Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-05-03 | 2015-05-05 → ↓
asciilifeform did not drill, does not know
asciilifeform: but it would be fitting if ru were to pay for hallucinated oil with hallucinated airplanes.
asciilifeform: (which, afaik, is what happened)
mircea_popescu: !up bmarch
bmarch: hello, how is everyone?
mircea_popescu: not bad.
mircea_popescu: for the record the british vulcan is one of the shittiest bombers in history.
mircea_popescu: basically a half load quarter range b52
asciilifeform: how much bomber needed against poor orcs.
mircea_popescu: if you're gonna make it....
assbot: Estafa con promesa de trabajo en Vaca Muerta - Catriel 25 Noticias 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1EKjX1Z )
mircea_popescu: when's the last time the bulk of the news about a major find consists of various scams ?
asciilifeform learned today that ar once knew how to make airplanes
mircea_popescu: before shitheadism/peronism/populism, argentina was a major world power.
asciilifeform: the jets were designed, it seems, by germans (naturally) under peron
asciilifeform: but other than this - sure
asciilifeform: ' President Perón envisioned that a benefit of setting up an aviation factory in Argentina would be to introduce production standards comparable to world-class manufacturing facilities. However, Tank realized that production tools and jigs were not feasible at this stage and relied instead on essentially hand-built examples.' (pediwikian l0l)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.00027065 = 10.9072 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: why does this feel familiar.
pete_dushenski: http://trilema.com/2015/that-scary-thing/#comment-114039 << my take on the parsimony vs. decentralisation question
assbot: That scary thing on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zGU7Ni )
pete_dushenski: i'm quite intrigued by the question.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39676 @ 0.00027209 = 10.7954 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: maybe a better suggestion than the one above will materialise in my dreams. off to find out!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51800 @ 0.00028049 = 14.5294 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64850 @ 0.00028593 = 18.5426 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00027877 = 1.5611 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23000 @ 0.0002729 = 6.2767 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44000 @ 0.0002729 = 12.0076 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4754 @ 0.00026773 = 1.2728 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42995 @ 0.00026706 = 11.4822 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00026814 = 5.3628 BTC [+]
assbot: Run your PHP code in our online shell (150+ versions) ... ( http://bit.ly/1EReIPd )
assbot: Un sexagénaire usurpait la photo d'un mannequin pour séduire les femmes sur le web ... ( http://bit.ly/1bVUPez )
davout: 60 year-old ugly dude seduced women over the internet using fake profile pictures, has sex with lots of them by inviting them to get laid in the dark while blindfolded
davout: you can't invent that shit
punkman: davout, is that his pickup-artistry book?
davout: exactly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 176600 @ 0.00026488 = 46.7778 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.00026317 = 10.0399 BTC [-]
assbot: Equal Pay for Monkeys - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1brSjw4 )
mircea_popescu: ahaha scandalized monkey
mircea_popescu: anyway, "fairness" is not involved there.
davout: kakobrekla: nice one
davout: "fairness, invented during the french revolution"
davout: mircea_popescu: how is it not?
mircea_popescu: animals fuck, that doesn't mean animals display "the human notion of love". they display the animal notion of love.
mircea_popescu: therein depicted is some monkey behaviour.
mircea_popescu: no matter what happens, it's still not going to be relevant to the human behaviour.
kakobrekla: shupup monkey
mircea_popescu: yes, i understand that cunts run perl and people on the internet posing as scientists with their "experiment" consisting of a two monkey show use cunts for brains
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, regexp is not the basis for research, or knowledge.
davout: animals can not display "the human notion of X", by definition
mircea_popescu: exactly.
davout: maybe fairness is meant in a broader sense than "the human notion of fairness"
mircea_popescu: and inasmuch as a "animal fairness" is not in common use, calling that fairness is really not unlike calling the guy cunthead.
davout: or as in "fairness as we thought was unique to humans"
mircea_popescu: if it is, it's his job to explain it. not unnamed "philosophers'"
mircea_popescu: yeah. we also thought the color red was unique to staplers, perhaps.
mircea_popescu: who's "we" ? celia whatshername /
mircea_popescu: for that matter, envy is what's at work there, not "fairness".
mircea_popescu: the animal doesn't go "you know bob, this is un-sjw!!1". it goes "fuck you bitch!"
davout: how'd you know it doesn't go "you know bob, this is un-sjw!!1, also fuck you bitch!"
mircea_popescu: i don't.
mircea_popescu: for all you know snakes are wise and the world rests on turtles.
mircea_popescu: how do you know god didn't mean for you to be a woman ?
davout: i'd tend to think that if this was envy, the first monkey would eat the cucumber, and then express some sort of anger at the experimenter, but yeah, what do i know, i'm not a monkey, at least, most of the time
mircea_popescu: maybe eating the lesser food is how they enact group hierarchy
mircea_popescu: and the monkey is going "fuck you bitch" quite literally at the experimenter, whom it (wrongly) perceives as a monkey of the same age and sex.
kakobrekla: maybe cucumber is more healthy
davout: yeah, sounds sensible
mircea_popescu: so it doesn't want to be made his bitch.
davout: cuntcumber
mircea_popescu: maybe you know, random idiots who failed in academia and took to the internet with their dog and pony "scientific" show did this FOR A REASON,
mircea_popescu: and that reason being that when you're stupid, you really need an audience that doesn't know better.
mircea_popescu: then you can talk to it about "anthropologists" and not name any.
mircea_popescu: everyone's happy.
mircea_popescu: i know when russel told me that fairness was invented during the crusades, i fucking quoted him by the name on my blog.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62825 @ 0.00026382 = 16.5745 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52325 @ 0.00026226 = 13.7228 BTC [-]
mike_c: "it looks like Goldman Sachs wants to get in on the ground floor."
mike_c: i guess they haven't read mp's "you're too late" post
mircea_popescu: iirc the pr bit specifically disclaimed any gs investment in bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22450 @ 0.0002621 = 5.8841 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30600 @ 0.00026713 = 8.1742 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: "As the only woman likely to run for president as a Republican, Carly Fiorina, who officially announced her candidacy Monday, is the GOP’s counterweight to Hillary Clinton." << o hey look what the dead dog of silicon valley dragged in.
pete_dushenski: somehow carla didn't end up mentioned in this article 2014/12/17/a-swimming-pool-of-idle-tears-wont-spare-the-affirmative-action-fallguy-shes-still-the-canary/ but she was definitely in mind when writing it.
pete_dushenski: hell, come to think of it, she inspired the whole damned piece.
assbot: A swimming pool of idle tears won’t spare the affirmative action fallguy. She’s still the canary. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1dI7TW9 )
pete_dushenski: this exact same fembot v. fembot routine played out in alberta over the last 3 years.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.0002672 = 10.1937 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: of course, neither fembot made it to this upcoming election, which just so happens to be tomorrow.
pete_dushenski: both were sacrificial lambs to appease sjwesque monkeys, and are now but dust.
mircea_popescu: jesus christ.
mircea_popescu: the woman that sunk hp.
pete_dushenski: or the woman that was thrown in the fire when it was clear that the building was going down and the firefighters were no longer of any use
pete_dushenski: "Police in Texas killed two men who opened fire on a security officer outside a contest to draw cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, the Associated Press reported." << hahaha a muhammad drawing *contest* !! you just know that's going to lead to fireworks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 100 @ 0.017 = 1.7 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: nah, not at all. she got hired as a great brilliant mind, came up with her brilliant great plan, some men grumbled but w/e, woman haters. it got implemented, it was a disaster, she was canned.
mircea_popescu: that's her story.
mircea_popescu: that she's even got the nerve to set foot outof the house is very reminiscent of that horvath character.
pete_dushenski: ah well in that case... burn the witch!
pete_dushenski: !s horvath
assbot: 6 results for 'horvath' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=horvath
pete_dushenski: ah, not the asian one then, the white one.
pete_dushenski: so hard to keep 'em all straight.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00026178 = 10.89 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: in "the glory of linux", chapter eleventy billion : find . -size 1258 finds nothing. find . -size 1267 finds nothing. find . -size -64 finds all the 1258 and 1267 byte files the previous two didn't find.
mircea_popescu: because not only is 1258 not equal to 1258, it is also smaller than 64.
mircea_popescu: (you hafta add c after the number if you mean bytes. because that's logically neither the default nor is anything wrong with ignoring b silently)
pete_dushenski: "Avoiding that one hundred kilo iron lump in the front of the car makes it so much easier to build safe cars." << yes, because road-going zeppelins are the pinnacle of automotive safety. lol.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22165 @ 0.00026169 = 5.8004 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: still, some funny lines in there. good find mats !
mircea_popescu: "We asked if the constant sound of the engine -that frankly disturbed us from being able to listen to the radio- could be turned off. But it couldn’t. Very distracting."
mircea_popescu: lol fucktarded future is here.
mircea_popescu: " How much does it cost to fill up at home," << are these people fucking retarded ?
mircea_popescu: not like it's free at home. a liter of gasoline = a dollar = 3kWatt-hours = a dollar or w/e
mircea_popescu: "It is still unhealthy to breathe in – and smells very bad!" dude srsly, sweden is on euro 4. you can't even tell it exhausts something.
assbot: Jack Whitham: Review: UndoDB, a reversible debugger ... ( http://bit.ly/1zIaLMH )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 188842 @ 0.00025545 = 48.2397 BTC [-] {4}
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu: no matter what happens, it's still not going to be relevant to the human behaviour. <-- I may not be a monkey but I am a primate
funkenstein_: anyway how are things asseteers? sorry i've been out of touch, a lot of logs to go through ;)
mircea_popescu: you will have to bear in mind that all hominid species other than us are extinct. this isn't some sort of direct lineage, as the layman often imagines.
mircea_popescu: monkeys are our (rather distant) cousins, not our uncles or something.
