a111: Logged on 2017-03-03 13:20 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621436 << the chickens ain't txing. no moar so today than in '11.
phf: catching up with rss and some of the log linked articles is literally like taking a bath of shit.
phf: well, it's been the case for about two years now, but that's the first time i put it in logs :>
asciilifeform: i thought the plague came in '09 and never left.
asciilifeform: 'why do you dumb orcs not simply speak the king's english'
asciilifeform: phf: subvariant of the 'why does emacs not use ibm's standard keystrokes!!' people.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-03 16:27 phf: ihttp://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620670 << i've had similar experience before. girl does that "can i be an extra person in your tribe" thing, hovering, circling, eyeing. so me and my girl will approach, just for the girl to run away in panic. we call it gazel hunting. i've noticed the more "selling it" girl looks, the more likely she's to panic when approached by guy AND girl. incidently i don't know any strippers who look like strippers off work. but i've m
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621464 << lel, this happens to asciilifeform/pet regularly. i think of it as 'yes there are fast neutrons wherever you are, but go and extract useful energy from'em'
phf: and host listed just a handful of dollars below budget hotel option for the area, so clearly knew what she was doing
asciilifeform: the classical 'kickstarter' business model -- 'hey, it ain't ~us~ defrauding you, it's this stable of monkeys over there, you agreed to trust them'
phf: so i canceled, but of course airbnb eats the "service fees". getting them to refund service fees is impossible. ticket stuck in support limbo for past 5 days.
phf: host listed a price, and after confirmation informed that i'm only getting half of what i asked for ("oh it's one bed per one room, you need to purchase another room to get second bed")
phf: in unrelated lulz, i decided to use airbnb, and got fucked on the first transaction
phf: ..but i've met plenty of dumb girls who dress like one, because i suppose that's how they attract dat dream guy from a porn video. the miami bouncer dude.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-01 19:41 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-the-scared-slut/ << Trilema - The Story of the scared slut.
phf: ihttp://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620670 << i've had similar experience before. girl does that "can i be an extra person in your tribe" thing, hovering, circling, eyeing. so me and my girl will approach, just for the girl to run away in panic. we call it gazel hunting. i've noticed the more "selling it" girl looks, the more likely she's to panic when approached by guy AND girl. incidently i don't know any strippers who look like strippers off work. but i've m
phf: outputs 14. ahokthen
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 23:02 asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://kukuruku.co/post/the-collapse-of-the-unix-philosophy
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621348 << curl https://kukuruku.co/post/the-collapse-of-the-unix-philosophy/|tr 'A-Z' 'a-z'|awk 'BEGIN{RS=" "} /json/{print $0}'|wc -l
asciilifeform: so now they're flynning him also.
asciilifeform: 'Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) spoke twice last year with Russia’s ambassador to the United States, Justice Department officials said, encounters he did not disclose when asked about possible contacts between members of President Trump’s campaign and representatives of Moscow during Sessions’s confirmation hearing to become attorney general.'
asciilifeform: was promised to be an independent investigation. How an Obama donor could be trusted to investigate Obama’s heir apparent was never explored by the fake news media. Even worse is that as Chief of Counterintelligence, Laufman has the power to kill any investigations into leaks, a power he has been exercising.'
asciilifeform: in very other lulzies, https://archive.is/on8dl >> 'Obama holdover David Laufman is the source of the national security leaks, Cernovich Media can exclusively report. David Laufman, Chief of Counterintelligence, has all classified information regarding espionage pass by his desk. ... Laufman, who had donated to Obama’s presidential campaign fund in past election cycles, was the DOJ official who investigated Hillary Clinton in what
a111: Logged on 2017-03-03 11:41 mircea_popescu: because for as long as the chicken brained have a dollar, they will pool that dollar to get shit like britney spears on the air.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621436 << the chickens ain't txing. no moar so today than in '11.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but we're expected to believe that it was simply martians taking a sudden liking to bitcoin that one day, aha. << this is not at all incredible. on the contrary. most people who liked a cult hit band "can still remember the day last week when it was just me and that guy with the weird nose at the concerts, now look around".
mircea_popescu: for very strictly the reason that "patriotism", ie http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#selection-189.0-189.233
mircea_popescu: because for as long as the chicken brained have a dollar, they will pool that dollar to get shit like britney spears on the air.
mircea_popescu: trinque> hm. no, I see your point. the "market" being mostly determined by malefactors burning govt funding. << sadly the ONLY pill to this is an end to "humanism" and thereby "our democracy" resulting in mass poverty, not mass consumerism.
