mircea_popescu: right, and he survived because he scared them off. laissez.
asciilifeform: and later was given cia medal ( afaik the only runaway to be awarded )
mircea_popescu: ro did europe, mostly, kgb did us, mostly. they interoped.
mircea_popescu: ro didn't really have agents in the us.
asciilifeform: they sent whole ro kgb residentura in usa packing, neh
asciilifeform: the sailor afaik just wanted out
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wait, and the sailor did not ?
asciilifeform: because they're seeking welfarola.
asciilifeform: it was able to exist when the wall was reasonably tight.
mircea_popescu: i don't think this subject of your nostalgia ever existed outside the vhs world. it's like muller.
asciilifeform: ( even despite the 'being someone' point, consider that 1 sailor who jumped from sov ship. usa did not send him back... )
asciilifeform: generally noobs are advised to read the log for a spell, before considering whether they have something to say
asciilifeform must invoke herr babbage, 'i cannot rightfully apprehend the confusion of ideas...'
asciilifeform: normally i would assume fromloper does not know about the log ( even though log is linked in subj line of #trilema ...! )
asciilifeform: fromloper: could readily answer the question with your own hands. why do you ask people to do the work of machine for you ?
mircea_popescu: well how do you know what they dream etc.
mircea_popescu: well in this sense whole dnc long defected to china, moved desperately to prevent ru-us rapproachment back in the early days of 2016 when sitll possible.
mircea_popescu: what exactly could you possibly use one for ? not like they even have the usual value of "stolen documents", i guarantee you if you examed the O-paygrade you'd find not a single soul as well informed as the famous contractor/defector.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can't think of a competent anyone in the whole us army/navy/airforce brass.
asciilifeform: fromloper: who goes there
asciilifeform: su found a use for martin&mitchell. and buncha other similars. even for oswald, lol
mircea_popescu: buncha defectors since korean war to china, but ... not nearly the same interest.
mircea_popescu: it's not common for eg greeks or italians to go crazy over "the beatles", they simply make a local band like that and that's it.
mircea_popescu: the equivalent population does not exist, it's an epiphenomenon of collapsed colonies, like argentina, like america.
mircea_popescu: you'\re still missing the important point. usg is looking for a brand to show its large citizenry. much like every attempt to hold a tech fconference in argentina degenerates into a bunch of local tards speaking/stepping over each other to blather meaninglessly in the hope of thereby attaining a certificate of humanhood from the foreigners,
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that soviet military man valuable ; chinese valuable ; romanian evidently valuable. what value does us tard bring ?
asciilifeform: it is when the folx on ~other end~ buy you plane ticket. or for that matter whole plane. and villa. etc
asciilifeform: rather than simply i buy a plane ticket.
asciilifeform: ( plenty of folx from, e.g., ru, living and working in cn. but i am speaking of ~defectors~, as in 'i'd rather have a flat in pekin than continue as lt. colonel at nsa ' )
mircea_popescu: not usually advertised, but the expat community large indeed.
asciilifeform: afaik feeling is quite mutual : to my knowledge no white man to date defected, properly speaking, to the rice kingdom
mircea_popescu: nah. it's already very much siberia as far as they're concerned.
asciilifeform: china would make penal colony there, or something useful.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738408 << at the risk of repeating ancient thread, imho if there were a ready alternative ( as in geographic , rather than merely ideological ) to usa, for the remaining ~functional people to defect to -- usa wouldn't last a week
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUfeuosbeJg << 1968 speech. "invasion a mistake and inconceivable outrage" most of the applause THAT time is genuine. "no justification available and no reasoning may be accepted" and so on.
mircea_popescu: kinda why the whole ww2 made him so trotsky-sensitive, too.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the long run, stalin's internationalism proved the terribly wrong strategy. shoulda went with trotsky.
asciilifeform: also he had an actual nation, properly speaking, and made full use of the fact
asciilifeform: not much of a talker, but he was quick enuff on his feet ( pointedly unlike the su gerontocrats )
mircea_popescu: but anyway, in spite of an inability to speak in public, or to make sense, extemporaneously or not, ceausescu was a major player in the status quo of 70s and 80s. that whole "don't mix into the affairs of others", very strong nationalism, managed to paralyze the us-owned and hosted un for two decafdes.
