asciilifeform: me neither
ben_vulpes: no, the thing that plays sesame street so that you can play candy crush instead of parenting
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> it's a thing that has 2 modes, 'ahci' and 'legacy' (or 'compatibility') << I refer to these modes internally as "James Lafond Presents Baltimore" and "Antebellum Kitchen"
asciilifeform: ( a booted up and warm pc, does not use the bios rom for anything at all. other than when you write to it. )
asciilifeform: if you have a very steady hand, and own a plcc puller (fivebux or so, or look in the very bottom of your oldest toolbox) you can do this safely.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: incidentally... if you're a brave man, you can get by without a programmator at all. hot-lift the chip, while box is running, insert blank chip, and reflash.
asciilifeform: well, when you find an unsupported rom, there is always the last resort: http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/mwredux/romsucker_large.png + http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/mwredux/romsucker_working.png + http://loper-os.nfshost.com/pub/mwrom/romsucker.tgz ...
asciilifeform: (forget about their software)
asciilifeform: afaik there is no known alternative to tl866 today other than 'spend a kilo$ and use dedicated winblowz box.'
asciilifeform: the chinese tl866 works for ~99% of known eproms, eeproms, GALs, PALs, micros.
asciilifeform: afaik it is the ONLY ONE with documented interface and something like reasonable linux support.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mega-advice from asciilifeform's house of pain : back up the eeprom !!!
asciilifeform: tyan has the option
mircea_popescu: because otherwise it doesn't loop and fails to find it.
mircea_popescu: is that from the raid controller ? "unusual device" ?
asciilifeform: ( the raid ? plain sata ? )
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i have not tried it personally. but, given the vintage, i suspect that it is same chip as on my 3ware.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: mine had an empty pad where the raid oughta be, so i have nfi
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 18:06 mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what format is the mysql database stored as, sql ? its native binary whatever it is ?
asciilifeform: but, upstack : it is not yet clear which the 'failed language' is.
mircea_popescu: merv, or generally the mongol reduction of persia from a coupla million to a coupla hundred thousand is the fundamental civilisational act. not the building of the scum, but the purging of it. much like "writing prb" is not an achievement in computer science ; but purging it into trb is.
mircea_popescu: hey, what can i tell you. if you were in the town when the town caught a little fire, uncle celestial teapot wants you. noli turbare circulos meos may work, but just as well may not work.
asciilifeform: if the sun were still shining on the brit empire, and 'no shit , the monkeys are monkeys, we simply haven't gotten around to rendering them for meat and occupying the valuable lands' -- this position would be tenable.
asciilifeform: which is the 'failed males' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: south kr (or, specifically, the american puppet gov there) was quintessential 'kowtow' : their first dictator was quite equiv. to a figure like quisling, even had a medal personally pinned on him by hirohito -- for hunting partisans in the north (partisans of whom kim the 1st was the chief, incidentally)
mircea_popescu: did i recount the story of the very respectable fellow who lived with us for a week or so early 90s ?
mircea_popescu: the correct path forward to "make america great again" is to kill everyone male and ship everyone female to beijing for auctioning off.
mircea_popescu: note that at the time british liutenant fucked "empress of true sky blabla" because he felt like it that day, the english were also "outnumbered"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by the time you have 'failed males' lined up for butchery, it's game over, and no one remembers the internal wank.
mircea_popescu: this is a delusion shared by all orcs, including the original jucheans.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is drastically untrue. the part that has any sort of intellectual future is the butchering of the failed males.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you suppose their wankery is, besides "oh, we got nothing but teh fighting spirit! princeton lives on!11"
asciilifeform: Framedragger: twist: the part of ru that has any kind of intellectual or even biological future -- is the juche.
