mircea_popescu: anyway, the importance of cutting short the gypsy's pretense that he lives in an alt-country ; the grubfilth's pretense that he has an alt-hygiene, the neoprotestant's pretense that he has an alt-religion (discoivered it himself, he did!) and so on is key. a "vegan" is not someone who "has an alternative cookbook" but an imbecile who doesn't know how and what to eat. and so on.
mircea_popescu: the one true merit of philosophy.
mircea_popescu: perhaps "if you had to" you'd climb to infinity on the left rather than descend to infinity on the right. but inasmuch as it's a nonsensical construction, the counterfactual will stay nonfactual.
mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear you've there depicted anymore than an escherian stairwell.
asciilifeform: if i had to pick between, e.g., jonathan swift's, lice, or the life of homo walmarticus, it would not be a hard choice to go with the former
mircea_popescu: do you have any ? the planet uranus is also "a fact of life", in some distant sense.
asciilifeform: 'lice are fact of life' is a notion, not merely the absence of one
mircea_popescu: chick that has no fucking idea she should wash isn't part of "the unwashed culture", she's part of nothing.
mircea_popescu: the ~presence~ of artefacts doth make a civilisation ; the same presence of notions makes a culture. the absence of objects does not make "the alternative civilisation of africa consisting of not having anything". absence is not a thing.
mircea_popescu: which is why they burn so well.
mircea_popescu: you can't speak of "the native culture" for exactly this reason. the indians have no culture, and inasmuch as they do not, they're not people.
mircea_popescu: thereby, gravestones, civilisation, poetry, culture, engines, civilisation, cooking recipes, culture, and so following.
asciilifeform: the louse is small, but mass, he has.
mircea_popescu: to understand our anthropology basics : if the item has mass, it is a proper subject of civilisation ; if the item doth not have mass, it is a matter of culture.
mircea_popescu: they're uncivilised louts ; today as whenever. it is after all a fucking colony, not a real place, neh ?
mircea_popescu: misinformed ninnies may be confused as to the exact spelling of "trilema", which is a sad testament of the poor quality of public education available to them and naught more.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-07 15:31 asciilifeform: 'well ~i~! know now that i'm not an acorn. but do THE SQUIRRELS know??????'
mircea_popescu: plenty of rank imbeciles died with the firm conviction that they exist ; and all the better.
mircea_popescu: it exists strictly in the way "the heavenly legions" existed, to keep suleyman from constantinople.
asciilifeform: it exists in the same way that the weight of mt.everest exists, even if there is no scale to weight it on.
asciilifeform: turns out there are worse things than impotently verbose brezhnev, whod'vethunkit
mircea_popescu: also, "american mainstream" is a fake news construction. it exists in no place, certainly not the us.
mircea_popescu: and thoroughly reviled for their verbose impotence.
asciilifeform: '...by the time that the communist states actually fell, they weren’t to the left of the American mainstream: they were to the right.'
asciilifeform: in other lelz, http://www.socialmatter.net/2017/02/13/communism-fondly-remembered-longing-tradition
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: to entertain your scenario, i go elsewhere because i'd rather watch the big hydraulics.
mircea_popescu: wherever politicians get things. the labels vat.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you rather go watch pipes be dug out of the ground than whatever it is you went elsewhere to do?
ben_vulpes: escape is a rather mean characterization, asciilifeform
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/02/28/the-contemporary-classic-car-phenomenon-explained/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The Contemporary Classic Car Phenomenon, explained.
ben_vulpes is weak, especially to joys of flesh and fatherhood
mircea_popescu: is dopamine the good one ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aaah so the usual wife-escape lol
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: metaphor is rather thick, i cannot see through it
BingoBoingo: Well, imagine you are the tender root of a delicious vegetable plant. Would you rather cuddle up to soft peatmoss extracted from fridgid canada or rough coir that feels like sack cloth from tropics
ben_vulpes: talking about driving to get the compost.
