Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-07-15 | 2019-07-17 → ↓
mp_en_viaje: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
girlattorney: hi, thanks for voice, i'm here to ask about trb. Installed it on my PC, and after 28 days almost synced. Then it happens the following: when TRB is almost at the current height (as now, 585,647), it stays back a few blocks, like now that is at 585640, and just cannot catch the latests blocks
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, which trb / how did you install it ?
girlattorney: latest trb (currently available on thebitcoin.foundation) installed on debian 8
girlattorney: yes i've got that patch
mp_en_viaje: (which would be the "latest" trb, though obviously v-trees are a little different from traditional notions of latestness)
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, are you on a consumer link, behind a nat router etc ? or is this a dc box ?
girlattorney: nat router + ssh tunnel to VPS to have fixed IP
girlattorney: i don't get why just the latest blocks are soooo slow to fetch
mp_en_viaje: this is actually not what should be happening ; if you stick around there'll prolly be a barage of questions as asciilifeform trinque mod6 & all wake up.
girlattorney: ok, going to register my key
girlattorney: btw i noticed that trb only connects and fetch blocks from other trbs, so i don't get what happens with the other core nodes
mp_en_viaje: admitting they exist in the first place.
mp_en_viaje: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
mp_en_viaje: you'll need a rating from someone deedbot knows to be able to voice yourself ; it's inconvenient for me to give you one cuz im travelling ; but patience, i suspect someone else might in short order.
girlattorney: ok i'm gonna wait. I'm just interested in what happens with TRB nodes: with a public site that list public nodes (with 8333 port exposed, site is bitnodes dot something), i checked and it says that there are 8 TRB nodes.
girlattorney: so if only these nodes are interacting with themselves, where they fetch the blocks from?
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, your notion of identity is not adequate for the situation you're dealing with.
mp_en_viaje: what do you call "a node" ? is it an ip-port combo ? you can trivially set up your own box to be two nodes in this sense ; i have boxes with a whole block c allocated, how would you know what's going on /
mp_en_viaje: consider it from the other pov : if tomorrow the aliens land, do yo uthen say "the aliens are... well... three guys" ? just because three guys are all the aliens can be bothered t oshow you does not mean "that's all there is"
mp_en_viaje: the bitnode notion of a node is about the same as the electoral notion of a "voter" : meaningful for just as long nobody gives a shit. then it's all "m00t won time's man of the year".
girlattorney: well, for me a node is ip + port combo that gives me blocks and eventually transactions
mp_en_viaje: well, for you there's then no answer to the "how do trb nodes get blocks" question you had.
girlattorney: if it's just an ip + port it can be a "fake" node. What interest me is the fact that TRB seems to ignore the nodes with a user agent different than "therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88". I even tried to just have a "addnode=*corenode" and in some odd way it finds a way to communicate only with the TRB nodes
mp_en_viaje: the problem is deeper than just the user agent ; fake bitcoin nodes send out all sorts of spam and otherwise misbehave. it's not possible to meaningfully communicate with one automatically, it requires skilled human hands.
mp_en_viaje: there's years of discussion about this scattered through the logs ; have you found the logs yet ?
girlattorney: tried to read them, but I haven't found a significant keyword to search with this specific topic.
girlattorney: btw i'm very grateful that still exist a client without segwit and without other useless crap. so glad to be able to almost sync it
mp_en_viaje: (prb is the name given to the one remaining group of scammers masquerading as bitcoin developers, in memory of their "power rangers" heritage. numerous others have meanwhile discontinued, too many to merit enumeration.)
mp_en_viaje: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
mp_en_viaje: (the whole "power rangers" thing started with an event in 2013, when some usg agents masquerading as bitcoin developers (mike hearn, etc) wilfully introduced a bug which split the network while the other morons (wuile, maxwell, etc) failed to notice. the thing had to be undone through miner collu
mp_en_viaje: sion, demonstrating what the usg thought at the time a viable avenue of attack, that i had to spend an inordinate amt of slave time and assorted resources to bolt shut for them, and so following.)
girlattorney: thanks for the insight, i'm reading the log
mp_en_viaje: and in other lines, what's a girl attorney's life like ?
girlattorney: a very rich life i suppose (not my job, I have to deal with my ex's one)
mp_en_viaje: that didn't parse
mp_en_viaje: in other sads, i'm reading internet "science" : "If there were no Sun (or other external energy source) atmospheric temperature would approach absolute zero. As a result there would be almost no atmospheric pressure on any planet -> PV = nRT."
mp_en_viaje: holy hell what, wtf "crusoe social philosophy" is that supposed to be! even with no sun, the gas would still be trapped by gravity, thus there'd still be a pressure, thus there'd still be a temperature, wtf "absolute zero". atmospheric pressure is trivially given by the ~height~ of air column, not by the fucking temperature holy hell these people.
girlattorney: if it could interest, from 0 to block 584k, TRB has written to disk almost 8 TB
mp_en_viaje: there's probably some room for optimization wrt disk usage ; but that's rather wating for the more comprehensive trb-fs thing
girlattorney: and last thing that i found a little annoying: no exportprivkey in any form, just dealing with wallet.dat to import/export private keys
mp_en_viaje: yeah, wallet actually needs some work.
mp_en_viaje: wanna write a patch ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922497 << 'stays back' as in always 3-4 behind what someone else's (who's?) node height ? or perma-wedged at height h ?
