asciilifeform: as per mircea_popescu's old piece, 'They tend to show up late at parties because they figure they can always steal the cake anyway, so why bother go early ? Let the suckers figure out first - on their own dime - where the good cakes are'
mircea_popescu: this is usually included by the shorthand string "bibliography"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger so if it does not make that statement, it imports, like any research paper EVER, the following "the authors have conducted a full review of extant literature relevant to their topic, and swear that the following list is complete and correct :"
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i don't see how this is enabling. by that metric, *everything* is enabling. someone used phuctor to hack into box, phuctor enabled them?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: no; and in fact they did carry out experiments, in the sense of data being gathered (including new data - about the state of onion DHT.)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger alright. does this paper make the statement "we conducted no research of extant art, because [we're too cool for that ; princeton forked off reality ; whatever]" ?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: the next act of the opera ( which we've already watched a few times ) is the chorus of seekoority bloggers etc going on and on re the 'discovery'
diana_coman: first and foremost I take issue with pretending that an unaknowledged repackaging of other people's work mostly pretends to be research
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: *any* pointers to the methodology; *any* untrue or glossy parts; *any* stretching in the conclusion sectoin.
Framedragger: "#trilema dislikes a random irrelevant paper for not having mentioned phuctor; the rest of the discussion is about how academia used to be better."
diana_coman: Framedragger, the alphabetic ordering of names is inconsequential; that was just chuckles really
Framedragger: diana_coman: do you take issue with any *particular* points, or just the "alphabetic ordering of names oh no"?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman yeah, recall all the hissy fits about "oh this prof translated work, EVIL!11"
mircea_popescu: the only problem with this is that it's essentially fraudulent : princeton goes about to old people pretending it's a college, but in reality it's a diploma mill like any other. EXACTLY in the vein of how argentina goes about europe pretending it's a country an' trying to borrow money, when irl it's less of a country than my model train set.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the interesting bit is that the enemy applies mircea_popescu's 'outsiders may NOT have ideas' thing quite well. 'oh, those terrorists made sonething? hiw cute. we'll take it and get $100 mil in grantola.'
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I suppose that's pretty much the thing here: by now this is the "best" one can see from that area
Framedragger: i mean, a large part of the paper is exposition. rsa, dht (relevant to how onion services work), etc.; so, it's not *interesting*. but it's not in any particular way shitty. i wouldn't have read it otherwise and certainly do not see it as very valuable.
Framedragger: btw the "which onion services targeted by those malicious relays" part of the paper is quite nice (from initial glance).
mircea_popescu: which is the best possible construction i can put on Framedragger 's notions. "hey, this is what college MEANS NOW. sorry."
mircea_popescu: now, i can see the merit in an argument along the lines of "what the fuck do you want mp, research ? how the fuck is that going to happen if you insist on sticking all the cowpokes indoors ? they'll do what they can, nod along with the rest of the "academia".
diana_coman: esp for those in the know of academia-on-the-topic-of-author-order it screams desperate hunger
diana_coman: on a side note, the only truly lulzy part in there is the footnote on page 1 "All four authors contributed substantially and share first authorship. The names are ordered alphabetically"
Framedragger: diana_coman: i haven't read the method section yet but so far so good.
Framedragger: wasn't a rhetorical question. but i certainly do not wish to waste tmsr's cpu cycles, so no need to answer, either
mircea_popescu: Framedragger no you didn't see it because i had a discussion over coffee before taking the pics with a girl, so this matters now.
diana_coman: Framedragger, fwiw there really is no meaningful way to defend that paper
mircea_popescu: mp's genuine original theatre. doing things that are useful and interesting. give me tax money nao!
mircea_popescu: (there was also some work done with blackface in 1715, but that was in france. that's it though, since 1715!)
mircea_popescu: also, i invented blackface last week. want to see the first best greatest blackface performance in history of world ?
mircea_popescu: look, there's people with all sorts of strange beliefs. i'm not in the business of forcing ideological compatibility. you can live with it, more power to you.
mircea_popescu: fucking ridiculous question. "what did soviet nuclear programme take from allies ? IT IS ALL BASIC SCIENCE!! THERES NAPKINS WITH FARTS DRAWN ON THEM SINCE 1933!111!!"