funkenstein_: it's a good point, all species have evolved the same amount of time
mircea_popescu: moreover, the split is what, 10mn year old.
funkenstein_: yet we are both frugivores who highly value sexuality beyond reproduction
mircea_popescu: it's unclear we're "frugivores". humans altogether seem carnivores.
mircea_popescu: facultative rather than obligate, but anyway
funkenstein_: uh, no. without fruit we die quickly
funkenstein_: without meat, we just live longer with fewer diseases
funkenstein_: but lets not go down that route, we eat what we can and what we please and enjoy it :D
scoopbot_revived: News! Qntra (S.QNTR) April 2015 Statement URL: http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-april-2015-statement/
mircea_popescu: jurov ^ (shares added)
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the 10mn years thing : the oldest split that created the rat (murines) as different from other rodents is about 13mn years ago.
mircea_popescu: buncha many kinds of rats spawned cca 3mn years ago.
funkenstein_: wow, that is not that long ago. crocodiles didn't change much over that time.
mircea_popescu: same is true of humans, and like in the case of those rats (and most other mammals), the alternatives are extinct
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ that's kind-oif the point here. all sorts of fraud available to people trying to push pseudo-anthropology agendas. like for instance people don't readily understand just how huge the genetic and paleohistoric gap between us and chimps is.
funkenstein_: it's hard to tell how rapidly we are changing in this context as well
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ for the record, no fruit was part of the human diet for the longest time (until the persians actually invented fruit - which is exactly what they did)
mircea_popescu: just like maize was not part of the diet until the aztecs invented it.
funkenstein_: so scurvy was epidemic?
mircea_popescu: no, because you can get vitamin c out of all sorts of other sources.
mircea_popescu: the problem with sailing was that they had no fresh stuff
mircea_popescu: and c vitamin oxidizes quickly
mircea_popescu: if you think about it - they could have used say dried figs, if it was ~fruitness~ specifically.
mircea_popescu: it wasn't.
mircea_popescu: but this aside, yes scurvy - and to a much larger degree pellagra - were endemic and major qol reducers up until very recently. one of the many "blessings" of agrarian settlement.
mircea_popescu: they couldn't really tell, between bubonic plague and malaria and everything else the "better" social arrangements blessed them with.
funkenstein_: in more current news, a small scoop offering http://frass.woodcoin.org/on-chumponomics/
assbot: On Chumponomics | Free your Frass ... ( http://bit.ly/1ES0xt8 )
mircea_popescu: fluffypony heh
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ you actually maintaining that blog ?
mircea_popescu: "Bob: Don't worry, we factored that into our budget after they upped Avagadro's number in China last year."
funkenstein_: barely :)
funkenstein_: hehe
mircea_popescu: well if you intend to it can go into the list. but do you ?
funkenstein_: yeah thanks
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell williamdunne add http://frass.woodcoin.org/ to list plox
assbot: Free your Frass | Blogulations on Coinologies by Funkenstein ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELE1ks )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
danielpbarron: funkenstein_, "why not place the Earth at the exact center of a set of large mechanical spheres with seem to move at arbitrary unexplained speeds?" spheres which* seem
funkenstein_: thanks
mircea_popescu: "can be point " "usually pinpoint"
mircea_popescu: but the idea that any fiat-oriented economics is essentially studying fart flow is sound, and yes it's all a matter of diffusion.
mats: 12:58:25 <+funkenstein_> in more current news, a small scoop offering ... << "ren ming bi" == "renminbi"
mircea_popescu: certainly your model is a lot better than anything keynes spit out, or hence.
trinque: "fart flow" << ahahaha
mircea_popescu: hopefully i get to drink champagne off a chick's tits at the ceremony where an 80yo gets a major prize for this advance.
mats: additionally, the yuan is the unit, and renminbi is the currency, so it would not be correct to use that construction "every dollar, every renminbi, ..."
mircea_popescu: "Il a été mis en examen pour «viol par surprise» en mars dernier."
mircea_popescu: ahaha. bs.
davout: "monkeys are our (rather distant) cousins, not our uncles or something." <<< "l'homme descend du singe, sauf pour certains, qui y remontent"
chatquack: *gasp*
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's really about as nonsensical as "carbon causes global warming". men and apes have a common ancestor is all.
mircea_popescu: men and salamanders do too.
mircea_popescu: davout anyway, nothing in that piece makes me think this is anything but a very sad drama, of an old man who is being rejected merely for being old, and is forced to live in a society where random woman (who is no spring chicken either, "une trentaine my foot") can send him to prison arbitrarily.
mircea_popescu: how about she is affixed to a whipping post in front of the town church for two weeks, for being a disgusting nag and a total stereotypist ?
mircea_popescu: pretty fucking scandalous in any case.
chatquack: Hiya BingoBoingo, been a while
funkenstein_: the guy would have done better using the money for legal fees at the local puterie
funkenstein_: but some people either think deception is part and parcel of courtship, or perhaps just get off on it.
funkenstein_: anyway, i don't think they will be able to make lying about your age a violation.
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: "Lets just continue" << Let's*
pete_dushenski: btw, you should write more !
pete_dushenski: "Lets talk fiat." <<
pete_dushenski: "Lets consider two extreme" << ok, now it's just a stylistic thing.
kakobrekla: fuck you im fixing stuff
funkenstein_: the base fact that words were being strung together to convey meaning had somehow escaped me
funkenstein_: now I am trying to catch up, but it seems the form itself is still somewhat fluid
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: i'm yanking your chain :)
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: well, as fluid as the author in any event.
pete_dushenski: that's what a blog is, really, an expression of one's ability to swish and swirl one's energies into new spaces.
kakobrekla: anyway i fixed the twitter parser - its not working now. all back to normal.
BingoBoingo: Sweet ty kakobrekla
funkenstein_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HGKofrl7u4 <- pete_dushenski's keyboard
assbot: Roland Kirk-Clickety Clack - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKMRwS )
assbot: China rates its own citizens - including online behaviour | Buitenland | de Volkskrant ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKMS3T )
trinque: except not a WoT at all
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: heh. clicketyCLACK.
trinque: seems when the US disintegrates it'll be chinese totalitarianism the world has to endure next
pete_dushenski: chicom thing's not a wot, no, but rather a bizarre quantification of fleisch
pete_dushenski: but how else do you manage a billion plus without reducing them to ones and zeroes ?
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: "“More transactions means more bandwidth and CPU and storage cost, and more cost means increased centralization because fewer people will be able to afford that cost.” << isn't the rebuttal to that on your blog?
mircea_popescu: <funkenstein_> anyway, i don't think they will be able to make lying about your age a violation. << should be funny if they do... fill the jail up with 29 yo women.
trinque: pete_dushenski: I don't know that you manage them doing this either
assbot: The economics of sinking 20 MB Gavincoin blocks. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKN9UI )
assbot: How A Bigger Blockchain Is Less Secure And Why Block Size Ain't Gonna Increase Any Time Soon | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1GKN9UK )
mircea_popescu: jurov you know, i don't read the current propaganda either.
mircea_popescu: i mean on occasion, to lol at the hopresident
pete_dushenski: trinque: 'at least we tried'
trinque: Without such a mechanism doing business in China is risky, she stresses, as about half of the signed contracts are not kept. 'Especially given the speed of the digital economy it is crucial that people can quickly verify each other's creditworthiness.' << wearing a deer-skin and calling yourself bambi
trinque: there needs to be a term for that
trinque: where the lie's the inversion of the truth
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> anyway i fixed the twitter parser - its not working now. all back to normal. << win
pete_dushenski: trinque: 'teaching the controversy' is a variant thereof
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
trinque: pete_dushenski: yes it is
mircea_popescu: <trinque> seems when the US disintegrates it'll be chinese totalitarianism the world has to endure next << the price for vanity is rape. that's what the derps in the sec thinking they;re above doing what i tell you to do are doing toi themselves ; that's what the derps thinking theyre "vcs" and not humbling coming in here are doing for themselves.
ascii_field: # sks cleandb Fatal error: exception Not_found
mircea_popescu: vanity means rape.
ascii_field: ^ mega-l0l
ascii_field: dyfunctional garbage sop
mircea_popescu: poor ascii_field and the shit im sticking him in ;/
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: you're the worstbest thing that ever happened to ascii_field
ascii_field: as per mircea_popescu's ancient observation, this one's an instance of 'it works on my box'ism
ascii_field: that is, the other folks - who probably all eat lunch together - got sks running
mircea_popescu: no but seroiusly, lemme tell you - he wrote that phuctor thing, it's like 500 lines, and so sanely laid out i could go in there and understand what it does and how to modify it within ~5 minutes.
trinque: mircea_popescu: indeed, seems they will try (and fail) to implement components of the republic in the style of massive government
mircea_popescu: people who have no idea how to code go by the "well it works". this guy actually codes by "well this is how it should go"
mircea_popescu: it's very subtle, the quality, but for this reason valuable. not aggresing sanity and common sense is worth a heck of a lot more than "making it work"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i think he might be a keeper ;)
ascii_field: i shat that thing out in ~1 day, too
trinque: "look we're going to centralize breathing. breathing is now banned; the central govt will breathe for you"
ascii_field: it isn't rocket surgery, this
ascii_field: fucking ancient greek tech
ascii_field: (euclid's gcd algo)
pete_dushenski: rocket surgery, no, surgical rocket, yes.
ascii_field: to be fair, the first time i wrote it, it sucked donkey cock (wrote gcd in python, it was dog-slow and O(n^2) )
ascii_field: then rewrote with gmp (what gpg uses)
pete_dushenski: trinque: seems nuts to us, then again, there's a method to the chinese madness or else they wouldn't have ruled so much of the world for so much of modern history.
pete_dushenski: and produced so many of the world's greatest tech.
scoopbot_revived: News! American Green Deploys Two Bitcoin Capable Vending Machines URL: http://qntra.net/2015/05/american-green-deploys-two-bitcoin-capable-vending-machines/
mircea_popescu: yes. the method is : people are idiots and if you're going to parent them, you gotta parent them.
pete_dushenski: *technologeeees.
trinque: I'll admit I'm about as far removed from being able to understand Chinese culture as possible
mircea_popescu: im no expert either.
