea_popescu: how about we just agree that the data type of the optimized variable is not computable.
asciilifeform: the one thing it most definitely is, is very very slow.
asciilifeform: quite possibly that ant -- or that seed -- came with the spanish ?
mircea_popescu: but apparently... the acer seed / wind combo hasn't needed any optimization or anything hence.
mircea_popescu: you'd think they had wind back in 50`000`000 bc back when ants were a hot new gizmo.
mircea_popescu: the sail blows in the wind, topples it, the animal will happily spend half an hour spinning in a dime's area.
mircea_popescu: the general impression is of an ant that decided to take up yachting
mircea_popescu: this country has a lot of foraging ant species. i enjoy watching them. on numerous occasions i have observed individual ant dragging acer type seed.
mircea_popescu: dropping the abstract for a concrete anecdote here :
phf: i think that's one of standard thinker childhood experiences, making a closed loop in the ant pheromone trail
mircea_popescu: jurov this "ants optimize paths to food" is like saying "trump won the election". o, really, he did ?
mircea_popescu: (this is my stock question to cut the new age-y idiots at the knees. "oh ant colony optimizes" "what ?". sooner or later they realise they can't actually SAY what the fuck it is, because it's not a scalar ; nor a vector nor a bitfield. yes they optimize something, now put it in a hard typed language. what is it ?)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: term referred to an algo where you have 10,000,001 simulated ants, or bees, etc., navigating your phase space and leaving 'pheromonal trails' for one another
asciilifeform always pictured, when hearing phrase 'ant colony optimization', lowering the speaker into an anthill and asking him to please optimize! before he is eaten
asciilifeform: phf: i had earlier edition of iirc that thing (the one with the ants on the cover) at umd
mircea_popescu: "i've never seen anything remotely as annoying as prolog, with the notable exception of makefiles, running on top of a wonderful inference engine of their own" << ahaha!
mircea_popescu: anyway, the idea was similar - war is won by the shovel means same thing, that indirect effects drown out direct effects.
asciilifeform: they might have answered: 'bugle'
mircea_popescu: (classical antiquity take on it - they didn't have radios)
mircea_popescu: the same 60-70 years that failed to produce anything woreth the mention in ai also failed to produce an even vaguely coherent model of the state, or of any sort of identity in any field, or of you pick it. not even their distribution models work.
mircea_popescu: the "consumer" is not an answer to any valid question in socioeconomics ; the "unique" says nothing interesting of the http/html/web-of-blabla. and on it goes.
mircea_popescu: be they "how to run your household" or "how do do war and diplomacy" or anything else ABSOLUTELY.
asciilifeform: the 1 piece you can 'take to the bank' is that it is idiocy to consider solutions to a problem that is not even actually defined.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the approaches "ever tried" have been "ever tried" in a short period of history which is chiefly distinguished by the incredible quality that NONE of the approaches tried, in ANY fields, worked to any degree or produced anything of interest.
asciilifeform: observation was not 'it is impossible', 'liek heavier-than-air flight!11111' but that none of the approaches ever tried afaik have led to anything of interest.
mircea_popescu: see the "your brain is not a thinking mechanism" discussions.
mircea_popescu: but then again : the most hardcore anti-ai stance, and the one to which i vaguely subscribe, is to observe that the 1 is entirely illusory
mircea_popescu: yet the rule says 0, 1, infinitits.
asciilifeform: ( likewise the workings of, e.g., a FET, are quite different from what digital engineer learns in school, and ~nobody designs ~anything using the actual equations as understood by maxwell et al )
mircea_popescu: now then : the issue of arbitrarily hard ai existing / being produced is separate of same being produced ~by you~. for any definition of you.
asciilifeform: that's not the issue; airplane worked just fine but was not adequately explained in physical terms until '50s (and if you are a stickler for rigour, even today)
mircea_popescu: understand that in order for the cunt to work, you don't have to understand its parts and mechanisms. iraqi "elite forces" use bridges and cartridges just fine even though they evidently can't make either.
asciilifeform: hell, we don't even have a working ornithopter, and the problem is, what, 800+ yrs old as posed.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody has any fucking idea how to replicate the fault-tolerance of meat, afaik.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the brain is a shambling horror of cells.
mircea_popescu: i can grant that ai is a psychiatric issue of plenty of computer programmers ; i can even grant that it is perhaps best to pretend like ai is "impossible" in the sense he means to perhaps cure the idiots.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is the 2nd type
asciilifeform: there are 2 types of ai skeptic, the 'vitalists' ('immortal soul') and the 'shambling horror of computer', 'we don't even know how to make a spreadshit that dun crash' folk.
mircea_popescu: i must confes : that i am not sufficiently an idealist to presume some sort of "human-brain-substance" that's somehow irreproducible in any other paradigm than via cunt-perl.