ben_vulpes: move, drive further, waste more time in cars, depreciate ice assets faster, depreciate spinal column faster
ben_vulpes: digging peat out of the ground kills me; i grew up running around on 100yr old moss blankets
BingoBoingo: The leftover potting soil includes all sorts of misc that is cheapest to get year after tested on market and then clearanced out because who wants to pay $maxint for fucking potting soil
ben_vulpes: getting right with the dirt spirits, though
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: coir is fail hippy dippy shit that they only push because "renewable"
ben_vulpes: if i have time and energy, i'll be experimenting with the pickled food waste compost + charcoal in a different corner of the yard, in planters to mitigate externalities
BingoBoingo: After some weather will likely add more vermiculite and peat
asciilifeform: iirc they were a bush-ii-era headline
asciilifeform: in other lelz, 'PARIS - A sniper mistakenly fired his weapon during a Thursday speech by President François Hollande in southwestern France, slightly injuring two people, according to a regional official.'
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: i heard parts of the bezosnet went out
mircea_popescu: they're without exception barely literate.
mircea_popescu: holy shit, the imbecile lists FUCKING NAPOLEON among "truth, beauty and seriousness" ? the dude with the white dickpants ? THE CAMPIEST CHARACTER OF ALL HISTORY ?!
mircea_popescu: and in other alt-successful-living, http://68.media.tumblr.com/3152999915e71b0f02ef9d312937441e/tumblr_nkmhpd11pm1tstx4jo6_400.gif
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I though the appeal of programming work was a porsche in the driveway for one's blue haired silicon valley transpig
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'ideal' objects are at least in principle ~possible~ in programming, it is sorta the ~only appeal of the work at all .
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: keep in mind, it's ~a possible~ trb-i, not ~the~... thing's quite certainly still in 'matrix mechanics' stage of life, and who knows, for how long.
BingoBoingo: Oh the Trump flensing knife lulz come out tonight, while still digesting trb-i theory. What a time to be live!
mircea_popescu: there's no ambiguity.
asciilifeform: hm, now that i think about it, when using mircea_popescu's algo, you take your current chain to be the linearization. and if your chain gets orphaned, you consequently get a new linearization.
mircea_popescu: if at position n-1 two possible candidate blocks could be n, then in order to extend n1 you will have to consider the blockchain as consistying of n1, and in order to extend n2 you will have to consider the blockchain as consisting of n2.
mircea_popescu: ie, this is an entirely mental problem, manufactured out of thin air. dun exist in the actual thing.
mircea_popescu: whether your opinion changes as to which exact blocks is not germane. to mine on chain a you use n and to mine on chain a' you use n'.
mircea_popescu: at all points the blockchain is a linear string of blocks though.
asciilifeform: or you're whipping the sea.
asciilifeform: you can't simply 'administratively' declare a tree to be a chain. gotta specify a linearization that works on ~all~ possible states of the tree.
mircea_popescu: i'm not in the business of telling clerks how to run their office. it is clear what the blockchain is, no further explanation is needed.
asciilifeform: take the example of a fresh forked-end . which prong is 'outside' ?
asciilifeform: they aren't marked as 'outside' tho
mircea_popescu: kinda the whole point of having a chain.
mircea_popescu: whatever it retains outside the blockchain aren't blocks.
asciilifeform: iirc there were at least 3.
mircea_popescu: there is one single #411110 block.
asciilifeform: there's stubble.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a single block for each height, what are you talking about.
ben_vulpes: i attended one sometime in the last five years, and it'd been sadly neutered and taken over by the mayos
ben_vulpes: trinque: in portland, when i was a wee one, they were a deliberately not-as-raunchy-as-they-could-be bdsm-lite-junior-queers-and-thespians social club
asciilifeform: ^ if anyone recalls the 'eatblock' thread -- i found that my blkxxxx.dat differed, in a handful of places, from mircea_popescu's, and yet again from every other trb node's.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu didja ever explain how your algo from http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol deals with the nonlinearity of the chain ? (the orphan stublets - discarded ? and if so, when exactly. because there are points in time where two traditional-bitcoin nodes disagree on what 'all blocks to date, linearly ordered' were. )
trinque cannot find the log line from mircea_popescu re: developing economy and deficit spending, but mr bannon apparently heard him
trinque: nothing particularly mind-blowing about bannon's apparrent strategy either. "we can never pay back the imaginary fiat-denominated debt" so we'd better juice the fuck out of what military we have while there's time.