Framedragger: (the latter (irredentist) in my mind are filed under 'reactionary' (maybe not the right word), yeah; iac, many fall into these, it seems)
mircea_popescu: as for instance the recent princeton thing may have suggested, /me is not at all fond of this juche business.
asciilifeform: assimilationist ('i'ma go to new york and suck white cock the rest of my days') or irredentist ('i'ma learn to ride horses, shoot rifles, and kill as many of them as i can')
mircea_popescu: but what is the observation ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am making an observation here, rather than prescription. (teaching tiny and hopelessly outnumbered eastern monkeystans how to kill billion-man enemy -- is above my pay grade)
mircea_popescu: that's the correct solution to "we all started in 5k bc, but zee germanz got tanks first"
mircea_popescu: what happened to "butcher all the males, sell all the females into prostitution", like god intended ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the sense where 'let! whole world gang up on our tiny country, we will soldier on' it is not a shining success, no.
mircea_popescu: seems to me ~= to the idiocy in http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#footnote_4_55254
asciilifeform: means 'bow to the great ones'
asciilifeform: i forget the original term, but translates to eng as something like 'kowtow' (originally itself a corruption of chinese word)
asciilifeform: there is an opposite of it, that you don't get to hear about much,
asciilifeform: juche ~= 'we may be savages, and our trucks have wheels with bamboo spokes, but they are OUR trucks'
asciilifeform: alf is not expert on the east, but knows a little of the insider wank, and suspects that it is relevant, so:
asciilifeform: represents one of the possible 'magnetic poles' for a small, unimportant country living next to great empire
asciilifeform: it is thought to be a trademark of north kr, but really goes back to the time of confucius
CompanionCube: asciilifeform: the north korean ideology? not really.
phf: Framedragger: right, you have dom, you have running javascript, can do all kinds of things to dump/before dump. what you don't have through any legitimate means is the byte sequence for a linked object. at least with headless webkit (via Qt) you can instrument cache with special methods that would give you that data. selenium not at all
Framedragger: phf: ugggghhh. (now i recall you possibly mentioning this in relation to archive.is; i see i see.. that's what they do)
mircea_popescu: i dunno "same reason ustard did it" applies outside of "the country"
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-05#1638105 << dumping dom is not hard (it's innerhtml attribute on document.body/head), extracting images/objects is harder. used to be able to do it using canvas, but not there's security provisions. you literally have to go into the browser's cache (via internal apis) to got the graphic, etc. back. or else redownload, which is rife with potential issues
CompanionCube: why would putin bomb their own place like that
asciilifeform: before the corpses cold, even.
asciilifeform: sop narrative, the pantsuit folx are automagically 'putler did it'
asciilifeform: major wank there, also
mircea_popescu: more liek being the whore.
asciilifeform: in the end you're just as dead.
asciilifeform: yes, will take you 9001 shots for the roulette revolver to fire.
asciilifeform: the loading per se, with civilian browser + e.g., selenium, is trivial. the ~cleanup~ (run in vm? restore state how ?) is the tricky bit.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron for the record it's snippet not snippit
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what format is the mysql database stored as, sql ? its native binary whatever it is ?
mircea_popescu: part of the problem being that common browser instructed to "Save page" will proceed to save the html rather than the dom, or however you call the ast in www.
mircea_popescu: yeah. it sounds like the right thing but in the process of so sounding hides under a welded shut hood all the design trade-offs which'll need to be made.
asciilifeform: 'deedbot for arbitrary www links' sounds like the right thing.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is part of the problem of "wtf were the design goals again ?" -- swiss knife syndrome, many things for many people at many different times.
mircea_popescu: at least to my eyes, archiving to date was there to provide a sort of cheaper and lighter deedbotting for webpages.
asciilifeform: the use of 'flash' to output ~text~ articles -- has, afaik, mercifully, died.
mircea_popescu: well i didn't want to archive "artists" flash bs in 2007 either
mircea_popescu: doppler flash is stiull live and well in the "browsere games" niche. heck, adobe recently made new linux flash (after years of stfu)
asciilifeform: the actual problem may be something else.
asciilifeform: precisely, it's why asciilifeform has not touched the problem.
mircea_popescu: im not even sure wtf the design goals would be, which is why we're wallowing
asciilifeform: it's the only way to 'perma-archive EXACTLY what plebes see'. supposing that is a design goal.
