asciilifeform: incidentally, did we ever do the 'diskless racked box' thread ?
a111: Logged on 2017-10-12 22:11 mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the fun farms, http://78.media.tumblr.com/589660dbf388e0e58dcda2e525c10793/tumblr_no1awoaEX51urp2hro1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: that's a max, for if you fill the disk cage
asciilifeform: y'know them opterons dun actually ~pull~ those 700w here on my desk, mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: when asciilifeform was a sysop in early 2000s, the only racked item in the dc he ministered to that drew < 300 W, was a thermometer.
mircea_popescu: (mostly because they don't want to deal with its waste product)
asciilifeform: the low-wattage amd champ, incidentally, is the g-series ( as in 'pcengines', 'gizmo', and other sageprobetronic boards ) -- whole box pulls 10-20w
asciilifeform: oh hey there it is lol
asciilifeform: even if you have hammer to pound the nonfitting dimms in
asciilifeform: i read the 'non-ecc board worx fine' and can attest that it does not
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you need a mb that actually has the sockets for ecc dimms
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the fun farms, http://78.media.tumblr.com/589660dbf388e0e58dcda2e525c10793/tumblr_no1awoaEX51urp2hro1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: (note that the whole sert-up, ie that mobo, a modest am3+ chip, a coupla mem banks and some minimal diskage should draw <1oo W)
mircea_popescu: but that aside, eg ASUS M5A78L-M actually supports it through the very bios.
asciilifeform: ( you don't even strictly speaking need a u-case for it, can bolt 'ears' to the stock case )
asciilifeform: headache is in that you'd have to drill it, find heat sinks that fit, adapt the standard sliding rail ps to fit your thing, etc
asciilifeform: fabricated warez complaint or whatever nonsense will 99% of the time take out the 'exit' box and not touch the other
asciilifeform: while we're on subj -- the 'dumpster for ip, disks/cpu-horse elsewhere' gambit is (afaik pioneered, at least publicly, by mircea_popescu in mpex) imho a monumental thing
mircea_popescu: i don't specifically, but this is exactly the point here.
asciilifeform: can't hurt to have in the l0gz.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we had the fx 9500 ecc discussion like three times in the logs. they are.
asciilifeform: afaik they were all hogs
a111: Logged on 2017-10-12 21:11 mircea_popescu: once we get the above sorted out, you can pay in stripper / camwhore forum/etc posting.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: opteron means 2x the usual wattage
mircea_popescu: btw, you have to pay a lot more attention to wattage when buying further boxes.
trinque: do processing at undefined loc; do output at whichever dumpster of the week
asciilifeform: though i've contemplated plugging the one designated for phuctor, in, and running it through some cheapo 1G-of-disk rental's ip, via home pipe
asciilifeform: they dun do much good sitting here in tortureroom, no.
mircea_popescu: it helps if it also works ; but apparently utter unworkitude is not dissuading the "business" world.
trinque: items like hosted IRC, whatever other SaaS
shinohai: If, when the isp is up, we need someone to manage a znc or weechat type service I can probably manage
mircea_popescu: once we get the above sorted out, you can pay in stripper / camwhore forum/etc posting.
shinohai: Should xhamster pay me the buttcoins they owe me by end of week I'll have him back up in a jiffy.
mircea_popescu: trinque but listen, you've seen them, right ? write for indiancandy. "Here is HOW TO get paid for tits!"
mircea_popescu: once it's ready we'll get someone to hit the bimbo sites. shinohai you wanna do some work that way ? or should i have zinx hire some "Blackhat" lol.
mircea_popescu: trinque here's a thought : write me a branded single page "how to" somewhere, and ima modify the pay for your tits thing to only work with deedbot invoices. can then use it to push teh service, how's that sound ?
asciilifeform: i haven't been able to think of any practical reason to do this, so could not be moved. but anybody with copy of the db dump, can, if he feels like.
asciilifeform: ( they also display ALL keys, incl. some misformatted. theoretically one could dump entire phuctor pubkeyset , incl. Framedragger's ssh conversions, in there.. )
asciilifeform: re sks, might be lulzy to generate revokograms for phuctured keys and send to it. afaik they currently display ALL revokograms with the respective key. put whatever text you want...
mircea_popescu: maybe they had a hdd that needed repairs.
