mircea_popescu: im sure the fine went on a credit card.
trinque: in fact I saw one of these get pulled over immediately after. was pretty great
mircea_popescu: why. because the ustards can't do anything right anymore. gotta do it speshul.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cabs in usistan are peculiarly expensive, i still have nfi why. it's the thing that ultimately spawned crackpot chumpatrons ('uber', 'lyft', etc)
asciilifeform: in egregiously-infested places they actually build massive wrought iron fences to keep'em from crossing in random spots and slowing down traffic for miles
mircea_popescu: well hang those then.
asciilifeform: ( no toll booths, either, you bought a radio pass thingie )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enough, the state managed to lose money EVEN ON IT
mircea_popescu: "oh you can't afford a cab ? lol." and then don't pay the drones enough to afford a cab.
asciilifeform: trinque: the one mega-road in md/dc that never, ever jams, and is gloriously empty, you can feel like chinese emperor on his private forbidden city road -- is 200; where you gotta pay ~tenbux end to end
trinque: sanity would dictate the road belongs to someone; pay him
trinque: I wouldn't mind if the whole thing worked that way
mircea_popescu: must obtain certificate from all of them ; renew weekly.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary : car is permitted on the ground provided it gets in the way of no pedestrians.
asciilifeform: ... sorta like the mythical rear horn ?
trinque: I think they qualify if you're close enough behind
phf: i jumped a fence while drunk in georgetown once, during my college years, was invited for a glass of bourbon and a chat by the owner. "i was a rufian, like you, young boys, once"
mircea_popescu: cuz they're mentally dim.
asciilifeform: ( but oddly enough, even a very jumpable, strictly ceremonial fence -- keeps'em on the sidewalk. why -- i do not know. )
asciilifeform: there is a reason why the fence is the 'most stereotypically american' furniture of the landscape. everything, even the most worthless empty lot, ruined cement plinths overgrown with weeds, is fenced in -- and if you don't fence in even own front yard, sheeple will trample it to dirt within weeks
mircea_popescu: yes, well, it's unseemly. by now the big house is a large corral.
asciilifeform: for whatever reason (could be from plantation days? i have nfi) plebes are not managed like people in usistan, but more like livestock, they build pens, corrals, for them, this was even the subject of a mircea_popescu article ('embroiled in dealings with the stupid poor', or what was it called)
mircea_popescu: do the world and yourself a basic fucking courtesy and opress people individually, rather than trying to come up with impersonal bs.
mircea_popescu: these bs "solutions" ain't.
mircea_popescu: you over there! yes you! you're a pleb! get walking!
mircea_popescu: SAME EXACT fucking thing here. if you want your plebs to walk, FUCKING TALK TO THEM.
asciilifeform: they inherited a perverse, 'josephsmithed', fondness for trappings of 'country estate', from probably the british days
trinque: almost like leave life the fuck alone and it works fine
mircea_popescu: "no one shall make any covenant as to the use of land."
phf: dc traffic is special. ferrying the mass of aparatchiks with their high boredom tolerance through the narrow corridors between the old money property
trinque: lets cram everyone working into the smallest place possible
mircea_popescu: i mean for him to give them what for.
trinque: half the idiocy is city zoning
mircea_popescu: notrly. overall, it's like the dustbowl.
asciilifeform: even motherfucking CANALS would beat american-style jam roads.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they were thinking, "we're going to mass industrialize in 1980 AND BUILD ROADS"
asciilifeform: also suggests that the chinese fucked up their golden chance to make the auto continue to be worth something as a transport for the reasonably elite, vs 'we ate a mutual spoon of shit for free'
asciilifeform: seems almost like the very definition of not-jammed.
asciilifeform: can't say i've ever seen a jam that looks like 'long strings of cars going exactly the same speed'
mod6: once fully sync'd they both could be masters ; helping avoid star topology.
mod6: then will probably get that setup and colocate it somewhere.
mod6: and I ordered a physical box that has the same 2 procs, but has 64gb of ram as opposed to 24gb. just needs few disks.
shinohai: Speaking of battlestations, didn't you mention you have a new boxxen in the works?
mod6: I hung my new 4'x6' whiteboard next to the battlestation last night. 'tis awesome.
shinohai: I found this poor little Dell Inspiron 4150 sitting by a dumpster on my morning walk. Brought it home and the thing actually booted w/Knoppix xD
mircea_popescu: that's why it's there, to not get stuck in traffic. "oh, i got a scrape and then i put disinfectant on it which infected it".