a111: Logged on 2014-07-28 19:19 asciilifeform: 'Learn not to participate - to the point of utter impossibility of meeting the enemy 'half-way' - and you will see that inside there lay a very useful mindfuck: in learning to 'nonparticipate,' in fact you drew out your *will* from its scabbard - to which it seemed so securely riveted by your upbringing. The appearance of *your will* changes everything and forever. With your own will slipped into your boot knife
asciilifeform: against the mcbeast.
asciilifeform: but the moar i dig into ro , the more astonishing the level of fight it was able to put up
mircea_popescu: the latter needed moar size ; the former a better ideology. evidently worked for eg china, so there is some tolerance.
asciilifeform: ideology is the only working pill against 'market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent'
mircea_popescu: (closed here means "without externalities" rather than anything else)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-07 22:59 asciilifeform: this is the fate of all 'we don't have an ideology' derps
mircea_popescu: the over-reaching all-important point is that had the dudes of 1985 produced an ideologically-closed system, by 1995 there'd have been a WHERE for people to go, other than windows.
mircea_popescu: until macrosensible nobody even in bad dreams considers the cancer a threat.
asciilifeform: the 'mouse spores' were indeed, yes, present
mircea_popescu: thjat is the ~only token re windows.
mircea_popescu: that made them exist.
mircea_popescu: that final "all the better" being the republic part. they failed to construct this system whereby extreme violence applied to everyone else was a net positive, in and of itself, for no other reason.
asciilifeform: the 2 were not contemporaneous.
asciilifeform: the winblowz item still strikes me as anachronistic, rather like the supposition that men killed tyranosaur.
mircea_popescu: and if this takes putting a few million instagramers on stakes, ALL THE BETTER.
mircea_popescu: and thereby, an ivory on every desk not a fucking windows.
mircea_popescu: the important point is to be able to make the world make fucking sense against the constant yelps of the idiots who want the world to be comfortable.
asciilifeform: but originally -- worked. or how do you suppose the 'ivies' got, and stayed, fat.
asciilifeform: superficially their scheme works to this day -- i.e. 'you can elect anyone you like, but he'll be a harvaprinceyalton graduate, muhahaha'
mircea_popescu: there were two groups worth the mention during "golden age" of europe : mechants, and scholars. the prime characteristic of either ? immune to common law process!
mircea_popescu: but leaving these proper statements aside -- never mind the civilisational aspect, limit yourself to culture. they might've bothered to realise the only enemy is the taxpayer, moved to limit his impact on government. exactly as the medieval collegiate disputes flew.
mircea_popescu: ("oh, romanian gymnasts!!!" "yeah, right. you are aware none of the girls actually wanted to be there, yes ?")
asciilifeform: ^ as depicted in stephensen's 'anathem' aha !
asciilifeform: the fact that it was solar-powered ?
mircea_popescu: so ? who made it that way, king bohemius the 9th ?
mircea_popescu: nope. they drag the local barristas into the campus by the hair to be raped for a weekend at a time.
asciilifeform: they move to amish countryside and make lispms out of grass ?
mircea_popescu: same way the same exact item opened cannon fire at the "taxpayers" from atop the walls of oxford.
asciilifeform: re ai lab -- mircea_popescu how do you picture a buncha taxpayer-funded academics not-'failing-to-republic' , hypothetically ?
mircea_popescu: nytimes also didn't "picture itself in competition with the weird net kids". and so following, chuck e cheese dude's "ipad restaurant" didn't see itself in competition with phones. "it's a restaurant". no it's not.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the matter was fluid in 1980. could have been.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:43 mircea_popescu: no conception of who the enemy is and why exactly, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: i could reinterpret the objection in the terms of "mit ai lab had no common ideology", a copacetic statement of "they failed to republic" which is exactly what i meant by http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738294 and so on.
asciilifeform: re (b) neither of'em was pictured as in same market at all, any moar than pepsicola
mircea_popescu: not altogether clear how self-serving that was.
