trinque: on the contrary, politely offed himself while leaving a "manifesto" written in pantsuit, trying to turn the discrimination term on them and other gargle.
ben_vulpes: you figure he expected to survive the publication?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-07 04:30 mircea_popescu: but see, that's not at all the point. for one thing : all scholarship is nonsense. for the other, soviet school si entirely propaganda, which is to say "prepare organ donors for a certain way of life". the fucking point of the fixed form 3rd/4th grade composition is to allow the submarginal intellects making up the bulk of the population to tattoo their brains into a form that'll then allow them to survive, as traffic agents
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-07#1694875 << guy's a perfect specimen of the brain tattooed, thinks somebody in there is going to hear his "omg am not included"
ben_vulpes: tee so the thought police cracked down on the dood behind the (entirely wackily formatted) http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320 : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: !~later tell cazalla From what I hear still good. As always check the label/model number in case they start experimenting with Chinesium.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform like in any field, you piece together the bit reports of people in the know, pondered by their context. doesn't take an expert analyst to figure out briots were convenient cover for underground resettlement. << Lafond says this as well plus moving product into town
cazalla: how are things in your part of the world? left argentina?
cazalla: BingoBoingo, any idea if estwing is still a good american tool brand or are they rubbish and just trade off the name now?
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-07#1695087 << Apparently the two things they are bickering over are Bitcoin, and 2mb Forkcoin but they REFUSE to disambiguate!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: remember the genderfucked alicesomethingorother who 'i'ma meal-squares-mostly-eating-person' ? that's my mental image of sv
mircea_popescu: the problem with this simile is that i am unsure which is mapped on the cake and which on the wasps.
mircea_popescu: they're by and large folks who'd have signed up for mp slavery except no mp offered.
asciilifeform: i find it fascinating, the psychology of folx who voluntarily sign up for svtron.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, they could hire the girl also, and for the 450k you can get a 2 bedroom and rent one. this'll work well as you'll never see each other again
asciilifeform: while we're on subj, i get these hilarious invitations to sv conglomerates, ~every day
asciilifeform: (considerably more, he dun ahve to give it up immediately to thej000z etc )
mircea_popescu: then you become A FUCKING WELDER.
mircea_popescu: and carrying grannies purses for them doesn't ?
mircea_popescu: consider the earlier discussion re power and income.
asciilifeform: i was working under the possibly mistaken assumption that not all pretty criminals are subhuman ('for convenience, i'ma shit right here where i stand')
mircea_popescu: the sort of idiot who'd go into petty crime does so FOR CONVENIENCE. if he was willing to follow check lists he'd go to sv and be a fucking pm.
mircea_popescu: do you even grasp the hassle this is turniung into ?
mircea_popescu: preferably, the same day you go robbing.
mircea_popescu: not a matter of price, a matter of all the strings. gotta keep it maintained, tank full, etc. you realise 50% of all arguments among car using negros is "who left the tank empty" ?
asciilifeform: one of the biggest puzzlers re marauding monkeyfolk to asciilifeform , is the reluctance of robbers to use the auto. almost like it were 1910 again, or sumthing. 90% rob in walking distance of own dwelling. mind-boggling
mircea_popescu: this view happens to be closer to reality, amusingly enough, than the hallucinations of power and import of the various borderline sleeves "interning" for her.
mircea_popescu: to them, feinstein is nothing more than any other old bitty. she dun fuck, she dun twerk, she's as interesting as a printed picture of a bone is to a dog.
mircea_popescu: that's the point of a savannah.
mircea_popescu: migration is slower than in their african home, but still, tectonic like underlyin phenomenon.
mircea_popescu: generally, the black-powered underground in the us is very much migratory, it wants to move towards the places with teenage fuckbunnies, and away from the dead zones.
mircea_popescu: well yes, they expanded territory like 30%, losing some areas, gaining others, look at teh map neh ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform like in any field, you piece together the bit reports of people in the know, pondered by their context. doesn't take an expert analyst to figure out briots were convenient cover for underground resettlement.
mircea_popescu: they were busy with more useful targets.
asciilifeform: plox to 1) the seekrit tru picture 2) how mircea_popescu found it ?