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: actually china is a case study in failure to develop (invented, sure, but -develop-) various techs
pete_dushenski: no argument here.
pete_dushenski: seems the europeans have been far stronger at taking the baton and running with it.
pete_dushenski: but from whence the baton ? often china.
pete_dushenski: it's actually a hell of a team they form.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that part is indisputable, but cui malo ?
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2014 04:48:55; asciilifeform: of, you could say, insufficiently high temperature in the simulated-annealing sense.
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2014 04:52:44; asciilifeform: rec. reading re: china: 'The Rise of Early Modern Science: Islam, China and the West', T. E. Huff
mats: (review)
ascii_field: that review is a zoological specimen indeed
ascii_field: written by a real rotter of a liberast
ascii_field: (see last paragraphs!)
ascii_field: how dare we say that a culture sucked!
mircea_popescu: ascii_field my question remains tho. so they fucked up science. indisputable. to whose detriment ?
ascii_field: they almost got bulldozed in '30s
mircea_popescu: almost only counts in special olympics.
ascii_field: only by sheer luck, there is still such a thing as chinese
mircea_popescu: only by sheer luck is there such a thing as the us, too.
ascii_field: but, in my analysis, if it weren't for su's heavy diddling, the place would've been carved into manageable bantustans by usa post-war
mircea_popescu: alternatively : cixi's refusal of railroads did have the end effect of no railroads. but also, of silence.
mircea_popescu: suppose chinese monarch had refused... windows. apple. whatever.
ascii_field: forgo railroads - enjoy the silence - until better folks come along and lower your people into untermenschenrasty and build own rails
mircea_popescu: except... it didn't quite work like that.
mircea_popescu: some ills are apparently unavoidable, sure. but the "better folks" got raped meanwhile.
pete_dushenski: and now china can't afford silence ?
mircea_popescu: well certainly not anymore than japan can afford samurais.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
pete_dushenski: so now the chinese are in the position of the europeans 60 years ago.
pete_dushenski: wherein they're overburdened with structural issues but no superior alternative is knocking down their door.
pete_dushenski: so they're at once the "better folks" and the untermenschen.
pete_dushenski: how's that supposed to go ?
mircea_popescu: im not sure i follow this model.
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: this is actually the historic ru model of development, once termed 'colonialism with crown as the sole european'
ascii_field: see peter I, etc
mircea_popescu: it seems altogether probable that's what the chinese communist party envisages as ideal, and acts as if were the case.
mircea_popescu: course the model worked historically about as well as welfarism (aka popular democracy)
ascii_field: goes kinda like this: 'my subjects are rubbish and only fit as cannot fodder or to be worked to death in the mines. possibly after x centuries of this, we can make some better ones.'
ascii_field: this is, in a way, an inescapable professional disease of cultures that 'got' industry in a hurry
mircea_popescu: the worst part of that being that it's actually true.
ascii_field: (ru, cn, jp, in)
ascii_field: aha us
mircea_popescu: this is the inescapable human condition : most people are exactly rubbish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62732 @ 0.00025421 = 15.9471 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: which puts the enormity of the chinese quandary in perspective.
ascii_field: how culture answers this realization - determines, largely, whether you get zimbabwe or britain etc
pete_dushenski: how to manage a 130 billion lbs of rubbish ??
mircea_popescu: the problem, of course, being that with globalization you really can't get options. it'll have to be pret a porter, one thing universally.
ascii_field: throw in sea, build artificial island!
trinque: pete_dushenski: probably by reducing them to insecure, servile rubbish
pete_dushenski: that servile part is key
trinque: this scheme of the govt giving you a report card seems intended towards precisely that
pete_dushenski: and already part of chinese culture
mircea_popescu: moreover, didn't japanese employees have to pass physicals at work ?
pete_dushenski: us got the insecure part, but without the servility.
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2014 03:41:36; asciilifeform: even ancient china, apparently, had 'cram schools.' (see miyazaki, 'china's examination hell' - neat little monograph on the subject)
ascii_field: ^ mega-b00k on subject
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: well, waistline tax.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9762 @ 0.00026048 = 2.5428 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the general idea of people who did intellectual work with/in china is that the chinese folk, while broadly very servile, are utterly uncreative.
ascii_field: u.s. became the kind of inscrutable and thoroughly-dysfunctional beast we know today partly through the '50-'60s preoccupation with mindgames and 'programmatory' psychochumpatronics, where 'they must not realize they are servile' was the mandatory algo
mircea_popescu: whereas the western folk, while broadly useless, can at least be selected for sanity.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field kinda what makes people unhappy. any slave'll tell you, there's monumental fulfillment in submission.
ascii_field: uncreative << incidentally, it is not necessary to travel to china to witness this. u.s. academia today is solidly confucian (not merely ethnically, this - only in part - but in -operation-)
ascii_field: and virtually every physical sciences whateverthefuck in usa is solidly east asian in staffing
mircea_popescu: hey, they got a feeding hole, and are feeding.
mircea_popescu: confucianism IS very good at a well specified set of tasks.
ascii_field: not even chumps, as such - many of these folks (i usedto work with'em) are laughing all the way to the bank, riding the thermodynamic waterfall between usd salary and cn cost of living
ascii_field: entire departments of u.s. universities have been converted into cn embassies of a kind
ascii_field: where everything is run on their traditional scheme and on their meatwot
mats: discussions on cn in here are always entertaining
assbot: Carly Fiorina failed to register this domain. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlKzaB )
pete_dushenski: ascii_field: how cn cost of living at us university ?
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: they mail the usd home
mircea_popescu: mats way off ?
ascii_field: where it buys cars, houses, fattens children (raised by grandparents) etc
mircea_popescu: ascii_field ftr, that's pretty much how eastern europe ran throughout the 90s too.
ascii_field: even now (where is the adult male population of latvia, and why ? etc )
mircea_popescu: problem is meanwhile it retardified.
mats: mircea_popescu: meh. cn history is inscrutable, even to chinese.
mircea_popescu: fortunately the us is not large enough to retardify china, but i think we're gonna see some pretty spectacular purges down the road.
mircea_popescu: mats sort-of like trilema :D
mats: 14:48:49 <+mircea_popescu> anyway, the general idea of people who did intellectual work with/in china is that the chinese folk, while broadly very servile, are utterly uncreative. << i hear such things repeated all over the english speaking internet... might as well be a meme now
mircea_popescu: might be yeah
pete_dushenski: ascii_field: afaik adult male latvians are working in germany and britain.
ascii_field: ^ aha.
mircea_popescu: as opposed to adolescent female latvians ?
pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field
mats: most pre-modern recorded chinese history is exceedingly unreliable
mats: this unreliability is magnified the further back you go
ascii_field: even i knew this.
ascii_field: cn never really invented 'history' in the euro sense (of at least attempting de-mythologized recordkeeping)
mircea_popescu: mats word.
mircea_popescu: contemporary records are just as unreliable, it's just that meanwhile our friends in the us inhabituated us with this barbarism
mircea_popescu: ascii_field tbh, i suspect the euro notion of truth never really caught on, even in its own colonies.
mircea_popescu: judea bastardized it into some sort of idiotic mysticism, which is really just rehashing their pre-existing idiocies
mircea_popescu: new world did exactly the same thing, dressed its solipsism to look like euro truth. but it's still solipsism
ascii_field: obligatory:
mircea_popescu: to this day the principal value of latin america literature is its patent insanity in this sense.
ascii_field: 'I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, ‘History stopped in 1936’, at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even
ascii_field: the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building
ascii_field: emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines’. ' (orwell, 'looking back on the spanish war')
mircea_popescu: i mean think about it, dialectics was a novel device early 1900s, impressive and all.
mircea_popescu: then again in early 2000s.
mircea_popescu: imagine a programming language in which bubblesort was periodically rediscovered with awe.
mircea_popescu: must be java-something, right ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised at how often this kind of thing -actually- plays out in programmaretarddom
mircea_popescu: i would not be surprised. i'm a manager, recall ?
mircea_popescu: much more keenly aware of how retarded engineers are than the contrary.
ascii_field: e.g., java folks 'discovered' garbage collection in mid 90s (after mccarthy invented it in 1960, but this 'does not count' because reasons.)
mircea_popescu: herpderp's rules or what was it.
mircea_popescu: "crocker"
ascii_field: crock'o'shit
mircea_popescu: "Blanton, Brad 1996, Radical Honesty: How To Transform Your Life By Telling The Truth"
mircea_popescu: hopefully he has a patent for this
mircea_popescu: "a novel method to live. not previously described in art."
ascii_field: 'radical nutrition: how to transform your life by not eating shit'
ascii_field: 'novel method of non-coprophagic alimentation'
assbot: Monty Python - Theory on Brontosauruses by Anne Elk (Miss). - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlNHDd )
ascii_field: i will add, for interested readers, that mccarthy's garbage collection (and other items) 'did not count' for the same precise reason why mpex 'does not count' to american muppets, and in general why the annoying kid who 'throws the curve' and sends entire classroom of imbeciles to the bottom of the sea, is decreed to 'not count.'
