mircea_popescu: if your idea of "i want to spend my dime" reduces to "well, have a mining farm" suddenly the whole thing's ~useless.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-23 18:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the important point there is : the whole fake bitcoin address (3something) is supposed to be "useful" in practice. this utility is supposed to be proven by idiotic "challenges" like this one put up by peter todd. EXCEPT the output does not actually SIGN the transaction claiming the bounty.
mircea_popescu: consider the lulz yesterday with the peter todd imbecile, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-23#1617211
asciilifeform: (if tx can be verified at line rate, nobody can do any more damage using tx flooding than they already can do by flooding your net pipe)
mircea_popescu: again, at the time ppl cpumined on their node-miner-wallet nobody noticed the difference.
mircea_popescu: whereas the bar to participate is txn
asciilifeform: afaik it is one of the only two known steps in that direction (the other being wotronics. and we discussed what a coin that relies ~solely~ on wotronics, and not at all on proof-of-work, might look like.)
asciilifeform: 'if you notice that the world hashrate seems to now equal what you could make out of your kitchen appliances, you are probably on cooknet'
asciilifeform: and isn't that what the proof of work thing was originally about..?
mircea_popescu: most ustards do the later and have no idea.
mircea_popescu: consider the case of the web, also a major application in need of a debottler. how do you know whether you connect ot the internet or to the tomcooknet ?
mircea_popescu: for all you know there's 45 different bitcoins going on right now, separated by a so-far universally permeable membrane.
asciilifeform: why is it necessary for anyone to know the global count of operating nodes
mircea_popescu: i know you'll say "there's one". but can you count ?
mircea_popescu: can you presently count the bitcoin networks that exist ?
mircea_popescu: what we don't really have is the stuff that we really need, such as debottlers.
mircea_popescu: and that's also why the hope of the beta bois whining around "nrx" because "girlz be mean yo" is so well set to be disabused. more market, not less, is the future.
mircea_popescu: that's why i aim to buy the arab girls rather than convert to islam. they can keep their fucking ethnosocialism.
mircea_popescu: it can be priced see. if i wish to pay a ten bitcoin fee, i thereby have the right to make my tx last into the eons
asciilifeform: then solves 'to allcomers', because the cpu cycle cost of eating a tx can be determined in O(1).
asciilifeform: yes but ~require~ the latter ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, no need for "desried block" and "max block" both. just the latter suffices.
asciilifeform: there may exist some way to solve 'castle problem' that doesn't require a tx to stand alone 'for all time'.
mircea_popescu: wasn't so obvious back when ppl cpumined on the single windows binary
mircea_popescu: it inadvertently forces a node-miner tandem ("you don't like the mempopol, fucking mine it already")
asciilifeform: and yes, the man in the besieged castle, would dearly love to broadcast an unexpiring tx, throw it in a glass bottle into the sea, and who knows, it will go to friendly lines
asciilifeform: trinque, mircea_popescu : the reason for my 'want-block' gedankenexperiment, is the 'high vacuum' line of thought from earlier. because any way you cut it, an unexpiring tx is a kind of cheque for unlimited number of cpu cycles from the rest of the world
trinque: would release but the thing doesn't need more legs
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618203 << if the only gpg op in your thing is verification, you can lift code from any of the vtrons, verbatim
mircea_popescu: yeah. it was you know, so clunky and unhip, at the time.
mircea_popescu: incredibly prescient choice on mod6 's part with the .seals design
mircea_popescu: sorry for the mess, which it is.
trinque: mircea_popescu: ah yes I do. I'll need that pgpdump guy, store what's extracted from the key
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to defang gpg, must prevent it from writing to ANYWHERE on disk other than stdout
mircea_popescu: othewrwise you'll feed it to people, see ?
mircea_popescu: trinque it's more than that. must make sure the pubkey you wrote includes nothing but itself. one modulus.
trinque: whereas now I'm asking the keyring
trinque: mircea_popescu: right, register in this case would write a pubkey somewhere once, and always use that as the nick:key association
asciilifeform: this would abolish bbet-like 'dr.evil sat on this tx until convenient moment, then mined it' when desired.
mircea_popescu: trinque my concern was more in the vein of, i don't want deedbot to answer with an item crafted as described to a !!key command
asciilifeform: now let's work same example in hypothetical 'needs want-block'. there you would simply have to sign 2 tx, with same payload other than 'want-block', neh ?
mircea_popescu: which'd have required me to ~know something~ about the fake network.
mircea_popescu: if the network worked as you describe, i'd have had to choose on which network i wish to spend.