mircea_popescu: let's just say that shooting feinstein would have done ~0 as far as the drug market is concerned, so she escaped.
mircea_popescu: your notion of the baltimore riots is thoroughly fictitious.
asciilifeform: still rioters, rather than soldiers : no command structure.
asciilifeform: ( no more than the folx who nailed ceaucescu were )
mircea_popescu: technically, rioters can't shoot anybody, because by definition they donb't have guns.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they weren't rioters.
asciilifeform: process re 'why not feinstein's house' was publicly visible during bmore riot -- soldiers appeared, but did not shoot rioters, merely redirected them to approved pillage-an'-burn ground
mircea_popescu: anyway. there was trhat whole puerto rican nationalism slaugther, they got like a half dozen in the 50s iirc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the person doing the shooting from the crowd will always be you know, the person doing the shooting. if your idea is "show me senators shot by helicopter moms" you're going to turn out empty.
asciilifeform: though mircea_popescu is quite obviously right re the 12/hr guard having 0 to do with why monkeys dun burn feinstein's mansion
asciilifeform: ( i.e. lone d00d, with at least 2-3 day plan horizon; rather than crowd of monkeys )
mircea_popescu: anyway. giffords got shot in the head 2011, scalise was shot in the hip 2017. that's two for the past decade ; first two since 73.
asciilifeform: postalists have nailed politicians in the past. more or less the only scoreholders in usa to date.
asciilifeform: the one in nyc ?
mircea_popescu: you keep saying this as fact, then i link you to dead feinsteins, then you forget about it for a week or two, then back to it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform betcha is exactly the same dude with rolled up newspaper in retail bank.
mircea_popescu: anyway, "a guard" pish. that's where you take the riots, if you're serious about rioting. brick pelt pelosi, feinstein and friends.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> 'oops, we forgot to stack the deck. can haz backsies?' << lol, exactly
asciilifeform: perfect uniformity, d00dz show up to cut the grass on same day for whole street, etc
mircea_popescu: "oh mr p, wouldn't you love to PAY so some inept schmuck can waste your time with a barrier on the road and everything ?" "totally!"
mircea_popescu: they're crazy about that dumb shit throughout latin america also, "condominios". who the fuck would want to live in them is unexplaiend, but they'\re everywhere.
asciilifeform: 'oops, we forgot to stack the deck. can haz backsies?'
asciilifeform: '...the homeowners association has sued the couple and the city, seeking to block Cheng and Lam from selling the street to anyone while the city appeal is pending — a move residents fear could complicate their efforts to reclaim the land.'
asciilifeform: 'Sen. Dianne Feinstein and her financier husband, Richard Blum; House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi; and the late Mayor Joseph Alioto. A guard is stationed round the clock...' , and
asciilifeform: their own private street.'
asciilifeform: in other lollers, http://archive.is/nsrpU >> 'Tina Lam and Michael Cheng snatched up Presidio Terrace — the block-long, private oval street lined by 35 megamillion-dollar mansions — for $90,000 and change in a city-run auction stemming from an unpaid tax bill. They outlasted several other bidders. Now they’re looking to cash in — maybe by charging the residents of those mansions to park on
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 22:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694636 << what are they gonna run out of ? cement ?
mod6: that whole scam reminds me very much of the alt craze of '13
ben_vulpes: to make a car the rumor mill suggests isn't particularly profitable
ben_vulpes: in other bezzles, musk raising 1.3b in 'high yield' bonds
asciilifeform: what, i wonder , is the thought process ? 'i open crates with this, ergo it is fighting knife also' ?
asciilifeform: pretty lulzy, btw, trilema, with the 'car key as sword'
a111: Logged on 2014-12-16 03:04 gribble: The burglar with the lemon juice disguise « Mind Hacks: <http://mindhacks.com/2010/02/11/the-burglar-with-the-lemon-juice-disguise/>; Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect>; DOT Uses Beet Juice to Battle Icy Roads | NBC 10 Philadelphia: <http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/traffic/transit/Beet-Juice- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not so. below a certain level (self-reflection), planned and spontaneous project to the same point.
asciilifeform: whether imbecile or genius is orthogonal to planned vs spontaneous
mircea_popescu: like "i used the juice" bank robbery, planned, sure.
