1000000;1589217602;jurov;ping
1000001;1589217619;BingoBoingo;pong
1000002;1589217655;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin
1000003;1589217673;jurov;yay
1000004;1589217693;asciilifeform;congrats jurov .
1000005;1589217704;asciilifeform;feel free to put ^url in tagline
1000006;1589217730;asciilifeform;jurov: want 'watchglass' too ?
1000007;1589217756;jurov;Welcome. Don't expect from me any great proclamations soon, I missed much last few years and have to learn what was done.
1000008;1589217784;*;asciilifeform in no hurry
1000009;1589217807;jurov;Also I am aware this kind of work can't be just bought.
1000010;1589217817;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-02-06#1006123][ asciilifeform's pov re trb worx ] ftr
1000011;1589217818;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2020-02-06 asciilifeform: shinohai: imho trb is actually 1 of those rare cases where a software is reasonably close to 'leave it the fuck alone'.
1000012;1589217819;BingoBoingo;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-05-11#1011995][Ack], just try to see what you can do catching up on the Foundation work. If you can fix the permissions issues making patches inaccessible on the www that would be great
1000013;1589217819;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2020-05-11 jurov: asciilifeform: none of that is my coin, I avoided any personal exposure to mp since bitbet and tried to keep low profile to avoid harming the clients
1000014;1589217842;BingoBoingo;Hopefully something gets resolved there during the next couple years
1000015;1589217845;jurov;Yes, the permission issue, on it.
1000016;1589218089;asciilifeform;^ anyone who wants his node(s) added to the wg 'operator: name' table, plox to inform asciilifeform .
1000017;1589218109;asciilifeform;that way can get irc light when yer box(en) listed.
1000018;1589218189;asciilifeform;jurov: re catching up, dun hesitate to ask re 'what's this knob do' if encounter puzzler.
1000019;1589218320;jurov;!w poll
1000020;1589218320;watchglass;Polling 11 nodes...
1000021;1589218320;watchglass;205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629991
1000022;1589218320;watchglass;205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629991
1000023;1589218320;watchglass;205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629991 (Operator: asciilifeform)
1000024;1589218320;watchglass;205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.090s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629989
1000025;1589218321;watchglass;108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.161s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629991 (Operator: asciilifeform)
1000026;1589218321;watchglass;208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.234s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629991
1000027;1589218322;watchglass;143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.290s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629991
1000028;1589218322;watchglass;213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.342s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629991
1000029;1589218323;watchglass;188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.355s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=629991
1000030;1589218327;jurov;watchglass is nice to have, too
1000031;1589218330;asciilifeform;most recent time opened hood on trb was when worked w/ [http://blog.mod6.net/2020/03/getdata-for-blocks/][mod6] to [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-02-27#1007906][resolve] [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-02-26#1007858][wedge] .
1000032;1589218330;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2020-02-27 asciilifeform: attn trb operators: 205.134.172.27 is nao running [http://blog.mod6.net/2020/02/multiple-vpatches-tested-and-signed/][mod6's latest variant], augmented with [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/trb/obey_sendbuffersize.vpatch][this experimental patch] ([http://www.loper-os.org/pub/trb/obey_sendbuffersize.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig][my sig] thereof ) .
1000033;1589218330;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2020-02-26 asciilifeform: bvt: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wedge/wedger.py ; and use with http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wedge/snap_49999.txt or hash file of same format of your choice.
1000034;1589218340;watchglass;192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000035;1589218340;watchglass;103.36.92.112:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000036;1589218365;asciilifeform;jurov: lemme know if you come up with anyffin you want added to [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3665][watchglass] .
1000037;1589218389;asciilifeform;there's 1 knob that aint in the docs yet,
1000038;1589218402;asciilifeform;!w peers  205.134.172.27
1000039;1589218405;watchglass;205.134.172.27:8333 : reported peers: 3.112.222.89 35.194.66.49 37.204.78.81 46.142.73.175 47.156.151.158 47.244.141.148:28833 58.106.193.160 66.189.85.187 69.181.199.185 75.134.21.17
1000040;1589218405;watchglass;205.134.172.27:8333 : reported peers: 77.191.93.43 77.228.110.240 79.73.43.162 84.255.134.168 91.134.145.202 92.76.92.219 92.116.202.190 95.112.147.222 144.76.91.46 151.30.223.36
1000041;1589218405;watchglass;205.134.172.27:8333 : reported peers: 174.24.69.2 176.84.115.79 178.112.6.32 187.145.115.137 189.68.175.108 194.6.200.222 208.94.240.42 213.109.238.156 216.93.131.117 217.145.91.6
1000042;1589218406;watchglass;205.134.172.27:8333 : reported peers: 219.160.45.7
1000043;1589218537;*;asciilifeform would like to see somebody w/ spare cpu cycles stand up spare logger instance(s) for #therealbitcoin 
1000044;1589220183;jurov;asciilifeform: snsabot is this logotron http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452 ?
1000045;1589220242;jurov;hi diana_coman
1000046;1589220299;diana_coman;hello jurov, I'll read the logs
1000047;1589220682;diana_coman;jurov: is this meant to be the chan where all matters foundation-related are to be discussed and publicly accessible? or just a chan for trb-interested people or what exactly? (I admit I don't understand the topic's "Here the mess is cooked and turd polished.")
1000048;1589220749;jurov;diana_coman: yes, it is meant to be the chan.
1000049;1589220816;jurov;diana_coman: and the topic refers to one mircea popescu's recent funny remark, will be eventually replaced
1000050;1589220932;asciilifeform;anybody know who's Anissa38Kulas ?
1000051;1589220961;diana_coman;oh, I had a vague recollection the foundation had something similar, so I thought it was carried over from there; anyways, I'll read the logs then and feel free to ping me in #o if anything.
1000052;1589221108;jurov;mkay
1000053;1589221611;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-11#1000044 << correct
1000054;1589221611;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-11 14:03:03 jurov: asciilifeform: snsabot is this logotron http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452 ?
1000055;1589221656;asciilifeform;that's the only 1 asciilifeform operates
1000056;1589221793;asciilifeform;( for folx using other types, there's the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-raw/therealbitcoin?istart=1000000&iend=1000500][traditional export knob] & the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/static/log_db.gz][hourly db snap] . )
1000057;1589267903;kiwi_41;Hi
1000058;1589269140;jurov;heh, seems the link on website works
1000059;1589306917;asciilifeform;jurov: [http://therealbitcoin.org/trusted-nodes.html][the tbf noad list] is somewhat outta date :
1000060;1589306943;asciilifeform;!w probe 172.86.178.46
1000061;1589306943;watchglass;172.86.178.46:8333 : Could not connect!