mircea_popescu: let's see. i have a bitcoin. the network forks. i spend the bitcoin. the spend is valid on both networks and thus included by both networks. in different blocks.
asciilifeform: (the gavin-killing device from mircea_popescu's 'missile crisis' piece)
mircea_popescu: because the same txn was acceptable to both fork and real network.
mircea_popescu: see, the fact that you don't have txn as you describe is what allowed me the "you will die if you fork" threat last year : i don't have to know jack about their chain to murder their chain.
asciilifeform: (the only alternative known to me, presently, is the matrix mechanics 'coin' we discussed on a few occasions, and that is 'martian' tech that nobody alive is necessarily qualified to operate )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the unfortunate bit is that having global consensused state (blocks) at all, already does this
mircea_popescu: it suspiciously reinstills socialism in that it creates a very strong incentive for... all castles to... work together. because "first they came for the germans" usual bugaboo of socialist propaganda to try and dissolve the outer membranes of the individual organism's cells.
mircea_popescu: trinque there's all that.
mircea_popescu: somewhat in the same way a retarded child who buys things but always ends up using them as if they were icecream doesn't thereby realise he's retarded.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618154 << it's so funny, at least to me, the sheer wastage of resources usg oligarchs engage in. they keep buying things, which they don't understand, on the expectation that "we;ll find a use for them". they do. it's ALWAYS the same one. somehow the fact that i know in advance what it'll be doesn't inform them as to their horrible strategic position.
trinque: imagining one under attack, it could certainly prevent him from blasting coin to another castle before defeat
asciilifeform: he has to know the actual best-block.
mircea_popescu: whether this is desirable or not is very much an open question, but it is too early yet to weigh on the matter.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the main problem, barely conveyed by the "canned tx" thing, is that if you require the user to know more than his privkey to make a txn, you make usage a higher bar than it is now.
trinque: looser variant only buys you "might get into alternate next-block, otherwise regrind"
asciilifeform: in the stricter variant -- not
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: under the don't-need-antecedent-hash -- yes, you could
mircea_popescu: could make them in 1k block increments say
trinque: same deal, better watch the chain to know your txn actually happened
trinque: under current circumstances there are also cases where you will have to regrind and rebroadcast your transaction
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform judging by the thing you linked btw, the "harmless radiator" function of urbit is out in full effect.
asciilifeform: the one tricky question i can think of is, how does it behave under reorg.
asciilifeform: scheme is a quite obvious one. but i bet if there is anyone whom this shoe pinches, it'll be mircea_popescu , he will tell us where.
asciilifeform: either verifies (again in O(1) !) or does not
asciilifeform: in given trb-i scheme, a block either exists on disk -- or does not
asciilifeform: locking problems (gotta add tx to index, in current trb, as aggregate -- but the only way to do that is to stop the world! like complete idiot -- every time there is a new block, to prevent situation where there is a partially indexed block available to incoming mempool tx verifier) disappear.
trinque: on the same page; please continue
asciilifeform: and transform the problem into 'how do we keep enemy from jamming the low level transport', which is solved by signed-packets (or mircea_popescu's variant, or similar.)
asciilifeform: this would abolish the 'epicycle' of 'how do we rate-limit crapola'
asciilifeform: to clarify -- in my mind, a 'trb-i' ~must~ be capable of checking validity of tx at wire speed (i.e. at the speed it is physically capable of receiving them) on reasonable iron.
asciilifeform: then -- no cans.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: if this is desirable -- then can use scheme as described. otherwise can also require ~hash~ of the antecedent of the wanted-block.
asciilifeform: and mempool contents would have natural lifespans, as they presently do not.
asciilifeform: however 'bbet scenario' would then also be abolished.
asciilifeform: ('value at birth' naturally implies 'encompassed by the signature')
asciilifeform: a mature (i.e. mined) tx's id will then consist of the concatenation of the block number it lives in (say, 64bit, enough until long after sun burns out), then a 10-bit offset into the block (0..1023) , then hash of payload.
asciilifeform: tx is, e.g., 1024 byte, then 1024 tx live in a block, etc.
asciilifeform: then you have O(1) input-finding.
asciilifeform: a method of bitcoinating where you can actually get ~100% of the socialism out (as contemplated in, e.g., the gossip threads) would, i suspect, be a similar jump.