thestringpuller: snapchat surges 44% and they call facebook a bubble. for anyone calling for baby boomers to be sent to gitmo, I'd rather send the millennials first.
asciilifeform: i still remember when blox moved from ~200kB to ~full-but-often-null in ~day. and stayed there.
asciilifeform: the conclusion asciilifeform draws from the continued existence of emptyblox and oldcoinfreetxen is 'most tx are usg-authored spamola'. other folx - can draw other conclusions, if they want.
asciilifeform: ( the cost, to the attacker pools, of tape-painting tx, is supposed to be 'they forgo fees from actual people', but there is very little pressure from actual-people. ergo this 'cost' is ~0, i suspect. )
asciilifeform: trinque: they are paying, mainly, into own pockets
trinque: I can beg my way into one of their "unlimited" blocks?
trinque: though while difficulty increases (and block size stays the same) I don't see how even these will not be forced into paying higher fees.
trinque: hm. no, I see your point. the "market" being mostly determined by malefactors burning govt funding.
asciilifeform: as would the empties.
asciilifeform: trinque: if blocks were crowded on account of actual people, the free tx thing would be a distant memory
asciilifeform: quite likely why the old-coins-move-for-free thing still exists.
asciilifeform: trinque: the full blox are also full 'for political reasons' ( usg spamolade )
asciilifeform: what i'd like to learn is, whether fee-per-ullage-byte has moved. and in what direction.
trinque: dunno that it's the same "they". folks gunning for idiocies like "unlimited" might be mining empty blocks for political reasons
asciilifeform: trinque: it is true! but at the same time they mine empty blocks, and blocks full of free-tx..
trinque: asciilifeform: so you disagree with the diminishing block reward, or what?
asciilifeform: betcha mircea_popescu had nfi that there could be such a thing as 'sibling blocks' !111
asciilifeform: and, mega-unsurprise, 0 mention of the actual bottleneck (db)
asciilifeform: linked mainly for the 'bitlove' approach
mircea_popescu: where "too pro russian" means about the same as "too pornographic" : there's ANY item where the eternally losing side irl fails to win in fantasy.
ben_vulpes: > TR 30 uses the familiar Windows 2000 operating system with graphical representations of the entire radiochemical process
mircea_popescu: http://www.qsl.net/k/k0ff//old%20files/1C%20Working%20Copy/yyy/Cyclotron/TR%2030%20Cyclotron.htm << therer's something for alf
ben_vulpes: > I guess and I don't bother to check, so check it yourself
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
asciilifeform: 'We need LC_ALL here to be sure that the date will take exactly three words in the output of ls.' << this is exactly the plasma tv raft from mircea_popescu's article with the crazy woman
asciilifeform: ' It would be much easier if we used JSON or XML for system configs. Or maybe some binary format. Especially for those configs that are constantly read by different programs. As a result, they need a good read rate (it’s higher in binary formats).' << gold.
asciilifeform barfs the thing back out
asciilifeform: 'As we’ve already seen in the example with /etc/passwd, the widespread use of plain text can lead to performance problems. ' << and dynamically loaded crapolade, orc-glyphs-in-everything, dbus, et al -- don't, apparently ?!
mircea_popescu: kinda the point.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's about a girl who can't take seriously any online dweebs who attempt to immitate her style without comprehending the substance and under the guise of a very thin excuse omit to address their thanks plainly. or something like that.
mircea_popescu: anyone familiar with the story of zuleika dobson ?
mircea_popescu: "This article was written hastily, and I dont want to further improve it. Youre lucky I wrote it. Therefore, I may provide some facts without source links." << i lolled. and also lost interest.
asciilifeform: the dung beetles, gotta roll dung
mircea_popescu: o look, i can read the stuff from the chan on websites a few months later now! well done team andreesseen! totally made a difference!