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, he was the proverbial nursing home patient described on trilema, who says 'died, whaddayamean, died, where is jane?! we were USED to her' re every colleague who went off to bolix or lmi
mircea_popescu: phf in the sense that they were trying to sell the machines, but avoid as much of the dev work as humanly possible ?
phf: mircea_popescu: i was taking a poetic liberty there. it's the new appearance of a self serving strategy where there wasn't necessarily one (or the strategy changes drastically). the core of activity shifts elsewhere, but the original points of contact are maintained for the sole purpose of taking any new ideas that might've been introduced.
mircea_popescu: control as the psychological construct is complicated.
mircea_popescu: i suspect he was a bureaucrat (intellectually insufficient ; aware of this ; politically ambitious) and he resented the lack of control over smarter people.
asciilifeform: mit was never in the business of selling comps
asciilifeform: it was never clear to me from rms's surviving writing what he thought mit ought to have done with the lispm, if not to license to manufacturers
mircea_popescu: plurious agents can own the same idea in the mannger they can have the same girlfriend. knowing about it not required.
asciilifeform: greenspun, on other hand -- was
mircea_popescu: it is particularily difficult to explain what one means by theft of a) ideal objects by b) parties who actually own them intellectually and c) when the objects were produced within their lifetimes.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:10 asciilifeform: apeloyee: the other thing to consider, is that the preserved bolix material has ~unspeakably~ rich ( and quite high snr ) collection of artifacts, perhaps 1000 asciilifeform-years of work. take the ns vlsi compiler alone. i have the binaries, but not the src. and ~someone~ will have to make a sane (i.e. fully lispified and zero-externals) vlsitron.
asciilifeform: rms was not ,in so far as i can tell, involved in the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738171 aspects )
asciilifeform: none of the code in question -- at least in so far as it is accessible to modern archaeologist's eye -- was particularly deep
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i had the same impression. social not technological issue.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:43 mircea_popescu: it was involved as mental poison in these people's heads.
mircea_popescu: the attempt might well illustrate why i meant above re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738293 (o oops, i stoled myself!)
mircea_popescu: im not even sure what theft means in this context.
phf: well, rms's nervous break down makes some sense when you actually read the code. there's a very obvious clear "steal everything that's not bolted" going on. cadr's SYSTEM sources were being developed in parallel with symbolics and LMI (to the point that there are conditionals in the cadr's code to compile os both on lmi and genera), with interactions slowly decreasing over time
asciilifeform: ( died with the sunken atlantis, nothing afaik heard of it since 1990 )
mircea_popescu: phf i had the idea cadr more of a common ancestor, to smbx too.
mircea_popescu: amusingly bucharest had nfi idea at the time it COULKD have done such a thing. literally 0 conception of what any of the items we're discussing here WERE. at all. not even the priors present.
phf: it's funny that 36xx series is basically an improved cadr. ivory on the other hand? literally scheme86: they poached both the main guy who worked on the cpu ~and the entire toolset~. ivory was still designed on CADR (rather than smbx), because that's where scheme team designed theirs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something deeply wrong with response to mother shrieking about her daugher being fucked diverging from beating mother up / fucking her too. but... we digress.
asciilifeform: 'must hide my theft'
phf: well, folx in question plundered as much as they could from mit and carefully guarded whatever they themselves produce. i don't know about there not being "logical reason to publish"
asciilifeform: they were ~same as su academics , in that respect
mircea_popescu: no conception of who the enemy is and why exactly, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: it was involved as mental poison in these people's heads.
asciilifeform: mit was not involved other than as patent licensor/troll at that point
asciilifeform: ( can't even say i have any outrage over this, there was no logical reason to publish )
asciilifeform: plenty of unanswered q's re the arch.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wish i knew ! sorta why i wanted the thing microscopied.
asciilifeform: but modern silicon instead gets 2million transistors for motherfucking tlb cache so that winblowz can page less.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what did they use as hardware hash ?
asciilifeform: asciilifeform ( and quite a few other folx, i suspect even earlier ) realized in ~2005 that it was eminently practical with modern silicon
mircea_popescu: he's now at describing the mindbogglingly ugly hacks of how to get 32 bit fixnums out of 36 bit words with 6 bits of tag and 2 of code and so on, "oh actually the lowe order quarter can be repurposed"
asciilifeform: item grew as the iron became available ( i do not even say 'affordable' , thing was a 'cost no object' design, like aston-martin )
asciilifeform: fwiw the 3600 series ( pre-ivory ) were 36b
asciilifeform: as it is 40b broke the back.