mircea_popescu: well it's also not clear the interface/drill bit dichotomy is supported by his piece.
asciilifeform: 'The error is that control interfaces must not be intelligent. Briefly, intelligent user interfaces should be limited to applications in which the user does not expect to control the behavior of the product. If the product is used as a tool, its interface should be as unintelligent as possible. Stupid is predictable; predictable is learnable; learnable is usable.'
asciilifeform: the way i read it, he was talking about something like http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/07/wolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html .
mircea_popescu: as the idea is to make ai not a"i". THAT we already have.
asciilifeform: you can't buy intelligent at the comp shop.
asciilifeform: he did say 'intelligent', rather than intelligent !1111
mircea_popescu: "If the thing is even remotely close to "intelligent", you can no longer issue commands; you must explain yourself and ask for something and then it will misunderstand you." << he's wrong, incidentally. intelligent and obedient are not in any way orthogonal, a matter i have verified experimentally to my satisfaction.
mircea_popescu: but on the other side of the coin, "As you probably already know, but my trademark thoroughness still obliges me to say, AI stands for "Artificial Intelligence" and comes in two flavors, "deterministic" (like minmax) and "statistical" (like SVM). The combined efforts of various researches lead to an important breakthrough in this field, known to meteorologists as "the AI winter". This is the season when you can't get any VC m
mircea_popescu: same cornhole tears result either way.
mircea_popescu: apparently now they disrupt it.
phf: "The Disrupt Hackathon is a 24 Hour event preceding the annual Disrupt London conference organized by TechCrunch."
shinohai: http://archive.is/uNkYw <<< Train your children young to accept others controlling their private keys
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This particular heathen iirc visited befor
mircea_popescu: to my eyes the whole "social media" is running out of attraction juice, but what do i know.
phf: dc punk scene reminds me of this story i read at some point by an отморозок trying to run some hustle in london. at some point he says he saw some suspiciously clean looking skinheads, so was about to go "how are you brothers" until he saw that the two were holding hands. after that he goes on a long rant about how london skinheads are all fags, etc.
phf: oh yeah, of course i remember it as "everyone was children", but there was a cutoff point. "younger brother" sort of thing
asciilifeform: in so far as heathens go, this one is worth writing to imho
mircea_popescu: sounds like tales from the future.
mircea_popescu: im npot even aware people were allowed to be married ; let alone have children. really, punk fathers ?
mircea_popescu: enforced through the dual a) must be able to handle being punched b) must have tits approach.
mircea_popescu: all age punk scene ? what the fuck ?
BingoBoingo: "In the venues all-ages policy, a time-honored practice of radical inclusion in the D.C. punk scene, they see a cover for pedophilia."
mircea_popescu: this is the true cause of us law prolixity / enforcement sparsity.
BingoBoingo: lol "But theres something special about Comet Ping Pong, and its that distinctive character, sadly, that may have allowed the campaign against it to fester. Comet is, after all, D.C.s weirdo pizza place."
mircea_popescu: no, no. more bezzle : the new jersey lawyers get to pretend like they ACHIEVED ; the eff get to pretend like they mattered ; the students get to pretend they were cool.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah i assumed that the students were expelled, jailed
mircea_popescu: ^ idiots managed to fuck up their site ; all links to answers are 404
phf: tmsr, the third group
mircea_popescu: in other lulz :
BingoBoingo: Lettuce not forget to lol at "artists" thinking themselves better than the building trades
asciilifeform: i.e. orcs who don't particularly care how densely packed ? and in b.a. they do..?
asciilifeform: why was new york 'compacted' as it was? it isn't as if there were no room to 'flatten' it
mircea_popescu: you realise it's about five times the size of new york ? it's a village.
mircea_popescu: really, the notion that buenos aires is a CITY is ridiculous on its face.
asciilifeform: why mircea_popescu in buenos aires and not patagonia , then..?
mircea_popescu: so if poorfag gets a dollar, he's much more likely to apply that dollar towards going further away from the high density rats nest than towards getting the very high density rats nest closer to habitable standard.
mircea_popescu: this is perpetually the case, the people who live in high density live there because they can't afford lower density ; but the needs of various countermeasures are greater the higher the density (exponentially).
mircea_popescu: meh, what's with the ugly costume.
asciilifeform: (they are typically kept without mains power)
asciilifeform: mats: i strongly suspect that the vast tracts of UNINHABITED suburban shitboxes pull the overall fire stats downwards.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 16:31 asciilifeform: phf: the funny bit is: if fire safety laws were to be enforced in usa, most if not all of the suburban idiotboxes would be condemned and bulldozed
shinohai: It waz cazalla ... in the outback ... with a lead pipe.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously. "How the redditards live" made today's paper.