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i am but a lol-sniffing pig of the web
mircea_popescu: their mommy gave them that bush and by god they'll take it to paradise via the retirement home!
mircea_popescu: veen you'd think the god damned bears of yesteryear would fucking shave before going within inches of a glorified lawnmower
mircea_popescu: trinque> this is shocking because I hear there's no fee market!11!1 << zing
mircea_popescu: they're on the map in new york as "those dumb broads from almost west coast". at some point people were writing fanfic they're so ridoinculous.
mircea_popescu: been in business for what, 50 years, NEVER did anything above "the Random Q Nobody Highschool 10 Year Reunion" complete set of flyers + leaflets PLUS those napkin paper rings!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the stuff you read
veen: in other outdoor recreation of yesteryear, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdycwgRQ1N1rlsqyto1_1280.jpg
trinque: this is shocking because I hear there's no fee market!11!1
trinque: in other news, BingoBoingo's deed txn 771d53910d31b6cc038d457f57579ef60da9b29271a6e5f82df0ec8e9e32c50b has yet to confirm. I might have to increase deed fee a tad.
ben_vulpes: it's how i differentiate myself from the basket of undesirables; their hrcb comes with penises which is just i can't even
trinque: neither do I.
trinque: remember that country that cared whether a breakfast cereal company had a political opinion?
ben_vulpes: "tearing libtards arms off and beating them to death with them since before you quit facebook"
ben_vulpes: cracks in the edifice of ideological hegemony are starting to show, though: "You have the choice between standing for a cause or standing against whoever disagrees with you. One choice may result in a boycott. The other can build a bridge."
ben_vulpes: the other day, one of these wha ads streaked across my vision and i was amused at how /female/ the campaign is
asciilifeform: ( who can then spend . )
asciilifeform: classic prbism -- where is the proof that this does not create a phantom n+1st 'signer' ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what means "giving back the yet-unfucked-once ping back to the late von neumann"?
asciilifeform: aaaaaanything, anything to avoid handing giving back the yet-unfucked-once pig back to the late von neumann, and going back to sweeping airport floor.
asciilifeform: 'based on these unproven conjectures, and one or more unproven conjectures on which our logic relies, and one or more circularly-defined conditions, this scheme is secure, for our toy definition of secure that we will not share'
asciilifeform: but the result of reading this (spoiler!) for asciilifeform is usually mega-disappointment
asciilifeform: i'ma put this on the conveyor
mircea_popescu: it's inexcusable, but either a or b may explain.
mircea_popescu: on the face. there may be some merit to it in that : a) the chinese are mentally dull. i mean this specifically in the sense of chinese born baby ~= piece of furniture, funcially incapable of either finding a novel idea, evaluating it, or figuring out off own steam that should do this ; b) the euros are cuckolds. this means they're less likely to consider idea if the womenz boo hoo than if the womenz don't boo hoo ; c) the wo
asciilifeform: the 'let's use anything, ANYTHING but rsa' thing really grates on me.
asciilifeform: what is this, the gif wars ?
mircea_popescu: there's this nonsensical view that recently-expired patents are better tech because you know, "newer" (than older expired patents, presumably, for whatever sense this makes)
mircea_popescu: expired patent just about the time iirc
asciilifeform: q for prbologists, entomologists : why is schnorr signature algo so attractive to the prb folx ?
mircea_popescu: and in other americana, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6775e30043c1371eb7e80f4eec3d372c/tumblr_mlbbe3Vl5q1rgz1hoo1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: by you know, the rich mother of the wife-slut. other kid (mary) grew up without shoes in the house of a peasant, who was paid 20 bux a month for it.
mircea_popescu: in random lulz re the luminaries of this so called english literature and their chinxcavator belles : ezra pound had some 23yo named dorothy dropped on his head by her mother ; he also was fucking olga the violinist, who some friends dropped on his head when he was complaining he's been in paris for months and doesn't even have a mistress.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would a male as much as spit for sweden
mircea_popescu: i hope they're only drafting women, yes ?
mircea_popescu: but the lazy just won't let go of the holy ring. the idle complification, towards vector spaces, latices et all is just the toil of avoiding doing any work.
mircea_popescu: it seems altogether unlikely this particular truth will come out of more futzing with algebraic strucutres
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 18:23 asciilifeform: much of academitard 'cryptography' is an elaborate dance around the fact that nobody knows, publicly, of any solid axioms that were unknown to von neumann.
mircea_popescu: incidentally re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621225 : a large part of the stagnancy in applied number theory for the past ... o hey, it's a century soon! has to do with everyone wanting to do the work without doing the work.
asciilifeform: 'toy crypto auth is slightly easier to forge than the usual five minutes', noose at eleven.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i dun even grasp how this is a vuln, it isn't as if 802.11 has rsa-authenticated endpoints to begin with
mircea_popescu: are you suggesting they're trying to capture more torque from environment ? adaptative megalochin ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> new ? hasn't he been dead for 50 years ? << Ate an abercrombie and fitch shotgun, likely movie about the guy
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in other news im reading this hemingway interview and why the fuck was this guy such a dork and why does he only go out with ugly women. << Beer goggles
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the few honest cryptographers that exist, will prove that your arse is staked on ~this here~ set of unproven conjectures, and nothing else.