trinque: I watched a talk he gave in 2016 sometime, subtext sounded like "real change comes on the other side of a currency crisis"
mircea_popescu: whatever, dude's going to go right back to a "losing streak" which is seeing cuts to libertard state ~= to the entire education budget.
asciilifeform: on one hand, yes pigs squealing. on other - they aren't actually in a meat yard, nobody's rendering'em
mircea_popescu: really, they went straight back to the october pipe, that's all they got ? i thought it was going to be protests and revolutions and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: trinque i don't think i ever went to a cinema with a girl that wouldn't take stuff off. not past the age of 13 in any case, or as an independent agent, or however you put it.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 11:30 mircea_popescu: wtf "nothing sexual happens". in a fucking theatre ? that's insanity.
asciilifeform: well yes. and they're still there, and will be there next year, because mr.t doesn't, evidently, own a magical Wand of 1937
a111: Logged on 2017-02-20 00:22 danielpbarron: https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber >> they said that I didn't show any signs of an upward career trajectory. I pointed out that I was publishing a book with O'Reilly, speaking at major tech conferences, and doing all of the things that you're supposed to do to have an "upward career trajectory", but they said it didn't matter and I needed to prove myself as an engineer.
mircea_popescu: she's the fucking http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-20#1615848 of 1960, pretending not to be an "engineer" but an "essay writer" on the exact fucking basis : "oh someone hit on me"
mircea_popescu: and before anyone attempots the historical gambit, "but mp, that's not what it is, but it's what they thought in 1960", gimme a break. that's what INEPT AND LAZY BUT AMBITIOUS GIRLIES thought. much like poor people think "rich people can;'t be happy", as a cheap and useless psychological defense.
mircea_popescu: in fact the entire substance, such as it is, of "i fucking love science" contemporary idiocy is exactly that, "omaigerd nature is stylish!"
mircea_popescu: anyway, the notion that nature isn't stylish can only come out of somebody who has put absolutely no work whatsoever into studying nature. half an hour in the microbiology lab should permanently disabuse one of the notion.
shinohai: I got a day of ISS because I said she was in the wrong camp.
mircea_popescu: "bitch, essay does not mean making baseless enunciations in the thick hand of a fucking peasant."
mircea_popescu: "11. Camp is the triumph of the epicene style. (The convertibility of "man" and "woman," "person" and "thing.") But all style, that is, artifice, is, ultimately, epicene. Life is not stylish. Neither is nature."
mircea_popescu: i dunno, one of the supposedly intellectual libertard dorks.
mircea_popescu: and in other news susan sontag is fucking retarded.
asciilifeform: it is in the same sense that 2016 trilema is about clitler.
mircea_popescu: honestly i kinda lost interest once it was about shithead news.
asciilifeform: al intelligence will kill us all, or whether everything will turn out fine just as long as we continue to monitor the living shit out of every single human being alive, in order to feed the machines. A Hackernews suspects Obama quoted Mao, and everyone reassures each other it's probably fine.' ( http://n-gate.com/hackernews/2016/10/14/0 )
asciilifeform: 'Someone considers Barack Obama, a politician whose largest undertaking involved a failed healthcare IT deployment, and member of a political party known for hemorrhaging private data, eminently qualified to discuss safe policies for artificial intelligence practice. Hackernews divides into two groups. The first group performs the traditional election-cycle political shit opera for six hours. The second group debates whether artifici
asciilifeform: 'A Hackernews begs for advice on getting anyone at all to pay attention to his shit. The answer is unanimous: spam. Not even considered: making attention-worthy shit.'
asciilifeform: 'Some foreigners do forex. Hackernews is not impressed with this ancient idea. They could have done it better, but they're not going to bother trying.'
asciilifeform: 'Some moron "optimizes" a feature of a text editor that is written in javascript and requires hundreds of megabytes of memory to open an empty file. Hackernews recommends you switch to this editor, or away from this editor, or anything, just switch. Whatever you're doing isn't what they're doing: fix it. In accordance with Federal law, one Hackernews implemented the feature in question in Rust.'
asciilifeform: note that it does not cancel the heat death of the universe -- you still have the infinite pile of blox
mircea_popescu: not the worst of situations, though it does fuck over a lot of typically cryptocoin usecases.