trinque: didn't bother checking all, but I don't so much suspect great firewall of MAGA as run of the mill ineptitude
mircea_popescu: whenever they noticed that trilema does 0.1% of volume gets 1/3 of keywords or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's been trying to pretend the rest of the world is writing interesting shit for the past year or so.
ben_vulpes: what's the trilema article in re "we're being probed
trinque: looks like something fucky with their DNS setup, possibly one or more of the servers in rotation is misconfigured
ben_vulpes: hey, all the other crap i've chewed through because linked here is inscrutable when i read the last chapter first
mircea_popescu: cheating is the only acceptable mode.
ben_vulpes: there is also "This key was generated as part of the Evil32 project. It is not owned by the user descrived in the UID"
trinque: ftr I get a "not found" on the above link.
mircea_popescu: so someone actually took the trouble to mine a collision ?
mircea_popescu: srsly, ppl downloading my sig from keys.gnupg.net can end up with a fake replacing the original ?
asciilifeform: btw did everybody spot how the faek was made
ben_vulpes: what in the ever loving fuck
ben_vulpes: cleared browser data and now i get the right page
mircea_popescu: reminds one of the early studio system minors battles.
mircea_popescu: sumptuouscapital lmao. wtf is wrong with these idiots. royal and empire and bs.
mircea_popescu: did you know there's a bunch of sites translating trilema and trying to sell adwords on the "content" ?
mircea_popescu: no idea what this is. whi's they ?
asciilifeform: hey mircea_popescu , didja know that they display a 'pub 4096R/2FB7B452 2014-06-16 *** KEY REVOKED *** [not verified]' ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: looks like just another sks ?
ben_vulpes: and in other misdirections: keys.gnupg.net
asciilifeform: '“Obviously source code could be used in ways that are inimical to our national interest,” Cilluffo said. “They took a principled stand, and that’s the right decision and a courageous one.”'
ben_vulpes: which reminds me "Symantec is no longer allowing governments to review the source code of its software because of fears the agreements would compromise the security of its products" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-russia-symantec/exclusive-symantec-ceo-says-source-code-reviews-pose-unacceptable-risk-idUSKBN1CF2SB
asciilifeform: 'The military has not yet identified nearly 80 percent of the 235 gigabytes of leaked data' run moar koreablowz
asciilifeform: 'One of the plans included the South Korean military’s plan to remove the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, referred to as a “decapitation” ' etc.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in the circus, 'North Korean hackers stole a vast cache of data, including classified wartime contingency plans jointly drawn by the United States and South Korea, when they breached the computer network of the South Korean military last year, a South Korean lawmaker said Tuesday.'
mircea_popescu: the variety of noob approaches to things is unennumerable.
asciilifeform: for some reason on 1st reading i pictured bots, rather than racked 'honest' boxen
asciilifeform: ( or then again could be anybody, and for some reason using his useragent, i have nfi )
mircea_popescu: aha. so there you go.
asciilifeform: ahref ! iirc accounted for 80+% of the http log lines on dulap.
mircea_popescu: i expect they do a buncha indexing or such
asciilifeform: ok then makes sense.
asciilifeform: reading the link, seems as if d00d were in it for the moneyz, rather than for own amusement in his cellar, neh
mircea_popescu: you expect if random dood on side of the road asks me if he can what ? rent my car ? girl ? take a sip of my drink?
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would he work for you, i don't get this.
asciilifeform: ask'im if he'll let a few ? or is there problem, is he weak in the head like all of the others, and only takes goldspamogram or shiterium or some other fuckknowswhatbutneverbitcoin
mircea_popescu: pretty sure they have that
a111: Logged on 2017-10-12 14:33 jurov: dear shinohai et al.: i think it's as good time as any to learn to explicitly date the signed stuff, please. so that i don't have to muck with signature innards to keep track.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-12 14:33 jurov: dear shinohai et al.: i think it's as good time as any to learn to explicitly date the signed stuff, please. so that i don't have to muck with signature innards to keep track.
mircea_popescu: teh... zinx probably hired the same people already!
asciilifeform: best part, 'People on Twitter expressed dismay at the revelation and the apparent breach in trust.' << 'people'
mircea_popescu: "oh, of course we have. WE ARE THE MOST TECHNOADEVANCED COLLECTION OF IDIOTS AND DUMB CUNTS THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWS!!1"
mircea_popescu wouldn't put it past teh excel-powered-secret-agents to have fucked up the backups, for instance.