Framedragger will fix the gap, bbl
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630068 There's two distinct very different things under the brand. American version's msot notable product is "Brute" trashcan
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform observe that at the tme phoenix could make... cpu competitor board.,
mircea_popescu: "oh, big whoop, why oppress the niggers! not like i don't have my nice suit or my sane office"
mircea_popescu: and a universal if foolish unawareness of the republic.
asciilifeform: aha, if not for... a plane crash here , an idiot there.
mircea_popescu: aha, back when the shitshow could still have been killed.
asciilifeform: p.37: 'Market competitors wasted no time in knocking Microsoft's long awaited Windows environment... ...Microsoft, however, says that the criticisms ranged from unfair to incorrect. Says company spokesperson Marty Taucher "We changed the product significantly so it would support existing applications. Allegations that it does not, as (Quarterdeck president) Therese Myers says, and that you need to 'step aside' to support other progra
mircea_popescu: the non-inclusive, non-minority friendly us. america.
asciilifeform: not only 'not black' but they are dressed like 'stereotypical capitalist devil', sharp suit, tie, sitting in respectable-looking study, or in office with obvious subordinates, etc
asciilifeform: in other types of leisure reading, 'scientific american' (i recently bought half a century's worth of'em, monster crate) also same types of people
mircea_popescu: it wasn't ok top be black, then
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is interesting, in the american 'computing' mags of the time, to see the ads, how the pictured people are dressed, even
asciilifeform: 'IBM PC Creator Dies. DALLAS--Philip D. "Don" Estridge, 47, IBM vice president of manufacturing and former head of the Entry Systems Division, which developed the IBM PC, was among the six IBM employees killed in the August 2 Delta Air Lines crash at the Dallas/Fort Worth airport...'
mircea_popescu: yeah remember when these were actually worth reading ?
asciilifeform never had the pleasure of encountering x86 with rom debugger.
mircea_popescu: but my jaw dropped when i was shown the wonder.
asciilifeform: the humble | is 99% of what unix even has going for it.
mircea_popescu: no pipe, no shell. that much. pretty sure there was an awkatron as a command.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dos wasn't altogether shell-less though. about par with ash or w/e they had at the time.
mircea_popescu: shit was ~windows 3.1, except actually worked, was actually useful and took like 300kb. but otherwise - exactly identical. unsurprisingly, didn't take off.
asciilifeform: and yeah , an nc-like proggy can make life on a shell-less os almost tolerable. but (as i described in earlier thread) that is not the only use.
mircea_popescu: well, let's say it did most of my work back in the day.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there were many decent clones of the dos nc : e.g., 'volkov commander'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: softwarehouse inc. was bought by ti, who 'calculatorized' it, there's an old thread
phf: trinque: i've been there, i used exwm for a couple of months. there's no end to the rabbit hole when it's made out of bits, is my point
asciilifeform: ( interestingly, the physical, calculatorized pocket derive, had stellar ui, joy to use )
a111: Logged on 2017-03-21 00:44 phf: well, i realized that environment micro optimizations are mostly a waste of time, and that something like emacs is one of the worst offenders.
mircea_popescu: come to think labout it, the extensive keybindings was the part i enjoyed least about derive.
asciilifeform: *and other
asciilifeform: (when i used 'idea', 'mathematica' other very spiffy nonemacsen specialized to tasks )
trinque: might have to do with which end of the pig you find most repellant
trinque: I dunno about the commercial lisp IDE situation but wouldn't surprise me if they're pretty ok
trinque: seems pretty reasonable; java vogons are gonna make the "best" vogonator
mircea_popescu: for all the "original cross nail" afficionados
a111: Logged on 2017-03-11 21:36 phf: that's another reason, why i don't for example, "hack my python with vim like a real hacker". give me the filthiest, most feature rich IDE, where i can just push spacebar to get half of my scaffolding, or whatever kids these days
mircea_popescu: nails really are the idiot's solution to carpentry.
asciilifeform: how to attach the pieces? ultrasonic weld?
mircea_popescu: "won't shit get randomly bent and displaced and you only get the residual friction anyway ?" "YEAH!!!"
mircea_popescu: fucking TERRIBLE idea, "oh, let's shove a hard item through the panes, that'll show 'em!"
