BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and then 4th stage is the 'gentrifying' sections of detroit, that are being rebuilt into masses of cardboard condos that sell for $1M. << St Louis appears to want to go from 3 to 4, but uncertain if three can really be moved past
Framedragger: and how the elves with gandalf conspired to rewrite story ("written by the victors" and all that), and ring was actually a side plot to distract people
Framedragger: you may be interested in "the last rinbearer" by a russian geologist (iirc), tells ring tale from perspective of mordor on a brink of industrial revolution
trinque: I'm still eagerly awaiting a description of these roving gangs of car burners.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> or is it the invaders that are actually torching cars in these towns << Yes, so "not crime"(TM)(R) because "honored guests
erlehmann: e.g. i rarely encounter black people when going to the supermarket
erlehmann: fact of the matter is i have not enough reference points
BingoBoingo: <Framedragger> plenty of folks quite content living their frugal lives (in e.g. leipzig, from what i hear, to be particular), i guess #t doesn't think much of them, i happen to have friends, what do. if bitch at 5% rent increase, sure, not much sympathy from me << Better to be frugal and not poor
trinque: fact of the matter is that he is not permitted to say.
asciilifeform: ( are they 'a race' ..? lol )
asciilifeform: you probably would not want bottom 10% of arkansas moving in , either.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: i enjoy a number of things, from turkish military marches to turkish sweets. but it is different q from 'do i want the bottom economic 10% of turkey moving in next door'
erlehmann: asciilifeform i enjoy turkish and kurdish food, but otherwise, no idea.
asciilifeform: so consider plox answering the q as stated
erlehmann: asciilifeform i spent years of my youth in a remote boarding school inside an old monastery building. not many turks or africans there.
Framedragger: erlehmann: "blatant racism" is an empty label here, and won't carry the same "prescriptive power" as elsewhere. that said, maybe you meant "heuristic generalisations are dangerous" (my (overcharitable) interpretation)
asciilifeform: ... and how about the african 'syrians' ?
asciilifeform: erlehmann: would you describe germany+turks as more habitable, enjoyable, interesting place than the germany sans turks you grew up in ?
erlehmann: well, i think when i arrive people often tend to think i want to convince them of something. i often do not want and do not care as much as other think i do.
trinque: I think when I arrived I thought the place was a bunch of red-pillers
trinque: maybe they still will get worked out
trinque: who the hell is this guy, even
erlehmann: i think it is fairly plausible that the description of “orcs” can be read as some kind of blatant racism – “black-skinned”, “brutish”, “slant-eyed” …
asciilifeform: and then 4th stage is the 'gentrifying' sections of detroit, that are being rebuilt into masses of cardboard condos that sell for $1M.
asciilifeform: i have nfi what is the 3rd stage. but i suspect that it looks like detroit -- which in turn, looked like berlin in '45
asciilifeform: the second stage of this cancer is when market begins to segment SOLELY based on orc proximity -- i.e. your house costs moar, or less, ~strictly based on how much orc you are willing to tolerate in everyday life, and not, say, based on size, or whether it is made from brick or shitboard
asciilifeform: rpriced flat but to put some distance b/w you and Them.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: there is an american-'patented' style of rent-seeking scam that is now being 'enjoyed' in europe, incl., as i understand, in your berlin. which goes like this : 1) import a horde of raping, pillaging orcs from some fuckhole 2) prohibit 'discrimination' against'em. now the only permitted means of excluding them from being your neighbours is... price. 3) landlords rake in the dough, because now you gotta pay not only for ove
erlehmann: compare, e.g. amount of vegetation inside city with other german cities. berlin has much more.
erlehmann: trinque it is about the specific history of berlin.
erlehmann: fefe also made a podcast in 2017 with the same guy (andrej holm) https://alternativlos.org/40/
trinque: you think the same stupid arguments aren't raised every time someone improves a neighborhood anywhere else?
trinque: "I chose this" is I suppose one way to cope with the dick buried in your ass.