Framedragger: there is no cognitive dissonance in my mind. i know those peeps personally and also simultaneously do not observe any plagiarism. they used things from those 2012 and 2016 projects.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: there is more than one way to steal.
mircea_popescu: you mean, on the public record ? so next time starry-eyed Framedragger walks in and is all "oh, princeton, respectable institution" i link him above3 and he has to somehow deal with the cognitive dissonance ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: what original thing did they take from phuctor, may i ask?
mircea_popescu: since when the fuck does stern look @ slavegirl include litany of misdeeds ? let HER know what she did wrong and let HER fix it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll include the why in a formal proceeding. let them FIRST clean up their act
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd include the 'why'
asciilifeform: i in fact did 'write to their ml', review what came of it.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: do you recall the seclist thread ?
Framedragger: well, why don't i (unless someone else already planned to do it first?) write to those folks on that ML, informing of phuctor, to see their response? maybe futile at this point and useless, but at least a more constructive reaction.
asciilifeform: and various media folx ( the risky.biz people, i wrote to several times also , for instance. 0 reply. )
Framedragger: the fact that djb knows and ignores does indeed speak ill of him, i agree.
asciilifeform: they ~know~
Framedragger: granted, phuctor gets crawled *more* / *a lot* (i presume, from what you had been telling). so i understand the incredulity of "you haven't heard?!!"
asciilifeform: and to others.
Framedragger: well, my relay descriptor search service also got crawled loads, but the fact that people didn't know about it wasn't because people ignored it; but just that meat-people (not bots) weren't aware of it.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: tall order, it gets crawled every 3 sec. and is ~top hit for, e.g., ~every pgp keyid on the planet.
Framedragger: and you absolutely cannot fathom the humble thought that they simply didn't hear about phuctor?
asciilifeform: the 'nothing to see here, move along, it was all this one d00d with broken key gen' aspect is also lulzy.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ok i've read it; so your chief issue is that they didn't mention phuctor in-between the initial 2012 study and the 2016 years correct? i mean, bear with me, i'm not baiting.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: wait you must mean some other page than https://nymity.ch/anomalous-tor-keys/ because para 3 on there starts with "What does our work mean for Tor users?"
asciilifeform: to another similar derp in 2016
asciilifeform: goes straight from heninger, who, while a hot chick, never published the actual data !
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the "originate the idea" hogwash is ridiculouys. next you'\re going to bring defenses in copyright cases based on "grimm brothers didn't invent the alphabet so therefore ineptitude is a ok!!1"
asciilifeform: ~euclid~ originated 'the idea'
Framedragger: so, phuctor didn't originate the idea, is all.
Framedragger: possible weaknesses of rsa keys and the idea to run a "your relay key is weak" service as part of tor metrics infrastructure (tor metrics itself is an old project, ca. 2011)
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : try and find WHERE you register a complaint with teh fucking shitshow that pretends to be a university.
Framedragger: how about "was discussed in developer meetings *long ago*" (the counter will be "you didn't tell us then so FU", so w/e i guess.)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: didja read the quoted bit ?
mircea_popescu: ima file a complaint with the princeton plagiarism police.
Framedragger knows phf and asn from that list personally and knows for certain that they didn't 'plagiarize' from phuctor. but whatever, if phuctor not cited, it's plagiarism because independent thought not possible, etc.
asciilifeform: ( goes straight from heninger etc 'Most recently, in 2016, Hastings et al. [3] revisited the problem of weak keys and investigated how many such keys were still on the Internet four years after the initial studies. ' )
mircea_popescu: there's by now a list of about 3-4 of these, all of them similarily sufficient on own strength.
mircea_popescu: and in ib, i expect the correct indexing will still be block height . tx index.