shinohai: Coulda been the rum that made it palatable though.
mircea_popescu: in other news im reading this hemingway interview and why the fuck was this guy such a dork and why does he only go out with ugly women.
asciilifeform: much of academitard 'cryptography' is an elaborate dance around the fact that nobody knows, publicly, of any solid axioms that were unknown to von neumann.
mircea_popescu: the entire story of the "olympiad problems" (the fly between trains thing et al) is a fine indication of just how hard this sort of thing is, irl.
asciilifeform: upstack : ben_vulpes : the 'triangle' is aka 'trapdoor function', and it is not known whether they actually exist. ( folx go around pretending that they exist. does not make it so. )
asciilifeform: logicgate-poverty, according to him, prevented asymmetric crypto from taking off in su, and so this ^ was the obsession. for a while.
asciilifeform: ( according to maslennikov, kgb directorate of crypto struggled with the fundamental boojum and simply gave up, and turned to turd polishing )
asciilifeform: what you want to prove (and nobody has, for any system) is that the necessary work is equivalent to brute force guess.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the value of a winning lottery ticket = the value of the prize. lucky guys are worth money.
asciilifeform: however mircea_popescu , this is not quite right, the 'lower bound' is always O(1) for the d00d who knows the key !
mircea_popescu: they are discussing "how easy it is" and mislabel it as "how hard it is". but at no point is their discussion actually about how hard anything is.
mircea_popescu: hardest case upper bound is the discussion literature
mircea_popescu: easiest case lower bound is the requirement.
asciilifeform: however the triangle is imaginary, because -- as you will learn from the linked thread tree earlier (and not from any public literature ! elsewhere afaik) -- we know about complexity classes , as discovered by cook et al ; but we do NOT know of any means of generating ~instances~ of problems falling into given class with ~guaranteed~ average-case hardness.
asciilifeform: ideal hasher - into a prng (as pictured in, e.g., casks piece intro) ; an ideal cipher - into either of the two others.
asciilifeform: you can see that they are the same, because an 'ideal' prng can be trivially turned into a ciphrator; or a hasher ;
asciilifeform: in the hash's case, for anyone to go from H(S) to S ; in prng -- for anyone to go from any section of the output stream, to the seed .
asciilifeform: in both cases, you wish to prevent inversion of the function
asciilifeform: the prng has a time parameter, but it is spurious, it is really just the same as a hash, with same requirements
asciilifeform: a 'secure prng' is fundamentally THE SAME animal as the 'secure hash' and the 'secure blockcipher'.
asciilifeform: the mandatory thread is here -- http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620768 ( and linked subthreads with mircea_popescu . )
asciilifeform: aite. but i'm all outta circle-squaring methods, having listed all of the ones i presently know of.
asciilifeform: and so they don;t.
asciilifeform: the folx who could -- any day of the week -- give the order to have all 'migrants' met with flamethrowers - answer to exactly usg dos sewing circle
mircea_popescu: sounds just about inept enough to have come out of the dept of state sewing circle.
mircea_popescu: neither of these are good, and in any case the us' days in europe are numbered. trump is mostly saving face with all the rhetoric.
mircea_popescu: no. they wanted sarkozy, and figured taking him out would help. taking him out propelled a) hollande and b) le pen.
mircea_popescu: everyone's on all fours after the republican electorate, somehow. INEXPLICABLY, i guess, because trilema rather than the new york times told them to, and of course everyone listens to one of those not the other!
mircea_popescu: speaking of which last bit, you should see how vocal macri is these days! he's suddenly found himself very opinionated and shit!
mircea_popescu: they're both pissing on the french legal system, of course. obviously trump left no marks either.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : both the "conservative" and the "nazi" candidates to french elections are being prosecuted by the "state" socialism for hallucinated misdeeds (they hired family members as assistents fictitiously|!11). the influence of inept obamaism and his kidnapping of french candidate last time around clearly left no scars, hurr.
asciilifeform: 'all you need is a miniature black hole and some duct tape! otherwise, 100% solid physics!1111'
asciilifeform: it's another 'star drive'.
asciilifeform: ( other problem is that orphaning -- and, likely, of almost arbitrary length -- would be the rule, rather than the exception. )
asciilifeform: what's the incentive to relay anything ?