asciilifeform: and no such thing as untagged, on whole box. that was the whole strength of the edifice.
mircea_popescu: "oh, couldn't be done on hardware of back then". tell you what, fucking your wife also couldn't be done on your hardware of back when junior high.
asciilifeform: there was ONE size of word
mircea_popescu: whatr the fduck is he even talking about, "tagging every word". fucker, small words hardly worth tagging! make your word 4096 bits, tag THAT.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform typical pc has the following situation : 64 bit registers, 128 bit memory, 1024 bit disk sectors, 64 mb video buffers, and atop sitting a drunk driver who thinks 8 bits are a byte.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because you ~never read one bit. that's the issue here, whole fucking hardware is built around nonsense. nobody reads 1 bit ; and for most applications 1 byte (ie, 64 bits!) is actually an underbyte.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how is a 1GB ram chip store the 2^30 bits ?
asciilifeform: what's the use of simultaneously lighting up a whole line, simply to blow the clock cycle on reading 1 bit ??
mircea_popescu: but this is spuriosity. let it feed out... the whole line.
mircea_popescu: now suppose i want to read some of this memory. what happens is that the controller reads A WHOLE LINE, and then selects from it the bit i wanted and spits it out.
asciilifeform: but even with the widest, you will need quite a few to make machine with, e.g., 8192-bit word. ( and your cpu now needs 8192bit regs 0
asciilifeform: at one time they were uncommon, and a stick of memory tended to have as many chips as the bus bitness
asciilifeform: ( e.g. 0000000000000000 input gives you the first of'em )
mircea_popescu: consider if you wrote/read the disk/net/video 1mb at a time.
asciilifeform: i have noted in the past that it is possible to have, e.g., wider regs but fewer of'em
asciilifeform: there being a relationship at all, comes from the fact that the two types of bucket regularly get emptied into one another
mircea_popescu: no, i am asking why exactly is one item unrelated to another item married to it.
asciilifeform: well orig q was 'why is there a relationship' but seems like mircea_popescu is really asking 'why pc regs so tiny'
asciilifeform: ( they are only reflected in iron at all, on 'optimized for c' abortions where have 'iron pagetable' )
mircea_popescu: in this model they are. memory (ram, disk, whatever -- comes in pages)
asciilifeform: mult is necessarily 2b wide ( where b is the reg bitness )
asciilifeform: let's suppose the contrary
mircea_popescu: for one thing, historical concept of pages seems to suggest that the relationship is exactly of the nature of "byte=octet, we're dumb".
mircea_popescu: why, again, is there a relation between cpu register bit width and memory-allocation-unit bit width ?
asciilifeform: i dun either
asciilifeform: ( src, another d00d who was there, infamous crackpot http://fare.livejournal.com/168016.html )
asciilifeform: ividual bought the assets and Kalman spent 4 years as a "captive consultant" for him. Since 2002, when he ran out of money, I've worked for Ab Initio (doing nothing with lisp except emacs hacks).'
asciilifeform: Kalman was hired after that by Symbolics Technology, Inc., who had acquired the assets of Symbolics from the bankruptcy court, to work on further productizing the emulator for the Alpha. This was used by John Mallery at MIT to run his document distribution system for the White House during the Clinton presidency. When the owners of that venture decided that a financial company had no business owning a computer company, a private ind
asciilifeform: 'Kalman Reti worked for Symbolics from 1982 through 1992, mostly on VLSI tools for Ivory but also writing low-level device support (e.g. a LMFS recovery utility, R/W optical drive support, LZW compressor, etc.) The last few years of that were spent doing customer consulting. After being laid off when Symbolics went into chapter 11, Kalman worked for Apple in Cambridge, first on MCL and later, after MCL was sold to Digitool, on Dylan.
ben_vulpes: fwiw google makes their robotranscripts available over http
mircea_popescu: i know a bunch of imbeciles who should speak a lot more hesitatingly than this guy. such as for instance ~everyone not-white. somehow, they don't, going all the way to like obama daring to even open his mouth in public.
asciilifeform: maybe he knew that the money were running out, lol
mircea_popescu: what is with all these people!
asciilifeform: iirc d00d doesn't exactly speak the king's englisch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc there was a captioned version on youtube. but seems to have evaporated.
