mod6: Another thing worth the mention is that my ada-vtron shells out to gpg - which adds some time as well. one thing I think that would help is if I could figure out how to capture the shell command output directly back into the application instead of having to write to a file, then read the file back into the program.
mod6: The good news is I'm learning stuff.
mod6: Anyway, there is some hope here perhaps -- got a long way to go.
mod6: Doing such, avoid use of the heap. And there is quite a bit of manipulation I have to do with the strings. So that adds some cost, because I'm basically doing the parsing on my own. I'm not using any weird 3rd party libs.
mod6: Basically when working with Strings.Fixed I end up making arrays (of fixed size) of strings (of fixed size), need to use caution always to not continue to iterate if the string at a given index is filled with ' '.
mod6: To close the loop here a bit, the vtron stuff I've been doing in ada is a lot faster now than it was -- just needed to get some better loop control.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-01 16:43 asciilifeform: usg luuuuvs to know at the borders if you're pissing neutrons (note what price of helium on the market did in past 20 yrs. us dhs bought up most of it, for tubes)
a111: Logged on 2015-10-19 21:14 assbot: NYPD caught using X-ray vans to search the public, refuses court order to release details | ExtremeTech ... ( http://bit.ly/1PCA1cv )
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/GhTjl ( and elsewhere, e.g. https://archive.is/uvS7m ) >> 'Jose Lugo said the tall metal towers quickly appeared up after the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel tolls booths came down. “We don’t really know what’s the purpose of this,” he told Carlin. It’s a $100 million MTA project shrouded in secrecy, with 18 of them for tunnels and bridges. So what are they exactly? The MTA’s man in charge of the
mircea_popescu: (dogegoin, which "still exists" has a "market cap" of whatever, >100mn, according to the websites printing arbitrary values next to text strings ; similarily myspace.com is worth $70 mn according to "Worth Of Web Calculator - World's #1 Website Value Calculator")
mircea_popescu: le-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/
mircea_popescu: and all this "forking" and "bitcoin cash" and "segwit" and "protocols" and "agreements" bullshit readily brings to mind the old age discussion of all the "alt" bitcoin flavours, back when the item was called doge and the idiots with delusions of self importance were called jackson palmer, kevin rose etc : http://trilema.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptib
mircea_popescu: (the principal limitation of the instrument is that the sound is directional. that's why the twin players is so tempting.)
mircea_popescu: competent romanians will tell you the instrument's required in serious gypsy band yes.
mircea_popescu: known as "vioara cu goarna" in romanian (higheghe cu tolcer in local dialect ; stroh violin in other local dialect) if you want to look it up yourself. it's the chosen / symbolic instrument of bihor country in transylvania, but widely used in teh nortern countries (of romania).
mod6: interesting instrument there
mircea_popescu: and in other special purpose instruments, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHtWSNnXEw
BingoBoingo: And Scottish firefighters are being trained to address the increase in Machete injuries afflicting TheQueenzDemoocracy https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/856238/Scottish-firefighters-trained-help-terror-victims
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> choose! zerocoin or zcash or ethertardium!1! << But no longer KKKorea Koin http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/09/29/lesser-than-north-korea-joins-china-in-banning-ico-fad-ether-prices-drop-with-news/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's a 'designated marksman' version firing ye olde winchester long round. but less common , among hobbyists
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i was thinking of the large rapper stuff automatically.
mircea_popescu: ah this ar thing fires the short nato round does it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they fired from platform yo.
mircea_popescu: (i don't even mean bulk per se. most fucktoys have eg delicate wrists. can't really use guns effecutally if your two fists together weigh less than a gulp of beer.)
mircea_popescu: those items were ceremonial. you've seen the sword of king who actually used it,
asciilifeform: hey it isn't so much moar idiotic than the ubiquitous, in monkeystans, gilded kalash
mircea_popescu: "can you paint the rifling on ?"
mircea_popescu: lol. what'd you like the barrel to be ? rifled OR PAINTED ?
mircea_popescu: pretty sure you can chrome them in colors.