mircea_popescu: this item clearly gets rolled up into the "either move to ib or die with prb" eventual fork.
asciilifeform: i can only describe the known cuts here. it's this, or live with no-sane-index and geometric-grinds-to-a-halt.
mircea_popescu: right or wrong make absolutely no difference, even though it's how the female brain gets caught in this
mircea_popescu: understand something about "declarations" in this vein : they themselves are an attack, if you can't universally enforce them. the us collapsed out of an attempt to declare that "they, not us, are the bad guys" without the actual strength to enforce this ; so did the soviet union, and so does every inept mother who tries to tell her kid what to do out of line.
asciilifeform: even though shitoshi, through having been dropped as a child, theoretically permitted it.
asciilifeform: i propose a declaration of 'tx replacement is an attack against sane bitcoin and whoever does it, is the forker, and not us, who thereafter ban it in trb and subsequent proggies.'
asciilifeform: see the difference though ?
asciilifeform: tx replacement , and the mere contemplation of 'pruning', are a carefully crafted enemy rot weapon.
asciilifeform: thing is, there is NO sane (i.e. o(1)) way to index without demanding unique global txid.
asciilifeform: it worx internally (in e.g., nqb) but the mere fact of tx replacement idiocy being supported in shitoshi's turd, means that a tx is not, in principle, self-contained, can mean entirely different movement if meanwhile its txid got recycled
mircea_popescu: there is that. but his proposed de facto multiindex (block height txn height txid) works.
asciilifeform still brainmelting over the 'txid is not unique' horrors
mircea_popescu: well... it's in there.
mircea_popescu: now then : 09f691b2263260e71f363d1db51ff3100d285956a40cc0e4f8c8c2c4a80559b1 spends a4bfa8ab6435ae5f25dae9d89e4eb67dfa94283ca751f393c1ddc5a837bbc31b ; for this purpose it actually uses the genesis block hash.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 13:18 asciilifeform: is what i see in there
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 13:16 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i misstated. it spends bitcoin (from a4bfa8ab6435ae5f25dae9d89e4eb67dfa94283ca751f393c1ddc5a837bbc31b ) for which purpose it needs the genesis block hash
asciilifeform: linked last mo rather
asciilifeform: iirc that was from the tardstalk thread last month
asciilifeform: the scripttron offers no such knob as 'gimme a block hash', not in satoshi's thing
mircea_popescu: god i'm going to have to delve into the whole pile of ancient history
asciilifeform: is what i see in there
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how does it need the genesisblockhash?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i remember the 'stoned' lul
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i misstated. it spends bitcoin (from a4bfa8ab6435ae5f25dae9d89e4eb67dfa94283ca751f393c1ddc5a837bbc31b ) for which purpose it needs the genesis block hash
mircea_popescu: in other random lulz / things nobody notices, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-21#521918 <<->> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/18/bitcoin_user_stoned_on_virus_warnings/
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 13:08 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes take for instance 09f691b2263260e71f363d1db51ff3100d285956a40cc0e4f8c8c2c4a80559b1 : it spends bitcoin produced in the genesis block, and it thereby uses the hash of that block.
mircea_popescu: (ie, if you don't also save the block hash, you can't do some edge cases of (currently mostly unsupported, but historically used) txn.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes take for instance 09f691b2263260e71f363d1db51ff3100d285956a40cc0e4f8c8c2c4a80559b1 : it spends bitcoin produced in the genesis block, and it thereby uses the hash of that block.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 05:09 a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 00:23 ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=wires_rev1#0261 << kinda looks like all one needs to bake CTxIn's is the hash of the transaction and output index, can someone spot check this for me?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-05#1637547 << you certainly need the pubkey of the input address, which was back in the day the rationale behind the whole "don't reuse addresses" thing -- the pubkey of an address which has paid before is known ; the pubkey of an address which has not paid before isn't known.
shinohai: Q: who here in this circle-jerk sycophant orgy supports the delusion of ideal money, given that Buttcoin is an anti-fragile standard top-down controlled by whales? Ideal for whom? No need to wait for the lulz."
