asciilifeform: it was ~eliminated in the schools shortly before he landed in usa .
mircea_popescu: (it didn't help that it was in the torah of the time, as per saint habarnam gospels, "only blockprinted")
mircea_popescu: da fuck is wrong with people these days, i do not know, but i do recall as early teens, 12 yo or so, there was this very exciting moment in school when they imported AN AMERICAN!!! to do some english classes. this was you know, wild wild stuff at the time.
asciilifeform: the magic of arithmetizing by hand.
mircea_popescu: very evidently what it does. at least to the sort of people who learned how to write in longhand and do square roots by hand
mircea_popescu: and since i've this piled in here : to ~multiply~ 349087340 by 3059056 : you create a list 22 items long, that is 29 + 22 bits wide, and you proceed writing down 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 0110 1100 in it bit-shifted 22 times, nulled on occasion. then you add these terms. right ?
asciilifeform: the fact that it advances a bit at a time ?
mircea_popescu: so then what is bitwise in it ?!
mircea_popescu: wtf "wrodwise" ? the only way to do division is divisor-bitsize
mircea_popescu: we continue comparing the divisor, adding bits from the divident's tail and substracting the divident until we run out of digits, at which time we have the remainder. every time we substract we mark down an 1, every time we add digits from the divident's tail we mark down a 0.
mircea_popescu: 3. we substract the divisor from this fragment of the divident, obtaning 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 01 - 10 1110 1010 1101 0111 0000 = 10 0100 1000 1101 0010 1001 (aka 2395433).
mircea_popescu: 2. we select the first 22 bits of the dividend, to wit 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 0 and we compare the divisor to it. as the divisor is larger, we add one further bit, obtaining 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 01.
mircea_popescu: 1. we notice that 349087340 being 1 0100 1100 1110 1010 0110 0110 1100 is 29 bits long. we further notice that 3059056 being 10 1110 1010 1101 0111 0000 is 22 bits long.
asciilifeform: believe or not there are several known subquadratic division algos
mircea_popescu: this is the stupidest shit i ever heard. gimme two numbers.
asciilifeform: ( the egyptian multer, now gone -- did walk the bits, and was directly analogous to the knuthian divider )
asciilifeform: notice that it doesn't walk the bits
mircea_popescu: well, it's the core of the combustion engine, innit ? continuously-variably-voluminous.
asciilifeform: and why almost the entirety of the ~useful~ reading material asciilifeform collected, was from iron makers
asciilifeform: it reflects the reality of what a 'constantspacetime program' really is.
mircea_popescu: there's some common language overload that seems to make "mechanism" preferable, but it's slight and who cares.
mircea_popescu: pure historical accident. you'd rather call it circuit ?
asciilifeform: show the gates.
mircea_popescu: this new item is to my eyes fundamental pillar of "fit in head", because a thoroughly well understood mechanism can then be relegated to background and built upon.
mircea_popescu: W, precisely, it is to be obtained. this is why the concept of "function" as heretofore used is not useful in republican computing, and we must introduce a new item.
mircea_popescu: oh btw, should prolly formalize the function/mechanism thing from yest a bit. so, a function (in the correct, math understanding, a "procedure" in cs lingo is no different, which is why lisp hasn't "procedures") denotes correct results, but does not connote any particular method of obtaining them. this is no good for us, in many military applications, where we must actually specify not merely WHAT is being sought, but also HO
asciilifeform: other observation , gleaned from mircea_popescu and then from knuth -- can modularly ~add~ inside karatsubatron
asciilifeform: but i still gotta massage the divider
asciilifeform: ( typically it is the silent lurkers who read every line of it, oddlyenough )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713808 << i did assume that d00d read the current coad
mircea_popescu: now, good insulation DOES model the flow of heat, ie the hotter outer part will cool more before it touches your sram, so not entirely useless.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 17:17 asciilifeform: apeloyee: anything that beats multiply-then-divide is an improvement, so long as it meets the basic demands ( constant time, constant space, NO branches that depend on input bits, no use of approximations, no massively heavy - 100 loc is a good approx max - code )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you realise thermic isolation is a time function, yes ? eventually all parts of assemblage do end up in thermic equilibrium, there's no pill for this. insulation just makes it take longer is all.