mircea_popescu: "but i look like a bimbo" "that's precisely the idea"
asciilifeform: pink, i shit ther not, stocks, grips, straps, etc
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 21:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's so as not to stand out from the scenery when fighting on planets with pink vegetation and soil, clearly
mircea_popescu: for instance, a "conference" ; an "Agreement", other consensuses. the so and so protocol. you name it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, numerically, mit&co burned some money to try and make the dead cat bounce towards .11, failed miserably within an hour, .1 looking doubtful.
mircea_popescu: don't ask me wtf sense they';re supposed to make, i dun see it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they somehow got accepted by "scientific" efforts in ethics etc at harvard and so.
asciilifeform: ( which is what the 'whom to kill' rebuses always remind me of )
mircea_popescu: (gentle reminder : the odds of father being same race as mother is a hefty 99.5% today ; about same as it was in times and places where it was actually illegal.)
asciilifeform: can also ask the sacramental 'вилку в глаз , или в жопу раз ?'
mircea_popescu: unlike the run of the mill pantsuit, they usually don't have the canned "we don't shoot anyone" cop out
mircea_popescu: anyway, plenty of lulz to be had with the idiots. ask usgistani "extreme right" socialist flavour whether he'd shoot quadriplegic comatose septuagenarian white guy to save life of pregnant woman, race of father unknown.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was speaking of 'movement' in the pol.agitation sense, rather than 'there's gold in them hills'
asciilifeform: exclusivity applied to homo redditus gives the null set.
mircea_popescu: would you call the push west a mass movement ?
mircea_popescu: depends how you define "mass movement", if you define by the pattern then definitely.
mircea_popescu: these schmucks are not in any sense that ; they wish to "everyone", and wish it so deeply they are willing to take some COLLECTIVE limits, is all.
mircea_popescu: genuine fascists shot the fucking infirm.
mircea_popescu: there's entirely no difference between bush's "no kid left behind" and usgistani "fascist's" no derp left behind.
mircea_popescu: the principle is evident in their tracts, too. "a guide so that ~anyone~ meet girls. you're not fundamentally broken, you just miss this software". right ? the important part of socialism, preserved. or you know, "racism" but never in the sense of "you joe are no good, go away", always in th4e sense of "we are so dedicated to collectiove salvation, we want to sacrifice a soandso identified auslander collective"
asciilifeform: choose! zerocoin or zcash or ethertardium!1!
mircea_popescu: "freedom of choice" aka "we will either choose coca cola"
mircea_popescu: they have a consensus alright.
mircea_popescu: i can picture too. that tribe, like the yarvin tribe, like the yukowsky tribe, like all the "alt" bullshits, exactly like "debian was an early apple appstore" and so on.
mircea_popescu: my memory is that the summation read "o wow, you guys rock, i am very influential in my own tribe will redirect leadership tomorrow"
mircea_popescu: oh, mr. brian brainwashed her back into the inzone ?
mircea_popescu: and it's evident they both work for hitler, by all sorts of signs. remember the straggler chick that ended up in here, and found out by accident about how yiuy know, there are alternatives ?
asciilifeform: ( why are there not digital shortwave crackpot stations
mircea_popescu: hence why they are called socialists ; just as much so as their brethren pushing ourdemocracy.
asciilifeform: by all rights they oughta be using shortwave, not www
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i see it, the dersturmer+dns folx are fixated on 'pushing', i.e. 'if i use raw ip, how will audience who sits with open mouths waiting for rain, know where the replacement box lives if isp evicts'
mircea_popescu: socialists tend to worship the north apparently.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they've fixated on this "swedish system". somehow they believe the eskimo are not shit.
cazalla: it was claimed that for them to steal the .is domain, it'd have to go to parliment or some shit but they just skipped that and nuked it anyway heh
mircea_popescu: "what forced the idiot to do something stupid" orly ?
asciilifeform: the real q is what forced to steal disks etc
mircea_popescu: it'd have proven more lucrative than the outlook bs.
mircea_popescu: i didn't forbid them from growing a wot presence.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the shameful piece is that it's a forced mistake, anyone still using email-with-civilians is stuck in the google-microshit corral nao
mircea_popescu: as buggy as everything else they got.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why, because they can't do anything else right, they'll magically manage THAT one ?
asciilifeform: srsly wtf, can't just use the fritz chip like civilized stasi?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo well, also the ole "we'll need to tap your servers kthx" nonsenser.