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 00:23 ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=wires_rev1#0261 << kinda looks like all one needs to bake CTxIn's is the hash of the transaction and output index, can someone spot check this for me?
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1636874 << directly relevant. afaict, producing a transaction with trb code boils down to making a 'ctransaction' with 'vin's shaped per the constructor http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=wires_rev1#0261
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pretty sure you also need the block hash somewhere
lobbes smells a tmsr archive server in the future
mircea_popescu: heh in other lulz : archive.is apparently purged all trilema saves older than sept 2016.
shinohai: Whether it be Aunt Jemimah or Anti-Semitic Russians, long as I get mine.
mircea_popescu: tl;dr tedious poetess grabs some bread and meat for the ancestors. reparations, bitch!!1
CompanionCube is a uktard but doesn't particularly like it. There's not exactly much to like at the moment.
mircea_popescu: if anyone had asked the uktards anything it'd even make a difference what they thought.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 23:34 pete_dushenski: in other bids and asks, insurers are slapping safety conscious car buyers with HIGHER premiums. lol as they should. http://archive.is/nUH19 . http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1637487 being the controlling point.
CompanionCube: ' The Cable.co.uk poll of 2,000 UK adults – the first of its kind since the Westminster attack – found that 66% believe the ability of intelligence agencies to intercept messages between terrorist plotters is more valuable than the digital privacy of the population as a whole.' 'More than half (51%) said they would feel safer if WhatsApp and other messaging services were unencrypted because message sent
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 20:42 Framedragger: goddamnit, no email no nothing, the satire (http://n-gate.com/about/) is just too complete for its own good
pete_dushenski: in other golden oldies, "Warren Buffett’s face will appear on cans of Cherry Coke in China, an attempt by Coca-Cola Co. to capitalize on its biggest and most famous investor."
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes | in other ICE news, i got the drift slut sideways a few nights ago! << nice! i'm guessing this was on pavement but have you tried gravel drifting ? (it's a ton of fun and the lowest speed way to practise left-foot-braking)
ben_vulpes: and in other occlusions and hexagons: http://68.media.tumblr.com/ae93737a2c74237e5f555d7a055c90eb/tumblr_onwagxz5dQ1s2jikwo1_1280.jpg
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 23:29 shinohai: Simple. Let them think they are in control and bleed all their money.
pete_dushenski: in other bids and asks, insurers are slapping safety conscious car buyers with HIGHER premiums. lol as they should. http://archive.is/nUH19 . http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1637487 being the controlling point.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: remind me, why's her name on the whiteboard to begin with ?
ben_vulpes: stern glares, and a mark under her name on the whiteboard
ben_vulpes: to which the smarter of the girls in circulation sasses back with "well what makes /you/ so worth obeying?"
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1637461 << funny you should say that, the line around here of late has been "OBEDIENCE IS THE ONLY CRITERIA"
pete_dushenski: some cars (ferrari) have paddles mounted to the column so they're fixed regardless of wheel position. most others have the paddles fixed to the steering wheel proper and so they all move in unison. it's sort of a different strokes debate.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1637449 << it's a porsche 911 from the last 10 years. 'tiptronic' trans (you can see the silver thumb paddled on the wheel, which were and are widely reviled)
shinohai: There is a Mexican lady here that makes best damned queso blanco I've ever had. I've already stocked up on like 3 wheels of it.
shinohai: Is this some of the queso blanco popular in that area ?
mircea_popescu: there's no scent whatsoever. at all. no runny. no mold. the hunk of petrocheese is entirely undisturbed, as "fresh" as it was when it left the plant, five years ago or whatever.
mircea_popescu: at which point the trouble starts
mircea_popescu: mp takes the item home, and over a dish of oyster mushrooms lightly sauteed opens up the TRIPLE WRAPPED!!111 thing.
mircea_popescu: mp can not possibly resist buying 75% discounted cheese to find out why and wherefore it might have so offended the locals.
mircea_popescu: the items were discounted 25% and now had been discounted 75%!