asciilifeform: the 'losing' is a volitional, planned act, like bank robbery.
mircea_popescu: wtf is deliberate even mean. they don't deliberate.
asciilifeform: because 'you can't get tenure by saying let's-use-rsa' and you won't get $trillion if you ~do~ dig up the old blueprint
mircea_popescu: father with inept son watching keys locked inside -- "did you do it deliberately ?!?!" "uhhh i dunno...."
mircea_popescu: the designs are lost.
asciilifeform: whether monkey could 'decide to show up for work' -- i do not know
mircea_popescu: full fucking stop. they can't build the "hypertube" or w/e, and just in the same way, they can't build a fleet of b2s. just, simply, overpoweringly, can not.
mircea_popescu: but reason has nothing to do with it. neither lockheed nor anyone else could.
asciilifeform: there's not a stalin who will round up and shoot the lockheed board and their families etc
asciilifeform: lockheed et al have 0 reason to build ship that perma-floats, any more than monkey, to whom some idiot gave banana as 'salary', has any notion of 'showing up for work' the next morning
asciilifeform: who held up the wall with hands
asciilifeform: a la mircea_popescu's folk tale with the builders
asciilifeform: they have 0 incentive to use good boat design, that won't generate recurring revenue
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with those is that we get them as soon as they touch them.
mircea_popescu: you see, they can't use the good boat designs "because they haven't been digitized" which is code for "we lost them". so they're stuck with "This recipe i found on a site", entirely http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-31#1691198
asciilifeform: ( the various heartbleeds )
asciilifeform: there is another category of artifacts, products of guile rather than technical inventiveness -- the keys to the boobytraps
asciilifeform: in the form of artifacts
asciilifeform: most of the smart, at this point, is bottled from ages past
mircea_popescu: yes, in the sense door is a constellation of wood and divine grace.
mircea_popescu: if you don't fuck as well as you used to, it's because you forgot how to fuck, there's no more to it than that.
mircea_popescu: you're welcome to not believe, on ops grounds, "i will not believe enemy is dumb". but that aside, as a theoretical concern, how the fuck else will you explain "recent models actually worse performing than earlier models" ?
asciilifeform: nuke has priority somewhere below whoever cleans the wh bowling alley.
mircea_popescu: it's not that they lost the nuke schematics. it's that they can't even find the boat designs from back when their boats actually floated. so they end up with littoral cardboard sheeps.
mircea_popescu: you keep thinking the usg has actually interesting secrets, rather than the rejected scripts for reality tv we keep turning up in the sikrit vaults.
asciilifeform: e.g. yes some retired to dogs crone somewhere once photocopied the algo for breaking the weak class of aes key. no she has nfi what the funny letter on the paper meant, why would she.
mircea_popescu: literal kabuki, "and then we pretend the man with a black headband is invisible". exactly the same, "secret".
mircea_popescu: nothing is actually secret, nor could be. cuz how the fuck.
a111: Logged on 2015-06-10 03:40 asciilifeform: 'watchman may not know what is behind the door he is guarding; if he knew - would steal it himself' (tm) (r) (sov army)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the pretense of "secrets" and "classified" in such an environment is even more laughable than the theory whereby public grades it.
mircea_popescu: except, history dun repeat, even if it rhymes. those coupla women retiring are the last to make it on that conveyor belt.
mircea_popescu: which is the laugh of all time.
mircea_popescu: supposedly the public grades it.
asciilifeform: i usedta work in one of these
mircea_popescu: ~only correct way to understand post-cold-war government is as a public funded term paper mill. there's a bunch of people writing the papers and a bunch of nominally designated "students" "turning their work in".
mircea_popescu: coupla women, not really secretaries/receptionists, not really subsecretaries of state. the forklifts of government, doing the actual paper pushing. prolly in their 30s when they met, 30 years ago. eventually, gotta quit to hang out with the dogs / grandkids.
mircea_popescu: something like that. though i expect they had a coupla people specially for interfacing with him.
mircea_popescu: from the little actual i've seen, dude's just a very serious engineer type of the 70s, entirely unequipped to deal with the metrosexual fucktards of the 90s
asciilifeform: take out the gold teeth and move on.
