BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Anyways the solution to the "wheels for alf" problem is he needs three 1990's Lexus IS 300's from which to construct a one superior example.
ben_vulpes: control, escape, meta these are all swappable between hands on my setup
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you wanna give him the code or what ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well no, i get a ftp and a wwb for the trouble.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: AHA, these things pete_dushenski is raving about are stricly Canadian thing.
mircea_popescu: therefore bot commands will be known as fucksticks.
mircea_popescu: nope. when typing commands i use the right for the right shift, the fuck finger for ! and the index for whatever else.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: don't you hold shift with the left?!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes don;t you hold shift with the right ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: a man with two hands upon the kb will more easily type !)
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> eh bull. you've got $8000 hyundai and mitsu shitboxen. << Maybe in Double Norte Americano, but in Single Norte Americano those left in the 1990's
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i mean in the bot thing on your site.
a111: Logged on 2016-02-02 15:53 ascii_butugychag: so there's a proggy i've been testin'
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: there's also this idea, prevalent and very much the norm in car industry, of 'dealer may sell for less'.
mircea_popescu: 1. user says !%cred ; 2. mimisbrunnr replies with link to rsa-encrypted user/pass/url combination for, eg, a ftp session ; 3. if i share the url, i share the url, with whoever i want ; 4. you meter and bill ; 5. !%destroy kills it
pete_dushenski: phf: asciilifeform my research says that the nissan micra less than cad$10k, which is about $usd7.5, but sadly for you both, our good friend carlos ghosn saw fit not to sell it to you lot. sfyl ?
mircea_popescu: well evidently the tmsr-rsa isn't ready, so i'm guessing ad interim a scheme like this could work
ben_vulpes: "rsync-like" has rather a few assumptions baked in
mircea_popescu: basically all you have to get together is a rsync-like and an elastic store/web infrastructure.
ben_vulpes: uci by any other name...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i'm not altogether certain how it'd work, but basically i'd like it if mimisbrunnr allowed me to buy storage on wotpaste. i could pay from trinque 's deedbot once it's done ; and i should be able to buy by the gb of storage or by the tb of traffic.
phf: cheapest i found was 18k for some of the kia models
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: you've heard of car dealerships ? they're like computer stores, except for cars.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: link to the 8k auto plox, i could use this
pete_dushenski: so not quite $5k dacia logan, admittedly, or tata nano, but ustards literally pay less for cars than anywhere else in the world accounting for currency.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: where do i buy these
asciilifeform: auto loan is one of the whales on which the elephants stand, right down there with real estate racket.
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: Sadly, It's True. The Electric Trabant Is Real. | WIRED: <https://www.wired.com/2009/09/electric-trabant/>; Trabant nT - The Project - Trabant nT: <http://www.trabant-nt.de/365/en/the-project.aspx>; Trabant nT - The Project - Your Opinion: <http://www.trabant-nt.de/375/en/the-project/your-opinion.aspx>
mircea_popescu: trabant would actually be a great brand under which to roll up all the vc/sv "revolutionary tech"
pete_dushenski was always one of those weird 'car guys' who fancied the machinations of the industry more than the greasy bits.
pete_dushenski: in addition to his dual-ceo jobs at renault and nissan, ghosn also recently took over managing the fumbling mitsubishi, of which his alliance now owns a third.
pete_dushenski: but yea, ghosn's quite the boss.
pete_dushenski: of that same visionary calibre, but these latter two stepped down in the last couple of years (from ford and vw, respectively). i'm not persuaded that the rest of the lot, even say sergio marchionne, are anything more than bankruptcy artists slithering from swindle to swindle.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: carlos ghosn is understandably well known in the auto industry. he's a true lebzilianenchman (lebanese-brazilian-frenchman), meaning he has a strong aesthetic sense but he's also quite the fierce deal-maker. only in the last 5 years has akio toyoda risen to ghosn's level as an overall strategist, product developer, and brand manager. alan mullaly and martin winterkorn were the only other two
BingoBoingo: Nah, eventually the ice cracks, refreezes, and gets cloudy.