mircea_popescu: game accounts from what i currently known are compromised through 1) "dude used password as a password", perhaps with debian-strengtheners as per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-24#1558621 and 2) drive-by flash / activex / webshit exploit.
mircea_popescu: yes one could dissect it to find the cappers and fuck your pw, but this is a lot less easy than most anythingelse.
mircea_popescu: anyway - even if the client src is published - it will ship with pw_prefix = "" pw_suffix ="". if you edit these and recompile your pw won't work on stock or anyone else's client, and there's no rule you have to compile on the exact machine you use. you can keep the src in your safe and run object code.
asciilifeform: ( it is not clear to me that rsa-abused-as-symmetriccipher is in any way worse than to use the idiot usg ciphers. )
mircea_popescu: anyway ; still not entirely convinced as to WHAT to use to encrypt the eulora-privkey with.
asciilifeform: how does that differ from enter-the-pw ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought that the client src was published
mircea_popescu: otherwise... your pw won't work.
phf: "can't login" is literally one symbol. obviously i've seen that on compromised machines, somewhere in that large column of of id:*:... there would be a random system account with :: go look
phf: also those flags are not separate, but in the same field. difference between "anyone can login" and "can
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally i intend to use this in eulora - have the privkey file encrypted, and have both a client-wide settable prefix and a password
mircea_popescu: (salt, it should be pointed out, is nonsense leftover from the "md5 is broken and that's ok" days. if your hash needs a salt you need a new hash.)
asciilifeform: load the salt into kernel ram on bootup via toggle switches.
asciilifeform: kinda lulzy usgism that these flags are separate; rather like an auto with 4 instead of 1 brake pedals
asciilifeform: or wait... is that the warehouse d00d
mircea_popescu: in other random words, https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/derick-ion.jpg
phf: actually i'm wrong again, crypt takes special $id$salt$encrypted format, where id is 1/2/5/6 for md5/blowfish/sha256/sha512. on the box where i looked that up all the passwords are $1$
phf: !#s john the ripper
phf: well shadow for a longest time was md5 hashed (on linuxes anyway), so there was a nice window where you could with some craftiness extract passwords out of it
asciilifeform: then you take your 100,000,001 leaked lusernames+pwhashes, the subset you bruteforced, and fire away
asciilifeform: phf: you can still enumerate usernames with /etc/passwd, which i assume is the point of shooting in the dark at it
mircea_popescu: there is also that.
mircea_popescu: maybe he's from the future.
asciilifeform: normally these scripts make some logical sense
shinohai: I didn't have a prior copy of thestringpuller 's key in that instance.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger understand, it makes 0 difference that you "exist" in the sense of, have a tight relationship with your gf. existence is solipsistic, you exist to X once X bothers to get your key.
asciilifeform: (they matched)
mircea_popescu: 1st seems more like spot check and 2nd i'm not sure the two did have a prior relationship
a111: Logged on 2016-09-28 20:31 shinohai: !!key thestringpuller
phf: i think key reliance here is very much ~wot~ very similar to how otc used to operate. i.e. if there's no identity outside of key, then key-identity-trust are all tied together. nobody sends anybody sensitive command/control/comm without knowing them first. i had a version of asciilifeform's key for years, and my knowledge of asciilifeform was build on multiple verifications of asciikey-asciilifeform-rating entity
Framedragger: (this whole "request key before i encipher" seems weird to me at any rate. store the keys, have some out-of-band way of verifying them, and use them when needed. but i understand that the current mechanism is useful, and iirc i must have used it myself, even)
asciilifeform: what if the decision to launch rockets or not has to be made based on signature NOW ?
asciilifeform: so far the sappers have gotten to err >1ce
Framedragger: hmh. i guess it counts as "key verification" then. hm
mircea_popescu: the reason is that large scale crime syndicates don't... think bars important enough ?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger what happens when you go to a bar and order a drink is that the bartender pours you a drink.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: but what oftentimes ends up happening when you request key from deedbot is that the requester then promptly uses that key to encrypt $text, and ping recipient with a public url to $text. the fact that there's been no mitm, i think, only shows that the lizards do not find this place important enough (for better or worse, etc)
trinque: as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget
Framedragger: oh, sure, i understand that the scheme as currently implemented *actually works* :p
mircea_popescu: "promisetronic" in the sense of "not rippletronic/ethereumtronic/etc" is a good thing.
Framedragger: and how the hell do you know that what thing-calling-self-deedbot gave you over fleanode is thing-you-requested?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger "using the wot to validate a public key".
trinque: point being the "I am responsible for some" becomes meaningless because no one will ever be pinned down by that.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 14:23 mircea_popescu: "I never ever ever successfully used the WoT to validate a public key." ie what we do here multiple times a day ?