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Qntra is down until The Republic has one or more ISP providers, latest hoster commited mortal sin of using USG.MS.EmailProvider
asciilifeform: not in the coin, bill, etc
mircea_popescu: "you telling me they couldn't falsify these ?!" "who ? a bunch of monkeys being forced to work for the first time in their lineage, at gunpoint ?"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> the obvious parallel with kanzure and dna sequencers/synths << Except this was back when you had to be Google wife rich to open a DNA startup
asciilifeform: oh hey i recall the ar museum piece
mircea_popescu: as used on banana plantations, by the rail yard etc.
mircea_popescu: i took girls to cr natl bank museum today ; in the numismatic section they had local scrip
mircea_popescu: psh. that guy didn't go around trying to get upvotes for the Minitruth facebook page.
asciilifeform: the obvious parallel with kanzure and dna sequencers/synths
BingoBoingo: This was an earlier more innocent time. Bitcoin was trading in the single digits after coming down from an all time high
asciilifeform: if usg wants asciilifeform's genomic samples, whether for phrenological nonsense or to plant on the deathray trigger that killed jfk or whichever, they can bloody well come and collect at own expense. i ain't sending any.
BingoBoingo: But that was when still on campus and suffering reality distortion bubble maintained there
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Taq1A is on of the few genetic markers with STRONG behavioral predictive relation
mircea_popescu: i will point it out that prior to say 1500, people didn't see "sioux" and "drunkedness" in same sentence either.
asciilifeform: so imho no puzzler there
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> a restatement of the old adage, "the problem with socialism is that idiots are always cocksure ; everyone else, full of doubts" << But how else would Taq1A be so successful if women didn't like making baby with drunks?
mircea_popescu: you can't make her a string of anal beads out of them ?
mircea_popescu: laziness is immediate. reason works through the mediacy of the most fragile, most expensive, least dependable mechanism known in nature.
asciilifeform: 'proof' , also note, ain't magic: there were and still somewhere are folx doubting , e.g., output of phuctor, even though all that is needed to verify is a copy of bc, python, whichever calculator, and a few min.
mircea_popescu: a restatement of the old adage, "the problem with socialism is that idiots are always cocksure ; everyone else, full of doubts"
mircea_popescu: somehow, and i have yuet to pierce this mystery, people on the side of pantsuit always assume they own the world, natively. whereas people on the side of the republic, at least verbally, always assume the opposite, and start derping about how i've to prove shit and so on.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 20:24 trinque: the feds meanwhile read like stuttery, inarticulate derps.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718383 << because they... are. and the chick's not silent because she expects to actually comandeer the fucking agents.
mircea_popescu: it's been years, the argument no longer stands.
mircea_popescu: the original reasoning was that actual high value individuals might need the fast track, for lack of you know, dissemination in their backwater barios.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718370 << incidentally, maybe time to take the webirc link off phuctor ?
asciilifeform: the spartan speaks with his... meatsword
BingoBoingo: Still, his illiteracy doesn't make Petrus any less the protagonist in the story of things that happened to David
mircea_popescu: the metrosexuals describe themselves, for lack of anyone else interested. apart from that, the victims describe the rapists and thassat.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 18:04 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718245 << As opposed to the Disgrace rewrite which didn't have much from the Petrus perspective
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718334 << well the idea there was that petrus being petrus is illiterate. not in the sense of not pretending to be able to write, but in the sense of actually not having anything to say.
asciilifeform: 'Writing in response to a tweet from technologist Mason Borda which read: "Zcash is the only altcoin (that i know of) designed and built by professional and academic cryptographers. Hard to ignore," Snowden replied, "Agree."'
asciilifeform: it's the one where they pretended to destroy the magical infinite-inflatolade-creation key
asciilifeform: comically idiotic thing, nearly made ethertardium look sane in comparison
asciilifeform: or perhaps for urban combat inside those old-school lunatic asylums where the walls were pinked...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's so as not to stand out from the scenery when fighting on planets with pink vegetation and soil, clearly
trinque: the feds meanwhile read like stuttery, inarticulate derps.