BingoBoingo: Aha, trinque gets it. The outdoor null set!
trinque: the peace of nobody else being outside is - at least for a city dweller - lovely. no such respite in the south.
BingoBoingo: The summertime plague of "100 and 100" is worse by far.
BingoBoingo: It's not enjoyable, but it is normal. Far from being "the worst"
mod6: that ice-rain stuff is the worst.
BingoBoingo: Oh, the joys of living in small town land. In anticipation of freezing rain, the "city" sprinkled the good BLUE ice melt on hills.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the problem of very long lived actinides (like iodine 129) is certain to eventually drive burner designs. even if they're run as two separate installatiosn as currently the case for some insane reason (really, germany burns up uranium in light water reactor, then ships the leftover by train to france to be reburned in a special burner. could have done all in one place but hey.).
mircea_popescu: that 2nd lobe will change the economics, but in decades from now.
mircea_popescu: current used types are yet cheaper ; mostly because uranium turned out to be more plentiful than anyone realised in the 50s, and because the cost of waste storage is not properly accounted.
mircea_popescu: tis not so plain an' simple as all that alfie. notwithstanding that yeah, prolly breeder reactors are going to take over as we run out of space to put the waste ; nevertheless they're more expensive an' complicated and etc. simply larger bar.
Framedragger: ahh. i guess in the same vein, "stop what you're doing iran because it's weapons, and wrong"
asciilifeform: they are always great for a lolball.
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha the 'we'll pretend breeder reactor never happened so to prop up petroworld' folx.
BingoBoingo: Final possibility is in 10,000 years theme park erected on site and site not having been breeched is a sucess.
BingoBoingo: Other scenarios include compulsively drilling robots, and Roger Verian treasure seekers.
BingoBoingo: Gold: "A Feminist World"an future energy company, the Feminist Alternative Potash Corporation, wishes to mine for salts in the WIPP site. Although the team comes across the warning signs, once it becomes clear that they were written by a group consisting of mostly older white men, they dismiss them."
trinque: if we're doing "where I come from", "shut up about your feelings regarding the person and get to the meat", was it.
trinque: I did not have a crisis of self over learning the reasoning behind the current design of WoT db.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 17:35 asciilifeform: one problem that purveyors of sad-schmuck 'maths' chronically suffer from is the expectation that a consistent model has to mesh with naive child's conception of 'N apples' arithmetic.
mircea_popescu: in any case - mental models of logic, as with mental models of anything found in nature -, are approximations. the same mechanism that allows a guy to isolate 0* from null.predicate allows one all sorts of psycho-imunological responses that are rather requisite to maintain the subjective notion of the self ~in a format comprehensible to itself~!
mircea_popescu: if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
asciilifeform: nobody afaik tries to play table tennis by tying racket to his cock, but for some odd reason various folx walk around mathematicizing with the same undisciplined organ they hallucinate the self with
mircea_popescu: yes. derps at dept of state GENUINELY BELIEVE that they "did what they had to" in mosul and the russians are being evil criminals in aleppo.
Framedragger: okay. can you give an example? "for the self" is too continental-philosophy ;)
mircea_popescu: what some psychologists then turn around and measure as "integration". but in any case, it's trivially evident that ~the world~ may be good or bad, but not the subject. observable at all scales, from the freeranged girlfriend of your choice to the us propaganda discussing aleppo/mosul.
mircea_popescu: i mean there's a set of expectations (this is what an ontology, ie, list of items and predicates, always is) for the self ; and ANOTHER one for the world.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: as regards that particular point, you are probably right. but what do you mean by "i-ontology"? the latter becomes wibbly-wobbly
mircea_popescu: it's just whether one is inclined to allocate either both of these domains to i-ontology, or just one of them.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger we need no such thing, "0" means the same in the language of the commutative ring R as "nill" means in the natural language above.
mircea_popescu: it's not just that computing isn't thought ; what happens in the brain is also not reason. as far as the logic is concerned things may be whatever they are, but in the objective development of the subject there's an i-ontology and a world-ontology. this disjunction is or is not resolved in time ; but from the subjective development it was never a problem in the first place.
