Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-04-11 | 2016-04-13 → ↓
ben_vulpes: not a barb, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: more like "we don't make much over here, and you don't ride bikes, so i don't think this cult is for you"
ben_vulpes: not to mention your explicit hatred of what makes up the bulk of my work.
ben_vulpes shrugs
ben_vulpes: what can i say, i muck stables for room and board.
ben_vulpes: chrome is now throwing up "dangerous site" pages for...torrent trackers.
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450411 <<< got this warning while visiting kat.cr earlier on gf's lappy
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 06:21 ben_vulpes: chrome is now throwing up "dangerous site" pages for...torrent trackers.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the whole "for your protection" thing can ever only go one way - to where it "protects" you from sluts and drink.
BingoBoingo: Roger Ver gets back into retail, because that worked so well for him in the past https://archive.is/AE045
shinohai: What's he going to do, open up a fireworks trailer in Alabama?
BingoBoingo: He could sell collectibles again for USD while watching US fall compared to the merchandise he sold.
shinohai: I love how he pays Buttnix to write articles, then pops in the comments section like he doesn't own the site.
mircea_popescu: incidentally : anyone on friendly terms with cs depts at unis / cs profs, plox get in touch, i have a little scheme i could use your halp with. ty!
mircea_popescu: $rated alikim
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated alikim 1 at 3669304001 << Euloran
mircea_popescu: $rate alikim 2 Euloran, flash programmer, alikim.com/photos
mircea_popescu: $v B89E246463D3F547D12D54F06755647EBD38CFA5AEDFA76667EFD88070D7C37F
deedbot: mircea_popescu updated rating of alikim from 1 to 2 << Euloran, flash programmer, alikim.com/photos
mircea_popescu: $gettrust alikim
deedbot: L1: 2, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
phf: o_O
mircea_popescu: o hey, trinque got it to pick itself up off the floor did he. nice.
phf: a weird deedbot crash, which seems to indicate sporadic packet delivery somehow
trinque: yup, I've seen a couple of those
a111: Logged on 2016-04-11 09:50 mircea_popescu: incidentally phf is there a log bundle for download somewhere ?
phf: this is only the stuff that i'm producing, in the same format as kako's original
phf: i'll shuffle things around at some point so that the folder contains pre-t-a stuff too
phf: it is live (i.e. it's a WAL), but if someone needs to read this data at frequency, talk to me to work something out
phf: which reminds, ben_vulpes you still need me to give you wotpaste urls? i could probably produce a daily structured dump or somesuch
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 13:19 mircea_popescu: incidentally : anyone on friendly terms with cs depts at unis / cs profs, plox get in touch, i have a little scheme i could use your halp with. ty!
mircea_popescu: ;;ud wal
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Walmart | The local 3-generation mom & pop store was run out of town by Walmart. ... C' mon Louann, we gotta go to Wal-Mart and get Mama her Christmas present.
mircea_popescu: by now a111 is quite the piece of machinery huh.
mircea_popescu: lol at least they're barefoot. worx.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you get pms rite ?
mircea_popescu: actually come to think of it, http://dpaste.com/2BGGCQE
phf: it gives me an opportunity to exhaustively explore technical questions, so ironically it's a more sophisticated piece of engineering than what i write for day to day
phf: it's definitely not the "fastest" "easiest" "sane" way of doing things
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in a meeting, bbs
mircea_popescu: phf word. goes back to my comment re lisp and rl that nearly started a crusade :D
trinque: kinda how deedbot went, decided I'd go balls deep in common lisp and see what happens
phf: by day to day i mean non-lisp stuff, but yeah, even taking that thing live revealed a lot of annoyances in cmucl (asciilifeform will say told you so)
mircea_popescu: and on top of which the beauty of wot-access-control, perhaps nto apparent yet, is that if you're hit with something it'll be both complex and readily documented. as opposed to the faux-real-world, where one still gets 90% brute force ssh attempts and crap.
a111: Logged on 2014-09-22 23:59 JuliaTourianski_: what projects in the BTC space do you guys like? if any...these conferences seem to be full of frat boys wanting to be men, with projects...many of which seem to be solving the same problem that doesn't exist.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: got it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interesting idea, i'd be of more use if i knew ~anything about eulora !
asciilifeform: or hm, looks more general?
mircea_popescu: "there's this open source project which is also a game and they're really into doing a partnership with a cs dept and would you wanna talk to them ?" works neh ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450461 << phf remind me again what the hell the up-side of cmucl was
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 14:46 phf: by day to day i mean non-lisp stuff, but yeah, even taking that thing live revealed a lot of annoyances in cmucl (asciilifeform will say told you so)
asciilifeform: it always struck me as a kind of 'bsd 4' - yes, 'hackable', yes, 'small', but the ~wrong kind of small~, the kind that will balloon into the same megalith as sbcl if you were to add all of the missing but necessary pieces.
phf: what are these "missing but necessary pieces"?
asciilifeform: motherfucking native threads, for one
asciilifeform: i consider a general-purpose language without these, WORTHLESS
phf: well, that's the only one that you keep mentioning, and i heard you about it :)
asciilifeform: there is also the support for various non-x86 boxen
asciilifeform: and, much as folks like to spit on it - unicode.
phf: which cmucl has
asciilifeform: does it?
mircea_popescu: wait, cmucl has no unicode ?