trinque: no one could possibly have been that far ahead of everyone else
ascii_field: no one could possibly (TM)
assbot: Re: Engineering Envy [was: Re: CL and UML] - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlOqV7 )
ascii_field: 'The problem is that "exploitation" happens only to people stupider (and consequently less informed) than the "exploiter". The root cause of this whole world problem is that some people are smarter than others. There are two basic solutions to this problem: Kill all the morons, or kill all the brains. If you look at how several political regimes have behaved throughout history, you might get the impression that they
ascii_field: are precisely adopting one of those two options. (Social democracy is a little more advanced: Kill everything outside 2 sigma.)'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00027016 = 17.7495 BTC [+]
jurov: qntra shares distributed
pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103350 @ 0.00027159 = 28.0688 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: How about educate the morons?
ascii_field: educate amoeba
funkenstein_: Often the "exploiter" is just a moron that has been given a gun and a uniform.
trinque: you'd have to first have the power to compel the morons to learn
ascii_field: funkenstein_: who holds the rifle during deer season? man or deer? and why
funkenstein_: actually they will not let you wear a police uniform if you score too well on standardized tests
trinque: cop isn't the exploiter in that scenario
trinque: the thing he works for is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00027166 = 11.0837 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: hmm. . exploitation (n.) 1803, "productive working" of something, a positive word among those who used it first
funkenstein_: Bad sense developed 1830s-50s, in part from influence of French socialist writings (especially Saint Simon), also perhaps influenced by use of the word in U.S. anti-slavery writing;
pete_dushenski: "Canada's Bombardier Inc and Egypt's Orascom Construction and Arab Contractors will build a $1.5 billion monorail near Cairo, Egypt's housing minister said.The 52 kilometre (32 mile) project is set to be completed by mid-2018 with funding from a 14-year loan" << monorail, monorail, MONORAIL!
ascii_field: achtung, panzers!
assbot: The GNU C Library: glibc iconv Implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1JMxYk6 )
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: 7f1d6731d000-7f1d67324000 r--s 00000000 08:14 14287177 /usr/lib64/gconv/gconv-modules.cache
ascii_field: mircea_popescu ^^^^
BingoBoingo: Fuck, telnet on an infusion pump???
trinque: BingoBoingo: hospital networks are required by law to be secure; I don't see the problem with this
BingoBoingo: trinque: Putting aside the nonsensical "hospital" and "secure", home use of these things isn't uncommon
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: with ethernet ?!
trinque: BingoBoingo: just kidding
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Yes, "telemedicine"
BingoBoingo: !up PFate
BingoBoingo: 1up miaviator
PFate: thanks
BingoBoingo: !up mariorz
BingoBoingo: !up mats
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
mats: vulns being released for Hospira equipment due to pending acquisition by Pfizer
jurov: !up miaviator
jurov: PFate: this is just for 30mins, so speak up if you want
PFate: i just got booted from conneciton, not sure i have much to talk about ATM
mod6: <+ascii_field> http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/glibc-iconv-Implementation.html << wtf is this thing doing in bitcoind << is this another automagically linked in pos to glibc?
assbot: The GNU C Library: glibc iconv Implementation ... ( http://bit.ly/1EM1zFX )
mod6: ok gotcha. thanks for the heads up.
ascii_field: mod6: now, as far as i can tell, it doesn't jam up the attempted static build
ascii_field: but wtf is that thing even in there for.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48800 @ 0.00027337 = 13.3405 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Pakistan was with us when China stood isolated: Xi Jinping - Home - DAWN.COM ... ( http://bit.ly/1EM2dmO )
lobbes got his new 'training laptop' installed with debian over the weekend.
lobbes: Now to change the init to something other than systemd (for reasons I don't fully grok yet, other than it is being pushed pretty aggressively, from what I gather)
lobbes: and the whole 'roll up all the things into one thing'
lobbes: which seems to make sense as against what makes linux strong
lobbes: I've much to learn
lobbes: so far, it feels noticeably faster than the windows 8.1 that came with the machine (toy)
lobbes: !up ascii_field
lobbes: !up mats
scoopbot_revived: News! Mining Difficulty Increases, Albeit By A Small Amount URL: http://qntra.net/2015/05/mining-difficulty-increases-albeit-by-a-small-amount/
assbot: National Iraqi News Agency - NINA ... ( http://bit.ly/1IHbZt9 )
ascii_field: achtung, panzers!
ascii_field: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full Orphanage Thermonuke.
ascii_field: current height == 129871
ascii_field: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, mod6, et al ^^^^^
ascii_field: memory footprint climbs very, very slowly. as far as i can tell, thus far, this is 100% due to fragging
ascii_field: (as previously mentioned)
ascii_field: also the thing syncs ludicrously quickly.
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: !up mats
ascii_field: 'To honour, while you strike him down, / The foe that comes with fearless eyes; / To count the life of battle good, / And dear the land that gave you birth, / And dearer yet the brotherhood / That binds the brave of all the earth.' (TM) (R)
ascii_field: which one of you folks will be the brave man, who tests this one.
ben_vulpes: wowee, ascii_field
ben_vulpes: field-testing's the easy part (sort of)
ben_vulpes: pulling the pin under fire much less so
ascii_field: testing is just a cheat-heuristic for finding structural problems
ascii_field: if real hero - go straight to reading
ascii_field: note that this one isn't a backport from anyone
ascii_field: it is 95% amputation
ascii_field: incidentally, memory footprint pegs out at ~120M
ascii_field: again strongly suggesting fragging
ascii_field: (why? exercise for the alert reader. if no one gets, i will explain at some point)
ascii_field: current blockheight == 146226
mircea_popescu: ascii_field o srsly ?
mircea_popescu: As of April 30, 2015, the new price for .ws domains has been increased to
mircea_popescu: $18.98 per year.
ascii_field: again, this is a very preliminary thing. i strongly encourage others to attempt replication.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-05-2015#1119821 << "i have a cure for quadriplegics : alcohol rubs!"
assbot: Logged on 04-05-2015 19:47:29; funkenstein_: How about educate the morons?
mircea_popescu: "they're invigorating, to the people who can walk ; selling alcohol helps the echonomy".
mircea_popescu: ascii_field it occurs to me that the word funkenstein_ was looking for, to describe the economy of chumps (whose coin is the bezzlar) would be... echonomy.
mircea_popescu: sort-of works on the infinite mirrors principle.
mircea_popescu: "All the benefits of loadable modules are available in the GNU C Library implementation. This is especially appealing since the interface is well documented (see below), and it, therefore, is easy to write new conversion modules."
mircea_popescu: gotta love 'em.
mircea_popescu: anyway, what would it be doing in bitcoin. waiting for when libnss is yanked out, to kick in.
ascii_field: many interesting observations could be written re: the echonomy; taxonomy of chumps (free-range vs corralled, etc.) and the like
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: aha. the spittoon is brim-full and rancid
mircea_popescu: maybe once we get 100k pounds a year to study our memories of collegiate dentistry.
mircea_popescu: "The drawback of using loadable objects is not a problem in the GNU C Library, at least on ELF systems. Since the library is able to load shared objects even in statically linked binaries, static linking need not be forbidden in case one wants to use iconv."
mircea_popescu: and this is on www.gnu.org/
ascii_field: 'we will slip the cock in with such grease that you will never notice'
ascii_field: is the equation here.
ascii_field knew that mircea_popescu's antennae would stand up from reading that thing
mircea_popescu: and all this so that idiots can use their idiot alphabets.
mircea_popescu: fuck you, everyone. 27 letters or go back to your fucking yurt.
ascii_field: not even.
mircea_popescu: computers are for humans not for whatever the fuck special needs monkeys use "diacritics"
ascii_field: it is so that idiots can use 1,001 incompatible encodings for their hieroglyphs
ascii_field: (recall 'mule' debacle in emacs ? that almost killed it as a living project ?)
ascii_field: the real mega-question is why it is in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: because it was there.
assbot: Logged on 04-05-2015 20:41:33; mats: vulns being released for Hospira equipment due to pending acquisition by Pfizer
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: tried your rng yet ?
assbot: Logged on 04-05-2015 16:45:26; funkenstein_: wow, that is not that long ago. crocodiles didn't change much over that time.
assbot: Crocodile captured at Daly Waters - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ... ( http://bit.ly/1IHicoX )
mircea_popescu: mats meh, the entire china pakistan thing seems overstated.
ascii_field: still syncing
ascii_field: 151566
mircea_popescu: ascii_field didja put instrumentation in place to measure speed or bw ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i have a clock on the wall
ascii_field: that so far is the instrument
ascii_field: this was 10 min of work, srsly
ascii_field: tonight i'ma valgrind it
mircea_popescu: myeah reading the patch now
mircea_popescu: ascii_field would help if you can also measure bw used/block
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: if any part of the patch does not make immediate sense, ask now - i'm about to get into a wheeled coffin for a few hrs
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is wondering about wasted bw (of which there is megatonnes) ?
mircea_popescu: seems pretty clear. plus as davout would say, it's quicker.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't perceive what the great danger is here.
mircea_popescu: it doth not alter verification or anything
ascii_field: air filter convo from c3
ascii_field: it raised my suspicions by working 'too well'
mircea_popescu: and yes i wonder about bw. not such megatonnes.
ascii_field: a block gets fetched, here, potentially infinitely many times
mats: mircea_popescu: i agree. US strategists, on the other hand, should be concerned
mircea_popescu: definitely.
mircea_popescu: which is why the piece howls like so. "india should be concerned about how we pooped our pants"
ascii_field: every time someone spews out a bastard, we end up snarfing preceding blocks
ascii_field: but it really cooks, in terms of apparent performance on the runway
mircea_popescu: see past 300k.