asciilifeform: there were not so many tech leaps comparable to hard vacuum (which makes possible everything from triode -- ergo, tuned radio, cathode tube, geiger, electron microscopy, 1,000,001 everyday items )
mircea_popescu: "who the fuck cares about navy timekeeping" "hurry up and have children before you're too old to attract a sucker"
mircea_popescu: it's very similar to the marine chronometer problem, in its disproportionate impact
mircea_popescu: only in the making of hard vacuum was the making of hard vacuum learned ; and it fundamentally changed fluid physics (which is more than one immediately realises)
asciilifeform: trb node is, for instance, continuously engaged in the sin of 'something to allcomers'.
asciilifeform: ('hard', for n00bz, i will reminds, is when mean-free-path of particle is longer than the container is wide along any axis)
mircea_popescu: what people think the whole point is scarcely has any bearing.
asciilifeform: as nonsocialism themepark, if you will
asciilifeform: but that was ~whole motherfucking point, even of early bitcoin
mircea_popescu: it's hard, dude. washing out the socialism from the crevices of the boy who lived in socialism is fucking hard.
mircea_popescu: no because government does thart for them hurr.
mircea_popescu: yes. but at the time satoshi was satoshing under that name, people were still pre-bitcoinafrica
asciilifeform: this would handily make the txindex db unnecessary entirely
mircea_popescu: you recall the discussion where you couldn'tr get "advanced sqltron" to read stale ?
asciilifeform: so 'perfect' for 'the web' aka 'thing that does not actually need to work to any spec'
asciilifeform: what, every ddos maggot gets an accurate copy of the item he supposedly reads?
mircea_popescu: for the web it is.
asciilifeform: so probably it isn't '1k/sec' then
mircea_popescu: not every www load hits the db, but more than none do because page layout complexities
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought you had a cachetron in there? or does every www load actually result in db reads
asciilifeform: point being that you can simply switch off reading for the few msec every day that you are actually writing, without causing headache
mircea_popescu: it has slave reads, which makes it WAY BETTER than any other, including progresql or whatever
mircea_popescu: reads, in the 1k/s range i guess. trilema is big.
asciilifeform: so then.
mircea_popescu: 8 years of trilema, never crashed, randomly or otherwise.
asciilifeform: the one that crashes randomly ?
mircea_popescu: (no, the web doesn't have "logins" ffs.)
mircea_popescu: contrary to what hate haters hate, mysql is perfect for the web
asciilifeform: general-purpose db, it turns out, is ALWAYS The Wrong Tool For Every Job (tm) -- like duct tape, and 'visegrip'...
asciilifeform: in other noose, worldwide butthurt re 'oh noez, people won't delete ILLICIT LEAKED SEEKRITZ!111 from crapflare 'bug' !! IRRESPONSIBLE!'
asciilifeform: hey now it'll be ~100% solid 'womenz.' only, the kind with 6 legs.
mircea_popescu lulz at the notion he quit it before it was even cool.
mircea_popescu: o look, stefan molyneux made the list, that chick angie what'sher name didn't.
mircea_popescu: don't begrudge an orc his orcish tongue ; "blockchain principles" is how they say "tmsr made"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the guy doesn't know how to say http://trilema.com/2015/a-proper-social-site-for-the-bdsm-community/
asciilifeform: hey where would the islanders ever have seen airplane made not of straw.
mircea_popescu: a there you go.
mircea_popescu: whatever, they'll be left with boeck and supran tweeting to one another, no great loss
mircea_popescu: lots of people, not just you. and they're all suspicious subversives.
shinohai: Interesting trilema article mircea_popescu ... twitter actually locked my account twice this week over the "auto" stuff, which they refer to as suspicious account activity.
ben_vulpes: publishy, then
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: pretty idle lately , actually, trb is a procrastinatory escape from the hardstuff
mircea_popescu: wait, what's the beaver about ?
ben_vulpes: alf the busy beaver dog
asciilifeform: and wotpaste the output .
asciilifeform: (other gpg retardations -- naturally -- will.)
mircea_popescu: no fixes till then i don't think.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho the smart thing to do with bad olde gpg is to use it as demonstrated in my original vtron -- sans keyring.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/lets-put-one-and-two-together/ << Trilema - Let's put one and two together.
mod6: nice, thanks for the links. i'll keep readin'
asciilifeform: the package system is quite spiffy and rather programmable, you will win from doing some reading.
mod6: what i want to do is write a program that does somethings to not only get a feel for the lang, but also how to use packages.
asciilifeform: http://www.ada-auth.org/arm.html << on this page, there are zip of plain ascii (!!) vers of the ref and rationale, also.
asciilifeform: ( the canonical standards are also on www, http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/ada12.html , download the html to disk and use like lisp folks use clhs)
mod6: ah yah, that's a good list of things. i've got it bookmarked. good to have it in the l0gz again tho.