mircea_popescu: well, when presented with knobs, twiddle them at least once.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so if logins work then just beleete it.
trinque: asciilifeform: took down my wire too, but thanks for the heads up
jurov: dear shinohai et al.: i think it's as good time as any to learn to explicitly date the signed stuff, please. so that i don't have to muck with signature innards to keep track.
asciilifeform: and who else had one of these -- ben_vulpes ?
asciilifeform: hey trinque check your boxes that had 'wires', they are probably STILL running, and trbing to it
asciilifeform: in other lulz, something closely resembling trb node on ex-dulap ( 46.166.165.30 ) still running... though i do not recommend it for any practical use
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the land of microshit, https://archive.is/45i24 >> 'There is a bug in Outlook that causes S/MIME encrypted mails to be send in encrypted and unencrypted form...'
BingoBoingo: *who the customer is being dumped onto
BingoBoingo: In other lulz from first HK to wake up: iAdvantage Software, Inc. Parent Company: American Agricultural Services, Inc.
BingoBoingo: "I press the button, it shoots out beams and gives a speed" "But how do the beams give a speed" "They just do"
BingoBoingo: Officer could also offer no answer to "What is the doppler effect" "What is cosine error" "What is cosine" "When was patrol vehicle spedometer calibrated"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Officer admitted on the stand he was using radar device in a manner inconsistent with its labelling and contrary to NHTSA standards has not been certified in radar use since the 1990's
mircea_popescu: just had this 3kg apple pie come out of the oven so i have trouble feeling for radioshack-of-the-day
BingoBoingo: That's what they try to sell. They mostly end up selling tools (Which they sold to Stanley Black and Decker) and lawnmowers. Also assorted catalog novelty schlock other retailers won't touch
mircea_popescu: i thought they mostly sold overpriced japanese watches and bad kitchenware.
asciilifeform: in very very other olds, http://jeanjacques.lacrampe.free.fr/webada/doc/gnat/gcc_10.html#SEC316 << -fpreserve-control-flow flag indeed appears to work ( but only up to -O1 )
BingoBoingo can't believe it's only another 5 hours until the latest round of "Who wants to fleece a Gringo" emails pour in
BingoBoingo: Well, probably a natural fit for the typical target market
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> did anyone else want reddit accounts ? << If they are anything like mine comes with bonus long walk to sanity through personal transformation
mircea_popescu: is that the fertile soil of afghanistan, from back in the day a different empire was going there to die ?
BingoBoingo smells 30% chance of newcomer private key paste in the wind
mircea_popescu: that's the whole point, by proving you can decrypt something encrypted to your key you prove you are you.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Could be they decide Baden Powel was racis and colonialist, and Charlottesville his statues
asciilifeform: loox like usa simply aligning with classic su ( and german ) tradition, where there's 1 org
BingoBoingo: shinohai: You don't understand. Two completely seperate organizations. The girl scouts are already threatening lawyers!
shinohai: Well see BingoBoingo, I figure its only a matter of time before they DO allow cookie sales and boys to wear brownie uniforms if they wish.
BingoBoingo: In other, lesser struggles in the republic: I now have to decide if I care enough to contest speeding ticket in Appelate court
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i guess it was decided that they have arses like anybody, ergo compatible
BHopkins: It just says "Get your OTP" and then gives me a key. What do I do with that key?
mircea_popescu: BHopkins say /query deedbot then say !!up to it and decrypt its challenge.
mircea_popescu: mmm. it's not a matter of sharing expertise as such. it's a matter of breaking the fake media, let's say.
shinohai: Ah Yahoo .... I was able to upload a BEeF hook inside an ad there once, no one batted an eye.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're mostly all based on user idiocy, clicks links ends up windows'd.
asciilifeform: ( somehow, not hosting arbitrary js/flasholade isn't an option for these, go figure )
mircea_popescu: you mean other than a bevy of the younger "journalist" interns realising they're wasting their time in office clothes in new york and joining me naked in costa rica ?
BHopkins: If not cleaning up the negative aspects of the search results, what would be your end goal?
mircea_popescu: given the situation in the field, interviews are probably the only workable approach.
mircea_popescu: no, traditionally the job is to either get interviews placed if the client is smarter than the press, or else to get reviews/testimonials/etc placed if the press is smarter than the client.
mircea_popescu: BHopkins nah. i personally couldn't care less about "bad" things. for one thing, i've yet to meet the entity intelligent to say something meaningfully bad about me.
mircea_popescu: it gives human flesh to the bitcoin steel skeleton.
asciilifeform still not sure how (other than ceremonial aspect) this mechanism beats sending coins the old-fashioned way, from own actual node -- but it's still neat that trinque built a thing sturdy enough to run with coin
BHopkins: I almost feel a little dirty not playing by the conventional rules of money :)
asciilifeform: they stood a chance?!