ascii_field: the purpose of this patch, incidentally, was not to cure what ails us, but to make it possible to intelligently study the fragging
mircea_popescu: most everyone has low index blocks sorted anyway
mircea_popescu: (there's a passive gossip-y sort of sorting that occurs as time goes by, because new clients join and so the "overall" blockchain is ever more sorted in early blocks as time goes by)
ascii_field: mega-fraggage
ascii_field: ~130MB
ascii_field: and, tell-tale sign, non-monotonic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47550 @ 0.00027008 = 12.8423 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Bitcoin trader Digital CC aims to become the Uber of money transfers | afr.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1R7JTeg )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: "the uber of X" jesus christ
trinque: that's the new "facebook of X"
trinque: "er uh... you know how Uber like, disrupted... something? yeah we want to disrupt too"
trinque: *activate main disrupter array*
trinque: meanwhile somewhere in a dark, dusty WU cubicle, "Sir! You wont believe this but... someone's *disrupting* us!"
jurov: on second thought, the simile is even more funny
jurov: because it means, they are going to recruit gobs of chumps to do their dirty work cheaply
williamdunne: Isn't the 'Uber of' thing about getting your users to supply the infrastructure rather than getting the expensive assets yourself?
williamdunne: i.e AirBNB has no property
mircea_popescu: at great coist to themselves.
williamdunne: Uber has no cars
mircea_popescu: airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ?
williamdunne: Everything the USG does is funny
trinque: sure, that's been the whole social web scam since forever
williamdunne: I don't see it as a scam, maybe you can change my mind, but it seems like a pretty efficient way to do things
mircea_popescu: i fail to see the difference between "here's how to cook if you have hardwood floors" and "here's how to make 30 bux (out of which we take half) by taking on 5k liability"
williamdunne: I've not used Uber before, but I have used AirBNB and it was cheaper than a premier Inn but in a really nice house in the centre of London
williamdunne: Room was clean
williamdunne: Food was good
williamdunne: People said they've enjoyed doing it and earn more than just renting out the room
williamdunne: win/win/win, no?
mircea_popescu: i also had nice experiences with crack whores. still not much of a business model.
williamdunne: Well sure, I wouldn't invest in an AirBNB hotel
williamdunne: But I don't think that is the point
williamdunne: Its meant to be renting spare rooms not a dedicated hotel, no?
williamdunne: Sorta the point
mircea_popescu: it's not legal to rent rooms in places not deidcated for this purpose.
mircea_popescu: for an entire array of perfectly sound reasons
williamdunne: Since when was anyone here interested in what is legal?
trinque: lol who is this kid
mircea_popescu: mkay. it's nonsensical to rent rooms in places not dedicated for this purpose.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like impromptu dentistry and hobbist airplane piloting, this.
mircea_popescu: if it works great and if it blows up... whoops.
mircea_popescu: nobody could have foreseen a blow-up, we're success-oriented these days
trinque notes that he can't yet find profit numbers for airbnb
mircea_popescu: trinque from what i hear they're about to get litigated into the ground.
mats: they're not publicly traded
mircea_popescu: unlike musk, they're not actually somebody. hard to put up a fight. even with graham's efforts.
williamdunne: I dunno, maybe I'm missing something but it seems like a pretty solid alternative for short stays. Wouldn't use it for a holiday but, a weekend in a new city? Sure.
williamdunne: Seems like a lot more can go wrong with amateur dentistry than amateur room-renting
williamdunne: Just like amateur-programming, and amateur-boxing rarely result in death
williamdunne: Maybe amateur boxing not so much
trinque: first guest leaves ass crabs in the bed for the next guest
trinque: who's liable when #2 sues
trinque: right answer is goddamn everyone gets sued, including airbnb
williamdunne: Renter you would hope, for not cleaning the sheets
williamdunne: Landlord?
williamdunne: Doesn't sound right
trinque: so they're going to get dragged into fight after fight, yet they're delegating control over the situation to just about anyone
trinque: so really in intending to minimize their risk they've maximized it
trinque: or so I read
trinque: s/ass crabs/rapist in closet/ or whatever
mats: why would you possibly want to use airbnb
mats: why not just invite a homeless person into my home and let him stay there for a few days
mats: and then move back in
trinque: mats: because wisdom of crowds == disruption
mats: same filthy experience
trinque: and we uh, want to disrupt
mod6: <+ascii_field> [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full Orphanage Thermonuke. << Just saw this on the train & read patch. Great work!
mod6: <+ascii_field> 'we will slip the cock in with such grease that you will never notice' << heheh, yeah pretty much.
trinque: mod6: right, and everyone on both ends of the transaction will ultimately try to blame their reputation system or whatever didn't work
mats: i'd rather be slapped in the face with half a dozen cocks than sleep in a mystery airbnb bed
williamdunne: trinque: Doesn't look like there has been too much going wrong, a few cases of houses being vandalized, or customers being dickholes
assbot: Airbnb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GW2ggw )
williamdunne: mats: How do you deal with hotels?
trinque: hotels are places which deal with this shit every day
trinque: and are a good hotel to the extent that they do that well
trinque: when I was a teenager I did IT monkey stuff for a Hilton
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> and yes i wonder about bw. not such megatonnes. << this was the thought that came to my mind too.
trinque: poor hotel cleaning ladies dealt with actual human shit far more often than I'd have expected
trinque: or god knows what other kinds of mess in the rooms
jurov: !up shesek
mod6: so, I have that deb6 aws env still... I used to use MRTG, but now I guess this 'RRD' thing is all the rage. I know for sure that I can test mem on a 1s interval with vmstat and capture that with `script`. I'd really like to compare the network traf of full sync with the patch, and without.
mod6: So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo.
trinque: end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility
trinque: that's the "innovation"
mod6: got an AMI built from stage3 with a new kernel, which promptly kernel panic'd when I used said AMI to provision a new system
mod6: then, I tried the same thing without a new kernel, with the same result. I'm gonna try one more time with kernel and see if I get any different results.
trinque: "We could deploy a carnival so much more quickly if we didn't bother with safety precautions, and instead let each guest assemble his piece of the rides, and signing off that he is personally liable for that part."
mod6: I don't think I will... so not really sure where to go on that. trinque, I think you're gonna have to help me build this thing; if you can.
trinque: mod6: I have my own needs for a nicely scripted gentoo-ec2 deployer
trinque: might build one this week
jurov: what kind of panic?
mod6: sec...
trinque: first thought is whether that's actually an ext4 volume
mod6: (this error is from the build where I /didn't/ build a new kernel)
trinque: and you only have the ext3 support turned on
mod6: i don't have evidence to support this claim: i'm very sure everything was setup for ext4
trinque: mod6: post the .config
mod6: <+mod6> (this error is from the build where I /didn't/ build a new kernel) << no new kernel, no .config
trinque: well what kernel is it though
trinque: you just ran genkernel all ?
mod6: now, the new one I'm trying; that one has a .config -- that's actually the last thing I just did in the steps, config'd the kern, build the kern. now need to make the AMI and try it.
mod6: i didn't do anything special in that case. tbh, didn't know I had to, or even what to do, if anything.
mod6: There was some talk that one wouldn't/shouldn't need to change kernels anyway for AWS.
trinque: depends on whether it's hvm or pvm
mod6: it's all paravirtual
mod6: anyway, i'll give an update in here after this next attempt with a new kernel.
trinque: that would probably be it; you need the xen turds turned on in the kernel in that case
mod6: I know for sure I did that the first time... didn't seem to help. however, the first attempt, I'm not positive that I didn't somehow screw-up the fstab.
trinque: that could also be it
mod6: the instructions that you posted were slightly off from what is reality on these environments. (perhaps just a bit old)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13148 @ 0.00027434 = 3.607 BTC [+]
mod6: i.e.: none /syssysfs defaults 0 0
mod6: sysysfs isn't a thing
mod6: it's supposed to be this, I'm pretty sure:
mod6: none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0
trinque: yeah probably old; I didn't use a write-up
mod6: fffff
mod6: sorry, paste'd 2x
mod6: no worries, now when I check it with `mount -a`, it all seems happy
mod6: maybe the document just didn't space the /sys & sysfs properly.
mod6: *shrug*
mod6: anyway, moving on. I'll get the test in motion for asciilifeform's new patch.
trinque: that error does seem to indicate it trying to mount an ext4 as ext3
trinque: so says my quick googling
mod6: The first attemp's error might have... I only got a glimpse of it once though, it never let me look at the System log again for some dumb reason.
mod6: Anyway, no worries, I was moving fast. Figured I was just stupid.
trinque: cool. dunno when I'll make my auto-deployer thing, but I'll let you know if that materializes
mod6: np. i was more hoping if this 3rd attempt fails, you could watch over my shoulder to make sure I don't make any retarded moves.
mod6: (on 4th attempt)
trinque: sure, and I have a working kernel config handy if you want that
mod6: that may help too. i'll let you know how it goes. much appreciated.
trinque: sounds good
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29762 @ 0.00027434 = 8.1649 BTC [+]
jurov: trinque: i'm interested, too. i did it once but did not made a script from it
jurov: unrelated: if any poor soul is trying btrfs, use kernel >=3.19.5 . so far much better
trinque: how stable is that these days?
trinque: wiki says "under heavy development"
jurov: disk format is stable. runtime not there yet
jurov: i expounded on that yest
trinque: I'll check teh logs
jurov: could be very useful to roll back corrupted bitcoin database.. if i had snapshotting set up
trinque: seems nice for servers in general too, bad deploy, go back to previous snapshot
jurov: *if* you have spare disk space. otherwise, watch out
mircea_popescu: <mats> why would you possibly want to use airbnb << it's really a sort of swinger's club for people that are not really into swinging.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne << wikipedia may not be the best source of information
mircea_popescu: especially for anything not to do with star wars.
mircea_popescu: mod6> So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo. << you hear that alf ?
mircea_popescu: and i thought i was retarded.