asciilifeform: didn't, last i saw
phf: i think since 2009 or so
mircea_popescu: im unconvinced multibox support is a good idea. if i am going to run on non-x86, i sure as fuck don't wantall the x86 stuff in there.
mircea_popescu: and vice-versa.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what x86 stuff
phf: sbcl has arm support over cmucl
asciilifeform: i do not rightfully apprehend mircea_popescu's observation here
phf: but otherwise..
mircea_popescu: mk let's rephrase. if i used a non-x86 box i'd want the thing to be native for that box not an addon to x86.
asciilifeform: i still don't get it
mircea_popescu: this is why i'm even using arm or w/e in the first place.
asciilifeform: what means 'native to' here
phf: mircea_popescu: von neumann machines are a lot more similar than dissimilar. difference between x86 and arm is a very thin layer
mircea_popescu: suppose the language's compiled. the compiler has no reason to know about non-native microcode.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: suppose you want to cross-compile ?
mircea_popescu: suppose i don't.
asciilifeform: and sure, nobody makes you keep the thing around
asciilifeform: you can always run a tree shaker and throw out the src you never intend to use.
asciilifeform: save a few kb of disk !111111
mircea_popescu: security more a concern than disk really.
phf: asciilifeform: i don't think lisps support cross-compilation in general?
asciilifeform: phf: it'd have to be something like sbcl's 'save-lisp-and-die'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the interest of fits-in-head - sure
phf: which is very very narrowly portable
asciilifeform: phf: aha, commonlisp is unfriendly to the notion of an 'exe' in general
asciilifeform: (which imho is the Right Thing)
mircea_popescu: so then what multibox support.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: multibox means that the thing ~can~ be ported to new cpu with minimal sweat
mircea_popescu: and you just admitted you don't want this.
asciilifeform: rather than some mythical 'one exe for all boxes' winblowz claptrap
mircea_popescu: "can be ported to new cpu with minimal sweat" is not distinct from "windows claptrap one exe"
asciilifeform: all i want is for the jit compiler's back-end to be sanely written and not married to x86, and for there to not be weird endian dependencies baked in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see above.
asciilifeform: this is ALL it means.
mircea_popescu: ah ok, i didn't get what you were saying.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu was probably imagining something like the old crapple 'fat executables' that have 3 sections for 3 cpus
mircea_popescu: pretty sure cmucl's not married to endian-ness. nfi about sanely written tho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, it's been known to happen!
asciilifeform: cmucl won't invoke pthread and as such is not a finished product in my view.
mircea_popescu: yes yews, but to the other two objections you gave.
asciilifeform: (if a lang runs on unix box and can't pthread it is a toy)
phf: that's just empty rhetoric
phf: it runs logs alright ;)
mircea_popescu: lol check out phf with his newly found "fu because battlefield" rhetoric :D
mircea_popescu: rare to see in lispen battle, a deployment of THAT tank division.
asciilifeform: pretty quiet battlefield.
asciilifeform: wait till there is GB/s log demand.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, in geek world the one-girlfriend guy is king.
phf: asciilifeform: threads are the worst possible solution to gb/s log demand
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly. what ?
asciilifeform: lack of threads is a sure boat anchor when you get a hang somewhere.
mircea_popescu: i thought lisp exiosts so you don't "Get a hang somewhere"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, but then some bozo added tcp to it
mircea_popescu: so he rewrites the tcp state machine in c, what :D
phf: tcp had non-blocking mode for a very long time
mircea_popescu: but is it with utf ?
phf: against, GB/s is consistently solved with non-blocking non-threads
mircea_popescu: ahh this has been a pleasant convo
phf: there are some arguments now (and some successful projects) that solve gb/s with threads, but this whole idea that threads are a solution to gb/s ~in the compotent circles~ is a novel thing. schedulers are getting better, some patterns emerging, tooling is better etc. people coming out with "perhaps doing it with async is not best option anymore". but for years gb/s was achieved with async, reactor pattern, fork/exec
phf: and yes it has unicode :D
phf: but none is the answer to why cmucl, and i don't think there's one. mostly why not? it's a question of discipline for me, can i move slow and not freak out against deficiencies. i think that "looking for silver bullet" is just a waste of time, and there's no way that i can possibly explore entire cmucl solution space, until a whole new set of base capabilities is required
phf: can always switch to sbcl overnight, harder to switch back, since sbcl like any high profile project attracts, accumulates and integrates cockroaches.
mircea_popescu: compotent ?
mircea_popescu: ah you mean component dontcha
phf: competent
asciilifeform: phf: i can actually get behind 'thing needs its ~own~ scheduler, ip stack, nic driver...'
mircea_popescu: anyway, the longstanding rule has been that one can use whathever the fuck one wishes, and reap the benefits of maintenance down the road on their own ass.
asciilifeform: how else.
mircea_popescu: in other news, i planted something that was supposed to be "curry", which i had nfi is even a plant wtf, isn't that a spice mix ?
mircea_popescu: then went and fondled the foot tall guys and omfg my kbd hand and everything smells like curry and im salivating
phf: indian perfume
punkman: curry leaves are common in europe aren't they
mircea_popescu: yeah it's a sort of daisy apparently.
punkman: it's a full on tree iirc
mircea_popescu: no, that's the sweet neem thing.