Framedragger: because first of all these are not the same thing. we would first have to introduce, say (as an example), peano arithmetic atop set theory, and go from there. "multiplication" is a diff beast. why not division? etc etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this distinction stands at the very root of naive notions of "i'm creative" vs "i'm good with math"
asciilifeform: how come nobody barfs from multiplications by 0 yielding same result no matter what is the multiplicand, but predicates being true under the null set -- different matter ??
Framedragger: (and just for the record, i'm interpreting any remarks by anyone here charitably, assuming no snide, and trying to be snide'y myself.)
Framedragger: here's a compressed internal model: "mircea_popescu wants truth-conditions of predicates in set theory to abide by a kind of falsification-based criterion."
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you don't so far find it to be an idea altogether, as best it can be determined.
BingoBoingo: Framedragger: Then don't linger in any null sets?
mircea_popescu: there's an ancient quote about the wine vessel aleph of a party, with 3+ being the breaking of furniture
asciilifeform: or the pythagoreans
mircea_popescu: i really appreciate though that this topic can still get the blood going. you should see what it did to the monks of 1016.
asciilifeform: also folx regressing to the use of wot as reddit upvote ?
mircea_popescu: dude what are you on about. ontological economy of the null set ?
Framedragger: i don't know how a logician can entertain the latter. well, many things can be entertained, but it's not exactly.. how shall i put it.. ontologically economic?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 17:13 mircea_popescu: as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if i can prove you can't (which i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
phf: i usually just switch context when stupid shit is said, but this time i politely pointed it out, which tbh produced an opposite effect of what i expected. in polite circles when somebody goes as far as to point out that somebody is confused, it's an invitation for further introspection, not to loudly double down.
Framedragger: but then if you want to entertain the latter "check if any *does not obtain*", you will have a "empty set if holder of *all* properties"
asciilifeform: and hey remember when cantor and kronecker derated each other..
mircea_popescu: amusingly all null sets are the same set.
Framedragger: anyway, i agree that there is a way to construct an "every" so that given a null set, it spits out true. however, "every" of what? usually there's a predicate, and then the way you'd test "every" with a predicate is that you run that predicate on every element encountered. and you test that it *obtains*, not that it *does not obtain*.
mircea_popescu: i think it's a fabulous testament on the very matters at hand that the ~only guy who has a very introspective, quiet, slow and complete approach to thinking/speaking got derated for emotionals.
trinque appreciated the discussion, learned.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: notice, the "all" in python takes a predicate
mircea_popescu: so then, goofyness.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger what's the definition of every for null set ?
Framedragger: wtf is this shit anyway. even if it's a logical operator, and then, look: it's an AND underneath. and you all know the very-noncontroversial truth-table for AND. true iff for every member, predicate applies. NOT vice-versa falsification goofyness.
mircea_popescu: "the avoidance of suffering can never be a point of policy, seeing how the simplest solution is immediate mass extermination." AND "consensus can never be the basis of action because the null set always agrees."
Framedragger: another non sequitur
trinque: what was never volunteered in the thread is the practical usefulness of the behavior as seen in the programming language mentioned
mircea_popescu: i still love the captatio of that sort of guy. it always reduces to "here we show this is controversial". as if THIS has some sort of merit or value.
asciilifeform: see, e.g., the cantor crackpot i linked in last week's l0gz. 'oh noez, infinities!11'
asciilifeform: one problem that purveyors of sad-schmuck 'maths' chronically suffer from is the expectation that a consistent model has to mesh with naive child's conception of 'N apples' arithmetic.
mircea_popescu: the core of it being that computing is not thought.
mircea_popescu: ((and mp was never as unimpressed with chomski as he was when the guy tried to deploy a cantor proof lite without saying so.))