mircea_popescu: reti's speech. wtf is with the sound only bs.
asciilifeform: i'm missing the proper letter on this particular terminal anyway lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know it's traditionally spelled ceausescu. there's no soft c in romanian, esp not next to e.
asciilifeform: the bolix people fit a complete lisp-to-silicon system in less space than taken by original 'wolfenstein' .
asciilifeform: and with ~zero~ overflowandcrashlang 'legacy' crapolade in the stack.
asciilifeform: ( they had to be )
asciilifeform: by all indications, they were pretty effective -- but, far more importantly -- extremely compact.
asciilifeform: just as ceaucescu was content to 'steal' vlsi from the decaying west, i am perfectly content to steal the algos from bolix.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: the other thing to consider, is that the preserved bolix material has ~unspeakably~ rich ( and quite high snr ) collection of artifacts, perhaps 1000 asciilifeform-years of work. take the ns vlsi compiler alone. i have the binaries, but not the src. and ~someone~ will have to make a sane (i.e. fully lispified and zero-externals) vlsitron.
mircea_popescu: and so on, a whole host of, centrally, the same thing. a sort of iliterate solipsism.
mircea_popescu: it's the fundamental orcism, this. expressed pluriously by the orcs now inhabiting the once-proud colonies. "you couldn't know as you haven't experienced". really, bitch ? what the fuck DO YOU THINK KNOWLEDGE EVEN IS!
mircea_popescu: or for that matter, the page.
asciilifeform: ( consider -- if the 'meaning can be had from context', why is the word even there on the page ? )
mircea_popescu: the only answer is no.
mircea_popescu: "could you guess from context what the unknown word means ???"
a111: Logged on 2015-07-05 23:53 asciilifeform: or that other thread, which i can't seem to find, where we spoke of how 'maths wot is not essential for being published, but for even having publishable ideas instead of burning your life on fibonacci sequences or some other solved/irrelevant dead end'
asciilifeform: this is the inevitable doom of people who will not read.
phf: apeloyee: i have a friend who periodically attempts to write his own programming language, but without reading any documentation. when i ask him, hey, why not read lisp in small pieces or something, he just goes "well, i'm going to learn something just by trying", which i recently realized is straight up american education model. there's nothing that comes out of it though, he just keeps banging his head against solved problems!
asciilifeform: i dun normally recommend 'screen films' but there is simply no other way to properly summarize what bolix was.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: ever see the infamous kalman reti film ? ( http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-16#925610 mirror still seems to work )
asciilifeform: 'emperor' drinks same flavoured water as the prole, today.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if 'coke' dies, 'pepsi' will reign, the basic idea remains
mircea_popescu: alternatively, beer is swill to begin with, and esp the alt-flavoured sprite they sell in the us.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> of course reality caught up with poor shoemaker's imagination, and today's 'emperors' indeed have not only front porches but armchair with tv with foxnoose, and refrigerator full of 'bud' << The local noise is dominated by 'bud' sales freefalling. Popular yet unverifiable by me theory is lack of once much marketed 'Born on date' discontinued by the Brazilians is letting retailers and wholesalers keep rancid product on
asciilifeform: apeloyee: but on the other hand any attempt to build a sane arch, without fully grasping the bolix stack, from ic to the compiler, is lunacy.
apeloyee: then...?
apeloyee: do you like the 'ivory' architecture so much?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 14:55 asciilifeform: in sadder noose, cheapest bolix ivory microscopy quote, chinese, that covers all the layers ( metal and passivation ) is ~30,000 usd.
phf: asciilifeform: i understand your point, but i'm not sure that the author in question made a choice by considering viable alternatives, rather than from not knowing
asciilifeform: or some other
mircea_popescu: neither.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in other lulz :
mircea_popescu: keeping sane memstructs 99% of the job i am pretty well persuaded.
mircea_popescu: the memstructs.
apeloyee: how to avoid perlization of $newscriptlang then?
asciilifeform: but yes, to ditch the pyturds and perlisms
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i ain't got a proper lispm, and neither does anybody else
mircea_popescu: by all accounts he had no sex in the 70s or 80s ; but in any case had not even satisfied that minimum bar of middle class bourgeoisie of a 2nd girl somewhere.