mircea_popescu: this is just a bushy plant, helichrysum italicum
punkman: oic, guess there's a lot of different ones called curry leaves
asciilifeform: 'Then they came to Namecheap where I have a couple of VPS servers, this account also had 2factor SMS authentication required for login. However the hacker opened up a live chat with Namecheap and requested a password reset for the SolusVM VPS panel, at which point, in a massive breach of their security protocols, they sent a plain text email to the comprised address containing both the VPS panel use
asciilifeform: rname (previously unknown to the attacker) and a new password. ' << l0l!!
mircea_popescu: hey, customers have come to expect.
punkman: I don't really like the sweet neem thing, definitely don't use it in currys
mircea_popescu: o, recall the guy that made a passport pic of chetty ?
mircea_popescu: where the fuck was that
asciilifeform: aha, it
mircea_popescu: punkman i'm not advanced enough to mix my own ; generally just get premixed whatever greater minds think fit and proper.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf didja ever make a bookmarkable log url thing ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450407 << ben_vulpes this is iirc why the thread was so lulzy
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 05:55 ben_vulpes: more like "we don't make much over here, and you don't ride bikes, so i don't think this cult is for you"
phf: you mean the recent log bookmarkable url thing?
asciilifeform: it reminds me of a dream i had once, where i was in charge of some kindergarten thing, and a ragged bum knocks on the door, outside - storms, rains, - 'quick, quick, i need to fry in your electric chair!' he gasps. i reply 'sorry, we only have a child-sized one here!' but he persists, squeezes himself in
phf: asciilifeform's dreams are almost kafka stories
phf: ;;later tell asciilifeform which bookmarkable log url thing?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: phf: the one where the logs url should behave sanely, i.e. not redirect to anything but to ~always~ point to the head of the log
asciilifeform: so it can be refreshed on pnohe and similar
phf: i haven't but i'll add it at some point soon. didn't have a bandwidth to hack on anything non-trivial
asciilifeform: happy cosmonautics day, folkz
shinohai sheds a tear for Yuri.
phf: oh yeah need to call grandma
ben_vulpes: grandma?!
ben_vulpes: phf: just gets cooler and cooler
shinohai: But MAH MOON LANDING!!!
asciilifeform: in unrelated nyooz,
asciilifeform: ^ not far from where i live
asciilifeform: ^ house stood empty for a few months, and copper thieves stole the heat exchanger coil
ben_vulpes: > house stood empty for a few months
ben_vulpes: weird
ben_vulpes: tisn't how things work in my part of the world.
ben_vulpes: turnover ~2weeks, unless there's a full renovation in swing.
ben_vulpes: or the place is a condemned dump.
ben_vulpes: or it's 2010 and someone walked on a mortgage.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's been 'for sale' for at least half a year actually.
asciilifeform: and, aside from the item in the picture, is not in any seriously bad shape afaik.
ben_vulpes: even /less/ common.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: we have houses here that stood empty for years.
ben_vulpes: and not because people price their houses sanely, no. but because apparently all of california is moving here and will buy at any cost.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: insane
asciilifeform: the city maintains the outside superficially so that it is not obvious immediately which they are.
ben_vulpes: the...city!?
ben_vulpes: and not the property owners?!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: often there is not a known owner
ben_vulpes: then who is selling it
asciilifeform: ~this one~ has owner
asciilifeform: presumably.
asciilifeform: the empty for years ones - often, not
ben_vulpes: there've been a few squats around town, but with the recent explosion in dirt-demand, they're all getting shuttered and replaced with apartments.
ben_vulpes: portland is about as squatter unfriendly as i've ever seen a city.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 424.53, vol: 6113.25250388 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 420.0, vol: 7357.76405 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 425.99, vol: 14996.78820558 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 425.0, vol: 3.08677667 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 426.266568, vol: 31154.96080000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 426.61, vol: 1100.17508599 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 429.203115, vol: 43.653074 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: btc-usd moar stable than my mains voltage...
mircea_popescu: cosmonautics day lmao. you people...
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 425.273152803
mircea_popescu: lol won space race. ehehehe
mircea_popescu: where did you find the redbeard ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from, iirc, some ru www. eons ago.
shinohai: So airbnb acquired Changetip. I guess now when people lose 67 cents sleeping on your sofa you can convert it to satoshi right there.
mircea_popescu: dude that copper thieve shit... used ac unit is 200 bucks, contains 8 bucks worth of scavengeable metal.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 8 bux for phreeeee
asciilifeform: and it isn't as if anyone catches these folks, or the buyers, and pours molten copper down their necks
asciilifeform: (or hangs'em high from the hv masts which they - likewise - plunder)
asciilifeform: who ever heard of a vermin thinking 'i'ma only make 8 bux but do 10,000 worth of damage, i'd better not' ?
mircea_popescu: see, if ~I~ were running the socialist state, there'd be a tax penalty and a 6 mo administrative (ie, no judge involved) jail sentence for keeping property empty a full quarter.
mircea_popescu: tax penalty = you get no offsets this year. or somesuch. you get bonus next tax bracket. something.
mircea_popescu: shinohai lmao win.
asciilifeform: against whom ? usg's own bank ?
mircea_popescu: great angle for qntra.
asciilifeform: (in virtually all cases, the actual title holder...)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bank clerk in charge of the particular real estate, sure.
mircea_popescu: my socialism sees through corporate pretense. like the damned thing does by default, except in the crazy us implementation.
asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that the empty, decaying, plundered properties are ~part of the program~
asciilifeform: it is how they keep the bezzlatronic prices up.
mircea_popescu: yeah, and part and parcel of the explanation as to WHY us "won the space race"
asciilifeform: and a natural outgrowth of 'NO cheap houses, EVER'
mircea_popescu: and every other race, war, confrontation and anything else.