mircea_popescu: anyway. for completeness let it be stated that perceived problems of thought-computing mismatch are thoroughly a matter of perception, and in principle can not be fixed (other than fixing the perception). it's the fundamental problem of "ai", as derided often enough here (see the "what if you name the procedures something other than "understanding" etc ; see also chomski's attacks on "ai" centered on the constructed repeating
mircea_popescu: fortunately, the people who like to solve theoretical problems of though/action mismatch moved on from logic and are doing "policy" nao.
phf: i just found this thing, and this should've been that, and that should've been the other, va a fare in culo! :E
mircea_popescu: this duality then makes it a fine candidate for a "prime mover", which bothered the scholastics immensely, because they, much like the scholastics-lite version of smith in the us say, wanted to intercede their own agent in there, so he could do things and therefore their derpitude could matter.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem generally is that "all things" have an ontology and a gnoseology, which is separate and so trivially separable even the greeks were privy to it (hence plato's ideal objects) ; except for the void, which is AT THE SAME TIME the absence of ontology and the plenarity of gnoseology. which is to say, the same "thing" at the same time doesn't exist (ie, as nil) and implies everything (ie, as "false").
mircea_popescu: the proposition "four is a prime number" doesn't stand, because a factor is known ; the proposition "this and this rsa key is made of two primes" stands, but is not known to be true.
phf: you're not asking for falsehood, when you're asking for nil-ness, so semantic confusion that arises from using same symbol for both concepts is almost always a theoretical problem. and when it's not, like in other situations of semantic ambiguity you can choose to be more precise. luckily people who like to solve theoretical problems of thinking-computing mismatch have moved away from lisp and are doing haskell now
Framedragger: maybe there could be an empirical-tmsr-set-theory thing :) but for logical analysis, that's weird imo. for one, ontological arguments in regards to god's existence may gain more grounds.
Framedragger: that's all well and good when you can enumerate countable set elements exhaustively / have firm grasp of a term's extension, but what if you don't - any predicate stands true until shown otherwise?
Framedragger: suddenly karl popper in set theory? :O *suspicious*
mircea_popescu: as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if i can prove you can't (which i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
Framedragger: (imho lisp's use of nil as false *is* incorrect, even if you disagree with "every member of the empty set had blue hair" having to be true. it *is* an unholy confusion, falsehood != nil.)
mircea_popescu: well part of the problem is that nil can't be used to mean anything other than nil./
trinque: I understand the difference, was saying lisp *should* have a separate false.
mircea_popescu: all sentences spring from a false ; but nothing springs from the nil.
trinque: so how do we get across the bridge from "the empty set has no members" to "every member of the empty set had blue hair" being true?
mircea_popescu: trinque perhaps the cheapest way to visualise the difference between nil and falsehood is to contrast "ex nihilo nihil" with the value table for false-implication.
mircea_popescu: note however that many languages (which aren't english) allow purely constructive usage ; such as adjectival forms constructed from nouns, the noun of a verb and the verb of a noun and so following. depending on semantics bagumpa is blerpy could well have a truth value - if say your definition of is includes an equivalency class for all elements starting with the same letter.
Framedragger: note, strawson, frege would say that the king of france *expression* fails to provide a *(logical) proposition*. i.e., it does not have one. imho this is a valid thought, i.e. the matter is not 100% clear.
trinque: is this a "the void has all properties" thing ?
mircea_popescu: i know it's commonly taught as equivalent, but saying "x doesn't have an y" is not the same as saying "x's y is nil"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger if your semantics allows for it. whether they do or don't is not the same as the truth-value BEING nil however.
Framedragger: (ruseell's theory of definite descriptions says "yes", other frameworks say "not necessarily")
Framedragger: so all statements have truth-values, then?