1000062;1589306957;asciilifeform;!w probe 216.151.13.77
1000063;1589306971;asciilifeform;!w probe 91.218.246.31
1000064;1589306977;watchglass;216.151.13.77:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000065;1589306991;watchglass;91.218.246.31:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000066;1589306996;asciilifeform;!w probe 108.31.170.3
1000067;1589306996;watchglass;108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.101s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630133
1000068;1589307004;asciilifeform;!w probe 208.94.240.42
1000069;1589307004;watchglass;208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.116s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630133
1000070;1589307015;asciilifeform;!w probe 103.36.92.112
1000071;1589307016;watchglass;103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.654s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630133
1000072;1589307024;asciilifeform;!w probe 82.79.58.192
1000073;1589307035;asciilifeform;!w probe 143.202.160.10
1000074;1589307044;watchglass;82.79.58.192:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000075;1589307045;asciilifeform;!w probe 88.80.148.58
1000076;1589307055;watchglass;143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000077;1589307056;asciilifeform;!w probe 192.151.158.26
1000078;1589307064;asciilifeform;!w probe 205.134.172.4
1000079;1589307065;watchglass;205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.323s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630134
1000080;1589307065;watchglass;88.80.148.58:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000081;1589307076;watchglass;192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000082;1589307134;asciilifeform;4 alive, 7 kaput
1000083;1589307197;asciilifeform;( the latter, likely, lack the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-11#1000031][wedge cure] . )
1000084;1589307197;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-11 13:32:10 asciilifeform: most recent time opened hood on trb was when worked w/ [http://blog.mod6.net/2020/03/getdata-for-blocks/][mod6] to [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-02-27#1007906][resolve] [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-02-26#1007858][wedge] .
1000085;1589445274;jurov;!w probe 205.134.172.4
1000086;1589445274;watchglass;205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.084s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630318
1000087;1589445408;jurov;!w probe 172.86.178.46
1000088;1589445408;watchglass;172.86.178.46:8333 : Could not connect!
1000089;1589445415;jurov;!w probe 91.218.246.31
1000090;1589445430;jurov;!w probe 82.79.58.192
1000091;1589445436;watchglass;91.218.246.31:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000092;1589445442;jurov;!w probe 143.202.160.10
1000093;1589445450;jurov;!w probe 88.80.148.58
1000094;1589445450;watchglass;82.79.58.192:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000095;1589445451;watchglass;88.80.148.58:8333 : Alive: (0.274s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630318
1000096;1589445460;jurov;!w probe 192.151.158.26
1000097;1589445463;watchglass;143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000098;1589445480;watchglass;192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000099;1589445749;jurov;Updated the node list removed some IPs: trinque spyked ben_vulpes, ping me if you want to readd
1000100;1589463555;asciilifeform;jurov: plz add 205.134.172.27
1000101;1589479652;jurov;asciilifeform: it's yours?
1000102;1589479665;asciilifeform;jurov: aha
1000103;1589479673;asciilifeform;i have 2 :
1000104;1589479675;asciilifeform;!w poll
1000105;1589479675;watchglass;Polling 11 nodes...
1000106;1589479675;watchglass;205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.089s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360 (Operator: asciilifeform)
1000107;1589479676;watchglass;205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360
1000108;1589479676;watchglass;205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.104s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360
1000109;1589479676;watchglass;108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360 (Operator: asciilifeform)
1000110;1589479676;watchglass;205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.143s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360
1000111;1589479676;watchglass;208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.105s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360
1000112;1589479677;watchglass;213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.344s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360
1000113;1589479677;watchglass;188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.454s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360
1000114;1589479678;watchglass;103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.534s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630360
1000115;1589479695;watchglass;192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000116;1589479695;watchglass;143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
1000117;1589479707;asciilifeform;( they're marked ^ . other folx can request similar 'operator:' marking, but nobody has of yet )
1000118;1589479835;asciilifeform;jurov: .3 lives on my desk. .27 at the dc .
1000119;1589479865;asciilifeform;atm both are configured identically ( mod6's last tree + my wedge pill . )
1000120;1589483417;jurov;do you want the .3 labeled as "asciilifeform's desk?" :)
1000121;1589483667;asciilifeform;jurov: sure
1000122;1589483684;asciilifeform;just the name also ok
1000123;1589483709;asciilifeform;jurov: do you want yours labeled in wg ? (which 1's yours anyway?)
1000124;1589565527;jfw;asciilifeform: mind expanding on what you mean by [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-11#1000010][leave it the fuck alone] and why?
1000125;1589565527;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-11 13:23:37 asciilifeform: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-02-06#1006123][ asciilifeform's pov re trb worx ] ftr
1000126;1589565588;jfw;you think it's good enough? readable? works well? "close enough for government work" as the contractors said back home?
1000127;1589565606;asciilifeform;jfw: i'll elaborate (in ~15 m, tied up in meatspace atm)
1000128;1589565635;jfw;no rush.
1000129;1589565789;asciilifeform;jfw: are you familiar with how i stepped into that pile o'shit to begin with, in '14 ?
1000130;1589565911;asciilifeform;my notion was 'we'll rewrite the client'. but 1st thought 'let's find what original does', as it was never 100% documented anywhere. mp contributed a copy of 0.5.3. asciilifeform then cut quarter MB of obvious rubbish from it, and signed (this was pre-'v'.) various other folx started reading, cutting.
1000131;1589565913;jfw;not entirely, I know you were btc-skeptical at first, and MP invited you to review his exchange
1000132;1589565963;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's orig. notion was to produce 'the book', i.e. something like [https://www.peerllc.com/peer-to-peer-books/lions-commentary-on-unix/][lion's unix 6th ed.] for bitcoin .
1000133;1589566002;asciilifeform;jfw: this was already 1+y after asciilifeform was persuaded to join mp et al.
1000134;1589566050;asciilifeform;[http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-October/thread.html][the orig. threads on tbf ml.]
1000135;1589566053;jfw;right, there was a 'gypsy chicken recipe' involved back then
1000136;1589566073;asciilifeform;right, that was where i took the 0.5.3 and cut off the mswin, gui, buncha cruft
1000137;1589566092;asciilifeform;[http://btcbase.org/patches][phf's patch viewer still best imho illustration of what/when cut, by whom]
1000138;1589566151;jfw;I've read or at least skimmed all the vpatches ftr, signed & hosted at http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/v/bitcoin/
1000139;1589566175;asciilifeform;for long time, project was stalled -- 0.5.3 would sync up to certain block and mysteriously grind to halt. then in fact mp dug up the pill, was bug in the orig. bdb. then became possible to run working nodes .
1000140;1589566210;jfw;insufficient magic numbers in the bdb locking system config
1000141;1589566213;asciilifeform;aha
1000142;1589566281;asciilifeform;so, to return to jfw's orig. q: to date, ~errything that's been done to trb, consisted of a) cuts of dross (the irc seed finder, mswin liquishit, gui, etc) b) bug fixes (most recently : the 'getinfo' wedge)
1000143;1589566309;jfw;(to be pedantic, 'at least skimmed' does not apply to genesis, though I've started on a gradual full readthrough.)
1000144;1589566316;asciilifeform;the thing is defo not pleasant to read, or in any way sane example of programming , by even microshit standards
1000145;1589566343;asciilifeform;asciilifeform cannot speak for all of the participants, but what he wanted it for, was as ~reference~
1000146;1589566371;asciilifeform;i.e. so can write new client that's guaranteed to be 100% compat (i.e. won't spontaneously end up forked off at any pt)
1000147;1589566420;asciilifeform;any major change to the orig. item, potentially destroys this function (i.e. potentially changes the semantics of the thing in the face of new inputs) . mp called this the 'grandfather's pistols' problem .