asciilifeform: mod6: http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/programs << quite possibly the best www resource re subj.
mod6: I already bought that Ada 95 lecture notes book and had it on my shelf. found it there lastnight. heh.
mod6: asciilifeform: cool work on adding the timings for blocks (timer & revealer)
trinque: of course these things needn't have one particular origin
trinque: I'd wager the e was random drift
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: kek predates that
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 02:14 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1617860 << after n years i still am in the dark, re what exactly is a kek, and where to get one
thestringpuller: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1617872 << In world of warcraft alliance and horde factions couldn't talk to each other. So as an alliance player if someone in the horde typed "lol" it would come out "kek". nostalgia :|
ben_vulpes: veen: i share these reservations; d'ya think the t-top'd have been better off without a shroud?
veen: ben_vulpes: not a fan of the car covers myself, accumulates grit, works finish during application and removal, and in any amount of wind
ben_vulpes: upstream of the superfund site, even
ben_vulpes: fenced yard, short walk to island beach, the works!
ben_vulpes: nono, i live in the burbs now!
ben_vulpes: the depths of your suburban hell never cease to amaze, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: not theft
ben_vulpes: now i need to replace it, but from dust accumulation from shithead pressed shitboard 'house' fabricator who infested the lot next door lo this past year
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: suburbia is a plague born of the curse of oil
ben_vulpes: but i would like to for example work on the thing at night, with lights, while dry
asciilifeform: ( i park on city street. yes, with the bulldozers. )
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i know where the heated car storage in town is
asciilifeform: for bonus pointz, make it tally the cumulative time spent in writes
asciilifeform: try the bdb thing.
ben_vulpes: well but then what i am i to complain about
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: also i recommend against any further sweat put into ping-ban patch, it is ~worthless
ben_vulpes: also it is useful to shiv the things in public
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why for the mocking
asciilifeform: Slow Write: : 65218ms << yougettheidea.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 01:32 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the southern poverty law center (mildly famous lefty oppression tools from the 60s) lists "kek" as a dangerous nazy paraphenalia.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 01:32 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the southern poverty law center (mildly famous lefty oppression tools from the 60s) lists "kek" as a dangerous nazy paraphenalia.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1617860 << after n years i still am in the dark, re what exactly is a kek, and where to get one
asciilifeform: why didja link to this, ben_vulpes ? looks like another 'keybase'
asciilifeform: the user during installation. This code is a 128-bit value that can recreate the key material, and can also be used to regenerate the private key on a different device.' << eww
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1617855 >> 'In this initial version, E2EMail hosts its own keyserver. During app installation, it automatically generates an OpenPGP ECC key and uploads the public half to the keyserver. The keyserver accepts it if the user-id in the key matches an OAuth mediated check against the user's email address. The private half is stored locally, but can be regenerated via a secret "recovery code" provided to
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: dudes are so out of their league it's been past funny and back to funny again too many times to count.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the southern poverty law center (mildly famous lefty oppression tools from the 60s) lists "kek" as a dangerous nazy paraphenalia.
mircea_popescu: according to the fake news organisations lel.\
ben_vulpes: also "trump administration bars news organizations from press briefing, replaces them with fake news organizations"
mircea_popescu: eh, they'll pretend to at least.
shinohai: It's terrible not being able to tell fat girls they are fat on twitter. Because if you do, then the hot camgirls hate you too.
pete_dushenski: in other cuts, the latest taleb "surgeons should not look like surgeons" http://archive.is/qqywK
BingoBoingo: Just note for the future that "Bahamas" on its own could be confused for Islands. To reference the dark one, harbringer of suffering one must use "Hussein Bahamas"
pete_dushenski: in other logical conclusion news http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/laid-off-swedish-workers-could-be-given-paid-sex-breaks-improve-well-being-1607836
asciilifeform: looks like my original hypothesis (disk thrash) is supported.
asciilifeform: the db writes.
jurov: https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=Slovakia i finally put up permanent trb node (it's the syncing one), but have nfi about the other two
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1136 << the more typical delay spot; e.g., 109 sec. on block 454532.
mircea_popescu: also a main reason why the discussed wallet separation.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that'd be the disk sensitivity, or most of it anyway.
mircea_popescu: moreover with a little care you can actually fingerprint for things such as "does this node have a tunnel to another one" in this manner.
mircea_popescu: there's three different ways a node can end up in reorg crisscross, and it doesn't even take owning all its connections.
asciilifeform: reorg takes motherfucking forever
mircea_popescu: (ftr, these in order are the two major soaks i am aware of ; whether they manifest for you right here or not)
mircea_popescu: is it the boosted foreach "removefrommemorypool()" ?