Framedragger: re. asking questions involving properties which do not exist, hah this is something that russell was actually battling with. what is the truth-value of the statement "the present king of france is bold"? some would say it does not have a value (because the term "present king of france" does not have a referent); russell would say "false".
mircea_popescu: trinque aha, that lulzy "nature abhors a vacuum" theory hottie is shown demonstrating for yul brenner's "children" comes from right here.
mircea_popescu: but nil isn't on the possible results list.
trinque: were ther a distinction between nil and false, I would expect (and) -> nil (and f) -> f
mircea_popescu: the problem comes back to the very naive christian notions of the moral value of the void.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584114 << that's fine, except that the empty list is nil which is used as false.
a111: Logged on 2016-03-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: upon consideration, i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage kakobrekla's bizarre worldview. on the contrary, i view further involvement with the nonsense as considerable moral hazard, and a miserable thing to do altogether.
phf: dropbox is finally discontinuing public folder. "we’ve built even better ways for you to share securely and work together with your team." what a load of shit. literally the best feature they had was unmediated ~/pub/. the "better ways" they are referring to is a web 2.0 style "USE DROPBOX CLIENT (or click here to download directly like some kind of loser)"
BingoBoingo thinking about building new, proper editor's desk in late Q1 or Q2 next year. Debating between oak, structural grade "southern yellow pine", and mixed wood
mircea_popescu: (also you're not held to be more rigorous than the attendance supports, irl)
Framedragger wonders how "let's axiomatize from set theory, frege/russell style" would go for 1st year students tho :p
mircea_popescu: math ~in terms of~ set theory ; or functionals (as the math thing, not as the cs thing) ; as opposed to computering.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the point is, what do you build the discipline ~around~. it's a linguistic choice, of the level of "we'll write this in basic or php".
Framedragger: (fwiw UK unis appear to decently cover basics of ZF set theory in CS classes, too, so at least there's that)
thestringpuller: i thought most engineering schools wouldn't allow you to use calculators for math classes? We weren't allowed to use anything but our brains for all Math even DiffEq. I think statistics was the only class where there was an exception.
mircea_popescu: either functional analysis or set theory are sound basis for mathematical study, rather than applied algorithmics or w/e you'd call it.
mircea_popescu: yes, there's some flavour involved but good lord.
mircea_popescu: i don't teach math by computer either. it's like teaching cooking by washing socks.
phf: surprisingly! fwiw at moscow state evening math school you didn't start with programming. for a couple of years the classes were physics, math and boolean logic. programming in C with frbrgeorge was considered an advanced class and the only ~actual touching of computer~ class
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this is becoming ever more interesting as the great again summoning will probably imply something that to the japanese will seem like us unreliability creating a disparity with china wrt nukes.
mircea_popescu: for the same money, pornstar + biofermenter == electricity enough for some microseconds of porn watching
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 01:17 asciilifeform: there is, in archive, a letter from general groves to truman stating, plainly, that there will not be REMOTELY enough U for bomb.
mircea_popescu: (and in the list of "great western pravda" achievements : japan requested uranium oxide from germany (the great blessings of shinto - japan has no fucking resources of any kind), who shipped it via sub, except the sub surrendered once germany surrendered. and the us agitprop claimed it was... "catalyst for use in the production of synthetic methanol for aviation fuel". because totally, the zeros flew on methanol. (uranium dio
Framedragger: funny you should say that, much-upvoted HN frontpage article right nao: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/science/scientists-say-they-can-reset-clock-of-aging-for-mice-at-least.html?referer=https://pay.reddit.com/r/science/comments/5ijdkz/in_the_first_attempt_to_reverse_aging_by/
asciilifeform: the hilarious part is that the ~actual~ impetus for the funding was lizards who understood that eventually someone ~will~ find a way to gas'em; and as soon as it became clear that the antidote will not remove all sequelae from gassing, the funding -- evaporated.