1000148;1589566459;asciilifeform;so no one made any substantial change. ( asciilifeform at one time glued on a scheme interpreter, and 'let's rewrite pieces in that', but this didn't catch on, and abandoned. arguably it was ill-conceived idea from start. )
1000149;1589566499;jfw;yes, that's a challenge; otoh, I find it ~impossible to reason about what wtf those pistols currently do anyway
1000150;1589566526;asciilifeform;to give very concrete example : the recent 'wedge' was on acct of the nonsensical ocean of semaphore locks in trb. and would seem 'why not remove'em' . but go and try.
1000151;1589566559;asciilifeform;there's ~no way to guarantee exactly same behaviour as the orig. cuz orig author simply sprinkled locks around like a child.
1000152;1589566643;jfw;perhaps to make matters worse, I'm not sure there's any guarantee that original has same behavior as itself on different occasions.
1000153;1589566665;asciilifeform;exactly; the 'getinfo' wedge was specific instance of just this.
1000154;1589566703;asciilifeform;trb is literally the shoddiest piece of ??? asciilifeform ever had the misfortune to work with. and asciilifeform maintains legacy winblows crud for a living.
1000155;1589566715;jfw;the bdb locks too; I imagine it'd depend on how exactly your b-trees ended up layed out due to past history as to how many pages it needed to lock and thus what exact block it would stick on.
1000156;1589566734;asciilifeform;exactly. and think, wtf does the thing need a general-purpose db, when ~old blocks don't change~ ~
1000157;1589566762;asciilifeform;block >20 or so deep, will never change ! till sun burns out. why need b-trees ?!
1000158;1589566783;jfw;well for starters it needs to update an index of where txns are spent, no?
1000159;1589566790;asciilifeform;answer is, orig author was lazy ignoramus. and, on top of this, never finished the item.
1000160;1589566828;asciilifeform;jfw: this doesn't require a changeable db, w/ trees. i outlined a simple o(1) scheme some yrs ago, where one actually stores backlinks to the tx being spent.
1000161;1589566872;jfw;does that require changing the block format though?
1000162;1589566887;asciilifeform;nope
1000163;1589566906;asciilifeform;entirely client-size (i.e. follows traditional protocol when speaking)
1000164;1589566978;asciilifeform;jfw: [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/nqb/][posted some of the example coad] a while ago .
1000165;1589566994;asciilifeform;( see 'type Tx...' )
1000166;1589567094;asciilifeform;idea is, when you eat a block, you store the tx in such a way that they actually point to the ones being spent. in mmap'd array. the respective scripts are kept in another, so that they don't fuck your page alignments. (ea. tx points back to the orig. script. so can reconstitute orig. tx / block on demand )
1000167;1589567142;jfw;how do you find where the ones being spent are, if you don't have an index by txid?
1000168;1589567155;asciilifeform;in yet a 3rd mmap'd array you keep hash table. so you can take e.g. 1st 32bits of txid, and deref array, and in that place either a 0, or the index of where the tx lives in the tx array.
1000169;1589567186;asciilifeform;you do index by txid. and with ea. tx, keep the indices of any it spends, and any that in turn later spent it.
1000170;1589567237;asciilifeform;this would be very difficult if you had to handle reorgs. asciilifeform's discovery was that you don't have to, if you keep e.g. last 100blox in 'nursery' (something similar to the old db) and only >100-deep blox, in the static arrays.
1000171;1589567254;asciilifeform;then you don't need to support reorg, for the latter.
1000172;1589567271;jfw;but tx index is a tree then, no? (or hash table which isn't guaranteed access time)
1000173;1589567287;asciilifeform;guaranteed o(1) access.
1000174;1589567295;asciilifeform;i'll elaborate if it aint clear
1000175;1589567308;asciilifeform;say you want to look up a tx by id.
1000176;1589567317;asciilifeform;you take 1st 32bits of the id.
1000177;1589567387;asciilifeform;then you look at what's in index(first_32_of_id). it'll be a e.g. 48bit word. if it's 0, there's no tx with that id.
1000178;1589567400;asciilifeform;if it aint 0, that's an index into the blocks array .
1000179;1589567403;asciilifeform;both mmaped.
1000180;1589567433;asciilifeform;this requires a large, but, interestingly, roughly same mass of disk as the old db.
1000181;1589567448;jfw;and in case of collision of first 32 bits?
1000182;1589567452;asciilifeform;and because the index is a sparse array, mmap Does Right Thing, so it doesn't eat up all yer ram
1000183;1589567480;asciilifeform;jfw: in case of collision, the 1st of those 48 is set, and the pointed address contains the full list of all id's having those given 32bits in start.
1000184;1589567514;asciilifeform;my other suggestion , for minimizing collisions, was to pre-hash the txids with a machine-local salt, to keep people from 'mining' colliding txid's and grinding erryone down
1000185;1589567531;asciilifeform;but in fact you do have to handle collisions, elementarily, given as txid is quite bit longer than 32b
1000186;1589567545;asciilifeform;ftr i thought all of this was clear when said 'hash table...'
1000187;1589567568;jfw;sounds the same as any other hash table, so not sure why the objection to btree, but ok, maybe implementation ends up simpler.
1000188;1589567577;asciilifeform;cuz it doesn't need to change!
1000189;1589567590;asciilifeform;there's no reason to have to balance a tree for this.
1000190;1589567615;asciilifeform;simply suffices to lay down the tx as the come in, in the next available free space. and update the index appropriately.
1000191;1589567631;asciilifeform;(likewise gotta track which block # given tx belongs to. but this is imho obv. detail.)
1000192;1589567742;jfw;anyway, mind returning upstack for now? I'll assume this scheme works fine; where does that leave TRB work?
1000193;1589567765;asciilifeform;jfw: after described this, went to write a mmap lib for ada. [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-01-22#1889489][this] was where stopped.
1000194;1589567765;snsabot;(trilema) 2019-01-22 a111: Logged on 2017-06-06 19:40 asciilifeform: mod6, phf , et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/ada/horsecocks.tar.gz << i dun recall posting this before, so here it will live, for nao : unofficial release of mmaptron
1000195;1589567766;asciilifeform;aite
1000196;1589567801;asciilifeform;jfw: imho trb is a 'life support' item. i.e. one needs a working client, not only to study 'let's rewrite', but to actually use bitcoin .
1000197;1589567840;asciilifeform;most of what i've done to the thing since '15, was from that pov. i.e. 'people report it takes 8 weeks to sync, let's see why'
1000198;1589567851;asciilifeform;'nodes seem to all be wedged, let's find why.' etc
1000199;1589567903;asciilifeform;taking, for instance, sync (iirc jfw once said he was interested in why sync slow)
1000200;1589567921;asciilifeform;in '18 i profiled the thing, for months. found that spends ~100% of time ~waiting for someone to give new block~
1000201;1589567938;asciilifeform;cuz orig author was a moron, and made sync something that happens only briefly ~at boot time~
1000202;1589567979;jfw;re sync, quite; for instance I presently can't transact because I've had a node sitting on desk for >month that spending most of its time doing nothing but receiving bastard blocks until killed & restarted.