mircea_popescu: fucking addicted to bad resource allocation.
ben_vulpes: also iirc copping to fradulent statements in securitization documents
shinohai: ^ I almost Qntra'd that today ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: ^ guess how many pennies of this will go to the folks ~actually~ shafted (who? the ones who did NOT get phreeeeeee house from obummer's scam)
ben_vulpes: shinohai: what'd the qntra angle be?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: that's not how things work!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes aha.
shinohai: I didn't figure out an angle for it, therefore left it to simmer on back burner.
ben_vulpes: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ben_vulpes cackles madly back into the aws java sdk
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes kinda why the whole "usg takes as much from 'coffers' of usg corps as it needs" thing in macroeconomy discussion few days ago.
mircea_popescu: it\s a joke, this "enforcing" mechanism. consists of nothing more than me presenting a signed check to a company i own
mircea_popescu: whatever the fuck i write on it, it's still gonna pay.
asciilifeform: the other observation is that the house-builders and title-holding banks do not need anyone to actually live in the property to make their printolade.
mircea_popescu: shinohai wasn't it 3 months ago ?
asciilifeform: they are perfectly ok with the thing being a permanent 'trading sardine' even as thieves rip out the copper pipes.
mircea_popescu: like everything else in that country. this stuff is painfully visible, and so ridiculous on some level.
mircea_popescu: but the sad fact is that most us companies' stock in trade is "intellectual property"
mircea_popescu: mostly, lists of various things nobody cares about.
asciilifeform: gogol's 'dead souls'.
mircea_popescu: it's no coincidence that all the us "culture" can produce is "10 ways to bla bla".
mircea_popescu: it's really all it's about.
asciilifeform: 10 wayz to write 10 waiz list !1111
phf: journalists hate it!
asciilifeform: learn the trick trick learnerz haet!1111
mircea_popescu: 10 sick ways to better health.
mircea_popescu: ;;google carlin is the greatest and "how to make money renting out the space inside your nose"
gribble: George Carlin Talks About "Stuff" - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac>; Humor - Quotes - BG Info: <http://www.bg-info.com/humor_-_quotes.html>; dumb questions - things that make you go hmmm - Corsinet: <http://www.corsinet.com/braincandy/stupid.html>
shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/I6EUXwo.jpg <<< looking for pron, find Stalin on the subway instead.
mircea_popescu: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=854&cpage=1#comment-2720 << if you recall, someone did. a humorless german dude, and as a result italy gets to fraudulently claim it's a "nation" and "part of europe", rather than the arab brothel sicily was leading it towards throughout the middle ages (which, there, last until 1960 and after)
mircea_popescu: possibly the worst political cock-up of all time, trying to empirebuild with italians.
mircea_popescu: and then the dumbass germans went and TRIED IT AGAIN!
mircea_popescu: (and since we're discussing german firsts - the fucking reason steak's so good today is that well... ww1 germanz needed leather, imported as much as argentina could produce. so it begun.)
phf: asciilifeform: http://www.hack.org/mc/mgr/ a very unixy x11 alternative, the windowing protocol is essentially escape codes back and forth
asciilifeform: 'If you want to compare MGR to the X Window System, you might consider the MGR server as something like a combination of an X server + window manager + xterm, but with xterm's Tektronix 4014 graphics terminal emulation and its DEC VT100 emulation in the same window.' << looks to me like it is of archaeological interest solely
asciilifeform: 1.1MB TGZ of src !11 this does not appear to be in any serious way 'lighter' or more fits-in-head-sy than x11.
asciilifeform: and it appears that i could not push arbitrary moving pictures through it, or use 'ratpoison'
asciilifeform: ergo useless.
asciilifeform: if it were 50kB of c, it might've been intriguing.
asciilifeform: here's an observation,
asciilifeform: symbolics co. sold quite a few boxes ~the only~ UI to which was x11 over the lan.
asciilifeform: there was literally ~nothing~ that beat this, then.
asciilifeform: and there is STILL not.
asciilifeform: note, these were lispms, and they implemented x protocol.
asciilifeform: just for the ui.
asciilifeform: this was so that buyer could use, e.g., a 'sun', as a console
asciilifeform: instead of buying a symbolics console for the cost of a 'toyota'
asciilifeform: but somehow the company's reputation as 'evil vendor of closed $maxint machinery' did not thereby perish.
asciilifeform: (the fact that virtually ALL of their products shipped WITH SOURCE, also somehow did not affect it)
mircea_popescu: odd how reputation works [in wotless worlds]
asciilifeform: who can fully apprehend that 30 MOTHERFUCKING YEARS was not enough to make ANY notable improvement on xwindows?!!!!111
asciilifeform: (as discussed in an old mircea_popescu thread, there ~is~ room for improvement.)
asciilifeform: but it ~blows my mind~ that, in world where there is an x11, idiot derps for DECADES successfully peddled 'remote desktop' atrocities
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I didn't figure out an angle for it, therefore left it to simmer on back burner. << maybe start writing, see if an angle emerges?
phf: asciilifeform: of course it is of archaeological interest, jeez have to make disclaimers on links, else get wall of logs ;)
ben_vulpes: i liked that particular WAL
mircea_popescu: and in unrelated news, h heine is an utter shithead.
