Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-02-19 | 2015-02-21 → ↓
cazalla: thestringpuller, what's wrong with using it for a card game like hearthstone?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41472 @ 0.00042431 = 17.597 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: cazalla: "To get the in-game economy going, EverdreamSoft plans to sell 70,000,000 BitCrystals, which is the premium currency used in Spells of Genesis to forge card packs or new items." << sounds like ethereum nonsense
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00042706 = 6.1924 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00028529 / 0.00028529 / 0.00028529 (22381 shares, 6.39 BTC), 30D: 0.000175 / 0.00025036 / 0.00028529 (50436 shares, 12.63 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61000 @ 0.00041859 = 25.534 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00042772 = 7.2926 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34977 @ 0.0004111 = 14.379 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68028 @ 0.00042772 = 29.0969 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27541 @ 0.00042832 = 11.7964 BTC [+]
cazalla: thestringpuller, ah so more a kickstarter than an actual game
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38305 @ 0.00041109 = 15.7468 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: call me when no debit cards are involved
ben_vulpes: it reeks of wankery at this point, but eulora is the only btc-only game in town
ben_vulpes: cultismo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00040837 = 5.5947 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00040837 = 25.9723 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40700 @ 0.00040531 = 16.4961 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: WizSec: MtGox investigation update and preliminary release ... ( http://bit.ly/1AbOlB3 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00040646 = 2.0526 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62950 @ 0.00041078 = 25.8586 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31471 @ 0.00040509 = 12.7486 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5529 @ 0.00040367 = 2.2319 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16593 @ 0.00040367 = 6.6981 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22122 @ 0.00040367 = 8.93 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28785 @ 0.00040336 = 11.6107 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66485 @ 0.00040334 = 26.8161 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107315 @ 0.00040177 = 43.1159 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up saifedean
saifedean: good morning, folks, it's been too long
BingoBoingo: it has
saifedean: so our conversation last time has gotten me to dig up the old heretic PhD and clean it up into a shorter readable paper with most the interesting bits
saifedean: in pdf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15778 @ 0.00040137 = 6.3328 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32300 @ 0.00039791 = 12.8525 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56200 @ 0.00039711 = 22.3176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68422 @ 0.00039653 = 27.1314 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24778 @ 0.00039653 = 9.8252 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165174 @ 0.00038877 = 64.2147 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12698 @ 0.00038499 = 4.8886 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up saifedean
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00038947 = 3.2131 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54050 @ 0.00038499 = 20.8087 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36441 @ 0.00039425 = 14.3669 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57400 @ 0.00040017 = 22.9698 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: CRISPR Natural History in Bacteria | Quanta Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1GbfPrB )
assbot: Seals With Clubs Shutters | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gbhltx )
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/seals-with-clubs-shutters/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101250 @ 0.00038694 = 39.1777 BTC [-] {2}
dignork: pete_dushenski: /q fluffypony
dignork: emm, sorry
fluffypony: what did I do wrong now?
dignork: my bad, tried to pm you, but garbage in buffer turned command into noise on channel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66600 @ 0.00038335 = 25.5311 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00038966 = 5.8449 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44734 @ 0.00040256 = 18.0081 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 344383 | Current Difficulty: 4.44554159623438E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 344735 | Next Difficulty In: 352 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 17 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47222879455.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.22526
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45100 @ 0.00040847 = 18.422 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13481 @ 0.0004086 = 5.5083 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: height=210431 vs height=186701
assbot: YouTube makes a move against brand-sponsored videos ... ( http://bit.ly/1DA5lna )
punkman: how dare you not use adcents
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 28 @ 0.0890647 = 2.4938 BTC [-] {6}
mats: Fun fact: Lenovo has been shipping adware for years, with silent remote upgrades over HTTP. Adding a MITM cert is their idea of being less intrusive than showing popup ads during powerpoint presentations.
assbot: Logged on 13-09-2014 11:58:12; mats_cd03: fun fact: a piece of lenovo windows crapware downloads an xml file over http then downloads and executes windows platform-specific binary.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 60 @ 0.08505666 = 5.1034 BTC [-] {9}
[]bot: Bet placed: 3.6908 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before April 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1119/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 13.4909 BTC. Current weight: 85,070.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37100 @ 0.0004086 = 15.1591 BTC [+]
jurov: mats, i got only dead links there
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19900 @ 0.00039515 = 7.8635 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66661 @ 0.00039745 = 26.4944 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: it reeks of wankery at this point, but eulora is the only btc-only game in town << srsly.
mircea_popescu: saifedean: in pdf << BingoBoingo you got that pdf converter thing anymore ?
assbot: Convert documents to TXT ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5lQ38 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74179 @ 0.00039264 = 29.1256 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: so anyone wants to make a poker site ?
dignork: mircea_popescu: I'd love to, but currently I fail to see how to handle collusion, if player's identity is not WoT based
mircea_popescu: dignork to that problem i have a solution./
mircea_popescu: all that's needed really is an excellent coder willing to admin it long term.
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/02/the-superfish-funder-list/
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell saifadean why is it feb 2015 ?!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: a new posting, i see.
dignork: mircea_popescu: collusion is discovered in the long run, afer the fact, f you can't ban/punish the player, code quality won't help :(
dignork: you could require an escrow for each player though
mircea_popescu: dude, if i tell you it's solved... what, want me to pay you an escrow on it ?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: height=210431 vs height=186701 << is it about 10k a day or am i sorely misreading the numbers ?
mircea_popescu: "A YouTube representative called this revision a clarification of its existing policy, one that occurred late last year, intended to prevent advertiser conflicts and ensure viewers don’t feel bombarded by ads. Paul Kontonis, executive director of the Global Online Video Association, however framed it as an explicit change that prevents YouTube stars and multichannel networks from working prominent sponsor logos and i
mircea_popescu: mages into their videos without handing Google a cut of the revenue."
dignork: nah, the site should be self-sufficient imho, but I'd love to hear the solution though :)
mircea_popescu: the fucking lesson of "do not create content on a platorm you don't control" is never being learned is it.
BingoBoingo: It really isn't ever being learned
mircea_popescu: "its easier" "consumers have come to expect" etc.
BingoBoingo: And here I was thinking Geocities had taught everyone that lesson while it still lived
mircea_popescu: problem is that everyone meanwhile internet-died.
mircea_popescu: new generation of mouthbreathers every what, 5 years ?
mircea_popescu: dignork cool, but what i'm really looking for is someone to do the site.
BingoBoingo: Prolly 4 is the safer number
dignork: mircea_popescu: I can't currently handle it myself, but I can bring a friend and we'll split the work, would you be interested to cooperate?
mircea_popescu: well... the problem is the previous attempt failed on pretty much exactly the same lines. who is this friend, why's he not in the wot etc.
assbot: Tim Draper USMS Auction Winner Superfish Funder : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5ms96 )
assbot: Sim card database hack gave US and UK spies access to billions of cellphones | US news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5mv4z )
mircea_popescu: noooo, you're telling me tim draper "won" the "auciton" ? again ?
mircea_popescu: the one that really really happened ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He won the first one.
mircea_popescu: "won" "one".
mircea_popescu: that... also didn't happen.
BingoBoingo: Got part of the second one. Third is yet to come
BingoBoingo: They were said to have happened and Tim Draper's name came out of the hat more than once.
mircea_popescu: yeah yeah, i recall, the usms "auction" where they forgot to publish the results, in spite of foia, and their late promise to respect foia on an arbitrary extralegal self appointed date.
BingoBoingo: Indeed
mircea_popescu: credibility could be lower.
mircea_popescu: but i think it'd pretty much require best kim involvement for that result.
BingoBoingo: Don't think they'd waste her ass on this. Maybe second or third best kim.
mircea_popescu: best kim, korea kim.
mircea_popescu: what's his name, the kidnapped guy. jongun' ?
BingoBoingo: Ah, that one.
BingoBoingo: Armenian Kim has the better, if somewhat smaller ass.
mircea_popescu: that guy is nuts btw, check this out : he kicked his uncle out of power, if you recall ? the guy who pretty much made him succeed.
mircea_popescu: then killed his kids, then the kids' kids, like fiddy bodies by now.
mircea_popescu: somehow THIS is acceptable to the "democratic west". what wasn't acceptable was you know, gaddafi an' his harem.
BingoBoingo: Right. Then again gaddafi was a softer target
mircea_popescu: dubious.
BingoBoingo: Well, for some definitions of soft.
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2015 20:48:27; ascii_field: great sim heist << transparent nsa smokescreen. gsm uses toy crypto since day one (usg mandate) and has always been breakable with minimal effort.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja watch them do it?
mircea_popescu: who do what ?
asciilifeform: north kr executions
chetty: asciilifeform, ploy to get people to update to the ones they nice backdoors to?
mircea_popescu: mno. for that matter, i didn't watch my own birth happen, either.
asciilifeform: because i didn't. and i don't believe a word out of the usg shills that is south kr.
asciilifeform: if south kr prints 'sky in north kr is blue' it's worth an independent test.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but same holds for gaddafi ?
mircea_popescu: notice i'm limiting myself to relative statements ?
asciilifeform: absolutely same
asciilifeform: except the funny part is that he was pathologically generous to his subjects
mircea_popescu: my point is... they who tell the story and then act on the story are responsible toanswer as to their own consistency.
asciilifeform: bosnia/crimea.
mircea_popescu: haha it is kinda reversed huh ? democrat pres clinton supported one side in the serb-bosnian conflict,
mircea_popescu: dem pres obama supports the OTHER side in the ukr conflict.
asciilifeform: no secret to any ru folks - why.
mircea_popescu: i guess social sciences have made some progresses over the years ?
mircea_popescu: (dja know the joke with "what, you think medicine has not progressed in the interval ?!?!")
mircea_popescu: "WizSec has been investigating the MtGox crash since soon after it occurred, making us probably the longest running non-official investigation."
mircea_popescu: who thefuck is this again ?
asciilifeform: chetty: more complicated. ploy to stave off genuine voice channel crypto indefinitely through 'aha see they foiled usg plot, go back to using traditional phone'
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: so anyone wants to make a poker site ? << actually yes.
mircea_popescu: ok but can you code ?!
mike_c: just use wordpress
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/11J7TQ9.txt )
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: do it in 'ada' !