phf: but in structural carpentry by the way they don't use nails, drills and screws. (i have experience with that one, and last time i did a build i don't think we even had a hammer)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there are several systems for which emacs support is poor/laughable/nonexistent, actually
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: perhaps the interstitial spaces carry meaning for me
phf: there's no point to answering that question, because it's irrelevant to my original point
ben_vulpes: and for these, why emacs?
mircea_popescu: which... well, let's say it generally fails to capture the interest of females, or males older than about 16.
ben_vulpes: nails are the worst metaphorkical pick.
asciilifeform: could. and so i asked him, because i'd like to see how carpenter goes along without hammer. maybe he found how to convince nails to go into wood by themselves..
mircea_popescu: he should work for the washpo huh.
phf: i didn't actually quit programming, omg. this is reminiscent of the whisperers thread, where a strawman, once chosen, because the only possible direction of conversation
asciilifeform: which under the surface, consists of not actually writing nontrivial programs.
mircea_popescu: some people (known as you know, road workers) have very strong preferences re the asphalt barrelatron.
mircea_popescu: but there is a different vehicle.
asciilifeform: there isn't a different town.
mircea_popescu: well, shouldn't you have a barrel of asphalt in your car, fix the hole ? serious people go about with barrel of asphalt tied to car.\
asciilifeform: the adult emacs.
asciilifeform: for folx who spent entire life shitting into holes in earth -- that is also not unpleasant, and does not lengthen their oodaloop.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that you gotta remember the corner cases.
asciilifeform: ( there is nothing wrong with getting successful to cocaineyacht stage of life. but i like whenfolx are ~honest~ about it )
mircea_popescu: allergy noted in the grand list of allergies.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have allergy to 'Simplicity! Is Best! Simple life, Simple toolz!!!' folx, who, on examination, are able to carry along in he delusion strictly because they do ~0 nontrivial work with own hands.
mircea_popescu: what he's proposing is that it's a tad ridiculous to keep, like every honest taxpaying, they took our jerbs murican, shiny toolkit in garage, that cost 5k to buy and used a total of 400 watts in its entire life
mircea_popescu: yes, i understand that man drowning in complexishit may find various straws to help himself keep breather holes above level for a week longer.
mircea_popescu: right back to the whole "but my balcony tomato plantation!11!"
mircea_popescu: "but the hammer's so nice" "dude we're discussing a tool by itself" "don't you think it's nice ?"
a111: Logged on 2017-03-21 01:15 phf: btcbase still runs on slime, but it's a 30 line el file that lives in the repo itself.
asciilifeform: harmful habits are not the hammer's fault.
phf: but otherwise i use whatever. it's sort of like, if you don't have a hammer, you don't go pounding nails when you have nothing btter to do
phf: btcbase still runs on slime, but it's a 30 line el file that lives in the repo itself.
phf: asciilifeform: with nothing, that's the beauty of it.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why regrets - noun wouldn't work in a language where regrets - verb in perfective aspect works out of the box and without glue. in romanian it needs glue to work, and you can say "hey, no glue for noun so you can't do that!"
mircea_popescu: it doesn't really work in romanian. i mean, a common honorific for the deceased is "regretatul" ie, the regretted. but that's about as far as that goes.
mircea_popescu: well ... it's been in the logs, so it works nao.
mircea_popescu: the matrices one ?
asciilifeform: ( the other, obligatory naggum re subj, http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3233532779857997@naggum.net.html , i.e. 'is your work expensive and uncertain because you drill 5km into ocean floor
asciilifeform: but it consists of pumping liquishit from one vessel to another.
asciilifeform: if cost of evaluation were huge because the activity consisted of travel to uncharted asteroids -- that'd be one thing.
mircea_popescu: in practice though, this theoretical distinction carries little importance.
mircea_popescu: ie, it's one thing to tell yokel your apple's a mango, it's another thing to claim your apple cures sun eclypse.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the difference between imponade and the idf is that the imponade relies on failure of those imponed upon to evaluate ; whereas the idf relies on the fundamental problem of the cost of evaluation -- sometimes it's huge.
mircea_popescu: You may, and some do, complain that there is no super-compact expression of some particular problems, but what you completely miss is that the _penalty_ for thinking "outside of the box" or outside of the "intended" uses of the language is _also_ absent.
mircea_popescu: like the lemonade of the proverbial lemonade stand that's always used as example in theoretical economics.
mircea_popescu: "we have engineers doing things|! " "What ?" "we don't actually know." "here's some money then."
mircea_popescu: and the hope is that who knows, maybe the dorks come back with some idf. in any case, up until they return, the thread can be deemed as idf as-is.