mircea_popescu: in other sad stories, mp goes to very well appointed market, purchases litany of items. notices chunks of discounted cheese floating around in tub of iced water
ben_vulpes: shoot, gave away the game
ben_vulpes: in over-fucking-polished-and-is-that-a-vin-i-see's: http://its-about-the-car.tumblr.com/image/159185818055
shinohai rather enjoyed ben_vulpes doggy selctions
ben_vulpes: well if we're doing themes, i have my own set queued up
shinohai: Neither does Atlanta, you should see some of the land whales billing themselves as "High-class escorts"
mircea_popescu: to continue the trend, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqi4h8YRfU1qd0ln0o1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: 50yo whore is in a ditch somewhere, and her teeth in another ditch somewhere els.e
mircea_popescu: think in terms of that cartoon re final cs class at stanford : "and you are the idiots who didn't get hired in 2nd or 3rd year". same deal, whoring is a fine plan for cut-above-rest 16yo. by the time she's 30 she's either married or too rich to care.
ben_vulpes: there is also some tiny arbitrage opportunity available i must point out; lock up the contract and then sell her off into improper slavery
ben_vulpes: sez right there she'd be down
shinohai: I suppose there was a shortage of youger, more nubile slaves in that particular region of Latin America.
mircea_popescu: shinohai meh, contracts. how the fuck is this supposed to work.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: the interesting thing from my pov is that he had a stable connection forever
shinohai: znc is too much necromancy for the lurkers
shinohai: Yeah he was a Senior Software Engineer for the Alphabet agency xD
mircea_popescu: !!rate matthrew garret -10 "former klout expert on paul graham". irredeemable shithead.
mircea_popescu: if memory serves hearn was also merit washed as "something or the other" engineer at google.
shinohai: The twitter complaints are actually hilarious "Can we stop linking to the n-gate HN stuff? The author's just generically contemptuous rather than having any real insight into HN culture"
Framedragger: goddamnit, no email no nothing, the satire (http://n-gate.com/about/) is just too complete for its own good
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 17:47 mircea_popescu: honestly i kinda lost interest once it was about shithead news.
shinohai: I love this one "Hackernews wants it to use TLS, the better to paste passwords into it without feeling bad."
mircea_popescu: "The Muskonauts post their latest launch on Youtube. Hackernews thinks their kids will give a shit whether Elon recycled rockets. The hilarity of Hackernews expectations of the near future is not outweighed by the repetition of the typical Hackernews output on space travel: space is not worth exploring, yes it is, nobody will use this, yes they will, and then six thousand pages of bad economic theory."
mircea_popescu: Maximum Hackernews is achieved as the sentence "I am too stupid to understand the context of academic research" is expressed as "now if you implemented this as a web app, i'd be sharing it with everybody"
shinohai: If it was a real girl they'd have to settle for someone like covertress I imagine.
mircea_popescu: ke aimless poorly-managed floundering. IRCv3 continues to be a retarded pile of solutions to the wrong problems."
mircea_popescu: "Google continues the war against their own users. The XMPP Memorial Society trades barbs about whose fault it is that a misdesigned overengineered shitshow of a protocol failed to gain traction amongst non-erlang enthusiasts. Every single messaging platform in current existence is held up as Obviously The Future. Hackernews tries to figure out what Google's master plan is, and why Google is working so hard to make it look li
mircea_popescu: i dunno, krill at mit in the 80s.
asciilifeform: ( in other lulz, re much earlier thread, https://www.google.com/patents/EP0099946A1?cl=en )
mircea_popescu: (old and therefore stupid cunt figured she's too good to go in the mud bare cunt, so she took a dress.)
mircea_popescu: that'd be THE LEG
shinohai: dafuq is that thing on the far right in that pic mircea_popescu ?
asciilifeform: http://computers-are-fast.github.io ( linked from the loltron ) <<<>>> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=300 .