asciilifeform: ( for utter pedantic completeness, i will also link back to one other solution to fragging: 'gravitation' : thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-28#1609013 )
asciilifeform: ( the most obvious down-side is : that now you can end up in a situation of asking someone ~for change~ -- as if you were in a shop, in meatspace ... )
asciilifeform: so you thereby solve fragging.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 13:10 mircea_popescu: the (false!) theory that the bitcoin unit of account is the 0.00000001 btc or satoshi is based on the batshit insane theory that a system could ever be devised that would track 21 million hundred million individual 512byte outputs.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619935 << incidentally it now occurs to me that danielpbarron's vectorized-coin solves this problem. (picture the quantized an-addr-is-born-when-a-block-is-mined-and-changes-hands-via-sigs scheme, from old thread; but with the twist that you can mine a variety of different sizes of coin. which remain fixed at selfsame size for all of eternity; they merely change owners.)
asciilifeform: variable-width tx, the 'gift' that 'keeps on giving' !
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 14:52 asciilifeform: in other noose, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/with_cache.txt << the cache thing, to current time
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://archive.is/Rw5QK << 'The "Beat the Boss phone" is an £27 micro-telephone built into a Bluetooth headset with only trace amounts of metal in its construction; it is lozenge-shaped and is designed to be rectally smuggled into prisons, jails and courtrooms.'
asciilifeform: ~now~ the cask-chain is a proper, nonpromisetronic chain, cemented in the end by the leaf's seal.
asciilifeform: because otherwise! any upstream node (incl. miner) could rob any downstream node.
asciilifeform: in the original text, a leaf signs ticket that was made from H(T(H(T(....))) . this is disastrously wrong, because it does not cement the relays' payment addrs into the final signed tx
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu to revisit upstack : there is a serious mistake in my casks.txt , that i did not spot until now:
mircea_popescu: in random lulz : tje original "gone wild" reference comes from dorky ny judge who condemned deep throat. "a sodom gone wild before the fire".
mircea_popescu: bout the same thing, occupy wallstreet, black lives matter, student choice in education, i will fix bitcoin,
mircea_popescu: which is why the example given was "bigger tits" not "niunamenos"
mircea_popescu: rather the correct cut is that they get to define it physically, rather than consciously.
asciilifeform: to revisit upstack : it is entirely healthy for kidz to 'redefine what means washing' ~when they grow up~. but not while they are nonwashing 5yo.
mircea_popescu: for instance : the younger sluts grow bigger tits than used to be the norm. they redefine it alright.
mircea_popescu: they can't mature on their own ; nor can they construct a working society on their own. this is neither shocking nor worth the mention.
mircea_popescu: this is not a fair statement. modern "western world" / "our democracy" is what you get when girls are ineptly forced to shoulder the WHOLE task.
mircea_popescu: how could the kids not redefine what fucking means ?
asciilifeform: i for one do not much care whether they 'take remedial class remedial in washing' in a specially-designated leprosorium , or in mircea_popescu's cellar; just for so long as the non-washers do not get to redefine what washing means.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-13 15:53 mircea_popescu: "to advance it is at serious odds with the massive glorification of youth. As marketing found itself unable to expand without encroaching upon our childhood, the intense drive to capture the minds of the youngest among us has tended to make people believe that 30 years of experience can be replaced by the young looks of rank novices. This is made worse by the management schools that make it possible for people who have yet
asciilifeform: sorta was the original point of a school, neh. a reasonably safe reservation where 'chix who have not yet learned to wash' can lean to wash, without creating dangers to self and others.
mircea_popescu: (for the innocent - deepthroat, a movie of dubious pornographic merits, was produced by the mob and released through the mob's own wot. that you saw it in the 70s meant you were cool, period and full stop. even if you saw it in between gangbangs as an american version of carol.)
mircea_popescu: ceteris paribus i'd rather take a clueless teen than the confused twentysomething she naturally produces.
mircea_popescu: there's a dubious romanian film, "the death of mr lazarescu", in which a very professional doctor sends the orderlies to take the man out for a half hour spin until his subdural hematoma has progressed to a state where it's worth his scalpel.