Framedragger: i agree, and there is the whole utilitarian framework to be considered in specific instances, such as, "make bloodmoney now, to be invested for quantifiably more good later", etc.; still, it's a nuanced thing...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least they're coherent, "anti-missile shield is not a nuclear weapon". sure it isn't.
asciilifeform: 'professional ethics' in usg schmuckdom is a ball of lulz. for instance, when asciilifeform was slaving for usg, he worked in the chemical weapons program. which of course he could not have worked in, because nixon cancelled it, and asciilifeform was never 'security cleared' !!11111 but oh, apparently ~antidotes~ are not weapons! despite the obvious use for the type of antidote that was funded (eat it, release gas, then fight without
Framedragger: (that being said, /me considers working part-time in the future to come, and working more on personal/worthy projects on the side. i don't know how asciilifeform is tmsr-productive while doing other stuff full-time - maybe i should go on a modafinil diet heh)
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 22:00 gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: fuck participating in the usg web / github / CC economy etc.
Framedragger: (it may however be noted that lacking material wealth, the extreme case of the above appears to be gabriel_laddel (http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570190); and i *do* prefer to have a friggin' mailing address; and there are places to work which do not do heaven-important things, but are not microshit, either; i.e., there's a spectrum.)
mircea_popescu: there's no way to fix this other than "don't work for https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fe/de/d0/feded087bb5b76da57473b6e7078ffaf.jpg )
asciilifeform: is the point though. someone was to end up with it, and that someone would have been a socialist throne of whichever colour.
mircea_popescu: not really the point, is it.
mircea_popescu: who, incidentally, mostly all figured out what a horrible sin it was to deliver the socialists the bomb.
mircea_popescu: japan got buldozed chiefly because of the utterly immoral attitude of thinking people at the time.
mircea_popescu: on which note i should wish to muchly encourage the ~competent~ youth to not fear "suicide" of this nature. it's a control artefact implanted by the socialist motherhood for their detriment, a sort of imaginary pain box of the bene gesserit. there's no reason to even HAVE a "group of women who don't fuck" as a political entity, let alone ridoinculous imaginary boxes.
mircea_popescu: he was wrong on one point, re the "political suicide". not that the niggers aren't PRETENDING of course, but their pretense aside my credit's evidently better than clinton's.
mircea_popescu: this has A LOT to do with the mechanisms discussed in http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/ ; and so unsurprisingly the us marxists came up with all sorts of funny theories as to what "japan was really like" economically.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger there's a lot of interesting stuff at the "western world" - japan interface. japan being, of course, the only non-european industrialised country. but it doesn't stop there - when the whole socialist world went up in flames in the 20s, japan was doing absolutely fine ; even made a bundle speculating the loser's currencies.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: the way*
Framedragger: well there's no cert *outside* mozilla dir. maybe it's the ubuntu's organized. fresh install, don't ask...
Framedragger: https://www.schrauger.com/the-story-of-how-wosign-gave-me-an-ssl-certificate-for-github-com << ffs i have these jokers in my ca list now. need to go through it and remove shit.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile they give professional company sinkers credit. carly fiorina, this tracy lorde of us business, singlehandedly destroyed two functional companies.
Framedragger: gotta love the empire's press and resulting ignorance
Framedragger: operating margins consistently above 9%—more than twice the industry average." << wow
Framedragger: "In the first year of the Nissan Revival Plan, Nissan's consolidated net profit after tax climbed to $2.7 billion for fiscal year 2000, from a consolidated net loss of $6.46 billion in the previous year. Twelve months into his three-year turnaround plan, Nissan had returned to profitability, and within three years it was one of the industry's most profitable auto makers, with
mircea_popescu: the greatest skill is to turn down byzantine crap a la gm or ford. "oh great opportunity". heh, for THEM, maybe. they want to suck your juju, to extend their lifespan for a few short extra weeks WITHOUT CHANGING substantially. that's the fucking problem.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the greatest skill in the world isn't to you know, get named head of michelin south america reporting directly to francois michelin and then turn it around in a coupla years.
mircea_popescu: fortune "gave him" some "best in business ~OUTSIDE OF US~" title, in typical byzantine style of "our nose's so upturned if it rains we drown" ; but then both gm and ford begged him to take them on (and he didn't. why didn't he ? is it because no great again possible in the us according to the people who specialize in great agains ?)
mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of nothing in particular, everyone heard of carlos ghosn ? quite the fellow.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 12:47 mircea_popescu: literally, for the cost of installing gimp you get what ammounts to a visual repl.