phf: speaking of walls and x11, i walked into a comment section of some "game ported to linux" post. guy opted for native xlib/opengl, so he got a wall full of "x11 is deprecated, everyone's moving to wayland, use sdl2". ironically in the post itself he says " when searching for answers to questions that weren’t made quite clear in the documentation, often people that had the same questions I did received answers like ‘Use SDL’, or ‘Use GTK
phf: or Qt’. That’s amazingly frustrating and just adds noise to the internet." http://www.shiningrocksoftware.com/2016-04-09-thoughts-on-linux/
mircea_popescu: deprecated my foot.
mircea_popescu: eulora uses opengl, and that's ~100% of all linux gaming.
phf: well, they deprecated gnupg, they can deprecate x11. people on linux!
mircea_popescu: this derpage, i swear.
mircea_popescu: let me guess, it was "community consensus" on reddit, on the basis of their locally mutated gavin and some "experts" they consulted.
mircea_popescu: srsly tho, do a search for linux gaming one day, you'll fall over.
mircea_popescu: it's like 1989 never came.
shinohai: BingoBoingo: been trying to take your advice and do just that, write crap for no good reason
shinohai: though no blog yet.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: It's the only way to learn. I discovered that when I took mircea_popescu's advice and started writing crap.
phf: mircea_popescu: nethack
phf: oh wait, right 1989
shinohai: Only reasonable way I know to acquire shares/Bitcoins to hoard. Unless go back to reddit and suck ass for changetip.
mircea_popescu: phf right ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai he has a point ; there's no other way than practice.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You had that point before I did.
shinohai: anywho am grateful for the opportunity to contribute somewhat.
BingoBoingo: Keep coming back. It works when you work it.
shinohai: SO it appears the airbnb/changetip deal doesn't involve the changetip codebase.
shinohai: Solid use of that 3.5 million in funding for sure, no one wants the shit.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450713 << gtk & sdl ride happily on top of x...
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 22:36 phf: speaking of walls and x11, i walked into a comment section of some "game ported to linux" post. guy opted for native xlib/opengl, so he got a wall full of "x11 is deprecated, everyone's moving to wayland, use sdl2". ironically in the post itself he says " when searching for answers to questions that weren’t made quite clear in the documentation, often people that had the same questions I did received answers like ‘Use SDL’, or ‘Use GTK
phf: freedesktop strategy is to create an abstraction layer on top of base tools that makes things "simpler", and then transparently switch the base. in this case value of gtk & sdl to wreckers is that they both operate on wayland already. sdl seems somewhat sane but i wouldn't be surprised if gnome deprecates their X support at some point
asciilifeform: and iirc 'wayland' is one of those infuriating idiocies where 'want remote proggy? here's a DESKTOP, in a 1024x768 box'
mircea_popescu: phf very much so aha.
mircea_popescu: not a bad strategy either, it got ustards off cars.
mircea_popescu: "nobody could understand what's inside the engine"
deedbot-: [Qntra] FBI Investigates Soup Can Heist - http://qntra.net/2016/04/fbi-investigates-soup-can-heist/
BingoBoingo: ^ From the "of course" file
phf: fwiw gtk has been compromising x for year, that's where "remote x is useless" misconception comes from. you can run x emacs on a dialup even (i was doing it on dsl in the early 2000s), but of course running any kind of gtk app fails miserably, because library pushes gratuitous (and unoptimizable by simple RLE) gradients across wire just to render a button.
asciilifeform: the microshitifucation of linux will not be truly complete until users have to grunt with 'remote desktop' idiocy
asciilifeform: phf: even gtk apps work fine on gigabit lan
asciilifeform: i routinely use, e.g., ida pro under 'wine' over x11 over tcp.
ben_vulpes: the microshitification of linux will not be complete until ms ships a windows that also does all of the linux syscalls
mats: in progress
mats: i'm curious what is going to happen with the syscalls that don't map cleanly
ben_vulpes: yes in progress that's why i bring it up
phf: mats: i think they are going the linux-in-userspace route
phf: so they have a linux kernel manage the processes, and then they write keyboard/"console"/mouse drivers for it
phf: they could probably make it as intrusive as they want
mats: i don't think so
mats: they're bringing back the 'personalities' feature
asciilifeform: or they could buy & enslave 'cygwin', which was this already.
shinohai: BingoBoingo: perhaps can use: http://ix.io/wpc
mats: what i remember from the BUILD keynote about this is there's an ELF loader and translate syscalls
BingoBoingo: shinohai: ty
phf: asciilifeform: i don't think cygwin translates syscalls, it was more of half-baked mingw
phf: mats: ah, so that makes sense
mats: i don't understand what kind of strategic advantage they see in this
mats: TIL you can hook syscall returns from usermode
deedbot-: [Qntra] ChangeTip The Company Bought, ChangeTip The Product Still For Sale. - http://qntra.net/2016/04/changetip-the-company-bought-changetip-the-product-still-for-sale/
ben_vulpes: man that's derpy even for airbnb
ben_vulpes: which by the way i use regularly to great effect
asciilifeform: phf: i beg to differ- i had not only x11 built under cygwin long ago (at usg gig!) but ratpoison, firefox, 1,001 unmodified linux proggies
phf: asciilifeform: unmodified linux ~binaries~?
mats: standard vc money laundering behavior, no?
mircea_popescu: kik dualboot from redmond itself!