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 10:44 girlattorney: hi, thanks for voice, i'm here to ask about trb. Installed it on my PC, and after 28 days almost synced. Then it happens the following: when TRB is almost at the current height (as now, 585,647), it stays back a few blocks, like now that is at 585640, and just cannot catch the latests blocks
girlattorney: I have little coding skills, but definitely is something that i'm willing to do when i learn to write in C
asciilifeform: ( if it's the former, this is not in any sense a problem, you can still operate )
asciilifeform: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: !!rate girlattorney 1 trb n00b / new blood
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i expect she's just comparing to blockchain.info or w/e other webwallet
asciilifeform: !!v 4147FF6CA25D12780FEF4747850614B76EEE0A94CE19F61A29BF9287B867028C
deedbot: asciilifeform rated girlattorney 1 << trb n00b / new blood
girlattorney: asciilifeform so: currently from this site https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/?q=therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99 i see that the height is 585654. My node is at 585641
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i also expect. and this is 'teachable moment' :
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, ok, so no c, but what skills do you have ?
girlattorney: i can use other source if there is another site more realiable
mp_en_viaje: top of chain is i ndeed 654.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: the various 'blockchain walker' sites do tend to be connected to many nodes at a time, on industrial pipe, so naturally will tend to get new blox slightly faster than human, in a residential pipe
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje i know a little bash, i used to compile bitcoin core until knowing TRB and my project would be to compile TRB for an arm board, to eat less energy than my PC (the ARM board would be an hardkernel Odroid hc1)
asciilifeform: girlattorney: good news, long ago i fixed it so builds 100% clean on arm (32 and 64bit both)
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you'll need a board with at least 2GB tho
girlattorney: asciilifeform thanks, i'm going to search on logs if you haven't a direct link. The hc1 is 2gb indeed
asciilifeform: girlattorney: mod6's current snapshot will build and run.
asciilifeform: (i.e. what you have.)
girlattorney: it's an arm board with a sata slot, so i can attach a 1TB ssd and let TRB running for a couple of years
asciilifeform: which board btw ?
girlattorney: odroid hc1
asciilifeform: decent, reportedly similar to rk
asciilifeform: hey look at that, mp_en_viaje , finally 'pogo' with 2GB
girlattorney: i saw the rockchip, it was more expensive and i found these HC1s (a couple) used from a local guy that sold them to me at a price
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, you can just use eatblock, have it synced from known-good chain in a day or so
asciilifeform: looks like potential replacement for the current rk , even.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, ok, bash. but... do you have your own practice ? or work for a firm ?
girlattorney: @mp_en_viaje nothing public, after reading trilema and some logs I wanted to open a blog to report my stuff, but haven't got yet my ip space
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922523 << trb doesn't ignore, the (prb-powered) 'blockchain sites' ignore.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 11:27 girlattorney: if it's just an ip + port it can be a "fake" node. What interest me is the fact that TRB seems to ignore the nodes with a user agent different than "therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88". I even tried to just have a "addnode=*corenode" and in some odd way it finds a way to communicate only with the TRB nodes
asciilifeform: it does disconnect peers who spew garbage, though, and that's ~90% of the supposed nodes on the net
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922540 << this is pretty odd, current chain weighs ~280G
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:07 girlattorney: if it could interest, from 0 to block 584k, TRB has written to disk almost 8 TB
girlattorney: asciilifeform that's something interesting: once (not now, a couple of days ago) i was able to get to the general height, thanks to a couple of restart that allowed me to get those last blocks (it seems that when TRB starts, always download instantly 10-15 blocks). Basically when it was at the network height (synced) it was also connecting to core
girlattorney: nodes (prb) and other nodes that first were banned from
asciilifeform: if you were looking at linux disk stats, you may have box with swappism enabled. (or do you actually have a 8TB drive, that trb somehow filled ?!)
girlattorney: asciilifeform i know, indeed is 280 GB, i was saying that the total write process from 0 to 584k is 8TB, i expressed myself badly
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trb (for time being) retains the classical 'ask peers for new peers' mechanism, so unless you hand-curate the peers (most trb folx do) you will inevitably connect to garbage nodes at the statistically expected rate
asciilifeform: girlattorney: seems that your box has swapping then
girlattorney: if i do a df -h on my box i have also 270-280GB occupied, not 8TB
asciilifeform: disable swap; i have found that on 2GB+ boxen trb , despite heavy mem fragging, will not overrun 2GB
asciilifeform: ( swapism -- nukes ssd quite quickly )
mp_en_viaje: trb does not need (and does not much benefit) from swapping.
asciilifeform: actively un-benefits.
mp_en_viaje: iirc she was on a vps tho. os not exposed to her.
girlattorney: well, i've used a 1TB consumer SSD to sync, rated for 200 TB written before die
asciilifeform: aa hrm i misread (still waking up), assumed she's on that luscious arm box.
