mircea_popescu: i say hey, this may be interesting ; or someone else does. the end.
mircea_popescu: i create a key, sign the whatever dump ; for all you know a new eulora player signed a gentoo legacy v root.
mircea_popescu: neither new, nor poorly defined. i can do it right now and you'd never know.
mircea_popescu: it's both agreed upon and discussed throughout the logs ; whenever v intended usage came up, this came up.
asciilifeform: well mircea_popescu suggested a 'this is my key for signing legacy c bs'. how many of these does mircea_popescu personally intend to keep ? of what types ?
mircea_popescu: they're nothing alike, seriously now.
asciilifeform: incidentally i did think of the 'multiple signing keys' thing, imho it is fairly obvious, but even worse than my vectorizer thing
asciilifeform: it was done to standard of 'runs', rather than 'guaranteed correct'
asciilifeform: incidentally i realized that it is misleading to say 'i run gentoo.' because i probably could not recreate it other than from backups of own machines.
mircea_popescu: "oh, this foul gentoo with the foul python" "bitch, what do you run ?" "same. but i had expectations from you!"
asciilifeform: the first finder of an 0day ?
mircea_popescu: who THE FUCK is in a position to contest anything ?
asciilifeform: the point is that the necessary labour to make such a signature carry any weight whatsoever does not exist.
mircea_popescu: "v gentoo would be possioble except for x" "so make x" "no because of co-consideration" " so make x' and disclaim the co-consideration" "what is the point of having x' if you disclaim the co-consideration???"
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as a signature's weight.
mircea_popescu: if someone wants to negrate you because legacy pile was bad, hey, all the better.
asciilifeform: (for any purpose other than 'i found on my disk in 2011, i swear')
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is actually how i ended up puzzling over 'vectorized sigs' and other, even less promising leads -- proper, honest-to-goodness signature is a 'heavy' instrument
phf: even dpkg/apt would be better than portage (note that dpkg and apt lets you build packages from source in a reliable and automatic way, but the setup for the process is not documented anywhere, since it's supposed to be "package maintainer technology")"
asciilifeform: when the 'coolies' who kept the thing from falling apart under own weight, pack and leave -- it collapses.
trinque: it's a mountain of hacks under the hood
trinque: asciilifeform: I moved portage over to openbsd (which had been done once before by another) only to decide the thing had gotten far too complicated.
phf: there's a pure musl gentoo build
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah, when I run my gentoo recipe, it's usually musl unless I actually need the glibc turd for something
mircea_popescu: might bring the same arguments against bash ffs.
asciilifeform: iirc there exists a musltronic python. so a musltronic gentoo is afaik in principle possible.
mircea_popescu: whart, they gonna keep her in embalming fluid till 2024 ?
thestringpuller: Kanye singlehandedly unleashed high frequency trading onto the sneaker world en masse.
thestringpuller: ^- meh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc not the best example cause he works on engines like ratchet and clank
asciilifeform: 'The work by Wuille and others on the SegWit proposal, which moved from testing to launch over the course of 2016, has set the stage for what will likely be bitcoin’s critical development arc in 2017. For Wuille and all the other bitcoin developers in the world, 2017 is on course for a defining year.' << lel
shinohai: http://www.thedp.com/article/2016/12/shakespeare-portrait-removed ".....replaced it with a photo of Audre Lorde, a black female writer." Such inclusiveness !
BingoBoingo: In similar news, Christmas Shopping for the frugal: Buy a Christmas Tree. Have the bottom limbs stripped off and cut it in half so the top becomes a small tree. Slice the now detached bottom log into disks. Score the bark on the disks with a knife. You now have a tree and tree scented disks to give as presents.