trinque: chick's gonna get out in a few years and get paid under the table, disappear
trinque: smells a lot like "hey lets get srsbsns PROOF of russian hax into the news"
a111: Logged on 2016-09-26 17:33 asciilifeform: incidentally i find it quite hilarious that three years after the snowden catalogue leak, the constellation of symptoms of rf bug illuminator victims is still Officially 'schizo'
asciilifeform: in other idiocies, https://archive.is/zI6Xm >> '... mysterious attacks that left diplomats with hearing damage and brain injuries, the State Department announced...' << somebody lock'em up in schizo ward, like they do to their victims back home, per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-26#1548698
asciilifeform: elling a... telling a lie to an FBI agent is not going to be the right thing."'
asciilifeform: in other lulz, via BingoBoingo , '"Reality, uh, you know we obviously know a lot more than... than what we're telling you at this point. And I think you know a lot more than what you're telling us at this point. I don't want you to go down the wrong road. I think you need to... to stop and think about what you're saying and what you're doing. Uhm, you know, I... I think it's a... an opportunity to maybe tell the truth. Because, uh, t
fromphuctor: ohnicethx sir, one link at a time, chugging along on the road
asciilifeform: the way you phrased the question suggests that your road to grasping the answer, is long
asciilifeform: and ~all of the mathematical work was done long before there existed such a thing as a programmable comp
fromphuctor: basically the question is what is the relationship between math and programming languages
fromphuctor: i wanted to read about the relationship between math and programming languages
asciilifeform: fromphuctor: if you're curious re phuctor, i recommend to read the faq page
asciilifeform: fromphuctor: well you picked up the microphone... so speak
asciilifeform: relatedly, is there a 'fawkes news' in britain ? and if not, why not.
BingoBoingo: And the printed documents were smuggled out in her pantyhose
BingoBoingo: In the latest from the 'Reality Winner' saga: "Accused NSA leaker was angry over Fox News always being on in the office"
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718245 << As opposed to the Disgrace rewrite which didn't have much from the Petrus perspective
asciilifeform: then it could be truly compleeet
mircea_popescu: the only fucking reason wireless exists is the dumbass "smartphones". fucking civilisation enders.
asciilifeform: who the fuck would put wireless nic in a final hop router, lol
asciilifeform: but no, neither comes with wireless nic, wtf
mircea_popescu: fuck the fucking wireless.
asciilifeform typically has separate boxes for 80211, in places where he has the latter
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'edge' has 1 usb hole , and it is inside, holds the flash stick it runs of. so not really a place to put wireless. 'pcengines' has 2 usb holes and 3 internal pci-e, plus antenna hole predrilled, so theoretically yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can they hang like 8 lan ports off the 2nd nic ? and can they not have fucking wireless, too ? DUN DUN DUN, perfect final hop router.
mircea_popescu: in fact, i'd even declare it an absolutely required bit of republican computing, as such. because it does make a first step towards the specifically stated uci goal, "location ambiguity"
mircea_popescu: so different pages in kitten's self-same browser think they're different ips.
mircea_popescu: well, i would defo buy a bunch of these if properly set up so they can be ip x in wan1 and ip y in wan2 and then establish sessions through the least decongested one at all times.
asciilifeform: trinque: theoretically they still have the port, it just dun work without amd magic key
asciilifeform: that's typically what they're used for
mircea_popescu: if it can be delivered a la FG, and it doesn't cost MUCH more than the current shits, defo.
asciilifeform wonders whether anybody would actually buy a generic fpgatronic packet eater-shitter
asciilifeform: there's no particular reason why a router oughta contain a few 100MB of unixlike, rather than, say, a few kB of fpga config.
asciilifeform: eats packet (on either end), looks at a few fields, either accepts (then rewrites a few fields and shits out of other arse) or rejects (drops on floor)
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah, but i was just making the point for his benefit that his elaborately crafted turd is not so much better than the 40 bux consumer turd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would the next one be re privesc.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-26 15:45 asciilifeform: in other lulzies, https://archive.is/roEgM >> privesc 0day : '...all versions of CentOS 7 before 1708 (released on September 13, 2017), all versions of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7 before 7.4 (released on August 1, 2017), and all versions of CentOS 6 and Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 are exploitable' << Aaaaaaand as usual linus sat on the goods since april, because 'responsible'
mircea_popescu: with the downside that you're now stuck maintaining netbsd.