girlattorney: so i just used 2-3% life of the ssd, not a big issue (i'll only sync once hopefully)
asciilifeform: girlattorney: in my flagship trb box, i found that 1T samsung ('standard', rather than 'pro', not yet tested 'pro' series) ssd runs for just short of 2yrs prior to write cycle exhaustion
girlattorney: then it remains read only or also smash the content already written inside?
asciilifeform: larger unit (formatted to e.g. half capacity) will live longer, in principle, as more blocks between which controller can spread write cycles
asciilifeform: girlattorney: 'samsung' will typically go read-only; cheaper/chinesiums will usually turn into 100% brick , when exhausted
asciilifeform: ( in either event, you will no longer have bootable linux box, if you want the contents will have to plug it into another )
girlattorney: @asciilifeform thanks for the info, i'll make my backup on tape before that event
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trb is its own backup, think about it
asciilifeform: plug in another node, it is automatic real-time backup of the other..
girlattorney: it really sucks after 28 days of sync starting from zero, knowing that a lot of nodes are hostile and nowadays nobody ain't giving away bandwith
asciilifeform: girlattorney: what usg did to bitcoin net, in p2p theoretical parlance is known as 'sibyl attack'
asciilifeform: i.e. fleet of garbage nodes, set up on the cheap
girlattorney: in a near future i think that it could have sense to have a TRB marketplace, where you can buy your ready-to-deploy box
asciilifeform: as you can tell, however, bitcoin still functions; simply it requires genuine node operators to do a little bit of hand curation of peer selection
girlattorney: even if you are in NY and the boxes ships from sydney, with DHL the pre-synced box would appear well before a standard sync
asciilifeform: girlattorney: i attempted to bake exactly such in '14 , but the iron wasn't there yet ( we got a large supply of certain arm box, but only 256MB of physical mem, and only ~then~ found that without a total rewrite, trb cannot be sat down in 256M or even 1G )
asciilifeform: !#s pogo
a111: 1185 results for "pogo", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pogo
asciilifeform: ^ see also
girlattorney: asciilifeform in 14 i suppose that the blockchain was in the order of 10 GBs, very easy to move even with crappy WAN pipes
girlattorney: now it's a real pain
asciilifeform: naa was already 100+
asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje actually has a circa-2014 snapshot hosted somewhere
girlattorney: now we are sitting on 270GB mostly well splitted in educated 2gb blk00*, but then there is a thick load of 50gb named blkindex that fucks up everything, cause file hosting generally doesn't like these weights
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, the problem with your idea is that you can't really buy an identity.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: in my experience, trb (with my 'aggression' patch) syncs from 0 in roughly 3wks, on a decent (fiber) pipe. however, last did this yr+ ago, and unsurprisingly the interval will only ever increase, as the chain gets heavier (on avg., grows 1000000 bytes erry 10min, recall)
mp_en_viaje: either you are skilled, or you aren't. if you aren't, buying the glasses i wore or the bed i fucked in won't do much for you.
asciilifeform: !!up girlattorney
deedbot: girlattorney voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you should be able to self-voice now, btw, after i rated
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trb on public toilet 'vps' hosting is generally a nonstarter
girlattorney: you can split it, etc.... but nothing beats having your box ready to be attached to ethernet and sync 100-200 blocks
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje ok, so i declare myself skilled!
mp_en_viaje: lol so then get yourself a proper box, and have fun.
asciilifeform: that's the gold standard, yes, physical box, w/ ssd, running strictly trb, and on serious (preferably industrial, but top-of-class residential fiber also worx) pipe
girlattorney: i have a physical box, never said i was hosting. Just saying that if you want to move across the internet a synced node, today is a pain
mp_en_viaje is satisfied that the "i'm 0 to a dozen or so blocks behind at all times, varying" is mostly due to scheduling issues related to the visor management of the vps and its resources.
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, so wait, is this delayed trb running on a vps or on its own colocated box ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: slow pipe will do it, and likewise slow disk
girlattorney: own colocated box
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, and likewise slow netstack unwind and all sorta things.
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, hmm, that is pretty weird then.
asciilifeform: ~95% of cpu cycles (as measured by asciilifeform in '16) of trb, is spend waiting for disk.
asciilifeform: recall also that even during 'cold start sync', node is still attempting to operate as a node. it will be bombarded with tx from the peers, and (unsurprisingly) will walk the db and typically not find the referenced block , at given time (cuz it doesn't have it yet)
asciilifeform: this adds up to quite heavy load.
asciilifeform: trb, unlike prb, does not accept blocks 'on credit' (i.e. ones for whom the antecedent block is not yet on the disk)
asciilifeform: and ditto tx for whom the referenced output is not yet in any received block
asciilifeform: this means that it rejects almost all inputs during initial couple of weeks of operation.
girlattorney: asciilifeform and for this reason i think that in a couple of years it won't have sense anymore doing a cold start
asciilifeform: rejects -- expensively.