BingoBoingo: Anyways this is a serious Coindesk problem. People ask about doing things, decide to not do them instead doing the Silbert fiatola thing, and then make Coindesk list because it is all silbert stuff nao.
mircea_popescu: how quickly we forget the very reason we even have to call it "blockchain" rather than pretend it's bitcoin. tsk tsk.
shinohai: CoinDesk's Most influential "People" in blockchain .... #2 Butterin .... #1 The DAO hacker lmao http://archive.is/kSuld
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 18:44 asciilifeform: or (at the risk of sounding like complete idiot, because i did not play it) alchemy in eulora, it works there, but meatspace 'alchemy' is considerably more expensive, painful, and rewards -- few and far between, and most practitioners live and die without accomplishing ~anything...
jhvh1: danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
jhvh1: danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: no need to even be a buffett, if asciilifeform were to move out of his street, 'rents would fall' there.
mircea_popescu: or maybe it's all part of the summoning of the great again. new york used to be the cheapest in the werld at some point.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, shooting in the dork here.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-14 06:14 BingoBoingo: In other news, under Mayor de Blasio New York rents are apparently falling?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-14#1583068 << maybe the dear hearts an' gentle people of iowa&co finally figured out new york's really not worth the hassle ? and stopped moving there in hopes of becoming a magazine writer with a manhattan mansion just like that carrie bradshaw irl genuine real person ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-14 05:14 hanbot: ...nah. but totally, a derpy tourist pidgin would be just the thing to take off here.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-14#1583060 << it is, after all, how they ended up mispronouncing spanish. no, lluvia is not shuvia motherfuckers.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-14#1583052 << that's nothing ; in romania she asked the clerk in the fish shop for a coupla sidewalks, because english trout seemed cognate to romanian trotuar and wtf is a "pastrav". that guy is probably STILL staring into the empty space.
ben_vulpes: someone showed me a 'data point' that supported that hypothesis recently
BingoBoingo: In other news, under Mayor de Blasio New York rents are apparently falling?
BingoBoingo: Except I don't get to play with the food as much.
hanbot: anyway BingoBoingo a major lesson of the forum was that "nothing/nobody could be that fucking stupid" fails to pan out, and pretty much every time it's tested, too. i imagine scouting stories for qntra yields the same realization.
hanbot: ...nah. but totally, a derpy tourist pidgin would be just the thing to take off here.
ben_vulpes: "oh, contact lentils, that's what they're called"
ben_vulpes: how long did it take the arsholes to correct you?
hanbot: speaking of which, i got contact lenses for the first time last week. talked to a few people here about them, then realized i'd been calling them "contact lentils" (lentejas de contacto vs lentes)
BingoBoingo: But the forum offer a flayground full of bodies to skin!
hanbot: couldn't've hurt. really though, there's nothing like travel and working for mp to give someone a pair of disdain and derision glasses.
BingoBoingo: hanbot has a gift with the verbal venom
BingoBoingo: http://thewhet.net/2016/argentina-comicon-bonbon/ << This may be the literary piece of the year
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 18:14 deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2016/argentina-comicon-bonbon/ << The Whet - Argentina Comicon Bonbon.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582807 << ahaha hanbot quite! "dale, entonces somos todos artistas!" is just about buenos airtards in their heart of hearts.
asciilifeform: (to briefly revisit upstack, for log readers, 'prolog disease' is when a language is designed in such a way that in the course of normal operation, you routinely ask the machine questions which may well be np-hard to answer; and at any rate the correspondence between the algorithmic complexity of your proggy as-written and the resulting instruction stream physically as-executed, is something other than obvious)
mircea_popescu: in wetware these are stress-switched (which is why "stress" even exists in mammals) ; but i don't expect hardware to be able to reconfigure my machine from one to the other - just as long as it does either well i can buy two machines.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: taken literally, the first can simply take the form of 'iswolf(...) { return 1 ; } ' !
mircea_popescu: this kind-of mirrors the two functions of brain discussed in neuroscience, the fuzzy and the sharp state
mircea_popescu: as per the first, returning "nothing there" wrongly when i scan hill will result in wolf eating me; returning "wolf" when nothing there will just result in more checks, no biggy.
mircea_popescu: there's to my mind two different and unduly conjoined at the hip in practice meanings of "computer". ONE is "i need this tool to amplify my searching - false positives are not a concern, false negatives are very much a concern" ; but THE OTHER is "i need this machine to reliably do boring task for me - false positives are CATASTROPHIC, false negatives not so big a deal".
asciilifeform: (there is also pascal, but there exists , afaik, no reasonably cross-arch compiler today for it. and ada is a variation on the pascal theme anyway...)
asciilifeform: of the type-safe/bounds-safe languages, ada is the only one which fills this description.