asciilifeform: they treat the corpse as if it were alcoholic father , or the like - 'mustn't piss off, will beat us' 'mustn't piss off, maybe will give us treats'
asciilifeform: i have several convos like this, and consider them strictly 'psychiatrically' interesting
asciilifeform: the usual asciilifeform : 'i intend to reverse and publicly rape all bolix intellectualprowhateverthefucks' d00d: 'atrocity! but do you not fear and worry ! but nsa! ' etc
mircea_popescu: what about them ?
asciilifeform recently spoke with yet another 'but dks! but john mallery and nsa!' d00d
asciilifeform: it is almost like the ice40 aficionados are following the 'bolix-whisperers' 'we dun wanna piss off dks!111' school of thought
mircea_popescu: it wasn't so much solved as the producer documented it, isn't it.
asciilifeform: very studied, surprisingly enough, to the point of being fully solved
asciilifeform: it's their ver of the xilinx virtex, full of proprietary special blox of various sorts
asciilifeform: ( these are ubiquitous for xilinx & altera )
asciilifeform: very imho interestingly, NOBODY manufactures a board with an ice40 and a nontrivial qty of ram together.
mircea_popescu: oh, don't tell me, "we will not make payments to non 1-led addresses" hurt the butt quite THAT much did it ?
asciilifeform: this is great idea, possibly will finally get even the dullest off prb.
asciilifeform: relatedly the crashcoin etc idjits are pressuring the gavins ('core devs') to... break traditional addresses.
mircea_popescu: playing yesterday's game. as if it's fucking 1930 and "the masses" matter or some dumb shit.
mircea_popescu: o wow, this is like, usg foreign policy done by the guys they stole it from, so therefore ILLEGITIMATE OMYGERD!
asciilifeform: phf: the most basic education for-people is still > the finest available education for-ameritards
asciilifeform: gotta luvv the thief-crying-stopthief folx
asciilifeform: 'The Castro infiltration began over a decade ago when Fidel sent thousands of Cuban agents, designated as teachers and medical personnel, to spread propaganda and establish communist cells in the barrios.' didjaknow!!
phf: fwiw i never did experience that whole formulaic writing thing (though i know there were all kinds of other cases of "tattoos for the mind"), my russian/literature/foreign literature classes were brutal, i still have nightmares of cramming poetry last moment, 2-3 hours essay sessions that never seem to end, the three giant Yuri Lotman books
asciilifeform: from same rag: 'Venezuelans want to throw off the yoke of Cuban repression. They need your help.'
mircea_popescu: hey, i recall when this was being discussed on trilema in the future tense! what was it, coupla years ago ?
mircea_popescu: cryptome joined the off-internet bunch.
mircea_popescu: eh, you buy tickets, you land at airport, you go to hotel and you chat up the clerk. find out where the university is, go there, hang out in the cafeteria, offer to buy girls drinks / hire one to show you around.
mircea_popescu: well, you can always undertake two week vacation in ro, go northwest, the whores will be recognizably ukrainian and certainly friendly.
mircea_popescu: do a trilema article, we'll lol together.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-07 04:28 mircea_popescu: like, say, the vacation page ? wit hthe "goodbye so and so landmark" closer sentence ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose the moral being, we're going to see ever more waiters who read the log for i-log-ical purposes in teh futures. and, the imbecile (aka narcissist in ballas' terminology) being more dedicated to the preservation of the malfunctioning "self" he already has, they'll just run off the moment that dun work, to either try [the same stupid shit] again later or not dare to try again [ie, proclaim some sort of incomprehensible
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's kinda the thing, they self-flatteringly imagine i ended up here cuz i fell from a pot, not because i can see through them like so much glass beads.
mircea_popescu: ie, there are waiters who overheard enough in bits and pieces from the intellectual's disputes that they can overwhelm an university professor, especially if unprepared.
asciilifeform: the point re 'inserting equalitis' was spot on, i immediately pictured d00d's picture of mircea_popescu as wanderer with a sack tied to a stick , 'wandering because lost'
mircea_popescu: the other moo moo strat, since we're doing moo moo strats, is, of course, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-07#1694702 : spend a little time trying to follow a particular line into some detail, then "totally overwhelm" your betters by pointed questions. cuz you know, they totally don't outthink you on a regular basis.