girlattorney: instead the newcomer will need to buy a premade box
girlattorney: that's my forecast
asciilifeform: girlattorney: it is already rare for trb people to do 'cold start', usually they 'light smoke' from existing
asciilifeform: but 'cold start' is important test of 'network health'
mp_en_viaje: her idea's not without some merit, one could just buy the datafiles.
mp_en_viaje: test it on their own software.
mp_en_viaje: ~this could even be s.nsa product~ you know. "we ship you either 1tb ssd or 2tb ssd formatted for 1tb with the current blockchain"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i actually suggested this, in '17
asciilifeform: !#s cement trb
mp_en_viaje: i recall. but now there's actual demand, lol.
mp_en_viaje: you wanna do it ?
asciilifeform: hrm. it's in log.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: defo, all of the moving parts already in place for it. ( and apparently nao there is a $49 pogo-cum-2GB ? )
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, you wanna buy it ?
girlattorney: i also plan to sell them, because i have some people that i know irl that want their node but they do not want to wait 20 or 30 days
girlattorney: of course there is some trust in the middle
mp_en_viaje: a, i guess no treally, if she's already up to 580k
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, so sell his, get 2 bitcents or w/e for your trouble
mp_en_viaje: actually, i guess nothing like 2 bitcents, it ain
mp_en_viaje: actually, i guess nothing like 2 bitcents, it ain't 2014 anymore.
asciilifeform: girlattorney, mp_en_viaje : the fundamental problem is that bitcoin per se is, arguably, an exercise in 'can avoid getting all blocks from 1 trusted peer ?'
asciilifeform: if answer is 'no', then net is seriously ill. if 'yes can avoid', then why buy canned db.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know what ? the right way to go about this would be to offer pizarro customers pre-populated disks on demand.
girlattorney: 200 USD? that's the cost of the bare hw, (arm + ssd). At least 400 USD
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, i was discussing your cut if you sell his.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: this is easy to do, only rub is that there are already 3 ( 4? ) trb nodes at piz, all on 1 ip block, and sharing a quite modest pipe.
asciilifeform: trb btw still retains the ancient mechanism where 'try to avoid connecting to >1 peer on same 24block'
mp_en_viaje: yes, but still, dc delivery better than mail delivery.
mp_en_viaje: let the buyer do what he will with the chain, is the diea
asciilifeform: it's a notbad idea. BingoBoingo i think you already have the parts.
mp_en_viaje: i think you should put this in your offer / sales materials. proeminently.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ^
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje in my case i'm talking about 50-60 years people that want to be part of BTC without messing technically. Like, i go to their premises, attach the ethernet cable and explain how to send/receive/backup and then flee
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trb is more like kalashnikov than television set. i.e. can be made 'user friendly' only to a point.
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, "being part of btc without messing technically" is like having sex without getting naked.
mp_en_viaje: i don't care what those people "want", or think they do -- they can't be part of btc because i say so.
asciilifeform: even if mp_en_viaje hadn't said, illiterate folx still 'cannot be part', they will kill selves with elementary coarse error of pilotage
mp_en_viaje: the whole fucking point of being part of btc in the first place is so that your life as you used to prior live it becomes strictly impossible.
asciilifeform: witness e.g. the various folx who publicly nervous breakdown from 'i threw out disk with keys, could have been rich!111' etc
girlattorney: i get your point, i just sell them because i get my %
mp_en_viaje: more powa to you.
girlattorney: (want to sell, still haven't compiled on ARM)
asciilifeform: girlattorney: it builds and runs 100% on e.g. rk3328 (64bit arm) w/out changes.
asciilifeform: if you have a working toolchain now, you can build and be up & running in 40min. or so.
girlattorney: crosscompile on x86_64 is too hassle or it's worth the time to change the parameters on makefile?
asciilifeform: girlattorney: mod6's build system ( based on asciilifeform's earlier 2015 'rotor' (see logs) ) builds first a frozen-in-amber gcc & friends, ~then~ the depds (db etc) , ~then~ trb per se
asciilifeform: i.e. repeatable build, doesn't care what's on your box currently
asciilifeform: no need to cross compile unless you're building for something too small to run gcc itself ( and chances are it won't run trb , if so small , as with 'pogo' )
girlattorney: so i can just cp -r the dir already compiled on x86 on the arm board?
asciilifeform: instead get working linux and toolchain on the arm box, then build w/ mod6's system.
asciilifeform: you carry out mod6's build recipe ~on~ the arm box
girlattorney: ah ok now i get it
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you will definitely want to talk to BingoBoingo when he wakes up, about www hosting.
asciilifeform was about to ask 'so what kinda attourney...' but noticed that mp_en_viaje already ask
girlattorney: this is debug log at start
girlattorney: 10.* is address of the NAT box
girlattorney: 5.* is the address specified with myip
asciilifeform: looks like you're behind nat aha
girlattorney: of course i am
asciilifeform: for 'adult' trb node, you will want to route public ip to it
girlattorney: but i'm using a tunnel
girlattorney: still it gets the local address aside from the specified myip
asciilifeform: worth to see whether it actually works ( can connect to the public addr from another net ? )
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you gotta set the public addr ~manually~
asciilifeform: -myip=your.public.ip.addr
girlattorney: yes, i'm able to connect externally, my question is: can i tell TRB to not announce my local address?