1000203;1589567985;asciilifeform;wrote [http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks]['aggression'] patch. which seemed to help (changed logic to 'ask for blocks' at time new peer connects, rather than the idiot bootup )
1000204;1589568014;asciilifeform;but this also not cure. because if entire cluster of nodes not gets new blocks for while, but connections still alive, they happily sit there like idiots and get 0 new blocks.
1000205;1589568043;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes [http://btcbase.org/patches/ben_vulpes_increase_aggression_levels][attempted a more aggressive] sync, but iirc wasn't quite enuff .
1000206;1589568073;asciilifeform;afaik no one has since experimented with this bit ( it only comes into play when node falls severely behind, is possibly why )
1000207;1589568107;asciilifeform;jfw: 'bastard blocks' are simply blocks for which the antecedent is not known. it'll be 100% of incoming blocks , from a node's pov, if it lacks even one antecedent for'em.
1000208;1589568141;asciilifeform;i introduced the term in [http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke][this] patch .
1000209;1589568144;jfw;right.
1000210;1589568161;asciilifeform;( orig. 0.5.3 had a data structure called 'orphanage' , which stored ~arbitrary~ incoming turds claiming to be blocks, and ate ~100% of memory )
1000211;1589568173;jfw;and I've nfi why trb peers send me non-current blocks for which I lack antecedents
1000212;1589568186;asciilifeform;cuz they don't know that you lack the antecedent .
1000213;1589568200;jfw;they just guess at what block numbers I need?
1000214;1589568201;asciilifeform;default behaviour is, for instance, to retransmit ~all~ incoming new blocks that got accepted by node.
1000215;1589568209;asciilifeform;they don't even guess. simply blindly relay.
1000216;1589568252;asciilifeform;and, moreover, even a node that is syncing, will relay. i'ma work an example :
1000217;1589568256;jfw;perhaps it's that - they're relaying new blocks only, and problem is that the sync 'ran out of steam' after leaving 'bootup' phase.
1000218;1589568301;asciilifeform;you have a new node, it's at 0. mr. x has another young node, it's at 100k. he just got 100,000 .. 100,500. his node peers with yours. yer gonna receive those 100,000 .. 100,500 , whether you want'em or not
1000219;1589568306;asciilifeform;whether you know what to do with'em, or not
1000220;1589568333;asciilifeform;cuz mr. x's node doesn't ~know~ the 'current block height' of whole net. it's an abstraction. it only knows that it just learned 500 'new' blox.
1000221;1589568338;asciilifeform;so 'helpfully' sends'em to you.
1000222;1589568363;jfw;sure, s/new/new-to-them/ then
1000223;1589568379;asciilifeform;i oversimplify slightly, the orig client has a hardcoded turd that tries to guess if it's 'severely behind' based on the block heights reported by peers. but it doesn't, as you might expect, work reliably to prevent this kinda spam.
1000224;1589568397;asciilifeform;the nodes default to sending 'more than you want', cuz that's how the blocks/tx propagate. it's primarily a 'push' mechanism.
1000225;1589568508;jfw;Now - perhaps this is where I interrupted re mmap db - is it your view that efforts at this point are best spent on rewrite while problems with the ref. impl. are handled reactively?
1000226;1589568552;asciilifeform;1s
1000227;1589569434;asciilifeform;jfw: correct
1000228;1589569628;jfw;asciilifeform: alright, thanks.
1000229;1589569687;jfw;jurov, trinque: I'm curious whether you concur with the above. Gotta run now but will check log.
1000230;1589570043;asciilifeform;jfw: i'm not somehow opposed to efforts to civilize trb 'in sections'. but imho suffers from same problem as ab initio rewrite (i.e. not guaranteed to preserve semantics) while still retains the idjit 'serializations' etc
1000231;1589570067;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-05-03#1010986][see also] .
1000232;1589570067;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2020-05-03 asciilifeform: the ~whole calamity of trb is that the internal representations for ~everything are thoroughly braindamaged. if you fix this, you get ~0 of the orig. trb remaining, i.e. same as total rewrite. if you don't, you get 100k loc of glue.
1000233;1589570159;asciilifeform;for my part, i'ma rip out the ssl crapola an' replace w/ ffa. (dunno if anyone ~else~ wants such a trb, but i'm personally tired of sslism)
1000234;1589570185;asciilifeform;this strictly from pov of ' asciilifeform's personal nodes ' , but of course will publish .
1000235;1589570779;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-15#1000138 << btw i notice the wedge pill aint in there. may be 1 reason why jfw's box can't sync .
1000236;1589570780;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-15 14:09:11 jfw: I've read or at least skimmed all the vpatches ftr, signed & hosted at http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/v/bitcoin/
1000237;1589575477;trinque;jfw: mmmm it's hard to say; the thing's a hellish tarpit for sure.
1000238;1589575502;trinque;were I taking it on, I'd probably pare the thing down a bit yet before rewriting
1000239;1589575520;trinque;I have a patch on my desk that cleaves off the entire wallet and stuff only used by wallet
1000240;1589575528;trinque;you're welcome to it if it's helpful
1000241;1589575560;asciilifeform;trinque: iirc jfw made something similar , prior to tuning in
1000242;1589575569;trinque;ah, cool then
1000243;1589575574;trinque;it does cut the weight a bit
1000244;1589575584;trinque;(not nearly enough but)
1000245;1589575607;asciilifeform;reduces the thickness of the 3ring you need to keep the thing in, for sure
1000246;1589575620;asciilifeform;but does 0 against 'serializations', the locking horror, etc
1000247;1589575641;asciilifeform;they're pretty firmly 'glued with broken glass'
1000248;1589575646;trinque;probably wireshark protocol analysis is a better path forward eh?
1000249;1589575664;asciilifeform;trinque: oddly enuff, the protocol i found to be quite simple. e.g. 'watchglass' in fact nao speaks 100% of it
1000250;1589575669;trinque;mhm
1000251;1589575680;asciilifeform;( and indeed i had to wireshark , it aint 100% documented afaik anywhere )
1000252;1589575692;trinque;honestly if the piece of shit relies on implicit behavior, better out with it now than later
1000253;1589575710;asciilifeform;for double lulz, 'wireshark' comes w/ what claims to be bitcoin protocol decoder . it only quasi-worx.
1000254;1589575756;trinque;would be neat to see an item produced that horks and sprays blocks, and doesn't worry about whether it's doing it in exactly the same way as trb.
1000255;1589575830;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-03-01#1008251][for instance, 1 find.]
1000256;1589575830;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2020-03-01 asciilifeform: shinohai: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-03-01#1008205][this] btw confirmed. i did experiment, if one sends that extra byte, prb noades do in fact send addrs. (and yes some of'em ipv6, have to be thrown out)
1000257;1589575834;asciilifeform;( re protocol corners. )
1000258;1589575895;asciilifeform;trinque: indeed would. and one could jettison some of the weird special cases (e.g. support for replaceable tx's) in the orig., if you cement in hashes for 1st 600k blox etc
1000259;1589576106;asciilifeform;( iirc i described this in the past. cement, not a la prb's 'dun need to verify these', but rather 'oh and btw the 1st N blox have THESE hashes, and it someone brings in a 599,999 that doesn't, he's trying to fuck you )
1000260;1589576219;asciilifeform;[http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-October/000315.html][the demo for this, on the ml.]