mircea_popescu: mats> what i remember from the BUILD keynote about this is there's an ELF loader and translate syscalls << then alf wants to know what i mean about http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450492
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 15:14 asciilifeform: i do not rightfully apprehend mircea_popescu's observation here
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the fact you use them shows just how badly oyu have it. there's also people who use tampons / shit bags to great effect. we call these people women / the pope, and dun wanna be them.
mod6: lol @ literotica silent fixing.
mircea_popescu: hey mod6 can you be persuaded to fire up eulora and do a craft for me ?
asciilifeform: <phf> asciilifeform: unmodified linux ~binaries~? << no, built locally. but unmodified SOURCES
mircea_popescu: i need moar datapoints.
mod6: yeah. sure.
mircea_popescu: meet me in town ima give you the gear needed
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> which by the way i use regularly to great effect << aha, recall, i even used 'uber'
phf: asciilifeform: well, precisely. they are talking about running unmodified binaries and doing jit syscall translation. not something cygwin supports
asciilifeform: phf: ah
asciilifeform: yeah this'd be something else
phf: this is evil, evil incarnate, i tell ya
mats: if it weren't for uber i'd own a vehicle that sits unpowered 95% of the time
asciilifeform: but what i was pointing out was that building unmodified (sourcewise) linux proggies to run on shitblowz was baked long, long ago
mircea_popescu: mats don't ever get married ; it's like buying a cunt that sits unlubricated 99% of the time!
asciilifeform: mats: do you fire the kalash every day ? how about the electron microscope ?
mats: i don't look forward to the prospect of marriage
asciilifeform: how about the frag ?
mats: but... filial piety and all that.
asciilifeform: do you pull the pin every day??
mats: i thought you hate driving?
asciilifeform: i very much do.
shinohai takes tacis everywhere.
shinohai: *taxis
mats: uber's classic service (that is, the 'black car' bidness it was before servicing plebs with 'uberx', 'uberpool', etc) is still good
asciilifeform: mats: but i can't really separate the reason for hating it from my hatred of working.
mats: the simple matter is that car ownership is, to me, a -ev prospect
asciilifeform: if i only ever drove to places where i actually ~wanted~ to be, i might not hate it.
mircea_popescu: this because 99% of people who currently own cars shouldn't own as much as a pocket knife.
asciilifeform: perhaps this is when to point out that they do not in fact ~own~ the things
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu knew this.
mircea_popescu: hey he was discussing ownersheep!
asciilifeform: (the typical modern auto is built to fall apart within 1% or somesuch of the day the credit is paid off)
asciilifeform goes ~100km on a typical day
mod6: mircea_popescu: alright, building
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450744 << this fucking gradient business omfg...
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 23:07 phf: fwiw gtk has been compromising x for year, that's where "remote x is useless" misconception comes from. you can run x emacs on a dialup even (i was doing it on dsl in the early 2000s), but of course running any kind of gtk app fails miserably, because library pushes gratuitous (and unoptimizable by simple RLE) gradients across wire just to render a button.
mircea_popescu: it's like every [unemployable shithead] got all excited about "omaigerd - i know how i'll justify not doing any it work - GRADIENTS !! AWESOME!!!" in like 2002
mircea_popescu: i've been waiting for the idiocy to blow over ever since and it just fucking won't
mircea_popescu: it's now part and parcel of what the idiots have come to expect or some stupid shit.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile i want gradients like i want the "clever" ustard namespace. o woe what the fuck will i do without "laundromat" and "chuck e cheese" !!1
mircea_popescu: such glorious victories of ~world~ culture!
phf: "new and improved gui framework" "what can it do?" "prettier, modern gradients, better than last year's tired gradients"
mircea_popescu: it'd be funny if it weren't literally exact.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: thinks i don't know how poorly this place is set up, haw
ben_vulpes: very much yes i would rather stay with some kindly grandmother i've never met than the roach motel up the street.
mod6: i always thought the airbnb thing was so weird.
mod6: i couldn't do it
asciilifeform long wondered why there is not the next logical step for uber & airbnb - 'restaurant' where you show up to somebody's house and he cooks for you
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: isn't this what mistress is traditionally ?
asciilifeform: and of course there is the inevitable whoring app, but that'd have to use coin and is still waiting for wot folk to do it
mircea_popescu: maybe it should be called Ho-Tel
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no i meant anonymous you-can-be-anybody-so-long-as-you-got-dough sort of thing
mod6: "come over, my wife will cook you dinner, fuck you, and bathe you. $42.95"
asciilifeform: y'know, like an illegal taxi
phf: yes actually! it was a thing for a bit on craigslist and such. you could invite over a "chef", they cook for free, and eat with you, but you buy the groceries
mircea_popescu: mod6 ftr that was about 50% of italian GDP throughout the past 1500 or so years.
mod6 packs his bags for florance
mircea_popescu: you mean deflorence.
mod6: haha, yea, there
asciilifeform: iirc serviceable chix cost 4figs in most of usaschwitz
asciilifeform: so no fiddybux deal.
asciilifeform: unless you want to use a blindfold
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform blindfold included.
asciilifeform: like british sailors, eating their maggoty biscuits
mircea_popescu: enough with this kulak high falootin.
mircea_popescu: no derp left behiney!
mod6: 4figs? depends on how many teef she has
mircea_popescu: mod6 for lack of whorexperience he puts the gals on this pedestal.
asciilifeform: as many teeth, that many benjies, price!
mod6: yeah, i know a walmart where you can $12 bjs behind the store
mircea_popescu: the last time a woman made 1k+ to fuck some guy, he was some engineer with a love/hate relationship with usg.
mod6: bang you for $20 + a taco
mircea_popescu: the usd, backed by half-n-half.
asciilifeform: yeah but then you bang something that bangs for 20+taco
mircea_popescu: you got it backwards.