asciilifeform: like that.
girlattorney: already doing that in the log that i linked
asciilifeform: so what makes you think it is announcing your local ip ?
girlattorney: because is in the log
girlattorney: first there is a addrLocalHost, then another addrLocalHost
girlattorney: when i ran TRB in a box with a public routable address, there also was the double addrLocalHost, but always with the same public routable address
girlattorney: behind a nat there is no way to tell TRB to ignore the 1st addrLocalHost
asciilifeform: girlattorney: feel free to submit vpatch for it.
asciilifeform: i will sign (and expect that other folx also will)
girlattorney: i hope so, cause i was starting to thinking that TRB getting stuck fetching the last blocks could because the local address
asciilifeform: girlattorney: the gold standard for 'is my trb node publicly reachable?' is : to connect to it from another trb node.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: which is why you want to advertise at least 1 of your nodes , in your fleet, publicly, to other trb folx
asciilifeform: the place for this, traditionally, is here, in #t.
girlattorney: currently i'm trying to obtain IP space, after i'll announce my node
asciilifeform: why incidentally , do you need the tunnel ? thoroughly rotten residential isp that blocks all ports ?
girlattorney: it blocks none, but it's a dynamical IP
asciilifeform: how much dynamic ?
girlattorney: so everytime I cycle the modem i also need to cycle my box
girlattorney: to change the myip parameter
asciilifeform: e.g. asciilifeform's , is in principle 'dynamic', but in practice changes 1 a year or so
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, do you happen to have handy where in log i outlined strategy, "first, deny usg use of network, then deny use of land" etc ?
asciilifeform: tunnel method worx, but imposes considerably overhead, girlattorney , you will want to get a serious pipe. i don't imagine it is a painful expense for attourney
a111: Logged on 2017-03-26 15:03 mp_en_viaje: basically a novel vector of imperial attack seems to be this "let's take republican items and ~EXPAND~ the downstream so that siberian river attack is then feasible".
girlattorney: and for me it's a pain cause i'm behind a VDSL connection. No FTTH. Copper attenuation is still a real thing and the modem likes to reboot
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if you can recall coupla details re thread, i can prolly remember it
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-24#1211049 is either reference or early disclosure, wtf where did i put the cannonical form
a111: Logged on 2015-07-24 00:06 mircea_popescu: in any case : the front against the usg in the cyber world is only going to strengthen the way it's going. within a decade we will see full area denial in the sense that no govt anything will still run online.
asciilifeform: aa aa, i read it backwards, thought it was re 'usg deny' rather than 'deny usg' lol
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you will definitely want a civilized pipe, when working with bitcoin , it is not avoidable
girlattorney: with civilized you mean ftth?
asciilifeform: ip-over-dead-goat doesn't cut it, people have tried
asciilifeform: girlattorney: fiber, yes.
girlattorney: i asked to the local fiberman, they quoted me 5k USD to dig up to my premise and lay fiber
girlattorney: still too much expensive
asciilifeform: get quote from 2-3 telcos or whatever is to be had where you are
asciilifeform: 5k is ultracheap btw , for a dig
girlattorney: considering that government run it for free if you live enough to wait for them
asciilifeform: lol can wait for century.
girlattorney: not for free, they pay it with debt, but still as user i get the product
asciilifeform: as you pointed out, 'get' if live enough. and it will be a 'maybe-works' product, rather than what you want, necessarily.
asciilifeform: you don't stand in bread queue and eat from gov.operated 'soup kitchen' from hobos; why wouldja do this for net pipe.
girlattorney: just because a couple blocks distant from me they actually have laid fiber
asciilifeform: at risk of repeating -- 5k is a steal for fiber dig.
girlattorney: it depends where you live
asciilifeform: it is cheaper than moving house.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-02 04:34 mircea_popescu: so, strategically, we (as in, humans, people, we) are confronted with an adversary (ie, socialist state, usg, aliens, the devil incarnate, pure evil, etc) that predicates its relevancy upon targeted computing denial (see http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-enforcement/ ; and also http://trilema.com/2015/mika-epstein-aka-ipstenu-is-a-thoroughly-clueless-poser/ re the ddos "we won't fix" and so on )
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 21:37 mircea_popescu: which i suppose is the main strategic direction of tmsr - in a few years they either pay us to "secure" all systems or else the systems burn down.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-25 18:07 mircea_popescu: so, to get on the same page here, the general strategy is, 1. construct undisruptable comms ; 2. disrupt usg&friends comms ; 3. disrupt usg&friends physical presence.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 13:33 asciilifeform: ip-over-dead-goat doesn't cut it, people have tried
asciilifeform: diana_coman: lolyes. i also like 'gas modem'.
asciilifeform knows several people stuck on what may as well be gas modem
diana_coman: better than coal modem, presumably
girlattorney: in sweden 5k could be peanuts, in portugal a year of working of an average worker, in nigeria life savings
asciilifeform: girlattorney: you did not specify your geography, so i assumed usa (not because always assume usa, but because it is country with world's worst bandwidth market. as in, behind nigeria, congo, et al )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, for example, in usa. where for 5k you can not even usually have the water pipe to your house fixed.