mircea_popescu: jesus fuck mike_c's snide is like kakobrekla level :D
pete_dushenski: mike_c: don't tempt me
mike_c: kindred spirits :)
mircea_popescu: "every hand can be a new post. and hwat, you password protect it, so there's security"
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: like teh boeing 777 ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15929 @ 0.00039564 = 6.3021 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: "and every comment is a check, raise, or fold
BingoBoingo: Feed the comment spam to the RNG
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: like most machines containing large pile of potential corpses during normal operatio
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: not random enough ;)
assbot: National Review ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5nK3Q )
mircea_popescu: and by law i mean us law, also known as lol.
asciilifeform: dead link ?
mircea_popescu: they beleeted it ?!
assbot: Male Student Allegedly Banned from Campus Because His Resemblance to a Rapist Was Triggering? - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5nPVa )
pete_dushenski: he could've offered to wear a ski mask to class
mircea_popescu: "t’s devastating to think of a student being unable to walk around campus without having to risk being traumatized by reminders of her rape."
mircea_popescu: wait, what ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18639 @ 0.00040797 = 7.6042 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: who the fuck asked the stupid bitch. if she can't come to terms with the world she should stay in the asylum
asciilifeform: when napoleon is in the asylum - harmless
pete_dushenski: typical "make the world conform to me so it's more fair"
mircea_popescu: that's the way this world works : normally adjusted individuals on the street, individuals who for whatever reason can't cope, in the coop.
pete_dushenski: like bitcoin = visa
asciilifeform: but picture a shadowy 'someone' were to let him out and actually crown him.
asciilifeform: ^ that is usa.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26761 @ 0.0004106 = 10.9881 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then they wonder why they have to pay people immense sums to keep secrets that still don't, and i don't have to pay them anything other than "yeah, yeah, i'll stick it to those dudes".
mircea_popescu: not that i mind the arrangement... but in absolute fairness it IS stupid as all fuck.
asciilifeform: when do we see some -real- secrets
mircea_popescu: probably after the rapture.
asciilifeform: rupture.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : rapt means rape, in latin
pete_dushenski: and i suppose sluttery means slavery in latin
asciilifeform: at any rate, the scandal described in the link is fantastic enough that one ought to ask for some public record suggesting it actually happened
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski raptus, look it up.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no because see, "to protect identities" this is not reported.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: o i believe!
asciilifeform: the court order presumably exists somewhere
asciilifeform: (or doesn't)
mircea_popescu: they've really built the most hallucinant re-enaction of the soviets : the guy doesn't have the right to anything EXCEPT he has the right for no one to know how the government fucked him over.
asciilifeform: so, what, are we to believe he was 'national security' gagged ?
asciilifeform: or simply doesn't feel like making his humiliation public
asciilifeform: or which is it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my construction (which obviously could be wrong) is that "the authorities" refuse to disclose it "citing privacy concerns"
mircea_popescu: that's it.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:47:31; asciilifeform: there is a related soviet joke. abramowitch (generic jew, not the oligarch) calls a friend who was over for dinner last night:
mircea_popescu: timeout waiting for punchline
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:47:40; asciilifeform: 'we're short of a few silver spoons. shame on you';
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:47:46; asciilifeform: friend denies
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:48:01; asciilifeform: next day, A calls again 'we found the spoons. but the stain on your reputation... it remains.'
danielpbarron: is it about 10k a day << more like 5k: 183012, 189051, 194563, 200106, 204520, 210431
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron which setup is this again ? pogo and sata ?
danielpbarron: 5.3G .bitcoin/ vs 39.0G .bitcoin/ on my full node
danielpbarron: so about 1/8 of the way?
mircea_popescu: so like 15% done in a week or so ?
danielpbarron: not too shabby
danielpbarron: should take 2 months in my estimation
asciilifeform: wai wat
danielpbarron: but this is on the systemd archlinux BS
mircea_popescu: depends how it behaves towards the end.
danielpbarron: maybe it speeds up with a cleaner install
asciilifeform: mine took <2wks on same
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's on an arch something
asciilifeform: so was i
danielpbarron: your pogo is fully synced?
asciilifeform: ah wait
asciilifeform: thinking of other box
asciilifeform: pogo was not.
asciilifeform still waking up...
danielpbarron: also this is with 2 gigs of swap killing the drive
danielpbarron: even with the swap, it occasionally crashes
danielpbarron: also: yay WoT poker!
asciilifeform again states for the record that the notion of running a proggy with unbounded memory consumption is a laugh
mircea_popescu: hopefully this alleviates with better pogo density on the network.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the time this was put in, the blockchain was mb not gb.
danielpbarron: it is totally possible to prevent collusion
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i know why it's there
danielpbarron: all the times i called into Micon's stupid podcast i was trying to get him to integrate the WoT
asciilifeform: but the notion of releasing such a thing now, is a laugh.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron micon suffers from the dk problem.
mircea_popescu: he means well, but he doesn't have the tools to examine himself with.
danielpbarron: i sent him a tweet reminding him you tried offering him a job last year; maybe this mess has snapped him out of it
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: The Seals release on the matter makes it seem he's clearly already decided on a course of action
asciilifeform dares to make the observation that more competent folks would turn out for these jobs if there was a possibility they might be able to live off such
danielpbarron: well he's saying that now; looks like face-saving
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i need that like i need more women that'd date me if i paid them a salary for it.
danielpbarron: a legit collusion free poker site would make a lot of money; seals wasn't dying for lack of players. they just all flocked to pokerstars play money where collusion was not profitable
assbot: Re: realistic but short and simple LISP examples? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5oQfV )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you feed'em dontcha
danielpbarron: people have actually been BUYING play chips that they cannot cash out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or do your pets get sent out to work day jobs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dating !=
mircea_popescu: early days of the republic are ALL ABOUT barriers to entry.
mircea_popescu: a decade later or w/e, the world can be as full of "i too could have been in" as it pleases, for all the good it'll do anyone.
mircea_popescu: "no you schmuck, you couldn't. as proven by ? didn't."
mircea_popescu: just like bitcoin works.
pete_dushenski: classic "i coulda been a contender"
mircea_popescu: classic.
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: we'll get wot poker eventually
pete_dushenski: if it takes me 5 years to learn how to code, by golly i'll do it
mircea_popescu: not a very good first project in any case.
pete_dushenski: a better one would be ... ?
danielpbarron: a working scoopbot :p
ben_vulpes: noshit
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: not a bad plan
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then when we start hiring, we hire slaves, like anyone hiring. and then the slave-born cry and whine that "oh look, bitcoin's no better".
mircea_popescu: well... not for them. nor should it be.
ben_vulpes returns to the rocket blueprints
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski no but he has a point. making an irc bot excellent coding exercise. i agree, good 1st time thing for intelligent person.
ben_vulpes: first, use a bot in whatever language
ben_vulpes: write your own bot client
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the idea had crossed my mind
assbot: Financial aid director at North Idaho College arrested for offering scholarships for sex @insidehighered ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5pvhy )
ben_vulpes: the curve is full of these oom steps up in complexity
danielpbarron: fwiw, i have actually coded things that worked before; I made my own minecraft plugin that used a database to keep track of credit/debt between players when they took items from chests / it broke when an update totally revamped the inventory control system and I abandoned it / also, it was java :/
mircea_popescu: who the fuck wants to go to college in north idaho.
mircea_popescu: that guy was probably doing them a favour, whoever they were.
BingoBoingo: Seriously
mircea_popescu: "The financial aid director at North Idaho College was arrested this month and fired for offering to trade scholarships for sex with a student. However, the student wasn't real.
mircea_popescu: Joseph Bekken was arrested and jailed on charged of attempted misuse of public funds, attempted procurement of prostitution, burglary, using a computer in a scheme to defraud and bribery."
BingoBoingo: Place is almost Canada
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: and you avoided letting it trap you
ben_vulpes: good job
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22651 @ 0.00040734 = 9.2267 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: i also coded a thing that would simulate players having to learn each other's language by speaking to each other to build up understanding; had the effect where a group of friends could talk in long sentences that strangers couldn't understand; strangers would have to talk in very short lines like "yes" "no" "here" in order to understand each other
mircea_popescu: wait. what ?!
danielpbarron: that part of it ended up being my favorite part; it worked very very well
mircea_popescu: "oh, i also built natural language ai"
thestringpuller: cazalla: yea. "jump starting game economy"
danielpbarron: it would scramble lines based on how many words you had already seen from that player
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron how did this work then ?
danielpbarron: i think i still have the code lying around somewhere; i'll try to find it
ben_vulpes: is anyone familiar with these white "ceramic" "nonstick" pans?
mircea_popescu: silverstone or something else ?
ben_vulpes: yeeeah.
ben_vulpes: shit's going to nuke my testes somehow, right?
mike_c: collusion-free poker is nice, but I think bots are more the problem.
mircea_popescu: it's been a decent replacement for teflon for a while now.
mike_c: most collusion isn't as profitable as one might think (if at all)
ben_vulpes: i don't trust it
mircea_popescu: mike_c you jus' sayin' or you actually thought about this ?
ben_vulpes: technology gets worse over time not better
danielpbarron: mike_c, bots == collusion
mike_c: i have thought. i have played a lot of poker in my time.
mike_c: no, bots and collusion are entirely separate
danielpbarron: uh.. how so?
mircea_popescu: well so if you play 1k hands for an average of 1k a hand and come out 7k ahead is it a good game or a bad game ?
mike_c: uh, it's a wash.
danielpbarron: if the bots aren't colluding then it's not an issue
mike_c: 7k on $1mm wagered?
mircea_popescu: if that's a wash...
mike_c: statistically insignificat
mircea_popescu: dude get out, 0.7% is exactly what you live off.
danielpbarron: i'll gladly play against non-colluding bots any day; a bot can't out-bluff a real person; the whole point in having bots is that they share info with each other
mike_c: over 1k hands you have no idea what your return is
mircea_popescu: i guess we go at this the other way then : we play poker, you see five + two cards, i see five + twelve cards.
mircea_popescu: we're even ?
mike_c: you have to put up much more money though
mike_c: when i lose, i lose 1x. you lose, you lose 6x
mircea_popescu: yeah, but i lose it to myself.
mike_c: you are paying 6x the blinds I am
mircea_popescu: to myself.
mike_c: to the winner
mike_c: (and the house)
mircea_popescu: who is going to be...
mircea_popescu: yes, i pay more rake. that's there but not really significant.
mike_c: hehe
mike_c: untrue. rake is brutal
dignork: mike_c: collusion is insignificat for a poker shop in financial means, it's a PR problem when discovered, and consequently the lose players/source of income.
mircea_popescu: you've been playing poker in north idaho with college admins it seems.
mike_c: right
mircea_popescu: rake on 1k hands is what, 300 bux ?
mike_c: Online? What limit?
mircea_popescu: just generally. poker hand is a commodity, like pork bellies.
mircea_popescu: goes four about 30 cents these days, more or less.
mike_c: Live rake is much higher than online.
mike_c: Live rake is $5/hand.
mircea_popescu: you're arguing anecdote against principle here.
mircea_popescu: live rake is not going to have 6 man collusion either, is it!
mike_c: No, I'm not. the profit margins both live and online are significantly affected by rake
mike_c: ok, so we're discussing online. where the profit margins and the rake are smaller
mircea_popescu: unless they were looking at making an offline site o.O
mike_c: anyhoo. Let me see if I can dig up some real stats.