mircea_popescu: the girlies that didn't get to see deepthroat but worshipped "stars".
mircea_popescu: to make the story round, alf : there is ample record, not just re antinisca nemour's stinky feet, but in general regarding the women of the 70s and before. they didn't wash. what i have to deal with today in say http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537246 is the tail end of a half century process that BEGAN with exactly this, "sharing the fruits of industry", in this case hollywood, with people unfit to make the wot lists. all
mircea_popescu: (it is also in the end the mother-father distinction ; mother permits at least some interaction on the infant's own terms.)
mircea_popescu: it is one thing to not permit the infantile to interact with you ~on their own terms~. this, i wholeheartedly support. it is quite another thing however to not permit the ifnantile to interact with you at all. this is insupportable.
mircea_popescu: for the other side of the matter, if you never take dumb 15 yos out for a night on the town, whence the crop of 19yo accomplished cocksuckers is to come ?
mircea_popescu: this for one side of the matter.
asciilifeform: if it i buy a new, more efficient cpu, that heats the room less with each cycle, but the gained cycles are used to maintain the self-delusion of redditors -- this is a loss, not a gain !
asciilifeform: i for one would actually rather that my cpu heat the room , than handle redditor's pissdusttx.
asciilifeform: this was the mega-lesson of industrial era, neh.
asciilifeform: thing is, there is no good reason to assign the cake that a tech improvement yields, to the stinking poor.
mircea_popescu: the limit on "smallest bitcoin payment" is very emphatically NOT in the user's hands.
mircea_popescu: the solution is either an improvement in the technology (such as, going from bdb to bfs as discussed here etc), which will lower it somewhat, or otherwise the indicated : stop being poor.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: practically speaking on current tech the bitcoin unit of account is probably something like 0.25
mircea_popescu: to briefly revisit http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619936 : idiotcy like spending a fraction of this "technological unit of account" is currently punished by high relative fees like the case of the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619097 "oh noes i tried to pay 25 bux, ended up charged 6%".
asciilifeform: i proposed a mechanism with minimal somethingtoallcomers, and correctly-balanced, imho, incentives. it remains to other folx, to ~dispose~, neh.
asciilifeform: perhaps not the best analogy. i make rifle, and monkey uses it for hammer, he has nfi where is the trigger or which end is the business end -- monkey's problem , not mine.
asciilifeform: granted, the stupidity of users knows no limit. at least i for one do not know its limit. but if i make mircoscope, and monkeys - use it for a hammer - what's to do.
asciilifeform: and his place will be taken by a miner who knows that a miner's place is on his knees, in the kitchen.
mircea_popescu: from the fixed txn ?
mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear to me how such a thing is an improvement over "just run your current trb through the future gossipd"
asciilifeform: to wind it up, the casks algo is asciilifeform's attempt at the 'high vacuum pump' from earlier -- to get the max possible removal of something-to-allcomers element , to the extent possible without running an entirely closed wotronic system (and consequently turning into visa or swift)
mircea_popescu: incredibly, mindblowingly, the dog's expression was EXACTLY that of a very bored girlfriend/wife. how the fuck is this even possbile is beyond me.
mircea_popescu: i used to think this is principally a figure of speech, then i saw a dude fucking a misfortunate husky.
asciilifeform: the very ideal, in fact, of fucking.
mircea_popescu: yeah, i suppose that's why you never went to any wash dc orgies. but lots of people find the promise sufficient.
asciilifeform: and the existence of some public pissoire that will necessarily accept a given piss of mine, is promisetronic
asciilifeform: i have 0 fondness for the mempool, it is 99% rubbish, and uniquely retarded means of accomplishing what it was meant to accomplish
asciilifeform: an item i forgot entirely to mention in the original piece.
mircea_popescu: "marriage gives real bang for the buck, like the complete abolition of foam parties and blindfold orgies"
asciilifeform: recall, this is not a decorative item, it gives very real bang-for-the-buck -- for instance, the complete abolition of the idiocy known as mempool
mircea_popescu: (pro tip : 90% of design work must be spent in the above loop.)
asciilifeform: the savings in mass may justify this.
asciilifeform: all of the various types of broken promises, would still be detectable, but 1) strictly to those whom they immediately affected and 2) unopposably.