mircea_popescu: necessary corollary of "people can have ideas". of course, "people" can't, but that's too advanced for the prostitextuate.
mircea_popescu: "oh, there's 5bn things that could be said and 3bn moo moos saying things, well, i'll be better served to "differentiate" myself from the herd by saying things according to how few others are saying them, than according to the things said"
asciilifeform: and never heard of the author prev
asciilifeform: lol i only read the 1st segment
mircea_popescu: this doesn't work, of course, but he'll whine loudly about the unfairness of it all.
mircea_popescu: i don't suppose either him or bitcoin or anything else talked about is related to the piece. the whole item is matt levine being his usual judische insolence self, whereby he imagines he can talk out his ass and he won't hang for it because "someone had to say the alternative thing".
mircea_popescu: you mean the subject ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun know much re the case, other than how the d00d was a master troll , 1st class ( bought some famous artsy piece of shit just to burn it, iirc, had a twatter where he bragged about demolishing various derps, etc)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform other than the butthurt of matt levine, who apparently holds the irrational impacted belief that usg matters/has a future against all possibnle evidence, what about that piece ?
asciilifeform: ( for nonplayers -- 'joseki' are sequences of moves, but not necessarily in opening of game ( as in, e.g., chess ) , which appear to be arbitrary to the uninitiated but you deviate from at your peril
mircea_popescu: i'm not enough of an expert on stupid-theatre to be able to say if this is fair or not to teh kabuki.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's the difference : "bad guy gets it (death)" and "woman gets it in the end (cock)" are fixed structure, they create the usian fictional narrative.
mircea_popescu: the form is just a way to cheat.
mircea_popescu: fixed structure is a cognitive necessity, from the kuhn-popper theory of paradigma-based research throughout the actual practice of scholastics all the way to a 10yos fixed structure "composition"
asciilifeform: what's the diff ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-07 04:27 mircea_popescu: phf did you live through soviet long enough to know the 10yo fixed-form composition ?
asciilifeform: it's probably the spin toy thing, glued to a plug
asciilifeform: they all have this shape
mircea_popescu: dun think i ever saw the specific one.
shinohai: I thought the caek was a lie.
mircea_popescu: in other news : cutting up a fresh vanilla bean and leaving the cuttings to sit under costa rican rum qs in a brown glass bottle results after a week or so in such an incredible vanilla tincture as the senses can scarcely believe.
mircea_popescu: o hey, that was the painlessest log catchup ever.
mircea_popescu: even if it's conspicuous consumption in the manner of "burn all these decadent bourgeois rembrandts"
mircea_popescu: still, the masterpieces and discoveries are not objectively valuable, even though the socialists love using them whenever they figure how to.
mircea_popescu: and so yes, a functional commercial environment will have you do some things, such as painting masterpieces and discovering the new world, in preference of others.
mircea_popescu: knowledge has you stick finger in some holes as opposed to others ; depending on the kind of knowledge so vary the kinds of holes.
mircea_popescu: in this configuration, it spins an axle. in another configuration, it'd have fed a mold or w/e.
mircea_popescu: take the combustion engine -- yes, the fuel burns ; yes it'd have oxidized anyway, eventually.
mircea_popescu: every ideological clothing of reality will priviledge some possible, occuring exchanges for others.
phf: so to revise the original point, markets create additional conditions under which higher payoff is obtained through cooperation in a situation of conflicting interests. though i'm not quite sure how that applies in the drowning situation, since it's missing the whole exchange of resources
phf: well, those things that i brought up, kinship, religion, they are part of identity. "he's not my brother i won't go out on a limb" vs "my life's not my own, god told me to help even if i die".
mircea_popescu: the problem with this view is that most cultures ethnonym is "man". raider/trader/etc would have to be exonyms.
phf: smooth, i suppose you could say that a raider wouldn't make a choice to trade, likewise trader doesn't necessarily have the inclination for raiding
mircea_popescu: this doesn't happen just when you want it, but generally. if you're gonna kill the dude drowning to take his underwear, you'll be stuck wearing a pair of stained underwear which you didn't stain yourself.