BingoBoingo: Poker over numbers station
dignork: danielpbarron: most bots do not collude - they make more money on the long run by playing with fish on small stakes. But yes, theoretically they could collude. It's just they are more profitable when they are not.
danielpbarron: dignork, i don't see what the problem is with a bot that doesn't collude
nubbins`: re: cryptosporidium
nubbins`: this is one of the nicer pieces of kit i've picked up over years of outdoorsyness:
nubbins`: ;;google steripen
gribble: SteriPEN Water Purification | UV Water Purification: <http://www.steripen.com/>; Amazon.com : SteriPEN Traveler Portable, Handheld UV Water ...: <http://www.amazon.com/SteriPEN-Traveler-Portable-Handheld-Purifier/dp/B0041EB6EU>; SteriPEN Adventurer Opti Water Purifier - REI.com: <http://www.rei.com/product/799003/steripen-adventurer-opti-water-purifier>
mike_c: Pokerstars has $3 cap at common no-limit games
danielpbarron: if someone's in the WoT and they want a bot to play for them, I say go for it
dignork: danielpbarron: me either, but most players assume that bots are evil, hence all this bot-hunting madness
mike_c: figure 80 hands/hour, avg $1 cap, 6 players at table (5 colluding)
mike_c: ;;calc 80*5/6
gribble: 66.6666666667
mike_c: colluders are paying $66 an hour to play at a $1/$2 no-limit game
mircea_popescu: why "avg" ? you always fill the table. why "80" ? bot plays all the tables. all of them.
mike_c: average because max rake isn't every hand
mike_c: 80 because that's a common number of hands per hour at online
mike_c: ... what?
nubbins`: alos, dat lenovo
nubbins`: *also
mircea_popescu: mike_c the.bot.fills.all.the.tables.
nubbins`: i taught my roomie about CAs yesterday using them as an example
mike_c: then who the fuck is it making money off of?
nubbins`: guy likes to learn
mircea_popescu: if you have 500 human players, you're running 500 tables, with a total of 3k "players"
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Don't worry Draper's been Indicted http://qntra.net/2015/02/the-superfish-funder-list/
assbot: The Superfish Funder List | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAGe3I )
nubbins`: sweet
dignork eagerly waits for the day when there will be a discovery on diddles bios on Lenovo
mike_c: Yeah, exactly. so we're talking about one table with me and 5 of your stupid bots colluding.
mike_c: to be clear, are you the site operator or just some other player running these bots?
mircea_popescu: this is like asking "who sent this bitcoin transaction"
mike_c: and also to be clear, i am talking about collusion, not bots.
nubbins`: i used to work for a national insurance company, every corporate machine was a lenovo
nubbins`: but they also didn't hash passwords, instead opting to store them in plain text
nubbins`: so... shrug.
mike_c: because my whole point was bots are the problem, not collusion.
mircea_popescu: mike_c collusion and bots are different topics. however, because collusion offers a small but systematic bonus, it's what makes bots always win. in the .5 to 1.5% range, depending.
mike_c: that is not what makes bots win. it simply gives bots a small bump over what their skill would be otherwise.
mircea_popescu: but if you want a statistical model, play with someone like this : three cards face up, two in the hole for you, two in the hole for them, a ten card window for them you can't see.
mircea_popescu: see if you ever win.
mircea_popescu: bots have no skill.
mike_c: for example, a bot will destroy you in headsup hold'em because it is now a solved problem.
mircea_popescu: hah. no it won't.
mike_c: yes, it will
mircea_popescu handgesture
mike_c: hand gesture my nuts. it's solved.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12449 @ 0.00040734 = 5.071 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: look, i saw the al\berta thing
mike_c: i saw it 15 years ago
danielpbarron: if you realize you are heads up against a bot, couldn't you use its algorithm against it?
mike_c: what's the emoticon for sticking a tongue out?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: gladly suck our cock if only we a) didn't bang hotties and b) validated their self-hottie delusions. << These are usually the girls who start false accusing despite being squelched.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8801 @ 0.00040088 = 3.5281 BTC [-]
mike_c: danielpbarron: no. that's what solved means.
mike_c: you going to beat a bot at tic-tac-toe because you know its algorithm?
danielpbarron: solved as in a mathematical proof?
danielpbarron: tic-tac-toe isn't poker
mike_c: and heads-up poker isn't 6 person poker.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron “We define a game to be essentially solved if a lifetime of play is unable to statistically differentiate it from being solved at 95% confidence,”
mike_c: you think you can beat it, there are machines in vegas where you can play against it for real money
mircea_popescu: why would i personally play against a machine ?!
mike_c: that was for danielpbarron
danielpbarron: for the sake of argument, say heads up is broken; no heads up!
mike_c: my point was collusion isn't what makes a bot win.
mike_c: a bot's winrate can be bumped up by collusion, but it is far from the biggest factor in its success or failure
mircea_popescu: mike_c a bot that knows the distribution tables really well has an edge. sure.
mike_c: but, this argument aside, the point of bringing it up - does your solution handle the bot problem?
mike_c: because that would be interesting.
mike_c: collusion is whatever
danielpbarron: all of this is a moot point anyway if the pre-requisite for playing is being in the WoT
mircea_popescu: mike_c also, they play limit headsup, which... nobody plays.
mike_c: no limit too
mircea_popescu: mike_c yes, it does.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.0004119 = 6.7964 BTC [+] {2}
mike_c: and why does nobody play no-limit headsup anymore? and limit? because of this.
nubbins`: if the pre-req for playing is being in the WoT, the games are gonna suck
mike_c: people love headsup, but nobody will play online anymore cuz bots.
danielpbarron: well now i feel like a dick for having recommended people play only heads up to prevent collusion
mike_c: obviously it's not b/c collusion
danielpbarron: nubbins`, uh.. what/? when I play face-to-face it's WoT poker
danielpbarron: i only play with people I know, or someone i trust knows
BingoBoingo: Anyways the problem with bots in poker is they don't respond appropriately when you are drinking and talking shit at the table
mike_c: hehe
mike_c: solvable problem. run 50 bots and pay somebody to sit and chat
mircea_popescu: also they don't have boobs.
mike_c: looks no different from the nuts who don't use bots and multi-table ridiculously
dignork: BingoBoingo: they don't, so you have one dude faking bot's responses for 10s of them.
danielpbarron: "if the pre-req for chatting on irc is being in the WoT, the chat is gonna suck"
mike_c: i don't know that wot solves it all. so we start neg-rating on suspicion of bot use?
BingoBoingo: dignork: Mind blown
dignork: mike_c: you don't have to neg-rate them, just abn them from poker site
danielpbarron: if you suspect someone is cheating, do you want to play with them?
mike_c: dignork: on what? suscpicions?
mike_c: danielpbarron: but this problem is solved by weekly home game. online poker is different.
mike_c: you are more meant to play with strangers
danielpbarron: i don't see how it's any ddifferent; i wish i could play online with my weekly poker buddies
mircea_popescu: you are "meant" ?
mike_c: so i'm playing with stranger, he runs good or makes a couple good bluffs, and so i negrate him?
danielpbarron: in fact we figured out a way with pokerstars home game
dignork: mike_c: yep, it's close to impossible to get a hard proof, but statistical violations are good enough, with a very small false positives.
mike_c: yeah "meant". otherwise it fails as business
mircea_popescu: i had no idea you were so teleological.
mike_c: dignork: over the long long long term only.
BingoBoingo: !up mats
nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> "if the pre-req for chatting on irc is being in the WoT, the chat is gonna suck" <<< *cough*
dignork: mike_c: well, define "long". 100 hands? 200?
mike_c: no, that's the problem. more like 1mm.
danielpbarron: mike_c, you don't play with strangers, unless they are vouched for by someone you know
mike_c: idk, i am unconvinced. of course, we are assuming the solution here which mp hasn't specified.
danielpbarron: my recommendation to Micon wasn't even to bar access based on WoT, but to just give players option to link to WoT identity so that I can make the determination myself
mircea_popescu: !up bitspill
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56650 @ 0.00041367 = 23.4344 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: and tournaments could have something like assbot to limit who can join
mike_c: mircea_popescu: not teleology, I just don't see how a poker site gets enough traffic if the only problem it solves is "we'll host your weekly poker game".
danielpbarron: weekly can be daily when we don't have to drive miles to get to the game
mircea_popescu: i also don't see how email will ever get enough interest if the only problem it solves ios "we'll save you the 9.95 a plastic maibox costs"
mike_c: the sites already solve that. i know my friend's nicks and i can play with them if i want.
mircea_popescu: the problem with teleologists is that they misstate both the problem and the solution.
mike_c: so restate it.
mircea_popescu: well i intend to, depending how this dignork thing works out.
mike_c: ok, i'll reserve comment until then. and you're a teleologist.
mike_c: :P
danielpbarron: the reason the pokerstars homegame thing didn't work out so well is we could only do tournaments; there was no way to do cash games
danielpbarron: not that they don't have a cash game option, but it would let players rebuy without any accounting, which made linking to bitcoin impossible
danielpbarron: plus, if that ever took off i'm sure pokerstars would have killed it
danielpbarron: not a good idea to rely on someone else's thing
nubbins`: if there's one lesson bitcoin teaches people mercilessly...