mircea_popescu: "why THE FUCK do you want to mess with the fonts" "because we truly have nothing to do with our time" "Do you understand reading speed decreases 3x if the reader has to deal with unfamiliar typefaces ?" "uuga booga"
phf: right, not to mention competing rendering engines ("system wide library doesn't kern glyphs the way our ui designer thinks is appropriate so we do it ourselves!!1")
asciilifeform: 'wanna know the output? run this massive turing-complete barrel of shit'
phf: a sentence like "hello world this is test" might get an invocation like render("world this") followed by render("hello") followed by render("is test"), simply because higher level widget engine decided that's the order of exposure, or hierarchy, or whatever
mircea_popescu: phf provided eg "java runtime fonts" aren't there on top of x11-fonts etc
phf: asciilifeform: there's ~one~ true type library, but it's called at random times to render a small part of the page, so by simply following the invocations you won't be able to reconstruct how the individual results fit into the on-screen
mircea_popescu: sorry i can't hear you over the sound of hillary clinton's pantsuit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not the case anymore afaik.
mircea_popescu: doppler but you know, when people get self-determination and the right to make their own decisions, everything improves.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i have a fairly accurate idea. but last time i opened the reactor cover, at least there was ~1~ copy of truetype shitfest running per box...
doppler: too bad web developers ever received the power to control the rendering of their sites so closely
mircea_popescu: for it gave other men ulcers.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: not familiar / wouldn't know. my exposure to the whole thing was literally just "found relevant library; hop on irc to ask the author; chat for a while; realise he's blind; ask about his experience"
mircea_popescu: phf> state of the art for blind folx is misserable. << about same as in 1997.
asciilifeform: so you catch it there.
asciilifeform: phf: at some point it invokes the truetype engine, neh
phf: asciilifeform: that is not though how rendering works on "modern os". unlike x there's no central authority on glyph rendering. instead you have layers of surfaces that each app manages on its own.
asciilifeform: and fuck the display.
asciilifeform: anything that asks a glyph to be drawn on the raster display -- instead ends up creating a 'haha, glyph G was asked for' record.
phf: basically agent on top of internet explorer/others that, with a specially annotated page (ARIA standard) can make the experience usable
Framedragger: i can ask one such folk ('camlorn on #libaudioverse - has his own 3d audio library, competent at what he does). i recall him explaining the shitshow that was getting cs degree by translating cs paper pdf (horror)
phf: state of the art for blind folx is misserable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the ocr idea is miserable, sadly, because so many glyphs and nonsense.
asciilifeform: i (with handful of other folx) once built exactly such a machine, for executing winblowz virii
asciilifeform: but consequently suffers other problems (it is trivially blocked, and is in fact trivially distinguishable in real time from 'civilian' browser)
asciilifeform: yeah, i suspect that it is built along the lines described earlier
asciilifeform: the js, if it executes (and to archive heathenry, it generally must) must execute ONCE.
Framedragger: phf: ah, but i meant the initial rendering phase - the 'archive this plz' process itself. but thanks for clarifying yeah
asciilifeform: (today it calls load_party_line_from_washinton() and it gets one thing; tomorrow -- another)
asciilifeform: and not merely from the 'js 0day' pov !!
phf: Framedragger: yes, archive.is is a headless webkit. it loads the page with all the resources, it lets the javascript run until the DOM is in some "final" state, it snapshots the DOM. at this point you no longer need javascript to further render page
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's not measurably bad. theoretically it weakens the problem of "spend somone else's inputs".
mircea_popescu: the "insulate from js" is absolutely major.
asciilifeform: which l1 folx can then sign and upload.
phf: Framedragger: you don't have to expose the user to js with archive.is approach
Framedragger: so, if tmsr were to have its own archiver, i don't think archive.is' approach is the way to go, even though it is (arguably, maybe) the most 'reliable' / 'true' (actual js rendering in browser). exposing user to JS defeats half its purpose. imho.
phf: also, these days you have js packing frameworks (like browserify) doing frontend on-demand js loads, which means that ~browser~ doesn't know when page load is complete. you get "lightweight" pages, that don't actually have anything until 8mb of javascript gets its shit together.
asciilifeform: plenty of things just happily serve up a blank page to the archiver.