mircea_popescu: it all relies on the almighthy IDF. investor dream fuel. dja know what that is ?
ben_vulpes: which they since abandoned
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they ~have~ to be
ben_vulpes: this is a subset of the "programmers are bad at cost/benefit evaluation" thread
mircea_popescu: i wish someone here made a garage band so i could write lyrics for them.
asciilifeform: 'where is the anykey?!!1'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dunno about yours, on my kbd there is not a clit..
phf: this whole "literate" point is not so much about specific technology, as it is about rebalancing the tree from the root, so to speak, wherein it's sometimes ok to push the key 70 times
asciilifeform: fwiw i turn a knob or two in .emacs , every other year or so.
mircea_popescu: but rare indeed is the computerhead who will sit down and compare the time "improvement" takes to implement CORRECTLY, AND MAINTAIN ; vs the time it actually saves.
mircea_popescu: they do.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ancients did write 'moderation in all things', neh.
mircea_popescu: there is this very specific failure mode whereby computerists who for naive reasons decide "they don't play computer games" end up game-ifying their daily life. it is way the fuck better to level up a warlock than to dick around "saving" typing and growing a crop of tomatoes on your balcony.
asciilifeform: ( unrelatedly, phf , the ivory2 appears to be back on auction )
phf: well, i realized that environment micro optimizations are mostly a waste of time, and that something like emacs is one of the worst offenders.
phf: i've been reflecting on the implications of that point with one of the effects that i stopped using emacs (a while ago).
mircea_popescu: ot his empanadas as well as open invite from waitress who's apparently been waiting for moths for the one time mp is not with cunt in tow.
mircea_popescu: in the same vein : new dork (at least i've not seen him before) with apparent delusions of "management" at place i normally frequent. i tell him to bring me a dozen empanadas para llevar. he... didn't understand, at first, then on second pass told me to go to "the different counter", then got invited to go search for his mother's cunt, which rendered him apoplectic. /me went to other place down the street he also frequents, g
mircea_popescu: redundancy ftw, it's so luxurious. who the fuck else has shit like this, not even lizard captains.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: good -- for them.
asciilifeform: (many of the ones on my box, are custom, sorta like folx are accustomed to doing in emacs)
asciilifeform: this is just an example, of 1 among 1,001 tools in the toolbox.
ben_vulpes: well if you muck about in the dumps of civilization a rad suit is probably a good idea
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'who sent the garbage' is, in my case, a malware author.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 'rtfm' consists of reading three or so lines, saying which f-key does which.
asciilifeform: oh and then search for certain hex string in one of selfsame files.
ben_vulpes: only because you've already read the fucking manual!
asciilifeform: extract for me, in ordinary shell, from a .rar inside a .tar.gz inside a .zip, JUST THE files that differ from a subdir inside a .zip in a certain .rar. and copy to a freshly stood up box with NOTHING but bash/sshd on it.
asciilifeform: shinohai: knows how to ftp, sftp, diff directories, 1,001 other things, and extensible.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: google has the only vaguely-usable one afaik.
ben_vulpes: i kind of don't care how to pronounce the shit, reading far more important to me now
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: when i say single-key -- i mean single motherfucking F-key.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 23:17 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a "nodictionaries" for russian?
lulcoinz: do you guys have good doc on getting into the wot etc
asciilifeform: no memory leaks, either (there's fragging, and it needs ~4GB to run, but will stay within the 4GB , indefinitely. )
asciilifeform: lulcoinz: it's the bitcoin you used in 2011. ~21,000 lines, and shrinking. ( and no 'headers-first' pseudo-verification idiocy, no leveldb, no p2sh, no githubism, no dns, no glibc, various other 'noes'. large collection of exquisite noes.)
ben_vulpes: trb is "the real bitcoin"
ben_vulpes: no but seriously, why even bother hoping? run a trb node, insulate yourself from the retardation.
lulcoinz: if there is a god, I don't think he gives a shit my (or anyone elses) prayers :)
lulcoinz: i'm not the religious type, i'm more agnostic
lulcoinz: so do you guys think there will actually be a hard fork anytime soon?
ben_vulpes: come ye with lultithes or lultidings?