asciilifeform: another pretty good one is that very same pcengines box, from ~that~ thread
asciilifeform: 64bit mips thing, there was a thread
asciilifeform: typically neither:
asciilifeform: i certainly can't bring myself to use the konsoomer crapola, when making a replacement that lasts ~forever and requires 0 nursing, is hardly even day's work
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 03:10 BingoBoingo finds it a nice change of pace to have a Trilema fiction story with so much emphasis on the protagonists
asciilifeform: well, not quite, but getting there.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-27 22:46 BingoBoingo: davout: I'm wondering if an progress was made finding Francophone datacenters outside France, preferaby in the heart of the dark continent
mircea_popescu: and in other superficialities, http://68.media.tumblr.com/63c58c530ee32ef164e9c9016ecb5a13/tumblr_njiap9j3TR1qemzxmo1_400.gif
asciilifeform: adlai: the painfully obvious way
asciilifeform: little fella. in the desert.
asciilifeform in the company of pet, who is practicing ro-fu
mircea_popescu: and in other "asian people should just be holocausted" news : piece of shit router, gets set up to work on static ip, spews out the helpful error message of "the value can't be equal". verbatim. and the source of it is a pile of inclusion gnarl so you can't even trivially debug the nonsense THAT way.
BingoBoingo finds it a nice change of pace to have a Trilema fiction story with so much emphasis on the protagonists
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/the-conference-freakshow/#selection-103.17-103.95 << 2012 pioneers of industree.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz : miicard.com. "The only way to prove you are who you say you are purely online"
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 00:24 mircea_popescu: a...ficcionados (lol) can readily resolve the problem though : douche the girl, then anally feed her a banana for buffer, then load her up in whatever flavour you favour and then proceed to dinner.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 20:53 asciilifeform: the 'let's use anything, ANYTHING but rsa' thing really grates on me.
asciilifeform: ( point was, academitards swarm around 'demonstrations of clever' glass beads rather than items that demonstrably work, as discussed in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621290 and elsewhere )
mircea_popescu: they'll "offer you" to take them and set their fat ass down in a $5mn apartment in a condo overlooking the pierre.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-26 05:09 mircea_popescu: and in other ancient lulz: https://elaineou.com/2009/04/03/advice-for-woman-seeking-500k-earning-man/
mircea_popescu: in any case tenure is not like bushels of pistachios, to be offered in trade. it's like "true love", very much of the sociopathic ilk seen in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-26#1717417
asciilifeform: the one non-negotiable demand of usg.academia, is uselessness.
mircea_popescu: because neither of these, even if wrung into acceptability in the most theoretical sense, come with any sort of even vague hope of a possibility of a guarantee of computability.
mircea_popescu: i'd propose as heuristics from this that the moment anyone proposes either a) a computable corolary of ZFC, no matter its kind or b) a computable corolary of AOC, no matter its kind, we're lost for reason.
asciilifeform: again i dun have a verdict re the verdict of $subj, all i got in my notes is 'd00d appears to have stated the problem correctly'
mircea_popescu: seems to me the main reason $item stood out to your examination is that in a sea of former fools you finally found a latter kind.
mircea_popescu: so to sum this up in our lingua franca : one kind of fool says "this confuses me and therefore must be hard". the OTHER kind of fool says "this seems immediately beautiful and to my eyes elegant and therefore must be easy".
mircea_popescu: anyway. my point is that the idea that "a practical implementation of the axion of choice always exists" is way WAY further out there than simply thje axiom of choice. WAY. because even "trivial" things (find the coprime n powers that sum to cube) are in point of FACT, know, proven, concrete poured and long dry, strictly incomputable.
asciilifeform: other than our thread here.
asciilifeform: i dun have a verdict on $article yet. will say that it is simply, afaik, the beginning and the end publicly available on the subj.
mircea_popescu: right, but what i'm saying is that the original article is much in this vein.
mircea_popescu: right, but that's the very important point there, you don't get it without mutialrtion.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no cube can be written as a sum of two co-primes raised to the power of three or above.
asciilifeform: if it's a problem in the integers, and it has an answer, it is 'possible'
asciilifeform: hey if yer gonna take 'presently impossibly difficult' to mean same thing as 'uncomputable', then sha256 is goodenuff
asciilifeform: dunno that it is a conjecture when the working set consists strictly of items you can have on a physical comp
mircea_popescu: and it requires more than that, if you step out of haskell and try to c, nonsense such as "universal computability", which falls apart the moment you are invited to do relatively "simple" things such as write cubes as sums of coprimes raised to large powers.