asciilifeform: ( possible example of the former -- http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-18#982523 ; of the latter -- aerogels )
asciilifeform: there is imho a marked difference tho b/w 'nobody mass produces this' and 'nobody knows how'
asciilifeform: some folx make holographs today, in their cellars, it is i suspect the same attraction. rather like colour film in 1930s
asciilifeform: it's really half the attraction of having own decent lab setup
mircea_popescu: no, gotta leave something for the industrious to gift.
asciilifeform: and not only could be, but could be attached to the end of a red hot poker , and subject would feel no heat
mircea_popescu would be genuinely curious if this could be done. on one hand trained girl can do wonders with ass, on other hand that thing is fragile as all fuck...
mircea_popescu: "your higheness, have your favourite slave fuck herself in the ass with it!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enough there is a monument to this aluminum right here . washington obelisk has a top, 'priceless' pyramid of al
mircea_popescu: (and to round off the above : consider that the first metallic aluminum was shaped into a box and offered to the same person as the ironclad drawings were offered. whyssat ? cuz that's how all science flew back when people could control it.)
asciilifeform: did we ever do the chronometer thing ? a bit like that there egg, likewise craftsman 'unindustrial' product, and made the british navy briefly +ev
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's two kinds of people -- and only one of them comes back from the war to complain about the boots.
mircea_popescu: more importantly -- that the chinese DID takle over "industry", as well they should ; but that survival and prosperity depends on THIS. let them have THAT industry, it's actually a great fit for them.
asciilifeform: lathe driven moar by musketry than by fine art tho
mircea_popescu: and broadly speaking -- that without THIS neither laplace nor the lathe are happening, period and full stop.
mircea_popescu: but the point remains that the high performance lathe was invented FOR THIS not for that!
mircea_popescu: so : the faberge egg, the original, was made in 1885 ; but it was the continuation and in a sense the crowing of a current of thought (ie, culture) and proper civilisation that reached back over a centry.
asciilifeform: ( we had the thread, possibly )
mircea_popescu: but the preoccupations of the culture at the time were such that INSTEAD he "of his own" "preferred" to solve some important geometry problemsa
mircea_popescu: dood could have been a general discussing importantly female transsexuals in the french expeditionary force
asciilifeform: i recall the automata, von kempelen et al
mircea_popescu: hence all the clock towers with figurines, and about 50% of german lands gdp.
mircea_popescu: before europe went stupid, and blacklivesmatter all over itself, there was a major concern with making mechanical life.
asciilifeform: the eggs
mircea_popescu: entirely orthogonal tech stacks ; and wouldn't you know it that the simple man's reaction to perceptible orthogonality is to pick one and pretend the rest dun exist.
mircea_popescu: and no, none of the "three for five bux, plastic injected and happy face" is in any way competition (or god help us replacement!) for what's here discussed.
mircea_popescu: we're at the third pass of midden filtering! think about it!
mircea_popescu: that "trademark" is now owned by unilever, as you might've guessed, and it's used to sell items in qatar, as you might've also guessed. the point being that the poor rich arabs are trying to salvage whatever's left of the tsar's pile of salvaged material, today.
mircea_popescu: but on the significance front i asked because the principal preoccupation of the russian tsar afrter the french went stupid was to rescue as much of the old world industry stack as possible, which is how jhe ended up with swiss, austrian, french etc manufacturers.
mircea_popescu: anyway, since nobody apparently got the faberge egg bait, let's put it in the logs. so yes on the substance front i asked alf if he knows what it is because it is in fact stained glass, except with gold instead of lead and porcelain instead of glass, ie just like his properly cast key, piston-and-typeface in metal, bulk in porcelain.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 19:21 mircea_popescu: way the fuck cheaper socially than my stricter "i will only have children in a society where i get to decide if they live or die"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713729 << this is not even a correct statement. more properly "i will desist killing all my offspring before gestation completes if and only if my sovereign right to kill them at any time is socially recognized".