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a "nodictionaries" for russian?
shinohai: Ba dumm tiss ( *rotten to the CORE*)
ben_vulpes: WHERE ARE THE TRB TOKENS, EH?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'extruded product' << You know, the most consistently high quality American products of the day appear to be made by "Rubbermaid Commercial Products" (not to be confused with Rubbermaid Consumer Products), best trashcans!
trinque tried, got segfault upon running the binary
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : g5 is valuable , on top of other reasons, to test 'bigendian' behaviours of various proggies.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: gosh golly, "pushing the envelope" was such a quaint affair in 1985.
mircea_popescu: "i don't give a shit about rutherford's labels" dun reduce to "there were none" except in your own frame.
asciilifeform: 'one time we got lost in the woods, and i was afraid that i would have to eat Tippy. then we were rescued, and i put Tippy back into the fridge, next to the other sandwiches.'
mircea_popescu: not according to the many folks.
mircea_popescu: "does that mean the other jar couldn't then replace this one ?" "that's EXACTLY what it means!"
mircea_popescu: "why did you put the label on the jar, mr rutherford ?" "to distinguish it from another jar."
mircea_popescu: nobody with a name is replaceable. this follows from the definitions.
asciilifeform: and yes, stalin famously uttered the sage wisdom, 'we ain't got any nonreplaceable people here'
asciilifeform: somehow i suspect that when mircea_popescu gets into an airplane, he would like to find that it has triply- or higher- redundant avionics system, rather than 'oh it is redundant because if this one goes down, there will be another plane, with some other bloke in it, some other day, dun worry.'
asciilifeform: well the geological europe aint going anywhere, no
asciilifeform: it'll close strictly in the 'hunchback will straighten in his grave' sense.
mircea_popescu: just like the mongols did.
asciilifeform: that will not likely close, it'll be pushing up the flowers.
trinque: man does the same at scale
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again, not 'arbitrary' for purpose of subj , put a bullet ( or dose of gamma, or whatnot ) through bacterial culture, and it closes the hole in a few hrs, and who could say there ever was a hole. but try same hole through mouse, or man.
trinque: I dunno what changes there distinct from you falling asleep in one spot, being moved 5ft over, and waking up
asciilifeform: (i'd quite happily walk into the mythical teleporter, for instance.)
mircea_popescu: so then you know, arbitrarily defined cell collection is arbitrarily defined cell collection. hoop.
asciilifeform: some folx have finicky and easily bothered 'senses of identity'. not i
mircea_popescu: ~no cells present at your birth are still there, seems to not bother your sense of identity.
asciilifeform: ( it is not even really correct to say 'one bacterium readily stands in for another', the dish does not live and die 'as group' )
asciilifeform: whereas if instead of dish you have a mouse, having such things as white cells, liver, other 'specialized parts', then considerably higher bar.
asciilifeform: but does relate to the radiation thing, deinococcus radiodurans laughs at dose that's thermonuke every other living thing, but it very much helps that one deinococcus radiodurans is readily 'fungible', will substitute for any other in the dish.
mircea_popescu: naught besides the obvious "happens in a head".
asciilifeform: 0 to do with the psychiatric 'i'm speshul!' tho.
asciilifeform: speaking strictly of the elementary diff b/w 'man and fungus'
asciilifeform: normally 'special' because 'specialized multi-cell organs', rather than simply 'glued'
mircea_popescu: (this is just a play on the fundamental fact that THERE IS NO MEANING IN NATURE. there's no such thing as "people" or "individual" or "life" or "god" etc irl. all psychogenic noise, the happenstance branches of your own process of organizing the exterior, unrelated to the exterior.)
mircea_popescu: myeah. though if it's proper to speak of you as individual, why exactly not of 1 bn worth of bacterial cells together ?
asciilifeform: quite elementarily 'species -- needs', otherwise ~0 mutation and ~0 adaptation to changing environs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on contemplation, the need-radiation organisms are probably bacteria. i imagine it figures heftily in the "endless adaptability of life on earth" for anything with short (subweek ?) cycles. from coprophyta to drosophila, most of the biomass.
trinque: what loser did you ever meet who was solidly convinced of the truth?
trinque: quite the contrary
asciilifeform: and who is to even say who they are. programmer, growing sclerotic in his chair, does he die more slowly than the radium girl ?
asciilifeform: to maybe revisit upstack, some folx 'marginal' and have very little to offer economically other than 'morts', 'willing to clear mines', 'clean melted reactor'
trinque: ben_vulpes: ah nothing will stand up through the next big san andreas fault slip
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 03:47 mircea_popescu: imagine if in a few years the actual fucking chunks of metal are the point of worship. "oh man, that's tech! who can make straight angles anymore!"