asciilifeform: ( if answer is 'nowhere, all coins exist at genesis' -- we're back to the rusting engineless thing )
mircea_popescu: there's no rule that this space fortress must seat > 1.
mircea_popescu: a block is like a bus - eschews the need for every child and woman to maintain an engine.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ordering.
mircea_popescu: it's not clear the notion oflbock is actually useful outside of "no hash per tx" sort of collectivism.
asciilifeform: a 'cask' system would make the queue at least thinkable. but still very painful.
asciilifeform: now iirc we touched on the crackpottery where a ~tx~ carries PoW, and tx issuers somehow have to get in a single-file queue to avoid orphaning one another, and at a certain point 'lucky winner' (in practice, folx with disproportionate - a la today's miners - hash power) crosses a threshhold PoW and gets to finalize a block.
asciilifeform: but, upstack, afaik the cold equations have no mercy, if you want miners to deal with tx, gotta pay fee, and fee has to somehow come out of txer's pocket .
asciilifeform: (though users of suitcases of benjies do. there is a certain P of losing the payload to usg en route)
asciilifeform: your 'fee' is a small positive probability of losing your entire tx to the miner.
mircea_popescu: whether stuck or not remains debatable, but what's certain is that this gal's going straight home from the battered women shelter.
asciilifeform: can only assume that if there had been some interesting find, someone here might remember it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i admit that i have not attempted to unearth and catalogue the 2011 folxs' attempts to square the circle.
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is the sum-total intellectual output of tardstalk "bitcoin theory" thinking for 2011.
mircea_popescu: the circle stayed round this time around.
asciilifeform: now this car has not only no engine, but no wheels, there is no incentive for ~anybody to even try to store a coherent history of the world.
asciilifeform: right, because the only way to demonstrate ownership is to transfer it to the party being demonstrated to.
mircea_popescu: and no, "i was the first to mash 1 into the kbd eighty-nine million times" is not it.
mircea_popescu: there is no sane way to lay claim of ownership to random strings
asciilifeform: now, this thing just sits and rusts, because it cannot move. there is no way to prevent anybody from signing multiple, conflicting transfers.
asciilifeform: then broadcasts this.
asciilifeform: to spend a coin, its owner obtains (out of band) a new lamport pubkey from the new owner, and signs it.
asciilifeform: for sake of argument, let's draw the engineless car, and then possibly one day can conceive of the engine. say all C coins exist at genesis. (how distributed to owners -- outside the scope here.) each consist of a lamport pubkey;
mircea_popescu: no enemy can measure up to the voids.
asciilifeform: esp. synchronization in the face of enemy action
mircea_popescu: which is why there's a fee.
asciilifeform: but even the finest handmade chronometer does not approach in cost, the cost of ~synchronization~
asciilifeform: as phf's b00k illustrates, the cost of the chronometers remained a serious boojum well into 1900s
mircea_popescu: not even the marine chronometer dudes aimed to make it COSTLESS
asciilifeform: but there is no martian clock.
asciilifeform: ( and a tx can be a once-per-Hinterval thing where you gotta roll in the previous interval's hash. and the day's tx form the day's H. )
asciilifeform: then you have the ordering. and 'mining' can consist of, e.g., finding twin-primes and rsa-staking the claim to them, then submitting to martiandeedbot.
asciilifeform: it is worth recalling the gedankenexperiment where it turns out that all you'd need to build 'martian bank' on earth, is if martians merely supplied an infallible 'martian clock', a service whereby they take a string S , at regular, say, daily, interval, and return its hash H
asciilifeform: without cemented ordering, the concept of 'double spend' cannot be defined
mircea_popescu: people fail to correctly comprehend the batshit insanity that is an unorderd bag because common reality graciously provides default orderings in all cases
asciilifeform: one of the problems classical mined blocks solved was - universal event ordering
asciilifeform: and it rather resembles those infamous star drive engines, e.g., alcubierre's drive
mircea_popescu: that is mathematically equivalent to "no fee".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'every user a currency issuer' is the only 'solution' i currently know to 'mining-is-a-bug'
asciilifeform does not know a working, even in principle, algo for these.
asciilifeform: so it'd have to be one of those schemes where mining isn't even a thing; or at the very least has nothing to do with cementing tx
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: 'The journal's editor, Robert Greene, wrote back to say that Storms’s stance set “a terrible precedent” because it was unfair to the author of the paper and opposed the APA’s policies and the guidelines followed by other reviewers. “Given that your policy conflicts with that of the journal, I think that it's best that you step down from the editorial board,” he wrote.'
asciilifeform: Gert Storms — who says he won’t step down — is one of a few hundred scientists who have vowed that, from the start of this year, they will begin rejecting papers if authors won’t publicly share the underlying data, or explain why they can’t.'