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, the flip is happening Great Again!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo well, us "parties" history is funny in that having no proper substance of their own (let alone ideology, bridge too far) they keep osciallting throiugh the same zero both. it's like centennial switcharoo game.
trinque: romans would toss the duds into slavery, eh? similar outputs?
mircea_popescu: way the fuck cheaper socially than my stricter "i will only have children in a society where i get to decide if they live or die"
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, the arrangement where the woman is a slave (like every sultan's consort up to roxana) and her offspring ARE SLAVES TOO until such a time father thinks otherwise (which yes, can be coming of age, if ever) is probably best way to do it.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> nonsensical-populist. << And not Pantsuit took over the party he founded
mircea_popescu: really, ran on the time's MAGA platform, got nowhere.
asciilifeform: at least had the sense to mostly withdraw from public life
mircea_popescu: but if it's not fucking obvious that in 1800 agrarianism is another word for nonsense...
mircea_popescu: at the time, this was called "agrarian"
trinque: but no, I'm sure she'd have rather blacklivesmattered loudly somewhere dressed in walmart rags
mircea_popescu: the pretention that "they have other things to do" a flimsy wrapper over the obvious "you've nobody that'd take you in"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it'd work a-ok for all the current ronin ones.
mircea_popescu: but the more general points of "rape" and "racism" were being discussed.
mircea_popescu: the particular woman in question was yes, domestic slavegirl, it's a thing, it works well.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> j was by some accounts an introverted d00d, did not much get along with chix, after his wife died decided to solve problem 'the sexbot way' << Not 'sexbot way', in the way his time and place handled much beloved mistress; such status is indicated by liberation as opposed to re-sale of the resultant octaroon children at their coming of age (as opposed to Jefferson's death).
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a lot more common than realised, on account of accomplished adult male not having patience for the older female only mode of life (the claque).
mircea_popescu: and if they had been jewish, all her older female relatives would have gotten misty in the cobweb, "omfg he's a DOCTOR!!!"
asciilifeform: j was by some accounts an introverted d00d, did not much get along with chix, after his wife died decided to solve problem 'the sexbot way'
mircea_popescu: heck, they don't wanna fuck them as it is, TODAY! look through the dating sites, two thirds of black female profiles indicate "no black males" in some manner (such as, "no gangstas" or whatever)
mircea_popescu: what exactly am i asked to believe, that woman whose name only exists because she was bought by jefferson family somehow had other priorities ? like what, sexual congress with the black males ? odds are she'd have rather fucked a donkey.
mircea_popescu: the proposition that there existed black woman in the time discussed who didn't similarily bask in "omfg, WHITE MAN!!! is scratching me between the legs" is out and out ridiculous anachronism.
mircea_popescu: all the dogs i ever met were thrilled to be scratched behind ears whenever and whichever way you felt like, the warm glow of "omfg, i am being handled BY HUMAN!!!" visibly overpowering all "thoughts" such as they had in their dog brain.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713488 << rather, could have possibly liked BEING MANHANDLED by jefferson ~or whatever other white boy was willing~.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes, because the free strings they can get hands on were written in 1980 by gosplan as quoted, rather than in 2000 by perianne boring aspie
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 15:43 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713468 << i'm still waiting for the brezhnev-yeltsin state-of-the-art to come back -- guard with tranquilizer gun, 'oh she felt unwell'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whole thing is more or less the customary english clickfarm, but with order of magnitude less pantsuit (e.g. instead of clitler pieces, 'magnify yer tits' etc )
asciilifeform: i've yet to meet anybody who disassembles engine just for the hell of it
asciilifeform: at one time i thought 'hm would be nifty to get an ural' but then noticed that d00d has the pistons laid out on a towel in his front yard, more often that i ever hear or see the machine actually go
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there were some zundapps still on the road when asciilifeform was a boy, in orcistan
mircea_popescu: though you realise the side wheel is driven
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo the bmw r75 will do ice. << Still requires skill
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the bmw r75 will do ice.