Framedragger: i guess one should standardise terms here. the larger number corresponds to "something's running there" servers, found via 1st scan phase. the lower 15M number corresponds to "actually speaks ssh protocol" servers, found via 2nd (ssh-keyscan) scan phase.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: the 20M or so servers which responded to TCP SYNs sent to port 22. however, out of those, about 5M (or however many) did not respond to ssh handshakes, hence the lower number in the banners and phuctor payloads.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 10:52 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583915 << whoops, correction: these contain all the >20M IPs answering to port 22. (otherwise these would be redundant cf. banner CSVs).
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 10:45 Framedragger just discovered http://trilema.com/2012/the-mpex-rota/ - pretty neat. i take it this expensive experiment had been thus discontinued :)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583917 << it was expensive especially in human terms ; broke a few fingers off people who otherwise were well meaning and willing to try and help.
mircea_popescu: literally, for the cost of installing gimp you get what ammounts to a visual repl.
mircea_popescu: actually i would propose it's a very fine way if not the best way to learn lisp.
mircea_popescu: do yourself a favour learn how to use gimp.scheme ; you will never look at graphics with the same eyes again.
mircea_popescu: i swear gedit is like the emacs of the art world. once you learn how to use its lisp parts you can never leave.
Framedragger: wait i'm checking. there's a chinese root authority there... maybe package name denoted something else... still, who in their right mind?...
mircea_popescu: the third most commonly seen ssh protocol is a misspelling of the most common one pushed out by mistake years ago!
Framedragger: uh. how about, fuck your mother
mircea_popescu: what fucking foss. there is no foss. microsoft is the natural structure of ustards and everyone taking after them ; which is to see in a hurry to see results and in no particular mood to examine the quality thereof.
mircea_popescu: irl, there's ssh 2.0 and ssh 2. 0 ; and ~one implementation, by a known-bad team.
mircea_popescu: this is a fucking issue ffs. if the world worked like FOSS ~pretends it worked~ then we'd have LIKE HALF A DOZEN ssh protocol definitions ; which'd still interoperate ; and from hundreds to just one implementations of each of those. by distinct people in distinct teams.
mircea_popescu: which is why like half of malware is hosted there
mircea_popescu: if you do it for say 10 seconds, well doh, they allow it.
Framedragger: (oh oh, and also trying out masscan (the first-stage scanner, i.e. the one which sends TCP SYNs) with maybe 30-100k packets per second stable))
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Library Genesis / LibGen - The Meta Library - Sites - Google: <https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis>; Library Genesis - Reddit: <https://www.reddit.com/r/libgen/>; Libgen.cc: <http://libgen.cc/>
mircea_popescu: so it is somewhat moot. they might as well advertise microsoft powerclip + yahoo briefcase as a solution, for all the difference it'd make.
mircea_popescu: i honestly don't know anyone (who is someone, i don't mean kids with no money, no power and no value dicking about ; and who isn't actually nsa) is still using the thing.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah, good point. well the hosting provider is ~shitty and quality of bw offered is not great (OVH), but it *does* make a more-or-less successful attempt at providing an actual full duplex 100 mbps, which isn't a lot, but still decent to my liking. so at least there's that.
mircea_popescu: it's about equivalent to mit still pushing ethereum.
mircea_popescu: there's a lesson in this, where being a jwz dun pay. gotta pick sides, loud and clear.
mircea_popescu: shinohai ironically we're also giving up on gpg, for the exactly opposite reason.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger not so much a matter of the webserver itself, the load on that is minimal for large file transfers ; but from experience most hosters offer 1Mbps to 1MBps links unless actually specified. and this is outide of any "intelligent" throttling at the router interface etc.