asciilifeform: as someone who ~likes~ 'functional' languages, etc., i still must point out that it is a highly questionable business to use a language where there is not a simple, kindergarten correspondence b/w each line of the program and what the machine physically does, for safety-critical equipment.
asciilifeform: am quite certain , in fact, that there isn't one
mircea_popescu: there was a window, but i think it closed recently.
asciilifeform: theoretically open.
asciilifeform: fwiw i am still open to suggestions re 'the better ada'
mircea_popescu: phf as per naggumg quote ; quite exactly my mind too : there not existing cleverness is more valuable to the empire-of-idiots than any gains from clevernesses they realise.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on the contrary, it has a native compiler for x86. but i categorically am put off by the 'one implementation' thing.
mircea_popescu: ocaml that ml which is ml in the sense javasCript is c.
asciilifeform: (the latter has ONE IMPLEMENTATION, by some fr d00dz)
asciilifeform: (but not the former)
asciilifeform: ada suffers from the latter problem also
asciilifeform: but i very much dislike the 'no native compiler exists or can likely ever exist' part; and the 'there are 2 implementations ever made, and only 1 is quasi-usable' part.
mircea_popescu: it's unclear if that language reduces then to ada, but i suspect not.
mircea_popescu: there's possibly a language under academia-haskell screaming to get out ; strong types and etc
asciilifeform: (it is VERY attractive to academitards because it creates the kind of problems which they can later convert into papers)
mircea_popescu: in other irrelevant home flavour, girl making zacusca (the proper ro thing, baked peppers, etc) "what do i do with the juice ?" "freeze it" "hmm... need to get bags we're out" "use an ice cube tray". now ima have veggie broth cubed, for soups!
asciilifeform: (and, unlike prolog, is quite massive per se, and not easy at all to implement, and there is ONE usable implementation...)
asciilifeform: it has the prolog disease.
mircea_popescu: apparently the "around here" is wider than previously thought.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you don't get it : the "Reputation" bs is institutionalized oppression. in any system where group x has "reputation for y-bad" you know for a fact that a) group z is in charge ; b) group z is y-bad and c) group x is not.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 16:59 phf: dc is kind of shitty that they (very few flight schools closebuy, with a lot of wealthy people learning to fly), but there was airport near philly where you could flag any of their instructors and they'd love to fly you around however long you want whether or not you commit to you "recreational" license
davout: where i live "cold storage" means you won't die eating the chicken
asciilifeform: but better still to simply plug in the pocket-sized tool that does this, it costs maybe 1 $ where i live.
davout: (and try not to kill myself in the process)
davout: ok, so i try to measure resistance between the soil and ground prong, and should find small value
davout: ok, maybe i just suck at engrish, "prong" is either a hole, or a pin poking out of the socket, the poking out one, being connected to the "ground pin", said ground pin being in the soil?
davout: isn't "cold prong" the "ground pin" ?
asciilifeform: no, b/w it and cold prong (i.e. the one without 220v on it)
asciilifeform: you cannot; can only try to measure resistance between it and the cold prong
asciilifeform: the resistance between ground and 'cold' pin should be immeasurably small, in a properly built socket
davout: what could it be connected to that's not the earth?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: this is in the logs
Framedragger: reminds me of some guy who put a wire under his hand's skin, and made compass needle modulate the current (or somesuch). claims that after 2-3 weeks he had gained a genuinely new sense (of absolute direction)...
davout: while we're on the electricity topic: can i test the fact that my wall socket ground pin is correctly grounded by measuring the tension between said ground pin, and one of the plug holes?
davout: aha, as in 'really painful', probably not same thing then, body more concerned with "aaaah, injured" than "blergh, poisoned"
asciilifeform: thing even came with conductive grease, quite like what one finds in descriptions of electric chair, when head is shaved and lathered so as to conduct well
asciilifeform: now the train drives like a bus.
asciilifeform: they used to work well, then there was some wreck (from poorly maintained equipment) and human drivers were introduced.
asciilifeform: the underground train in washington lurches, bumps, it is a very sad thing
davout: how does one get motion sickness on trains? it's like the dullest thing ever
asciilifeform: (only ever got motion sickness in meatspace, on trains, and even there, not always)
asciilifeform: interestingly i never got the headache.
asciilifeform: my reaction is still 'very neato graphics', i am far behind the times
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 18:32 davout: i have nfi about the US, but in france there's a specific ultralight license
davout: so i mastered the demo. demo didn't have the wire extended for carrier-landing? after countless attempts i managed to fucking land on the carrier anyway
davout: played the demo for hours and hours
asciilifeform: aaah the sim
asciilifeform: or (at the risk of sounding like complete idiot, because i did not play it) alchemy in eulora, it works there, but meatspace 'alchemy' is considerably more expensive, painful, and rewards -- few and far between, and most practitioners live and die without accomplishing ~anything...