asciilifeform: much less fiber dig.
diana_coman: in my many wtf from the dev.to expedition: most (and by this I do mean 90%) of the profiles in there list "looking for work" but then not even one of those actually inquired there at "come work on what matters", not even a "where?" or anything (and they saw it, yes, the "heart" it but won't say a peep)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: in pleebland 'lookign for work' is code for 'looking for money' normally
girlattorney: but US is a strange world. You get quoted 80k for a day in hospital, then 8k cause your healthcare plan has negotiated the price
diana_coman: might be looking out for work as in to make sure it doesn't actually find them
asciilifeform: girlattorney: and the treatment for the 80/8k will consist of 8cent aspirin.
girlattorney: lol... so true
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, good for you oing through it, anyways.
mp_en_viaje: girlattorney, are you in the states then ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, wtf was that "moment when soviet realises soviet system rotten" ? not morozov moment lol, but what ? -ov something
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: ah, I'm not complaining really, it's ...another world, what can I say; just still puzzled as to how they reason there
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: navrozov
asciilifeform: !#s navrozov
mp_en_viaje: kurchatov!
asciilifeform: anti-kurchatov lol
mp_en_viaje: hehehe
a111: Logged on 2013-04-30 01:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on the death of academia: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/07/my-navrozov-moments.html (moldbug)
girlattorney: mp_en_viaje no
mp_en_viaje: it's much better thsi way
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:29 girlattorney: asciilifeform that's something interesting: once (not now, a couple of days ago) i was able to get to the general height, thanks to a couple of restart that allowed me to get those last blocks (it seems that when TRB starts, always download instantly 10-15 blocks). Basically when it was at the network height (synced) it was also connecting to core
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:52 asciilifeform: trb, unlike prb, does not accept blocks 'on credit' (i.e. ones for whom the antecedent block is not yet on the disk)
mp_en_viaje: sooo... this month's been the largest trilema outpour (by count) since... like 2017 or so i think. go me.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-5-things-you-need-to-understand-about-wikileaks-before-you-celebrate-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - 5 Things You Need To Understand About Wikileaks Before You Celebrate. Adnotated.
mp_en_viaje: and, coincidentally, willing to bet "Iren Korkishko" is exact clone of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-14#1922441
a111: Logged on 2019-07-14 15:17 mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, in other lulz, nicole dredged up local blondy ex-mech engineer turned java developer (sorry mocky, chick never heard of you). she intends to start her out outsourcing comp (because hates working with idiots ; yet if challenged "what you gonna do when rich ?" she wants to come up with some garbage sorting solution, because idiots do ~nothing but produce garbage and she doesn't understand the beheadingof
mp_en_viaje: ie, i'll be in kiev towards the end of the month, and she'll http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-205.565-213.535 all over self, and that's that, another dead soul for the count.
mp_en_viaje: basically, the situation among the youth would be, ten milion walflowers waiting patiently around imaginary walls, and 0 dancing getting done on the dance floor (let alone fucking holy god omg).
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, anyway, you can't possibly spend your life supporting random dorky platform. get a script to enumerate users and hi them automatically, or somesuch.
asciilifeform: oh ha finally to ukrs
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: myeah re won't spend life supporting them for sure; re script tbh it's such a pile of "open source" that I'm not even sure I'll spend my life making a script for it.
mp_en_viaje: speaking of which, i wonder what happened to phf
asciilifeform: !#seen phf
a111: 2019-07-06 <phf> that will make it apparent that you're still walking Input in order, one by one, because right now offset/ptr combination make it seem like you might be stepping by more than 1 and taking slices
asciilifeform: apparently comes up for air.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, there doesn't seem to be much value there tbh. the main item with these is "do i have any reason to suspect there may be live humans invovled anywhere". which is why fetlife and not okcupid, forinstance, to take that example.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: there have been so far at least 2 coming over into #ossasepia and by the looks of it possibly alive
mp_en_viaje: ah ? i stand corrected then.
diana_coman: myeah, if only I had a logger in there so I can point to logs...
mp_en_viaje is not the definitive eye in such matters, for one thing little practice and for the other i suspect i have mild case of asciilifeformism.
asciilifeform: speaking of which, from old compendium of 'militarisms' : new division commander shows up, and , to the troops lined up on platz, utters : 'i will discipline just like you know from kindergarten : some to tribunal, some will be shot in front of the regiment... '
mp_en_viaje: they didn't shoot offenders in front of kindergarten where you went ?
asciilifeform recall mp_en_viaje's 'glass kindergartener sculpture' piece
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922678 << This is an interesting possibility
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:58 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know what ? the right way to go about this would be to offer pizarro customers pre-populated disks on demand.