BHopkins: Nope, no bitcoin yet for me. But I've worked with a few other companies in this industry over the years.
BHopkins: As for my recommendation, we're not trying to educate the general public through the search results. What we want to do is ensure they only find positive information when the search for a keyword.
BHopkins: I've worked in this vertical a few different times, along with other verticals that have similar issues.
mircea_popescu: here's the gist of the problem : when rando, such as for instance bill lawsky, stands up and says "we made these rules" bla bla, nobody in those verticals springs up the obvious "what proof do you have". if i say "i destroyed ETH/BCH/whatever, and here's the proof" the same nobodies come up with contorted nonsense like "ok but what proof do you have your proof is proofing?!?!?"
BHopkins: Much better...In a nutshell, we do what gets results and what works. Sometimes that is high quality content, but other times, it's lower quality link building.
mircea_popescu: let us rephrase then. "whereas the perception in silicon valley spam farms, like facebook, huffpo, reddit, wikipedia etc".
mircea_popescu: aha. so : there's a bit of mismatch here, whereby the republic is powerful and rich, whereas the perception in usg owned peon farms is disjunct.
BHopkins: Exactly! We suppress negative listings and replace them with positive and controllable assets.
mircea_popescu: so this orm thing... is it what they call old style media agencies ? a sort of ogilvy&mather for the internet age ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same here lmao. girl's been raising hell over there apparently.
asciilifeform: ( 'but what about the even # of subunits in fg itself? ' -- that's what the red lamp, and much of the internal logic, is about )
asciilifeform: ( tangentially, asciilifeform disrecommends the use of even numbers of XORed rngs in any system. incl. FGs. if enemy can somehow contrieve to tie the wires together, you will end up with 0,0,0.... )
asciilifeform: if the number of generators is odd, the xor cannot make you worse off than before even if somehow they all became identical. however if even 1 of them is genuinely independent, you get the strength of that one. is what the 'ratchet' aspect of the xor is about.
mircea_popescu: not assume independence, not merely outsource the burden of proof to government, etc.
asciilifeform: the 1 thing we have from von neumann's proof, however, other than otp per se, is the xor primitive, which provably composes N ~independent~ items of variant hardnesses, into the hardness of hardest input.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but have to keep astrology classes separate. then within any class, yes value function=1 for all items.
mircea_popescu: eg caesar cipher, as discussed in http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto/#footnote_0_49969 is known-upper-bound, known-average-case etcetera.
asciilifeform: afaik yer either in 'it's astrology, so hire cheapest' mode or yer not - tertium non datur
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 00:14 mircea_popescu: whereas in the correct, crypto-relevant understanding of "hash is hard", what is said is "B can make grounded promise that his effort will require at least X work"
mircea_popescu: and also worth nothingt that known-weak items usually are known in the hard crypto sense, of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718087
a111: Logged on 2017-10-11 16:41 asciilifeform: i dun buy the 'no one has proven rsa to be hard so it dun matter how to implement it, let's use wet noodles and dried shit' argument.
mircea_popescu: for completeness, re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1723997 : the reason this is an entirely spurious objection is that we're not discussing known-weak vs unknown-how-hard items but straight up unknown-hardness vs unknown-hardness.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 03:49 asciilifeform: i just counted gpg 1.4.10 : 156,436 loc -- and that ain't counting the autoconf liquishit, or the libs it pulls in
asciilifeform: in very other lulz, at most recent count 'p' stands at 3.2kloc, of which 2k is ffa ( this is inclusive of comments, tests, and commented alt-incarnations of certain routines, as discussed in l0gz )
asciilifeform: not in compliance and require that the company pay a penalty for each, which can total to €500,000 or more'
asciilifeform: various lulz from same, e.g. https://archive.is/D1gJA >> ' McHardy first approaches a company to tell it that its product is not in compliance; he makes a modest demand (say €6,000-7,000) for his engineering time. He also asks the company to acknowledge and sign his cease-and-desist order; under German law that turns it into a contract. Once that has been done, sometime later McHardy will come back with other products that are also
mircea_popescu: "LibrePlanet was held March 25-26 in Cambridge, Massachusetts at the Stata Center on the campus of MIT." << whole story.