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3MC2ZKW.txt )
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Any new lazerdude drama?
nubbins`: now it's mostly me just antagonizing TECSHARE
mats: BingoBoingo: you ever get any of my PMs?
BingoBoingo: mats not recently
assbot: The New White Flight - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAMKYg )
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> if there's one lesson bitcoin teaches people mercilessly... << exactly. "if you don;t know the owner, the thing doesn;t exist". exactly contrary to how the us currently works, all impersonal and "it's our policy" and bs.
mircea_popescu: soo... if i want some laser handcarved items that were cut out of a log with an axe by adrunk sailor
mircea_popescu: where do i go now ?
nubbins`: prolly shoot him a PM
nubbins`: i doubt he stopped checking the forum ;p
nubbins`: also FWIW
nubbins`: oh fuck hold on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14429 @ 0.00040088 = 5.7843 BTC [-]
nubbins`: ;;buy 1 "Collection of laser-cut wood items" @ 0 BTC PM for details
gribble: Order id 22024 created.
mircea_popescu: should have bought it for 0 hands
mircea_popescu: !up saifedean
saifedean: good evening, b/a
saifedean: it's february 2015 because i fixed it up just this week
mircea_popescu: aha. Preliminaiy version: do not quote without author permission. << ironically, only typo is in the warning
mircea_popescu: saifedean a particularly interesting metric, other than the 5.5bn eu / 6.5 bn us (which by now is more like 10 anyway), would be subsidy per joule.
mircea_popescu: that's one eyepopping statistic.
mircea_popescu: (in the case of ethanol in the us, include ALL agricultural subsidies, not just the direct for ethanol stuff)
BingoBoingo: !up saifedean
saifedean: in fact, if you think about it, you can't really even calculate a subsidy per joule, since the moronic process probably consumes more energy than it produces, so the more subsidies, the more joules are wasted!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23554 @ 0.00041519 = 9.7794 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: just in an administrative sense.
saifedean: if the thing could produce more joules than it consumes, it wouldn't need so much bezzle to keep it running
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-02-2015#1025966 << true pretty much in any context... they take our jobs!
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2015 16:07:02; dignork: danielpbarron: me either, but most players assume that bots are evil, hence all this bot-hunting madness
thestringpuller: scoopbot -fetch
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/02/the-dangers-of-bitcoin-trapping/
mircea_popescu: scoopbot seems to be working fine neh ?
danielpbarron: " speculation of the dangers of trapping " << url broken
danielpbarron: acutally it looks like all the urls are broken
thestringpuller: ah yes. danielpbarron it seems that way for the all the links
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo is fixing :D
BingoBoingo: SHould all be fxd nao
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: scoopbot does seem to be working fine...for nao ;)
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: well, for some blogs...
thestringpuller: i thought it worked for conravex?
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: "The overbearing regulatory climate in the US for exchanging fiat for Bitcoin seems to have similar consequences as its War on Drugs." << curious how you get here logically
danielpbarron: b-a isn't a cult.. it's a cartel!
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: these brokers could have a physical shop
pete_dushenski: with sekoority cameras and door buzzers or whatever
pete_dushenski: like a gun/pawn shop
pete_dushenski: there are (were?) in fact a few such operations in canada
pete_dushenski: meeting people on the street to sell things will always bear this risk, regs or no regs
pete_dushenski: you could be selling an ipad and have the same thing happen
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: i like it!
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski solid point.
pete_dushenski: the cost of business is borne either way
pete_dushenski: cost of overhead to insure against gunpoint robberies
pete_dushenski: or cost of the odd gunpoint robbery
pete_dushenski: cost of insurance depends on locale
mircea_popescu: i dunno man. that 11k the guy reported lost would have paid 1year rent + hardening measures.
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: danke BingoBoingo
pete_dushenski: type of people, cost of rent, cost of cams, etc
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: perhaps not in nyc, or at least not manhattan
assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 03:22:43; asciilifeform: nubbins`: what state's your beast in now << stuck on crafting the ramdisk (in-ram root fs) for netbsd. as of a week ago. haven't the time, presently, to do anything
ascii_field: danielpbarron: possibly
danielpbarron: is "in-ram" the eeprom thing?
ascii_field: danielpbarron: see if you are able to set up the cross-compile system (netbsd carries its own) on your box
danielpbarron: by my box, you mean my gentoo laptop?
danielpbarron: i'm downloading this right now -> ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1/source/sets/src.tgz
ascii_field: danielpbarron: at present time there is no support whatoever for the eeprom in netbsd. this means that it can be used, but only if the userland (yes, all of it) is baked into a ramdisk baked into the kernel (which in turn is loaded by uboot in one shot at powerup)
ascii_field: danielpbarron: the netbsd kernel and userland are sufficiently compact (vs linux) to make this a worthwhile exercise
danielpbarron: is this something i should be able to teach myself in a reasonable amount of time?
ascii_field: danielpbarron: you could find the bug in the netbsd ramdisk build script as well as i could
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: re: War on Drug << We can't buy Bitcoin without the help of Coinbase, or submitting to enemy's wishes, so alternative is to hit the streets. This is similar if not exact mentality of aspiring drug dealer wanting his own corner.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then when we start hiring, we hire slaves, like anyone hiring << simply wanted to point out that all of the #b-a projects (with possible exception of kakobrekla's work) are powered a hundred percent by the fiat economy's surplus - that is, free hours of various folks involved - and to some extent are at the mercy of their day job fortunes (see, e.g., the demise of moiety)
ascii_field: !up indiancandy1
danielpbarron: !up indiancandy1
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: you can't use bitstamp ? or bitcoin-otc ? or one of those schmancy atms ?
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: see the difference in mitigated risk between the overbearing nature of War on Drugs in state such a Virginia or Texas, vs say Colorado or Washington in regards to cannabis shops. Yes the risk involved in transit (large sums of money between shop and "bank", and transit of goods being guarded by ex military sekurity)
thestringpuller: but the difference in resulting violence is great
danielpbarron: well at least i'm in the fortunate position of getting my fiat stuff done in one heavy time period, leaving the rest of the year open
danielpbarron: i can see how draining this would be if my free time was limited to a couple hours nightly
ascii_field works under precisely this ^ constraint
danielpbarron: a travesty!
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: I personally use bitcoin-otc but that's only because I have trusted people to sell me coin. For someone on fringes of this footprint who needs local fulfillment this creates the risk of "trapping".
danielpbarron: people who aren't in the WoT should be concerned first with .. getting in the WoT
thestringpuller: i'm not saying people not in WoT danielpbarron
thestringpuller: i'm talking of people on fringes who aren't connected strong enough to make large trades at this point
thestringpuller: because the footprint is small
danielpbarron: they can't use escrow?
danielpbarron: idk how large of at trade you're talking about, but i did several deals worth several thousand dollars in otc through escrow agents
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: the cannabis example is irrelevant because of the precise physicality of the item
pete_dushenski: bitcoin suffers no such limitation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51370 @ 0.00040029 = 20.5629 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: transport is simplified, storage idem
pete_dushenski: not zero risk of course, just different
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: is this for digitized of physical fiat? i'm assuming former
pete_dushenski: i'm talking about btc now
assbot: Seals with Clubs, the first Bitcoin poker room, shuts down. Funds are still safe. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/19KBU5r )
thestringpuller: well how do you acquire btc with cash without phsyical presence?
fluffypony: already covered
fluffypony: how did I miss that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25530 @ 0.00039562 = 10.1002 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: i'm saying that a physical presence is simpler to manage for a digital asset than a physical one
pete_dushenski: so set up a shop
pete_dushenski: ape the gun sellers
thestringpuller: wait huh?
thestringpuller: yes the inventory for coin is simpler to manage but risk of gun in face is still apparent for anything valuable...
thestringpuller: setting up a shop is what cannabis shops have done and crime rate has gone down from relaxation of regulations
thestringpuller: i don't see how this point is irrelevant due to cannabis being a physical good and bitcoin being a digital good
pete_dushenski: it's basically the transportation to and from the shop, requiring "ex-military sekurity"
pete_dushenski: that's the difference
mircea_popescu: motherfucker this guy totally beat me to the punch reviewing kerouac.
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: Kerouac's On The Road: The 50th Anniversary Of A Book I Had Not Read ... ( http://bit.ly/19KDnsu )
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: either way, it's not illegal to sell btc, no special id required
thestringpuller: not for floridian who is in jail
danielpbarron: i don't get who would actually type in his password at gunpoint -- or, yet another reason to not do bitcoin from a smart phone
danielpbarron: while the mugger is at it he should get the victim to sign over deed to house and car
NewLiberty: The cop should be in the cell next to him
mircea_popescu: ascii_field> mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then << the general concept being that people will find themselves under so much pressure as the thing advances, that marginals (ie, people who depend on paychecks etc) are prolly in a very weak position to participate anyway.
mircea_popescu: how well this works in practice... well... nothing works well in practice.
PeterL: thestringpuller: first line of your article, s/a place where transactions/a place where transactions happen
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: ok, depends on the quantity and your ability to discern dood from secret agent man
ascii_field depends on paycheck
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: see PeterL search and replace
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski> thestringpuller: you can't use bitstamp ? or bitcoin-otc ? or one of those schmancy atms ? << it's bs, all of it. people can trade ~infinity btc/usd without any problems PROVIDED THEYRE IN THE WOT
mircea_popescu: and the people who aren't don't exist anyway.
ascii_field: ^ i can see reverse direction (btc to usd) being problematic. but usd to btc ?
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: yes so this is pretty much like drug dealing. or at least from my limited experience of "riding along" with drug dealers
mircea_popescu: neither's problematic really.
danielpbarron: in my extensive experience in that realm, WoT also applies
mircea_popescu: just, you know, "consumers have come to expect". and they will die with that "expectation".
pete_dushenski: least of all if you have a physical shop.
mircea_popescu: and pretend all along that "no alternatives exist"
mircea_popescu: because why bother, when you can just wail and wait for tit.