trinque: erlehmann: please bridge the gap for me between "country that is welcoming a flood of foreign invaders" and "omg haet tourists, I'll torch your car"
lobbes: ben_vulpes: if the "community" can't soak people who want to come there and spend money adequately to make tourism +ev for the hosts incl. cities, how can they even justify continuing to live << I grew up on The Cod in Massachusetts; "working class" locals were always bitching about how much they hated tourists, but that tourism $$$ is the ~only~ thing sustaining that particular sandbar. Fishing is dead, and retail and landscaping indus
erlehmann: the trivial solution is piss disc
ben_vulpes: eh i don't see how "stop bitching about problems you can trivially solve without involving the state eg rent control, try moving to a neighborhood as shitty as this one was two decades ago when you crept in" is quite "slice lengthwise"
asciilifeform: which is a-ok thing to say. but why not cut straight, 'to the chase.'
asciilifeform: and then it means 'slice lengthwise, untermensch!!'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-22#1673487 << i find it lulzy that folx will happily say this to someone to whom they would ~not~ necessarily say 'kill yerself nao, slice lengthwise' . but at the same time the phrases have EQUIVALENT meaning, because at some point you are already as rich as you possibly know how to become.
erlehmann: i'd also avoid berlin hacker gatherings
erlehmann: on the other side of the street the drink will cost half as much, but what do you know, tourist!
erlehmann: and they'll smile and take all your money
erlehmann: a suitcase on wheels marks a person like a shitstain on their pants
erlehmann: if, on the other hand, you are looking to experience tourist hate, take an airbnb in mitte, in the vincinity of st. oberholz. take a wheelie case and new apple devices with you.
erlehmann: as i said: as a tourist, i probably would not choose airbnb in berlin. reason is that the strategy is working. less stressful to book hotel room or hostel.
Framedragger: plenty of folks quite content living their frugal lives (in e.g. leipzig, from what i hear, to be particular), i guess #t doesn't think much of them, i happen to have friends, what do. if bitch at 5% rent increase, sure, not much sympathy from me
trinque: no. I mean if they were free of the terribru rent oppression what human flourishing would sprout in their place?
Framedragger: you mean, what's their recourse / what leverage they have? yes, not much leverage at all, sucks to be them
ben_vulpes: if the "community" can't soak people who want to come there and spend money adequately to make tourism +ev for the hosts incl. cities, how can they even justify continuing to live
ben_vulpes: who gives a flying fuck about "pushing up rents" because some people rent in ways not appealing to the local statal orgs
jurov: O.o my first two airbnb experiences were fine, but that was in greece, they don't mind noise
Framedragger: any personal experiences there? i've heard of "frozen piss" bomb concept, yeah
erlehmann: also, did you know that frozen piss can be shoved under a door and seep into the carpet?
erlehmann: by passion, i mean: some door locks are faulty and seem to spontaneously fail in the middle of the night, when you come back to the ap.
Framedragger: (or well, maybe i'm misusing the term)
erlehmann: b) many airbnb guests behave in such an obnoxious way that entirely unpolitical people living in the same house hate them with a passion.
erlehmann: furthermore, two observations, one on a systemic, one on an individual level: a) airbnb drives up rents, because it is much more profitable to (illegally) rent on airbnb than to (legally) rent to someone long-term. transients always spend more money then residents.
Framedragger: (there may indeed be no harm, tho)
Framedragger: erlehmann: girl says "wtf, plz to elaborate" :D is that due to high degree of scams, or just the high possibility of misunderstandings? (only time i used airbnb was in morocco, but that was planned well in advance, and kinda-vetted place)
erlehmann: i have a single, very important berlin tourism tip. avoid airbnb (and similar things) to the strongest extent possible. there are only a few faster ways to make enemies, like putting on a police uniform and visiting rigaer straße alone in the middle of the night.