mircea_popescu checked, about half of that was in the first half hour (thanks god for delayed rss otherwise it'd prolly be within five minutes eh!) so that's like 3MB/s jus' there.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: thanks. in point of fact a blog is now in actual plans, not only oneday-maybewaybe. :) re. capacity to handle, at least the connection is unmetered, and it's just static nginx. but it's not anything big. so this is useful and appreciated.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it's an iffy thing from my pov, because on one hand you know, you did it i should link it ; but on the other i dunno how many people'd click and how well you're set-up for it. anyway if you'd like a blog linked or something do say.
mircea_popescu: all_internet_ssh_banners.txt.tar.gz 109 0 11.16 GB 102.38 MB so far ; not the end of teh world.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 09:39 Framedragger: oh and, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_scan.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_scan.tar.bz2 (note, large files) are the stdout of ssh-keyscan and contains the public keys in raw log format. just for completeness' sake. #actualscientificreplicabilitymotherfuckers
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583914 << btw, i'm hosting a copy of the whole file, so you don't get hammered too badly.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 18:44 mircea_popescu: the sad fact of the matter is that the brain is not a reasoning engine. in a very purely naturalistic, bio-logical way, this is sensible. the practice of "talk to the text, not context or subtext" has become established through moo practice
mircea_popescu: "are {} all the elements of the empty set ?" "yes." "name one such element." "there isn't one."
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583891 << ah great then! ima write post announcing it today, what time works for you ? 17:00 ART ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 09:40 Framedragger: (and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_ip.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_ip.tar.bz2 are all the 15`646`188 ssh IPs for anyone interested.)
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583915 << whoops, correction: these contain all the >20M IPs answering to port 22. (otherwise these would be redundant cf. banner CSVs).
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: obtw, re. http://trilema.com/2016/internet-census-2016/#selection-21.0-21.13 it should probably say "Back in June", as it was june. the second scanning event was in july, but all of phuctor's finds thus far have been from the first scan in june
Framedragger just discovered http://trilema.com/2012/the-mpex-rota/ - pretty neat. i take it this expensive experiment had been thus discontinued :)
Framedragger: (and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_ip.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_ip.tar.bz2 are all the 15`646`188 ssh IPs for anyone interested.)
Framedragger: oh and, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_scan.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_scan.tar.bz2 (note, large files) are the stdout of ssh-keyscan and contains the public keys in raw log format. just for completeness' sake. #actualscientificreplicabilitymotherfuckers
Framedragger: and 2., re. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583653 << asciilifeform: fyi internal line order does *not* map to order of openpgp files - sorry about this. but the filenames and numbers *do* map to parcels previously given. just to be clear.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-15 16:07 Framedragger: (and @all, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/ is the canonical URL for all data gathered from the ssh scans. includes raw stderr logs from ssh-keyscan utility, e.g. http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/s1/1_err_scan.log ; scripts for processing these are http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/write_ssh_banners.py and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/process_all_banners.sh )
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583663 << two small notes: 1. i've now deleted the uncompressed *.log's, everything's in archive format (and raw logs still available of course). just not to waste disk space.
trinque: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19601802/how-does-all-in-python-work-on-empty-lists/19601813#19601813 << great fucking scott, the towering minds.
trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
trinque: pretty hard for me to condemn assad while my ass still sits in the country that sold al qaida chemical weapons to be used, then blamed on assad.
pete_dushenski: https://medium.com/opacity/the-syrian-war-condensed-a-more-rigorous-way-to-look-at-the-conflict-f841404c3b1d#.u85dggdtt (http://archive.is/oBRmn) << taleb on syrian situation. as a civilised sort of fellow, he's pretty staunchly pro-assad despite having plenty of room for personal grievances against the regime.
pete_dushenski: o good. lots of time to prep then. ya, i'm game!
mircea_popescu is off to bed, but we shall continue this discussion tomorrow. along with all the others!
mircea_popescu: anyway, this will be a pretty big one, as far as these go. i imagine it'd soak up 1-2 hrs of your time.