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is what fat ugly dumb cunts use to exploit your kind, alfie.
mod6: hey, think of it this way, you can shag every work day for half a days labor + a taco
mircea_popescu: it doesn't MEAN anything.
asciilifeform: mod6: you can also eat 'chocolate' from the pharmacy, aha
mircea_popescu: "something that bangs for 20+taco" in your statement does NOT evaluate to anything.
asciilifeform: and drink some 'beer'
asciilifeform: (that is mostly pisswater)
mircea_popescu: there is no such "something".
asciilifeform: well just as there is no 'american beer', there are only concrete pisswaters
asciilifeform: but all meaningfully related.
mircea_popescu: could be queen of the whores, or rando feminist. the future does NOT reach into the past to rearrange it somehow magically.
mircea_popescu: it's an untouchable, absolute barrier.
asciilifeform: naturalist cannot afford to treat every blade of grass as a particular!
asciilifeform: gotta form hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: besides the point. this strawman won't work any better than all the previous ones.
mircea_popescu: the objection t oyour broken mental process isn't that you generalize unwarrantedly.
asciilifeform: this sophism won't work better than all the previous ones either, l0l
asciilifeform straps on gas mask
mircea_popescu: it's that you attempt to re-value the item in quiestion [woman] by future considerations [the sort that will have done X[
mircea_popescu: this is not how it works.
mircea_popescu: whatever she sucks&fucks for, she's exactgly the same object.
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu proposes that i cannot infer anything interesting from the fact that chick fucks for 20bux ?
mircea_popescu: exactly.
asciilifeform: anything useful at all?
mircea_popescu: and in general, you can never use this mechanism, ever.
mircea_popescu: you use it plenty, and the results are always crapolade.
mod6: i guess i can see how a high-class georgetown hooker might charge like 1k per night or someshit, but you can just drive down to baltimore and get laid 3x for 60, and keep the change for the crack.
asciilifeform: let's try different profession. can mircea_popescu infer anything from the fact that mr joe programmer writes entire project for 200 bux ?
asciilifeform: anything useful at all?
mircea_popescu: mod6 or you can offer her 150 and unless she smells sucker she'll go for it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're yet to make 200 bux for tmsr work.
mod6: sure, put in a bid. see if some takers. always a solid bet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i said 200, specifically not 0
asciilifeform: plenty of folks allah snackbar into small pieces for 0.
mircea_popescu: fine, i'll buy you a steak.
asciilifeform: but nobody - for 200.
mod6: actually, i'd bet there are folks, even here, that would do small spec'd out work for .50000000
mircea_popescu: this is such trite nominalism. if they'll do it for 0, 200 bux really is not here or there.
asciilifeform: i am somewhat floored that mircea_popescu appears to think whoring to be exempt from ordinary market mechanisms!
asciilifeform: 2000 car is quite different from 200,000
mircea_popescu: that is yet another strawman.
asciilifeform: but cheap whore is precisely same as expensive?!
asciilifeform: how strawman ?
mircea_popescu: i do not think whoring is extempt from market mechanisms. i KNOW that what you misrepresent as "market mechanisms" is pure usg ideology and has not ever SEEN a market.
mircea_popescu: ie, this "item is bad because it was cheap" nonsense is ONLY THERE to prop up the "item is good because was expensive" idiocy.
mircea_popescu: neither of these are market related. they're pure ustardia.
asciilifeform: is mircea_popescu telling me that 'expensive whore' is 'veblen good' ? (if he is, i will believe him, i know ~as much re whoring as about deep ocean currents)
mircea_popescu: she's not made of fucking soap!
asciilifeform: i did not say 'sucks because high mileage'
mircea_popescu: doesn't wear down with use.
asciilifeform: but because why doesn't the high-quality one charge moar
mircea_popescu: yes but wtf is she going to charge 1k for ?
mircea_popescu: think for a moment. she does 4 an hour.
mircea_popescu: whose work is in SUCH high demand specifically that they HAVE TO charge 4k an hour to control the herds ?
asciilifeform: for there being a queue 25km long, vs the fiddybux whore's 1km ?
asciilifeform: thin the queue, make moar?
mircea_popescu: all i ever seen were whores queuing
mircea_popescu: seeing how erection still only item in short supply in sex market
mircea_popescu: where did you see dudes queing to cunt ?
asciilifeform: this is still a mega-puzzler
phf: i personally know girls that charge the entire range from about 200 to 1500, they list on high end escort services, because they can pull it off, but they also list on various adultfinder variations, because that's a quick buck. i don't know what's the lowest they went for, i should ask, but this definitely doesn't work like "market forces"
mircea_popescu: except on specially arranged sets catering to this particular fantasy, there's one guy in a car buying and a buncha chicks queuing.
asciilifeform: erection is literally cheapest thing in known earth.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the soviets thought "satellite launch cheapest- costs nothing"
mircea_popescu: yeah, while empire lasts.
mircea_popescu: erection is hard and difficult and lasts but a trifle.
mircea_popescu: cunt's wet for 40 years straight.
mod6: death is free
mircea_popescu: phf i know from experience pretty much EVERY escort, even those who charge 1-2-5k to corporate accounts, actually work for 1-200 ish.