mircea_popescu: trinque that's the "innovation" << exactly. and inasmuch as the us tort system is insane, this is both unavoidable and in a sense useful. but this doesn't mean uber makes any sense, anymore than shaving head in women makes sense. "but she's got lice" "well in THAT case"
trinque: hah indeed
trinque: mircea_popescu: speaking of women, I've mused before about a service that handles all financial and bureaucratic considerations for an average american
trinque: you give it your paychecks, it makes sure your taxes are done, all that, and gives you an allowance
mircea_popescu: tits app ?
mircea_popescu: i imagine Pierre_Rochard 's thing is actulaly very close to that. prolly bestwork as a wrapper on it
trinque: mircea_popescu: looks interesting; this is for maintaining and publishing your books?
trinque: looks like as a business, but similar needs
mircea_popescu: you mean Pierre_Rochard s thing ?
trinque: yeah
Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: trinque yup that’s right up my alley
mircea_popescu: i dunno, he's working on it. but basically yeah, should be a web/bitcoin interface for accounting'
Pierre_Rochard: I have a “personal finance” chart of accounts and a “service business” chart of accounts, they’re CSVs that are easy to customize
trinque: Pierre_Rochard: very cool; I think americans would pay for a managed version of this
trinque: nobody wants to do their damn taxes, or pay their own rent
trinque: they just want to be given an allowance by dad after everything's handled
trinque: I'm not sure there's enough allowance left to allow sufficient margin for the accounting service
trinque: americans are after all mostly poor
mircea_popescu: should be a very interesting world once the us is poor and east/central asia ric
Pierre_Rochard: trinque: agreed, I’m thinking I’ll have a source code subscription for the hacker types, and a hosted treasury concierge for the lazy/busy
trinque: Pierre_Rochard: right on
Pierre_Rochard: yeah this isn’t for poor people
Pierre_Rochard: poor people don’t have money problems, they have lack of money problems
trinque: !b 2
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/09J2KJ0.txt )
Pierre_Rochard: asians understand the value of good accounting, went to school with many of them
mod6: http://dpaste.com/1NHSMPB.txt << patched into bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE, sig looks good, although the hash's didn't match what the filename was changed to on btc-dev ml
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00026691 = 8.3276 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: mod6 iof the hashes don't match you shouldn't generall merge
mircea_popescu: tho i suppose this one's small enough to read
mod6: i wonder if I did something wrong... jurov?
trinque: also mod6 output of a recent genkernel build http://dpaste.com/00XCYJR.txt
trinque: maybe relevant to your barf message
mod6: these are the commands I ran:
mod6: mircea_popescu: anyway, yeah, agreed. I did look it over, and is matching from website as far as I can tell. & byte count is the same.
mod6: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4007 May 5 00:19 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
mod6: *shrug*
mod6: ... taking gentoo snapshot for 3rd AMI attempt.
mod6: yep, got that too... but check the sha256's of the dl'd patch files, see if they match the checksums that the ml inserted into the file name.
mod6: if not, see if they came out same as mine from my dpaste
danielpbarron: same as yours
mod6: s/files/and sig files/
danielpbarron: i'm not sure it's supposed to come out the same as the thing that gets shoved into the filename
mod6: ok gotcha. just need some clairification from jurov on that.
danielpbarron: it should match whatever hash ascii referenced in his signed email message though
mod6: i thought it /was/ supposed to be the same. but, maybe im just derp derperton tonight.
mod6: The hash referenced inthe email was for the bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE.tar.gz tarball, which is correct.
danielpbarron: the patch.sig is by ascii's key, so it shouldn't matter what it hashes to or what btc-dev says
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 50000 @ 0.00009 = 4.5 BTC [-]
mod6: yeah, shoudn't being the key word there; in my mind, it certainly should match.
mod6: otherwise, why do it?
mod6: what purpose would it serve?
danielpbarron: i do not know
mod6: :]
danielpbarron: to make it a pain in the ass to verify any of this stuff; to set the bar high so as to keep out the children
mod6: sweet, new ami complete.
mod6 builds new instance with AMI
danielpbarron: http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev The system will rename the patch and add unique identifier (SHA-1 hash of the contents) to the filename, both in the outgoing email and in the archives. Any additional signatures must refer to this received filename including the hash.
danielpbarron: there's yer answer: it's sha1; not sha256
danielpbarron: checks out on my end
mod6: ah sha1, see, derp derperton
mod6: mine matches just fine too. thx for digging that up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19450 @ 0.00026447 = 5.1439 BTC [-]
mod6: i'll post my build steps.
assbot: Singapore’s prime minister shares his C++ Sudoku solver code | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuBbBe )
trinque: not bad
trinque: nicely done
trinque: mod6: boots?
mod6: no fails 1/2 checks, kernel panic'd
trinque: did you try that rootfstype=ext4 ?
trinque: on the kernel command line
mod6: that's for the kernel config right?
mod6: i had build this kernel yesterday. i don't see anything about "ROOTSTYPE" in my config that I used... (posted above)
mod6: i guess I can rebuild again and stick that in there.
trinque: for the kernel boot parameters provided by the bootloader, might be via this thing https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/UserProvidedKernels.html
assbot: PV-GRUB - Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuDcND )
mod6: oh huh.
mod6: i thought that one thing said that I didn't need Grub unless i was using hvm or whatever.
mod6: i try it with that...
asciilifeform: mod6: you have an ext4 rootfs dontcha.
asciilifeform: mod6: either 1) don't or 2) build ext4 into the kernel
trinque: (and not as a module)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46345 @ 0.00026111 = 12.1011 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/34uu02/why_increasing_the_max_block_size_is_urgent_gavin/cqycy4h "Rather, the only push you see against larger blocks come from strong advocates of personal autonomy and decenteralization, like Peter Todd; or the MPOE crowd (regardless of what you might think about them, they wouldn't be any to bend to commercial or government interests)."
assbot: nullc comments on Why increasing the max block size is urgent | Gavin Andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuFigz )
asciilifeform started valgrindized run of thermonuked-orphanage tester
asciilifeform: is anyone still having checksum problems ?
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> tho i suppose this one's small enough to read << they should ALL be small enough to read.
asciilifeform: no exceptions.
asciilifeform: <mod6> meanwhile in gentoo land, kernel panic'd again << that's not a real kernel panic, again. that is a box that can't read its rootfs
asciilifeform: <danielpbarron> there's yer answer: it's sha1 << why do we have sha1 anywhere
asciilifeform: sha512(asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch) == 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78
asciilifeform: please say if you got something else.
asciilifeform: jurov: can we have less mutilation (file names?) plz ?
asciilifeform: i much prefer systems where what i put in, is what ends up coming out.
asciilifeform: unless explicitly asked otherwise.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ? << 'airbnb', 'uber', etc. fill a direly urgent market niche in usa - 'orcish' favour-style services for folks with no friends. it would take a very strong chance of being busted, for folks to quit using these. (consider what is the penalty for, e.g., smoking weed - does it deter?)
danielpbarron: !up livegnik
livegnik: Thank you Daniel! Hi everyone.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu> sort-of like impromptu dentistry << big business in the turd world (of which usa is properly considered - a part)
livegnik: I'm Tim Pastoor, co-founder of Identifi. I'm just the business developer who's working on the project. Sirius is the real dev in there.
mod6: ok bitcoin-v0_5_3_1 + Orphanage Nuke is running with `nmon -f -s3` & `vmstat 1`, so we should have some good metrics when complete.
danielpbarron: "CEO & Co-Founder of Identifi -- Collaborating on an Open Source Protocol for Sending Trust over the Internet; Advancing the Wild Wild Web into a Web of Trust."
asciilifeform actually used 'uber' for the first - and so far, only time - getting back from airport after c3
livegnik: I didn't know in what other way to describe it in ~140 characters. Open for suggestions / feedback anytime :)
mod6: asciilifeform:
mod6: # sha512sum asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
mod6: 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
mod6: it's fine, I just didn't realize that in the filename, the turdolator uses SHA1
asciilifeform: <trinque> poor hotel cleaning ladies dealt with actual human shit far more often than I'd have expected << one of the major brainmelters for me, when i went to c3, was that the gurlz who serviced the hotel rooms, were pretty
asciilifeform: this is unheard of in usa
trinque: asciilifeform: ah yeah they were total trolls at my old gig
asciilifeform: <trinque> end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility << this is part of it, but the major profit comes from de-institutializing - de-usgizing - the cabbies and hotels
asciilifeform: in the sese that random schmuck driving 'uber' has no paperwork, no pensions, no unemployment insurances, cannot sue for anything, etc.
trinque: asciilifeform: hm yeah, "this is so much better!" because it's not wearing lead shoes
mod6: I should re-iterate that I'm still waiting on a pogo to come to me...so this v0.5.3.1+OrphanageNuke test is running on AWS deb6 (amd64)
trinque: makes sense.
asciilifeform: and probably has a day job, so he doesn't need anything like a 'living wage' either
asciilifeform: there will be myriad parasitic waterfalls like 'uber', i expect, which feed upon the difference between what it -actually- costs to do something like driving cab - at butugychag subsistence levels with zero regard for the meatbag's future - and what usgtronic tentacles which masquerade as american firms presently charge.
asciilifeform: (naturally, usg will pocket the bulk of this difference, but such is the nature of muppet war)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135400 @ 0.00025545 = 34.5879 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: livegnik: are you familiar with the 'wot' we use here ?
livegnik: I've just bumped into it, thanks to danielpbarron pointing me to it, and that's how I've ended up in here :)
asciilifeform: livegnik: consider telling us what you perceive is the advantage of your product over what you now know is the state of the art.
danielpbarron: livegnik, not sure how much you've already found; here's a good starting point http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/wot_and_reputation
assbot: wot_and_reputation [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMwpI )
livegnik: It's a protocol for identity management for both humans, entities, and machines. It gives the ability to create Sybil-proof WoTs (to the extent that the least trustworthy node added, decides the strength of your security), for almost anything.