Framedragger: hmm. i suddenly became concerned with potential failed archival requests from scriba - will check log (iirc not many failures, tho - otherwise would know.)
phf: Framedragger: in case of archive.is there's no "js emulator". it's proper js. usually what happens is that your browser sends various events when the network load is complete, and the dom is rendered
asciilifeform: if you want, whichever, the beobachter, or even 'arse technica', etc -- fuhgetit
phf: i've been browsing the web using dillo/netserf from openbsd box and realized just how broken it become compared to even 5 years ago. only places that you can still render on old browser are the backalleys. uncle al style homepages, tmsr, *chans
asciilifeform: (turn off js, and the text -- vanishes. store the js without executing -- the archive READER will attempt to load it ! from enemy ! )
phf: that's what archive.is technically does. the js problem is "solved" by letting the jser do it's thing and get the ~dom~ into some state. archive.is actually stores the resultant dom rather than original html
asciilifeform: the most egregious heathens ('mainstream media' organs etc) worked quite hard to make their www ~unarchivable, and largely -- succeeded
asciilifeform: i even suspect that the closest thing to a final solution would be the extract a ~bitmap~ from simulated browser, and then embed OCR info !
asciilifeform: the js crapolade problem is also imho serious.
Framedragger: i.e., the interface of the 'is_this_request_coming_from_legit should not be too irc-specific.
Framedragger: but then if things are coded correctly, it shouldn't be hard to swap irc for gossipd later, imho
Framedragger: but i guess you're saying that this particular archiver would rely on irc state (otherwise quite cumbersome to do challenge-response per every url request), which of course is quite bad.
Framedragger: thing is, the irc wrapper on top of gpg challenge-response is *thin* (at least in, say, scriba), and easily removable/changeable.
Framedragger: hey, who wouldn't, brother
asciilifeform: i'd like to see ~less~ reliance on ictronic quasiauthentication, not more.
asciilifeform: there is NO reason to tell him ahead of time.
asciilifeform: 'in channel use' is problematic, because enemy then knows what is being archived.
Framedragger: all the*
Framedragger: this was addressed, no? restrict to in-channel use, and/or l1+l2 or something or other.
asciilifeform: in practice there is an immediate problem , long before it gets owned, even
asciilifeform: that'd be the naive implementation , yes
asciilifeform: i can think of 1 fairly easy method for rendering (there is , iirc, a 'headless chromium' or something like) but the problem is that if you run it on bare iron, it'll be perma-owned.
Framedragger: all doable, but relatively tricky (of the icky kind, i.e., one has to try out some things, and will end up with a set of semi-hacks due to webstack being one large hack.)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: imho it is tricky: you can't simply 'curl' or 'wget', gotta somehow render crapolade if caching heathen sites
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 03:19 lobbes smells a tmsr archive server in the future
ben_vulpes: as soon as one attempts to spend from one of those hashed addresses you're in a race with everyone to get the txn confirmed though
asciilifeform: it is a little bit like saying 'if nsa finds algo that breaks 70% of ecdsa keyspace, the remainder is still ok and 30% of bitcoin addrs will remain safe, bitcoin lives on'
asciilifeform: the traditional notion is 'ecdsa breaks ? folx who have hash-only outputs can simply use them as lamport signatures'
asciilifeform: just not with same end of the dildo
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the traditional explanation is, 'ecdsa break fucks people with known pubkeys, but not those for whom only hash is known'
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 13:04 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-05#1637547 << you certainly need the pubkey of the input address, which was back in the day the rationale behind the whole "don't reuse addresses" thing -- the pubkey of an address which has paid before is known ; the pubkey of an address which has not paid before isn't known.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, a couple of people asked for details and i linked them the logs, if noobs show up do me a favour and up'em.
asciilifeform: in reality, you're either mained/killed , or not.
asciilifeform: the risk taken by soldier is just as imaginary an object.
mircea_popescu: it's for instance one of the best bio-based challenges to say rational economic agent theory.