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit orig. thread, the thing i found appealing about 'air shooters' as a boy, was not the abstract 'grease wank' of 'oooh, engines, and gears' but the quick-with-your-eyes-hands-feet-shootout aspect of the game, which is not something that exists today in meatspace even in actual air combat (where you program the rocket, fire, and go home)
davout: asciilifeform: you sure? it's kinda doubtful you don't at the ver least have to understand airspace class in general, and not get in the way of people trying to go somewhere in particular
asciilifeform: in usa this is even officially permitted, you can buy certain types of machine and fly unlicensed so long as you do it over the ocean where nobody has to clean up your smashed carcass
thestringpuller: the more traditional method when I was in school, was join Aviation club. Sit at desk give out free pizza, get free coupon for "lessons".
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if you have one already and can convince instructor to go up in it -- might be cheaper.
thestringpuller: Give a farmer some good booze he'll take you up in the cropduster.
davout: thestringpuller: amount really depends on personal ability
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it's generally the machine rental time that is 90% of the cost iirc.
thestringpuller: How do pilot lessons cost 10k?!? Perhaps having cohorts in the boondocks has its advantages such as farmers with planes...
davout: i've borrowed a bunch of theory books too, and tbh the learning process itself seems pretty cool too
asciilifeform: the 'bus', from what i can tell, mostly drives itself.
davout: ah yeah, i don't think there's much of that to be had
asciilifeform: it's an honest trade. my criticism was strictly re the 'oooh yeee haw' part.
davout: also the "maybe it's a really boring job, maybe it's really cool" question that could conclusively be answered with "let's fucking try"
davout: i don't think it's the "piloting" part that's attractive to me, but more the "let's go see the sun" when all the other derps are stuck under a shitty stratus shittus overcast layer
asciilifeform: davout: understandably this is a matter of taste; but out of curiosity, where is the fun ? computer -- does ~all of the actual piloting
davout: my impression is actually the opposite
asciilifeform: (no sleeping ad libitum, however, then. your liner might have to fly at 3 in the morning, or whenever.)
davout: i'm kinda considering getting myself a professionnal licence, to fly the big guys
davout: i'm quite curious about the rental rates where you live
davout: and remember that cessna runs on 100LL, which in my understanding is regular petrol, just dried up further to prevent carb icing
asciilifeform: yeah but who the hell counts ~hours~ when using transport ??
davout: i guess having one's own machine can make sense in some cases, mine's not one of them
davout: and that's for the two seater cessna 150
davout: 100LL gas is double the price of regular gas, and machine swallows four times more
davout: flying is financial insanity, having one's own machine is double the financial insanity
davout: there is like one cessna on this fucking island, and it's used by skydivers
davout: but seriously, you're a lucky bastard if you live accross the street from an airport
asciilifeform: davout imho is correct! vim needs a sim! to train on, so as not to die in the real deal.
asciilifeform: to this last question, i know the answer very well, it is not a mystery
asciilifeform: rather than 'where do i learn to pass exam for driving serious machine'
asciilifeform: this is why i was bewildered at the answers to this thread, i specifically mentioned 'contemplated playing games again after decade+', 'unwind'
asciilifeform: realistic sim is to study for exam (and, once you passed exam, to increase your life expectancy at the wheel)
davout: simming == what does this button do? does this work if i do the approach this way? what's that instrument?
davout: asciilifeform: there's a big difference between "simming" and "playing"
asciilifeform: is there also an 'old car' simulator ?
phf: asciilifeform: i don't have any peripherals. i use it for their instrument challenges, and they also have a mode where they randomly fail something in the plane and you need to figure out what do. that sort of stuff
davout: i'm sure you could easily find someone anywhere in the US by hopping onto #pilots or /r/flying
asciilifeform: and, theoretically, the d00d mentioned earlier -- also. but he had no plane. and last i knew had taken 'vow of poverty', became academic.