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: yes exactly! which goes to point mircea_popescu just brought up
thestringpuller: again I'm only talking about people on fringes of WoT
ascii_field: for folks who aren't subjects of us, try the mindfuck on for size: if a crate of benjamins were to drop from the sky into my yard, there is literally nothing game-changingly useful that i could do with them
ascii_field: they might as well be bricks of Pu
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: seems like this fringes thing is a fence-sitting
pete_dushenski: sort of shit or get off the pot
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: as is the nature of "becoming known" to a plug so you can re-up in the future.
danielpbarron: ascii_field, need to launder?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you're supposed to report it neh ?
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: "you don't know me yet, but lemme build some trust somehow"
danielpbarron: open up a car wash!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12884 @ 0.0003954 = 5.0943 BTC [-]
ascii_field: aha. the only thing the hypothetical crate would do is get me moved up a few spots in gassing queue if it got out
ascii_field: hence, no, definitely not equally problematic in both directions
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: then you're dealing with smaller amounts ?
pete_dushenski: and the risk of getting jacked for 11k should be zero
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the guy's 11k are NOT a crate of dollars. barely one brick.
ascii_field: crate - rhetorical illustration
mircea_popescu: your argument reduces to "i can't make a bottling plant out of a gallon of juice". sure.
mircea_popescu: there exist people, and not just in florida, who can get you a pellet of usd 100 notes on a half day notice.
mircea_popescu: for limited values of "you"
ascii_field: at the risk of repeating myself, my rent, for example, is ~2k/mo, and not under any circumstances payable in cash
ascii_field: or through anything other than an american bank
PeterL: ascii_field: you can take cash into grocery store, exchange for food, neh?
mircea_popescu: he doesn't eat.
mircea_popescu: except rw40, which he gets free
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is approximately correct
mircea_popescu: called in a radio show once, got lifetime supply.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you could buy gift certs.
mircea_popescu: that's what 99% of "otc businessmen" do anyway
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes. and this one of the very few reliable auto-tipoffs available to the gasenwagen
ascii_field: anyone who buys, say, $50k of gift cert cards in cash, is guaranteed to have some official scrutiny.
mircea_popescu: so pick up nomenklatura daughters, have them do it for you.
ascii_field: now we have human flesh in the loop
mircea_popescu: remember, any systematic weaponry can be turned around the operator.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: aren't there still political factors involved calling up senator to deliver shipping container of benjies to you?
mircea_popescu: their flesh.
ascii_field: frail flesh.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller not senator.
thestringpuller: not "jerome" either ;p
danielpbarron: oo speaking of which; if you want to knock someone offline for a spell, open up webchat to b-a from their ip :D
ascii_field 's spells don't work on flesh, only on iron
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you don't say lol.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field see, this is how i distinguish a genius geek from a simple geek : the latter programs computer to interact with him. the former, to interact with the girls.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ty mircea_popescu
ascii_field: interact with the girls ?
ascii_field: dildonics ?
mircea_popescu: no, like, get them to thing it's their bf.
ascii_field: 'eliza'
mircea_popescu: as opposed to "get me to think it's my gf"
mircea_popescu: sort-of.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: seems only way to avoid gasenwagen in this sense is to become BTC version of pablo escobar...
thestringpuller: and even he really didn't avoid it...
mircea_popescu: well in that sense, clintron "didn't avoid it"
mircea_popescu: or that schmucky someting awful kid, whatever his name was.
thestringpuller: hahaha...ok fair 'nuff
ascii_field: humans-in-the-loop is what -every single person nailed by usg so far- had in common.
mircea_popescu: Sean Smith "didn't avoid it'.
thestringpuller: ascii_field: so create a gang of robots?
ascii_field: not a guarantee of defeat, sure, but machines are exactly as 'loyal' as their operator is clever and conscientious - men are not.
mircea_popescu: "Here's one that even The Onion would reject as too blatantly ridiculous: American right-wing radio and TV clown Glenn Beck believes that Sean Smith aka Vile Rat, the EVE Online diplomat who was killed earlier this month during the attack on the US embassy in Benghazi, was actually a CIA agent, relaying communications to his fellow undercover agents at Something Awful."
mircea_popescu: the only thing that's blatantly ridiculous is that beck forgot to mention where he got it
thestringpuller: ascii_field: this very much reminds me of aku's mentality in Samurai Jack...
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the difference isn't there.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: which difference ?
mircea_popescu: " machines are exactly as 'loyal' as their operator is clever and conscientious - men are not."
ascii_field: a server doesn't have a family the enemy can take hostage
ascii_field: or unpaid debts
mircea_popescu: but it does run thompson's code.
ascii_field: not if you hand-carved it.
mircea_popescu: there are people who don't give a shit about some woman's spawn. more women, mopre spawn.
mircea_popescu: there aren't computers that don't depend on their compilers etc.
ascii_field: cheaper to knit the transistors than to build organization from scratch out of orphan bachelors
mircea_popescu: nothing in principle wrong with either approach, which was the point.
ascii_field: not so many warrior monks on the ground in modern world, afaik
ascii_field: wonder why not
mircea_popescu: not so many clean stacks, either.
mircea_popescu: the difference however ? one's nonzero ; the other 0.
mircea_popescu: ya see ?
mircea_popescu: and again : sean's dead. your argument is therefore invalid.
ascii_field looks up reference
thestringpuller: ascii_field: out of orphan bachelors << an organization of Batmans?
mircea_popescu: i never followed that franchise, but did batman have a vallet /
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: where does the dead usg sysadmin come in? somehow missing it
mircea_popescu: dead usg agent was killed by someone. by whom ?
ascii_field: employer
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i never followed that franchise, but did batman have a vallet / << He did indeed
mircea_popescu: eh get out.
ascii_field: who fed him to the locals
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did he ever end up kidnapped by evil man ?
BingoBoingo: The thing's got like 8 decades of history. Prolly happened several times.
mircea_popescu: batman no good then.
NewLiberty: A server has a storage eeprom that the enemy may already have hostage. http://securelist.com/files/2015/02/Equation_group_questions_and_answers.pdf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7576 @ 0.00039555 = 2.9967 BTC [+]
ascii_field head-desks
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, that's kind of the problem with literature by committee. At some point someone's going to make the thing suck.
assbot: Your Disk Controller and You | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/19KMNnO )
assbot: Bitcoin Crime Wave Breaks Out in NYC | | Observer ... ( http://bit.ly/19KMYQ9 )
NewLiberty: Yes, the "equation group" are just the ones that have been caught doing it.
ascii_field: 'equation group' == nsa
NewLiberty: I don't imagine that they are alone in that effort.
pete_dushenski annoyed that there's no cross-platform scrabble game that works between desktop and mobile w/o facefuck account
ascii_field: incidentally, one possible reason for k's use of the fictional name was to streamline the process of getting the c&c domains sinkholed
NewLiberty: They are not dumb.
ascii_field: picture this call to icann: them: 'who' k: 'nsa. please transfer domain to us'
ascii_field: constrained by dumb ~= dumb
BingoBoingo: !up SayWhaatNoow
ascii_field: (previous thread) if mircea_popescu seriously applied his criteria re: who is 'marginal', #b-a would likely be the #mircea_popescu-kakobrekla-jurov channel instead
ascii_field: ^ did i miss any other folks who live on atomic dirigibles and don't 'depend on paycheck'
NewLiberty: Also, plausible deniability for them to avoid making specific enemies. Presumably they like selling things and doing business in jurisdictions where assets can be seized by libelous claims.
ascii_field: NewLiberty: nothing to do with libel suites. notice that not one av vendor on the planet has yet fingered usg in the open. regardless of how obvious (e.g., 'stuxnet') the smoking guns.
ascii_field: because 'av vendors can have problems too'
ascii_field: *suits
NewLiberty: libel is the least of the concerns, but one that alone would be sufficient deterrance
ascii_field: think kaspersky gives a flying fuck re: lawsuits in u.s. courts ?
NewLiberty: Only if they sell anything anywhere for dollars
danielpbarron: i could probably get to a non-fiat point; no kids no car no morgage no wives
ascii_field: danielpbarron: lucky fella, must be 100% theorist. i, for one, couldn't even get any of my experimental supplies without using electric fiat
ascii_field: go and buy so much as a spool of 0805 resistors with btc.
ascii_field: (not even speaking of pcb assembly service, etc)
danielpbarron: couldn't i just pay a guy a premium to buy it for me?
ascii_field: what guy.
danielpbarron: idk, i got a weed guy; shouldn't i also have a fiat guy?
ascii_field: danielpbarron: got one you'd trust to buy 100k-usd of factory time ?
danielpbarron: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ty danielpbarron
ascii_field: danielpbarron: one you'd trust to have the goods physically protected in the necessary ways ?
danielpbarron: that is.. not outside the realm of possibility for me... not that i've made such an inquiry
ascii_field: this is not an easy problem if you're talking about something necessarily high-value and non-parcellable
ascii_field: what if your 'weed' could -only- be purchased in 100k-usd chunks ?
ascii_field: not saying that this is an impossible problem to solve
ascii_field: but that the intersection of folks who -have- the problem, and those able to solve it, is thus far zero
ascii_field: suggesting that the combination is 'not thermodynamically favoured' to borrow the chemists' expression
ascii_field: danielpbarron: that is.. not outside the realm of possibility for me... not that i've made such an inquiry << the odds are that after you were to make two or three such inquiries, you will come across a usg stoolie
ascii_field: with all the usual sequelae.
ascii_field: -that- is what it means to 'go outside wot'
danielpbarron: yeh you're right; but i could pay for simple food/rent from a strictly bitcoin income
NewLiberty: If there were more with the problem ic could be 'worth it' to you to solve it for yourself and others.
ascii_field: NewLiberty: that's precisely the observation i was making: there is no one who has found it worth his while to solve the problem for others
ascii_field: suggesting that there is a substantial '2) ?????' in the path to '3) profit!!11!!!'