Framedragger: erlehmann: i've been to c-base a coupla times, curious if there are any hackerspaces which are less about showing off and more about actual DIY projects etc (not sure if can meaningfully interact in the span of only a week tho, i guess)
Framedragger: funny thing is i'm not really into raves. at the same time i have a pile of high quality mdma that i now need to dispose of, because changing country. so who knows
Framedragger: erlehmann: airbnb apartment, 3-4 people, possibly neukoln or thereabouts, not sure yet
trinque: but then you're on teh way to an ebuild anyway.
Framedragger: erlehmann: question #3 -- any recommendations for what to do in berlin in july? i'll be there with a few friends from 5 july (may travel to leipzig), random recommendations welcome (we'll visit the nsa tower/hill, etc)
Framedragger: i see map generators, but that's something else, i assume the subgame thing is the way towards the "generalized"/"arbitrary"
Framedragger: erlehmann: i like my voxels, looks nice... generalized CA, as in, you can run arbitrary programs in the space (or somesuch)?
mod6: i misspell a lot of things too. so there' that.
mod6: <+erlehmann> mod6 did you mean "word" or "weird"? << the former.
erlehmann: where do you need them?
erlehmann: it's not? most i3 users have no use for draggable windows. the maemo wm (i forgot its name) also has none.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> if answer to either 1, 2, or both, is 'yes' -- asciilifeform won't use. << wait... i thought you were big on a workstation that you could use... but this doesn't include a mouse?
erlehmann: well, they are optional. they are used because i3 can not only tile windows, but also tab them. and float them, if you *really* want to.
asciilifeform: if answer to either 1, 2, or both, is 'yes' -- asciilifeform won't use.
asciilifeform: 2) does it know about mice, and take input from the mouse ?
asciilifeform: 1) does it draw ANYTHING on the screen when it is running ?
erlehmann: one guy even wrote his own wm, then switched to i3
erlehmann: everyone using tiling window management in my vincinity seems to end up there
ben_vulpes: but yes, .xinitrc does consist of `exec emacs` at the moment
asciilifeform: sounds like you have no possible need for an x wm on this box, then, ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: you just can't resize or move the 1 window
ben_vulpes: 'tis the hope
asciilifeform: just have the 1 emacs frame.
asciilifeform: then possibly you don't need a wm at all
ben_vulpes: exwm puts the x window into an emacs buffer, so can eg C-x b opera
shinohai: Stay tuned to find out why the ETH genesis block funds have moved. Absolute pin-drop silence on that one.
asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2017/06/the-poofening-ether-huffers-suffer-price-flash-crash-as-opposed-to-more-frequently-covered-service-crash/#comment-102896
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 16:30 phf: building wot for all comers will suffer the same fate as pgp. since nobody's using it, it turns into an arms race of easy to use, or "innovation" also known as masturbation over technical minutiae. i sort of realized this when i tried applying tmsr solutions to my cypherpunk friends: "no we don't need to research the difference between signal and telegram, just encrypt it to my gpg key and post it on dpaste or whatever." eliminated all the technical di
Framedragger: shinohai: where is the flash crash? https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethereum/#charts or were you talking about ETHC?
mircea_popescu: and to think we beliebed them!
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> but ALL THAT VALUE! << Turns out the shoes and chain were both fake
a111: Logged on 2017-06-20 17:22 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672507 << mircea_popescu: consider dropping another 50MTonne кузькина мать -- looked, at least to naked eye, to have miraculous educational effect last time around
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/06/the-poofening-ether-huffers-suffer-price-flash-crash-as-opposed-to-more-frequently-covered-service-crash/ << Qntra - The Poofening: Ether Huffers Suffer Price Flash Crash (As Opposed To More Frequently Covered Service Crash)
ben_vulpes: first full day at the helm of gentoo workstation while rough, was a marked improvement over the previous wheelbarrow's spiky handles. many thanks to asciilifeform and trinque.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: lol mod6 caught it same time I did, was busy writing up the lulz and didn't see your msg.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
trinque: entirely worthwhile, for when one of us is next going through the Ada march.