1000261;1589577165;*;asciilifeform will add : imho the main reason why trb seems to consist 80+% by mass of kilometres of pointless abstractions standing in each others' (and reader's) way -- is that this style is forced on cpp victims by the language; it is how they avoid coarse errors of pilotage (buffer off-by-1s and other consequences of c/cpp's idiot lack of ranged types, bounds checks, built-in array moves )
1000262;1589577216;asciilifeform;microshit's coad looks ~entirely like trb. (but -- a little cleaner, they have 1000 monkeys on erry piece of shit, sweeping up )
1000263;1589577254;asciilifeform;this is how 'oop'ism became a thing.
1000264;1589577280;asciilifeform;'oh noez, if you expose the raw bytes, someone could off-by-1...'
1000265;1589577600;asciilifeform;for illustration, compare [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mpi_kara.txt][this] to [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch21a-bis/fz_mul__adb.htm][that] .
1000266;1589577833;asciilifeform;( for the innocent: the item on left , and the 1 on right, do nominally 'same thing' ... )
1000267;1589577931;*;asciilifeform would link to a cpp example, from heathendom, but folx will lose their lunch, so won't
1000268;1589579812;shinohai;asciilifeform: Do you, offhand, know the link to the thread re: bdb bug ?
1000269;1589581630;asciilifeform;shinohai: it's in phf's logs , defo not in mine, being 'era 1' (pre-apr of '16)
1000270;1589581680;asciilifeform;[http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=252450][there] .
1000271;1589581768;shinohai;oh fuck NOW I remember that. ty asciilifeform
1000272;1589581856;asciilifeform;np.
1000273;1589582954;jurov;asciilifeform: i don't have node atm, the hdd died and waits for reinstall. no idea whose is the radiolan.sk one
1000274;1589582982;jurov;will ingest the rest of log tmrw
1000275;1589583063;asciilifeform;ah hm jurov i always assumed it was yours
1000276;1589583084;*;asciilifeform wonders who the seekrit lurker slovak were...
1000277;1589616240;jurov;great summary! i've only meddled a bit with trb mempool and then tuned out
1000278;1589652761;jfw;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-15#1000235 - from mod6's article I got the idea that his was still a halfway-fix, and yours still flagged experimental. I thought I'd wait for a finished thing before digging into it. Did I miss such a thing?
1000279;1589652761;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-15 15:26:19 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-15#1000138 << btw i notice the wedge pill aint in there. may be 1 reason why jfw's box can't sync .
1000280;1589652787;jfw;don't think the 'wedge' is afflicting me though, RPC remains responsive.
1000281;1589652907;jfw;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-15#1000239 - this is the right direction imo; the builtin wallet is awful in many ways (for starters: insists on spilling pregenerated keys to disk *before allowing you to encrypt*)
1000282;1589652907;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-15 16:45:20 trinque: I have a patch on my desk that cleaves off the entire wallet and stuff only used by wallet
1000283;1589652998;jfw;and lots of pointless db abstractions and machinations, and some of the locking horrors, go into supporting it
1000284;1589653083;asciilifeform;hm jfw for some reason i thought you already baked a trb w/ walletism cut ( and replaced with lispy wallet thing )
1000285;1589653122;jfw;I made a fully-external and airgap-friendy wallet, yep; didn't yet go cutting on the cpp.
1000286;1589653126;asciilifeform;ah
1000287;1589653139;trinque;happy to dust this thing off then, will do sometime this weekend.
1000288;1589653161;jfw;I think some export mechanism for old wallet.dat's would be important before fully ditching it though.
1000289;1589653184;trinque;carved off key generation and address generation into a keyutil proggie too, but might be irrelevant with your thing.
1000290;1589653194;jfw;because of the 'serialized blobs dumped in a key-value store' approach to database, doesn't yield to commodity tools.
1000291;1589653213;trinque;sure, or just the "I found a wallet.dat, wat dis" scenario
1000292;1589653226;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-16#1000278 << this is half-correct : the patch asciilifeform & mod6 baked, caps the mass of reply to 'getdata' for blox, but not tx. but thus far no one has observed a wedge powered by requesting mempool tx ( both asciilifeform and mod6 tried to make one artificially, and mod6 iirc wrote a debug log parser to look for 'heavy' tx, to throw in 'wedger' . )
1000293;1589653226;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-16 14:12:41 jfw: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-15#1000235 - from mod6's article I got the idea that his was still a halfway-fix, and yours still flagged experimental. I thought I'd wait for a finished thing before digging into it. Did I miss such a thing?
1000294;1589653232;trinque;always going to want to be able to extract those.
1000295;1589653292;shinohai;asciilifeform: do u haz signed keccak genesis for trb ?
1000296;1589653303;asciilifeform;( 100% proper patch would cap both. but neither of us at the time was immediately able to figure out how to use the internal knobs to determine tx mass )
1000297;1589653306;trinque;shinohai: iirc mod6 reground the whole tree
1000298;1589653310;asciilifeform;shinohai: it's on mod6's www
1000299;1589653326;asciilifeform;shinohai: currently both of my nodes are using it ( + the wedge pill draft )
1000300;1589653345;jfw;asciilifeform: hm, ok.
1000301;1589653366;jfw;trinque: if you don't mind my asking, what do you use to create transactions?
1000302;1589653385;trinque;pycoin
1000303;1589653399;trinque;not that I'm endorsing it
1000304;1589653408;trinque;would actually be happy to migrate to your thing.
1000305;1589653422;jfw;cool. It's on my list to properly introduce all that
1000306;1589653508;jfw;got genesis patches already, unfortunately noticed they don't follow the subdirs convention (I didn't quite see the point of those but was won over after discussion with diana_coman)
1000307;1589653595;asciilifeform;jfw: the 'one main dir' thing, i deliberately baked into 1st vtron, idea being that i oughta be able to visually identify what proj a vpatch belongs to
1000308;1589653600;shinohai;ok thx. trinque i haz mod6's keccak seals and my own on www
1000309;1589653606;shinohai;just no sigs for anyone else
1000310;1589653613;asciilifeform;afaik not all later vtrons required it tho
1000311;1589653739;asciilifeform;shinohai: i actually signed his regrind, but iirc not yet posted. (held off thinking 'will bake phf-like v-displayer w/ automatic hopper') ; will post after wrap up ch21 (what i'm doing atm)
1000312;1589653753;jfw;[http://blog.mod6.net/2019/01/trb-keccak-regrind/#comment-50][jfw's recipe for diffing against old sha512 genesis] (though it ate my <pre>)
1000313;1589653796;asciilifeform;there in fact was a utf turd in the genesis. iirc mod6 removed in his.
1000314;1589653818;*;shinohai also removed
1000315;1589653850;asciilifeform;shinohai: what do you mean 'also removed' ? i thought yours was mirror of mod6's
1000316;1589653852;trinque;phf ever publish his viewer?
1000317;1589653875;asciilifeform;trinque: nope. i requested many times, was frustrating
1000318;1589653890;trinque;weak
1000319;1589653897;asciilifeform;erry time (while fella was still answering) heard 'soon!'