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, notice THE LEG ? https://68.media.tumblr.com/9ff0aa6b62a82c76eb8eab2e2b6692fe/tumblr_nfp6uoUwc51shcyjro1_1280.png
mircea_popescu: you're in scotland after all, what the hell do you care!!1
Framedragger: ok will drop an email to the chap if can find an address.
mircea_popescu: if anyone does, see if the n-gate dude wants to do a qntra weekly ? he sounds just about right.
mircea_popescu: that's ok, the salaries have been slimming continuously. soon enough shinohai 's girls will be making more than paul graham's bois.
asciilifeform: 'Not a single goddamn Hackernews makes the obvious connection to the shit they do at work all day for a living. The tacit consensus: Hackernews isn't bad for creating the tools of surveillance capitalism; Congress is bad for letting people use them.'
ben_vulpes: > "The Rust Evangelism Strikeforce speculates on when they can move on to shitting up web development"
Framedragger: (n-gate.com has HN update for the last week of march and it's a riot, http://n-gate.com/)
mircea_popescu: in other #trilema does my homework, can anyone explain wtf a "factory reset" that wipes the hdd would be ? windows speak for reinstall ?
ben_vulpes: just stay the fuck out of bull run valley
ben_vulpes: there are plenty of places to slime hood
mircea_popescu: re "ferociously protected". "we dun need no women on mt hood, stinking up the water supply with their womanly lyes and lures."
ben_vulpes: shinohai: if they don't have a rep in here, it's vaporware by default
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do you recall the oglaf with "song of sword and saddle" or what was it
shinohai: I have little faith they'll ever actually get a working product, rootstock has been endless blather on reddit for well over a year.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: betcha it's better than the well water south of portland
mircea_popescu: and now i shall leave you for a typical mp ritual, whereby i line up all the shot glasses in the house, fill each with a different kind of mineral water and make the rules that'll dominate purchasing henceforth. brb.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc there is a famous 'poison garden' in england somewhere
ben_vulpes: "yes honey, beautiful beautiful death, all over the carport"
mircea_popescu: or at the club, i suppose.
ben_vulpes: so i read a bit about datura, "moonflower, that sounds familiar...hey baby aren't you doing something with moonflower in the backyard this year?" "yeah! it's going to be beautiful" "..." "is this about how daturas are poisonous?" "..." "it's going in on the carport where dog and child can't get to it"
mircea_popescu: i was just idly following the sign up thread.
mircea_popescu: it was 100% datura. enough there for a medium sized book club.
asciilifeform: this was in the logs
mircea_popescu: so i break one off, smell it, handle it, we arrive at the coffee house, i put it into one of the water cups they serve with coffee. meet local girl, ask her if she knows what this beautiful flower is, she does not.
asciilifeform: and the plugging of pillbox embrasures with own torso
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever explain to her who's gonna be doing the falling on grenades ?
mircea_popescu: the funny part is that i suspect it's entirely lost on her as of yet who's gonna be tasting them.
mircea_popescu: "no hon. i'm not the right age for self-testing anymore. that's more of a 16yo thing."
asciilifeform: trinque: probably why threads re thompsonism tend to focus on gcc : it is THE failure point
mircea_popescu: so today she asks, "But the question is, if that tree makes fruit, and they pretty much look like cherries... will you try one ?"
mircea_popescu: in related story : i was walking with girl yesterday among this beautiful townlet. off one fence, an explosive arbust sent its POISON RED flowers. i examined it because curious, and decided it's actually some kind of cherry tree ?!?! right leaves, right petals except for the color, everything.
asciilifeform utterly fails to grasp the line of thought here
mircea_popescu: i will say, people tend to be amazed at what can fit in a head once proper trees are constructed for the fitting.
phf: well, presumably all this only applies when you have fits in head. otherwise you have to fallback to counterparty
mircea_popescu: (9yo mp actually did these determinations by hand. how about 2 vs 2 ? how about 1+1 vs 2 ? how about...)
mircea_popescu: yes, but i played heroes while they did that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu when you were a kid, did the local boys also do the 'well ~i'll~ X' 'battle of wits' thing ? 'tomorrow i'll bring a TANK!' 'well ~i~ will bring antitank gun!' '~i~ will bring battleship!'
a111: Logged on 2017-02-24 02:36 asciilifeform: veen: let's try a historical angle. according to legend, emperor qin shi huangdi (same d00d as known for taking the 'immortality pill' and promptly croaking) had a palace with 1,500 rooms. and would not tell anyone in advance which one he plans to sleep in on a given night. and which ones he would put cutthroats in, ready to kill anyone who opens door. think 'minesweeper.'