asciilifeform: ( same derps as hosted the koch talk linked earlier, loox like )
mircea_popescu: incidentally, by now the tmsr schadenfreunde is probably peaking. all sorts of wanna-be groups that "have been doing it for longer" and bla bla.
asciilifeform: in other 'we'll steal from tmsr, why not, and WEDIDITFIRST' lulzies, https://archive.is/kvyXQ
BingoBoingo: That happens at later screening. The igarment.net people seem too impressively targeted to be Telestra so far.
mircea_popescu: so you'd think. but then how many esl azns do you bed, cuz nobody speaks the truth outside the bedroom.
BingoBoingo: Eh, there's still some pretty legit spelling azns working on making numbers
mircea_popescu: meanwhile teh jewsuitis run all the things.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo basically, the difference between orcs and niggers is that the niggers know they're niggers, the orcs still have delusions.
mircea_popescu: in the sense the 1985 market was similar to that from 1975, except all the "make your own computer" boxes were now made by ibm
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: sorta like comp market in 1995 was superficially similar to walking into one from '85, except for the detail where all of the 'different comps you can CHOOSE from' run microshit on x86
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh, the little wolverine huh. she's one spirited hussy.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i run into these continuously
mircea_popescu: scratch the surface of "diversity" and "World of choice" juyst a little, admire the self-same oroborus maggot.
asciilifeform tried, and failed, to distinguish linked site from the usual inmate-fat-powered spamulag
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is a valid (1 more message)
asciilifeform: can also sum how much they 'dun make' at nasdaq; and while we're at it, how much fish they don't have at the proverbial sov fish counter
mircea_popescu: should i have said " how much dough the etsy chicks don't make" ?
mircea_popescu: and if anyone was wondering how much dough the etsy chicks make, and which ones, and out of what exactly, http://www.craftcount.com/category.php?cat=3&subcat=4
mircea_popescu: the proper equivalent of "he has either x of q or y or p but not both" is equivalent to "i only use p, and he has an x but IT IS NEVER THE X HE NEEDS haha! take that bitch! murphy works for me!"
mircea_popescu: if you do not, your hallucination of added security comes from your own arbitrary imposition of further constraints on attacker ; NOT from actual security.
mircea_popescu: now it should be apparent : in the first case you let attacker have X of Q. in the second case, you MUST let him have X of Q and Y of P.
mircea_popescu: here's what you move to : "I have a Q and a P". here's the correct statement : "Of all the possibles that may exist, Q and P, I have both".
mircea_popescu: here's how you state the story : "I have a Q". here is the correct statement : "Of all the possible Q that could ever exist, I have Q, the one and sole and only."
mircea_popescu: lobbes how the fuck is bringing watermelons supposed to be discriminatory ? he wasn't gonna let the white guys have any ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevermind that waste of time/effort. think : when you say http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724006 you are actually imposing further conditions on the attacker than the null case.
shinohai: lobbes: They were prolly pissed because he didn't bring a bucket of KFC too
asciilifeform: which then gets used as otp per mircea_popescu's original algo.
asciilifeform: there's no 'plaintext of stream'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform point there was that enemy will have access to some plaintext of each stream.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-11 14:25 phf: but at the same time it's handy strawman: ~web of trust~ is broken, because our take on it is a piece of shit. i thought that's some pantsuit pattern discussed elsewhere
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : sad story of non-tmsr wot implemented by heathens. 60k or so ratings totally exchanged, item collapsed into uselessness. why ? because not had and therefore not observed the http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ bible.
mircea_popescu: and in other (lengthy) lulz : i cursed new girl with the old mpoe-pr curse, if you haven't guessed by now. the tardstalk this time is "black hat world", dedicated to "seo" and shit.
asciilifeform: ground rule of crypto is that enemy has access to ciphertext and the occasional bit of plaintext ( guessed. ) if he has access to inside of your box we ain't doing cryptology, it is called perimeter defense
mircea_popescu: you rpopose to move to situation two, where there's two streams AND YOU ALSO PROPOSE to not permit enemy to know 500bytes of each stream. why not ?
mircea_popescu: look. situation 1, there's one stream, and enemy knows 1kb.