1000320;1589653950;trinque;every node of the wot needs all pieces of infrastructure, none of this "hurr I'm lord of pulling this lever, and he's lord of pulling that"
1000321;1589653958;asciilifeform;he aint dead; snarfed up e.g. [http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch20d_litmus_nested_fix.kv][ch20d] not so long ago. but not answering mailz.
1000322;1589653972;trinque;obvious butthurt joke is too easy.
1000323;1589653997;asciilifeform;trinque: possibly he saw how asciilifeform's publishing of [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][irc logotron] was received, lol
1000324;1589654053;trinque;I published "cuntoo"; how was that received?
1000325;1589654062;asciilifeform;iirc he admitted once that his item was even worse kludge, ran from save-lisp-and-die snapshot and only loosely corresponds, lol, to the nominal source
1000326;1589654071;trinque;doesn't matter. it has informed every step of the current item I'm working on
1000327;1589654078;trinque;ahahah oic
1000328;1589654109;trinque;man lisp systems have truly chthonic failure modes.
1000329;1589654113;asciilifeform;trinque: i've nuffin against folx publishing their kludges, erryone is adult and knows not to plug it into missile battery
1000330;1589654118;trinque;sure, same.
1000331;1589654160;trinque;no items made by bags of shit and saltwater are holy.
1000332;1589654248;*;trinque bbl, gonna get some sunshine
1000333;1589654260;*;asciilifeform also
1000334;1589675861;jfw;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-16#1000278 - oh and yes, I [http://blog.mod6.net/2020/03/getdata-for-blocks/#comment-63][had a question] about the change.
1000335;1589675861;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-16 14:12:41 jfw: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-15#1000235 - from mod6's article I got the idea that his was still a halfway-fix, and yours still flagged experimental. I thought I'd wait for a finished thing before digging into it. Did I miss such a thing?
1000336;1589677056;asciilifeform;jfw: he dun appear to be tuned in. if you wanna pose q re item, i might be able to answer
1000337;1589677072;*;asciilifeform rereads link
1000338;1589677483;jfw;the patch seems to say "if I'm sending you a message that ends up greater than $limit bytes, you're misbehaving." but how am I to know the good-behavior limit when asking for the blocks, since I don't know how big they are?
1000339;1589677553;*;asciilifeform [http://blog.mod6.net/2020/03/getdata-for-blocks/comment-page-1/#comment-66][answrd on mod6's www] since q was asked there.
1000340;1589677577;asciilifeform;jfw: in modern era, can assume 1e6 bytes per.
1000341;1589677681;asciilifeform;i neglected to put this in the comment, but the reason why prb-type clients ask for blox with 'getdata', is that they do the 'headers-first sync' heresy.
1000342;1589677712;asciilifeform;i.e. they ask a random noad for as many headers as possible, and then assume these represent the actual chain
1000343;1589677731;jfw;figured. which *does* make for fast download at least in fair weather...
1000344;1589677775;asciilifeform;at the quite obvious cost of '1stcomer tells you what the block hashes are' .
1000345;1589677855;jfw;even with trb, 1stcomer could stick you with a long bogus chain due to the historically low difficulty, no?
1000346;1589677894;asciilifeform;jfw: if 1stcomer is your only peer, than yes. was 1 of the reasons i proposed [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-15#1000259][cement] .
1000347;1589677894;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-15 16:55:06 asciilifeform: ( iirc i described this in the past. cement, not a la prb's 'dun need to verify these', but rather 'oh and btw the 1st N blox have THESE hashes, and it someone brings in a 599,999 that doesn't, he's trying to fuck you )
1000348;1589677937;asciilifeform;in real life tho, it aint a very useful attack, would only work on some n00b who has 1 node and no idea of anything outside it
1000349;1589678009;jfw;seems the "headers-first" could be done similarly, though I'd readily believe it's not.
1000350;1589678020;asciilifeform;jfw: 1 of the afaik yet-uninvestigated atlantises of trbism, btw, is what the max practical reorg depth is. it aint 100% apparent from the coad, and needs fairly gnarly experiment, which no one's yet done
1000351;1589678097;asciilifeform;jfw: it could. could ask for headers from 'cemented' hashes (and even why not store the factual sizes of the blox in the cement, so as to ask for 20MB at a time etc) .
1000352;1589678119;asciilifeform;at one pt i wanted to implement, but iirc it was mp who objected, the notion struck him as too prbesque for comfort
1000353;1589678138;asciilifeform;'who are you to say what the 1st n blocks were!' or similar, it was
1000354;1589678143;jfw;I mean get headers from multiple peers and go with highest difficulty
1000355;1589678205;asciilifeform;my orig scheme didn't even go that far. only was 'eat .txt that was put in by hand, node keeper verified pgp sig on, then can request 1st n blox by hashes'
1000356;1589678281;asciilifeform;standard trb is stuck asking for 'gimme next blox after H' . this makes for slow sync even in good weather.
1000357;1589678384;jfw;mhm, esp. since it apparently only asks the one time on connect.
1000358;1589678412;asciilifeform;jfw: interestingly, ben's attempt (ask erry N min of no-new-block) didn't seem to make palpable diff
1000359;1589678421;asciilifeform;afaik no one ever found out for certain just why
1000360;1589678470;asciilifeform;( shitoshi's -- issued pushgetblocks on boot; asciilifeform's 'aggressive' -- on connect; ben's sequel to the latter -- after N min of stall )
1000361;1589678725;*;jfw tempted to schedule a 'kill -9' and restart every N hours, apparently the nessary size of hammer
1000362;1589678749;asciilifeform;jfw: kill then 10s later kill -9 , is the traditional recipe
1000363;1589678758;asciilifeform;(otherwise risk nuking the db)
1000364;1589678794;jfw;bdb can take it supposedly; meanwhile I learned that when "asked politely to shutdown", it moronically rewrites entire blkindex.dat.
1000365;1589678810;asciilifeform;aha, that knob never worked properly
1000366;1589678825;asciilifeform;( again on acct of locking idiocy . it waits ~forever for the threads )
1000367;1589678884;jfw;no, it's a particular self-inflicted thing, "flushing" the db which means not just checkpointing but resetting LSNs
1000368;1589678929;asciilifeform;this also. but i never use that knob because the thing doesn't factually shut down in finite time when you turn it.
1000369;1589678961;asciilifeform;'windows 95' quality standard.
1000370;1589678966;jfw;myeah.
1000371;1589679132;*;asciilifeform wonders whether jfw has already eaten sufficient trb to have found out that it's factually a single-threaded proggy, i.e. can't do ~anything~ with the actual blox for >1 peer at a time , and only invokes pthreads because author had nfi how to sanely queue commands
1000372;1589679192;asciilifeform;hell, even can't speak on >1 socket at 1 time (polls the sockets!)
1000373;1589679221;asciilifeform;^ was the direct mechanism for latest 'wedge'
1000374;1589679266;jfw;I'd quite suspected as much from observation, and saw the RPC server is fully criticalsection'd
1000375;1589679290;asciilifeform;damned near erry other set of {} is 'critical section' in trb
1000376;1589679375;asciilifeform;author had nfi what is to queue, or what a thread-safe data structure might look like, so he sprinkled locks like little girl sprinkles glitter on clothes
1000377;1589679846;asciilifeform;jfw: looking at my notes, seems like it's been 3+yrs since i last stood up a node the 'natural' way ( rather than via 'eatblock' , 'lighting it up' from existing noad )
1000378;1589679875;asciilifeform;sorta like how stone age men worked their fires
1000379;1589680188;jfw;that's one advantage of having students - forces you to notice the pain points you've grown to ignore
1000380;1589680197;asciilifeform;indeed
1000381;1589680228;asciilifeform;'v', for instance, came up with because folx eventually barfed at sorting out signed-patch sequences by hand
1000382;1589680243;asciilifeform;(orig. in trb we had simply signed patches.)