mircea_popescu: the problem with payoff is, of course, identity. to quote that splendid film, "when a man takes an oath, he is holding his soul in his hands, like water. if he opens his fingers then, he shouldn't worry about ever meeting himself again."
phf: i suppose that's the point of prisoner's dilemma, it establishes simple example of such conflict
phf: ok, i'm convinced of "cooperation is what happens anyway". now i think that it doesn't work with conflicting interests. save person from river, potentially drown yourself kind of situation. or trade with them with smaller payoff, kill them and take their stuff for higher payoff.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly alf -- teh russkis came up with the following item : a 20 ton truck with two engines, one powering the left side wheels, the other powering the right side wheels. i thought you should know.
mircea_popescu: 1. phf is walking down the road ; 2. phf perceives something in river ; 3. phf goes to help ; 4.a. phf discovers it was scarecrow, unloads helping module ; 4.b. phf discovers it is muscovy and he's from lvov, unloads helping module ; 4.c phf discovers it's his brother AND CARRIES ON.
mircea_popescu: but you're not helping him because he's your brother. you're helping him because you were going to help ; the part where he;s your brother is a 2nd step, where he doesn't get not-helped for being on do-not-help list.
phf: i understand the reversal (and it's a neat one) but i don't see how it's supported by anything but itself. you're basically saying that "oh someone's drowning, that's not my brother, fuck im" is what's happening, where's i'm saying "nothing's happening of note, oh it's my brother drowning! i should help him" is what's happening
mircea_popescu: 16yo is going to suck some cock. unless she's biologically broken, mentally retarded, in some manner not-human, dysfunctional failure, she is. now, whether she sucks hunter's cock because that's who daddy brought home or wolf of wallstreet cock because that's what the cat dragged into the bar is an ulterior consideration. she's not gonna be without.
mircea_popescu: the trick here is the usual "sleeping mind goes backwards through causal-time". the kinship is a particular shaving of the cooperation field -- you're supposed to help your kin and not help the nonkin. this does not mean "kinship made you help your kin" ; you wer going to help and this told you who NOT to help.
mircea_popescu: cooperation is a behaviour ; kinship is a status. they're not compatible in this sense.
phf: but i'm not even sure if kinship and cooperation are similar nature of happen. does kinship promote cooperation as it's only source, but then you can do mental tricks to extend kinship beyond actual kin to likewise extend cooperation?
phf: well, but if you're saying that cooperation is what happens, then at the very least same can be said about kinship.
mircea_popescu: doesn't specifically care who desdemona fucks, but very much cares if the moor sent any venetian coins back to mauretania.
mircea_popescu: much in the vein of "hair-grows on face ; we call a moustache this particular shaving pattern, and sideburns this other shaving pattern" ?
mircea_popescu: so is there any argument against the "cooperation is what happens anyway, there's a number of known ways to discourage kinds, such as market, faith, kinship, etc" ?
phf: hmm, i'm saying that market is one of the ways to encourage cooperation, where one wouldn't necessarily exist otherwise; there are other better ways, kinship, religion, king/leviathan
mircea_popescu: i mean, "advanced" folk can't get a carpool to work, whereas "backwards" folk can drop a supernumerary child with the first woman/gaggle of children they run into, and it'll work out. "here, take this, i'll take it back tonight".
mircea_popescu: seems the natural basic quanta of cooperation, "making a new child".
phf: yes, but then you're substituting village for city
mircea_popescu: market organizes capital, of course, and man is capital, yes, but it doesn't encourage cooperation anymore than it encourages the grass to grow.
phf: if you screw somebody in a repeated trade, they won't necessarily do trade with you again
mircea_popescu: consider the case of kitty genovese ; or else a more general, abstracted point : you go into a field where men are working, in a rural, traditional, thereby market-clean setting, and i dunno, sayu a man is drowned in the river and ask for help. they will cooperate, won't they ? whereas if there's a market going they'll go... "go talk to the market-specialist, we're not in that line of work", yes ?
phf: i wasn't actually thinking to the west, i was treating soviet union as a self-contained system. the point i was trying to make is that (and this is all very RANDian) in the absence of a market graph you needed an alternative mechanism to encourage cooperation, which in this case was the propaganda system "real soviet man does X" etc.