asciilifeform: match the args.
mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/jaM2c in other things that just happen and aren't anybody's fault, also known as "inept our democracy diplomacy"
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, british national and ex-guantanamo detainee abu zakariya al britani blew up a car in mosul. which you know, "is being progress made upon", still, six months later. except for the part where isis killed kadim al saeedi, ie one of the few actually competent sand monkeys on the imperial side.
asciilifeform: i got the thing profiling as we speak.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's also a large part of it. there's a bunch of large parts like that.
mircea_popescu: moreover, i'm the one guy time flows favourably for. why wait in 2012 ? because lo, dollar from 50 bitcents to a tenth of a dime in five years.
asciilifeform: in other noose, discovered that the actual contents of a block are 'red herring' re verification, and we're actually looking at idiot lock deadlock
mircea_popescu: of course, if it succeeds i might very well discover in myself an inclination to move over there, spend the next decade going on safari among the "urban elite" for fresh daughters to feed the slave markets.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-15 16:08 mircea_popescu: myeah. things are pretty simple : either peace with russia and therefore war with china ; or else bickering with russia while china continues to fatten unmolested.
mircea_popescu: but if the "impeachment" fizzles like the rest of the libertards' hopes, dreams and aspirations, its rather http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-15#1614023
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, trump finances seem to settle towards a) much larger deficit ; to be employed towards b) "rebuilding america" in the sense of... a much larger military.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the cubifarms, http://68.media.tumblr.com/4a2822eee5e93accda3b4983dd086a89/tumblr_noovhod4LS1uvbtcpo1_400.gif
BingoBoingo: It's been a tough fight, largely against myself, but hopefully I can keep the venom cutting instead of resorting to taking words on top of words
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/02/fire-in-the-security-theater-cloudflare-leaks-as-sha1-broken/ << Qntra - Fire In The Security Theater: Cloudflare Leaks As SHA1 Broken
mod6: asciilifeform: ya, I've seen the 'std::bad_alloc' from ProcessMessage before -- it doesn't happen to me often, and it doesn't seem to be at the point of OOM exactly. i have noticed that it seems to happen after my node has been up for an extended period of time. say >1week.
mircea_popescu: i like how they manage to package tidal locking and orbital harmonics into "a little known theory from 1989". by the same measure fucking is a little known activity from the 70s. if you're at camp with janine garofalo i guess this isn't even so far fetched a description.
mircea_popescu: such gingerly concerns direct the whole of my entire lyf.
mircea_popescu: is this fake science ? i would like to know before i click if some dork in "our democracy" approved these findings.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But if they don't pull it all of the way out, then they just tore the suspending ligament and made it look bigger!
mircea_popescu: the computation of just how bad "science" awareness among the "our democracy" crowds must be that no "ripped penis right out of socket" jokes emanated in twenty years of cancerous male-hating "comedy" is left for the reader.
mircea_popescu: but no. the penis is not joint. it's a single item, goes about a foot inside of oyu.
ben_vulpes: but it's a pin joint at the base and that's pretty weak from a structural perspective
mircea_popescu: they make solid madonna's-bra vinyl diapers now ? like a helment ?
ben_vulpes: hey man i've never tested the buckling load of my own cock
ben_vulpes: worse than being stomped on, dick at least has somewhere to go relative to tiny feet. NO ESCAPE FROM THE DIAPER
mircea_popescu: "my son broke my penis. he's three years old." "well... how good of a penis could you say it was to begin with, then ?"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ahahaha yeah, fatherhood problems.
ben_vulpes: an otherwise gentle and lovely morning with coffee and breakfast in bed, followed by 20+ pounds of micro human determinedly sitting in my lap demanding a book be read him
mircea_popescu: apparently if you hammer enough head can flare enough to tear the fucking foreskin. if it sounds painful it's because it is.
ben_vulpes: i have discovered the worst kind of cock broken
trinque: that's the best kind of cock broken
mircea_popescu: and that's just the not-that-secret-stuff, selections ~.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-21 20:30 asciilifeform: in other noose, as discussed earlier ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577994 ) >> https://archive.is/AVO23 << autodesk bought and destroyed 'eagle', the only fully functioning pcb cad for linux.
ben_vulpes: stack, for the curious: moar tests for v.pl (i'm writing them because my personal heap is too fragmented to make me a useful manual tester), read and compile a large and a small patch from asciilifeform, ops tasks in support of WIRES, gaze into the writhing horror diana_coman needs a lasso around, and somewhere find an hour to finish up the import of phf's logs back to early 2016