1000383;1589680299;*;asciilifeform cannot claim to have discovered notion of 'signed patches', linus et al were doin' it in 1990s
1000384;1589680424;trinque;yep, was a properly from-cause improvement.
1000385;1589759891;asciilifeform;hey jurov , any chance to see the [http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/?v=makefiles][lxr thing] updated w/ recent trb ? would be quite useful.
1000386;1589759936;*;asciilifeform to this day much prefers that thing to the paper 3ring. and wishes similar existed for adaisms
1000387;1589814324;asciilifeform;soo, loox like [https://archive.is/J7G5q#selection-169.0-173.78][jfw decided that we're lamers], will carry on w/ own hostile fork of trb ?
1000388;1589814751;shinohai;Sad. For most part I've enjoyed reading jfw's trb stuff, though I didn't like the last proposed vpatch.
1000389;1589817731;asciilifeform;shinohai: erry fella's own sacred right, to decide who is lamer. i admit that disappointed (tho not esp. surprised) that his visit to #trb was evidently an exercise in the style of [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-08#1001673][dorion's november thing.]
1000390;1589817731;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2019-11-08 asciilifeform: dorion: you may begin whenever you wish. ( yer time slot is still to 1600 . )
1000391;1589817849;asciilifeform;if jfw thinks he can run his 'trb consultancy' w/out any input from the folx who worked on it for ~7y, moar power to him. but i dunno why he bothered with the wankage.
1000392;1589817873;asciilifeform;( or why not said to my face. but anyway. )
1000393;1589817999;asciilifeform;if he has q's re trb at any pt (or for that matter re fg, or any other piece of asciilifeform's tech that he's tryin' to get rich off) they will have to be answered by someone other than asciilifeform .
1000394;1589825982;BingoBoingo_;asciilifeform: That reads ambiguously to me, and it is hard to tell if the ambiguity is intentional
1000395;1589826219;BingoBoingo;I've also starting replacing the bitcoind's on my nodes with ones built using mod6's wedge fix
1000396;1589826447;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i can see re ambig. perhaps will see clarification later.
1000397;1589829492;dorion;asciilifeform, my motivation behind our conversation in november was I genuinely thought I saw a blind spot in someone I admire. when you didn't see it how I was seeing it, I was rattled and it ended like it ended. I am sorry you inferred something different, but I hope that clarifies what that conversation was to me.
1000398;1589829647;dorion;I don't dispute my communication wasn't the greatest, but that's where it was coming from.
1000399;1589829760;jfw;So if I take others' warnings it's biorobots, fatwas and strafbaten, while if I try to figure things out myself it's wankage. I suppose now if I use alf-techs it'll be "monkeys with no hands living in temple they could never have built", while if I replace them it'll be "aryan physics and hostile forks".
1000400;1589829790;jfw;Curious game, only way to win is...
1000401;1589829880;dorion;lol
1000402;1589829918;*;asciilifeform would luvv to take the bait, but already deeply off-topic for #trb
1000403;1589829942;asciilifeform;dorion: i dun have anyffin against you personally, but suspect 'religious diff.' irresolveable
1000404;1589830042;dorion;perhaps.
1000405;1589830109;*;asciilifeform willing to work w/ folx of other religions, but not surprised when not reciprocal.
1000406;1589842322;asciilifeform;jurov_ (et al ? ) : updated [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-11#1000037][watchglass] public vtree to [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-05-18#1012591][current ver] .
1000407;1589842322;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-11 13:33:09 asciilifeform: there's 1 knob that aint in the docs yet,
1000408;1589842322;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2020-05-18 asciilifeform: btw [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3665][updated 'watchglass' page w/ vpatch] corresponding to currently-deployed bot (w/ 'peers' cmd.)
1000409;1589874164;spyked;hi #trb
1000410;1589874214;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-14#1000099 <-- will do (though perhaps it might be a while until then), ty jurov_
1000411;1589874214;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-14 04:42:29 jurov: Updated the node list removed some IPs: trinque spyked ben_vulpes, ping me if you want to readd
1000412;1589874963;spyked;btw jurov_ lemme know if you want feedbot reading rss here.
1000413;1589899266;asciilifeform;speaking of rss -- jurov , any plan for tbf blog ?
1000414;1590087957;BingoBoingo;!w poll
1000415;1590087958;watchglass;Polling 11 nodes...
1000416;1590087958;watchglass;192.151.158.26:8333 : Could not connect!
1000417;1590087958;watchglass;205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.045s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215
1000418;1590087958;watchglass;108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.101s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215 (Operator: asciilifeform)
1000419;1590087958;watchglass;205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.142s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215
1000420;1590087958;watchglass;205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215
1000421;1590087958;watchglass;205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215 (Operator: asciilifeform)
1000422;1590087959;watchglass;143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.222s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215
1000423;1590087959;watchglass;208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.227s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215
1000424;1590087960;watchglass;213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.382s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215
1000425;1590087960;watchglass;103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.623s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631215
1000426;1590087961;watchglass;188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.679s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=631216
1000427;1590087987;BingoBoingo;192.151.158.26:8333 should be back online sometime this weekend
1000428;1590088003;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: was yours ? wat happened to it ?
1000429;1590088063;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Machine seemed to have shat the bed. Failed in a way that made it unconnectable via ssh. After trying to poke it and see if it became responsive, just had it reimaged
1000430;1590088457;asciilifeform;a, 1 of them rubbish boxen
1000431;1590088494;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: how long do these typically live for , in your experience so far ?
1000432;1590088543;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: aside from that one which has been flakey, they seem to keep going. The Costa Rican ones especially stable
1000433;1590089062;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: back when i was still keeping noades on rented boxen, found that cost of 1 that's actually performant (i.e. reasonable ssd, raid, >4G ram) begins to approach that of colo
1000434;1590089072;asciilifeform;dunno whether still true, but suspect is
1000435;1590089166;asciilifeform;one could argue that N cheapo noades adds up to 1 proper 1, but in practice (cuz trb is effectively single-tasked) this aint so
1000436;1590089171;BingoBoingo;If you go outside the US it doesn't seem to hold so much but, the US seems to have overbuilt datacenter space
1000437;1590089304;BingoBoingo;The most stable of the boxes I have colo'd are here https://www.racknation.cr/
1000438;1590089327;asciilifeform;colo'd, as in physically sent'em in ?