davout: they won't even be legally allowed to charge you more than splitting the airplane rental costs
trinque: there's also the difference in experience: walk into hangar, leave. some factor the anal examination into the cost of going by airline.
asciilifeform: at uni i roomed with an old friend, who dreamed of flying, ended up practicing with xplane, studying like maniac, paid his 20k, got the license, then bought, instead of airplane... a ship. which is afaik rusting in port still.
davout: if you just want to hold the stick at cruise, and do some turning and going up and down, you can just go with any private pilot
asciilifeform: phf: you have the joystick, pedals, etc. also ?
asciilifeform: if you were to go ~every week~ (why???) then yes, save a few pennies. but then your life expectancy is a few years.
asciilifeform: i can do the study, hell, buy the machine, but i've nowhere to go in it. at some point might do it anyway when i get sufficiently bored and tired of living.
phf: but anyway, it's fun. not quite the same as a sim, i've no idea what these people are on about, but worth it if you have the cash. in fact if you can stretch 10k over a year, getting a license is not a bad idea
asciilifeform: (not that there is anything wrong with studying how to drive big rig)
phf: ha, then i know where you are
asciilifeform: actually i live literally across the street from amateur airport.
phf: dc is kind of shitty that they (very few flight schools closebuy, with a lot of wealthy people learning to fly), but there was airport near philly where you could flag any of their instructors and they'd love to fly you around however long you want whether or not you commit to you "recreational" license
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582570 << you also have "intro classes" that'll run you $150 or so with a reputable firm for half hour. i'm sure those same instructors would bring up the plane more than once under similar circmustances: you get to sit in the cockpit and "hold the joystick" at cruising
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 15:53 mircea_popescu: ^ that part gotta be in the logs.
thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582703 >> p. sure this is related http://trilema.com/2013/youre-the-guy-who-wasnt-good-enough-to-sling-dope/
asciilifeform: (boeing is the one exception i know of, it had a genuine history earlier, even a brief airline monopoly -- but then absorbed also)
mircea_popescu: this being the destructive idiocy of eating bad money - you're left without a company.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 15:33 mircea_popescu: if trump had any sense, lockheed, northrop & friends are FULLY defunded the same day, and are allowed the mercy to perhaps beg for SOME SMALL PORTION of re-funding, maybe, someday.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform were you asking for him to hit the lizzards where it hurts ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582487 << to expand on this : such a model would actually do away with the browser altogether ; just discuss with servers in something like an extended irc client. (yes yes i know, emacs.)
asciilifeform: http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2016/12/lockheed-martin-stock-trump-tweet-wipes-2-billion-dollars/ << in other lulz
mircea_popescu: ^ that part gotta be in the logs.
mircea_popescu: ovel as they think it is, where they can make mistakes without being corrected by people who do know better, where they can reap all the benefits early in life instead of having to work for 40 years first."
mircea_popescu: I believe it takes all kinds to make a working world, but what I find among the modern novices is that they do not feel the same way about the experts -- they want an expert-free world where their ignorance is not painful, where their inexperience is not used against them, where they get all the jokes, where nobody uses literary references that elude them, where every one of their ideas is accepted by their peers as just as n
mircea_popescu: to grow enough facial hair to need to shave daily not only to show off their insufficient beard growth as "hip" but to fill "leadership" positions where they feel threatened by anyone significantly older than themselves and where the inability to /lead/ is replaced by their simple skills at /managing/.
mircea_popescu: "to advance it is at serious odds with the massive glorification of youth. As marketing found itself unable to expand without encroaching upon our childhood, the intense drive to capture the minds of the youngest among us has tended to make people believe that 30 years of experience can be replaced by the young looks of rank novices. This is made worse by the management schools that make it possible for people who have yet
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 12:20 Framedragger: ^ just discovered this. "remove the CRUD", serve APIs directly from postgres. includes user/role/cookie management etc. pretty neat.
mircea_popescu: see alf, all these people proposing an end to usg are such lunatics and dope fiends.