mod6: guess that clears that up. my apologies to TMSR~ for the spam.
mod6: L=8 then
mod6: K=4,J=3 when there are 8 words in FZ.
asciilifeform: 2 cuts into 1 and 1; 1 is the basecase
asciilifeform: 4 cuts the obvious way
asciilifeform: work out the arithmetic
asciilifeform: likewise the ability to refer to Foo'First and Foo'Last -- arrays know their size; and taking a slice from a nonexistent portion behaves SANELY (i.e. is a slice of size 0, and it is legal to assign another array to it, this is a null op)
asciilifeform: the 'index arrays from whatever' thing in ada is genius, it abolished the megatonnes of increments and decrements that litter c proggies and inevitably lead to 'fencepost' eggog
asciilifeform: ergo foo.Z(foo.Z'First .. 4) gives you the lower 4 words, for instance
asciilifeform: so you can see that the words are indexed from 1
asciilifeform: mod6: note, Z : Words(1 .. WLength) := (others => 0);
mod6: well, not assigning, just not assigning the 4th word in X1.Z; where 4th == X1.Z[3]
mod6: which, i guess you would be assigning a null word then, also. not sure if that was intended.
mod6: X1.Z(X1.Z'First .. J) := X.Z(K + 1 .. X.Z'Last); << Further, it seems that here, we'd be setting (K + 1) .. X.Z'Last ; so, 5 .. 7. And assigning that to X1.Z(0 .. 3).
mod6: A'First denotes the lower bound of the first index range; its type is the corresponding index type." << http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/12rm/html/RM-3-6-2.html#I1941
mod6: asciilifeform: anyway, im just trying to figure out if this splits the number in a balanced manner or we're off by one.
ben_vulpes: holy doodle, my tunnel under steve's wall just broke the surface!
mod6: X0.Z(X0.Z'First .. K) := X.Z(X.Z'First .. K); << X0 will be assigned to X.Z[0] -> X.Z[4] ? or is the 'X.Z'First .. K' part exclusive? where it'll only do X.Z[0]->[3] ?
asciilifeform: ... just read it, probably will make moar sense than my explaining it ( and if this is not so, then it is not written correctly )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-21 17:08 asciilifeform: also gotta understand what the F in 'ffa' means. it means that N**2 takes exactly same time as N**N
asciilifeform: likewise, whole thing is 100% cpu arch AND endianity (!) independent, having any asm in the mix would ruin this.
asciilifeform: it defeats entire point of the entire thing.
mod6: this is outside the spec, but just as an experiment, what kinda timings do we get if you were to do inline asm for the W_Mul & Karatsuba procedures? is this worth doing?
BingoBoingo: Kubota has a rather popular 3-cylinder diesel ~25-ish horsepower but lots of torque for the small holder who wants to deep rip their plot
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6, phf , et al -- see if you grasp how the thing worx. << will continue to try to grok this thing.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lulzy montana "the referendum" on ourdemocracy.
asciilifeform: mod6, phf , et al -- see if you grasp how the thing worx.
asciilifeform: so there is no handwave away, 'average case will be better'. there IS no average case distinct from the others here.
asciilifeform: there are NO best-cases, or worst-cases.
asciilifeform: also gotta understand what the F in 'ffa' means. it means that N**2 takes exactly same time as N**N
asciilifeform: doing FIVE ( yes, it's five ) machine muls, in there, and 5 machine adds ( instead of motherfucking ZERO ) JUST TO GET THE UPPER WORD of word*word mul, is not.
mod6: you mean, storing the halfwords isn't going anywhere?
asciilifeform: the former is also afaik going nowhere.