mircea_popescu: it's (unsurprisingly) a male trait, and a young'un trait, which explains other things too
asciilifeform: not the risk-taking.
asciilifeform: problem is the modern 'everybody's a winner' nonsense.
asciilifeform: that ain't a problem. it's how the poison cherries get tasted, oceans -- explored, embrasures -- plugged
mircea_popescu: this is a fundamental problem in humans, that they'll take overdangerous work.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 06:59 mircea_popescu: they drew the conclusion that optionality is not enough, and work safety must be provided through regulation.
mircea_popescu: actually the first quote in there is vaguely covered in eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633686
mircea_popescu: supposedly this is an unsolvable dilemma, at least for any housewife that's never met the whip.
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is how the middle class ended up poor : "a) we are living above our means and headed for bankruptcy, but b) our means are so disproportionate to our living by now that attempting to live within our means can not be called living!!1"
mircea_popescu: defeating a does not mean i'll now accept b, the whole fucking point is to extirpate the empire of stupid, not to drive in one branch by the measure driving the other out.
mircea_popescu: that thing is of two parts : a) broke your house and b) there's nothing else.
mircea_popescu: it's not like genuine science isn't made by genuine scientists. the pretense to the contrary is the other half of the scum delusion. cannonically "you have no option BUT to build raft out of lcd".
mircea_popescu: eg the one in fundamental physics i quoted above does include.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the most this'll do is make feynman more dubious, not the anti-principle more acceptable.
mircea_popescu: i'd like to hear the return of that.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: feynman was a ~theorist~
diana_coman sees a bit of a younger Diana's shock along the lines of "it can't really be true that 99% of the world I live in is actually rotten to the core" on re-reading Framedragger's replies
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: "of under the"
mircea_popescu: (for they who don't know, bologna is how you say baloney.)
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 14:32 Framedragger: that's a great stance of course, but i do believe that this disqualifies all but, i don't know, to speculate, "30" publications SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-05#1637792 << this for the record is quite false. there's a lot of research published, up until when the "our democracy" imbeciles saw themselves in the position of "running things" and they came up with the current pseudo-academic nonsense. i suppose "bologna system" +- a decade or two.
mircea_popescu: was the lulz of all time, too. ~excel calculation.
ben_vulpes: there is that, doesn't change that sim is unpublished part of system on basis of which claims are being made
mircea_popescu: eh, people get actual climate datasets all the time, end up exposing "data regularization" in the sense of "our definition of average ocean temperature is = largest measured +3, wut, problem??" it gets reported, people who can think read, people who can't think upvote each other on hn, etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 14:43 Framedragger: right. (i think this concludes this discussion. i'm doing some mental gymnastics which are ~pretty shitty (i'm not ready to dismiss all research prima facie which may not link to raw data, and/or may have failed to mention prior art), and i will get rid of them sooner or later, but not yet. thanks for indulging.)
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-05#1637836 << it's basically the only criteria, it's why thinking people throw out the climate simulacra
mircea_popescu: "oh, we said we were a replication -- just, not of the right thing!" , typical americana "this will hold until someone looks at it". from the legal system to everywhere else, country's chock full of that hopeful nonsense.
Framedragger: right. (i think this concludes this discussion. i'm doing some mental gymnastics which are ~pretty shitty (i'm not ready to dismiss all research prima facie which may not link to raw data, and/or may have failed to mention prior art), and i will get rid of them sooner or later, but not yet. thanks for indulging.)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger how the forklet of frauds is constructed exactly is of no interest. yes they keep coming up with mealy-mouthed ways to try and hide the fact that they';re dishonest. fine.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: the entire purpose of that paper is to pour cement over phuctor.
asciilifeform: or the xray-from-scotchtape thing. (minor find, but exemplary of 'ru untermenschen can be safely stolen from')
Framedragger: last note mircea_popescu, paper in question does acknowledge the fact that as regards rsa factorisation, their attempt is a *replication* (unless i misread). but yes, should be beaten for not mentioning phuctor.
mircea_popescu: so it's not like i'm discussing "isolated incident". there's a very well established pattern of dishonest behaviour. not just at princeton, either.