asciilifeform: the thing's been in my queue for a while, marked with 'determine what all of the assumptions were'
mircea_popescu: the whole zfc is still in doubt, for instance.
asciilifeform: quite possibly mircea_popescu read it at some point. but did not yet have the correct itch, to appreciate.
asciilifeform: sane discussion of the question, followed by an answer you can go with ( because if it turns out that oneway functions do NOT exist, all crypto other than otp is worthless )
asciilifeform: ( the flimflam artists who call themselves 'cryptographers' studiously avoid the subject, and will recoil in horror -- guaranteed, try it yerself -- when confronted. )
asciilifeform: ( as conjecture, rather )
asciilifeform: ^ offers a solution to the megapuzzler, but takes 'complexity classes ARE disjoint' as a lemma.
mircea_popescu: there's a pretty decent pile of lulz.
mircea_popescu: body parts seeping from the ground in a swamp and such ?
asciilifeform: picture if these imbeciles designed a body for some creature.
mircea_popescu: pattern matches, at the least.
mircea_popescu: all the people going "oh, it's against nature" have NO FUCKING IDEA whatsoever as to nature.
mircea_popescu: one of the most fascinating things about anal perversity is that the colon seems particularily eager to enter dual use regime.
mircea_popescu: a...ficcionados (lol) can readily resolve the problem though : douche the girl, then anally feed her a banana for buffer, then load her up in whatever flavour you favour and then proceed to dinner.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-28 18:29 BingoBoingo: "That's exactly the problem. Yesterday I ate a most delicious desert out of my slavegirl's own ass, directly. This dream of many previous sultans and whatnots that nevertheless couldn't ever be fulfilled effortlessly came through, for me. I didn't even much care for it either way," << TMSR problems
mircea_popescu: including the algebraic indices problem etc.
asciilifeform: ( iirc last time we had the thread, mircea_popescu dug up a few even-moar-painful complexity classes, to place the dragon into. and asciilifeform had to point out that THEIR disjointness from P is equally unproven )
mircea_popescu: the evidently philosophically correct formulation is the second, being positive not negative.
mircea_popescu: in any case, the former statement is an exercise in psychotic nonsense. how the fuck can you demand someone NOT be able to whatever.
asciilifeform: or rather, requires a proof that P!=NP...
asciilifeform: as for the subj of thread, it would also seem to asciilifeform that it in fact reduces to the P =?= NP megapuzzler.
mircea_popescu: i suppose to get fancy we're inquiring whether information is quantified. fine.
asciilifeform: that's the subject of inquiry, neh
mircea_popescu: but anyway, there's a difference between "it in principle exists" and anything useful.
mircea_popescu: "in any amount of water there's some nonzero information as to the original solutes"
mircea_popescu: for instance, the dillutionists propose a similar view of solutions.
asciilifeform: the thing is, 'knows answer ahead of time' is not an all-or-nothing. in any non-otp ( i.e. 1:1 mapping of plaintxt to ciphertxt ) there is nonzero bittage of info in ciphertext, of plaintext
mircea_popescu: "for as long as the plaintext went through alfhash, it is known as a mathematical fact, irrespecvtive of any considerations, that so many steps must be undertaken to undo it"
mircea_popescu: whereas in the correct, crypto-relevant understanding of "hash is hard", what is said is "B can make grounded promise that his effort will require at least X work"
mircea_popescu: in the common understanding of "hash is hard", what is said is "B can not make any grounded promise that his effort will require less than X work for an arbitrary item chosen by A"
asciilifeform: incidentally i just realized that von neumann had this thread. and modelled the item in shannon's terms : he asked that the ciphertext contain 0 bits of info re the plaintext. and proved that this is true if and only if you're using... otp
mircea_popescu: a modelling in which b knows the plaintext breaks this definition, and it is therefore not interesting.
mircea_popescu: the correct measurement of hash strength includes two parties, defined as : party A, which knows the plaintext and computes the hash ; and party B, which does not know the plaintext and computes it on the basis of nothing but the hash.