shinohai: AH THE RELIANT ROBIN mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> when usa physical reality finally converges to the economic reality, i'd expect revival of the motorcycle. but for some reason not happened yet << This summer there's been more of them locally than in recent history. Much of the US though has winter...
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: where i live one still sees these ~exclusively in the warm months, driven by hobbyists -- rather than commuters who can't afford petrol for a 4cyl
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: A couple towns away there is Vespa/Ural dealer
asciilifeform: i have a neighbour who has, i shit thee not, a 'ural'
mircea_popescu: moar like the nazy 2 seater item.
asciilifeform: when usa physical reality finally converges to the economic reality, i'd expect revival of the motorcycle. but for some reason not happened yet
BingoBoingo: Yeah, it didn't take. through Mitsubishi years they did economy thing with lonely Viper and Neon SRT-4 being only power offerings that weren't trucks
BingoBoingo: Yeah, Like they did in early 1970's
BingoBoingo: Also doing the thing where they sell the public big numbers of horsepower or at least appearance thereof
BingoBoingo: Dodge challenger/Charger is the trend
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> pagin BingoBoingo ... what do they do ? ( 'tesla' ?! ) << Fuck they all drive Dodges!
mircea_popescu: the demographic slices lulz are best enjoyed by the traveller btw. in argentina, they ACTUALLY ADVERTISE "french technology" in automotive industry.
BingoBoingo: With Mitsubishi itself being the only Japanese automaker in US whose name is anti-associated with reliability
BingoBoingo: Was Daimler Chrysler with US products being "Diamond Star Motors" or whatever the fuck mitsubishis
BingoBoingo: Maserati seems to be the one I see on road least un-often
BingoBoingo: Everyone else drives crossovers because they suppose it lives in exact middle
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Last I checked they did euro supercars and bespoke super suvs.
asciilifeform: pagin BingoBoingo ... what do they do ? ( 'tesla' ?! )
asciilifeform: ( as seen in the wv idiocy )
mircea_popescu: no, i mean from the following cultural perspective : for as long as road network continues growing, the user wants massive, impressive beast of a steel machine. to show his supremacy over the attendant landscape in proper context (ie, he's affraid of the wilderness roads expand into). once expansion stops, he wants an efficient little thing, to get it over the next guy (ie, he's affraid of neighbour). and once road network st
mircea_popescu: leaving aside how that 98lb woman could NOT have eaten the 18 oz porterhouse she served herself in two days : really doods, to finally afford 10 bucks wortha meat you gotta be promoted to floor 51 ?!
mircea_popescu: dig up a new pool, that she quits her job, and that they EAT A STEAK.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i watched last night "fun with dick and jane", which is a fine throwaway. other than tea leoni making a way the fuck better applegate/bancroft/whatever (these typically ustardian huswife of businessman roles, where businessman is one of those schmucks doing nothing, "vp of ziggler-engels" sorta thyings). but the interestinfg part is : the guy gets a promotion. the signalling signs of this promotion are, that they
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: 2017 Ford ® Edge SUV |2.7L Ecoboost® - The Most Powerful Gas ...: <https://www.ford.com/suvs-crossovers/edge/2017/>; 2017 Ford Edge - Build & Price: <http://shop.ford.com/build/edge/>; Ford Edge Prices, Reviews and Pictures | U.S. News & World Report: <https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/ford/edge>
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i kinda always wondered why exactly the SUV craze stopped. i mean, once you give up on sense, there's no way to land, is there ? they could have made a DOUBLE SIZED "car", that takes up two lanes, and could carry that much more injected plastic on the frame.