mircea_popescu: of course replicating experiments are done all the time ; the important point being that they didn't identify theirs as such.
mircea_popescu: and since we're discussion princeton : i wasn't going to say anything (which is why i didn't back then), but when some guy found metallic H ( see http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628809 ) princeton idiots came with a replicating experiment and have been trying to replace the original author with themselves ever since. which is just about as shameful.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: unless you are in academia racket yourself, and get paid to participate in the idiot kakubi where 'i'll pretend your crapola has relation to reality, you -- pretend that mine does' -- you can safely ignore such 'research', yes
asciilifeform: or suppose asciilifeform threw his priv p,q to the crowd at his hanging. then henninger goes to another town , where they have nfi, and 'hey folx!! i broke this evildoer's rsa key!!! with new! algo'
Framedragger: to remark in jest, this makes my own work more easier because i can dismiss any cs papers relevant to $work if they deal with data but do not also publish data. "not science, boss!1"
mircea_popescu: there's no stretch.
Framedragger: well the latter, of course, but how you can stretch this example i'm not sure...
mircea_popescu: besides, you operate on the same exact paradigm, except when you deliberately turn off your brain and any sense of decency to participate with the empire of idiots. witness : if i now say "hey guise, i found way to crack asciilifeform 's key, will publish tomorow"
mircea_popescu: the most practical thing is to write junklets about how potent and sexy obama is all day.
mircea_popescu: well so then what do you disagree with ?
Framedragger: i don't disagree there, of course.
Framedragger: look, i agree with this attitude; the ssh banners, etc etc are and will remain publicly available. these are *important* standards to have.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger this great stance happens to have been held for many years, sucyh as for instance when in 2010 diana_coman didn't sleep a weekend to liberate the ro min of edu's data.
Framedragger: that's a great stance of course, but i do believe that this disqualifies all but, i don't know, to speculate, "30" publications SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME
mircea_popescu: all publications which do not publish the data are newspaper articles.
diana_coman: Framedragger, yes, they are
Framedragger: asciilifeform: how little of the data is public is indeed *shameful*, and in that regard, phuctor should be lauded for making all data available.
mircea_popescu: and please no hn posts of dorks patting each other on back over "meetings"
mircea_popescu: where's the pre-phuctor phuctor ? can i has links ? something ?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: are you familiar with what henninger et al claim to have done vs what they actually made public ?
Framedragger: diana_coman: you are forgetting the detail where phuctor wasn't the first to do what it did.
diana_coman: Framedragger, the issue is that it is RELEVANT
mircea_popescu: in what sense first (actually) biggest (actually) project to factor rsa is "not that important" ? who did something more important in the interval and what was it ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: not emotional; in fact i will go further and claim that *your* evaluation stems from a bit of butthurt (which is human, of course.)
diana_coman: very little bullshit allowed to stand quickly expands until there is (nor can there be) anything else than bullshit
mircea_popescu: and yes people take umbrage with very little bullshit, which is not unreasonable, because a) very little bullshit is never alone (we know this, because unlike the dicklets involved, we HAvE EXPERIENCE in the fucking field) and b) it doesn't take much to throw everything off, bullshit compounds while truth decays.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i am quite content with their bibliography section. they did not include phuctor (but included the other studies before and after phuctor), and that is a failure on their part. they can be informed and will even perhaps address this point. that does not fail *the whole paper* in my books, however.
asciilifeform: if you don't maintain the chain.
asciilifeform: thing very quickly degenerates into gaggle of charlatans each of whom goes to look for who will believe him that 'i! i! invented the integral calculus!!!'
diana_coman: Framedragger, the underlying issue from my point of view is that intellectual dishonesty essentially bars one from claiming to do research; they might be doing advertising, writing, experiments or anything else, but not research since they are not after finding things out as they are, but about finding something to eat or whatever
mircea_popescu: failing to maintain the knowledge blockchain - is.
mircea_popescu: this chaining of knowledge, for your info, is the CORE of academia.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i see what you mean. do you think this "it then necessarily follows" is truly "necessarily"? what do others think? i do see what you mean, tho.