1000439;1590089409;asciilifeform;( traditionally that's what means 'colo'. when you own the iron. )
1000440;1590089487;BingoBoingo;Sorry, rented. Was distracted
1000441;1590089490;asciilifeform;a
1000442;1590089593;asciilifeform;their colo actually loox reasonable ( 110 $ / u / mo.  ) , tho doesn't say what costs bw, mains current, etc
1000443;1590089604;asciilifeform;wonder what half/rack costs there
1000444;1590089792;BingoBoingo;I am uncertain. The pipe on the dediboxes isn't especially ample, but they do seem to have scrubbers for the internet weather where their transit comes in from abroad
1000445;1590090022;*;asciilifeform presently convinced that the only way to test such a claim, is empirical method
1000446;1590090123;BingoBoingo;In other news, per the heathen node viewer, trb-node-iverse appears healthier than it has ever been that I recall https://archive.is/Et5uh
1000447;1590090154;*;asciilifeform admits, stopped looking at that thing since wrote own
1000448;1590402690;jurov;What is the best way to obtain working GNAT?
1000449;1590409376;shinohai;jurov: I obtained working GNAT using ave1's thing, though had to modify his build script just a bit to fix broken links from adacore site.
1000450;1590409452;jurov;shinohai: i did dig out http://ave1.org/2019/gnat-sjlj-build-project/ but there's no code?
1000451;1590409636;shinohai;ah ok I was referring to http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-no-more-usrincludex86_64-linux-gnu/ ... sorry for confusion.
1000452;1590411384;jurov;http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/the-missing-adacore-public-download-index-vintage-2018-while-it-lasts/ oh my
1000453;1590411491;shinohai;Yup it's a total mess, I did small writeup on it http://btc.info.gf/blog/wip-a-static-gnat-with-musl-nosuchlabs-edition.html
1000454;1590411522;*;shinohai still needs to clean that up, perhaps mirror all the goodies in one spot as well .....
1000455;1590412446;jurov;and there isn't some stopgap alternative keccak V implementation?
1000456;1590412537;shinohai;Aside from vk.pl I dunno. I've been using esthlos-v for some time now, I like it.
1000457;1590514688;dorion;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-25#1000455 - http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/v-in-perl-with-parsing-fix-keksum-and-starter-plus-the-ill-fated-vdiff/
1000458;1590514688;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-25 09:14:06 jurov: and there isn't some stopgap alternative keccak V implementation?
1000459;1590515181;shinohai;nb 4 teh instructions
1000460;1590516232;jurov;shinohai: tyvm
1000461;1590516816;shinohai;^.^
1000462;1590951152;jurov;It's my first report so I'm doing a draft, please read whether there aren't glaring errors/omissions: http://thebitcoin.foundation/reports/202005draft.txt
1000463;1590951249;jurov;asciilifeform: shinohai: ^
1000464;1590951360;*;shinohai reads ....
1000465;1590951492;shinohai;Nothing stands out to me jurov, looks good.
1000466;1590951514;*;shinohai likes "he Foundation does not require grandiose political
1000467;1590951516;shinohai;aspirations such as new world order to stay the steward of bitcoin technology"
1000468;1590951633;jurov;shinohai: ty :)
1000469;1590951710;thimbronion;jurov: re: map, I would like to offer the services of my search bot to the foundation.  Latest update is here: http://thimbron.com/2020/05/lekythion-search-update-additional-blogs-and-other-things/
1000470;1590951790;jurov;thimbronion: sound good, is it live somewhere?
1000471;1590951826;thimbronion;jurov: there is a prototype in #exusiae.  !s <term> to search.
1000472;1590952245;asciilifeform;jurov: loox ok
1000473;1590952417;asciilifeform;jurov: only q -- why 'co-chair' in header? afaik yer the 1 remaining chair
1000474;1590952455;jurov;afaik ben_vulpes did not resign
1000475;1590952512;asciilifeform;!q seen-anywhere ben_vulpes
1000476;1590952512;snsabot;ben_vulpes last seen in #asciilifeform on [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-05-10#1011990][2020-05-10 23:32:33]: off to mull this fpga knot-cut
1000477;1590952531;asciilifeform;^ he's alive. i rec to ask him whether he intends to participate
1000478;1590952960;jurov;asciilifeform: ty. I don't see Ben's direct involvement as anything urgent. He's aware of this and is welcome to join.
1000479;1590954057;jurov;trinque: I'd like to invite deedbot here, just for deeds, voicing not necessary
1000480;1590954249;jurov;Final report (unchanged): http://thebitcoin.foundation/reports/btcf_address_202005.txt
1000481;1590956855;asciilifeform;jurov: lemme know if there's sumthing tbf needs , that i have. in particular can provide mirroring/hosting pro bono .
1000482;1590956927;trinque;jurov: you'll need to autovoice deedbot due to the assumptions it makes about handling voice, but it should be able to live without ops
1000483;1590956959;trinque;i.e. it won't start responding in this chan until it gains voice.
1000484;1590956965;trinque;but sure, can have it join np
1000485;1590957370;asciilifeform;jurov et al : re adacorpse mirror -- jfw did bake a recipe for grabbing from orig www , but afaik the only public mirror atm is mine ; rly oughta have moar of these
1000486;1591283109;jurov;!!deed http://thebitcoin.foundation/reports/treasury_202005.txt
1000487;1591283131;jurov;oops :)
1000488;1591321021;asciilifeform;[http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3791][item of possible interest to trb experimenters]. (the subj of [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-05-22#1012822][that] thread.)
1000489;1591321022;snsabot;(asciilifeform) 2020-05-22 asciilifeform: on that subj, in other noose, asciilifeform has a working [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-05-21#1012782][ada mmap lib]. will genesis after cleanup. (found the magick pill for this old item while reading gnat docs during ffaism..)
1000490;1591321071;asciilifeform;err, wrong link; [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-05-15#1000193][that] thrd.
1000491;1591321071;snsabot;Logged on 2020-05-15 14:36:05 asciilifeform: jfw: after described this, went to write a mmap lib for ada. [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-01-22#1889489][this] was where stopped.
1000492;1591375342;asciilifeform;jurov: gonna luvv [http://ossasepia.com/2020/06/05/the-bitcoin-foundation-2014-2020/][this] bait, i suspect
1000493;1591375897;asciilifeform;diana et al are in wrong, imho, profession -- could become superstars in u.s. politics, what with the mastery of outta-context quotes, smear job, proclamations of imaginary 'failures', etc
1000494;1591377402;asciilifeform;imho, when mp was trying to 'back seat driver' tbf, it at least made ~some~ kinda sense -- d00d orig. agitated for its creation , even sent some coin (in jurov's place, i'd've sent it back a while ago), even sent in orig. tarball and a patch (db locks) . but diana ?
1000495;1591378658;jurov;Oh it's fine, I thought diana has some much bigger problem with the foundation (or me personally) than just "no outreach".
1000496;1591378690;asciilifeform;jurov: this aint ruled out by the article, imho
1000497;1591378711;asciilifeform;simply if you were to address 1 'problem', there'll be N+1th, ad infinitum, as req'd
1000498;1591378983;jurov;Whatever, I'm not going to engage with this. If mod6 and others hesitated with outreach, that does have its reasons, and these reasons are clear to anyone who has read the logs.
1000499;1591379095;jurov;(the actual logs, not mp's commented versions)
1000500;1591379290;asciilifeform;jurov: don't mistake diana's thing for 'attempt to engage'. it's transparently attempt to set up a 'jurov stole!! tbf!!' narrative for the consumption of the church-of-mp remnant crew