asciilifeform: livegnik: what is involved in a 'sybil-proof' wot for machines ?
asciilifeform: or, for that matter, people? (how do you decide what constitutes a person?)
livegnik: Yesterday I've written an extensive comment on Ian Grigg's article about ID issues, especially in combination with the blockchain. It's quite the read, but I think it'll be worth your time, if you want to get a more in-depth view of Identifi:
assbot: Financial Cryptography: The Sum of All Chains - Let's Converge! ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMAFN )
livegnik: asciilifeform: Mostly a whitelist. Whitelisting solves the Sybil. The thing is, whitelisting hasn't been very user-friendly up till now, without the security trade-off.
asciilifeform: whitelist composed by whom? kim jong un ?
asciilifeform: the pope ?
livegnik: asciilifeform: A set of attributes, identifiers. I've extensively elaborated on it in the comment on Ian's article.
livegnik: Might be tl;dr though ...
livegnik: There's no whitepaper atm, so the comment in that article probably explains it best/most thus far.
asciilifeform: try to answer this one compactly, it should be answerable. who composes the whitelist ?
livegnik: Also, you can find the proof-of-concept on GitHub: https://github.com/identifi/identifi
assbot: identifi/identifi · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjMY7b )
livegnik: The identity to whom the whitelist belongs.
livegnik: Each identity creates it's own whitelist / WoT.
asciilifeform: so your system reduces to 'if you trust 1,001 people who turn out to be sybils, shame on you, you oughta have known better' ?
asciilifeform: this is how existing wots work. but to say that this 'solves sybils' is, at the very least, odd
livegnik: You could put it that way, yes. But it can visualize sybil swarms by showing the few 'real IDs' linking to it.
asciilifeform: what is a 'real id' ?
livegnik: The people you know and trust (for whatever reason) basically, and therefore have verified.
trinque: So we're all the same -- we people are the same as smart contracts, as block chains, etc, and we should be able to make recipe that describes us. We should be able to collect all these things together and make it such that we all look the same. << wtf
trinque: this is written in a haphazard manner
trinque: aside that it just strings together analogies
danielpbarron: !gettrust livegnik
assbot: livegnik is not registered in WoT.
asciilifeform: the text is astonishingly painful to read.
asciilifeform: so far it seems to add up to a 80% re-implementation of the proper wot out of toothpicks and tape.
asciilifeform: with a distinct lack of clarity re: what it is all for.
assbot: WoT Trust - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjNt1e )
trinque: So we can have a "mainnet" can we also have "AliceNet" or "Mynet?" Yes, in theory we can. << this does *not* follow
trinque: insofar as you're saying will computers run and call themselves asscoin if I create an asscoinnet, sure
trinque: considering "what is bitcoin" is called for before calling it fungible with any other *net
trinque: or *coin
trinque: "I mean, they're all blockchain technology."
trinque: livegnik: this "guid" you're reaching for is called a keypair
livegnik: I'll need 10 more minutes, sorry guys.
asciilifeform: !up livegnik
mod6: trinque: where can I add "rootfstype=ext3" or "rootfstype=ext4" to the list of boot params? I don't see anything thing like that in the kernel config -- except where I've already enabled EXT4 and EXT3
mod6: well, i guess I didn't have EXT3 enabled, just: "Use ext4 for ext2/ext3 file systems" under "Filesystems"
mod6: (in `make menuconfig`)
livegnik: I'm back. Sorry for the interruption.
livegnik: asciilifeform: my/Ian's/both our text pain to read?
livegnik: asciilifeform: Hopefully this interview I've done with current partner, before I joined the project, clears up what it could be used for in the 'real' world: http://unbit.nl/2014/09/16/martti-malmi-on-bitcoin-and-identifi/
assbot: Unbit.nl - Martti Malmi on Bitcoin & Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLRWZL )
livegnik: danielpbarron: I like Bitcoin-OTC, even though I haven't used it myself. I do believe that I grasp the concept itself though.
trinque: livegnik: reading that I'm not clear on what "it" is
trinque: mod6: that parameter is one provided to the kernel at boot
livegnik: trinque: it == Identifi
danielpbarron: "Martti Malmi is a former computer science student from Helsinki University of Technology who nowadays works as a software developer. He is well-known for being the first person to join Satoshi Nakamoto in the development of Bitcoin."
mod6: trinque: from grub??
livegnik: danielpbarron: The main difference between Bitcoin-OTC and Identifi, if I understand correctly, is that the Bitcoin-OTC WoT acts as a WoT-for-all, whereas with Identifi each identity has it's own WoT, and there's no 'general' score.
trinque: mod6: yeah from whatever the bootloader is; there's also a way to build command line (meaning kernel command line) parameters into the kernel itself
mod6: ah, ok.
mod6: thx
danielpbarron: the general score can be ignored for the most part (in the OTC / assbot WoT)
trinque: livegnik: ah I'm looking at the website for that project now
livegnik: I agree that it can be ignored for the most-part, but Identifi doesn't even contain it.
livegnik: trinque: Would that be identifi.org or identi.fi?
danielpbarron: livegnik, do you get the whole L1 L2 thing?
livegnik: The first is a quite shallow explanation of the project, we'll update it within a few months or so (after rounding up the pilot projects, board of advisors, and funding).
livegnik: The latter (http://identi.fi/) is a proto-type of what a front-end COULD look like.
trinque: livegnik: so this is a haxed bitcoin where the payments are instead ratings, yeah?
trinque: livegnik: was looking at everything linked from github
livegnik: danielpbarron: Could you elaborate on the L1 L2 thing for me?
decimation: livegnik: what are you going to use funding for?
livegnik: trinque: Yes, for the most part. And there's no blockchain.
danielpbarron: livegnik, my L1 or "level one" consists of users that I trust (have given a rating) directly
danielpbarron: my L2 "level two" consists of all the users trusted by users in my L1
danielpbarron: so it is like a WoT within a WoT as you might imagine, where each user is a WoT or whatever
livegnik: trinque: There are 2 types of messages: 1.) verifications of identity's identifiers, and 2.) trust ratings ("Alice is a terrific barber!". "Bob is the worst car salesman!", "DID_REPAY_LOAN_ON_TIME", etc.)
livegnik: danielpbarron: Ah, the viewpoints. Capice.
danielpbarron: !up sunbeachbabe
livegnik: danielpbarron: Identifi does the same with the trust ratings, you can set your viewpoint from 0 to infinite.
sunbeachbabe: Lol assbot
danielpbarron: in the real WoT, the max is 2
danielpbarron: what would an L3 consist of? friend of a friend of a friend? no thanks
livegnik: Within Identifi networks the max is infinite, but the proto-type of our front-end hands you the options 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or infinite degree.
livegnik: Well, that info is there. It's up to you to filter.
assbot: Spaceballs - "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate." - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLSLln )
livegnik: ghehe
trinque: danielpbarron: what does that make us?
trinque: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
trinque: ah great movie
decimation: livegnik: what are you going to use your funding to do?
livegnik: decimation: Mainly for further development, in cooperation with our pilot partners.
livegnik: I'm actually not interested in a very high valuation, to be honest, just to be able to pay a few devs to work on this full-time.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95296 @ 0.00025239 = 24.0518 BTC [-] {3}
livegnik: The idea for business model for the company we have in mind probably comes closest to Red Hat, without the Enterprise edition.
livegnik: One size that fits all. Additional applications could be ran on-top of the node.
decimation: you get the government to pay you for other people's work?
trinque: !up livegnik
decimation: !up livegnik
livegnik: decimation: Not sure if I understand ...
decimation: what is 'redhat's business model without enterprise'?
livegnik: Services mostly. Helping business who want to integrate Identifi nodes within their existing environments mostly.
livegnik: Mostly.
livegnik: Sorry, 4:33am(sterdam) over here.
trinque: I'd be interested to see an example of that business model working for something that's not a) propped up by VC b) propped up by govt or c) already had a viable consulting business
danielpbarron: heh, Anduck is in your "address book" of ratings
livegnik: trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project full-time. I've actually quit my dayjob for it and am burning my savings.
livegnik: Yep.
danielpbarron: !gettrust assbot Anduck
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user Anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -5 via 7 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=Anduck | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/Anduck/
livegnik: Everyone in the Bitcoin-OTC WoT should be in there, if correct. There's a Bitcoin-OTC crawler for Identifi nodes :)
decimation: livegnik: what do you have to offer over properly using gpg?
assbot: identifi/identifi-crawlers · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLThQq )
livegnik: decimation: Well, I guess usability on many fronts mostly. Also, it can be integrated within many existing fields.
danielpbarron: sounds like this idea can be adapted to the gribble/assbot divide problem
livegnik: I'd even dare to predict that this should enable business models like, e.g, a decentralized credit rating agency.
livegnik: What's the gribble/assbot divide problem, if I may?
danielpbarron: the WoT forked
livegnik: Hmm. How did that happen?
danielpbarron: someone mined a block that was too big :p
livegnik: Ah :P
danielpbarron: it's in the log which you should read
livegnik: Identifi is blockchain-agnostic in itself.
livegnik: Got url?
assbot: Logged on 24-04-2015 13:15:14; mircea_popescu: gribble went down at some point. this is rare, but whatever, happens. nanotube was also unresponsive. after a few days in this position assbot got enabled to wot
livegnik: Can I drop a few lines (like 15 or so) in here to give some examples of what Identifi nodes could be applied to?
danielpbarron: any of the many free txt file hosting services
livegnik: Sure thing.
danielpbarron: dpaste is a favorite in here; also pastebin
assbot: - One-way authentication, so that the party that you're authenticating with does - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLTH9q )
livegnik: I'll check dpaste. I've been using pastebin up till now for the most-part; years.
danielpbarron: so there should be a link on your site to my "address book" listing ?