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://archive.is/D3jVT << 'An editor on the board of a journal published by the prestigious American Psychological Association (APA) has been asked to resign in a controversy over data sharing in peer review.
ben_vulpes: those interests are pretty much providing a home to the royal sons of whereverthefuckistan, and effete boys with which they frolic
ben_vulpes: in other truly top notch lols, "Moreover, the executive order forces Oregon to violate its own laws against discrimination, frustrating Oregon's sovereign interest in providing a welcoming home to people from all over the world"
PeterL: while we are talking about things to stick in TRB-I, how about lowering the block size by an order of magnitude or so?
mircea_popescu: all the weird, pointless random shit on trilema that has nothing to do with anything!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally i suspect that a regenesised fork would begin to gather steam long before http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621006 .
asciilifeform: ( witness the effects of the 900+kB of rubbish that usg is piping into each block today )
asciilifeform: but , upstack, when i think about trbi i go into 'bridge design' mode, where 'it gotta bear all of the tanks that could possibly physically fit, and then let's also assume that martians stack'em five layers deep '
asciilifeform: it also helps that the current crop of miners is almost clinically retarded
asciilifeform: they don't, because apparently this 'bus' is ~empty
mircea_popescu: but they apparently don't.
asciilifeform: miners could piss on coin age starting tonight, if they felt like it.
asciilifeform: well unless you also have the ring thing
mircea_popescu: there is that.
mircea_popescu: lenin, as well as everyone else, can still be admired exactly as they were
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 16:56 mircea_popescu: but the correct trb-i might just as well end up this situation where block reward is 1mn bitcoin, and it dies within 1mn blocks. so all mining does is produce ~ a lease ~ on a chunk of bitcoin. and the value of old bitcoin is monotonically decreasing over their lifetime.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform without some kind of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619177 the situation is apperoximately one where naive idiots got their wish, and no bacteria exist.
asciilifeform: 'pruning' is for the birds, folx.
asciilifeform: you replace a block you know to have been fully lubyized with a 'if you want this, go and find'. BUT what, now you have an empty string there ..
asciilifeform: if you want to competitively mine, you gotta have the blox in O(1) at your fingertip.
asciilifeform: and yes you can compute the odds of a particular block B ending up wholly lubyized by a time T. however if you rely on the luby strings for your mining, you will be fucked timewise.
asciilifeform: the snake, lost his legs, aha.
mircea_popescu: to make it perfectly clear -- the reason blockchain still exists today is not the 2015 miners.
asciilifeform: so it seems to me that what remains is to up the arity -- find such arity that any attempt at such waltzing is guaranteed to be ~useless
mircea_popescu: however forcing one to keep A PORTION of blockchain is not altogether a bad outcome ; it is better than the current "forces to keep nothing -- and they provably, as historical fact, DID NOT!" and through lubby ensures blockchain is never lost.
asciilifeform: but, upstack, conundrum is, if some of the oldtx depend on prevblock in a way that is known immediately when said block was mined -- it gives a head start to plagiarists ( per earlier observation -- folx who take a freshly-mined block and try to make ~replacement~ for it with higher PoW.) but if they are ~not~ immediately known, and depend in any way on waltzeable Z, then 'haha i'll waltz until it falls in my 10%'.
asciilifeform had a prof who permitted students to bring 'all of the crib sheets and books you can carry on your miserable back, it won't help'
asciilifeform: the one thing that definitely cannot be permitted to be manipulable by a waltzer is the arity. (there'd be overwhelming incentive to waltz for minimal arity)
mircea_popescu: anyway, the exact way to apply luby to it prolly can take more thinking. but hte idea certainly has merit.
asciilifeform: sorta how student might get to select a few exam questions from a pool, but there are others that are mandatory.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the cure, i realized, is that ~some~ of the oldtx selected by Z must depend on value of prev block, so as to prevent waltzing of Z 'until all i need is the 10% i'm fraudulently storing instead of the 100%' .
john_cocktail: intelligent conversation about crypto isn't easy to find, on the internet or anywhere else