asciilifeform: see the otp thread
asciilifeform: knowing xor tells you 0 about what went into the xor.
mircea_popescu: but that nothing is entirely predicated of assumptions on how exactly "knowledge of segment" translates into the new world.
asciilifeform: ftr i dun particularly like this style of mechanism. it is suggested solely as continuation of the theme from linked thread, where 'make best of a cpu-poor situation with existing algos'
asciilifeform: proposed mechanism is applicable to 'stacking' any but the most screamingly rubbish prng. elementarily if the seeds are independent ( and they are, having been birthed from FG, ideally even from separate physical units ) the value of the streams at whatever index are also uncorrelated; and the xor will have period no shorter than of the longest period prng.
mircea_popescu: leaving us with this situation where "a different hash function" is not even a meaningful mathematical construction.
asciilifeform: after 3 generations of dried dog shit, quite conceivably the last actual crytoanalyst ate nagant 30yrs ago.
mircea_popescu: yet nevertheless, the "g is a different hash function from f" "how do we know ?" "because george named his g and florence named hers f" is nonsense.
asciilifeform: i dun buy the 'no one has proven rsa to be hard so it dun matter how to implement it, let's use wet noodles and dried shit' argument.
mircea_popescu: and so in certain context, such as this one, the correct assumption...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't have the proof it is, but that's irrelevant. you don't have the proof IT ISNT.
mircea_popescu: that was the point of all those galois fields discussions recently.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't know it's ACTUALLY different ; the expression sounds different, but there's a clear modulo space / elliptic curve relation.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu has the proof that 'all the same' quite a few folx would be interested to read.
mircea_popescu: discrete curves, diophantine equations, it's all the fucking same.
mircea_popescu: and this isn't a joke : the "distinction" between rsa and ecc, whereby "ecc is faster" or "has longer effective key" is bs. ECC is exactly RSA in polar coordinates, if either fails mathematically both do.
mircea_popescu: to recapitulate for the noobs : the converse of "we have no strong security models for hash functions" does ALSO imply that we CAN NOT DISTINGUISH THEM.
asciilifeform: let's take however the variant where they all use same type of hash (e.g. keccak) but with independently FG-generated seeds. you still remove the i+i==H(i) known-relation problem.
asciilifeform: who said i had 1 much less n to offer with this recipe. i learn from the masters!11
mircea_popescu: well how. if hash function is preimage weak, they all will be.
asciilifeform: each one in particular runs as mircea_popescu's old algo does. the otps, however, are xored to form the otp that gets used in the end.
asciilifeform: you can trivially prove that, for crypto break (vs e.g. side chans) enemy must break either a) all of the rsagrams b) all of the hashes
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. so instead of one item with the above three problems, i now have three, and they're hashed together. so ?
asciilifeform: also eliminates the problem where there is a known relation between adjacent pieces of ciphertext where plaintext is known
a111: Logged on 2016-02-10 19:29 asciilifeform: (incidentally, the problem of an inner cipher introducing known-plaintextisms is solved routinely by splitting the payload into xor-able halves, using rng, and enciphering each ~half~ with different cipher, rather than box-in-box composition)
asciilifeform: it buys you same thing http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-10#1402315 buys you -- strength of the strongest one
mircea_popescu: other than more complexity, what's this buy me ?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-06 23:13 mircea_popescu: basically the scheme is, you rsa a random bitfield, then you expand that into as much otp as you want by doing recursively Fi = hash(bitfield + Fi-1). there's a limit on i, obviously, which can be set to 1.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu i had a thought re your http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1722036 algo : instead of one stream generator, have N independent ones (each with own seed, and not necessarily all same hash fn) running in parallel, xor together. every rsagram changes a seed in ONE of these at a time. strength is bought by sending rsagrams moar often
mircea_popescu: it's a good thing the human rights crowd informs us "everyone wants to be and is an individual", because from experience i'd never have arrived at the idea.
mircea_popescu: quite exactly, it's never futurism as the 1920s artistic blaseness. it's always "i will r entrepreneurize" or "i will marry well" or such, translated in the new paints.
mircea_popescu: phf just about same here. i particularily enjoy situations where the "group expert" in "new trends" brings bitcoin to the group. particularily if 20something female.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
phf: asciilifeform: well to do middle aged ru dentist types talked to me of bitcoin mining with a "please explain what the hell is going on". it's very much the opposite of the beobachter take, still as lulzy.