asciilifeform: bbbut the museum ! ( they opened a 'ceaucescu's summer palace' thing , with golden errrythings )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's scandalous ahistorism. the man ate ~like a monk.
asciilifeform: sorta accounts for my somewhat contrarian reaction to the much-advertised 'golden toilet' aspect of ceaucescu
mircea_popescu: ironically, romania's communist party had made the socialist republic very very far from the "sacred ideals". usg much more worthy of the S than rsr ever manafged to be.
asciilifeform: just like the lowest prole
asciilifeform: ( the noun is lost, but придворный remains 'courtier' )
asciilifeform: waitasec is this false cognate with the ru
mircea_popescu: (but the above, there is mention made of eg, emperor going out into the pridvor, ie peasant style veranda. cuz he must've had one. and so on. how could a house be without ? esp if rich enough ?)
mircea_popescu: in a sense. yes, there's a certain purity in ignorance.
mircea_popescu: the ro folklore imagines the emperor's court as a sort of larger peasant house. i have no doubt ceausescu imagined all others as a sort of "people from village i have known"
mircea_popescu: i do not believe the man had any sort of comprehension of the world outside the sheerest anachronism.
mircea_popescu: had no idea of eg the man's letters, as they weren't in the 3rd grade manual. or of anything else.
mircea_popescu: not at all. he had the most cursory familiarity with the man's work, of the exact sort as might have been pounded into a trades apprentice during basic schooling by kingdom efforts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to get back to teh ceausescu lulz : he describes vasile alecsandri (a rich, old boyar who also wrote poems, very much like say pushkin, massive landholder etc. but ceausescu discusses his work in terms of oyu know, "this journalist kid from the 1800s, did his job, wrote for the people".
asciilifeform: i would like to see the minimal practical nonlisp loc, in such an animal
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 18:50 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737529 << that doesn't sound right, read and eval are distinct phases, by the time you get to eval you shouldn't be operating with strings when but instead with interned symbols (i.e. things that can be eq'd in lisp and pointer equivalent on c machine level)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737923 << i gotta add to this before it runs away : when making ~scriptlang~ ( rather than an actual lispm ) very different set of design tradeoffs might be acceptable, it they reduce complexity and in particular nonlisp LOC
asciilifeform: it's the same as doing nothing
mircea_popescu: at significant cost, twas in the logs.
mircea_popescu: ah you meant in his thing. yes it still applies, he shaves a further half bit is all.
apeloyee: then my argument still applies
asciilifeform: apeloyee exactly half of the bitness of modulus.
apeloyee: what's the range of candidate p's?
mircea_popescu: once you decide rsa is based on mult, you decide to take the mult leak.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 01:09 asciilifeform: the way i'd implement the whole shebang, is simply to reject both primes if the highest bit of pq is not 1 .
mircea_popescu: apeloyee because this is a mathematical leak, it's not avoidable properly speaking. multiplication is not a neutral op wrt the tails of the multiplicands. but leaks.
asciilifeform: nah, in the sense where neither i nor anybody else can distinguish hash(fg output) from hash(we fuck pigs) , without knowing the answer ahead of time
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737571 << if k MSBs of N are 1s, then k MSBs of p and q both are 1s, ie it only leaks sometimes. the leak itself is small, but since slightly biased RNG wouldn't be acceptable, then why this is?
mircea_popescu: even the shoddiest 2011 scammers produce ~perfect "bitcoin business opportunities". hence the popularity of scam-investment.
asciilifeform: ( aside from knowing the riddle key )
asciilifeform: afaik even the shoddiest 1980s hash algo, produce ~perfect 'white noise'. hence the popularity of faux-rng via hashwhitener etc.
mircea_popescu: see their PRIME densities etc.
mircea_popescu: might actually be an interesting approach to the whole "hash evaluation" problem.
asciilifeform: ( suffers from the flaw of potentially never terminating tho )
asciilifeform: dun suffer, in principle, from the nextprime()-problem
mircea_popescu: in fact, the return 4; hash is the ~only hash function about which we can say with certainty that no inverse exists.
asciilifeform: (i.e. such that there is ~nothing~ that can be said in advance re what kind of prime will be chosen)
asciilifeform: but it remains open q , whether it can be done correctly (equiprobably)
mircea_popescu: apeloyee great hash. always yields 4. unbreakable. what's the problem ?