asciilifeform: main thing nuking the speed is the W_Mul thing and the fact that we copy EVERY split. the latter is not avoidable given as we ban pointers
asciilifeform: mod6: i mentioned all of the ones i could think of -- larger base case ( trivially necessary ), and parallelized recursing ( unacceptable in the msdos port, or on single-cored machines of whatever type, however )
mod6: so, there might be some optimization to be done (perhaps?) once we all grok the implementation.
asciilifeform: in that i still do not know if the problem can even be solved satisfactorily.
mod6: yeah. no sewage in the champagne
asciilifeform: and yes, one can inline asm it. however the EXPLICIT spec was : NO ASM!!!!!
asciilifeform: the INFURIATING thing is that, just as with the addition/subtraction carry bit (last month's thread), the compiler DOES NOT give us portable access to the upper word of MUL reg,reg
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: if you want to test, keep in mind that you gotta Foo : FZ(Bits) ; now, rather than Foo : FZ; << good to note. thanks
asciilifeform: mod6: interestingly, there is veeeeery little improvement so far, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-23#1660607 turns into 17.7 sec !!
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: pajama boy :: An insufferable Man-Child. About as threatening as Michael Cera and so nerdy he could guest-host on an unwatched MSNBC show. The purpose of Pajama Boy is not to get people to buy health insurance, but to get a rise out of more powerful personas. [ex:] Pajama Boy is an insufferable Man-Child probably reading The Bell Jar and looking forward to a hearty Christmas meal of stuffed tofurkey. If (2 more messages)
asciilifeform: likewise 'bitness' of an FZ refers solely to the number of bits available in it, and does NOT and never will depend on their ~contents~ ( unlike non-fixed bignumatrons )
asciilifeform: ( you physically cannot have karatsuba or anything of the kind if you cannot make FZs of several sizes. however the F remains, it is still impermissible to involve FZs of variant bitnesses in any arithmetical operation when invoking . )
asciilifeform: in all other respects, same semantics as previously.
asciilifeform: mod6: if you want to test, keep in mind that you gotta Foo : FZ(Bits) ; now, rather than Foo : FZ;
asciilifeform: also it is almost certainly possible to have less copying in there.
asciilifeform: the 'egyptological' mul has been removed, it is not useful
asciilifeform: >>>>> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Zy27g/?raw=true <<<<< ( CAUTION, mod6 , phf , et al ! the invocation syntax has changed !! )
asciilifeform: and, unrelatedly, karatsuba parallelizes (into 3 forks) without any substantial effort, so can also speed up whatever the bare bone speed ends up being, 3x
asciilifeform: because at present the base case of the recursion is L=1 , and probably ought to be 4, or even 8 machinewords;
a111: Logged on 2017-05-19 17:22 asciilifeform: in other news, a 4096-bit A**B takes approx 14 seconds (3GHz) .
a111: Logged on 2017-06-18 23:30 asciilifeform: and realized, while doing this, that in fact you don't need 2k+2 bits for the karatsuba intermediates, you can do instead of (x0+x1)*(y0+y1) , (x0-x1)*(y0-y1), and then you don't need to propagate carries, but only take absolutevalue and xor the borrows to see if gotta invert the resulting term
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! preliminary result of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-18#1672101 is that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-19#1659220 nao takes <3 sec. which can still be improved further,
mircea_popescu: it's even better that nobody (tm) is even bothered by this, exactly like they weren't in teh self-same soviet union.
mircea_popescu: phf incidentally, it's a great thing the free world (tm) defeated the soviet union where people couldn't be published for writing things outside of the yemu sam's letters.