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-24#1617495 << this interested me the other day because my emulated asciilifeform does not approve of mitigations; the model described also can be implemented in meat
a111: Logged on 2017-03-31 18:09 mircea_popescu: actually i was thinking, im not going to hold another conference, because it's just not a sane opsec proposition. however, one fellow at a time coming down for a week or somesuch is more than tenable. what's airfare, fiddy bux ? pack up the missus an' come say hi.
asciilifeform: it'd quickly become apparent, neh, whether mircea_popescu (or whoever) did.
asciilifeform: and enumerate them.
asciilifeform: it is the 'sarin' case : finding that you have been fucked, does 0 to unfuck.
asciilifeform: and that we find this AFTER we put pogos on bottom of the sea, and on mars, in cement plinths.
asciilifeform: in the sense where, by the time you have any notice, you also have some serious problems.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sat there.
mircea_popescu: "spot check model doesn't mater, if there's phosgene in the air you're fucked" "yes, well, i think i might notice the phosgene. by you know, how the gals drop like flies."
mircea_popescu: and the reason it doesn't matter is because it's impossible not to stumble on the one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the spot check model is, again, wholly inadequate. if you have ONE debianism or heartbleed etc. it literally does not matter worth a shit how 'clean' the remainder of it may have been.
mircea_popescu: it's also strictly opposite to the "human rights" imbecility.
mircea_popescu: it goes way the fuck earlier than that, the whole thing with clay stamps and ancient babylonians etc.
mircea_popescu: but in practical terms, i don't check all the living space all the time. i check random spots at random times and if they're dirty somebody sleeps in a zebra costume. this method keeps the place well clean, and it's how management works. hence the discussion of genovese merchants etc.
mircea_popescu: the adage "trust, but verify" works splendidly when enough people do enough spot checking.
phf: we were comming from the direction of debian on 10 cds though, so restating my original point: i think bootstrapping can be solved with counterparty as an alternative to fits in head, i.e. i don't mind an approach where in order to bootstrap i get a binary from l1, that i use as a rich subtrate from which i can bootstrap.
phf: i think i see why we got on this thread. i was saying that bootstrapping is always a counterparty problem. i missed that that's not the case for fits in head (i think ascii might've tried pointing that out to me).
a111: Logged on 2017-04-04 16:07 asciilifeform: 'gotta support 10,001 incompatible but otherwise equivalent shits' is a serious hell. it plagued armies in ww1 ('hey a trainload of ammo just came. but none of it fits our 7 types of rifle, it's all for that 8th'), the sov icbm forces ('we have parts but not for these 4 types of rocket, they are for 5th') etc
asciilifeform: there is VERY little that you can say re a multi-MB binturd without spending several $mil.
mircea_popescu: but to a large degree i can predict what the ailments of the women naked on the floor will be as time withers them.
asciilifeform: i gotta object to the analogy with the egg and rotten kid. this is more like 'which of these children will get which type of cancer, and when.'
mircea_popescu: there's no dispute whatsoever then. except maybe for this much : that problem is a problem in the sense thermic death is a problem. always and everywhere without let or respite.
phf: i don't ~refuse~ it, i'm saying that differential approach is ~required~ because there's a problem. otherwise there'd be no need for an approach. i don't think it matters that approach is already presant for other purposes
mircea_popescu: i can judge whether an egg is rotten or not without being a hen myself. i can tell which kids aren't worth bothering with though i'm no mother "and i don't understand them like she does" etcetera.