mircea_popescu: they would.
asciilifeform: those who were issued H(H(....)) of the outputs of Q, will see whether what they got rolled corresponded to one of these, or was a sham; or that they were rolled a particular ticket, but it ended up carrying ~someone else's~ tx as cask fill.
asciilifeform: it is not strictly necessary to transmit rsa-signed tickets (and then store the bulky stuff in casks for all time.) if you are content to have promise-keeping be ~measurable~ at each particular level of the pyramid, and to the children and parents of that level strictly, and that it not be opposable -- then you do not in fact need these signatures
asciilifeform: here we have another piece where i used a nail instead of a hinge.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 12:31 mircea_popescu: a seventh and final problem : you now constructed a chain of casks, on top of the blockchain. consider what happens if node fails to keep his ENTIRE history of casks EVER issued : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-14#1613884
mircea_popescu: but bitcoin is a lot more promiscuous about it. you want marriage, bitcoin does the "handjob in theatre / quick fuck alley behind bar" thing
asciilifeform: the only solution is 'know some nodes', srsly
asciilifeform: 'what if i know no nodes' was a problem there as well.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 12:24 mircea_popescu: a sixth, also major problem is that the system offers no serious guarantees to the user. think of some situations : a) i mined some bitcoin back in 2011, today i clean out the closed and boot up old laptop, to check out the tits and bits of ex gf who was back then hot and heavy into me. i jack off, and then snoop around and find a bitcoin wallet with ~500 btc in it. i go to spend it... and discover... that i know no nodes...
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619766 << classical bitcoin likewise makes 0 guarantees to the user.
mircea_popescu: i think the notion is generallyt accepted, under the broad heading "bitcoin is a prototype"
mircea_popescu: showing woman another light in which her current husband appears a shitbag does not give her a new husband.
asciilifeform: can show that it is simply part of the existing unsolvable heat death problem.
asciilifeform: so it is not clear to me that 'dust' would become a problem at any rate separate from the rate of heat death.
mircea_popescu: you can add any decimals you want -- you can not make them work.
asciilifeform: aaah yes. wasn't this the earlier thread, where we determined that we already have a 'proton decay' going, and that the usable lifespan of a blockchain is -- likely -- finite ?
mircea_popescu: practically speaking on current tech the bitcoin unit of account is probably something like 0.25
mircea_popescu: the (false!) theory that the bitcoin unit of account is the 0.00000001 btc or satoshi is based on the batshit insane theory that a system could ever be devised that would track 21 million hundred million individual 512byte outputs.
asciilifeform: this'd be the 'deflation' thread again, neh. if it ever turns into a palpable problem -- add moar decimal places.
mircea_popescu: but the fixation on collecting the dust is quite akin to the fixation on "collecting the water" in a spaceship, or for that matter with the fixation on "retaining the atmosphere" on planet earth. venus, see, didn't so much care about its dust.
asciilifeform: now you ~could~ boil the thing in nitric acid, try to recover it. but most folx don't -- and sleep well at night
asciilifeform: btw i'd argue that the fixation on 'collecting the dust' is peculiar. everyone who has ever thrown away, e.g., old mobo, or whichever electronic rubbish, has discarded many milligram of Au and more or less whole mendeleev table of rarities.
asciilifeform: because you then need db, which will ~necessarily~ grow slower-to-lookup in geometric progression as tx table grows.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose i have a wallet full of dust. how do i resolve the problem ? count dust / 2 txn in sqrt(count dust) tranches ?
asciilifeform: the fixed-width-tx is a provable component of any long-term-sane trb-i. regardless of what other parts are included or excluded. without it, you get rapid rot.
asciilifeform: there is no such thing, and i suspect that it can be proven that there can be no such thing
mircea_popescu: which was the topic of yesterday's comments or w/e we talked about that.
mircea_popescu: but it would ~seem~ that if you do this, then you should put in the work and make a ~proper~ ring signature scheme.
asciilifeform: (rather than db idiocy)
mircea_popescu: 2 in 2 out is the correct primitive, even if oyu want to move 11.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason i said 2 in 2 out. anything else is either nonmoving (1-2) or else tree pruning (2:1 ends up with a single coinbase ; 1:2 ends up with an infinity of satoshi sized coinbases you might as well stop lying about and issue outright)
asciilifeform: at the cost of multiply txing.