BingoBoingo: Of course it must have. I thought that's what the 1980's in "activism" was about. Vampire disease
mircea_popescu: did it still make them gay ?
phf: there was a young adult novel about vampires, and i can't remember the title or the author, but it was written by a virologist, had all kinds of trivia about this sort of viral parasites (obviously vampirism was explored from that angle too)
mircea_popescu: however, rabies is a much better example : the virus specifically accumulates in the salivary glands, for the ~purpose~ of being transmitted through bites, and shuts down the deglutition behaviour.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, people get all excited re the fungi that grow out of ant's heads and change the ant's behaviour etc.
mircea_popescu: though the last word from harvard trained Psychologists (!!!) is psychopath, i hear.
mircea_popescu: kinda how folk-whatever goes. "he had the devil in him" ie liked to touch girls between the legs and drank.
phf: there's though a comedic dimension to the word, by 19th century you had a stereotype of bumbling deacon, the kind of person who would blame "daemons" on personal insignificant follies
mircea_popescu: (both because today's culture is mostly interhuman masturbation and because it has mostly lost the ability to reflect reality.)
mircea_popescu: yeah. at the time and in those parts, wolves were a much more serious problem, and correspondingly a much larger part of culture than seen today
mircea_popescu: of course, they don't really have rabies in galilea, but wut-eevars!
mircea_popescu: afaik the slavic notion of the devil is muchly indebted to a) the observation of lyssaviri in action and b) the passage about jesus and the herd of pigs. so they mostly understood demons as rabies agents.
phf: goes back to slavic mythology, but i don't know what bes is there. in old slavonic bibles it was used to translate the word "demon"
asciilifeform: more like the kind you exorcise
mircea_popescu: kinda the whole story of socialism, as it happens. what the pantsuits are doing is === voluntary apnea, and what happens to them is always "well, you ran out of money, so back to capitalism whore!"
mircea_popescu: "voluntary apnea works out until the brain shuts down from lack of oxygen and the stem restarts breathing reflexively" ?
phf: which doesn't have a good direct translation. "they will soon stop throwing a tantrum" but the verb is from bes, i.e. old russian word for demon, so kind of like "they will run out of the idiotic and chaotic energy, and will eventually calm down"
mircea_popescu: kinda why buying the ourdemocracy pantsuit lolboat is such a ridiculous deal. the only thing you know for sure about it is that, "wait a few years, they won't like it anymore".
mircea_popescu: and so the poor kid has allergy to clothes and the black kid to learnin and the injun to sitting still.
mircea_popescu: the "uncles" ie uppity aunts don't like it anymore these days, though. too much nigger in it, not to mention a very strong vein of "things are as they are not only because that's how they are but also because that's how tyhey should be".
phf: oh that i don't know, i was 10, so i intentionally avoided learning what the point was, i just had an uneasy sense that it was there
mircea_popescu: phf really ? i utterly missed that out. i think to this day. what was the point ?
mircea_popescu: to this day my idea of "who can be bothered to read "other americas" or "trainspotting" or you know, watch coffy fightin' crime for the black "homeland" is, 11 yo boy.
phf: i liked twain, but he was also a touch wholesome. like an older uncle, telling you a yarn, that has a Point to it that you're expected to notice, because the uncle grins every time the point comes up
mircea_popescu: then i discovered romania actually had a niche equivalent of the us pulp, spinrad & all, so i moved on to that.
mircea_popescu: i preferred twain, but the problem is twain wrote enough for a coupla weeks, verne for a coupla months. every day as a 10yo i'd come home from school, stop at library, buy another jv book an' go read it.
mircea_popescu rather suspects that actually star trek figures principally as the G in that MAGA. it really was the best of times, that worst of times, for all those involved.
mircea_popescu: lt commander pass the popcorn or what was it.
mircea_popescu: afaik it was all about that big screen and the various people gathered around in that livingroom to watch it.
mircea_popescu: they ever fucked ?
mircea_popescu: phf except the soviet writer jules verne later wrote star trek, "how great would it be to sit on your couch watching tv on which they show you some dorks sitting on couch watching tv"
phf: asciilifeform grew up on russian romantic literature (like the soviet writer jules verne), yearns to live on Nautilus
mircea_popescu: rules to fucking live by, you know, "by the time you feel like you wanna live in a submarine, it's time to gtfo and find a better place."
mod6: i dunno, if you feel like you wanna live in a submarine, then perhaps its time to gtfo and find a better place.