mircea_popescu: you had any contact with the living memory of soviet punk ? was this thing early on, "soviet too soft, gotta be moar hardcore" youth movement, wouldn't wash, didn't ask women to fuck, somewhat vaguelyt like the great leap forward kids in china.
mircea_popescu: suddenly the proposition becomes untenable.
mircea_popescu: this puts the problem in context : "don't defect to west because even if materially stronger, it is morally weaker. BUT ALSO!!!! don't defect to fucking mongoloids because even though morally stronger they... don't have enough dachas ?"
mircea_popescu: i know for a fact kgb had chuka defection directorate because hey, during the groznii siege all the signals folk involved had "experience in the problem".
mircea_popescu: no, see, you're thinking "to the west" with such intensity it can't even be voiced. suppose for the sake of argument, defect to chuka. why not ?
phf: it's in the statement of the prisoner's dilemma, "defect" to the hypothetical inquisitors by betraying the other prisoner (i know that the terminology used introduces interesting connotations within the soviet regime, but i don't think that's the intent)
phf: i understand the point though, my understanding that i haven't evaluated in a while was that soviet were attempting to solve prisoners dilemma by training "a soviet man". brain tattooing makes sense in that respect, though my interpretation is generous to the goals
BingoBoingo: Most common meme was "Our school is too poor to afford the new world maps"
mircea_popescu: "Ce frumoasa este iarna!" ie, "how beautiful $item is!". early, cheap, typewriter-and-indigo-paper powered shanonizing. fill in these blanks, and memorize the template they go into.
mircea_popescu: in the way of "in our democracy" and "rights of all people" and so on. it's emergent in teh anglo.
mircea_popescu: in the way of "la revedere, gara din pascani!" ie, "goodbye, train station of pascani!"
mircea_popescu: (and yes, of course this is the ancient papal legate rulebook for message composition.)
BingoBoingo: [1] Thesis, introduce points 1, 2, and 3 [2] Elaborate Point 1 [3] Elaborate Point 2 [4] Elaborate Point 3 [5] Conclusion, i.e. repeat thesis and reiterate points 1, 2, and 3
mircea_popescu: strangely, the us version is a lot less endearing, perhaps in that it so carefully avoids appearing naive to itself.
mircea_popescu: substitute tattoo of wooden tongue was employed in soviet world, to the amusement of early postmoderns in the west.
mircea_popescu: and the story it tells is that cca 1950 soviet / 1800 western world, it was already impossible to produce meaningful tattoos due to growing complexity.
mircea_popescu: allows comparison of the item with its summary for maximal comprehension.
mircea_popescu: soviet is very instructive for the anthropologist because it is roughly speaking "summarized early modern".
mircea_popescu: but see, that's not at all the point. for one thing : all scholarship is nonsense. for the other, soviet school si entirely propaganda, which is to say "prepare organ donors for a certain way of life". the fucking point of the fixed form 3rd/4th grade composition is to allow the submarginal intellects making up the bulk of the population to tattoo their brains into a form that'll then allow them to survive, as traffic agents
BingoBoingo: In other his-stories http://trilema.com/2015/the-strange-case-of-the-woodcollector-and-other-stories/
phf: i'm not sure, i went to "humanities special school" it's possible they didn't torture us with such nonsense
mircea_popescu: like, say, the vacation page ? wit hthe "goodbye so and so landmark" closer sentence ?
mircea_popescu: phf did you live through soviet long enough to know the 10yo fixed-form composition ?
mircea_popescu: "the more things there are to be, the fewer beings you will have". eventually that reaches 0 and that's that.
mircea_popescu: leaving alone that none of the things are anything but time-compatible : they're not mutually meaningful in any meaningful way.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem -- we do SO MANY things. "oh i'm a father and an employee of the month", says the office plankton. well... also a consumer, and a sayer of VERY finely tuned nonsense. wut now.
mircea_popescu: not just the animals, either. the people are SO FUCKING SUSPICIOUS if they lived in lafond's own they'd be shot like twice a week just "on general principle" to borrow a tarantinoism. and utterly unaware of it, also.