BingoBoingo: And the "nicer" Walmart always gets beat by the better at spreadsheets in space walmart as old women get their 3 status items of not being poor from the faddy not-Walmart and race the rest of their money to the bottom walmart
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713471 << and be part of an actual car (submarine-hellicopter) with the generator in the trunk and the bitchez sunning themselves on teh roof ?
mircea_popescu: there is that.
BingoBoingo: Failure to manage is exactly how the fortunes bestowed to select members of the urban underpriviledged get captured by Amway and other MLM scams. It's also the story of Bitcoin history from Obsi through Gigavps through labcoin to Ether huffing. Money naturally attracts old women who want it to turn into a Walmart, but a "nicer" one than the neighbors have.
BingoBoingo: Well, yes. fail to manage and the money pushes everything to Walmart
mircea_popescu: you can't lose the teenaged sluts, with your head.
mircea_popescu: more like where the epic failure of management to manage the business leaves it stranded.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sorta how porn transitioned from finding teenagers looking to explore the world to producing vanity tapes so rando hookers can pretend to be "pornstars" for an extra 10 bucks in the vip room.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz : a) http://cartooncon.org/ b) http://www.cartooncon.org/wp-content/xzi/caiozri.php?id=deocamdata-sinonim
asciilifeform: apeloyee: consider registering with deedbot, you can voice then.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, after the millionaire show and a few other mega jackpots the game shows transitioned to "reality tv" which at first had prizes and then simply came with attention and opportunity to make own fortune or peril
mircea_popescu: they also didn't have eg "total make-over" shows and so on.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 03:48 BingoBoingo: AHA, until late 1990's that was US gameshow maximum prize! Then inflation
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713462 << i suspect back before the "end of the world" people had a firm dislike for "life changing prizes". because hadn't experienced disruption in the proper sense ; and understood the lottery winner problems.
mircea_popescu: and in other acts of solitude, http://68.media.tumblr.com/a9b75079a9a4270bfdf54bf3d94c88a2/tumblr_nv3gqw7wds1uos8l5o1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: currently it seems to me that the reciprocal step ~alone~ will cost more than my knuthdivision residue finder in its entirety.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: if you want to write out the full algo, i'll read
apeloyee: standard barrett requires a*b<n^2, yes. hence I specified the double-precision reciprocal.
asciilifeform: so this really makes the question of whether barrett could, in principle, be made in constant spacetime, academic.
asciilifeform: if you made the double-wide reciprocal ( i will leave aside the question of how to do this in provable constant time and provable correctness ) you're stuck using that width.
asciilifeform: the only reason we are able to avoid this in karatsubamulter, is that the 2B is ~never~ treated as one number except on output, it is dealt with in parts
asciilifeform: except in 2x the bitness.
asciilifeform: now this isn't even all. how the fuck do you intend to calculate the reciprocal WITHOUT DOING THE SAME DIVISION I'M DOING NOW
asciilifeform: other thing, apeloyee , is that if ffa does NOT operate on mixed bitnesses. i.e. if your operands are B bits, and you introduced an intermediate of some kind that is 2B bitness, now ALL of your computations with that must be 2B wide (incl. comparisons, nullity checks.)
asciilifeform: knuth division 'restorer' fires either once or not at all
asciilifeform: understand, the program may NOT include 'if' or any equivalent.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: for instance, how do you propose to carry out the corrector/verifier without using conditionals ?
asciilifeform: probably the only actual optimization possible.
asciilifeform: ( modulus and both multiplicands have same bit width, and if you read the rest of ffa as has been posted here, you will know that NO such thing as normalization ever takes place, or will ever take place, all operands are assumed to be N-bit )
asciilifeform: this means that yes it has to work on , e.g., even moduli. or moduli that are substantially larger, or smaller, than either or both of the multiplicands.