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04W714C.txt )
ascii_field: and yes there are many folks in usa who run on cash
ascii_field: but i for one can more easily comprehend how to move to ar and learn to be a shoemaker or ocelot-walker or whatever, than turning into one of the above
ascii_field: ah and on the subject of gift cards, you can't buy them in usa without gov. id
ascii_field: can't pay rent with them, either
danielpbarron: well you can buy them but you can't activate them
BingoBoingo: I bough pnoHe and minutes cards for said without ID
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: try buying one for 100k
ascii_field: or even 10
NewLiberty: I almost became 'unbanked' this week. I've had >10 accounts terminated by banks this year. It seems with the latest guidance from the Fed, banks categorize 'precious metal dealers' in the same bin as 'arms traders' and 'ponzi operators'.
BingoBoingo: Eventually
ascii_field: the cash register won't 'ding' without a passkey from stalin
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: once you turn said pNohe on from your home, it may as well be registered to your face
ascii_field: it's one of those faux loopholes that's really a honeypot
BingoBoingo: That is problem
BingoBoingo: Stallman was right about those
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39600 @ 0.00039555 = 15.6638 BTC [+]
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: simple triangulation
ascii_field: no boobie trap needed
BingoBoingo: Right Same principal as Loran
BingoBoingo: !up felipelalli
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36424 @ 0.00039555 = 14.4075 BTC [+]
felipelalli: hi BingoBoingo!
felipelalli: why only you online today?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00039782 = 4.6943 BTC [+]
felipelalli: I have to back to work, have a nice end of day guys!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53402 @ 0.00041442 = 22.1309 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55548 @ 0.00041943 = 23.2985 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30550 @ 0.00042082 = 12.8561 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67440 @ 0.00039291 = 26.4979 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35951 @ 0.00039076 = 14.0482 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34582 @ 0.00038215 = 13.2155 BTC [-] {3}
Adlai: "I have to get back to work, have a nice end of days!" - Jesus 2.0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15518 @ 0.0003804 = 5.903 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63224 @ 0.00037808 = 23.9037 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3315 @ 0.00039076 = 1.2954 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100858 @ 0.00037728 = 38.0517 BTC [-] {4}
joecool: ddos guy still hang around here?
Adlai: "he who smelt it, dealt it"
TheNewDeal: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 243.75, Best ask: 244.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 244.0, 24 hour volume: 10233.82057294, 24 hour low: 239.13, 24 hour high: 249.32, 24 hour vwap: 244.603229345
thestringpuller: ;;seen The20YearIRCloud
gribble: The20YearIRCloud was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 10 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 58 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <The20YearIRCloud> Big thing has been to have em look over all the financial documents as we're filing taxes for 2014 next month and I didn't want to submit till they had a good idea of it.
mike_c: he switched to slack. it's irc from silicon valley.
mike_c: !up The20YearIRCloud
The20YearIRCloud: I check in once in a while here and still idle on a few IRC chats, granted I guess slack does a IRC connection as well
mike_c: how's business? stock price seems to be rising.
mike_c: !t h rent
assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
The20YearIRCloud: Business is good, just have one vacancy on a house we just finished, other than that things seem to be doing well
The20YearIRCloud: Last price was .0117 or so
mike_c: about double from ipo. not too shabby.
mike_c: not quite as good as fiat, but what can you do :)
The20YearIRCloud: We're hovering around the $3/share area
The20YearIRCloud: The big thing was working through the bankrupt shareholder(s) that were forced to liquidate, it took seemingly forever to work through them
mike_c: hah, interesting. sounds like a pain.
The20YearIRCloud: It was, court gave one of our largest shareholders a few months to sell all his stock which led to the price being in a slump for quite some time, now it's all worked through and the price can at least have a chance to rise
The20YearIRCloud: Plus the banks are slowly catching on to our plans
mike_c: wait, were RENT shares actually mentioned in the court proceedings? or just a general order.
The20YearIRCloud: I was told they were
mike_c: heh. that must have been interesting for the court. "see, i have units in a fund of this panamaian company that has shares in this other company"
mike_c: have you given any further thought to unwinding from havelock?
The20YearIRCloud: Definately
The20YearIRCloud: especially with this new down time, the problem is what to do to give investors liquidity
The20YearIRCloud: Just about, granted I think what happens is they require personal financial statements from a person during the proceeding, and he declared ~$40k worth of stock
Adlai: A popular story is told about Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965) when he was running for president in 1952 (or in 1956). Someone heard Stevenson’s impressive speech and said, “Every thinking person in America will be voting for you.” Stevenson replied, “I’m afraid that won’t do—I need a majority.”
assbot: Stevenson family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/19LJjl1 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75758 @ 0.00037347 = 28.2933 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00037961 = 13.59 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80700 @ 0.00038386 = 30.9775 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ascii_field howdja mean ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field> what guy << guys!
dignork: !up wawert
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: ascii_field> but that the intersection of folks who -have- the problem, and those able to solve it, is thus far zero << this is merely an artefact of your own perspective, is my story an' im stickig to it.
ascii_field: point was trying to make was that mass economics (e.g. weed) are not applicable to ultra-niche affair where there are maybe three people in a continent who can even begin to attempt $task
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> it's one of those faux loopholes that's really a honeypot << so turn it on at obama's girlfriend's house.
ascii_field: lol, why not brezhnev's girlfriend's house
mircea_popescu: exactly.
ascii_field: quod licet iovi... etc
mircea_popescu: and srsly, 100mn is niche-y, 100k not so.
mircea_popescu: "Bitcoin, the technology that’s meant to revolutionize the way we think of money, is simultaneously revolutionizing the way we get mugged."
mircea_popescu: lol great story bro, except... "gimme your valuables". what's so revolutionary there ?
dignork: mircea_popescu: wawert is the guy I mentioned to you earlier
danielpbarron: !up hdbuck
mircea_popescu: dignork ^
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 22(Y):78(N) by coin, 23(Y):77(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.60099479 BTC. Current weight: 95,091.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you teh girl ?
ascii_field: lol no. pet does not touch the console
ascii_field: but there are some automatics.
mircea_popescu: alf has finally divided
cazalla: scoopbot -fetch
assbot: Midlothian, IL Police Department Pays Bitcoin Ransom | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1w6VcfG )
mircea_popescu: another one ?
ascii_field: re: earlier thread: somewhat reminiscent of the 'sling dope' thread on mircea_popescu's www
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i wonder just how much the cops would be willing to pay if ransomware maker crafted it specifically for gov depts and not at home users
ascii_field: in that yes, one skilled in meatspace 'humint' can safely do a 100k trade
mircea_popescu: people work as tellers in pond shops for minimum wage. there's no big deal humint involved.
jurov: http://www.honeyflow.com/ such bezzle. poor bees. wow.
assbot: Honey On Tap From Your Own Beehive - Flow™ Hive Home ... ( http://bit.ly/17khL4I )
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: gotta be born to it
mircea_popescu: bulletproof glass and steel rollers are 10s an 100s
ascii_field: pond shop ?
mircea_popescu: yes. and bookies and what have you. ever seen snatch ?
cazalla: jurov, bad idea?
ascii_field: and picture what happens if someone who grew up with virtually no social skills were to attempt to find a way into world of 'snatch' (much less actually work there)
ascii_field: this is 99% of how usg collects its 'death ray plotters'
ascii_field: 'hey kid, wanna join the terroristz?'
jurov: cazalla not saying it's a bad idea. just "such a bezzle!" came to mind
ascii_field: 'sure, finally i found where to apply!'
cazalla: jurov, and i don't mean your use of it as a metaphor but the thing itself has me interested
mircea_popescu: ascii_field "apply" ?!
mircea_popescu: but i didn't mean "the world" per se. i just mean, idiots try to rob a bookie, goes nowhere. why not ?
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1108/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 19.93457636 BTC. Current weight: 44,198.
mircea_popescu: fiddy bucks worth of countermeasures.
cazalla: ah shit, it's useless for using with australian bees
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the countermeasures aren't usually something a clever person can learn from reading books
ascii_field: they involve being part of a social network (in the old meatspace sense)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field really ?! a sane person can learn them by... going there.
ascii_field: going where?
jurov: lmao "How do I stop the bees getting to the honey while it’s draining out of the Flow™ hive?"
mircea_popescu: to any functioning suchshop. "o wow, they have really thick glass and they make me put the stuff in that roller thing"
ascii_field looks for 'washington dc black market but not the usg stoolies' phone book
mircea_popescu: go to buy "really thick glass" , "you mean bulletproof ?" "yuah that's ti!"
mircea_popescu: learned.
ascii_field: we don't have legal bookies here
mircea_popescu: pond shops /
ascii_field: pawn ?
mircea_popescu: why the fuck i keep saying pond jesus im tired.
NewLiberty: mor polycarbonite (lexan) than glass
ascii_field: yes they exist here. regulated as tightly as gun shops (in fact, the two are often combined into one establishment)
mircea_popescu: so does it consist of guy making incalls like a fucking hooker ?!
ascii_field: neh they look like normal junk stores
ascii_field: except that everything inside is priced to avoid ever selling
ascii_field: ($1000+ 'pentium 3', etc)
ascii_field: the idea, as i understand, is that price is slowly lowered (as debt carries on) until the thing is gone
NewLiberty: hookers and hockers are different, but you can get screwed with both
ascii_field: the pawn shops we have here are more or less the farthest thing from the actual healthy black market (which is, i'm told, vast, but a n00b has no way whatsoever to safely connect to it, which was my original point)
ascii_field: there is a reason why 'silk road' etc were fantastically popular
NewLiberty: They give secured loans with the arbitrary stuff of value as collateral. When the borrower doesn't pay the stuff is sold.
ascii_field: i can only speak for myself, but -no one in my meatspace wot- is any kind of route whatsoever into that world
ascii_field: so i couldn't go there for any amount of money
NewLiberty: I know folks that run some.
ascii_field: not without having the first or second marketeer i'd run into be a usg stooge set up for precisely this kind of harvesting
ascii_field: fortunately i don't need it for anything
jurov: well...van you loan from pawn shop against bitcoins?
ascii_field: but if i did, i'd be fucked.
jurov: *can you
ascii_field: jurov: not in usa!
ascii_field: i mean, you could talk to some arbitrary pawn shop fella about it, but if he fucks you - you will have no recourse
ascii_field: you just dealt with a stranger outside of any wot.
jurov: why? they can't get MSC-registered?
jurov: and how is he going to fuck you?
assbot: Car Title Loans and Auto Pawn at Car Cash Loans ... ( http://bit.ly/17kiYcp )
ascii_field: jurov: very funny
jurov: bank can fuck you too, what's the diff?
ascii_field: bank follows well-understood rituals for fucking you
mats: jurov: dunno why the page is down. bright side, the content of those links are easily google-able
ascii_field: which you are generally familiar with when you walk in
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00038147 = 6.8283 BTC [-]
ascii_field: what's the diff << if you mention bitcoin in a pawn shop here, and aren't thrown out as a nut, you're dealing with -an individual- rather than an institution under any kind of legal constraint
ascii_field: and he isn't in your wot
ascii_field: (if you have someone appropriate in your meatspace wot, why would you be going to a pawn shop ?_
NewLiberty: It sounds like a good business idea though. Send your bitcoin to bitcoinpawn, get some fiat loan with it as collateral. Pay back the fiat with interest to reclaim your bitcoins. Miss a payment and you have to buy them back at the retail price.
ascii_field: NewLiberty: guaranteed jail if found
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the problem you espouse is entirely of your own imagination.
mircea_popescu: how do you suppose "those people" got dates ?