asciilifeform: you can replicate the effects of multi-in-multi-out using multiple single-in-single-out.
mircea_popescu: for the fact that reality.
mircea_popescu: but you need it for the whole thing to signify.
mircea_popescu: all the rest, that he used boost, or bdb or qt, or that he doesn't know how to design or that he scratched his name in the lens can be fixed
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 12:08 mircea_popescu: a third, and rather major, problem is that you will have serious trouble creating fixed width transactions in general. the reason is that the amount of information itself varies ; you can pretend to push this inconvenience all the way to the user ("hey, always use two inputs and two outputs and fu!") but it's somewhat unlikely to ever stick.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619760 << this is the biggie. you ~gotta~ have fixed-width TX, ruat caelum, because it is the only way to not have the system grind to an exponential halt over ~decade. because it makes O(1) input verification ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618145 thread ) possible -- and - provably - no other geometry does.
mircea_popescu: yes, which is at least to my eyes the major objective source of satoshi bitcoin braindamage.
asciilifeform: *fixed-width tx, rather from 2 lines up
asciilifeform: *fixed-width tx, rather
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 12:08 mircea_popescu: a third, and rather major, problem is that you will have serious trouble creating fixed width transactions in general. the reason is that the amount of information itself varies ; you can pretend to push this inconvenience all the way to the user ("hey, always use two inputs and two outputs and fu!") but it's somewhat unlikely to ever stick.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619760 << this is the biggie. you ~gotta~ have fixed-width blocks, ruat caelum, because it is the only way to not have the system grind to an exponential halt over ~decade. because it makes O(1) input verification ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618145 thread ) possible -- and - provably - no other geometry does.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 12:14 mircea_popescu: a fourth, minor point, is that you have your market primitives ass-backwards. no price formation is ever envisaged to have "asks may depend on bids" as an edulcoration of "asks are fixed ; bids are fixed" because it is always possible to produce a pricing function for the product (based on cost) whereas it's never possible to produce a pricing function for the demand (demand is a psychological, not a physical phenomenon). the
mircea_popescu: EVEN THEN.
mircea_popescu: well yes. cask comes with "and this much in fee", write your tx for it or return the cask.
mircea_popescu: so then why even have it. have fixed fee throughout.
asciilifeform: just like he knows if the sig is invalid.
asciilifeform: a tx, recall, is finalized (from egg to larva) ~upon receipt of rolled cask~, which means that the immediate parent immediately knows if the fee suffices.
mircea_popescu: the rot where i shit in the soup and the rot where the soup is "too expensive" iyo are not the same rot.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 11:59 mircea_popescu: there's a different, much less notable problem wrt to what constitutes "a rotten fill". if i go to the stock market (i mean the old, gentlemany, pit of hand gestures thing) and bid "sentiments" for a certain share, i am in fact engaging in retarded behaviour, on the level of sjwing, and will, and should be kicked out.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619756 << the 'rotten fill' thing was simply a restatement of 'a tx is not a tx unless it is valid, and a block is not a valid block unless it consists wholly of valid tx.' cribbed straight from classical bitcoin. phrasing was, evidently, confusing.
asciilifeform: it is an inevitable occurrence at all levels of the pyramid, and is not fraudulent per se.
mircea_popescu: you can't go around picking some random parts of your spec to disavow. you put it in there.
mircea_popescu: understand, the principle is naturalia non sunt turpia. what this means is, that if the girl MUST go on her knees and cover her own face in semen while looking up at you, then THEREFORE it CAN NOT be "a shameful act" for a woman on her knees to cover her own face in semen while looking up.
asciilifeform: the design specifies that the rate of promise-breaking is measurable. which is a prerequisite to any wotronic approach to incentivizing promise-keeping.
asciilifeform: the inevitable other side of the promise-making medal, is that the maker can break the promise.
mircea_popescu: well, i read your attitude as rather negative to it. but okay.
mircea_popescu: this is not a merit but a dismerit of the design, as such.
asciilifeform: there is a reason why i specified 'fib' as a fact of life.