assbot: Identifi - danielpbarron ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjUDTa )
trinque: livegnik | trinque: So would we. Sirius spent 1.5 half years working on the proof-of-concept, and I've spent the last 8 months working on this project << for the logs, it is never, ever a good idea to leap off into some venture with both feet when the venture has no profitability or plan to achieve it
trinque: livegnik: this killed my last employer, as it should have
trinque: the idea that profitability is something you can "figure out along the way" if at all, is a braindead american VC concept
livegnik: trinque: We plan to break-even within (max) a year or 3.
trinque: as noted earlier in the logs, these days our chief export is bullshit
livegnik: I can't say too much about it at this time, but I can tell you that we have an accountant who's helping us to crunch the numbers.
trinque: yes but this is "if we get x and y consulting dollars" and so on?
livegnik: That's one revenue stream, yes.
livegnik: Happy to elaborate on the others when I can make that info public.
trinque: sure
trinque: and maybe you will; difficult position to be in to say the least
trinque: livegnik: what does each node store its WoT in?
livegnik: An sqlite3 database.
trinque: as I understand it you're basically using the bitcoin transaction propagation stuff to send out rating data?
trinque: then stuffed into sqlite
livegnik: Yes,
trinque: so you're merely using "bitcoin" as a gossip layer
trinque: keypairs and gossip about ratings is probably not far from the mark
livegnik: And we're working on a permission database / filter/firewall & communication application that can run between the node that stores the actual data, and the other trusted nodes, in order to set thresholds based on permissions for sharing info.
livegnik: You could put it that way. It's a layer to shuffle your marmot around, or whatever analogy you prefer.
livegnik: Not far from the mark?
trinque: if you're not using the blockchain I dunno why you don't just use gpg keys and some gossip protocol; as I understand it bitcoin isn't even very good at that part
danielpbarron: lolol "shuffle your marmot"
trinque: heh
trinque reserves judgment on whether this is a nice marmot yet
trinque: seems there's a simpler way
livegnik: trinque: I'm not much of a coder, so I'm not able to answer that last remark at this point. Martti probably has a fitting answer for that one, according to my previous experiences with his mostly-always-sufficient answers.
trinque: livegnik: get in our WoT so you can self-voice, and invite him along too
livegnik: I'm open for suggestions though, and again, I'm just the business developer. Martti is the real dev on this one.
trinque: debate is how things operate around here
livegnik: That's why I love hearing your feedback.
livegnik: I've been trying to find people to break this theory, but haven't bumped into them yet. At the same time, there aren't too many people working on these types of solutions throughout the world atm.
assbot: irc_bots:assbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLUtTH )
trinque: instructions on registering
livegnik: I'm finishing up some things atm, and will then go catch some rest. My IRC server is up 99% of the time (the missing 1% was yesterday), so I'll be back in here :)
livegnik: Thanks for your thoughts on this so far. I'll invite Martti to join us in here.
trinque: I see two problems, one solved by gpg entirely, which is establishing an identity
trinque: the other is a publishing problem, mostly solved by gpg
trinque: "who says"
trinque: the rest of the problem is what they said, about whom, and how that information is discoverec
trinque: *discovered
danielpbarron: You can try it out at http://identi.fi. You can easily log in with FB/G+/Twitter/email and give ratings and verifications. It's still in alpha stage and the user interface is under constant development. My goal is to make it easier to use than the address book on your phone. << that part's got to go if it's going to be worth anything
assbot: Identifi ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLUXt8 )
danielpbarron: !up livegnik do you have a GPG key?
livegnik: Not for this purpose, yet. I'll fix it later today (after I wake up).
trinque: rather than gossip protocols and all this other fancy shit, what's wrong with a simple gpg message format that constitutes a rating
livegnik: Sorry for bothering you with level-upping me constantly. I won't be on for much longer now anyhow, so I won't waste too much of your typing and/or clicking ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94476 @ 0.00025766 = 24.3427 BTC [+]
livegnik: There's probably not much wrong with simple gpg messages. There's more to Identifi than rating messages however.
danielpbarron: it's less of a bother than your apology for the perceived bother
livegnik: In that case, sorry to bother you with the apology for the perceived bother.
trinque: oh shit, meta-apology
trinque: livegnik: go to bed!
livegnik: ghehehe
trinque: and bring your partner in here for a beating next
livegnik: haha
livegnik: I'll try and do that.
livegnik: I know who's beating I'll put my money on though.
trinque: heh sounds like you already have
livegnik: I did? Oh, I might have become insusceptible to them then by now.
livegnik: Disregard that last one, miscommunication on my side. I think you're right about me going to bed then.
livegnik: I enjoyed talking to all of you. See y'all in Round 2! :)
trinque: livegnik: cheers
livegnik: danielpbarron: Thanks for that link! With Identifi it could look something like this: https://twitter.com/timpastoor/status/585515976566960128/photo/1
mod6: trinque: same thing :/
trinque: sheeit
mod6: has the same error in the System Log.
mod6: oh well, i guess we can pick it back up tomorrow.
trinque: may help; that's a working gentoo kernel out on ec2
trinque: and otherwise if all else fails I'll be putting my own build script together before long
trinque: kernel /boot/bzImage root=/dev/xvda1 rootfstype=ext4
trinque: from menu.lst
mod6: yeah isn't that what i have in grub? ^^^
trinque: yup
mod6: meanwhile...:
mod6: # ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getblockcount
mod6: 138922
mod6: <+trinque> may help; that's a working gentoo kernel out on ec2 << i'll try this out tomorrow
mod6: <+trinque> and otherwise if all else fails I'll be putting my own build script together before long << ok sweet!
trinque: sounds good; bbl
mod6: anyway, if my grub looks good, then maybe it's my kern. but it could be something else... not quite sure.
mod6: ok night
assbot: Silicon Valley talent wars: Engineers, come get your $250K salary - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1FLXpQj )
decimation: "It's "a horrific idea," [paying $250k] said Sam Altman, the president of Y Combinator, Silicon Valley's most prestigious technology incubator. "It seems on paper like a really good idea [since] great engineers can create huge value. [But] here's why it doesn't work: You really want a company full of missionaries, not mercenaries. And so if your company is known as the place where you can make a huge cash salary, you end up
decimation: attracting" the worst cultural fits. "
decimation: of course he's not a fan, because if suddenly 'talent' thinks they are worth $250k instead of $50k, his own business implodes
Pierre_Rochard: ^ place this quote under “self-serving” in a dictionary
decimation: Pierre_Rochard: exactly. also, given that if you are making less than $150k in silicon valley you are literally a bum - it won't take much for 'salary fashions' to change
Pierre_Rochard: “You really want a company full of missionaries, not mercenaries.” <- well let’s say their are fewer missionaries in the labor market than there are missionary positions. You have to compete for them somehow.
Pierre_Rochard: “we’re more religious than the next guy d00d!! we only worship helping consumers with javascript!!”
mircea_popescu places sam altman's "mp killed our business model, sadly, as he said he would" quote under "unexpected honesty" in his own personal disectionary.
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 22:08:54; assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 15:07:09; Adlai: this is a good point... even if each wot rating is signed, this can be a false friend - what if you're not looking at the latest version of the ratings? if only we had some way of achieving trust-minimized consensus...
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: <decimation> http://www.cnet.com/news/silicon-valley-talent-wars-engineers-come-get-your-250k-salary/ <<< the mega-l0l is that 250kusd doesn't even buy a garage there
assbot: Silicon Valley talent wars: Engineers, come get your $250K salary - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZbjTa )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120239 << i was wonderin the same thing. time for sha512 erryone.
assbot: Logged on 05-05-2015 01:25:57; asciilifeform: <danielpbarron> there's yer answer: it's sha1 << why do we have sha1 anywhere
decimation: asciilifeform: amusingly here's a breakdown of silly-con valley real-estate: http://allenc.com/2015/04/salary-requirements-for-a-house-in-silicon-valley/
assbot: Salary Requirements for a House in Silicon Valley ... ( http://bit.ly/1bZbopL )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's a modest condo, like 1.5-2mn ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: according to decimation's chart - very close to this.
decimation: median price in palo alto was $2.4 mil in 2014
asciilifeform: where i live - about 1/2mil
mircea_popescu: "Let’s assume we want a $1.0M, below-median house in Redwood City. You’d have to start by coming up with ~$220k in savings for the down payment + closing costs, and then take out a mortgage for the remaining $800k"
mircea_popescu: heh. mkay.
mircea_popescu: decimation but those be houses, mostly. right ?
decimation: yeah freestanding homes
decimation: I think a small flat goes for 0.5-1 mil
mircea_popescu: A car is pretty much a requirement in the suburbs. Even without accounting for car payments, gas and insurance and tolls will eat up $200-300 per month easily. << i thought tesla is free!
mircea_popescu: or is that only in sweden
decimation: you are saving so much in gas!
asciilifeform: they built phree charging garages in key chump habitats in usa
asciilifeform: (promotional gimmick)
mircea_popescu: "Salaries and bonuses and stock grants may be jumping higher in our current boom cycle, but a lot of it is recaptured in real estate." heh
decimation: no shit sherlock
mircea_popescu: the sad truth is that "quantitative easing" essentially ends up as a real estate bubble.
asciilifeform: the squid giveth, the squid taketh away.
decimation: exactly. there's nowhere for all the vast slosh of bezzlars to go, other than real estate and the stock market
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o i know. was very amused at some incredibly hamhanded esl scam-pushing linked earlier.
decimation: the indentfi guy?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform speaking of penalties and actual deterrence : it's as you may know rauchen verboten here. so i pull out a cigarillo and head to a table where three girlies are derping (at starbucks). ask for a light. they... all have it.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck carries matches/lighters around if they don't fucking smoke.
asciilifeform: folks who smoke weed
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