BingoBoingo: !Q later tell girlattorney It appears you are looking to set up a blog. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922579 I can get you a place to blog set up by the end of the day http://pizarroisp.net/shared-hosting/
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:26 girlattorney: @mp_en_viaje nothing public, after reading trilema and some logs I wanted to open a blog to report my stuff, but haven't got yet my ip space
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:24 asciilifeform: looks like potential replacement for the current rk , even.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: on examination, loox like may not be, cuz dun boot 'blobless' like rk
asciilifeform: but -- cheap. and 2G ram/GB nic/sata/etc. potentially useful, for, as original poster , trb.
asciilifeform: would rather not have'em at piz tho unless bootloader can be neutered.
girlattorney: BingoBoingo how much for a shared hosting and how much for a dedicated box with an ipv4 annualy?
lobbesbot: girlattorney: Sent 12 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> It appears you are looking to set up a blog. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922579 I can get you a place to blog set up by the end of the day http://pizarroisp.net/shared-hosting/
BingoBoingo: girlattorney: A year of shared hosting runs 0.0216 BTC, we are a bit squeezed for vacant machines until asciilifeform brings some more down here. Any particular configuations you favor for a dedicated box?
asciilifeform: there's a vacant rk, prolly adequate for anything short of trb node
girlattorney: well the prices are a high for my budget, will check if here there somebody that want to group buy a node in uruguay to split the cost
asciilifeform: i admit i'm curious now, what kinda budget is it where <100 u.s/mo is 'high' . and where exactly girlattorney has been getting physical box colo that costs substantially less.
BingoBoingo: No one could have predicted the biodegradable bags would rot in storage!
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/ukrainian-maidan-government-aligned-militia-caught-smuggling-missile-in-italy-threatening-salvini-assassination/ << Qntra -- Ukrainian Maid...ment Aligned Militia Caught Smuggling Missile In Italy, Threatening Salvini Assassination
BingoBoingo: Also in local news: general being cut from 15 to 12, Colonels from 200 to 120, and why should soldiers be obligated to obey? https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Con-los-votos-del-Frente-Amplio-y-el-PI-se-aprobo-la-reforma-de-la-ley-organica-militar-uc724425
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in things that floated through here, Candian printer edition https://archive.is/CA9vk
mp_en_viaje: phf, aite, do you want somebody to pick you up at the airport or anything ?
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922859 << afaik there's this "virtual-colo" thing, used to be 99 some years back, prolly decayed to 49 or something by now
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 17:54 asciilifeform: i admit i'm curious now, what kinda budget is it where <100 u.s/mo is 'high' . and where exactly girlattorney has been getting physical box colo that costs substantially less.
BingoBoingo: Ah, the manage through a panel thing where the folks selling swear you have a whole box to yourself.
mp_en_viaje: "gotta compete with bezos" angle for the independents, strengthened by "customer so dumb, literally can not tell the difference"
mp_en_viaje: justabout
asciilifeform: hrm i thought in 'linode' , operator succumbed to alcoholism
mp_en_viaje: no, linode was one of these usgistani shits. back in 2010 pretended to be a major player in hosting market.
mp_en_viaje: were taken out 2015-2016, whined about it copiously but ultimately ineffectually.
asciilifeform: possibly i was thinking about 'bitvps'
asciilifeform: re : honest 'virtual hosts' , and re asciilifeform's backlog of outputs to be published : i have a working kernel and userland for that mips emu . runs as buildroot, a la 'rotor' . will be featured in conveyor article.
asciilifeform: orig. author of 'cmips' btw was of 0 use, i wrote to him a while back and not long ago he answerd 'i lost hdd, lost errything'
asciilifeform: so ended up learning from 0 , how to port linux kernel to a never-seen 'machine'
asciilifeform: also in the process made sad discovery : previously asciilifeform always pronounced 'gcc 4.9 is usable' but! turns out some time b/w 4.8.1 and 4.9 , someone silently sabotaged support for classical mips1
asciilifeform: ditto in buildroot, some time (remains to be established) b/w 2013 ver and current, also nixed mips1
asciilifeform: gcc 4.9.x apparently WILL emit mips-r2-istic instrs no matter what flags are given.
asciilifeform: the arch illustrated by the sim is simple enuff that one could fit it in, e.g., even very modest fpga. which means that nao we have reproducible kernel, gcc, toolchain, etc. for machine that can be baked , if needed, on demand, in whatever qty.
asciilifeform: in re ffa : ch20 and most of 21 written. but all of it paused atm , making detailed map/plan.
asciilifeform: re that kernel -- someone gotta genesis a kernel. ( if no one has any constructive input re ~which~ one, then i will, and it will be somewhat arbitrary. ) atm that patch is a bad-old-style patch, rather than vpatch.