asciilifeform: likewise it also demands that there be NO table lookups
asciilifeform: i.e. 0 * 0 mod 0 must result in the execution of exactly the same sequence of cpu cycles, as maxwidthint * maxwidthint mod maxwidthint .
asciilifeform: apeloyee: anything that beats multiply-then-divide is an improvement, so long as it meets the basic demands ( constant time, constant space, NO branches that depend on input bits, no use of approximations, no massively heavy - 100 loc is a good approx max - code )
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Well, for the real deal on tht you have to go to the ever trendy open air "produce market" http://soulardmarketstl.com/
asciilifeform: 'They covered the statue of the university’s founder, and signs reading “racist” and “rapist” were placed on it.'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/xFSpv << '...statue of Thomas Jefferson in black Tuesday night during a rally criticizing the university’s response to recent white nationalist demonstrations...' etc lulz >> qntra fodder ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 08:30 BingoBoingo: Win https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6zq3ib/hillary_clinton_asked_what_happened_to_seth_rich/?utm_content=comments&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=The_Donald
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-13#1713468 << i'm still waiting for the brezhnev-yeltsin state-of-the-art to come back -- guard with tranquilizer gun, 'oh she felt unwell'
asciilifeform: 'The TrueDepth camera analyzes more than 50 different muscle movements to mirror your expressions in 12 Animoji. Reveal your inner panda, pig, or robot.'
asciilifeform: 'Your face is now your password. Face ID is a secure new way to unlock, authenticate, and pay.'
BingoBoingo: Win https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6zq3ib/hillary_clinton_asked_what_happened_to_seth_rich/?utm_content=comments&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=The_Donald
jhvh1: danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: AHA, until late 1990's that was US gameshow maximum prize! Then inflation
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform goes 'wtf, THIS crackpottery of mine - you lot find interesting, but the stubborn boojum that keeps 'p' from happening, not interesting somehow ' << Everyone has strong opinions on materials
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> run of the mill pantsuit idiocy, but then suddenly "Es que en Rumanía todos se llaman Mircea Popescu. ¿Sabes?" << LOLOLOLOL
asciilifeform: but i specifically refuse'em because NOT ORTHOGONAL, they don't belong as part of a general-purpose numbertheoretical minimal 'crypto lego set'.
asciilifeform: incidentally in case it weren't obvious, much bloatier rsatrons than the one contemplated in ffa, fit in asciilifeform's head -- e.g. montgomery mult, barrett, various war crimes in that vein
asciilifeform: and moreover i can never be convinced that they ain't lying TO ME
asciilifeform: it does not fit in my head, and i am not convinced that the folx who claim that it fits into theirs, ain't lying
asciilifeform: nuffin in there is any moar weighty than long division.
asciilifeform: arguably the jury's still out on what constitutes 'every literate man's head' capacity
asciilifeform: this is actually the situation with, e.g., fft mult
mircea_popescu: which fits in SOME heads, liek galois' in 1800s or the fermat thing recently.
asciilifeform: a proper fits-in-head item fits in the literate man's head.
mircea_popescu: how do you judge what fits in another's head ?
asciilifeform: though it may in majority of observed cases produce 'correct answer' to the naked eye
asciilifeform: i'd like it not to be lost upstack, so will restate ftr : a 'optimized' rsa that no longer fits in head and is no longer demonstrably-correct , ( and worse yet, no longer operates branch-free ) is NOT RSA and is simply a turd being fraudulently passed off as the genuine article
mircea_popescu: usually takes the form of !Whine that's not fair!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the race is a fuzzy thing to begin with, if the cars can be arbitrarily altered
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how do you redefine "winning the race" ? have the drivers recite the engine parts afterwards, disqualify all errors ?
asciilifeform: the process is 'must fit in head'. for so long as item fits in head, it is demonstrably solving the stated problem ( which, unsurprisingly, must also fit in head as a statement )
mircea_popescu: point being, until and unless the process is thoroughly and well understood, we'll keep being blindsided by "mining is a bug" bugs.