NewLiberty: Under what law is this offending?
NewLiberty: It is done with gold rings, etc
ascii_field: NewLiberty: under the book-length morass of regulations pertaining to pawn shops where i live
NewLiberty: Sure, the presumption is that you do it as a pawn shop.
ascii_field: but to be fair i thought we were still speaking of btc-for-100kusd-spent-elsewhere trick
NewLiberty: This is not hard
danielpbarron: i gave my bank manager a "paper wallet" one time; they think i'm some crazy, but mostly harmless, coin collector
ascii_field: the basic problem that remains unsolved is -what to do with the usd-
ascii_field: granted, i am possibly the only one here who understands why this can be an insurmountable problem
danielpbarron understands that most of the things worth buying are heavily watched and regulated in the USSA
danielpbarron: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ty danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: this is getting to gnarled up to be approached. i'm out.
ascii_field: basic summary, for those remaining,
jurov: i was thinking you just need to prove where you got the dough
ascii_field: jurov: and pay extortionate tax
ascii_field: and risk being billed again and again for other imagined tax liabilities
danielpbarron: haven't mobsters been dealing with this problem since.. always?
ascii_field: and go on a list of folks with 'funny' income
ascii_field: danielpbarron: yes! they have. by being part of social networks that are empire-in-empire
ascii_field: danielpbarron: but a random person off the street cannot enter that world simply by asking.
NewLiberty: ^^ yes, my friend that does this has household expenses >US$50K per month. Not your average person on the street.
NewLiberty: Also a lawyer, and owns law firms full of folks to keep him out of problems.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10433 @ 0.00038147 = 3.9799 BTC [-]
mod6: ;;ticker
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16952 @ 0.00038147 = 6.4667 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 245.58, Best ask: 245.9, Bid-ask spread: 0.32000, Last trade: 244.9, 24 hour volume: 9358.73386673, 24 hour low: 239.41, 24 hour high: 249.32, 24 hour vwap: 244.90114208
mod6: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00037076 / 0.00040233 / 0.00042832 (3558254 shares, 1,431.63 BTC), 7D: 0.00035551 / 0.0004173 / 0.00047394 (16948394 shares, 7,072.69 BTC), 30D: 0.00030001 / 0.0004018 / 0.00053193 (83261553 shares, 33,454.75 BTC)
thestringpuller: [A[A[A[A[A[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B[B
thestringpuller: sorry about that ^^^
thestringpuller: shity connection
mike_c: !t h rent
assbot: It's so strange that you don't remember any of your poetry.
mike_c: did i miss something? is havelock dead?
mod6: website looks down (for me)
mike_c: seems they've been having a lot of trouble lately
assbot: Latest posts of: havelock ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzpruR )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7915 @ 0.00038147 = 3.0193 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125185 @ 0.00038376 = 48.041 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> danielpbarron: but a random person off the street cannot enter that world simply by asking. << you know this is actually a great idea for a movie.
mircea_popescu: korean computer wiz kid gets into ny crime family. by asking.
mircea_popescu: NOT one of the daughers in marriage tho.,
mircea_popescu: <NewLiberty> ^^ yes, my friend that does this has household expenses >US$50K per month. << that's a decent dozen o' slavegirls.
asciilifeform does a bit of mental arithmetic
asciilifeform: slave gurlz suffer from inverse economy of scale ?
assbot: AMHash1: Cost-Effective Mining Contract ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5WYIJ )
mircea_popescu: it's a fuckin disease.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: you may be interested in learning that i've a bit of time just now and am experimenting with a port of linux nand driver for marvell to netbsd
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform depends. if you're the homebody sort, keep 2-3 girls, marked economy of scale.
mircea_popescu: if you're the roller type, keep numerous, market scaling of power.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i'm not paying 4+k for 1...
asciilifeform: not even 400
mircea_popescu: some women you don't care if they spend 10k a month, because they create 1mn of value or w/e.
asciilifeform: 10k << lol! on what?!
asciilifeform: spectrometer ?
mircea_popescu: entertaining ?
mircea_popescu: 10k in the hands of a judicious woman can readily beat 1mn in lobby funds.
asciilifeform: aha so 10k industrial.
mircea_popescu: that's thje idea. if you're the sort that keeps 2-3 chicks off the street, micromanage their day, you save on the electricity bill.
mircea_popescu: if you're the sort that he was describing, you don't care so much what it costs, you care what it gets you.
mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash"
mircea_popescu: sorta thing.
asciilifeform does not live on that planet, has never visited, but believes the story
mircea_popescu: there's very little competent, dedicated woman can't achieve in loser society
mircea_popescu: (ie, the "civilised world")
mircea_popescu: there is that small inconvenience of how they're insistently trained not to, but nothing major.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gotta appreciate that this is about as real to me as a $500M synchrophasotron. i.e., i get the basic principle involved, but have never seen with own eyes nor know in person anyone who has
mircea_popescu: you did see with own eyes, yes. one sec
asciilifeform guesses where
mircea_popescu: !up bitponzi
asciilifeform: plastic woman ?
mircea_popescu: what do you think she does for a living ?
asciilifeform: or is that grease
asciilifeform: pr0n star ?
asciilifeform looks up what k. was again
mircea_popescu: when you find out let me know too lol.
mircea_popescu: same thing that dumb old bitch in florida was doing. the "nonorary assbassador"
mircea_popescu: ancient story, this. what was zsa zsa gabor ?
mircea_popescu: "famous star, never played in a film"
mircea_popescu: bitponzi you're from argentina then ?
punkman: oh she's still alive, 98 years old
BingoBoingo: Kim was in the one porno
punkman: "When asked, "How many husbands have you had?", she was quoted as responding, "You mean other than my own?""
mircea_popescu: yeah, you gotta be in one. tits or gtfo is the rule.
decimation: NewLiberty: Under what law is this [pawn btc trade] offending?<< specifically, finra has declared that anyone who would conduct such a transaction to be a 'money transmitter' and thus would need to register with finra and the local state authorities in charge of such matters
decimation: I suspect most (all) pawn shops do not have such notes from stalin
decimation: heh was bagels giving the middle finger to mr. ddos?
danielpbarron: i think so
danielpbarron: i typed ./build.sh -U -u -m evbarm build before i started making dinner; come back and it's still going
mircea_popescu: http://princegermany.com/ << this is kinda lulzy btw
assbot: PRINCEGERMANY.COM ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZjetd )
mircea_popescu: (the guy fatass kim is trying to immitate, basically. paid $$ to be adopted by some ex german prince)
mircea_popescu: (gabor's last husband)
danielpbarron: there is a book named "The Happiest People on Earth" that might help explain how something like kim kardashian came to be
mircea_popescu: as in, a really hawt turkic chick ?
danielpbarron: There's also some Old Testament flavour: a prophecy prompts Shakarian's grandfather to leave Armenia for the west coast of the USA, where his son Isaac becomes an exceptionally prosperous farmer. Overlaying this is a mysterious story which even the authors call a "romance" - a tale of an illiterate Armenian prophet who received a secret message which remains sealed in an envelope until the right person comes along to open it
danielpbarron: some cult members in texas showed me this book; not sure how true it actually is
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: the tools (gcc and binutils) take a while
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: but kernel doesn't
decimation: !up fuddos
fuddos: there are a few ntp reflections
danielpbarron: yeah i did the kernel already
mircea_popescu: !up fuddos
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, which step didn't work for you?
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: it isn't one of the steps at all
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: there is no built-in means of making small ramdisks
asciilifeform: and the method described in available literature doesn't work
fuddos: gonna try again
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 22:36:45; asciilifeform: let's do a 'trichotomy' on the netbsd thing. as far as i can see, there are three and only three possibilities in a case like this (i am deliberately not including the forth, of my being a muppet.) 1) whole orchestra -never- worked 2) once worked, but a sniveling shitgnome fucked with the docs 3) docs were once correct and described a working sys, but a sniveling shitgnome changed the code 'because pr
danielpbarron: did anyone else notice that the .bitcoin datadir recently became too large to tar -czf ? or is it just me?
decimation: !up fuddos
punkman: mircea_popescu: (the guy fatass kim is trying to immitate, basically. paid $$ to be adopted by some ex german prince) << lol! Prince Frederic (Gabor's current husband) paid some old lady to adopt him too, rest of family doesn't recognize him.
fuddos: It looks like amazon blocks at least some of the ntp udp spam
fuddos: and it appears to block nearly all of the upnp spam
mircea_popescu: it's really not hard to block. but domestic isps = blockheads.
punkman: this illegitimate princehood is gonna end up living longer than the real thing isn't it? every derp will adopt another derp and so on
mircea_popescu: punkman if i cared i'd point out that i went through the guy's chicks pics, nothing impressing in there. if asciilifeform were emotionally involved in the markus prince he'd say that's obviously because he's keeping the good photos secret.
mircea_popescu: you can't be a german prince anyway, their socialistoid government transformed them into names.
mircea_popescu: for 50 bucks you can go to vegas and change your name to Prince Pizda or w/e.