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578290 << for completeness sake, i'm not sure if what is done here multiple times a day is the thing he meant, i.e.: key verification :/
trinque: the signed curse would be stood by in court / at the gallows, whereas something like "I am responsible for some of this" is what, the part that killed my goat, or "always not that part" ?
trinque: and the -1 doesn't undermine the opposability with "eh, I never actually read this" and etc
mircea_popescu: diana_coman that part, of "who", is kinda baked in the design as it is, because of the .seals
diana_coman: fwiw I kept trying to digest asciilifeform's proposed categories, but I must confess I would still have trouble deciding on one or another; basically my clear categories would really be binary: I'm USING this or I WILL NOT USE this; the rest I would rather expect to be sorted by competence meaning that one who wants to write a patch for eulora would better get a "I'm using this" from someone involved with eulora, not from his t
asciilifeform: they are made of cardboard, of paper, and burn like old newspaper, regularly
asciilifeform: phf: the funny bit is: if fire safety laws were to be enforced in usa, most if not all of the suburban idiotboxes would be condemned and bulldozed
phf: i know a guy who lives in a shipping container (actually mutliple shipping containers welded together) in that area, but he built it himself, he works with steel and propane and is generally a competent person (he lives on his shop grounds). when i read the story i though maybe a warehouse rave caught on fire, but apparently the idiots were living there? it'll just make the authorities take a closer look at oakland warehouses and fuck
asciilifeform: trinque: then these same weasels, revealed to be weasels, don't get ticket to mircea_popescu's mars ship
phf: this happens to squats all the time, but i don't think that the fatalities are as high in civilized world, because people tend to understand what they get into when they squat. sucks, because it's likely to make getting warehouses for legitimate use trickier in the future
shinohai: I had nearly all my stuff in claims until I found out they vanish sporadically, so back to Electron it all went.
mircea_popescu: they kinda became rare and are selling for crazy, 500%+ premiums.
phf: ben_vulpes: if you were to use bind everywhere you can use it (e.g. as a replacement for let, destructuring-bind) your code is going to look sufficiently different that it's not clear if you're even programming in common lisp at that point. makes the result less readable for other cl programmers, and code becomes harder to future proof. the tradeoff is generally seen as not worth it (too intrusive for little payoff)
mircea_popescu: oh i thought you bought one of the first ones.
jurov: mircea_popescu: no and iirc i never used them
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 02:33 ben_vulpes: does the lispy lordship have opinions to share about cl extension libs like "alexandria" and "metabang-bind"?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578252 << the two are different beasts. alexandria by design is a set of helper functions that wouldn't be out of place in the standard (complete with sometimes obtuse names!), some like with-gensyms doplist flatten iota if/when-let i've seen reimplemented all over the place. bind is more of a everything and kitchen sink replacement for builtin operators
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 02:33 ben_vulpes: does the lispy lordship have opinions to share about cl extension libs like "alexandria" and "metabang-bind"?
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578252 << as long as they fit into the head (like alexandria), fine for me. why are you asking?
mircea_popescu: aanyway. the moral broadly speaking is that there's a windows-niggers-and-other-idiots python ("windows-niggers-and-other-idiots" which is how you decode "3" in unicode) and a normal people python which finally became stable cca 2010 and thanks god.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "Unicode on UNIX is only madness if you force it on everything. But that's not how Unicode on UNIX works. UNIX does not have a distinction between unicode and byte APIs. They are one and the same which makes them easy to deal with." (from thing guy linked, http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-is-probably-never-going-to-support-python-3/#comment-119991 ).
mircea_popescu: phf for the obvious reason, the horde of consumers want to do what other people have done. the idea is for terrorists to not be able to communicate with upstanding, law abiding citizens, not the other way around.
Framedragger: (the 79.98.25.168 pop is interesting tho, as some of these hosting-company-i-use boxen get provisioned with everything installed, and i'm sure as fuck that "not all" customers regen ssh host keys. so there may be more pops, or other interesting goodness. probably the whole /16 is worthy of getting properly port-scanned, lots of broken stuff there i'm sure - if anyone has time etc)
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/base-files << there's even a convenient listing.
Framedragger: need the latest node.js!!!
mircea_popescu: and they always package "sid" (ie, devel) as opposed to stable
mircea_popescu: anyway. 10.04/10.10/11.04 are squeeze ; the rest up to 14.04 wheezy and then jessie.
mircea_popescu: (they "commit to security updates within 9 months". fancy that wonder.)
Framedragger: "i dug the dirt myself and now gotta eat it"
scriba: Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161206/#101 << hah, same hosting company and same /24 that is used for Framedragger's logotron and other things
asciilifeform: was there an ubuntu based on diddled-debian, mircea_popescu et al ?
asciilifeform: there was a thread re 'do-ocracy', a name one of the perpetrators gave to this practice