asciilifeform: except that : it is no longer the SAME IT
mircea_popescu: nevertheless...
mircea_popescu: technically you're right -- the change fgrom satoshi's prototype mining to today's item comes exactly from "young cocks" trying to get laid.
mircea_popescu: take the inconvenientmost example, of bitcoin mining.
asciilifeform: comes from young cocks who want to 'make their mark', most typically
mircea_popescu: BUT!!! restarted the complexification process.
asciilifeform: this is the typical complexitycollapse, happened to, e.g., ibm pc
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding EVERYONE there had the practical, earn equivalent of 5 phds in mech eng.
mircea_popescu: but the process is interestring, they kept adding shit to the old engine to "make it better". which it did, at the cost of becoming unmaintainable.
asciilifeform: and answer is that obviously idjits will take ANYTHING you make, sane rsa, sane kalash, whatever, and Bolt Shit To The Side
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform engine work the interesting part, but sure.
mircea_popescu: ok, quick summary : tech pre-injectors was carburators. engines "optimized for racing" got slowly more complex over time. then injection became feasible, and they simplified. now they've recomplexified again.
asciilifeform: the folx who took stock cars, and tore out seats, floor, etc ?
mircea_popescu: the sort of culture of the 70s/80s of which "need for speed" franchise is a sad bastardization in the ustardian hot topic sense ?
mircea_popescu: btw, you have any exposure to the racing cars social millieu ?
asciilifeform: it's every bit the fastest when sat on proper iron.
mircea_popescu: that's always the trade-off, clarity for specificity.
mircea_popescu: your sane solution won't be the fastest.
asciilifeform: you solve this by making the sane solution, actually usable.
mircea_popescu: neither do you. it's unbound.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how many people you will have to shoot to keep them from taking your general-purpose p-based rsa and writing a narrower, "works for rsa only" faster program.
mircea_popescu: "badly built house walls fall because people let them ; and when the "stop" letting them by starting propping them up, they stop falling"
mircea_popescu: the point re why the fuck does everything have to degrate stupidly is what's complicated about this.
asciilifeform: if we gotta compute on fpga, to do rsa sanely -- then fpga it is. 8192-bit regs.
asciilifeform: because there is demonstrably no difference.
asciilifeform: if idjits want to optimize in a way that results in nonfittinginhead, they may as well install winblowz
mircea_popescu: because optimizations. which may piss you off, but it'll be done anyway ; and the process MUCHLY reminds me of how bitcoin mining degraded irl.
mircea_popescu: the sadness here is that indeed tmsr-rsa is turning into separate item from p itself.
asciilifeform: ( incidentally reader might ask 'why not do montgomery? you're doing rsa anyway' and answer is not only 'maybe tomorrow, cramer-shoup and not rsa' but also that we do things such as primality testing , and other non-rsa op )
mircea_popescu: so, want a frog you can kiss into housekeeper&cocksucker all you want, for all the good'll do ye.
mircea_popescu: most of which are verboten by the whole "mechanism" view of things.
mircea_popescu: all that's left is little cheats here and there.
asciilifeform: is what i was trying to get across in the beginning
mircea_popescu: anyways. i spent some time where the math lives, and i am satisfied that proving some sort of hard relation between fxy=mod(xy) and a polynomial expression of xy is in fact reality-breaking.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm satisfied that it holds, as written. in re knuth, turned out that i was thinking of the 'addition chains' method of mod-exp
mircea_popescu: so in the end what was it, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-12#1713104 or http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-12#1713161 ? cuz i don't expect it can be both dubious and well known at the same time.
asciilifeform: one way or another it will have to appear.
asciilifeform: the saving grace is that indeed i and everybody else can get by without ideal modelf kbd. but on the other hand i ~do~ need a modmulter.
mircea_popescu: at any rate if you put an order for keys they'll be relieved. "really, not pens for once ?! holy shit this is the most exciting this job ever got"