asciilifeform: fwiw it lies down cleanly on errything 3.x--present, afaik
asciilifeform will bbl, meat
mod6: Hey there, I've been pretty pinned down with some secular things in the past 10 days or so. Still catching up on logs+blogs here... saw the discussion earlier from girlattorney.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922592 << ah! ok, had me worried there for a moment.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:31 girlattorney: if i do a df -h on my box i have also 270-280GB occupied, not 8TB
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922542 << There is a patch that is not part of the main TRB vtree that does this, but it'll have to be patched in manually. And it most likely would need to be "re-ground" to apply cleanly ontop of your current pressed tree. However, if we can find a time where we could work together on it, I might be able to help you get that part going.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:12 girlattorney: and last thing that i found a little annoying: no exportprivkey in any form, just dealing with wallet.dat to import/export private keys
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922545 << I have found that if you -connect to a single (trusted TMSR~ node, for instnace http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html) node to get caught up -- it'll get within 5 blocks of the head of the chain, then it'll start going through all of the mempool stuff. Eventually, it should catch up; however, if one is in a hurry to get those last 5 blocks sync'd, you c
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 12:15 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922497 << 'stays back' as in always 3-4 behind what someone else's (who's?) node height ? or perma-wedged at height h ?
mod6: an issue the 'stop' command to bitcoind, wait until it closes properly, then start back up with -addnode for a handful of trusted nodes (see command in http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html in section 0x23 or at the very bottom 0x0D), which should sync you the rest of the way pretty quickly.
mod6: Couple of other things that I wanted to mention quick, girlattorney: Just be sure to make frequent backups of your entire blockchain. Be aware also that TRB does not handle power-outtages very nicely as BDB can get corrupted; UPS and the like can help to mitigate this.
mod6: One could connect a TRB node through a SSH tunnel (to a remote endpoint/host with a static IP) so you don't broadcast your IP.
mod6: This would basically involve one to set up ssh-key based authentication to the remote host, then creating the tunnel with something like this:
mod6: ssh -o ServerAliveInterval=5 -o ServerAliveCountMax=3 -i ~/.ssh/key_for_remote_host_id_rsa girlattorney@A.B.C.D -D 127.0.0.1:56565
mod6: Which will now allow you to tunnel over localhost port 56565...
mod6: Then when you start up TRB, you can do that like so:
mod6: LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=127.0.0.1 -proxy=127.0.0.1:56565 -connect=<SOME_REPUBLICAN_IP> -lows -verifyall &
mod6: Then it should tunnel you through that remote host to connect to the bitcoin network and get blocks. Keep in mind that the example above is just that, and it also uses -connect, which is intended for connecting to a single node. You'll want to use -addnode for when connecting to more than one, and standard operation
mod6: Anyway, just throwing it out there as an alternative for you.
mod6: cheers, bbl.
asciilifeform: mod6: as i parsed it, she already is using tunnel.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in shitgnomery, '2013.11-rc3, Released November 26th, 2013 Fixes all over the tree. Architecture: Mark MIPS I, II, III and IV as deprecated.' ('buildroot' www)
asciilifeform: this wouldn't even be interesting ('hey use pre-castration snapshot') except that this snip pre-dates addition of musl to buildroot.
asciilifeform: near as i can guess, this was done in order to help kill loongson sinomips.
asciilifeform: ... and mips in general. ( how do you suppose the ball-of-shit arm arch became dominant. to this day chinese pay tribute to britain for 'permission' to make arm. why ? at one time mips had patent, but expired in 2009 or so. and in march of '19 orig. mips verilog entirely opensoresd and made public... yet 0 fast mips on the market. guess why. )
asciilifeform: aaand gcc broke support around same time.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922895 << recall that mp_en_viaje prescribed that the wallet oughta be sawed off into own proggy. imho this is entirely Right Thing. but no one has yet found the free hands with which to do, afaik
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 22:16 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922542 << There is a patch that is not part of the main TRB vtree that does this, but it'll have to be patched in manually. And it most likely would need to be "re-ground" to apply cleanly ontop of your current pressed tree. However, if we can find a time where we could work together on it, I might be able to help you get that part going.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922900 << imho it is foolish to take down a trb noad (i.e. allow it to fall behind) simply to copy the db. the best backup for a trb noad is a 2nd, 3rd,... node.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 22:25 mod6: Couple of other things that I wanted to mention quick, girlattorney: Just be sure to make frequent backups of your entire blockchain. Be aware also that TRB does not handle power-outtages very nicely as BDB can get corrupted; UPS and the like can help to mitigate this.
asciilifeform: realtime auto-backup, what better backup could anything ever have.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-16#1922900 << i dunthink i've ever witnessed the corrupted db (tho i believe the folx who have.) possibly because i have never run node off anything other than always-on sinusoidal inverter ups, tho
a111: Logged on 2019-07-16 22:25 mod6: Couple of other things that I wanted to mention quick, girlattorney: Just be sure to make frequent backups of your entire blockchain. Be aware also that TRB does not handle power-outtages very nicely as BDB can get corrupted; UPS and the like can help to mitigate this.
asciilifeform: for the smaller boxen (various arm, 'pcengine', similar) you can actually put a 12v lead-acid in line with the dc connector. and never suffer 'oops, mains flicker' db corrupt.
asciilifeform: mod6: re backups -- if one absolutely must make a hand-cranked copy of a node, the correct method is 'dumpblock' (on donor end) and 'eatblock' (on recipient) , dun require taking down either.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> aaand gcc broke support around same time. << And the hard opensourpush was made to push a crippled subset of SPARC as MIPS alternative around that time as well iirc
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