mod6: ah, fair point. but i mean, whatever, probably wasn't daily sunning either.
asciilifeform: ( ww2 sub folx -- certainly did, witness the group photos )
mircea_popescu: i dunno man, there's many kinds of people and i dun expect to understand all, but going by observation to date the only reason people even put up (for brief intervals) with the many and significant inconveniences of navigation is access to the sun and the wind and so on.
asciilifeform: https://archive.hnsa.org/ships/img/kaiten.jpg << probably the sub mircea_popescu was thinking of !111
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno you'll be able to find anyone willing to indulge, so in theory not but in practice likely.
mircea_popescu: they give those out for free, you know, even in your jurisdiction.
mircea_popescu: mostly hits people like fishing boat crews, which is why they never take more than X% noobs no matter what.
mircea_popescu: sort of migraine-like, seen in the 6th to 12th week.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's the 'late' ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mind that there's two sea sicknesses, also, early and late. though the late is rare.
mircea_popescu: nudity is a start, but it's just... people have a bubble, it depends on many things and i suppose is of various types. if you pack them tighter than their bubble is they'll get increasingly pissier.
asciilifeform: getting to where you can buy outside of the reservation is also not phree
mircea_popescu: which is why i said don't buy it in the us, cuz yes those people are SO into papers and empty signifiying by now that it's a legitimate problem.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my observation was the the 'warranty' of new item is a very, very expensive thing
mircea_popescu: "you marry a girl, it loses 10k whoring value right there" is rank nonsense.
mircea_popescu: there's many values. value as a negotiable is different from value as a usable.
mod6: i don't seem to have problems with that either.... at least, i have't had it yet.
mircea_popescu: anyway, a word re the "new chump tax drives off the lot loses 10k value" thing : it loses 10k of RESALE value. it does not lose 10k of value, ie, your new car still won't need new shocks just because you drove it off lot.
mod6: whats the longest boat trip you've ever taken?
asciilifeform treats btc as something like the fabled 'write-only memory'
mircea_popescu: yes, from a pass/fail perspective brake pad is either broken or isn't. but natura not facit saltus, it gets there through a continuous process. there's no discrete processes above atomic scale.
BingoBoingo: If that's the case buy a motorcycle
asciilifeform: but if asciilifeform ever ~were~ to buy boat, or plane, it ~would~ be a used one, and will pay for it not only in reichsmarks but millimorts, because new is simply not on the table -- a new, e.g., sailboat thing, may as well be a starship
mircea_popescu: the problem with brake pads is that under the heat and shear stress they microcrystallize. this makes them much less useless for their intended purpose, which is abrasion, and for which they'd better stay amorphous. the problem with fiberglass is that under mechanical stress they separate, which then creates fissures and which then is the end.
BingoBoingo: The hull is a friction surface
asciilifeform: at any rate, and ought to satisfy mircea_popescu , i dun buy machines i have nfi how to drive, i did not buy airplane either.
mircea_popescu: this is not entirely true. it's either new or ground.
asciilifeform: per my current (nonexpert) conception, it's a fiberglass shell, that is either broken or whole
mircea_popescu: we already had this thread last week, but you got it like duck gets wet. the boat hull IS a moving part, and it is moving in such a way to make plastic ~useless.
mircea_popescu: and, to a much larger degree in the car than in the fan. and to a larger still in the boat than in the car.
asciilifeform: would mircea_popescu describe the chassis of boat as 'moving part' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my toothbrush ain't 2ndhand either!11
asciilifeform: tru!! if i needed 10,000,001 -- would be stuck paying the chumptax
mircea_popescu: there's ~no mechanical moving parts in computer, and guess what -- the few that are, you DO buy new.
asciilifeform: was thinking of transformers and other smaller items. ~100% of my comps is made of 2ndhand parts, for instance.
mircea_popescu: so then wtf are you talking about.
asciilifeform: but i've had the same (inherited) auto for eons.