asciilifeform: 'Kokesh has called for a "new American revolution" and has announced plans to run for President in 2020 on the platform of an "orderly dissolution of the federal government."' << pediwik
mircea_popescu: and what prythee is a kokeshist!
jurov: if only randists. there are plenty of kokeshists.
mircea_popescu: " on the Net, people argue about whether year 2000 is a leap year or not, so it's not as if you can rely on the answers you get."
asciilifeform: there are probably somewhere circles where mark karpeles 'has business in as noncrackpot'
Framedragger: hehe, don't know particulars, but it should be noted that he studied philosophy and in some of the circles he had to have business with, ayn rand sorta-has a place as a non-crackpot. hence the (arbitrary, otherwise) particular object of hate
asciilifeform: Framedragger: what other obscure american crackpots does your friend hate
asciilifeform: iirc he realized what was happening to his profession and began to work to leave it, the hard way, by learning an actual 'liberal profession' etc. but ended up leaving it 'the easy way'
Framedragger: [that reminds me, i bought a postcard of ayn rand and am yet to send this to a friend who is in full hate mode of her stuff. need to get this done for the festive season...]
asciilifeform: he also vagabonded around usa as a young man, was involved in aynrandism, then was cured, and left.
mircea_popescu: i suspect most of dood's life happened inside his skull. because that's the proboem with "make it easy for beginnertards" : it NECESSARILY also makes it hard for naggums.
asciilifeform: most of the d00d's life happened offline, in commercial world, is my understanding.
asciilifeform: it remains possible that it was there -- and i lost it.
asciilifeform wonders how much of 'naggumism' actually exists in the written word, and how much -- as a synthesis in his head
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 12:49 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't say you must. "when you design for the novice in the sense of trying to lie to them about their inferiority, you are stuck with that lie and it gets ever more expensive to maintain"
asciilifeform: sql, emacs, vi, similar animals, survive indefinitely not the least because they are relics - for all their flaws - from the age of men; and have ~ 0% monkeycode
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 12:35 trinque: why the fuck can't I name and reuse "joins" in SQL ?
mircea_popescu: the point holds though - correct db should also be fs
trinque: sad that SQL the horror squatted such useful space.
asciilifeform slowly eating the log
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582523 << consider this, if there were a non-idiotic db system, it would be your filesystem also!
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 12:27 mircea_popescu: and on this model, you can expose all the dbs directly.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-13#1582504 << this sounds like a terrible idea. directly expose what amounts to 100s of MB of crapolade code by heathens, rather than 1pg by actual person ?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: quick unrelated q: in phuctor, do the phuctored debianized keys appear in /phuctored ? from what i recall and understand, all of them are there. and one wouldn't have to look at /sadmods or /dupes - correct?
mircea_popescu mostly uses nano these days, so whatevs!
mircea_popescu: so then.
mircea_popescu: depends what you use it for. if you msotly use an editor to create de novo text, not good fit. if you mostly use editor to adnotate other people's text, very good fit.
asciilifeform: hey if it had theoretical economy, i'd consider it (periodically i go and actually consider, and find that i have to press literally 500x more button)
asciilifeform: whereas modern vi, if you were to roll in all of the pieces i actually use in daily life (e.g., correct autoindent AND colourization for 50+ languages) it will probably weigh what emacs weighs
mircea_popescu: so a) use vim ; b) there's a humongo economy of strokes, at the cost of muscle memory, if youy care. if you don't car,e go ahead.
mircea_popescu: "de" = ctrl+shift+left then delete. cmon.
asciilifeform: it is mindblowing that vi, that abortion, still is in use. i can only grasp this in light of the alternative being emacs, equally horrid in exactly opposite ways.
mircea_popescu: so map them.
mircea_popescu: well so then what are you talking about! modal.
mircea_popescu: nono. on old sinclair, first you get the "cursor" into the right mode, THEN you type.
asciilifeform: they ain't a 'mode'
asciilifeform: refers specifically to the idiocy of vi
asciilifeform: modal means you can get stuck in some mode where text isn't going on the screen
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 12:31 jurov: since the vim plugin is written in python, one needs to be wizard in both py and lisp to fix it
mircea_popescu: very much better than anything on tap these days.
mircea_popescu: at the time it was, go to serbia shoot muslims and have grateful sex with the rescued hussies.