decimation: you might have a fancy name
punkman: "Prinz von Anhalt has adopted several men" oh he's made a business of it
decimation: it seems that if you claimed to be a german prince today you would have a mob of kids appear. They would loudly explain why they aren't going to have sex with you, play golf against you, and then exhibit hate for you in the form of a interpretive dance
mircea_popescu: lol pretty much
fuddos: it looks like the ddos bot spams on 1 minute intervals
assbot: Fizz-daca nu fizz atunci cine? - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1vQL84F )
fuddos: sorry I had ntp running, disregard the earlier statement
mircea_popescu: "On 25 July 2007, Prinz von Anhalt was allegedly approached by three women he described as attractive while sitting in his Rolls-Royce in Southern California. They asked him to pose for pictures with them, at which point one of the women robbed him at gunpoint, taking his car keys, jewelry, wallet, driver's license and all his clothes. According to Prinz von Anhalt, his assailants bound him and placed him in handcuffs,
mircea_popescu: yet he managed to call the authorities on a cellular phone. Los Angeles police found him completely naked approximately one hour later. No handcuffs were found at the scene. The culprits apparently drove away in a Chrysler convertible."
mircea_popescu: On 20 October 2010 von Anhalt was taken to the hospital after swallowing a bee, which then stung him in the throat. On 22 December 2010 von Anhalt was rushed to the hospital after gluing his eye shut with nail glue.
mircea_popescu: this guy should be in finance.
danielpbarron: neato, build finished
danielpbarron: the guide i'm using is not correct, but i got it anyway
asciilifeform: build << of what ?
danielpbarron: the userland
danielpbarron: not the ramdisk
asciilifeform: userland - easy
danielpbarron: well it's still exciting for me when an hours long compile succeeds
decimation: !up fuddos
fuddos: sorry for the connect spam. It looks like the ddos bot is either inactive, amazon filters, or it filters amazon
jurov: http://hpmor.com/chapter/108 geee. so apparently voldemort became voldemort...to kill out idiots!
assbot: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 108: The Truth, Pt 5, Answers and Riddles ... ( http://bit.ly/1z64djP )
asciilifeform was waiting for that thing to pop up here
asciilifeform: we did discuss the author on at least one occasion
asciilifeform has him mentally -10 wot for many, many years now
jurov: yea i remember that well
decimation: asciilifeform: rowling?
asciilifeform: it's a riff
asciilifeform: on the original
asciilifeform: (which i also never got around to reading)
decimation: is this better or worse than the 'riff' featuring the woodchipper?
asciilifeform: based very loosely
decimation: I read most of the books. my conclusion is that rowling got 'lucky'
asciilifeform: anyway 'methods of rationality' is by a fella called yudkowsky
asciilifeform: (whozzat? see log.)
decimation: lol yudkowsky wrote a harry potter fan book
asciilifeform: possibly his best known work.
asciilifeform: by a very long shot
decimation learns a fact about silly-con valley, only to find it is even *more* true than he thought
punkman: chapter 108? last time I looked at it was like 50
danielpbarron: i made a rootfs_ramdisk.img but i'm pretty sure it isn't ready due to some confusion over what needs to be done with /dev/ and also there were other files mentioned in the guide that i could not find in my result
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: you're very nearly at the part that catastrophically fails
jurov: !up arvicco
danielpbarron: mdsetimage: could not find symbols in netbsd
asciilifeform: ding ding ding
asciilifeform: there we go
danielpbarron: well that elimates possibility number 4, and introduced number 5 (that we are in cahoots)
assbot: The Lack of Gentle Platonic Touch in Men's Lives is a Killer - ... ( http://bit.ly/1z66204 )
trinque: #touchislife
trinque: sounds like that guy needs a professional cuddler http://cuddleuptome.com/
assbot: Cuddle Up To Me ... ( http://bit.ly/1DHVb2m )
assbot: Unusual Bugs ... ( http://bit.ly/1DHWoGZ )
assbot: Britain cannot defend itself against Putin's military might, top brass warn - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1z67UGb )
decimation: doh "As two RAF Typhoon fighters were scrambled on Wednesday evening to escort Russian long range bombers flying off Cornwall, military chiefs said that the UK “could not cope” with an all-out attack as our defences have been “decimated”. "
assbot: Times publisher, News UK, launches internal investigation after suicides of two members of its commercial staff - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1z684NE )
decimation: maybe it's depressing - working in london
assbot: Putin verärgert - EU droht mit Sanktionen ... ( http://bit.ly/1z68nIx )
decimation: "„Es wird diesem Land nicht einfach gemacht, seinen Weg in Freiheit und Selbstbestimmtheit zu finden.“ Der Prozess bleibe schwierig." < It is not easy for this country [ukraine] to find its way to freedom and self determination" [Merkel] said
decimation: apparently she's starting to equivocate...
mircea_popescu: <decimation> doh "As two RAF Typhoon <<< news to exactly no-one
asciilifeform: 'airstrip one'
asciilifeform: it's just for usaf to land & refuel on
decimation: not least to the russians
mircea_popescu: and london sucks in a way that can't be described.
asciilifeform: london sucked in 1700
mircea_popescu: nothing changed.
decimation: the russians apparently toy with the yuropeans like a kitty toys with a fish
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unfortunately, the us response in ukr is proportionately larger than the us response would be in england, for the sameactivity.
decimation: each one of those tu-95's can carry cruise missiles that can individually fly 600 km, so these missions are merely propaganda runs
mircea_popescu: us is like the sniper : has one good shot. if he misses that one, or if you get in range... dead.
asciilifeform: against defenseless folks, sniper has as many shots as are in his horn
mircea_popescu: not the case here.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, the horn holds pretty much a shot. for the other, ru actually has air superiority since about 2013.
decimation: well, it remains to be seen what the tu-95's would do if they were 'fired in anger'
asciilifeform: wake me up when ru has not-running-winblows superiority
decimation: they would probably not derp around in enemy airspace
mircea_popescu: arbitrary fence is arbitrary.
decimation: I seriously doubt the us would be unable to defend its airspace
decimation: but it is probably also the case that ru could inflict serious damage
mircea_popescu: "defend its airspace" is irrelevant here. the us is unable to project.
mircea_popescu: anyone can defend, these days, because of rocketry.
mircea_popescu: and there's nothing wrong with that.
decimation: agreed, that's another matter
mircea_popescu: heck, even the ukrs can defend their airspace from commercial airliners
decimation: actually usg has also tacitly admitted that its submarines are becoming useless http://nationalinterest.org/feature/are-submarines-about-become-obsolete-12253
assbot: Are Submarines About to Become Obsolete? | The National Interest ... ( http://bit.ly/1z68UKz )
mats: i find that dubious
mircea_popescu: well, it makes little sense to keep a nuclear sub and a carrier these days
mircea_popescu: as they do essentially the same things.
mircea_popescu: face the same risk profiles etc.
mats: i imagine its easier to defend a sub rather than a carrier
decimation: mats: you are probably right on that one
asciilifeform: a bit hard to take off a jet from sub
decimation: the paper in question seems to imply it's mainly a matter of what happens when the sub gets too close to shore
mircea_popescu: mats why ?
decimation: asciilifeform: "A new approach to offensive undersea operations. Manned submarines will likely need to shift from being front-line tactical platforms like aircraft to being host and coordination platforms like aircraft carriers. "
mats: well for one thing a carrier is vulnerable on all axes
mircea_popescu: mats so is the sub.
mats: sub can crawl sea floor and reduce attack surface
mircea_popescu: actually floor is very dangerous with the new seeking missiles
mircea_popescu: because it reflects the wave / crushes
decimation: asciilifeform: on page 14 of the linked pdf you can see a picture of sub 'taking off' uav
mats: name?
mircea_popescu: i dun have a name.
asciilifeform: they launched biplanes and even triplanes from subs
mats: ill investigate later then
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's just that the advantages of subs (quietness, depth) are less and less valuable
mircea_popescu: and once they can't actually work tactically anymore, they're basically a smaller submersible carrier.
decimation: "Emerging non-acoustic detection techniques also show great promise. The theoretical possibilities of detecting minute changes on the ocean’s surface caused by a submarine or the wake it leaves underwater have been widely recognized since the Cold War, but only now have processing power and oceanographic modeling improved to the point where these approaches may be operationally feasible. Methods to detect radiation or chemicals
decimation: emitted by a submarine also date from the Cold War and may benefit from the improved sensitivity “big data” could provide."
mats: sounds like a good scam
mircea_popescu: mats it becomes insanely more expensive to quiet them down as time passes.
mats: i see your point, but im not convinced the detection technology is there yet
decimation: " New ASW technologies and improve- ments to non-nuclear undersea platforms, however, will likely enable adversaries to comple- ment their surface and air A2/AD networks with undersea surveillance and attack systems. These may not have the reach of anti-ship ballistic missiles or modern surface-to-air missiles, but they have the potential to make the undersea littorals of a potential adversary an increas- ingly denied zone. "
mats: i hope they called james cameron
mircea_popescu: well, whether it's here yet or not... things still evolve one way. all i said was re this direction.
mircea_popescu: decimation basically they're really desperate to maintain as much projection into future budgets, but in point of fact... maintaining both a carrier and a nuclear powered sub programme isn't likely.
decimation: mats, this paper is not some random derp, it's a highly connected dod think tank
asciilifeform: how many nuke subs left in usa? and how many janitors who haven't torched theirs yet
mircea_popescu: like 16 ?
asciilifeform: 1 down, ? to go
mircea_popescu: anyway, it will be the lol of all time if the carrier-sub joint at the seams frankenstein resembles anything the fighter-bomber-helicopter-drone f35 attempt.
mircea_popescu: "costs an infinity, delivers paperwork"
asciilifeform: in j. sladek's 'tik tok', sf novel in '83, in the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built
decimation: well, the bigger picture is that usg is not going to be able to threaten russia or china as much as it used to
mats: maybe the sea drones will fail less than the airborne models
asciilifeform: as a mega-apocalyptic culmination of usg military wankery
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indeed.
assbot: AA. Bibliography - Secure Coding - CERT Secure Coding Standards ... ( http://bit.ly/18aEHob )
asciilifeform: mats: i have that book
asciilifeform: (seacord)
mats: im reading the papers in preparation for the book
mats: taking me ages i might add
thestringpuller: falling asleep at a computer is one of the most amazing feelings ever
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
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