asciilifeform: the 'rare erection' thing is only even possible to picture if you discount the billion frustrated teenagers walking around hard 24/7
mircea_popescu: similarly, plumber will charge you 4500 if you're paying, why not.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they walk around hard 24/7 until they meet a girl, after which they discover teenaged female needs 5-6 of them.
phf: mircea_popescu: exactly
mircea_popescu: in sane countries happens around 10th grade, but ustardia is its own world.
asciilifeform: i dun get this, a healthy bloke reloads in 10, 20 (if he shoveled dirt all day) min.
mircea_popescu: and no, shoveled dirt all day bloke does fine, good blood. office twerp, not so fine.
mircea_popescu: but anyway. once. and then ? she's still there.
phf: there's no shortage of stamina in the head
mod6: anyway, my point was, if you wanna fuck, no need to drop a stack.
asciilifeform: mod6: if you're young/pretty you can fuck for phreeee, sure
mircea_popescu: for women you mean ?
asciilifeform: anybody
mod6: well, there's always "phreeee". but... just sayin, you don't need to spend $1k. $100 is a long way from $1000
mircea_popescu: not really. young boys have a terrible time. nigh on impossible for old women.
mircea_popescu: maybe if they're very careful.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile if you keep in decent shape, you're good till you finally lose interest
mircea_popescu: w/e that it.
phf: wasn't lafond talking how the older he gets the more attention he gets
asciilifeform: the man was a boxer!
mircea_popescu: im not so sure how far i trust his self-evals, but anyway
asciilifeform: certainly didn't rot in no office.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "ex boxer" just evals to "fat".
asciilifeform has deeply nfi, will believe mircea_popescu.
mircea_popescu: it's not a good athlete.
mircea_popescu: ex-runner, you got something. ex swimmer.
mircea_popescu: olympics anything generally.
mircea_popescu: but not us football / boxing / hockey etc.
phf: that's like those office "college quarterbacker" guys, almost always in the worst shape, particularly since delusional about past achievements
phf: can be challenged to feats of athleticism when drunk with predictably sad results
mod6: mircea_popescu: ok i made you a thing
mod6: actually 54 of 'em @ 181q
mircea_popescu: trade me mod6
jurov: z/znc clearallchannelbuffers
jurov: doh
mod6: ah sorry, got distracted.
mircea_popescu: btw trinque what was the thing with btcalpha interconnect ? got a rss or something for mike_c ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform "ex boxer" just evals to "fat". << His pictures seem to acurately represent his self declared 50 or so pounds over fighting weight.
mircea_popescu: a ? never seen any pix
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He has some author photos on Amazon and places he guest writes.
trinque: $gettrust mike_c
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 5 by 2 connections.
trinque: mike_c: you want a postgresql connection?
trinque: mike_c: then you can perform whatever queries are useful to you when you sync data
mircea_popescu: wow is that actually practical ?
trinque: sure, he's in my WoT, happy to grant him access to some tables
mircea_popescu: hm. i wonder why this isn't more often done then ?
mircea_popescu: i mean, make him a user, give it select priviledges, done.
trinque: exactly
mircea_popescu: basically once bdb is killed in bitcoin we can just have a standared tmsr db and just do this ?
trinque: I had an old boss who thought the web ought to be composed of interlinked databases rather than "websites", certainly not the only man to say this
trinque: but makes a hell of a lot of sense
mircea_popescu: at least temporarily, for as long as the usual fucktards don't "improve" sql to be more... "responsive"
mircea_popescu: "to the users' perceived needs".
mircea_popescu: i'd sure as fuck trade in html soup in exchange for sql.
trinque: may its hellish syntax hold the line
trinque: yep
mircea_popescu: and this is even before any flash blabla.
mircea_popescu: i still suspect there's a good reason this doesn't work tho.
trinque: there are myriad ddos reasons one might not want any user to be able to interrogate the db
trinque: wot seems to solve that, and is exactly the reason I'm willing to open the db to mike_c
trinque: but then, you could even split it such that certain users may only use certain views, others may create their own queries
asciilifeform: this smacks of the proverbial 'for 20k, i drill my OWN holez!'
trinque: I've yet to be convinced that the database isn't a thing.
trinque: further, any system that manages a large pile of persistent data will end up reinventing ACID, relational integrity, so on, in the same manner that any object system may eventually find it is some degree of shitty subset of CLOS
trinque: there are obvious problems that fall out of many programs diddling the same data concurrently, or users of different levels of access interacting with the same data model, or what happens when I didn't write all the damn data successfully, or... or...
mod6: mike_c: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758070 << these are the real deals 'eh?
a111: Logged on 2014-07-16 17:44 mike_c: need zocchi dice
trinque: mike_c: anyhow, until asciilifeform writes me a CLOS persistence layer with ACID, a declarative permissions model, and networking, gpg me the IP you'd be coming from and I'll open that in the firewall then shoot you a psql user/pass
trinque: and ftr, the dream described above *would be a motherfucking database*
trinque: lol
a111: Logged on 2016-04-13 03:54 trinque: mike_c: anyhow, until asciilifeform writes me a CLOS persistence layer with ACID, a declarative permissions model, and networking, gpg me the IP you'd be coming from and I'll open that in the firewall then shoot you a psql user/pass
trinque: and what the fuck is rss
trinque: I am entirely willing to do a shitty thing that doesn't kill me while I am waiting for something else.
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